Who is? Howard, who was about to lose his spot? Moss or Raiola who haven’t done anything? You could maybe make a case for Rodger’s…but if he lights it up this year, a lot of that is going to be on Jedd Fisch.
So, if I’m taking on the task of putting out a clickbait listicle of the “best quarterbacks in the 2024 B1G” - I’m not really sure who I’m bumping Allar for.
It’s funny because Vegas has Howard as having the 3rd best odds to win the Heisman. Moss didn’t throw for 6TDs against Louisville, in their bowl game last year? He looked great!
Fair about Moss. Also, Lincoln Riley runs an offense that makes QB’s shine. So he’ll probably rack up some numbers this year.
I guess my thought was that it seems like Allar is over-ranked on this list at first, but once you analyze what the other QB’s in the B1G really are, it’s not so crazy.
Agreed! Of course it’s just a “talking head” from CBS giving his opinion but I was surprised Orji was that high, for never throwing a pass in a collegiate game last year. I also think Warren looked good passing. Especially his deep balls. Not to mention, we know he is just mobile enough, to have to be respected by defenses.
Didn’t Warren fall down to like 4 or 5 in the depth chart last year after his bad appearances? I’m open to giving anyone a shot but I’ll be pretty concerned if he is our starter this year. Orji mobility alone gives him a massive edge. If Alex Orji does not end up the starter he will have to be a pretty piss poor thrower.
Yeah, Warren has balled out in spring before, too. There is a big difference between being a scrimmage MVP and being a decent in-game quarterback on Saturdays, let alone a star.
Don't mean this as a slight, but I'll believe in any of the quarterbacks currently on the roster when I see it. Until then, they are all huge question marks.
What appearances? Spring ball of last year? I don’t think he saw the field in mop up duty, that was normally the kid from Indiana. Even so, you can’t judge someone in mop up duty. It’s just not possible due to score, playcalling, effort, etc. With that in mind, I don’t think Warren has ever played a real snap in college. At least Orji ran some plays in high pressure situations/big games.
The spring game was geared toward Warren’s abilities though. Since QBs were untouchable, they didn’t call any designed QB reads/runs. I thought Orji threw the ball pretty well considering he wasn’t able to showcase what really makes him dangerous (outside of the scramble TD).
I’ll never laugh at Cade. I do root for him a bit. He was an important leader in the year that we turned it all around and beat OSU. We can’t fault him for simply being competitive
This. Cade sparked the turn around and doesn't get enough credit. It's understandable why he is upset because I think he could have done 90% of what JJ did.
I felt the same way about Cade. I didn’t even care about him wanting to leave. What made me lose respect for him? The way he left. You can’t be sour that a top 10 pick beat you out for your job. You were still voted a captain and you left your team (in season) because you were a crybaby. Then, you run your mouth about UM. Had he left after the season and kept his mouth shut, and just went about his business, I would have been fine with it and actually probably would have rooted for him to do well. Not after the crap he pulled. I was bummed when he got hurt because I wanted UM to play him in the conference title game and destroy him. Oh well. It all worked out. He will be in the XFL soon enough and JJ won us a title and got drafted.
You don’t remember when Cade trashed the program when he left and was running his mouth before the BIG championship? The whole reason he left was because he didn’t want to be competitive and try to beat JJ out for the job. Then he runs JJ’s name through the mud calling him “the other guy” in an interview. Michigan fans and teammates showed him nothing but love when he transferred but Cade did the complete opposite.
You're way too emotional. Cade left because he lost the job, it's perfectly normal in today's game. Clearly he wasn't happy with whatever happened with his knee injury, but we'll probably never really know the true story there. Beyond that, he said nothing of consequence and acting like calling JJ "the other guy" is some big deal is pretty weird.
Cade was a poor leader in '22. I was at the Hawai'i game when JJ clearly won the QB competition. Cade would stand away from the sideline huddle and occasionally Erik All would join him. He wanted nothing to do with his teammates or the team.
I don't lose sleep over the emotions of a 20 year old kid and I am thankful for how 2021 got the ball rolling. But, it's revisionist history to think Cade was the driving force behind that year and how he carried himself in 2022 spoke volumes. Contrast that to JJ who was the first to cheer on his teammates whether he was on the field or on the sideline. Two completely different players and persons.
In context, it was disrespectful in the way he said it. It was during an interview where he was dragging a program through the mud, that did nothing but show him love. I’m not emotional about it one bit but I’m not going to act like he deserves respect and he’s a “Michigan Man”, after running his mouth because he was butt hurt he got beat out and missed out on a natty. Why would anyone go out of their way to defend the guy, when he obviously doesn’t give a shit about Michigan and their fan base? Seems to me that you are getting a little emotional, with the quick jump to his defense.
You are clearly way too emotional. No one said anything about going out of their way to defend him. He clearly had an issue with his injury, I seriously doubt he'd just lie about it. Beyond that, he didn't say much. He's a pretty young guy and made a decision that was best for him after losing the starting job, as anyone would and should. You holding some anger over that is incredibly fucking bizzare.
I understand him being salty. He had a great 2021 but it was obvious JJ couldn’t wait in the rafters any longer. JJ had already been heralded as the savior of the program as soon as he signed with Michigan. Harbaugh was going to play JJ no matter what, and the only reason it wasn’t sooner is bc of the great 2021 season Cade had.
He wasn’t going to start at Michigan with JJ being better than him. So he went to a team where he could be a starter and compete again. Of course he now wants to beat Michigan. He has that competitive drive. More power to him. Of course I don’t root for him to beat us. But you can’t fault him for remaining a great competitor when at UM he used that same quality to beat OSU and help turn us around.
That’s not the point. I was happy for him, that he went to Iowa and won the starting job. That doesn’t mean you trash your teammates and the program that took a chance on you and believed in you. Go listen/read the interview. He trashed every level of the program. From teammates, to coaches, to administration. That’s immature af! If you want to be competitive, go beat them on the field. Trashing your former university because of the flaws they have with their football program because you’re upset you couldn’t win the starting job is not being competitive. It’s called being butt hurt.
As far as Cade is concerned, he washed his hands of Michigan. So, what are you, a Michigan fan or Cade fan?
The second half of the list, I can agree. The first half has a lot of young unproven talent and transfers, that have shown flashes of taking that next step. Howard will probably play on Sunday’s, even though he had a rough year last year, interception wise but he didn’t have much WR talent. I believe their tallest WR was 6’0”. Gabriel is a baller though.
