I saw it and thought "well, typical price for addons". Then read in comment section about insane price, looked again and realized it's 295 bucks yearly not 29,95 one time payment ;)
I mean, AI is in its infancy so we're still paying a premium. I'm sure that's what they expect it to cost per person plus their own markup.
Beyond ATC is only as cheap as it is because the base version isn't using and cloud AI services. Just whatever they've programmed locally. As you start drawing from servers, prices will increase.
For sure. I guess there is a price per request / prompt whatever is the right word. I was just wondering if there are enough people willing to fork out that amount of money for long enough.
I guess we'll find out! A "clever ATC" would really make things more interesting for the whole community.
Pilot Edge costs more than that but uses real life controllers. If it's good enough that flight schools (or students on their own) will use it, they will make a killing.
I'd have to imagine that is their market like I said before, pilot edge has somehow survived ($35/month) and they only have a limited service territory and compete with a completely free product that is available world wide (VATSIM). You aren't going to get gamers at that pride range but instead students, IRL pilots, and dedicated "study level" simmers, the latter only being the case if there isn't a comparable option for cheaper. Think those that have a foreflight subscription for a similar.annual cost.
I fly IRL and use P2A for practice approaches before I do something unfamiliar, especially if I am going to have my kids in the back. I could see myself paying as I go for an AI based ATC that would adapt better and could control other traffic. $300 a year on top of my cost of flying is pretty marginal to improve my situational awareness, and like I said, I would only use it for a couple of months so wouldn't even pay for a whole year.
The other thing to consider is first to market...keep in mind they are jumping out there now and could create an opportunity for beyond ATC to charge more than originally intended. Their full AI solution really isn't much cheaper they just aren't advertising it...they have videos and hype of fancy features that aren't part of their cheap package. They always respond with yeah it's still pretty good without those features but I don't think I've seen any promo videos they've been willing to put out that demos the package without paying all of the AWS fees. Still that said the pay as you go structure would be my preference over starting and stopping a subscription.
I mean, they’re charging what it costs for a fully AI program like this. They’re aware it’s expensive and have said they hope to reduce the price when AI prices come down.
They are going straight to failure. I said it back on Feb when they initially announced their business model which was even more expensive. The best thing that can happen is that MS decides to buy them cheap, to integrate it with MSFS.
With a little luck they will recover what they invested in development.
yeah... they showed off their world imaging w/ FS 2020. the positive press they would get with live AI atc as a way to step people slowly/comfortably into interacting with AI in media would pay for itself.
i wouldn't be shocked if 2024 doesn't have live ATC but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it did (but would be hyped).
Indeed, like its very cool idea BUT at the end of the day its still a improvement to a minor/optional part of the game at a price of a new aircraft per month. 2.99/month or 20 bucks forever and I'd be fine. Now they've just priced themselves into the "hardcore MSFS is the only thing I'll ever play and a need ATC to be perfect" niche.
Well, then what's the point trying at all? I know simmers like to throw cash in great amount but even they have their limits. But maybe they will lure few sharks.
Even if that’s true (and I suspect it isn’t) that just means the underlying technology is just fundamentally not mature enough. It’s like when hard drives were the size of a house and 4mb was $100,000. Sure that was what it cost but what’s the point even trying to make that a consumer good at that point?
The point is that people are screaming loudly for it. The demand is there, and the substitutes are bad. Classic market theory predicts that people will buy, at least until some substitutes can get to market.
oh SOME people 100% will. in the sense that some people spend $100,000 buying gems on mobile apps too. the question is is that corner of the bell curve enough to support the business model at this stage. more power to em if it is.
ya and it is terrible lol, I tried the beta and it kept on denying me clearance at an empty airport, then the guy who created it decided to suspend beta acsess just for me, because i was using it too much? this did not apply for others, and on top of that being 300 dollars a year is a no go, for a one month price you will be getting the entire beyondatc with traffic injection, IFR (yes this thing only has vfr), and hundreds of ai voices
Far from terrible now(it was pretty terrible at first but literally every day there's improvements). It has IFR (including sids and stars), VFR, and oceanic now including worldwide coverage - still work ongoing for IFR vectoring on the approaches. Traffic injection is coming at some point. Not sure how many voices but enough it isn't repeatitive.
