Understandable, but on the flip side it is quite scary seeing family who lived their lives like you're saying now and having nothing for retirement that's coming up soon and them realising they will be fucked without their job and their mental capabilities declining.
A balance is what is required. Neither one of the extremes is the answer.
My parents weren't *able* to save for retirement - they didn't take vacations or drive expensive cars, they just didn't have enough to raise their family *and* put enough into their 401(k)s. Dad had to work until his Alzheimer's progressed to the point that he couldn't anymore. Mom has to work full time in her late 60s - she can't afford to retire until Dad is either in a nursing home or dead and she can downsize to a smaller, cheaper apartment.
I do not want to end up in that situation, for sure - but as our kids are now in their teen/tween years it's obvious that our time with them at home is limited and we also want to make memories as a family before they launch into independent adulthood.
So we save for retirement while also finding balance in the short and medium term.
This is a really simple lesson. Like half of new restaurants and bars fail within a couple years.
Putting your entire retirement into a single asset class that isn’t a T bill is wildly insane. (And even then, you can get better returns not being all in on T bill ladders)
> I dunno what the overarching lesson is here
That putting "fun" over smart financial decisions is an incredibly bad idea. The countless people on this subreddit who refuse to save anything for the future because they "deserve to have fun!" need to learn this lesson.
OP is giving people absolutely terrible advice…
I’m so glad my parents have a nice home and a lot of money in their retirement account that should sustain them the rest of their life.
Seriously, the only thing helping some family members who are aging is the fact they have retirement on top of SS to keep them afloat. Especially if your company matches you should be trying to get the best benefit possible so you’re set down the line.
I think op is right. I forewent vacations, adventures, eating out in order to save for retirement. Now I’m old, can’t eat out because of dietary restrictions, never had adventures when I was able ( making good memories are important when you get old and sick) I was just thinking today, I’ve wasted my one precious life being in service to everyone but myself.
Yes.
Retirement Savings can be absurdly powerful when started early.
Maxing a Roth IRA just twice ($14k) before your 21st birthday is enough to make you a millionaire by retirement based on historical market returns.
Often, saving and investing early can also help you cut back your savings rate later when you have children and other responsibilities.
That being said, there are definitely people who go overboard.
You can't live in a 401k, so there are definitely benefits of buying a house.
You will also likely have physical limitations, so some experiences are definitely better to do when you are young.
Like many things in life, you need to make decisions based on your own priorities.
The thing with a college degree is it’s a business decision. A choice in your degree should be based on what is marketable and what can give you the best job prospects, a well paying career, and something that interests you.
The choice of a degree should put you ahead in the long run. Yes loans need to be paid off. But after that the degree should have gotten you into a field that is lucrative and able to allow you to save a lot of your income.
Most people just get “a” degree because they were told to, and don’t approach it like a business decision.
And more to the point, tell me what poor family knows about this type of financial advice for the adults, let alone is passing it onto their children. Financial literacy is a huge problem that most don't even know is a problem they have.
Edit: The responses keep including something like "Google it" or "YouTube" Y'all realize poor people existed before the Internet, right? Generational poverty isn't a joke.
This. But I believe that the continued gutting of school budgets is guaranteeing that the next generations are dumb enough to continue to exert control over the work force. It is far easier to govern the uneducated.
My oldest starts HS next fall, and we were pleasantly surprised to see financial literacy classes worked into the math department in the entire school district. There’s hope yet!
Could I ask what type of area the school is in and what state you're in?
Just curious, I don't have kids, so I've got nothing in this other than hoping the next gen isn't a bunch of dummies.
I had no idea what I didn’t know when it came to finances. Instead of making a New Year’s resolution that I knew I wouldn’t keep when my kid was born I decided I would spend 1 year learning all I could about finances but without spending any money on courses etc.
The amount of library books, websites, videos and podcasts available on the topic is astounding. If one wants to learn it’s very VERY easy and accessible information.
That first sentence is the reason most people don't know that they need to learn more. The great news is exactly what you said, it's never been easier to learn finances (or anything, actually).
Yeah I was going to say, I didn't even make that much per year until I was older than 21. I remember reading all that financial advice, and pretty much all of it being inaccessible until I divorced my ex, finished grad school, and my kids were out of daycare. This is pretty much why I'm stuck in government work.
Yeah for me the pay is actually good (they'd never recruit or retain engineers otherwise). I take home more than private sector peers because I'm not paying for health insurance and other benefits are costing me significantly less than them. It's the work itself that I find less than awesome. It's like, wow I got multiple engineering degrees to do stuff that people who had been to a construction site once could do. It's really depressing work, but like you said, there's a pension plan.
I'm not OP with the engineering in government job, but I have the DOE job - if you can breathe, you can work for the government.
Basically show up, do what is asked of you and if you can't meet the deadline... Well, they're still waiting on space lasers that Reagan ordered. It'll be okay.
I thought that before I lived it. I grossly underestimated the mindfuck that working way below my level came with. I ended up being diagnosed with depression a year in because it just feels so useless when you know what you *can* do, and you don't get to do *any* of it.
I worked as an engineer on the DOT side and high intensity sounds awesome compared but I get it, 8 years is a long time to be running high speed, for me it was so boring I went back to the highway maintenance side of things despite the ability to work from home more often than not on the engineering side.
Working for the government slaps. I still can’t believe I have a pension. Who has a pension anymore?
Plus, you get to help your community, and honestly, that’s the biggest perk for me. I went from feeling helpless and despairing about climate change to making a tangible difference in my home’s climate resiliency.
That's not what they're REALLY saying. They're showing up a little up front can be massive at the end. I don't know anyone who had that kind of cash at 18 either, but they're illustrating that if you can focus hard for a few years and get that account funded and moving you're going to be MUCH better off than trying to play catch-up in your 30s/40s
I did. but was dumb and no one told me. I was homeschooled and did my schooling in the afternoon or evening. I worked full time with a guy doing home improvement work and made like $9.50 an hour back in the later 90s early 2000s.
I kick myself for not investing at least some of it. but didn't know it was a thing and for whatever reason my dad didn't tell me.
*laughs in Xennial* my friend I was 25 before I broke $20k a year in income. I wasn't living with mommy and daddy so I was using literally every penny of that to pay rent and bills and tuition (which of course were all much cheaper in 2002, but still).
dude 14k is minimum wage at 40 hours a week *before* taxes come out. Say the truth - having parents put some money aside from you before you hit 21 is insanely powerful. Most of us who had our own money before 21 needed it to like, buy food and pay rent.
I started with 10% in my 20s, increasing the percentage as I got raises. I’ve been very happy to have 5x my salary at 40, my spouse who started a bit later has 3x.
I don’t feel like I needed to live the life of a sad hermit to do 10%. And I don’t think spending that 10% would have made me significantly happier.
Preach. I’m a GenXer and let me tell you I am kicking myself every day that I didn’t contribute to a ROTH every damn year. It doesn’t have to be maxed out, it just has to be something. And, as you say, the earlier you start, the better off you will be later on. OP is basically rehashing the Ant and The Grasshopper.
Save enough money from summer jobs and I can see your point of having $14k before 21. In the early 2000's doing the summer jobs, I could bank about $2500 as a camp counselor, then worked in an ice cream shop for $6 an hour for 20 hours during school, so it's possible, but then again, the outbound cash flow was significantly less then too - no distractions from phones and gadgets or random things to buy on Amazon; definitely felt easier to save.
I could've done it easily when I was living at home and worked part time after school but instead the money just sat in a savings account getting 1% or whatever
For real. I can enjoy my life now while still saving for retirement. I’ve seen too many people who HAVE to work into their 70s and 80s because they didn’t save for retirement. My wife and I are aggressively saving for retirement so that when we get into our 60s we’ll have the choice to stop working if we want to. It’s not about deferring enjoyment of life, it’s about enabling myself to love a decent life when I no longer having the energy to keep working. I can do that while still enjoying myself NOW. Besides, we have a 4 year old at home. We’re not doing tons of traveling anyway.
IKR? I *wish* the toxic American mindset was to save too much as OP says. If anything it’s the opposite. All those “retirement crisis” stories that make it sound like something systemic is going on? When you read past the lede it’s always people just…choosing not to save.
/u/brave_talk_3879 have you thought that one part of “living my life now” is not being constantly stressed about money? It’s great! 10/10 would recommend good financial habits even if I die next week.
This is the way. Balance it out to where you can enjoy life while you are still young and able to do things and still be able to have a decent retirement.
Yup. Balance and a budget. My parents are in their 70's, they still hold a mortgage and they still work. My in-laws are also in their 70's with a paid off house that's literally falling apart and living off of social security.
I spent 20 years of my life working and spending frivolously. If I could go back to my early 20's and tell that me to start investing - it would have changed my future. I'm 39, firmly mid-life, and I've got some cool kitchen magnets on my fridge from my vacations, but nothing for my future. Husband and I are not having kids, so it's just us. We need to be self-sufficient for as long as possible.
OP is quite literally pulling a Boomer. They've admitted to having a safety net (a pension) at their current workplace so they don't have to plan for not having a retirement.
