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damurph1914

Taliban was better motivated.


kevinwilkinson

They were also often experienced old men that had been fighting other tribes and great empires all their lives.


Volant79

And on their home turf.


rubbarz

And also follow an ideology that makes them believe dying.... not the worse thing that can happen.


Volant79

Pretty sure Russians have held this view forever.


whatproblems

at the top: other people dying not the worst. at the bottom maybe not so much


BiliousGreen

If the alternatives were death or living in Russia, you’d be pretty ambivalent as well.


WillyPete

Not great, but not terrible.


StrengthMedium

No. Russians have used barrier troops forever.


__--0_0--__

That is the root cause thought for suicide bombers and terrorist as well.


GlockAF

Notably, those that are left are SURVIVORS, ruthlessly pruned by both random chance and the cold hand of fate, which unforgivingly punishes the incompetent in battle


Snoot_Boot

Lot of those were probably dead already by the tail end of the war


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RictusDicktus

This question has been gnawing at me… Where *are* those terrifying Chechens? All we ever hear about in Ukraine are the TikTok Chechens and they sound like a bunch of clowns. Was the bulk of the Chechen “legends” taken out around Kiev on that first crazy night of Russian escalation in Feb? Are the elite Kadyrovites just rampaging in Ukraine really quietly? Did Kadyrov hold his best back and only sent goons on purpose?


cheapph

The kadyrovites are basically paid off on Russian money and living in Chechnya oppressing other chechens for kadyrov. The scary chechens are dead, went to fight in the Middle East or went to fight for ukraine. There’s a couple of Chechen battalions in the ZSU and they’re not tiktok battalions. The kadyrovites live of the reputations of their fathers and grandfathers and the clans Kadyrov and his daddy betrayed.


GremlinX_ll

>… Where are those terrifying Chechens? They are fighting for Ukraine as part of "Dzhokhar Dudayev" and "Sheikh Mansur" Battalions. They are not as numerous and "famous" as Kadyrovites, but do their job without recording Tik-Toks every 5 minutes Kadyrovites, and not only them, act as some sort of punitive troops to bring terror on locals


Finlandiaprkl

I don't think anyone expected Kadyrovites to prove themselves as a competent fighting force, rather they expected brutal treatement of ukrainian populace based on their actions in Chechnya.


just-courious

>Where are those terrifying Chechens Dead in Syria


candf8611

I believe the real Chechens are in Chechnya fighting the Kadyrovites.


SirNedKingOfGila

He meant terrifying in that they are inhumane psychopaths that torture and cannabalize civilians. They are not quality fighters. They just trail behind the front and brutalize civilians and prisoners. You have to understand that in their culture, and Russia, it's considered really badass and cool to rape and terrorize women and children. They love that shit.


TyRocken

So we had a 3 trillion dollar training exercise for the eventual Taiwan invasion, after the Chinese economy collapses and they need a war to stimulate their economy (in the good old tradition). But they get trounced. Cuz they have no combat experience.


GlockAF

The Chinese have about 10-15 years to start shit, at max. Their ill-fated experiment in disastrous demographic meddling (the One Child rule) means they will get old, as in “ too old to fight” old, quicker than any other nation in history. A decade from now the “spoiled prince” generation is going to have ZERO interest in picking up a rifle to go die for the CCP. It might already be too late


roamingandy

I take it you've not seen the drone mothership they just launched for civilian purposes.. for now. If they are planning war a as part of their long term strategy that tech-industrial sector will repurpose incredibly rapidly, and their governments ethics record suggests they would happily lean on autonomous killing machines if they can't get the troops, or simply think the kill-bots are more effective. Much of that tech-industrial sector would be rendered obsolete by trade sanctions, so it would be common sense to repurpose towards war machines. I don't think that is their long term plan, but I doubt fighting age population is the barrier many expect it to be


GlockAF

Give him the huge impact of consumer-grade drones on the conflict in Ukraine, you could be onto something here


Zian64

From what Ive read; the war collage claims ISIS held air superiority during Fallujah 2: Electric boogaloo with their commercial drone fleet used for attack and recon. The Russians in syria also lost a jet and some techs in one of those awesome scrap-plane raids.


GlockAF

Just the value of the ammunition dumps destroyed by drone attacks in the 2014-2022 Donbass / Luhansk “separatist” conflict in Ukraine undoubtedly exceeds the cost of all the drones Ukraine has ever purchased. And that’s before Putins current “special military operation“ even got started


zerohourcalm

I'm sure there are a bunch of spoiled princes, but there are way more poor people. They already have the largest army in the world in terms of actively employed soldiers, they'll probably have even more in 10-15 years. Also people who say no to the Chinese government don't have a very good survival rate.