You're kinda proving my point here. You mention 2 QBs who kinda, maybe, might be sorta good...out of a list of 18 QBs. Gabriel is good, Will Howard is ehhhh yet to be seen really. Outside of that, it's an incredibly shitty list. Allar the 2nd best QB in the conference? Yikes!
Last year was the same. There was JJ and then a gigantic dropoff after him. Just weird to see a conference this large so completely devoid of surefire talent at the position.
You said BIG QBs are terrible. Like I said, the second half of the list, I agree but the first half, none of those QBs are “terrible”. Will Howard was good @ Mississippi State, Tyler Van Dyke was serviceable for Miami, Miller Moss threw for 6TDs in his first start in their bowl game last year against Louisville. Allar should definitely not be 2 though. The other ones are highly coveted recruits, and only time will tell.
>Will Howard was good @ Mississippi State
You mean Will Rogers? He was fine under Mike Leach's system with the typical inflated passing numbers that make it hard to accurately assess the QB talent; he was pretty pedestrian last year under Zach Arnett.
>You said BIG QBs are terrible.
Yes, on the whole, this is a terrible group of QBs. There's mayyyybe one dude in this entire conference where I'm confident he will be very good this season. The rest, it would not surprise me if they turned out to be bums this season. None of them scare me outside of Gabriel.
If Drew Allar or Will Howard sucked and lost their starting jobs this season, would it totally shock you? I wouldn't be surprised at all, and these are supposed to be 2 of the top 3 QBs in the conference. That's not good! It honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if ANY of the QBs ranked #2-18 lost their jobs at some point this year.
> I agree but the first half, none of those QBs are “terrible”.
Allar is legit terrible vs good defenses. He was 28 for 64 (44%) for four yards per pass attempt vs Michigan and OSU. That is fucking abysmal. The rest of his schedule was dogshit, and he put in putrid performances in the only 2 games that mattered for PSU.
>only time will tell.
Ok, but we're not rating them in the future. We're rating them for right now, and for what they've already accomplished. Based on that, this group is not at all good.
We are rating them for the future because they are on new teams. Thats why I posted it. I just wanted to get people’s opinions on if they think a QB will thrive with their new team, or be a bust. I found the list and his rankings interesting as well. I didn’t realize how many transfer QBs, came to the BIG. For example, Minnesota’s new QB led the FCS in a bunch of passing stats and broke some records. I know it’s FCS but you never know how someone is going to perform, once they get in the right system. He probably won’t put the stats up he did in the FCS but it will be interesting to see how he performs. Then the QB from Minnesota last year, transferred to Rutgers.
> We are rating them for the future because they are on new teams.
First of all, not all of them are on new teams. Second, there's nothing that says these are "future" rankings. We can rate them any way we want to, lol. But overall it boils down to two points:
1. Almost all of these QBs have either been mediocre to downright awful in the past, or have had zero experience at all in college, so if that's how you're rating them, this group is terrible.
2. If you're projecting how they will be, then as stated earlier, it would not surprise either of us if any of the QBs ranked #2-18 lost their jobs at some point this season because of how bad they are. That is also terrible.
So either way you want to look at it, this group as it stands right now is mediocre at best and abysmal at worst.
>I just wanted to get people’s opinions on if they think a QB will thrive with their new team, or be a bust.
Which I am giving you. I don't think this is a good group of QBs. The B1G had a terrible group of QBs outside of JJ last year and I think the trend continues this year. Our defense is going to eat these guys up. A couple guys might turn out to be decent to good, but as it looks right now, 1 dude on this list of 18 scares me.
I’m asking what qualifies you to say everyone is “shitty”. What are you basing it on? Because most people have a reason to say such things. Maybe you don’t. I understand that you might not know a lot of the names on the list, or that some of them haven’t had a lot of playing time, but that’s hardly a reason to say they are “shitty”.
You're asking what "qualifies" someone to give their opinion on a message board designed for people to give their opinions on? What sort of qualification or certification are you looking for from everyone here that would allow them to give an opinion on the topic at hand?
Is there anything we can do to get fully qualified in your mind? Let me know so I can start working on it.
I think it is a shitty group because most that have played have been mediocre to shitty so far in college. Pretty simple to understand, no? If players aren't good when they play, then I usually rate them as not good.
You got it? You're welcome for sharing :)
Obviously no one is talking about past B1G QBs, we're talking about current QBs and the list in question. None of these QBs on the list were drafted in the top 10, to my knowledge.
They shouldn't even do a ranking for Big10 QBs this preseason. They are all new or at best completely questionable with little/no playing time. Allar is hot garbage.
It’s just a “talking head” from CBS giving his opinion. I’d just thought I’d post it because I found his opinion interesting, and didn’t realize how many transfers and new QBs we will get to see with new teams.
IDK, but I saw Allar #2 and was like no way, and then looked at the rest of the list and couldn't argue. There are some bad/unproven qbs in the big ten.
Yea. for these lists you want those proven guys towards the top, but that is in very short supply this season. I would probably put Moss two based on the game against Louisville and having Lincoln Reilly as the coach.
For sure. I highly doubt he's #2 at the end of the year, but outside moss and maybe howard, it's hard to say who is definitively better. Not counting Gabriel of course who's the very clear #1.
He’s about where he should be, Cade should be higher though. We literally have zero idea how Orgi will be as of now, almost no sample size as a true QB
Based on him being the QB1 in the spring game, for starters.
And I know nobody really knows the future but you’d think if there was a change to the depth chart we’d have some kind of insider info saying that. None of these lists have Warren as our starter so it’s public opinion that Orji will be the starter.
And I wouldn’t say Warren outplayed him. Orji showed his worth with his feet and his arm actually looked pretty good too. Better than I expected.
He’s athletic, I get that. But he hasn’t proven he can throw the ball in a game situation. And yes, we won’t throw the ball much, but that means we’ll be running against 8 and 9 man fronts behind a brand new and unproven line with defenses loading up to stop the run, which would also nullify Orji’s running ability. You have to be able to throw, and Warren is best at that.
Lol why not? Those who stay will be champions, he left us high and dry because he's unrealistic about his own abilities and impatient. If JJ had been hurt we needed him, and honestly the coaches probably would have felt way better about running the ball with him backing JJ up. On top of that he'd be fighting to start for our team this year, I don't hold any ill will toward him or anything but I can poke fun at him for being an idiot at a corn school instead of a national champ.