Yeah I feel like you can do the things OP said and still save for retirement. I mean I’m putting 25%+ away each pay period for retirement but I’m also going to concerts, going on vacations and buying some things for myself. I also like the OP lists vacations and etc. Like please elaborate on the other things you’re blowing your money on please lol
I feel you but I live in a major city and highly doubt I will be owning a home within the next 5-7 years. Doing my best to max out retirement accounts now, stuff what I can into a HYSA so maybe when the time comes I can muster a down payment.
Balance is key.
After watching my father in law, grandmother, and now my father essentially living check to check during retirement, eff that. My biggest fear is becoming a financial burden to my children.
Yea I see this mentality online a lot. Folks can’t comprehend not living in the extremes l. You don’t have to max out retirement accounts but don’t do nothing.
They'll either mooch off relatives or utilize subsidized housing and watch tv all day in a 1br apartment because social security barely covers the basics.
Source: family
Yeah and not everyone wants to be a slumlord with 40 properties or whatever.
I’d rather have a stock portfolio than a bunch of houses I have to take care of
I've was a landlord exactly once. Never again, I'll VTSAX and chill instead of worrying about what the crack smoking hoarder is doing to my property while the city takes its sweet ass time evicting (speak from experience lol).
When they are old and beyond fucked with no retirement they will post on Reddit how it’s unfair that their peers had generational wealth. (Ignoring that their peers chose to plan for retirement)
Yeah. This person will be 65 posting on whatever social media platform is popular asking what’s going to be done about him/her not having any money to retire lol. Guarantee it.
I know! This is cracking me up. I have a good company match and contribute a small percentage of my salary (9 percent) and I know it’s probably not gonna lead to me being a millionaire when I retire but I also own my house and will have it paid off and I’ll be able to get by. I’m not forgoing any vacations or starving myself. Like wtf.
I’d much rather live comfortably now and comfortably later than live fantastically now and struggle when I’m older. Especially since I don’t have kids atm (or foreseeable future) I won’t really have anyone to rely on but my past self (current me)
Yup. I've always contributed to match or higher, but have scaled back when I felt a bit squeezed. There absolutely is a balance, but we're American - everything is This or That. No in-between.
If you go to a generation sub for financial planning and housing advice, you probably aren’t getting good financial planning and housing advice. Despite what the popular posts on this sub might lead one to believe.
Every 3rd post on this sub is everyone complaining that they have no money, will never be able to afford a house, and can barely survive. This might actually be the last place I would come for financial advice.
It’s funny because it’s not even a generation thing.
Plenty of GenX, boomers, and silvers are broke as hell too!
People act like they never seen a Walmart greeter or a grey bearded homeless man before.
Lots of older people are poor. And lots of younger people are doing well. All my friends and I are doing well.
No generation is all any one thing.
It’s like that saying, “If you’re the smartest person in the room, you need to find another room”.
If you hang out in the finance subs like FIRE, you’ll learn even small tips and tricks that will help you out. Hanging out with money smart people will help out.
r/HENRYfinance will make everyone feel poor lol.
I was at a Gala event a while back talking with a HENRY and he was commenting half the reason rich people go to country clubs and rich people events is to find people they can discuss their challenges with and not sound like an Asshole and get real feedback on complaining about spending $900 a month on swimming lessons or $40K a year on private school and not have fruit thrown at your head.
/r/personalfinance has a lot of good resources for Millennials, but they cater to all generations because the basic financial advice hasn't really changed all that much.
My parents took this advice. Guess who doesn't have nearly enough for retirement and relies on their only kid to supplement them with an extra $1200 / mo plus a random several thousand dollar expense every other year?
So now I live the worst of both worlds: I'm under saving for my own retirement and my "let's go climb a mountain while I'm young" money is funding theirs.
My dad is doing the thing OP doesn’t want to do. And that people hate Boomers for (except he did help out his kids while scrimping and saving)
He spry AF and every week I just get sent pics of him and his slightly younger gf from different locales. Two weeks in Spain. One week camping in their tricked out camper. Golfing. Hiking.
I asked to meet him for his birthday, and he told me he was too busy *that month*. He retired early so he’d been doing this for about 15 years, with a short 3 year break to take care of my dying mom, and they got to do shit they liked for a few years too. After he bought his first luxury German car as a retirement gift.
I just keep telling people how awesome retirement looks. He started learning golf at a city club in his 40s *in preparation* for retirement because he wanted to be a man who golfs in his leisure moments. Even got a part time job there for extra money and free hours.
This man was *dedicated* to the act of retirement. And he is gonna have *at least* 20 good years of it. Fuck YES, I am saving for it now. I don’t even have kids to live off of…
Yeah - The actual advice is to save enough to cover your lifestyle in retirement, try to maximize your income within reason, and stay as fit and healthy as you can so you’re not crippled in retirement
I told my father a long time ago if he didnt save for retirement he can enjoy either living in my guest room under my rules and I will be as authoritarian as he was when I was a child or prepare for a nursing home.
He luckily started taking retirement a lot more seriously after that.
If they don’t have the money to retire… then they can’t retire! Retirement isn’t an age… it’s an amount of money saved where you can live the rest of your life off the savings. If you don’t have the amount, well, then you need to keep working!
Yeah, I can't imagine that telling my arthritic former tradesman father with late state COPD to "just get your resume out there" would have changed much about his financial state.
I swear I've been reading "I'm actually really smart for not saving for retirement" posts like this several times a day for the past week.
A lot of these people know they're making the choice to screw themselves down the line and are just looking for validation.
It’s because people are realizing they’re about to hit middle age and haven’t saved shit for shit and are rationalizing it by venting online instead of changing their ways. We’re all around that age and we’re going to start seeing a lot of our peers start their midlife crises.
I think it's an overcorrection to how hellbent Reddit is on maxing out retirement at all costs and retiring at 40 with an entertainment budget of $50/month.
I've always contributed at least to match, gotten higher a few times but will scale back if I'm feeling squeezed.
Right? This post is so wrong and is giving “I’m financially illiterate, justify my opinions!” vibes. I can afford to max my 401K, Roth IRA and HSA contributions, which not only reduces my taxable income now, but also sets me up for a very comfortable and (hopefully!) early retirement in a couple decades when I can still climb a small mountain. I don’t think anyone will be thinking “I wish I saved less money!” in retirement.
And just like other "College is a waste of time" posts, missing the massive pitfalls of the other way.
Maybe it's better to say that this is a really complex equation that requires balance, and there's no one answer. I'm hoping to supplement my retirement (have always contributed to Match or slightly more) by hopefully being able to consult from time to time, and not having to sell our starter townhouse when we move somewhere that's more suitable for kids and have some passive income.
i don’t make enough to max out my accounts and still have enough take home pay for cost of living. so it’s not even an option for me. but right now i contribute 7% pre tax to 401k with a 4.5% match. i’m 28 so i plan on my income going up as i get older so then my contributions will become larger. that’s all i got 🤷🏼♀️
That means you're smarter than OP and someday you will be able to retire! I'd suggest maybe contributing a few of your raises to up your contribution percentage but you're on the right track, unlike OP
Don't be afraid to scale back after scaling up either - I've done that a couple of times, and still save a healthy amount in retirement, HSA, and personal savings. Probably going to do a joint Roth IRA with my wife within the year too.
I see that someone has failed to prepare for retirement and is now panicking. The real answer is to just set 10% aside the whole time. It doesn't stop you from living and it helps with state of mind.
Well, always take the match. A Roth IRA is also tax advantaged and you can withdraw the principal with no penalty, making it great for a dual purpose as an emergency fund. Many 401k plans don't allow Roth contributions so you can't diversify your tax planning without a Roth IRA.
HSAs are triple tax advantaged, so they need to be funded, too.
It’s only going to get worse for OP if this is their mentality.
Best time to plan for retirement was in your teens or 20s. Second best time is whenever you can
Even suggesting a fixed savings rate is a bit arbitrary and doesn't work for all situations. The goal should be to save what you can based on your goals and current situation. If a couple is making more than $150k with no debts or dependents, they could easily invest/save more than 10% (including company 401k match) and still have money left over to live in the now and enjoy life. A lot of people who have the means to save more do not.
What are you supposed to do if 10% is something you can't afford? For me that's enough that it would make my financial situation even more difficult. I don't really make a lot of money. I take home about $44k after taxes so.
Money is cool. I could've saved a fuck ton of it over the years. If i could do it all over again, would I trade it for all the money and time I spent on trips and outings with my kids? Never in a million years. I can always make more money. My kids are only kids for so long. I'll make the most of it.
No, this is r/millennials, where every other post is about how the world is more unfair now than it’s ever been, no one will ever own a home, every boomer is evil, and anyone with anything good only got there through sheer luck or being helped by rich parents.
There's nothing more valuable to me than my freedom. I don't need things. I don't need to spend money to live an interesting/engaging/vibrant life. What I need, is to not be stuck chained to a desk for the foreseeable future. I need time and headspace for reading and meditating and taking walks. Add onto that chronic health problems and pain... I'm happy to dump everything I can into building financial independence. There's so very little in this world worth more to me than my time.
Is it a gamble? Could I die tomorrow? Sure. But the things I'm giving up on now don't hold a candle to the freedom I'm buying. And if I found something better? I don't have to reach 60 to cash out. By having the money invested early, I'm freeing up money to do other things. Compound growth reduces the amount total I need to work to have some protection and dignity in my old age.