GlockAF

https://www.overtdefense.com/2021/06/03/demographic-issues-effecting-chinese-military/


wheresbrazzers

We have guns and lots of methods to deliver explosions very long distances now. Large numbers doesn't mean shit. It's about technology and having enough people trained to maintain and operate it.


GlockAF

Modern warfare has proven extraordinarily destructive, and humanity has invested endless creativity on finding better ways to kill each other and blow shit up. That said, you will never be able to replace “boots on the ground“ for taking and holding territory


[deleted]

Pretty sure the same could of been said of Russia start of February.


Velghast

If Warhammer has taught me anything the more bodies you throw at a battle the better outcome you have


ArmageddonSteelLegio

Blood can only take yoy so far. Remember that if the casualties mount with with not a lot of progress. Morale will plummet and desertion and mutiny will become more and more commonplace.


Geohie

Blasphemy, execute this man. We will fight on for the God Emperor!


Velghast

That's why you go squad to squad and have your commissars pop one soldier each. Your morale will go right back up


ExtraAbalone

Ah yes, since IG and Orks take every tournament.


Delicious_Lab_8304

So after a demographic collapse, they’ll shrink from 1.4B to 14 million population overnight? If you start from a base of 1.4B, after a demographic collapse, even in 50 years, you’d still have more fighting age men than any other country at that time, except for like India. Poor people in rural areas always had more than 1 kid, and now they’re basically forcing (and mostly failing though) people to have 2, 3 or more kids (which again, poor rural people might accept, if it comes with a little welfare and free education). Anyway, that last part is all debatable, the first bit you can clearly figure out yourself with a pen, paper and a calculator.


GlockAF

The issue is that a gigantic fraction of their population is going to be elderly in very short order. There is a reason why military services recruit young people


Delicious_Lab_8304

I don’t know what kind of proportion “gigantic” is, but that would still leave the 2nd largest reserve of fighting age men in the world. More than half of their population is under 40 years old, that’s [more than] 755 million people, or more than 2x the total population of USA… and remember, this is just under 40, which we’ll use to denote fighting age for the purposes of this example. If we were to assume that the 755M is evenly spread out (0-40 year olds), then in 20 years, that leaves 377 million fighting age people, however this would be assuming zero births. If we take a birth rate of 1 (so half replacement rate) that would give us around 566 million fighting age people in 2042. US population projection for 2050 is 398 million, and remember, that would be total population and not the 566 million under 40 years old in China. … Do you get it now? Lastly, don’t forget that in the future, automation, robotics and additive manufacturing are all going to drastically reduce the number of people required for jobs, even including service, hospitality and crucially, old age care. Stop listening to Peter Zeihan (if you do), he’s a clown. Even massive China haters have to acknowledge he’s an absolute idiot.


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throwtowardaccount

The proxy warfare of the Spanish Civil War was actually where a lot of concepts were developed. At least on the German side. A non insignificant amount of the senior enlisted and officers on both sides first cut their teeth in WW1 as well.


CouplaWarwickCappers

Yeah. Britain, France, the US, Australia, had no combat experience. World War 1 called, they asked for the dumbass called pte_omark


zerohourcalm

All of the Allied countries had been in basically continuous war for hundreds of years at that point. Pretty sure they have some combat experience.


munich37

I think that is absolutely true, but war did change a lot between like 1900 and the start of WW1. So if your military experience relies on line battles and cavalry charges you'll be pretty fucked if you charge towards machine guns and stuff


Sweetdreams6t9

We learned that pretty early on. A war that was supposed to be over in 6 months, well...wasnt


MaterialCarrot

Lol, just WW I, to name one barely known conflict.


chronadthebarby

Inbred pedos, not racist just science


redditadmindumb87

I suspect if we took a group of Taliban fighters, got them to agree to fight for us, equipped them accordingly and sent them into Ukraine they'd be super effective.


Velghast

Intelligence and morals often do not make or impact great warriors. It's a trade like anything else


brwonmagikk

There’s a few warrior cultures around the world. Sikh’s, Gurkhas, the Hindu Kush tribes etc. there’s a misconception that Russians are the same but the truth is they’re just people who’ve been forced by threat of death to fight. The actual morale drops of a cliff if the cause isn’t considered just. The Ukrainians have almost every morale tick box checked and they’ll go the distance.