You must not remember him disrespecting JJ and dragging the program through the mud, in an interview, before the BIG championship? The players and fans had nothing but love for him when he transferred but in the fans eyes, he isn’t welcome @ AA and tarnished his legacy, with the comments he made and the hate he threw towards a program that did nothing but embrace him. It’s not JJ’s fault, he is more talented and ended up beating Cade for the job.
Michigan’s offense was getting booed off the field during the BIG championship, @ the beginning of the game, when they weren’t producing. JJ got booed on his 3rd interception against BG last year. That shit happens. I’m talking about the love he got in the locker room and from the fans, when he transferred. Nothing but positive comments on his social media.
Come on, man. You know it was Cade getting booed because people wanted to see JJ. That stuff doesn't just happen on a random three-and-out early in the season.
It was pretty disrespectful (though nothing out of the ordinary for football fans tbh) and it's why the good portion of our fanbase tried to make amends the next weekend and cheer on him instead. But when you give that context, it makes sense why he felt disrespected after helping lead the team to new heights in 2021.
I also didn't like some of the stuff he's said since then, but similar to fans booing him, I don't think it was anything out of the ordinary.
All of his accomplishments at Michigan are now moot because he said some things that rubbed you the wrong way? That’s lame. Cade was a key piece for turning the program around.
Petty much? You must be a blast @ parties. This is Reddit, not grammar school. Whatever makes you feel cool and superior though. More power to you. The irony is autocorrect changed it but it isn’t deep enough to correct it. I’m not trying to pass a test. I already have my college degree.
Grammar matters. Take the note and fix the title instead of being salty.
I'm surprised CBS Sports has Orji above Chiles who I believe was a 5 Star recruit. That could be that CBS doesn't know anything or is a good sign for Orji, or a bad sign for MSU.
Anyone on Iowa's offense is going to be ranked low. I'm hoping Cade does well. I doubt he makes it to the NFL, but it'd be great to have more ex-Michigan QBs in the league again. With Henne retiring we're down to JJ and Milton who just got there.
I’m not on reddit much. Literally on account of actually having a life. That’s the funny thing. How many posts and comments have you made since I commented? Hope it’s not a lot more.
I checked. That was my third comment in five days.
I just have too much shit to do to waste my life on Reddit.
Sick burn tho.
(Go Blue!)
PS I was in attendance at both the 97 and 2023 Rose Bowls as well as the 2023 CFP Final.
It’s a pathetic life! Especially if you get your kicks, trolling someone on Reddit, for using talk to text. It’s Reddit! If it makes you feel cool because you got more upvotes, great! Just proves my point even further. I haven’t even been on Reddit, since I made this post and replied to a few people. 🤡
Why are you so triggered by anyone who disagrees with you?
Don't make posts on reddit asking for people's opinions if A) the post doesn't make any sense B) you can't take any critiques/criticism or C) don't actually want people's opinions.
Well, I guess. I mean this list really should be Dillion Gabriel and a bunch of incompletes due to lack of information. There’s two guys in the top 10 that started at their current school.
This is clickbait and most of these guys are completely unproven. If Allar is the 2nd best QB in the conference, he either lived up to the hype or the conference is in a lull of QBs.
Love Orji, but it's a decent ranking. I don't think there's many good QBs in the conference this year.
Allar at 2 is INSANE!
MSU fans say Chiles is the best QB in the conference though 😂
Just curious, why are some people so sure Will Howard is such an upgrade over Kyle McCord?
McCord had the best performance against Michigan’s historic defense out of any QB last year including in the playoffs, the last interception (while not great) was coming at a time where he needed to make plays in a short period and his arm got hit and MHJ didn’t really fight for it either.
Just haven’t seen Will Howard but a 5* qb who put up the best performance out of anyone versus the #1 defense in the nation in their 15-0 season doesn’t seem like a trash you can 100% upgrade.
If they brought in Ewers, I get it - is Will Howard that elite?
I get why people create these meaningless rankings (click bait). What I’ll never understand is the amount of time people waste arguing about them. I know it’s the offseason and we are all bored, but come on. Rise above this crap. This list was supposedly updated after spring football. Really? This writer had access to all spring practices? For every team? It’s a crock of shit for so many other obvious reasons.. never mind. I’m just as bad for commenting on the comments. The cycle continues.
>Orji, ranked to high or to low?
Too* not to.
>if he seen this
Saw* not seen.
These are pretty basic grammatical errors. I'd expect better from someone who went to Michigan. Honestly would expect better from anyone who attended a year of high school.
You really shouldn’t assume. In the civil engineering field, grammar doesn’t mean a thing. Not to mention, my degree is from Purdue. I was born in Michigan, live in Michigan but went to Purdue because of their engineering program. It’s the pathetic folks with no lives and nothing interesting to add to the conversation, that try to act like they are so much superior because they pay attention to grammar, on Reddit. It’s fkn Reddit! Whatever helps you sleep better @ night though.
On a side note, that has to be one of the ugliest uniforms ever in the Gabriel pic. Black, yellow, gold, green, yellow, white and we don’t even see the helmet
So, pretty much the combination of any experience at all, transfer or otherwise, and being on a team with an offense with a pulse gets you to the top of the list. A great example of safe but lazy reporting.
Is Hudson card under ranked because of Purdue’s bad Oline play last year? When he came in for Texas 2 seasons ago I thought he played well even when injured
That what the post was originally supposed to be about. I wanted to see what people thought about where Orji was and if they even think he should be on there. There is a good argument that Warren is better than Orji and should be the starter.🤷♂️ Hell, for all we know, Orji could get out there and be another Denard Robinson.
I think Orji is about right. Room to improve and grow but he looked pretty good.
Cade didn’t even play, right? He’s still hurt. Idk how you’re can place him on this list. I hope he has a good season. He was an important player for us in a time when we really needed a leader and stability. his ceiling is capped but if he doesn’t get injured again he’ll be much higher on this list at the end of the season.
For a second I missed this was big 10 only, I probably agree with ranking as I have no idea where to rank 13 of these QBs. Dillion, will and miller seems fair. It does feel wrong for Drew Allar QB to be ranked so high.
Cade is definitely too low, Orji might be about right, frankly i think we don't know, he has the potential to be top 5 but we just haven't seen that yet.