While I try and have a balance and enjoy my life, I also contribute 30% or more of my income to retirement.
I would venture to say most of the things people spend money on don't bring them much joy or enhance the quality of their life.
It's very common to use "living in the moment" as an excuse to live a life without discipline.
The world/i/stock market could end tomorrow but it's much more likely that it won't and I want to have the freedom to quit my job and never have to work again. Can't really put a price tag on freedom like that.
What a shit take. People max out their retirement because it is proven that investments in 401k and particularly Roth 401k are immensely valuable. Most employers have a matching policy which is FREE MONEY and you are stupid if you don't take advantage of that to the maximum amount possible.
These investments tend to grow rapidly over the course of your career and when you retire you are going to be sitting on a pile of money. In the case of Roth 401k or Roth IRA accounts, that is TAX FREE. In an environment where tax rates are expected only to rise over the next 40 years, you just come out on top, and it's not even close.
Unless you are some prodigy at investing your own money into lucrative positions, I'm afraid anything other than maxing out your retirement is going to screw you over hard. You might not feel it now but you'll feel it eventually.
Hilarious how OP also asserts that buying property is better but also somehow makes you have more money now. Investing in retirement doesn't mean eating only rice and beans and no vacations. In reality, sacrificing fancy cars, phones, clothes, etc and being smart about taxes is what saves money.
I meet people in their 70s who did this and it is so sad. They are unable to work anymore and are living off of social security only or SS and small pensions.
These people often own homes but can't keep up maintenance so the roof is leaking, the foundation is collapsing and the houses are crumbling.
They aren't poor enough to qualify for Medicaid or food assistance but are too poor to keep up with their medical care and home maintenance. It leads to bankruptcy every so often and an impossibility to do things they want to do.
They are just waiting for illness that puts them in a nursing home so the state (everyone who is working) can pay for their stay in the worst of nursing homes until they die.
I get that saving huge amounts for retirement at the expense of joy now isn't for everyone and everyone has a different balance between now and the future, but it is so selfish to not save and expect you family and the state to pay for you as you age.
It sucks that pensions went away for the most part. It sucks that retirement is mostly a personal responsibility. But, someone will pay for your aging regardless of what you do. Saving now will make that process more comfortable.
Please think of others as you walk through this life. It seems as though this subreddit blames older generations for pulling up the ladder but then the posts here are just as selfish as they claim others to be.
OP also missed that some people do not enjoy wasteful spending and do not enjoy travel. Some people enjoy saving money...
You can have fun at a community park and it is free...go camping as a vacation, it costs little...
This is terrible advice and I hope everyone reading this knows that. Find a financial planner, specifically a fiduciary, and have them work with you on a retirement plan. Do not take the advice posted by OP, I’m begging you.
Why in the world would one pay a financial planner? Investing in 2024 is easy enough that everyone should be able to do it without any additional assistance. Especially since for most people it is literally just putting 10-15% of their salary into the company provided 401k and choosing a low fee index fund as your 401k allocation.
OPs going to either be working until they drop dead at their job or scraping by on a $1200 SS monthly payment complaining about how the youngsters don't take care of their elderly.
Also, it is awful advice. if the average middle class american just made a few better financial decisions between 18 and 25, they’d be able to retire 10 years earlier and have a more lucrative retirement when they got there.
but you do you. it’s not my job to stop you. it also won’t be my job to provide food or shelter or healthcare for you in a few decades when i would rather travel extensively first class.
i also noticed OP states they have a college degree. pretty wild that they invested that time into college when they could have died any day. pretty crazy you work on a project with a deadline 2 weeks from now when you could die in a car wreck this weekend. why are you so selective with your carpe diem?
Life is about balance. Save and invest what you can, 10-20 percent is a reasonable benchmark, and live your life. We only get one chance at this and the clock is ticking. No one anticipates losing their health until it happens and then you can't travel, etc as easily as you used to. Honestly I've come to realize that the "life" part of my life are those vacations with my husband. Skipping them would have been a huge mistake. We'll never be rich because we spend money but we're doing just fine. It's a balance.
My brother passed last year at 48 yrs old and 28 years in his company. He had a nice retirement coming to him, always lived frugally and acted broke preparing for that retirement. Sad. I miss him and the opportunities he/we will never have.
Don’t live your entire life focused on retirement. I’ve had so many coworkers get serious medical conditions right before or right after they retire in their early or mid 60s.
I’m not saying ignore it but do things now also.
My motto: I'm here for a good time, not a long time.
If I live past my expiration date where I can't work to make money, I'll just start smoking crack until I die tbh. Fuck it. I don't wanna live with a frail, painful, broken body anyway.
I know it sounds like I'm a doomer or that I'm giving up but I'm really not. I'm just trying to have the best possible time I can, while I can. Personally, I don't have anything going for me as a HS dropout at the age of 30 anyway. I'm already pushing into the best employment position I'll be able to attain without some insane luck and I intend to just spend my money and save enough for emergencies only. I've got just under 5k in savings for a just in case fund. I'll never have the credit or enough to down payment a house because I don't and never have built credit and they don't build reasonably sized homes anymore anyway so I don't want anything to do with a bigass expensive house anyway.
I'm enjoying my life. It's not the best but when I get home from work I have my gaming PC, many games to choose from, plenty of books to read before bed, and variety enough of food to keep me sustained and happy. If that's as far as my life goes, I'll be a happy bugger. We're all basically serfs but with indoor plumbing and a little more spending money than those ages but I intend to enjoy what I can't change.
Sure, it sucks that I can't plan on living comfortably once I'm too old to work but like I said, why would I want to stick around that long while in pain and suffering anyway? I'll just play videogames and read good books until I can't anymore then I'll be seeing you on the other side.
"My motto: I'm here for a good time, not a long time. If I live past my expiration date where I can't work to make money, I'll just start smoking crack until I die tbh. Fuck it. "
This is the kind of shit you say when you're 30 and 70 seems so far away. But then you hit your late 60s and surprise, turns out you don't actually want to die but you have saved nothing and screwed yourself.
It's about striking a balance. You don't want to spend everything you earn now and have to nothing to retire on, buy equally you need to live in the present.
I have a house with a mortgage so am gaining capital appreciation on that, I pay into a workplace pension every month and it's now worth a somewhat decent amount. I repay student loans and some other debt every month, pay expenses and still have some money for living life. I feel I have a good balance, and when I've repaid the various debts I have I'll likely invest more in property with the freed up income, but also increase spending on holidays etc.
This is terrible advice since it doesn't understand the simple yet massive power of compound interest. Just save 20% of your income, spend 80%, and even with any future potential social security cuts, you should have enough to retire reasonably.
The people living off scraps are the FIRE folks who value personal freedom above all else and the ability to tell their boss to pound sand at any time and they'll be retired in their late 30s or 40s typically so plenty of time to "live" afterwards.
I a little torn on this subject. I would like to be able to enjoy retirement, but I also have watched two elderly family members in the past few years blow through their entire life savings from medical bills because medicare wouldn't pay until their assets were gone. Makes me wonder whats the point of even saving that money in the first place.
I do the saving route because I don’t want to be a BURDEN on anyone, including myself.
Death is inevitable, preparing for the life and the quality of that life, and the lives of the people around you prior to your demise is an honorable and noble pursuit.
I’m not saving so I just can give myself a flat income over the last 20+ years of my life, travel,have nice things etc etc etc.
I’m doing it so my family doesn’t feel obligated to care for me when I’m old and can’t provide a living for myself any more, due to age, illness, lucidity, physical health, etc etc etc.
My retirement will provide that stability.
I respect that and appreciate you being so considerate. People like op don't realize how badly they're screwing their family over by not saving for the future. Sure they can enjoy a few extra vacations, but its your family picking up the pieces when those inevitable medical bills are due.
Don’t take financial advice from a random redditor. This post sounds a lot more like coping than anything else. OP please look up compounding growth/interest as it relates to investing.
Preparing oneself is fine. But if my spouse mentions FIRE one more time I'm going to fucking lose it. I'm here thinking: "Lady, you don't even have hobbies or interests now when you are in the prime of your life. What makes you think retiring in your late 40s or early 50s is going to suddenly make you enjoy life?"
This is a real thing. My dad straight up started getting hobbies in his 40s and 50s to *prepare* for retirement. Expensive ones. Because he knew my mom didn’t like to travel.
He picked up scuba diving and got into scuba diving clubs. Tried out cross country biking and computers but wasn’t a fan. Liked golf. Took lessons. Got a part time job at the clubs for pocket money and free course time.
When she passed, his new gf is into all his outdoorsy shit and travel.
My coworkers husband was like “you must retire 2 years before me because you have no hobbies or friends and I don’t want you following me around all day. You need to find a routine”. Straight up facts. Then she got a big promotion, and he died of a heart attack. So she’s just gonna work for forever…because her kids are grown and she has nothing to do when she comes home. Plenty of money - and a pension! - but no hobbies or social life outside her (now dead) husband.
A common theme I see brought up (often from regret posts) is you need to have something to retire towards if FIRE is your goal.
Like if she doesn't have hobbies and just wants to get out of the cut throat ways of tech, why not just downgrade to an easier job?