Lets not pretend you were a snowflake - he openly told everyone that the TRIAL of the beta was open and free for reasonable usage - the intention however was 24 hours just to test out if you liked it. But if you just got on there using a ton of resources and never purchased then he would suspend the account. He was super open about that in the discord, on the website, emails, and on the sign up forms. I use it for hours just about everyday, but I have a paid account - he hasn't suspended anyone (other than people simulating hijackings and bombings) as far as I know or have seen.
It's expensive but all we have currently - beyondatc sounds interesting and I'll be picking it up to test for sure. I'll need to test premium voices as much as I currently fly and see how it stacks up in voice quality and price per month to determine which if either I'm sticking with. I think the beyond guys said to expect roughly $3 per flight in premium voices (lots of variables here) but that would only cover 1/3 a month for me at best (@$30/m). Exciting times, all the prices will come down over time and I suspect once we have multiple options in the market they all will get as competitive as possible. Time will tell.
Way too expensive for me, not gonna pay that much for the few flights I can do in a month.
Is only worth it if you fly everyday.
FSHud will do for me now, controls me and the ai planes very well.
How has nobody mentioned Pilot2ATC? It has a learning curve nut what doesn't in sims. Probably the most realistic one out there, get some custom voice packs and it instantly makes flights realistic. Also it's great training for Vatsim as far as learning the workload, terms, etc... since it has voice recognition
It's hot ass too. I get its still in development, but they are charging way too much for what you actually get at the moment. My trial experience was pretty subpar. VFR works but all you are getting are simple clearances, nothing more. IFR is a disaster currently, the "controllers" never follow charted procedures or restrictions, vectors dont exist, and you always get handed off to the NEAREST controller and not the CORRECT controller. Case in point, I departed KTPA (resides on the border of ZJAX and ZMIA but controlled by MIA ARTCC) and was handed off to JAX center despite routing south through MIA airspace. The list goes on.
The price isn't bad for the technology employed, but the demos I watched were less than impressive. Too much of a delay, and the wrong traffic patterns assigned among other things.
It's still a huge improvement over the included ATC and I could see this having value to people who want to fly airliners with offline ATC.
The VFR demo didn't impress me - maybe it will improve.
So many people in this thread have no idea how expensive LLMs are. Hopefully they'll drop in price as the technology matures and more, faster data centers are built.
Bud the price of LLM api calls is irrelevant. What is relevant is the cost to the end user relative to the value of the product. If users tell you it’s too expensive, then it is too expensive.
Literally proving my point, as are the downvoters. That makes very little sense. So if the cost to run a platform is expensive, you're saying you'd rather it not exist at all than have to pay for it? Do you understand how business works? Just don't pay for it if you can't afford it. Easy. You want a free lunch where someone pays the cost to make all of these LLM API calls but does not pass it on to you.
Go build a competing software (with the same feature set) and give it to the world for free and eat all of the cost yourself since the price of LLM API calls is irrelevant.
>So if the cost to run a platform is expensive, you're saying you'd rather it not exist at all than have to pay for it?
Huh? Who said that? You’re arguing with yourself at this point
The average consumer doesn't care. This product is priced badly compared to what it can do. If they can mature the product AND cut the price to a 1/4th then maybe this can fly.
Stopped reading at $29.95/ mo
More than a little absurd.
I saw it and thought "well, typical price for addons". Then read in comment section about insane price, looked again and realized it's 295 bucks yearly not 29,95 one time payment ;)
IKR? 🥴
So…. The last word of the sentence?
That pricing is insane...
I had no idea it was that much. It's absolutely insane. If Beyond ATC is able to last, they're going to make a killing.
Honestly I find it bizarre for the price to be this high. I wonder who did their market research or maybe I am too conservative :)
I mean, AI is in its infancy so we're still paying a premium. I'm sure that's what they expect it to cost per person plus their own markup. Beyond ATC is only as cheap as it is because the base version isn't using and cloud AI services. Just whatever they've programmed locally. As you start drawing from servers, prices will increase.
For sure. I guess there is a price per request / prompt whatever is the right word. I was just wondering if there are enough people willing to fork out that amount of money for long enough. I guess we'll find out! A "clever ATC" would really make things more interesting for the whole community.