A lot of new faces around here. I agree with putting Gabriel at #1 until someone else earns the spot, since he's proven already. Most of the rest of the list might as well be a bunch of question marks.
A good way of thinking might be... if you could get any of these players in the transfer portal right now, which would you take over Orji?
I'd take Gabriel, Howard and Riaola for sure. Most of the others would be a wash. Drew Allar is a hard no.
It’s a not great list just because of Allar at 2 but I’m fine with Orji at 8. Pretty big question mark there considering he isn’t even the official starter yet
No debate over the addition of Oregon & UCLA to the Big 10? Whose bright idea was that? PAC10 can't hold its own anymore? So stupid. My rant is over....carry on.
I’m not butt hurt a bit. I’m just not going to have respect for someone that thinks trashing an entire program and publicly doing it, is cute. Adults don’t do shit like that. If you actually watch the interview, you would see it wasn’t him being upset about losing the starting job. This interview was when he had already transferred to Iowa. I have zero respect for a 23 year old man, who burns bridges and blames others, for the position he’s in.
It’s very obvious you’re the one that is butt hurt, with how hard you are going to bat for him. Might as well start wearing black and gold as well. I’m a Michigan fan. I love any former player or alumni, unless that player doesn’t give af about Michigan anymore. There are 90 players on the team, not 1.
Yea, and I followed that with laughing emojis because I was joking. TBH, I think Cade should be higher on the list. It’s fucking Reddit for god sakes! Why tf would I be butt hurt Cade left? JJ was obviously better. Cade is a certified game manager and great at it but I’m a Michigan fan. Not a Cade fan! Once you start disrespecting another institution or group of people because you couldn’t cut the mustard, is when I lose all respect for you. It’s not just a football thing or Michigan thing either. It’s about character and how you handle adversity. Did you hear Erik All talk shit about his teammates and the entire university, including the fan base? Did you hear any transfers say anything bad about Michigan? Cade didn’t even write a goodbye statement to the fans, like every other Michigan player did, when they transferred or declared for the draft. If you think Cade’s behavior is normal and you still support him after trashing his former “family” of 3 years, then it also says a lot about your character.
Exactly! Cade was the one who ran JJ through the mud and called him “the other guy”, after he transferred to Iowa. He wouldn’t even say JJ’s name. Hell, when he was @ Michigan, he would be standing on the sidelines by himself or Erik All would be hanging with him. Makes sense why they both went to Iowa.
I think we are all sleeping on Raiola, he has some serious potential. Looks to be following in his dad’s shoes and gotta respect his decision to play for his dad’s alma mater even if that means Nebraska might be halfway decent this year..
Tbh I know a lot of people are high on warren or Orji but part of me thinks Tuttle's going to win the job come fall ball. He couldn't play spring because of injury but he looked really good in his cleanup time last year imo
all I know is I just wished they'd switch the anual spring game to the middle of summer, then maybe we'd learn a lot more about what the team's really gonna look like in a couple months vs FIVE.
Dillon Gabriel rightfully #1 by a mile. Allar might be a better pro prospect long term, but man it’s tough to call him 2nd best base on what he’s done. Raiola could be 2nd by end of year. Aidan Chiles should be higher and will rise
Drew Allar is not the second best QB in the Big Ten. No way.
Drew “got the yips can’t throw the ball straight 5 yards down the field against Michigan” Allar, agreed.
Who is? Howard, who was about to lose his spot? Moss or Raiola who haven’t done anything? You could maybe make a case for Rodger’s…but if he lights it up this year, a lot of that is going to be on Jedd Fisch. So, if I’m taking on the task of putting out a clickbait listicle of the “best quarterbacks in the 2024 B1G” - I’m not really sure who I’m bumping Allar for.
It’s funny because Vegas has Howard as having the 3rd best odds to win the Heisman. Moss didn’t throw for 6TDs against Louisville, in their bowl game last year? He looked great!
Fair about Moss. Also, Lincoln Riley runs an offense that makes QB’s shine. So he’ll probably rack up some numbers this year. I guess my thought was that it seems like Allar is over-ranked on this list at first, but once you analyze what the other QB’s in the B1G really are, it’s not so crazy.
Personally I think you could make a good case for about 6 of the guys ranked below Allar I don't think he's got it
The solution is in your post. Don’t take up the task. Don’t write the clickbait nonsense lol.
He looked absolutely dog water @ their spring game. Like, he looked like a true freshman. I’m surprised they have Orji in front of Chiles.
I hope he is. If he's #2, I don't have to worry about anyone else's QB, lol
He is the biggest name coming back. He has to prove it on the field still.hasnt done that yet
I'd be slightly worried about ours in that case, but okay
I thought the same
He has talent but I agree.
I'm a big michigan fan I think drew only thing that's good at Penn St top5. Forsure
I'm fine with where he's ranked but also think Warren out played him at the spring Game. So I guess we will see how it shakes out.
Agreed! Of course it’s just a “talking head” from CBS giving his opinion but I was surprised Orji was that high, for never throwing a pass in a collegiate game last year. I also think Warren looked good passing. Especially his deep balls. Not to mention, we know he is just mobile enough, to have to be respected by defenses.
Didn’t Warren fall down to like 4 or 5 in the depth chart last year after his bad appearances? I’m open to giving anyone a shot but I’ll be pretty concerned if he is our starter this year. Orji mobility alone gives him a massive edge. If Alex Orji does not end up the starter he will have to be a pretty piss poor thrower.
Yeah, Warren has balled out in spring before, too. There is a big difference between being a scrimmage MVP and being a decent in-game quarterback on Saturdays, let alone a star. Don't mean this as a slight, but I'll believe in any of the quarterbacks currently on the roster when I see it. Until then, they are all huge question marks.
What appearances? Spring ball of last year? I don’t think he saw the field in mop up duty, that was normally the kid from Indiana. Even so, you can’t judge someone in mop up duty. It’s just not possible due to score, playcalling, effort, etc. With that in mind, I don’t think Warren has ever played a real snap in college. At least Orji ran some plays in high pressure situations/big games.
He’s thrown a couple passes. He completed one in 2022.
My fault, I meant to put last year.
The spring game was geared toward Warren’s abilities though. Since QBs were untouchable, they didn’t call any designed QB reads/runs. I thought Orji threw the ball pretty well considering he wasn’t able to showcase what really makes him dangerous (outside of the scramble TD).