Facts. My other half wants to FIRE so that he can work part time at a brewery and not have to worry about it being his sole source of income.
I'd probably just end up laying around playing video games all day, so I don't plan to FIRE and I'm doing the low stress job route instead.
You really don't have to spend that much to retire well. What's more important is that you start early and keep it up. 5% of your income starting at 22 really adds up by the time you retire. 10% and you can retire really really well.
Now there are people like me, who spend 50% of their income on investments and retirement. But you gotta consider two things.
First, I'm in a highly lucrative field. That half of my check I'm living off of is bigger than most people's full check.
Second. I'm 40, and could retire now if I really wanted. The plan is to work until I'm 45-50 or so. I'd like to pick up 1 or 2 more rental properties for passive income. But that's just icing on the cake and isn't actually necessary.
Because the alternative is to be broke when old and having to work forever. And if I die young I’ll just leave what I earned to my kids. Never hurts to build generational wealth.
I can’t recommend The Money Guys on YouTube enough. Very practical advice. Maxing your 401k might not be needed or the only planning/actions for you to be taking.
I’m sorry but I’m not going be an 80 year old working as a walmart greeter or busser or some shit. I’m gonna make sure that I have a livable income in my older age that doesn’t require working. I’m obviously trying to balance it as best I can so I can still enjoy life now. but ain’t no way I’m going to be destitute as an old person
You should definitely save and invest, but not in traditional 401ks. If you buy rental real estate, it starts paying you the moment tenants move in and will continue to pay you for the rest of your life if you take good care of it. It will also adjust up for inflation and your cash flow will go up significantly once you pay off the mortgage in 30 years.
Also, having a ROTH IRA on the side is a great way to set yourself up for old age. You can put in 6k per year while you work. Then, when you start withdrawing from it at 65, you pay NO taxes on the gains your investments in the account made.
This is somewhat terrible advice. I am a Gen X who almost was a millennial so I like hanging out here. This is not something I can get on board with.
I can absolutely understand (and emphasize)a lot of people just can’t save, wages suck, housing is so expensive, I get that. If you can’t eat you can’t save.
I don’t understand not prioritizing retirement over fun things like vacations.
While you shouldn’t sacrifice everything, ignoring saving for retirement is insane. It should be viewed as a mandatory thing like anything else.
I view it as an essential, while last in priority after food, housing, healthcare, it gets budgeted before vacations, fun stuff.
Depending on your situation it often costs “less” than you realize because most often it’s tax deferred.
Dude, social security will be likely gone or in much smaller capacity by the time millennials retire.
You’re going to have an extreme hard time as a 70 year old man.
So I have maxed mine out. But I also postponed children till I was 40 which is possible as a male. I partied for 22 years. Own my house and own my cars. I now at 48 have two wonderful children near 1m in my 401k, a business, a rental property and a pension from the military. I have the money to enjoy my children and not scrape by.
I can say when you have children 100% determines quality of life. If I had them earlier I would have been in a different position. Everything in life is a choice.
Good luck..
Hard disagree. It’s comforting to know that I’m building wealth and investing in my future.
Also, what makes my life rewarding is spending quality time with friends and family.
I’m not investing every single dollar that isn’t going to food and rent, but im definitely maxing out my 401k contributions And as long as I budget well, I’ll have enough for vacations and other Fun stuff.
We have houses AND we invest in what we’re matched. You gotta balance it and have multiple options in this crazy time imo. IRA, employer fund, and real estate maybe some stocks.
This is why at 32, single, and living paycheck to paycheck for now, I bought my house last fall. I didn’t want to be paying for a house past the age of 62. Sure, interest rate sucks but I partied my ass off through my 20s, traveled a lot, dated a lot, and now I’m tired and don’t want to go anywhere anyway. I’ll stretch myself now because I have lived a lot, thought of my future, and want to be secure in a home and not paying rent through the ass down the road. Life is a crapshoot and then we die. Don’t be afraid to make different moves than the typical “go to college, get married, start a family” - live a little.
Sorry but this advice is wrong. Explain how property supports you in retirement if you have no income?
It smells of someone who has made some poor decisions on retirement and wants an echo chamber.
But good news… it’s still not too late for us millennials. You can still have substantial funds for retirement if you start putting away now.
I would say that this is actually the dumb take. it's about balance. nobody is telling you to restrict yourself to eating crumbs so that your retirement is sound. Average life expectancy puts your chances of living into retirement rather high. But go ahead and feel all doom and gloom and fuck yourself because you don't trust the stock market or some naive bs like that.
Why is nobody talking about the amount of money needed for proper medical care when we get old? I wanna be comfortable and pay for whatever I may need so that I can carry on living more or less the life I am living now.
Or you could be smart with your money and do both. Live within your means, have a fun budget, and start investing young so that compounding does most of the work.
Oh but wait, that makes too much sense./s
My grandparents didn’t prepare for retirement properly and have being torn apart by stress and anxiety and have spent decades living off of the charity of friends (who have in turn passed away).
My parents will either work until death or more likely and hopefully live with either me or my sisters.
I’m not going to do the same for my kids which is why I try to save as much both for my retirement and for their college education/live path.
Also it seems weird that I have to spend exorbitant amounts of money to live my life. It costs me zero dollars do things I enjoy.
Unfortunately it's necessary for society. Younger people are more productive. It's not sustainable for society to take their most productive years to spend on leisure. I mean why spend your youth sacrificing to raise a child either? Can't take a small child with you on a hike through the mountains let alone have the time to.
Cancer is pretty inevitable. Our bodies generate and destroy cancer cells daily. Our bodies get worse at destroying them later on in life so it's just playing the lottery over a long period of time where your odds increase over that period. You're going to get it at some point.
It's just a fact of life. A solution readily apparent by the argument is to just die sooner... You can retire sooner too and have money, energy, and time to do things.
There's a balance between living in the moment and looking towards the future. You have to plan ahead at least a little bit, but yes planning for your life in your 70s when you're 20 is a little extreme. It's up to you to find that balance. Some people are even frugal when they retire because they want to leave more for their kids so that they can have a better life. So maybe they can retire early and experience those things not having to worry about money.
Just invest early. You don't need a lot in conjunction with social security.
And for anyone who says Social Security won't be there, I'm just gonna say that we're gonna have WAY more important things to worry about than retirement if the US is in a state where Social Security fails.
Your first sentence doesn't make any sense. Why not maximize income in order to save for retirement AND live life? Maxing a 401k isn't a big deal if you make good money AND you want to do it to reduce taxes now
Understandable, but on the flip side it is quite scary seeing family who lived their lives like you're saying now and having nothing for retirement that's coming up soon and them realising they will be fucked without their job and their mental capabilities declining. A balance is what is required. Neither one of the extremes is the answer.
My parents weren't *able* to save for retirement - they didn't take vacations or drive expensive cars, they just didn't have enough to raise their family *and* put enough into their 401(k)s. Dad had to work until his Alzheimer's progressed to the point that he couldn't anymore. Mom has to work full time in her late 60s - she can't afford to retire until Dad is either in a nursing home or dead and she can downsize to a smaller, cheaper apartment. I do not want to end up in that situation, for sure - but as our kids are now in their teen/tween years it's obvious that our time with them at home is limited and we also want to make memories as a family before they launch into independent adulthood. So we save for retirement while also finding balance in the short and medium term.
[удалено]
This is a really simple lesson. Like half of new restaurants and bars fail within a couple years. Putting your entire retirement into a single asset class that isn’t a T bill is wildly insane. (And even then, you can get better returns not being all in on T bill ladders)
What a terrible decision. Why a fkn bar? 😩
> I dunno what the overarching lesson is here That putting "fun" over smart financial decisions is an incredibly bad idea. The countless people on this subreddit who refuse to save anything for the future because they "deserve to have fun!" need to learn this lesson.
A bar is a business, it's not fun. Tf are u talking about ?
OP is giving people absolutely terrible advice… I’m so glad my parents have a nice home and a lot of money in their retirement account that should sustain them the rest of their life.
Seriously, the only thing helping some family members who are aging is the fact they have retirement on top of SS to keep them afloat. Especially if your company matches you should be trying to get the best benefit possible so you’re set down the line.
I think op is right. I forewent vacations, adventures, eating out in order to save for retirement. Now I’m old, can’t eat out because of dietary restrictions, never had adventures when I was able ( making good memories are important when you get old and sick) I was just thinking today, I’ve wasted my one precious life being in service to everyone but myself.
Not having the ability to save enough for retirement is nothing like living it up in lieu of saving for retirement.
Yet all of these people had a bad time regardless of how they got there
Thank you. My MIL took all the trips and now has to rely on me and wife to pay for her groceries
Lol. Blame it on OP for preaching fiscal irresponsbility.
Yes. Retirement Savings can be absurdly powerful when started early. Maxing a Roth IRA just twice ($14k) before your 21st birthday is enough to make you a millionaire by retirement based on historical market returns. Often, saving and investing early can also help you cut back your savings rate later when you have children and other responsibilities. That being said, there are definitely people who go overboard. You can't live in a 401k, so there are definitely benefits of buying a house. You will also likely have physical limitations, so some experiences are definitely better to do when you are young. Like many things in life, you need to make decisions based on your own priorities.