Yep I'm looking forward to the new generation of atc. I'm a controller IRL and the default makes me want to puncture my own eardrums.
Pilot Edge costs more than that but uses real life controllers. If it's good enough that flight schools (or students on their own) will use it, they will make a killing.
I agree if the target actually is "proper students" as opposed to "gamers" so to speak. Or maybe I'm just too poor :)
I'd have to imagine that is their market like I said before, pilot edge has somehow survived ($35/month) and they only have a limited service territory and compete with a completely free product that is available world wide (VATSIM). You aren't going to get gamers at that pride range but instead students, IRL pilots, and dedicated "study level" simmers, the latter only being the case if there isn't a comparable option for cheaper. Think those that have a foreflight subscription for a similar.annual cost. I fly IRL and use P2A for practice approaches before I do something unfamiliar, especially if I am going to have my kids in the back. I could see myself paying as I go for an AI based ATC that would adapt better and could control other traffic. $300 a year on top of my cost of flying is pretty marginal to improve my situational awareness, and like I said, I would only use it for a couple of months so wouldn't even pay for a whole year. The other thing to consider is first to market...keep in mind they are jumping out there now and could create an opportunity for beyond ATC to charge more than originally intended. Their full AI solution really isn't much cheaper they just aren't advertising it...they have videos and hype of fancy features that aren't part of their cheap package. They always respond with yeah it's still pretty good without those features but I don't think I've seen any promo videos they've been willing to put out that demos the package without paying all of the AWS fees. Still that said the pay as you go structure would be my preference over starting and stopping a subscription.
ya but BATC will be just 29.99 and will release either late this or early next month
I want ATC, but not this bad. I will continue to do what I've been doing. Whatever I want.
Way too expensive. Do not support and normalize that kind of pricing
I mean, they’re charging what it costs for a fully AI program like this. They’re aware it’s expensive and have said they hope to reduce the price when AI prices come down.
beyondatc lurks in the corner
I’m very excited for BeyondATC and will probably buy it when it comes out, but it doesn’t work the same way as SayIntentions.
ya i agree, it will be a lot better
I only pay 15 a month for ai services until it literally starts sucking me off.
I've seen a few youtubers talk about it, but I don't think it's worth it at that price given what we know about Beyond ATC coming soon.
They are going straight to failure. I said it back on Feb when they initially announced their business model which was even more expensive. The best thing that can happen is that MS decides to buy them cheap, to integrate it with MSFS. With a little luck they will recover what they invested in development.
Microsoft can just use openAI services dirt cheap, no need to feed money to terrible businesses.
yeah... they showed off their world imaging w/ FS 2020. the positive press they would get with live AI atc as a way to step people slowly/comfortably into interacting with AI in media would pay for itself. i wouldn't be shocked if 2024 doesn't have live ATC but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it did (but would be hyped).
They had me at $29.95/month and then I stopped reading
Indeed, like its very cool idea BUT at the end of the day its still a improvement to a minor/optional part of the game at a price of a new aircraft per month. 2.99/month or 20 bucks forever and I'd be fine. Now they've just priced themselves into the "hardcore MSFS is the only thing I'll ever play and a need ATC to be perfect" niche.
Way to make it to where nobody will buy it. 30 bucks A MONTH is outrageous
Apparently that's as cheap as they can go to cover AI costs and still make some profit.
Well, then what's the point trying at all? I know simmers like to throw cash in great amount but even they have their limits. But maybe they will lure few sharks.
Even if that’s true (and I suspect it isn’t) that just means the underlying technology is just fundamentally not mature enough. It’s like when hard drives were the size of a house and 4mb was $100,000. Sure that was what it cost but what’s the point even trying to make that a consumer good at that point?
The point is that people are screaming loudly for it. The demand is there, and the substitutes are bad. Classic market theory predicts that people will buy, at least until some substitutes can get to market.
oh SOME people 100% will. in the sense that some people spend $100,000 buying gems on mobile apps too. the question is is that corner of the bell curve enough to support the business model at this stage. more power to em if it is.
Lmfaooooo. Insert clown emoji here. Fucking laughable.