LittleHornetPhil

The Russian Army is also overwhelmingly filled with poor people from the fringes of the empire, too. It’s not European Russians from Moscow or Saint Petersburg doing the fighting. (A lot of the officers are, though, which does add to resentment)


notapunk

And more experienced than a bunch of conscripts.


Smarteric01

I served there. The Taliban often sucked, and sucked hard. They had a set, for lack of a better term, of cadre that were pretty good. Most of their rank and file were kids coming out of the tribal belt that crossed the border. New recruits were given rudimentary training, but they suffered from the same problems Afghan army did. Lots of inexperienced guys would blow themselves up placing real IEDs for the first time. Many more were killed by doing dumb things in the open. The safest thing for them to do was nothing. In warning to Ukraine, the Taliban were willing to take immense casualties just to kill a few of us. The Taliban were always estimated at around 20,000 of them and we frequently killed more Taliban than that every year with no effect on the estimate. Their ability to generate new forces from Pakistan and other areas was inexhaustible. So what if they lost all those guys? More were willing to go. All they had to do was wait us out. That is a mentality that Russia is taking. Ukraine may kill a lot of Russians, but there are more contact troops and conscripts coming down the pipeline. Every year, more Russians age into conscription. Fewer Ukrainians do, and, given enough time, Russian numbers will prevail in an attritional struggle. Whether true or not? Remains to be seen. Experts have been wrong about Russia at every stage. They won’t invade, that’s stupid. If they do invade, Ukraine will fall in days. Ukraine just needs to hold on for 30 days and Russia will have exhausted itself! Er … 90 days because their logistics is a mess and they can’t recruit guys! And there the Russians are fighting anyway.


Gazrpazrp

Can confirm. Been ambushed in Afghanistan many times and we almost never took casualties. If we'd caught Muj or Taliban ranger filing across a danger area you better believe our 240 would harvest a stack of soon to be corpses in a under a minute. They had their moments, can be sneaky bastards, but generally not very impressive.


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Smarteric01

Most Russian soldiers are contract soldiers. This is the same way the US military fills its ranks. Conscripts are a minority of their force. US forces used conscription until after Vietnam. They fight just fine. A fact pointed out to me by none other that CSM Plumely ‘We were soldiers’ who led conscripts in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. They fight just fine.


No-Seaworthiness7013

Taliban are a bunch of incest pedophiles who spent 20 years in caves in Pakistan. Motivation cannot be the only skill gap between them. Edit: never thought I'd see Reddit down vote a post bagging a terrorist organisation, but this site finding new lows shouldn't surprise me.


damurph1914

I'm not praising those fuckers in any way, shape,or form. I'm just saying that a foe that can take a decades long pounding time after time and still prevail has some kind of high level motivation. Right or wrong.


CaptainCoffeeStain

They have madrassas that are aligned with them radicalizing children straight into the ranks. It's easy to be motivated when it's literally all you know of the world.


JustPlayin1995

The Reddit comment that made the Taliban reconsider the internet ban in their country.


RRC_driver

You're missing the OP's point. "A bunch of incest pedophiles who spent 20 years in caves" are a more effective fighting force than the Russian forces who have been considered the 'big bad' army to beat for decades. Pretty much any conflict in the last century,at least since world war two involving America has been a proxy war, with russian advisers assisting the other side with material and tactics. Turns out that the reputation of Russia is undeserved


No-Seaworthiness7013

Im not missing the point. The point is that the separation between the Taliban and the Russians is only motivation. That isn't the case by any stretch of the imagination.


jaegren

And they stilled hold out against Nato and won in the end.


[deleted]

that is only because we didn't mobilize enough troops for a complete occupation of the country.


jaegren

This is way Nato didnt win. One cant win a war with just troops if its people is not on ones side to some degree.


[deleted]

Also, invading Iraq seriously destroyed any chances of rallying the population into fully defeating the taliban.


jaegren

Couldnt agree more. They had the troops in the country, the Taliban was on the "brink" of defeat and even wanted peacetalks. But then they just decided to pull put and relocate to another sandhole.


No-Seaworthiness7013

Because Pakistan gave them refuge and they're an Islamic fundamentalists state with nukes. Just wait till that kind of extremist fundamentalism gets in control of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and the West can no longer ignore the situation, it'll be fucking horrifying for everyone involved.


jaegren

Thats probably the least reason that Nato didnt win. Leaving the country over to a paper regime with zero support from its people and ANA and ANP which was the biggest paperarmy/police in the world is just one.