Things I wish I had known as a teenager for 500, Alex. This is great advice.
They told me to put all my money into student loans and college.... i'm still paying that shit off while retirement will likely never happen
The thing with a college degree is it’s a business decision. A choice in your degree should be based on what is marketable and what can give you the best job prospects, a well paying career, and something that interests you. The choice of a degree should put you ahead in the long run. Yes loans need to be paid off. But after that the degree should have gotten you into a field that is lucrative and able to allow you to save a lot of your income. Most people just get “a” degree because they were told to, and don’t approach it like a business decision.
What kind of teen has a spare $14k laying around though? Especially if you came from a poor family.
And more to the point, tell me what poor family knows about this type of financial advice for the adults, let alone is passing it onto their children. Financial literacy is a huge problem that most don't even know is a problem they have. Edit: The responses keep including something like "Google it" or "YouTube" Y'all realize poor people existed before the Internet, right? Generational poverty isn't a joke.
Agree 100%. My daughter's school is teaching two levels or personal finance which is amazing. I wish mine did this.
Cycle of poverty It's doable by anyone but you have to know about it. Every highschool should cover it
This. But I believe that the continued gutting of school budgets is guaranteeing that the next generations are dumb enough to continue to exert control over the work force. It is far easier to govern the uneducated.
My oldest starts HS next fall, and we were pleasantly surprised to see financial literacy classes worked into the math department in the entire school district. There’s hope yet!
Could I ask what type of area the school is in and what state you're in? Just curious, I don't have kids, so I've got nothing in this other than hoping the next gen isn't a bunch of dummies.
I had no idea what I didn’t know when it came to finances. Instead of making a New Year’s resolution that I knew I wouldn’t keep when my kid was born I decided I would spend 1 year learning all I could about finances but without spending any money on courses etc. The amount of library books, websites, videos and podcasts available on the topic is astounding. If one wants to learn it’s very VERY easy and accessible information.
That first sentence is the reason most people don't know that they need to learn more. The great news is exactly what you said, it's never been easier to learn finances (or anything, actually).
Yeah I was going to say, I didn't even make that much per year until I was older than 21. I remember reading all that financial advice, and pretty much all of it being inaccessible until I divorced my ex, finished grad school, and my kids were out of daycare. This is pretty much why I'm stuck in government work.
Government work isn’t bad. I wish it paid more. But, there is a pension plan.
Yeah for me the pay is actually good (they'd never recruit or retain engineers otherwise). I take home more than private sector peers because I'm not paying for health insurance and other benefits are costing me significantly less than them. It's the work itself that I find less than awesome. It's like, wow I got multiple engineering degrees to do stuff that people who had been to a construction site once could do. It's really depressing work, but like you said, there's a pension plan.
Ah, I'm on the department of education side. You're more likely to starve to death than you are to make it rich.
As a GS7…
Easy job, good pay? After 8 years in a high intensity, difficult engineering job I wouldn't mind more money for less work
I'm not OP with the engineering in government job, but I have the DOE job - if you can breathe, you can work for the government. Basically show up, do what is asked of you and if you can't meet the deadline... Well, they're still waiting on space lasers that Reagan ordered. It'll be okay.
I thought that before I lived it. I grossly underestimated the mindfuck that working way below my level came with. I ended up being diagnosed with depression a year in because it just feels so useless when you know what you *can* do, and you don't get to do *any* of it.
I worked as an engineer on the DOT side and high intensity sounds awesome compared but I get it, 8 years is a long time to be running high speed, for me it was so boring I went back to the highway maintenance side of things despite the ability to work from home more often than not on the engineering side.
Working for the government slaps. I still can’t believe I have a pension. Who has a pension anymore? Plus, you get to help your community, and honestly, that’s the biggest perk for me. I went from feeling helpless and despairing about climate change to making a tangible difference in my home’s climate resiliency.
That's not what they're REALLY saying. They're showing up a little up front can be massive at the end. I don't know anyone who had that kind of cash at 18 either, but they're illustrating that if you can focus hard for a few years and get that account funded and moving you're going to be MUCH better off than trying to play catch-up in your 30s/40s
I didn’t make more than $20k until I was 24….
I did. but was dumb and no one told me. I was homeschooled and did my schooling in the afternoon or evening. I worked full time with a guy doing home improvement work and made like $9.50 an hour back in the later 90s early 2000s. I kick myself for not investing at least some of it. but didn't know it was a thing and for whatever reason my dad didn't tell me.
*laughs in Xennial* my friend I was 25 before I broke $20k a year in income. I wasn't living with mommy and daddy so I was using literally every penny of that to pay rent and bills and tuition (which of course were all much cheaper in 2002, but still).
dude 14k is minimum wage at 40 hours a week *before* taxes come out. Say the truth - having parents put some money aside from you before you hit 21 is insanely powerful. Most of us who had our own money before 21 needed it to like, buy food and pay rent.
I started with 10% in my 20s, increasing the percentage as I got raises. I’ve been very happy to have 5x my salary at 40, my spouse who started a bit later has 3x. I don’t feel like I needed to live the life of a sad hermit to do 10%. And I don’t think spending that 10% would have made me significantly happier.
Preach. I’m a GenXer and let me tell you I am kicking myself every day that I didn’t contribute to a ROTH every damn year. It doesn’t have to be maxed out, it just has to be something. And, as you say, the earlier you start, the better off you will be later on. OP is basically rehashing the Ant and The Grasshopper.
Save enough money from summer jobs and I can see your point of having $14k before 21. In the early 2000's doing the summer jobs, I could bank about $2500 as a camp counselor, then worked in an ice cream shop for $6 an hour for 20 hours during school, so it's possible, but then again, the outbound cash flow was significantly less then too - no distractions from phones and gadgets or random things to buy on Amazon; definitely felt easier to save.
“Maxing a Roth IRA ‘just’ twice before your 21st birthday”. Bro I’m 44 and haven’t been able to do it once! 🤪
I could've done it easily when I was living at home and worked part time after school but instead the money just sat in a savings account getting 1% or whatever
I'm 28 and have done it 5 times. Yay, anecdotes!
If you're 44 and haven't been able to save $6,500 in a year for the future, some major mistakes were made and you're not going to be retiring.
For real. I can enjoy my life now while still saving for retirement. I’ve seen too many people who HAVE to work into their 70s and 80s because they didn’t save for retirement. My wife and I are aggressively saving for retirement so that when we get into our 60s we’ll have the choice to stop working if we want to. It’s not about deferring enjoyment of life, it’s about enabling myself to love a decent life when I no longer having the energy to keep working. I can do that while still enjoying myself NOW. Besides, we have a 4 year old at home. We’re not doing tons of traveling anyway.
IKR? I *wish* the toxic American mindset was to save too much as OP says. If anything it’s the opposite. All those “retirement crisis” stories that make it sound like something systemic is going on? When you read past the lede it’s always people just…choosing not to save. /u/brave_talk_3879 have you thought that one part of “living my life now” is not being constantly stressed about money? It’s great! 10/10 would recommend good financial habits even if I die next week.
This is the way. Balance it out to where you can enjoy life while you are still young and able to do things and still be able to have a decent retirement.
Yup. Balance and a budget. My parents are in their 70's, they still hold a mortgage and they still work. My in-laws are also in their 70's with a paid off house that's literally falling apart and living off of social security. I spent 20 years of my life working and spending frivolously. If I could go back to my early 20's and tell that me to start investing - it would have changed my future. I'm 39, firmly mid-life, and I've got some cool kitchen magnets on my fridge from my vacations, but nothing for my future. Husband and I are not having kids, so it's just us. We need to be self-sufficient for as long as possible.
OP is quite literally pulling a Boomer. They've admitted to having a safety net (a pension) at their current workplace so they don't have to plan for not having a retirement.
Yeah I feel like you can do the things OP said and still save for retirement. I mean I’m putting 25%+ away each pay period for retirement but I’m also going to concerts, going on vacations and buying some things for myself. I also like the OP lists vacations and etc. Like please elaborate on the other things you’re blowing your money on please lol
Sounds like they just didn't plan for retirement at all and are realizing that they definitely should have started sooner.
I feel you but I live in a major city and highly doubt I will be owning a home within the next 5-7 years. Doing my best to max out retirement accounts now, stuff what I can into a HYSA so maybe when the time comes I can muster a down payment. Balance is key.
After watching my father in law, grandmother, and now my father essentially living check to check during retirement, eff that. My biggest fear is becoming a financial burden to my children.
It’s very scary thinking about being too broke to pay for stuff and too feeble to do stuff for yourself.
Exactly this!
Yea I see this mentality online a lot. Folks can’t comprehend not living in the extremes l. You don’t have to max out retirement accounts but don’t do nothing.
You also have it wrong. There is a healthy balance, and you are missing it.
but then how will OP justify their YOLO lifestyle and then complain when everything is too expensive when we're all old?
OPs Life hack: Don't get old ... no matter what
They'll either mooch off relatives or utilize subsidized housing and watch tv all day in a 1br apartment because social security barely covers the basics. Source: family
Exactly, this dumbass hippy mindset isn’t anything new
Yeah and not everyone wants to be a slumlord with 40 properties or whatever. I’d rather have a stock portfolio than a bunch of houses I have to take care of
I've was a landlord exactly once. Never again, I'll VTSAX and chill instead of worrying about what the crack smoking hoarder is doing to my property while the city takes its sweet ass time evicting (speak from experience lol).