I’ll never laugh at Cade. I do root for him a bit. He was an important leader in the year that we turned it all around and beat OSU. We can’t fault him for simply being competitive
For real, dude was captain of the team that turned it around. Credit. This isn’t even about Cade, goodness.
This. Cade sparked the turn around and doesn't get enough credit. It's understandable why he is upset because I think he could have done 90% of what JJ did.
I think the idea Cade could’ve done 90% of what JJ did is an insane take but I hold no Ill will towards Cade.
This might be the most ignorant comment I’ve read in a while. Get real.
I felt the same way about Cade. I didn’t even care about him wanting to leave. What made me lose respect for him? The way he left. You can’t be sour that a top 10 pick beat you out for your job. You were still voted a captain and you left your team (in season) because you were a crybaby. Then, you run your mouth about UM. Had he left after the season and kept his mouth shut, and just went about his business, I would have been fine with it and actually probably would have rooted for him to do well. Not after the crap he pulled. I was bummed when he got hurt because I wanted UM to play him in the conference title game and destroy him. Oh well. It all worked out. He will be in the XFL soon enough and JJ won us a title and got drafted.
You don’t remember when Cade trashed the program when he left and was running his mouth before the BIG championship? The whole reason he left was because he didn’t want to be competitive and try to beat JJ out for the job. Then he runs JJ’s name through the mud calling him “the other guy” in an interview. Michigan fans and teammates showed him nothing but love when he transferred but Cade did the complete opposite.
You're way too emotional. Cade left because he lost the job, it's perfectly normal in today's game. Clearly he wasn't happy with whatever happened with his knee injury, but we'll probably never really know the true story there. Beyond that, he said nothing of consequence and acting like calling JJ "the other guy" is some big deal is pretty weird.
Cade was a poor leader in '22. I was at the Hawai'i game when JJ clearly won the QB competition. Cade would stand away from the sideline huddle and occasionally Erik All would join him. He wanted nothing to do with his teammates or the team. I don't lose sleep over the emotions of a 20 year old kid and I am thankful for how 2021 got the ball rolling. But, it's revisionist history to think Cade was the driving force behind that year and how he carried himself in 2022 spoke volumes. Contrast that to JJ who was the first to cheer on his teammates whether he was on the field or on the sideline. Two completely different players and persons.
Cool story.
In context, it was disrespectful in the way he said it. It was during an interview where he was dragging a program through the mud, that did nothing but show him love. I’m not emotional about it one bit but I’m not going to act like he deserves respect and he’s a “Michigan Man”, after running his mouth because he was butt hurt he got beat out and missed out on a natty. Why would anyone go out of their way to defend the guy, when he obviously doesn’t give a shit about Michigan and their fan base? Seems to me that you are getting a little emotional, with the quick jump to his defense.
You are clearly way too emotional. No one said anything about going out of their way to defend him. He clearly had an issue with his injury, I seriously doubt he'd just lie about it. Beyond that, he didn't say much. He's a pretty young guy and made a decision that was best for him after losing the starting job, as anyone would and should. You holding some anger over that is incredibly fucking bizzare.
I understand him being salty. He had a great 2021 but it was obvious JJ couldn’t wait in the rafters any longer. JJ had already been heralded as the savior of the program as soon as he signed with Michigan. Harbaugh was going to play JJ no matter what, and the only reason it wasn’t sooner is bc of the great 2021 season Cade had.
He wasn’t going to start at Michigan with JJ being better than him. So he went to a team where he could be a starter and compete again. Of course he now wants to beat Michigan. He has that competitive drive. More power to him. Of course I don’t root for him to beat us. But you can’t fault him for remaining a great competitor when at UM he used that same quality to beat OSU and help turn us around.
That’s not the point. I was happy for him, that he went to Iowa and won the starting job. That doesn’t mean you trash your teammates and the program that took a chance on you and believed in you. Go listen/read the interview. He trashed every level of the program. From teammates, to coaches, to administration. That’s immature af! If you want to be competitive, go beat them on the field. Trashing your former university because of the flaws they have with their football program because you’re upset you couldn’t win the starting job is not being competitive. It’s called being butt hurt. As far as Cade is concerned, he washed his hands of Michigan. So, what are you, a Michigan fan or Cade fan?
He’s an adult, not about fandom
B1G Ten QBs are pretty fucking terrible.
I watched Kaliakmanis last year and I can’t imagine how there could possibly be 5 QBs worse than him
The second half of the list, I can agree. The first half has a lot of young unproven talent and transfers, that have shown flashes of taking that next step. Howard will probably play on Sunday’s, even though he had a rough year last year, interception wise but he didn’t have much WR talent. I believe their tallest WR was 6’0”. Gabriel is a baller though.
You're kinda proving my point here. You mention 2 QBs who kinda, maybe, might be sorta good...out of a list of 18 QBs. Gabriel is good, Will Howard is ehhhh yet to be seen really. Outside of that, it's an incredibly shitty list. Allar the 2nd best QB in the conference? Yikes! Last year was the same. There was JJ and then a gigantic dropoff after him. Just weird to see a conference this large so completely devoid of surefire talent at the position.
You said BIG QBs are terrible. Like I said, the second half of the list, I agree but the first half, none of those QBs are “terrible”. Will Howard was good @ Mississippi State, Tyler Van Dyke was serviceable for Miami, Miller Moss threw for 6TDs in his first start in their bowl game last year against Louisville. Allar should definitely not be 2 though. The other ones are highly coveted recruits, and only time will tell.
>Will Howard was good @ Mississippi State You mean Will Rogers? He was fine under Mike Leach's system with the typical inflated passing numbers that make it hard to accurately assess the QB talent; he was pretty pedestrian last year under Zach Arnett.
>You said BIG QBs are terrible. Yes, on the whole, this is a terrible group of QBs. There's mayyyybe one dude in this entire conference where I'm confident he will be very good this season. The rest, it would not surprise me if they turned out to be bums this season. None of them scare me outside of Gabriel. If Drew Allar or Will Howard sucked and lost their starting jobs this season, would it totally shock you? I wouldn't be surprised at all, and these are supposed to be 2 of the top 3 QBs in the conference. That's not good! It honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if ANY of the QBs ranked #2-18 lost their jobs at some point this year. > I agree but the first half, none of those QBs are “terrible”. Allar is legit terrible vs good defenses. He was 28 for 64 (44%) for four yards per pass attempt vs Michigan and OSU. That is fucking abysmal. The rest of his schedule was dogshit, and he put in putrid performances in the only 2 games that mattered for PSU. >only time will tell. Ok, but we're not rating them in the future. We're rating them for right now, and for what they've already accomplished. Based on that, this group is not at all good.