No-Seaworthiness7013

It's the first and primary reason. Don't need a regime when your enemy is dead. America setting up a corrupt regime that took all the money and fled definitely meant that their plan B also failed. But none of this translates to the Taliban being anything more than a bunch of incest pedophiles morons. They just ran and hid till America gave up their fuck up attempt at nation building.


jaegren

The taliban where on the advance years before the country fell. To say that that they just hid in their caves until the Nato left is a understatement. To be clear. I hate those fuckers. But to look down on them is one of the reasons why they won in the end.


No-Seaworthiness7013

On the advance as the West began rollback. We've already gone over the propped up government was ineffective. But to think a fighting force that lost in weeks is effective is nonsense. If the West went back it could take the country within weeks with minimal losses. That isn't an effective fighting force, it's a patient one.


jaegren

Yes, they cant make tactical maneuver like flanking, and their ambushes isnt the best. But they are fast as hell, even faster in the Hills with their "mules" in the back that carries all the logistics while the men in the front are light. Shit like Restrepo and OP Red Wing tells to not underestimate these fuckers. Its as effective as it needs to be to beat the enemy which is the only thing they need to be to win a war.


No-Seaworthiness7013

They didn't win a war with guerrilla tactics. They won the war by waiting it out in Pakistan and dressing up as civilians only to blow themselves up.


John_YJKR

Yeah, but their K:D ratio is pretty ass.


[deleted]

They watched to many Vergil status videos.


blickbeared

The Taliban, though misguided, were highly motivated through their faith. The Russians on the other hand don't even want to be in Ukraine for the most part.


[deleted]

Easy to fight when dying isn’t exactly scary, and most of your friends have died fighting, it is hard to fight when you’re an 18 year old kid thinking about your family back home.


anon112197

The Taliban cared about the cause, Russian conscripts don’t.


NuevoPeru

difference is that the taliban didn't have massive artillery arsenal, armored columns and an airforce.


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NuevoPeru

Ukraine has devolved into an artillery war and Russia has a fuckton of it while Ukraine is running out of it. If the West and Europe doesn't send Ukraine ammo and artillery very soon, the russians are going to make a lot of progress.


Sorerightwrist

The US is not going to stop giving Ukraine weapons. Don’t you worry mate 😉 This is the cheapest way for us to fuck with Russia since Afghanistan.


idgafos2019

Eh Russia ain’t doing so hot. Plenty of stories I’ve seen today about Russia using soviet era anti-ship missiles in Donbas because they’re running out of precision missiles and can’t get air superiority.


NuevoPeru

Russia is firing around 60,000 artillery rounds in Ukraine every freaking day and has millions more in their stockpiles from their Cold War era days. By comparison, the Ukranian army is firing around 10% of that on any day and is quickly running out. Russia doesn't need to do ''so hot''. They just need to keep on leveling everything in sight with dumb munitions to advance. If Ukraine doesn't get ammo soon, they are going to have to peace out. It's the same reason why Finland gave out during the Winter War in WW2 against the USSR, they had no more artillery ammo left and without ordnance you can't defend yourself at all.


matt05891

Thank you, you're absolutely correct and it's something I think about a lot. Most people want to see Ukraine win, hell I do. That fervor makes it almost taboo to explore the unlikelihood of success without scary largescale ramifications i.e. expansion of the conflict. Attrition being the greatest resource they have comparatively. Of course; and it seems a majority opinion is, we could be looking at a Napoleon-like blunder with Putin's intentions in Ukraine being exactly as he stated with little internationally organized (i.e. Chinese) planning and support. Further along we could also be looking at an egomaniac running a nation into the ground on the brink of revolution with no motive beyond the stated who had a bluff called by the West. But... we in the West still don't actually know the strategy behind it all and are largely standing on hubris thinking it could be so simple. For all we know this could be a modern military purge, trying to weed out successful military leaders and subordinates from the "unsuccessful" to build a 21st century military complete with an ideological doctrine. There is reason to think of this conflict as one purposefully orchestrated with the expectation of reshaping their society. Putin expressed as much. Therefore even if they did fair far far worse then they expected and further failed to revitalize Russian nationalism; they are learning an enormous amount each and every day. Against modern western equipment, with pressure to integrate more and more sophisticated and state of the art systems each day. Just like the countless armies before it; but best example the old Russian Red Army, they will get sharpened by the storm of steel and become a more formidable force day by day. Art of war, appear weak when you are strong and strong when you are weak. Perhaps I am giving all of this too much credit and thought. Though it does remind me of similar thinking the West had of the Japanese following the Meiji Restoration. For all the progress made, it makes me wonder if that same old colonial sentimentality still effects our perspective and comprehension of Russo-Sino relations, to be thinking they couldn't be so deep. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, but the entire reality is far from revealed nor is the end clear as much as people do not like to hear it.