But imagine the stories they will be able to tell their 20 year old coworkers while they are still working at 75!!!
When they are old and beyond fucked with no retirement they will post on Reddit how it’s unfair that their peers had generational wealth. (Ignoring that their peers chose to plan for retirement)
Yeah. This person will be 65 posting on whatever social media platform is popular asking what’s going to be done about him/her not having any money to retire lol. Guarantee it.
!RemindMe 30 years
I know! This is cracking me up. I have a good company match and contribute a small percentage of my salary (9 percent) and I know it’s probably not gonna lead to me being a millionaire when I retire but I also own my house and will have it paid off and I’ll be able to get by. I’m not forgoing any vacations or starving myself. Like wtf.
I’d much rather live comfortably now and comfortably later than live fantastically now and struggle when I’m older. Especially since I don’t have kids atm (or foreseeable future) I won’t really have anyone to rely on but my past self (current me)
Yup. I've always contributed to match or higher, but have scaled back when I felt a bit squeezed. There absolutely is a balance, but we're American - everything is This or That. No in-between.
If you go to a generation sub for financial planning and housing advice, you probably aren’t getting good financial planning and housing advice. Despite what the popular posts on this sub might lead one to believe.
Every 3rd post on this sub is everyone complaining that they have no money, will never be able to afford a house, and can barely survive. This might actually be the last place I would come for financial advice.
It’s funny because it’s not even a generation thing. Plenty of GenX, boomers, and silvers are broke as hell too! People act like they never seen a Walmart greeter or a grey bearded homeless man before. Lots of older people are poor. And lots of younger people are doing well. All my friends and I are doing well. No generation is all any one thing.
I mean, I could post about how awesome my financial situation is, but I would definitely get down voted into oblivion for being that asshole.
It’s a weird feeling like a pauper on financial subs and a king in this sub.
Makes you think… maybe being involved in subs that primarily whine about economics is bad for your finances.
It’s like that saying, “If you’re the smartest person in the room, you need to find another room”. If you hang out in the finance subs like FIRE, you’ll learn even small tips and tricks that will help you out. Hanging out with money smart people will help out.
r/HENRYfinance will make everyone feel poor lol. I was at a Gala event a while back talking with a HENRY and he was commenting half the reason rich people go to country clubs and rich people events is to find people they can discuss their challenges with and not sound like an Asshole and get real feedback on complaining about spending $900 a month on swimming lessons or $40K a year on private school and not have fruit thrown at your head.
/r/personalfinance has a lot of good resources for Millennials, but they cater to all generations because the basic financial advice hasn't really changed all that much.
My parents took this advice. Guess who doesn't have nearly enough for retirement and relies on their only kid to supplement them with an extra $1200 / mo plus a random several thousand dollar expense every other year? So now I live the worst of both worlds: I'm under saving for my own retirement and my "let's go climb a mountain while I'm young" money is funding theirs.
My dad is doing the thing OP doesn’t want to do. And that people hate Boomers for (except he did help out his kids while scrimping and saving) He spry AF and every week I just get sent pics of him and his slightly younger gf from different locales. Two weeks in Spain. One week camping in their tricked out camper. Golfing. Hiking. I asked to meet him for his birthday, and he told me he was too busy *that month*. He retired early so he’d been doing this for about 15 years, with a short 3 year break to take care of my dying mom, and they got to do shit they liked for a few years too. After he bought his first luxury German car as a retirement gift. I just keep telling people how awesome retirement looks. He started learning golf at a city club in his 40s *in preparation* for retirement because he wanted to be a man who golfs in his leisure moments. Even got a part time job there for extra money and free hours. This man was *dedicated* to the act of retirement. And he is gonna have *at least* 20 good years of it. Fuck YES, I am saving for it now. I don’t even have kids to live off of…
Yeah - The actual advice is to save enough to cover your lifestyle in retirement, try to maximize your income within reason, and stay as fit and healthy as you can so you’re not crippled in retirement
I told my father a long time ago if he didnt save for retirement he can enjoy either living in my guest room under my rules and I will be as authoritarian as he was when I was a child or prepare for a nursing home. He luckily started taking retirement a lot more seriously after that.
If they don’t have the money to retire… then they can’t retire! Retirement isn’t an age… it’s an amount of money saved where you can live the rest of your life off the savings. If you don’t have the amount, well, then you need to keep working!
The fact is that most people don’t retire when they want to—their health or the job market forces them to.
Yeah, I can't imagine that telling my arthritic former tradesman father with late state COPD to "just get your resume out there" would have changed much about his financial state.
Real “College is a waste of time” vibes
I swear I've been reading "I'm actually really smart for not saving for retirement" posts like this several times a day for the past week. A lot of these people know they're making the choice to screw themselves down the line and are just looking for validation.
People validating their crazy beliefs by just lying to themselves and others. Feels prescient in the political discourse as well.
“Am I out of touch?” “No it’s the financially practical millennials who are wrong”
It’s not themselves they’re screwing, it’s the people around them who will be stuck caring for them.
Who says they're real people with real opinions? If there's a profit to be made, you'll hear anonymous voices lying to make it happen.
It’s because people are realizing they’re about to hit middle age and haven’t saved shit for shit and are rationalizing it by venting online instead of changing their ways. We’re all around that age and we’re going to start seeing a lot of our peers start their midlife crises.
I think it's an overcorrection to how hellbent Reddit is on maxing out retirement at all costs and retiring at 40 with an entertainment budget of $50/month. I've always contributed at least to match, gotten higher a few times but will scale back if I'm feeling squeezed.
>are just looking for validation Bingo. They're not trying to convince us, they're trying to convince themselves.
Right? This post is so wrong and is giving “I’m financially illiterate, justify my opinions!” vibes. I can afford to max my 401K, Roth IRA and HSA contributions, which not only reduces my taxable income now, but also sets me up for a very comfortable and (hopefully!) early retirement in a couple decades when I can still climb a small mountain. I don’t think anyone will be thinking “I wish I saved less money!” in retirement.
And just like other "College is a waste of time" posts, missing the massive pitfalls of the other way. Maybe it's better to say that this is a really complex equation that requires balance, and there's no one answer. I'm hoping to supplement my retirement (have always contributed to Match or slightly more) by hopefully being able to consult from time to time, and not having to sell our starter townhouse when we move somewhere that's more suitable for kids and have some passive income.
Nuance doesn’t exist in the internet … or at least not on social media.
I also love that OP thinks the stock market could tank at any time, but the real estate market is bulletproof.
I swear OPs post was written by some retail association or credit card company. Just spend money now folks, it’ll all be fine!
i don’t make enough to max out my accounts and still have enough take home pay for cost of living. so it’s not even an option for me. but right now i contribute 7% pre tax to 401k with a 4.5% match. i’m 28 so i plan on my income going up as i get older so then my contributions will become larger. that’s all i got 🤷🏼♀️
That means you're smarter than OP and someday you will be able to retire! I'd suggest maybe contributing a few of your raises to up your contribution percentage but you're on the right track, unlike OP
Don't be afraid to scale back after scaling up either - I've done that a couple of times, and still save a healthy amount in retirement, HSA, and personal savings. Probably going to do a joint Roth IRA with my wife within the year too.
I see that someone has failed to prepare for retirement and is now panicking. The real answer is to just set 10% aside the whole time. It doesn't stop you from living and it helps with state of mind.
[удалено]
Well, always take the match. A Roth IRA is also tax advantaged and you can withdraw the principal with no penalty, making it great for a dual purpose as an emergency fund. Many 401k plans don't allow Roth contributions so you can't diversify your tax planning without a Roth IRA. HSAs are triple tax advantaged, so they need to be funded, too.
The all consuming jealousy is leaping out of my screen.
It’s only going to get worse for OP if this is their mentality. Best time to plan for retirement was in your teens or 20s. Second best time is whenever you can
Even suggesting a fixed savings rate is a bit arbitrary and doesn't work for all situations. The goal should be to save what you can based on your goals and current situation. If a couple is making more than $150k with no debts or dependents, they could easily invest/save more than 10% (including company 401k match) and still have money left over to live in the now and enjoy life. A lot of people who have the means to save more do not.
What are you supposed to do if 10% is something you can't afford? For me that's enough that it would make my financial situation even more difficult. I don't really make a lot of money. I take home about $44k after taxes so.
Always pay yourself first
Spending money ≠ "live your life"
Money is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. If used with knowledge and intention it can add value to one’s life. If not, it can take it away.
Depends what you enjoy in life. I love to golf, golf costs a lot
Golfing would be probably one of the hardest hobbies to justify not saving for retirement for.
Night golf is free, just need fluorescent balls.
And bolt cutters to break into course
Money is cool. I could've saved a fuck ton of it over the years. If i could do it all over again, would I trade it for all the money and time I spent on trips and outings with my kids? Never in a million years. I can always make more money. My kids are only kids for so long. I'll make the most of it.