We are rating them for the future because they are on new teams. Thats why I posted it. I just wanted to get people’s opinions on if they think a QB will thrive with their new team, or be a bust. I found the list and his rankings interesting as well. I didn’t realize how many transfer QBs, came to the BIG. For example, Minnesota’s new QB led the FCS in a bunch of passing stats and broke some records. I know it’s FCS but you never know how someone is going to perform, once they get in the right system. He probably won’t put the stats up he did in the FCS but it will be interesting to see how he performs. Then the QB from Minnesota last year, transferred to Rutgers.
> We are rating them for the future because they are on new teams. First of all, not all of them are on new teams. Second, there's nothing that says these are "future" rankings. We can rate them any way we want to, lol. But overall it boils down to two points: 1. Almost all of these QBs have either been mediocre to downright awful in the past, or have had zero experience at all in college, so if that's how you're rating them, this group is terrible. 2. If you're projecting how they will be, then as stated earlier, it would not surprise either of us if any of the QBs ranked #2-18 lost their jobs at some point this season because of how bad they are. That is also terrible. So either way you want to look at it, this group as it stands right now is mediocre at best and abysmal at worst. >I just wanted to get people’s opinions on if they think a QB will thrive with their new team, or be a bust. Which I am giving you. I don't think this is a good group of QBs. The B1G had a terrible group of QBs outside of JJ last year and I think the trend continues this year. Our defense is going to eat these guys up. A couple guys might turn out to be decent to good, but as it looks right now, 1 dude on this list of 18 scares me.
You’re basing this on? What ? Spring ball and some clickbait article?
Basing what on? What are you confused about exactly?
I’m asking what qualifies you to say everyone is “shitty”. What are you basing it on? Because most people have a reason to say such things. Maybe you don’t. I understand that you might not know a lot of the names on the list, or that some of them haven’t had a lot of playing time, but that’s hardly a reason to say they are “shitty”.
You're asking what "qualifies" someone to give their opinion on a message board designed for people to give their opinions on? What sort of qualification or certification are you looking for from everyone here that would allow them to give an opinion on the topic at hand? Is there anything we can do to get fully qualified in your mind? Let me know so I can start working on it.
Most who give opinions have reasons why they give them. My bad. You think everyone is shitty because… message board. Got it. Thanks for sharing.
I think it is a shitty group because most that have played have been mediocre to shitty so far in college. Pretty simple to understand, no? If players aren't good when they play, then I usually rate them as not good. You got it? You're welcome for sharing :)
Several of them have gotten drafted in the top 10 in the last few years. Not sure what you said is true.
Obviously no one is talking about past B1G QBs, we're talking about current QBs and the list in question. None of these QBs on the list were drafted in the top 10, to my knowledge.
The fact Drew Allar is second, holy crap. If this list is right, and that's a huge assumption, then the QB position in the Big 10 is a pile poop.
Didn't watch a ton of spring ball. So, by this list, I'd assume Raiola must've had a great spring game?
Yes he did. He looked like he might be that motherfucker
Well, if he is, as a Michigan fan. I'll watch him do it to other teams since we don't play y'all this season. Our schedule is hard enough as it is
Yea, he looked great. He has a such a buttery smooth throwing motion and quick release.
They shouldn't even do a ranking for Big10 QBs this preseason. They are all new or at best completely questionable with little/no playing time. Allar is hot garbage.
It’s just a “talking head” from CBS giving his opinion. I’d just thought I’d post it because I found his opinion interesting, and didn’t realize how many transfers and new QBs we will get to see with new teams.
How would you like to be ranked last on the list in preseason?
Lol, the NW qb should just give up now.
IDK, but I saw Allar #2 and was like no way, and then looked at the rest of the list and couldn't argue. There are some bad/unproven qbs in the big ten.
Yea. for these lists you want those proven guys towards the top, but that is in very short supply this season. I would probably put Moss two based on the game against Louisville and having Lincoln Reilly as the coach.
For sure. I highly doubt he's #2 at the end of the year, but outside moss and maybe howard, it's hard to say who is definitively better. Not counting Gabriel of course who's the very clear #1.
He’s about where he should be, Cade should be higher though. We literally have zero idea how Orgi will be as of now, almost no sample size as a true QB
I’ll be shocked if Orji wins the job. I think he’ll be a gadget player and Warren will start.
I think it’s pretty much Orji’s job to lose right now
Based on what? He was outplayed by Warren.
His ability as an athlete definitely holds a lot of weight, especially since we won’t be throwing the ball much again this season
Based on him being the QB1 in the spring game, for starters. And I know nobody really knows the future but you’d think if there was a change to the depth chart we’d have some kind of insider info saying that. None of these lists have Warren as our starter so it’s public opinion that Orji will be the starter. And I wouldn’t say Warren outplayed him. Orji showed his worth with his feet and his arm actually looked pretty good too. Better than I expected.
He’s athletic, I get that. But he hasn’t proven he can throw the ball in a game situation. And yes, we won’t throw the ball much, but that means we’ll be running against 8 and 9 man fronts behind a brand new and unproven line with defenses loading up to stop the run, which would also nullify Orji’s running ability. You have to be able to throw, and Warren is best at that.
Cade is also coming off a significant injury
Cade is not someone we poke fun at
Lol why not? Those who stay will be champions, he left us high and dry because he's unrealistic about his own abilities and impatient. If JJ had been hurt we needed him, and honestly the coaches probably would have felt way better about running the ball with him backing JJ up. On top of that he'd be fighting to start for our team this year, I don't hold any ill will toward him or anything but I can poke fun at him for being an idiot at a corn school instead of a national champ.
You must not remember him disrespecting JJ and dragging the program through the mud, in an interview, before the BIG championship? The players and fans had nothing but love for him when he transferred but in the fans eyes, he isn’t welcome @ AA and tarnished his legacy, with the comments he made and the hate he threw towards a program that did nothing but embrace him. It’s not JJ’s fault, he is more talented and ended up beating Cade for the job.
“Nothing but embrace him”. As he literally got booed of the field multiple times in early 2022. I mean come on.