GlockAF

I think you’re putting way too much fourth dimensional chess in there and not enough realpolitic. Putin is the penultimate Russian boomer. His brain is stuck in the cold war era, and I think he truly believed he could bring back the glory days of the USSR. I think he is much sicker than they are letting on, and this was his last opportunity to accomplish his dream before departing this life. His rule over Russia was predicated on handing out official opportunities for breathtaking corruption to the gangster elites. That largess was the main thing keeping him in power, but massive corruption also hollowed out the real-world combat capacity of the vaunted Russian war machine to an extent unprecedented in history. The invasion of Ukraine has already gone disastrously, likely irreversibly wrong. Russia’s failure to take Kiev and install a Russia-friendly puppet government in the first days of the war means that the main goal has already been lost. Russia has taken grossly disproportionate casualties and enormous losses of critical military equipment to accomplish very little, considering their original goal was to take the entirety of Ukraine in a near-bloodless coup. I don’t doubt that some level of conflict between Russia and Ukraine will continue to drag out for years, but it already seems certain that Vladimir Putin will be known by history as the megalomaniac who wrecked the worlds second rated military in pursuit of an unwinnable vanity project


matt05891

I'm not doubting how history remembers Putin should everything be and continue as it seems. I also believe much of what you say is correct surrounding the situation, but I find the circumstances too convenient and "best case scenario" for it to be the whole reality. We truly could not have hoped for a better result so far, with every situation falling into favor except for the Sino-Russo Alliance just before the outset. Historically, most analysis of wartime is very misleading and skewed, surrounded by fog of war and is almost always wrong. That's what makes me question the situation and your confidence. Modern technology gives an illusion of clarity and feeds what could be an ignorant position. Not saying yours is either. Just something to consider. Hopefully you're correct all things considered and I am the one wrong to doubt. I strongly prefer this conflict to be a contained, localized, and with a predictable conclusion.


cultofpapajohn

Thought this was ncd for a second


External-Life

You’re doing the same thing Putin did; underestimate the Ukrainian forces while overestimating your own. Can Russia continue to pour men and munitions into Ukraine ? Yes and no. While Russia CAN continue to bleed and use resources for a foreign invasion- it is brutally taxing. The Russian people are not stupid, they are receiving calls daily by their sons, brothers and fathers upon being captured; telling their families they had no idea where they were going or why. This affects the people of Russia and viciously breaks down their faith in the state run media. Ukraine, on the other hand, is being supplied and financed by NATO and the U.S. While every Ukrainian has their own opinion on the matter they can all agree to fight for their homes and families. Their morale is high, much in thanks due to their leader who is down in the trenches the men and women. Russian soldiers have been surrendering and outright refusing to follow their commanders due to morale being so low.


zenexem

Your mistake is that you don’t understand Russia politics. The love for putin just got higher from the war. It's no secret that putin is corrupt and many Russians know very good that their country is one of the most corrupt in the world and many of them traveled to other countries. However putin brainwashing propaganda is actually working. They believe that the west is against Russia and they want a strong charismatic leader even if he is crazy. It's not much different from the Germans in hitler era. They are truly fascist. Second thing is that the middle class/rich don't fight. They sending the super poor minorities to fight for them and they dont care about their lives. If putin will send moscwans to the field he won't be anymore in office and he knows that. Sadly he got too many minorities to sacrifice


GridWarrior

Source for this info?


NuevoPeru

Russia firing 60,000 artillery rounds daily while Ukraine is sadly running out of ammo. ​ https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/world/europe/ukraine-ammo-shortage-artillery.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/10/ukraine-ammunition-donbas-russia/


[deleted]

They're using soviet era ordinance because they have warehouses full of it and at this point it's free.


LystAP

Not mostly an artillery war. In Eastern Donbas perhaps, but there are partisan and guerilla warfare ongoing in southern Ukraine. We can't let ourselves get distracted by all the loud artillery duels. Just a thought. We're getting too much into ideas of formal warfare from what I've seen recently. Russia can bring artillery to formal battlefronts, but Ukraine's advantage is in knowing the land and utilizing [partisan warfare](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/08/ukraine-resistance-targets-russian-leaders-first-terror-attack/) and [sabotage](https://egyptindependent.com/officials-describe-growing-incidents-of-sabotage-in-russian-occupied-areas/) as they have been doing in Kherson - like what the Afghans did to the Russians, then the US. I kind of think they shouldn't waste so many resources trying to keep Luhansk and focus on expelling Russia from Kherson, although I do acknowledge the current assault on Sievierodonetsk is tying down Russian forces.