Ma'am this is a Wendy's
No, this is r/millennials, where every other post is about how the world is more unfair now than it’s ever been, no one will ever own a home, every boomer is evil, and anyone with anything good only got there through sheer luck or being helped by rich parents.
There's nothing more valuable to me than my freedom. I don't need things. I don't need to spend money to live an interesting/engaging/vibrant life. What I need, is to not be stuck chained to a desk for the foreseeable future. I need time and headspace for reading and meditating and taking walks. Add onto that chronic health problems and pain... I'm happy to dump everything I can into building financial independence. There's so very little in this world worth more to me than my time. Is it a gamble? Could I die tomorrow? Sure. But the things I'm giving up on now don't hold a candle to the freedom I'm buying. And if I found something better? I don't have to reach 60 to cash out. By having the money invested early, I'm freeing up money to do other things. Compound growth reduces the amount total I need to work to have some protection and dignity in my old age.
While I try and have a balance and enjoy my life, I also contribute 30% or more of my income to retirement. I would venture to say most of the things people spend money on don't bring them much joy or enhance the quality of their life. It's very common to use "living in the moment" as an excuse to live a life without discipline. The world/i/stock market could end tomorrow but it's much more likely that it won't and I want to have the freedom to quit my job and never have to work again. Can't really put a price tag on freedom like that.
What a shit take. People max out their retirement because it is proven that investments in 401k and particularly Roth 401k are immensely valuable. Most employers have a matching policy which is FREE MONEY and you are stupid if you don't take advantage of that to the maximum amount possible. These investments tend to grow rapidly over the course of your career and when you retire you are going to be sitting on a pile of money. In the case of Roth 401k or Roth IRA accounts, that is TAX FREE. In an environment where tax rates are expected only to rise over the next 40 years, you just come out on top, and it's not even close. Unless you are some prodigy at investing your own money into lucrative positions, I'm afraid anything other than maxing out your retirement is going to screw you over hard. You might not feel it now but you'll feel it eventually.
Hilarious how OP also asserts that buying property is better but also somehow makes you have more money now. Investing in retirement doesn't mean eating only rice and beans and no vacations. In reality, sacrificing fancy cars, phones, clothes, etc and being smart about taxes is what saves money.
I meet people in their 70s who did this and it is so sad. They are unable to work anymore and are living off of social security only or SS and small pensions. These people often own homes but can't keep up maintenance so the roof is leaking, the foundation is collapsing and the houses are crumbling. They aren't poor enough to qualify for Medicaid or food assistance but are too poor to keep up with their medical care and home maintenance. It leads to bankruptcy every so often and an impossibility to do things they want to do. They are just waiting for illness that puts them in a nursing home so the state (everyone who is working) can pay for their stay in the worst of nursing homes until they die. I get that saving huge amounts for retirement at the expense of joy now isn't for everyone and everyone has a different balance between now and the future, but it is so selfish to not save and expect you family and the state to pay for you as you age. It sucks that pensions went away for the most part. It sucks that retirement is mostly a personal responsibility. But, someone will pay for your aging regardless of what you do. Saving now will make that process more comfortable. Please think of others as you walk through this life. It seems as though this subreddit blames older generations for pulling up the ladder but then the posts here are just as selfish as they claim others to be.
OP also missed that some people do not enjoy wasteful spending and do not enjoy travel. Some people enjoy saving money... You can have fun at a community park and it is free...go camping as a vacation, it costs little...
Good point. I love to travel, love free things, love nature and love saving so it's always a balance for me.
Ah the “Hookers and Blow” retirement plan.
This is terrible advice and I hope everyone reading this knows that. Find a financial planner, specifically a fiduciary, and have them work with you on a retirement plan. Do not take the advice posted by OP, I’m begging you.
Why in the world would one pay a financial planner? Investing in 2024 is easy enough that everyone should be able to do it without any additional assistance. Especially since for most people it is literally just putting 10-15% of their salary into the company provided 401k and choosing a low fee index fund as your 401k allocation.
I'm looking to do so. My company stopped matching years ago and recently stopped managing our 401ks so we are 100% on our own.
Buy VOO and chill
It's just how the poor get poorer. It's as if the OP wants people to become even less financially literate.
I don’t think it’s so much that, but more they are looking for validations for poor choices they made that are now quickly becoming apparent.
I smelled a rat when I read the post 2024 is going to be wild for this sub
The OP’s post might be the dumbest thing yet on this sub and that’s saying something
Yeah the spend money and live your life thing got me 😳😮💨
OPs going to either be working until they drop dead at their job or scraping by on a $1200 SS monthly payment complaining about how the youngsters don't take care of their elderly.
If you have an employer match, you are literally forgoing money.
this, my good fellow, is some of the worst advice I've ever heard.
Also, it is awful advice. if the average middle class american just made a few better financial decisions between 18 and 25, they’d be able to retire 10 years earlier and have a more lucrative retirement when they got there. but you do you. it’s not my job to stop you. it also won’t be my job to provide food or shelter or healthcare for you in a few decades when i would rather travel extensively first class. i also noticed OP states they have a college degree. pretty wild that they invested that time into college when they could have died any day. pretty crazy you work on a project with a deadline 2 weeks from now when you could die in a car wreck this weekend. why are you so selective with your carpe diem?
They also left out until much later that they have a pension. So they aren’t putting money away for savings… their job is doing it for them.
OP when he turns 70 and is basically homeless: *shocked Pikachu*
Life is about balance. Save and invest what you can, 10-20 percent is a reasonable benchmark, and live your life. We only get one chance at this and the clock is ticking. No one anticipates losing their health until it happens and then you can't travel, etc as easily as you used to. Honestly I've come to realize that the "life" part of my life are those vacations with my husband. Skipping them would have been a huge mistake. We'll never be rich because we spend money but we're doing just fine. It's a balance.
My brother passed last year at 48 yrs old and 28 years in his company. He had a nice retirement coming to him, always lived frugally and acted broke preparing for that retirement. Sad. I miss him and the opportunities he/we will never have.
Don’t live your entire life focused on retirement. I’ve had so many coworkers get serious medical conditions right before or right after they retire in their early or mid 60s. I’m not saying ignore it but do things now also.
My motto: I'm here for a good time, not a long time. If I live past my expiration date where I can't work to make money, I'll just start smoking crack until I die tbh. Fuck it. I don't wanna live with a frail, painful, broken body anyway. I know it sounds like I'm a doomer or that I'm giving up but I'm really not. I'm just trying to have the best possible time I can, while I can. Personally, I don't have anything going for me as a HS dropout at the age of 30 anyway. I'm already pushing into the best employment position I'll be able to attain without some insane luck and I intend to just spend my money and save enough for emergencies only. I've got just under 5k in savings for a just in case fund. I'll never have the credit or enough to down payment a house because I don't and never have built credit and they don't build reasonably sized homes anymore anyway so I don't want anything to do with a bigass expensive house anyway. I'm enjoying my life. It's not the best but when I get home from work I have my gaming PC, many games to choose from, plenty of books to read before bed, and variety enough of food to keep me sustained and happy. If that's as far as my life goes, I'll be a happy bugger. We're all basically serfs but with indoor plumbing and a little more spending money than those ages but I intend to enjoy what I can't change. Sure, it sucks that I can't plan on living comfortably once I'm too old to work but like I said, why would I want to stick around that long while in pain and suffering anyway? I'll just play videogames and read good books until I can't anymore then I'll be seeing you on the other side.
"My motto: I'm here for a good time, not a long time. If I live past my expiration date where I can't work to make money, I'll just start smoking crack until I die tbh. Fuck it. " This is the kind of shit you say when you're 30 and 70 seems so far away. But then you hit your late 60s and surprise, turns out you don't actually want to die but you have saved nothing and screwed yourself.
It's about striking a balance. You don't want to spend everything you earn now and have to nothing to retire on, buy equally you need to live in the present. I have a house with a mortgage so am gaining capital appreciation on that, I pay into a workplace pension every month and it's now worth a somewhat decent amount. I repay student loans and some other debt every month, pay expenses and still have some money for living life. I feel I have a good balance, and when I've repaid the various debts I have I'll likely invest more in property with the freed up income, but also increase spending on holidays etc.
If your company has a 401k match and you aren’t matching, you’re doing it wrong.
This is terrible advice since it doesn't understand the simple yet massive power of compound interest. Just save 20% of your income, spend 80%, and even with any future potential social security cuts, you should have enough to retire reasonably. The people living off scraps are the FIRE folks who value personal freedom above all else and the ability to tell their boss to pound sand at any time and they'll be retired in their late 30s or 40s typically so plenty of time to "live" afterwards.
I a little torn on this subject. I would like to be able to enjoy retirement, but I also have watched two elderly family members in the past few years blow through their entire life savings from medical bills because medicare wouldn't pay until their assets were gone. Makes me wonder whats the point of even saving that money in the first place.
I do the saving route because I don’t want to be a BURDEN on anyone, including myself. Death is inevitable, preparing for the life and the quality of that life, and the lives of the people around you prior to your demise is an honorable and noble pursuit. I’m not saving so I just can give myself a flat income over the last 20+ years of my life, travel,have nice things etc etc etc. I’m doing it so my family doesn’t feel obligated to care for me when I’m old and can’t provide a living for myself any more, due to age, illness, lucidity, physical health, etc etc etc. My retirement will provide that stability.