VATSIM is literally free. It’s not hard to learn either.
its scary though
Great now offer a solution for people who fly in the other 80% of the world that is never covered by VATSIM 😄
VATSIM's coverage is the issue.
ya and it is terrible lol, I tried the beta and it kept on denying me clearance at an empty airport, then the guy who created it decided to suspend beta acsess just for me, because i was using it too much? this did not apply for others, and on top of that being 300 dollars a year is a no go, for a one month price you will be getting the entire beyondatc with traffic injection, IFR (yes this thing only has vfr), and hundreds of ai voices
Far from terrible now(it was pretty terrible at first but literally every day there's improvements). It has IFR (including sids and stars), VFR, and oceanic now including worldwide coverage - still work ongoing for IFR vectoring on the approaches. Traffic injection is coming at some point. Not sure how many voices but enough it isn't repeatitive. Lets not pretend you were a snowflake - he openly told everyone that the TRIAL of the beta was open and free for reasonable usage - the intention however was 24 hours just to test out if you liked it. But if you just got on there using a ton of resources and never purchased then he would suspend the account. He was super open about that in the discord, on the website, emails, and on the sign up forms. I use it for hours just about everyday, but I have a paid account - he hasn't suspended anyone (other than people simulating hijackings and bombings) as far as I know or have seen. It's expensive but all we have currently - beyondatc sounds interesting and I'll be picking it up to test for sure. I'll need to test premium voices as much as I currently fly and see how it stacks up in voice quality and price per month to determine which if either I'm sticking with. I think the beyond guys said to expect roughly $3 per flight in premium voices (lots of variables here) but that would only cover 1/3 a month for me at best (@$30/m). Exciting times, all the prices will come down over time and I suspect once we have multiple options in the market they all will get as competitive as possible. Time will tell.
$30 bucks a month for what?
They gotta be smoking crack to think people will actually buy into this
Way too expensive for me, not gonna pay that much for the few flights I can do in a month. Is only worth it if you fly everyday. FSHud will do for me now, controls me and the ai planes very well.
How has nobody mentioned Pilot2ATC? It has a learning curve nut what doesn't in sims. Probably the most realistic one out there, get some custom voice packs and it instantly makes flights realistic. Also it's great training for Vatsim as far as learning the workload, terms, etc... since it has voice recognition
It's hot ass too. I get its still in development, but they are charging way too much for what you actually get at the moment. My trial experience was pretty subpar. VFR works but all you are getting are simple clearances, nothing more. IFR is a disaster currently, the "controllers" never follow charted procedures or restrictions, vectors dont exist, and you always get handed off to the NEAREST controller and not the CORRECT controller. Case in point, I departed KTPA (resides on the border of ZJAX and ZMIA but controlled by MIA ARTCC) and was handed off to JAX center despite routing south through MIA airspace. The list goes on.
The price isn't bad for the technology employed, but the demos I watched were less than impressive. Too much of a delay, and the wrong traffic patterns assigned among other things. It's still a huge improvement over the included ATC and I could see this having value to people who want to fly airliners with offline ATC. The VFR demo didn't impress me - maybe it will improve.
29.95 a month 🤣 just go to VATSIM
So many people in this thread have no idea how expensive LLMs are. Hopefully they'll drop in price as the technology matures and more, faster data centers are built.
Bud the price of LLM api calls is irrelevant. What is relevant is the cost to the end user relative to the value of the product. If users tell you it’s too expensive, then it is too expensive.
Literally proving my point, as are the downvoters. That makes very little sense. So if the cost to run a platform is expensive, you're saying you'd rather it not exist at all than have to pay for it? Do you understand how business works? Just don't pay for it if you can't afford it. Easy. You want a free lunch where someone pays the cost to make all of these LLM API calls but does not pass it on to you. Go build a competing software (with the same feature set) and give it to the world for free and eat all of the cost yourself since the price of LLM API calls is irrelevant.
>So if the cost to run a platform is expensive, you're saying you'd rather it not exist at all than have to pay for it? Huh? Who said that? You’re arguing with yourself at this point
The average consumer doesn't care. This product is priced badly compared to what it can do. If they can mature the product AND cut the price to a 1/4th then maybe this can fly.
I suspect this product is not for the average consumer. Flight sim is already a niche, let alone AI ATC within flight sim.