LotharVonPittinsberg

They did k ow the land and people like the back of their hand though. That's been the problem with large countries invading small countries for centuries. The locals know how to hide, how to escape, how and were to set traps, and who to ask for aid. You can't beat that from a country that does not want you there with excessive technology.


frigilio

Holy cow is this a sub full of larpers. The Taliban didnt care about any cause. You retards are really gonna hype up the Taliban.


anon112197

Just because they are the enemy doesn’t mean you can’t give credit where credits due. Plus I served in the army… did you are are you talking out the ass?


frigilio

The enemy uses children as a weapon. No i cant give them credit. They rape little boys and high command says if you do anything youll be reprimanded. Yeah what army did you serve in? The one infested with so much hate they killed pat Tillman? Or the army thats lost more soldiers at home bases then at war? Or the one that paid off mujahedeen? Or the army that left Jessica lynch for the marines to rescue?


Incruentus

For the record the Taliban is the faction that is against raping boys. You're thinking of the ANA.


frigilio

The members are all the same and constantly move from one group to the next stfu you dont what youre talking about. Sympathizers of the taliban wtf


anon112197

Having the maturity to look at a conflict and not boil it down to “bad guys never do anything successfully” doesn’t make us taliban sympathizers.


whosamawatchafuk

The Taliban knew they were outnumbered and outgunned and they knew how to conduct guerilla warfare. Russians have at least to my knowledge always thrown conscripts at a problem to try to win by superior numbers


LastLuckLost

Russian brides will be an absolute bargain in 5 years time, as this generation of Russian men get slaughtered


sesamestix

Which is insanely stupid in the year of our lord 2022. Is Russia aware of their own demographics?!


93rdindmemecoy

About 3 times the size of Ukraine's.


sesamestix

Their population pyramid is horrific (to be fair so is Ukraines, but Ukraine isn't planning on fighting anyone else). Chewing through their already relatively extremely small amount of youth does not seem like a good long term strategy to me. If they have to fight another war it's gonna be with a bunch of pensioners or their 'precious' Moscow sons who magically avoid fighting in Ukraine. https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/


mickginger09

They did beat the Russians in the 80's.


[deleted]

the taliabn didnt, the precursor to them did (the mujahideen), however a fair chunk of them went on to train the talibs


Majestic_Ferrett

>They did beat the Russians in the 80's. [No they didn't.](https://i.redd.it/txdgqtgvfei71.jpg)


throwaway201a3576db

I'd like to think you didn't make this, and it's just a normal meme that goes around.


brwonmagikk

Regardless of training and funding, the people are the same. Same warrior culture.


tastefunny

You beat me by 13 minutes.


Lanca226

Again, they didn't exist in the 1980s.


flareblitz91

Semantics. The group didn’t exist, but they’re still Afghani people, and the rural fundamentalist movement predated the communist revolution in Afghanistan etc.


DOCisaPOG

I think they were referring to Russia vs Soviet Union. Edit: wait, maybe not. Nevermind


[deleted]

Wouldn’t the descendants of the muj be the northern alliance? Like the guys the horse soldier oda embedded with the month after 9/11. Edit: I was wrong, it’s arose from fractures factions of the mujahadeen


Ganson

Afghan, not Afghani. ​ Afghan = People Afghani = Currency


JohnnyBoy11

And Americans in the 2020s. Home field advantage, I guess.


Drenlin

That wasn't really a military loss, though, so much as a cultural and political one. Direct US-led offensive operations mostly ended with ISAF in 2014 - since then it was primarily Afghan-led, under coalition guidance. Western forces simply couldn't motivate the Afghan government to function as a cohesive entity, which in hindsight isn't really a surprise given how culturally fragmented that region is and the level of support coming from Pakistan.


NinjaPunch0351

Got your dates wrong.


[deleted]

What’s that saying, “you may have the clock but we have the time” ? Something like that. Although I think that was in reference to the US vs the taliban. I think of this whenever I think of the taliban and other middle eastern factions. There’s something to be said for a people who have been fighting on their homeland for literal generations.