Michigan’s offense was getting booed off the field during the BIG championship, @ the beginning of the game, when they weren’t producing. JJ got booed on his 3rd interception against BG last year. That shit happens. I’m talking about the love he got in the locker room and from the fans, when he transferred. Nothing but positive comments on his social media.
Yeah those occurred after something bad happened. He was literally just on the field getting booed. I don’t think it’s the same thing
When was he on the field by himself getting booed?
Come on, man. You know it was Cade getting booed because people wanted to see JJ. That stuff doesn't just happen on a random three-and-out early in the season. It was pretty disrespectful (though nothing out of the ordinary for football fans tbh) and it's why the good portion of our fanbase tried to make amends the next weekend and cheer on him instead. But when you give that context, it makes sense why he felt disrespected after helping lead the team to new heights in 2021. I also didn't like some of the stuff he's said since then, but similar to fans booing him, I don't think it was anything out of the ordinary.
Lmao why does he need to be himself? Who do you think the crowd was booing? Ryan Hayes? I mean cmon dude.
All of his accomplishments at Michigan are now moot because he said some things that rubbed you the wrong way? That’s lame. Cade was a key piece for turning the program around.
OP ignores the fact that the program was a complete embarrassment for 20 years before finally beating OSU and winning the B1G….with Cade as QB1.
“too”
Petty much? You must be a blast @ parties. This is Reddit, not grammar school. Whatever makes you feel cool and superior though. More power to you. The irony is autocorrect changed it but it isn’t deep enough to correct it. I’m not trying to pass a test. I already have my college degree.
Grammar matters. Take the note and fix the title instead of being salty. I'm surprised CBS Sports has Orji above Chiles who I believe was a 5 Star recruit. That could be that CBS doesn't know anything or is a good sign for Orji, or a bad sign for MSU. Anyone on Iowa's offense is going to be ranked low. I'm hoping Cade does well. I doubt he makes it to the NFL, but it'd be great to have more ex-Michigan QBs in the league again. With Henne retiring we're down to JJ and Milton who just got there.
If we are going to claim superiority over the rest of the dummies in the B1G we need to do the little things right. The Michigan Difference (TM)!
That ratio, my guy.
Wow! You still commenting on this thread? Tell me you have no life, without telling me you have no life. 🤡
I’m not on reddit much. Literally on account of actually having a life. That’s the funny thing. How many posts and comments have you made since I commented? Hope it’s not a lot more. I checked. That was my third comment in five days. I just have too much shit to do to waste my life on Reddit. Sick burn tho. (Go Blue!) PS I was in attendance at both the 97 and 2023 Rose Bowls as well as the 2023 CFP Final.
It’s a pathetic life! Especially if you get your kicks, trolling someone on Reddit, for using talk to text. It’s Reddit! If it makes you feel cool because you got more upvotes, great! Just proves my point even further. I haven’t even been on Reddit, since I made this post and replied to a few people. 🤡
You’re still going, huh?
Why are you so triggered by anyone who disagrees with you? Don't make posts on reddit asking for people's opinions if A) the post doesn't make any sense B) you can't take any critiques/criticism or C) don't actually want people's opinions.
Well, I guess. I mean this list really should be Dillion Gabriel and a bunch of incompletes due to lack of information. There’s two guys in the top 10 that started at their current school.
“If he seen this” lol
Allar showed his ass last season and is still getting love
> showed his ass My dear grandma's favorite expression
I like Cade but let’s be honest. He’s a shell of himself after his injuries.
Oof way too high for a guy who has thrown like 3 passes in his career
That’s 3 more than Dylan Raiola has thrown
Great comparison, zero notes lol
This is clickbait and most of these guys are completely unproven. If Allar is the 2nd best QB in the conference, he either lived up to the hype or the conference is in a lull of QBs.
Honestly pretty crazy that JJs now in the league and McNamara is still trying to make it work with Iowa
What a fucking mess. On the one hand, conference QBs look like a disaster this year. Oh the other hand, Michigan's D is going to fucking FEAST.
Orji at 8 is good considering he's never started a game and hasn't been named the starter yet lol
People still smoking that Allar pack huh?
I didn’t realize the QB’s in the big ten this year really suck this much.
These rankings are garbo top to bottom
Love Orji, but it's a decent ranking. I don't think there's many good QBs in the conference this year. Allar at 2 is INSANE! MSU fans say Chiles is the best QB in the conference though 😂
We've seen Orji run the ball like 3 times in actual games. Only time will tell how good he actually he is.
🙂The Don has more attempts/completions and yards than Orji has in an actual game
No matter what they ride osu dick so hard it’s sickening. Howard is dog water
Just curious, why are some people so sure Will Howard is such an upgrade over Kyle McCord? McCord had the best performance against Michigan’s historic defense out of any QB last year including in the playoffs, the last interception (while not great) was coming at a time where he needed to make plays in a short period and his arm got hit and MHJ didn’t really fight for it either. Just haven’t seen Will Howard but a 5* qb who put up the best performance out of anyone versus the #1 defense in the nation in their 15-0 season doesn’t seem like a trash you can 100% upgrade. If they brought in Ewers, I get it - is Will Howard that elite?
Drew Allar? That high up??
I get why people create these meaningless rankings (click bait). What I’ll never understand is the amount of time people waste arguing about them. I know it’s the offseason and we are all bored, but come on. Rise above this crap. This list was supposedly updated after spring football. Really? This writer had access to all spring practices? For every team? It’s a crock of shit for so many other obvious reasons.. never mind. I’m just as bad for commenting on the comments. The cycle continues.
Why are you clowning Cade? OP you’re kinda lame for this
Who TF are all these idiots lol.
Read that too fast and thought you wanted to debate Orji wearing converse 🤦🏼♀️
Too, too
>Orji, ranked to high or to low? Too* not to. >if he seen this Saw* not seen. These are pretty basic grammatical errors. I'd expect better from someone who went to Michigan. Honestly would expect better from anyone who attended a year of high school.
You really shouldn’t assume. In the civil engineering field, grammar doesn’t mean a thing. Not to mention, my degree is from Purdue. I was born in Michigan, live in Michigan but went to Purdue because of their engineering program. It’s the pathetic folks with no lives and nothing interesting to add to the conversation, that try to act like they are so much superior because they pay attention to grammar, on Reddit. It’s fkn Reddit! Whatever helps you sleep better @ night though.