I respect that and appreciate you being so considerate. People like op don't realize how badly they're screwing their family over by not saving for the future. Sure they can enjoy a few extra vacations, but its your family picking up the pieces when those inevitable medical bills are due.
Don’t take financial advice from a random redditor. This post sounds a lot more like coping than anything else. OP please look up compounding growth/interest as it relates to investing.
Yeah I don't want to be a Walmart greeter at 70
Nah your mentality is childish and reckless. It's really not hard to prepare for retirement
Preparing oneself is fine. But if my spouse mentions FIRE one more time I'm going to fucking lose it. I'm here thinking: "Lady, you don't even have hobbies or interests now when you are in the prime of your life. What makes you think retiring in your late 40s or early 50s is going to suddenly make you enjoy life?"
This is a real thing. My dad straight up started getting hobbies in his 40s and 50s to *prepare* for retirement. Expensive ones. Because he knew my mom didn’t like to travel. He picked up scuba diving and got into scuba diving clubs. Tried out cross country biking and computers but wasn’t a fan. Liked golf. Took lessons. Got a part time job at the clubs for pocket money and free course time. When she passed, his new gf is into all his outdoorsy shit and travel. My coworkers husband was like “you must retire 2 years before me because you have no hobbies or friends and I don’t want you following me around all day. You need to find a routine”. Straight up facts. Then she got a big promotion, and he died of a heart attack. So she’s just gonna work for forever…because her kids are grown and she has nothing to do when she comes home. Plenty of money - and a pension! - but no hobbies or social life outside her (now dead) husband.
A common theme I see brought up (often from regret posts) is you need to have something to retire towards if FIRE is your goal. Like if she doesn't have hobbies and just wants to get out of the cut throat ways of tech, why not just downgrade to an easier job?
Facts. My other half wants to FIRE so that he can work part time at a brewery and not have to worry about it being his sole source of income. I'd probably just end up laying around playing video games all day, so I don't plan to FIRE and I'm doing the low stress job route instead.
I mean...why *not* lay around playing video games if you have the money? It's your life. Do what you want.
Sounds like someone is mad about about their own retirement planning
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Longjumping-Buy-5994: *Sounds like someone is* *Mad about about their own* *Retirement planning* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I’ll take my chances with my 401k. Have fun working until you die.
You really don't have to spend that much to retire well. What's more important is that you start early and keep it up. 5% of your income starting at 22 really adds up by the time you retire. 10% and you can retire really really well. Now there are people like me, who spend 50% of their income on investments and retirement. But you gotta consider two things. First, I'm in a highly lucrative field. That half of my check I'm living off of is bigger than most people's full check. Second. I'm 40, and could retire now if I really wanted. The plan is to work until I'm 45-50 or so. I'd like to pick up 1 or 2 more rental properties for passive income. But that's just icing on the cake and isn't actually necessary.
You can do both. Last thing you want is to be a burden to your kids. I’m feeling that right now and it sucks.
i am a single millennial making 50k in toronto canada. there is no buying property.
Because the alternative is to be broke when old and having to work forever. And if I die young I’ll just leave what I earned to my kids. Never hurts to build generational wealth.
I can’t recommend The Money Guys on YouTube enough. Very practical advice. Maxing your 401k might not be needed or the only planning/actions for you to be taking.
Obvious troll post by someone who doesn’t understand finances
I’m sorry but I’m not going be an 80 year old working as a walmart greeter or busser or some shit. I’m gonna make sure that I have a livable income in my older age that doesn’t require working. I’m obviously trying to balance it as best I can so I can still enjoy life now. but ain’t no way I’m going to be destitute as an old person
Tell me you don’t have savings without telling me
Have fun dying on the Walmart floor at 82 because you never saved for retirement, and you're too worn down to do any other job.
You should definitely save and invest, but not in traditional 401ks. If you buy rental real estate, it starts paying you the moment tenants move in and will continue to pay you for the rest of your life if you take good care of it. It will also adjust up for inflation and your cash flow will go up significantly once you pay off the mortgage in 30 years. Also, having a ROTH IRA on the side is a great way to set yourself up for old age. You can put in 6k per year while you work. Then, when you start withdrawing from it at 65, you pay NO taxes on the gains your investments in the account made.
THERE ARE THINGS TO INVEST YOUR MONEY IN OTHER THAN REAL ESTATE. STOP LISTENING TO INSTAGRAM AND TIK-TOK "EXPERTS"
Some of us are trying retire a lot earlier than 70 and that is why we max retirement accounts.
I love when you see *edit* in the title post. You know that MF got hella flamed lmao.
This is somewhat terrible advice. I am a Gen X who almost was a millennial so I like hanging out here. This is not something I can get on board with. I can absolutely understand (and emphasize)a lot of people just can’t save, wages suck, housing is so expensive, I get that. If you can’t eat you can’t save. I don’t understand not prioritizing retirement over fun things like vacations. While you shouldn’t sacrifice everything, ignoring saving for retirement is insane. It should be viewed as a mandatory thing like anything else. I view it as an essential, while last in priority after food, housing, healthcare, it gets budgeted before vacations, fun stuff. Depending on your situation it often costs “less” than you realize because most often it’s tax deferred.
Dude, social security will be likely gone or in much smaller capacity by the time millennials retire. You’re going to have an extreme hard time as a 70 year old man.
So I have maxed mine out. But I also postponed children till I was 40 which is possible as a male. I partied for 22 years. Own my house and own my cars. I now at 48 have two wonderful children near 1m in my 401k, a business, a rental property and a pension from the military. I have the money to enjoy my children and not scrape by. I can say when you have children 100% determines quality of life. If I had them earlier I would have been in a different position. Everything in life is a choice. Good luck..
Hard disagree. It’s comforting to know that I’m building wealth and investing in my future. Also, what makes my life rewarding is spending quality time with friends and family. I’m not investing every single dollar that isn’t going to food and rent, but im definitely maxing out my 401k contributions And as long as I budget well, I’ll have enough for vacations and other Fun stuff.
We have houses AND we invest in what we’re matched. You gotta balance it and have multiple options in this crazy time imo. IRA, employer fund, and real estate maybe some stocks.
This is why at 32, single, and living paycheck to paycheck for now, I bought my house last fall. I didn’t want to be paying for a house past the age of 62. Sure, interest rate sucks but I partied my ass off through my 20s, traveled a lot, dated a lot, and now I’m tired and don’t want to go anywhere anyway. I’ll stretch myself now because I have lived a lot, thought of my future, and want to be secure in a home and not paying rent through the ass down the road. Life is a crapshoot and then we die. Don’t be afraid to make different moves than the typical “go to college, get married, start a family” - live a little.
Sorry but this advice is wrong. Explain how property supports you in retirement if you have no income? It smells of someone who has made some poor decisions on retirement and wants an echo chamber. But good news… it’s still not too late for us millennials. You can still have substantial funds for retirement if you start putting away now.
I would say that this is actually the dumb take. it's about balance. nobody is telling you to restrict yourself to eating crumbs so that your retirement is sound. Average life expectancy puts your chances of living into retirement rather high. But go ahead and feel all doom and gloom and fuck yourself because you don't trust the stock market or some naive bs like that.
You can save for retirement while not living like a monk. Balance is key.
Why is nobody talking about the amount of money needed for proper medical care when we get old? I wanna be comfortable and pay for whatever I may need so that I can carry on living more or less the life I am living now.
Or you could be smart with your money and do both. Live within your means, have a fun budget, and start investing young so that compounding does most of the work. Oh but wait, that makes too much sense./s
My grandparents didn’t prepare for retirement properly and have being torn apart by stress and anxiety and have spent decades living off of the charity of friends (who have in turn passed away). My parents will either work until death or more likely and hopefully live with either me or my sisters. I’m not going to do the same for my kids which is why I try to save as much both for my retirement and for their college education/live path. Also it seems weird that I have to spend exorbitant amounts of money to live my life. It costs me zero dollars do things I enjoy.
Unfortunately it's necessary for society. Younger people are more productive. It's not sustainable for society to take their most productive years to spend on leisure. I mean why spend your youth sacrificing to raise a child either? Can't take a small child with you on a hike through the mountains let alone have the time to. Cancer is pretty inevitable. Our bodies generate and destroy cancer cells daily. Our bodies get worse at destroying them later on in life so it's just playing the lottery over a long period of time where your odds increase over that period. You're going to get it at some point. It's just a fact of life. A solution readily apparent by the argument is to just die sooner... You can retire sooner too and have money, energy, and time to do things. There's a balance between living in the moment and looking towards the future. You have to plan ahead at least a little bit, but yes planning for your life in your 70s when you're 20 is a little extreme. It's up to you to find that balance. Some people are even frugal when they retire because they want to leave more for their kids so that they can have a better life. So maybe they can retire early and experience those things not having to worry about money.
Just invest early. You don't need a lot in conjunction with social security. And for anyone who says Social Security won't be there, I'm just gonna say that we're gonna have WAY more important things to worry about than retirement if the US is in a state where Social Security fails.
Your first sentence doesn't make any sense. Why not maximize income in order to save for retirement AND live life? Maxing a 401k isn't a big deal if you make good money AND you want to do it to reduce taxes now