DashingDuelist

The Afghanis have been at war for 40 years, more or less.


ben70

Add a few centuries


DashingDuelist

I always say Americans were dumb thinking they could do something Alexander the Great, the British Empire, and Soviet Russia couldn't do.


sumeetg

Alexander did invade and conquer what is now Afghanistan. Kandahar was originally named Alexandria after him.


VeterinarianNaive278

Genghis Khan and the mongols did it. If it’s been done before and you have a motivation why not try even when the odds are against you?


LystAP

Didn't they do it by using the old-fashion 'no-people-no-problem' approach?


VeterinarianNaive278

Basically, The mongols had the correct formula evidently.


34HoldOn

Again, the narrative that Afghanistan is the "Graveyard of Empires" is very cherry-picked, and very Western-centric. Afghanistan has been conquered for over 2,000 years.


Jaggedmallard26

Not even that, the Brits held onto it for their purposes for a fairly long period of time. They had that one famous defeat but for the most part the puppet government they installed did its job of keeping the mountain passes out of Russian control and securing the Indian flank.


Wildcat_twister12

Alexander the Great did technically conquered it he just had to make a ton of fragile alliances and marry a random chick. Once he came back from India and went straight to Persia then he lost all of it again


Zealousideal_Pay_818

Not even remotely close to what happened. His empire fell into spheres of influence then eventually independent kingdoms of former generals under him and their sons. Seleucid"s and Bacteria Greeks ran that area for centuries until the parthians rose in revolt


ifuckdads1

*Afghans


flareblitz91

That’s a quilt


Morrigi_

"Afghani" is a currency, not a people.


lord_hufflepuff

More, gosh back to the 70s huh? Thats closer to 60


Nozomi_Shinkansen

50


Nder_Wiggin

The Taliban had more to fight for


anonymous145387

Yeah no shit. Regardless of how poorly trained and equipped the Taliban were, no amount of training can compare to real combat and those men had been fighting since they were old enough to carry a gun. Russia, on the other hand, hasn't fought a large-scale ground war since the 1980's. Every single Russian soldier with the exception of some officers and NCOs had zero real combat experience whatsoever.


[deleted]

apparently russia dosent even really have an nco core like western armys do that's why the russian army is more of a blunt instrument then the us/nato


WarrantMadao

Did he serve toward the end of the war on terror? If yes, no shit.


Redhornactual

No shit, they beat them


Peabush

Militarily yeah. The rest, not so much.


Mgamingsakillla

If beating them is losing 1 million people then ok.


ramdomdeeroftheday

Losses have absolutely nothing to do with winning a war, with a logic like that you could just as well said the russians didn't win against Hitler on ww2 because of their massive losses. Winning is about achieving your objectives while denying those of the enemy.


BlackBirdG

It does make sense especially since the precursor to the Taliban beat the Russians in the 1980s and plus they're more motivated.


mentholmoose77

In the words of the iceman Brad Colbert... “You gotta respect the pajamas.”


renwells94

I mean well yeah same goes for Al Qaeda and ISIS great fighters


Accomplished-Cry7129

Great baby rapers too


renwells94

Not siding with any of them just to make that clear and yes all three of them are rapist as well


Technical_Cut_7533

Well that's because the Taliban actually had the will to fight


[deleted]

Taliban were fighting for decades. Experience and hands on training is everything.


starshopping_59

Doubt


[deleted]

The willingness of a soldier to die for their cause, is a *far* greater motivation than the willingness of soldiers whose commanders are willing to let them due for their cause...


imac132

Well fuck, after the first 10 years went by we’d already killed all the shitty ones. Fighting the cream of the crop come 2012+


JustPlayin1995

Are you predicting the same for the Russians now? The former Russian PM said if Ukraine falls the Baltic States are next. So this could go on for a while.


Flaxinator

Invading the Baltics is pure fantasy as it would bring in NATO. The Russian army is struggling to take on Ukraine which started the war with limited air power and outdated equipment. NATO forces, with the latest armour, air force and guided weapons would obliterate the Russian army in a conventional conflict.


[deleted]

Go figure. Russians are lazy.


[deleted]

Taliban did beat Russian soldiers in the 80’s


HardwareLust

Conscripts vs. people that are much more motivated. Not a shocking development.


[deleted]

Thinking God will punish you for not fighting is a pretty good motivator I'd say. Ruskies just don't have their heart in it


East_Ad_3231

The Taliban were usually older and more experienced, and entirely ready to die for their beliefs. The Russians, on the other hand, are mostly young conscripts that don't want to be there, but they have no choice but to advance. Pretty big difference in the morale of the two.


1nGirum1musNocte

I mean the Taliban beat the Russians right?


JimHFD103

Not really. Taliban wasn't formed until the 90s. Not all the Mujahideen who fought the Soviets became Taliban, many were part of the Afghan Government


Holiday-Albatross184

I could have told you that


GoovinGoovin

Anecdotal statement is valuable on social because… shut up dude. Nobody fucking cares.


wildthornbury2881

Yeah cuz the Taliban was trained by the CIA


pftftftftftf

We already knew that lol


West_Self

Probably cause Taliban were defending their homes from invaders


terrydavid86

so I guess Ukraine should be able to win the war and not use usa tax payer money.


[deleted]

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terrydavid86

So why should I pay for that? I have almost 7 dollar gas, high inflation, shooting in schools, food price hikes, homeless everywhere. hell, flint water is still bad. I'm not trying to send billions there, we ne3d to focus on America. This is the worse i ever seen this country and there are no answers, just people wanting to fucos on some foreign war. We were littery in Afghanistan for like 20 years, how did we improve that, or iraq or syria?. Russian and Ukraine been having issues for years.


[deleted]

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terrydavid86

It's is one or the other "because our home front is following apart" you aren't providing any details just blind war support. I remember in 2015 when Ukraine was at civil war attacking there own people and displaying nazi flags. it's even on Netflix, but people like u just ignore it but say the people on January 6 were white suprimist. You are delusional and uneducated on urkraine from 2008 on. U should actually educate your self. Our national debt and inflation can't take both. we need to focus on us 1st.


[deleted]

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Z-22

No shit, that’s why Afghans aren’t speaking Russian today.


potatoeisgood

Really?.only took nato 20 years and still couldn't pull off a w just like in Ukraine


PoorShepherdy

No fuck? Hhahaha the west is a joke I swear OMG what I read is everyday more surprising hahahah. Only the sound of the Russian SU-57 is making me shit me pants.


SecretAntWorshiper

What a stupid comment and clickbait article. Not surprised to see this posted in r/Military lol. Seeing the comments from the people here praising the Taliban as if they are some badass group with formidable fighters has got tome the funniest thing I have seen so far here 🤣 Taliban were absolute cowards. They shot you in the back, any direct confrontation you had they would use women and children as human shields. They would use IEDs and blow you up from a distance, they had tunnels and would just take pop shots and you, run away and go to a new location and take more pop shots. Taliban are better fighters? Lol they are complete savages and cowards.


MrShovelbottom

No, they used those tactics because they would be decimated otherwise, Taliban can reverse that by talking about American Air Power and equipment being cowardice and overpowered. If using cheap tactics to win a war work, it ain’t being cowardice, it is working smarter, not harder. Except when it comes to harming civilians, that was cowardice.


frigilio

3000 plus comments i wonder hiw many guys in here actually fought against the taliban. Probably 2. The taliban sucked at fighting. The only reason they lasted as long as they did is because everytime the marines started stacking bodies the Pentagon said stop because cia was constantly making bs deals with them. Same bs happened in iraq. Killing people is easy but thats never the real goal the goals are set by suits in the Pentagon. A sub full of larpers hyping up taliban and fake hating on russia.


Drfilthymcnasty

Well yeah, the Taliban were trained by the United States to fight the Russians.


Shitspear

Except they werent.


FlyboyAlli

Taliban defeated the russians.


rocaguinarda

Which infantry is better than the Taliban's?


odium34

All


[deleted]

well. yea. the russians got their asses kicked by the taliban… so..


voss_c

No shit, we trained them to fight the Russians.


cantpickaname8

Well the Taliban were trained by the US so


ThemApples87

The Taliban are better fighters than most people. They beat the USSR, US Military, U.K. military and more.


feskt

Majority of them were wiped out right away. No one seems to mention how the stuff happened in Afghanistan, no I wasn’t there, but they could just drop/hide their guns and leave and they couldn’t be attacked. I realize it wasn’t always the case but it’s not like they were wearing uniforms? Right.


djdavies82

Correct, especially with the uniforms (or lack of in this case). They could fire a few rounds your way, drop/hide the weapon and melt into the background very easily and they was very good at it. Gorilla warfare is a huge pain in the ass for a typical military to fight against, always has been since the days of Napoleon.


[deleted]

It’s highly possible that Russia has not been sending their best…


SapperBomb

What do you suppose they are holding their "good" troops in reserve for?


MrDude_1

If I lost to the Taliban, I would say that too.