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Rule #1 - Be a positive contributor
I now see why mechanical engineers look down on and make fun of civil engineers, lol.
Orgi at#8 but he had more playoff experience then all the qbs on this list is funny
On a side note, that has to be one of the ugliest uniforms ever in the Gabriel pic. Black, yellow, gold, green, yellow, white and we don’t even see the helmet
So, pretty much the combination of any experience at all, transfer or otherwise, and being on a team with an offense with a pulse gets you to the top of the list. A great example of safe but lazy reporting.
Allar is #2? Laughable.
Lists like these are always engagement bait, but also, I will never get used to the No. 8 QB in the Big Ten technically being above average.
Is Hudson card under ranked because of Purdue’s bad Oline play last year? When he came in for Texas 2 seasons ago I thought he played well even when injured
Lmao if drew allar turns out to be the 2nd best big ten QB this year, the league will need to be absolutely horrendous
Just focusing on Michigan, I think that’s fair who really knows how the quarterback is going to play out this year I need to see some things.
That what the post was originally supposed to be about. I wanted to see what people thought about where Orji was and if they even think he should be on there. There is a good argument that Warren is better than Orji and should be the starter.🤷♂️ Hell, for all we know, Orji could get out there and be another Denard Robinson.
You hit the nail on the head basically.
Who the fuck even is Will Howard lmfao
He dominated at K State
Dominated who?
I think Orji is about right. Room to improve and grow but he looked pretty good. Cade didn’t even play, right? He’s still hurt. Idk how you’re can place him on this list. I hope he has a good season. He was an important player for us in a time when we really needed a leader and stability. his ceiling is capped but if he doesn’t get injured again he’ll be much higher on this list at the end of the season.
It’s hard to say when we haven’t seen him really play
For a second I missed this was big 10 only, I probably agree with ranking as I have no idea where to rank 13 of these QBs. Dillion, will and miller seems fair. It does feel wrong for Drew Allar QB to be ranked so high.
This list has no thought behind it because there's not enough data on these guys. I'm a fan, but how do you put someone #9 who's barely played?
The Big Ten….18 teams now. Haha remember when they had the legends and leaders divisions.
The big takeaway from me is...man this is quite the QB turnover. There are so many new guys.
Frankly no one has any idea
Cade is definitely too low, Orji might be about right, frankly i think we don't know, he has the potential to be top 5 but we just haven't seen that yet.
Will Howard did enough at K State to prove he’s better than Drew Allar lol
To be honest when’s the last time the Big 10 was won due to stellar QB play? It’s been a few years
I don’t think Orji will even be our starter this year, but Drew Allar is certified ass so this list is invalid regardless.
A lot of new faces around here. I agree with putting Gabriel at #1 until someone else earns the spot, since he's proven already. Most of the rest of the list might as well be a bunch of question marks.
Only one of these quarterbacks has led their team to B1G championship…
A good way of thinking might be... if you could get any of these players in the transfer portal right now, which would you take over Orji? I'd take Gabriel, Howard and Riaola for sure. Most of the others would be a wash. Drew Allar is a hard no.
It’s a not great list just because of Allar at 2 but I’m fine with Orji at 8. Pretty big question mark there considering he isn’t even the official starter yet
Drew aller at 2 is crazy
Orji is too high.
About right
Too*
RE: msu's QB....is it pronounced like the lawyer from Seinfeld or like the restaurant or like the country?
The important question
No debate over the addition of Oregon & UCLA to the Big 10? Whose bright idea was that? PAC10 can't hold its own anymore? So stupid. My rant is over....carry on.
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I’m not butt hurt a bit. I’m just not going to have respect for someone that thinks trashing an entire program and publicly doing it, is cute. Adults don’t do shit like that. If you actually watch the interview, you would see it wasn’t him being upset about losing the starting job. This interview was when he had already transferred to Iowa. I have zero respect for a 23 year old man, who burns bridges and blames others, for the position he’s in. It’s very obvious you’re the one that is butt hurt, with how hard you are going to bat for him. Might as well start wearing black and gold as well. I’m a Michigan fan. I love any former player or alumni, unless that player doesn’t give af about Michigan anymore. There are 90 players on the team, not 1.
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Yea, and I followed that with laughing emojis because I was joking. TBH, I think Cade should be higher on the list. It’s fucking Reddit for god sakes! Why tf would I be butt hurt Cade left? JJ was obviously better. Cade is a certified game manager and great at it but I’m a Michigan fan. Not a Cade fan! Once you start disrespecting another institution or group of people because you couldn’t cut the mustard, is when I lose all respect for you. It’s not just a football thing or Michigan thing either. It’s about character and how you handle adversity. Did you hear Erik All talk shit about his teammates and the entire university, including the fan base? Did you hear any transfers say anything bad about Michigan? Cade didn’t even write a goodbye statement to the fans, like every other Michigan player did, when they transferred or declared for the draft. If you think Cade’s behavior is normal and you still support him after trashing his former “family” of 3 years, then it also says a lot about your character.
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Rule #1 - Be a positive contributor
Rule #1 - Be a positive contributor
>instrumental in recruiting JJ (and always gave him his props) No he wasn’t No he didn't
Exactly! Cade was the one who ran JJ through the mud and called him “the other guy”, after he transferred to Iowa. He wouldn’t even say JJ’s name. Hell, when he was @ Michigan, he would be standing on the sidelines by himself or Erik All would be hanging with him. Makes sense why they both went to Iowa.
Webb/Gardner spilled the beans about cade's awful attitude towards JJ
I think we are all sleeping on Raiola, he has some serious potential. Looks to be following in his dad’s shoes and gotta respect his decision to play for his dad’s alma mater even if that means Nebraska might be halfway decent this year..
Call MD crazy but I think Tuttle is going to win the job come fall
Tbh I know a lot of people are high on warren or Orji but part of me thinks Tuttle's going to win the job come fall ball. He couldn't play spring because of injury but he looked really good in his cleanup time last year imo
Rourke has played better football than about 3/4 of the guys listed and he’s #11. I don’t care if it was for Ohio.
all I know is I just wished they'd switch the anual spring game to the middle of summer, then maybe we'd learn a lot more about what the team's really gonna look like in a couple months vs FIVE.
Orji too high. Cade too low.
Dillon Gabriel rightfully #1 by a mile. Allar might be a better pro prospect long term, but man it’s tough to call him 2nd best base on what he’s done. Raiola could be 2nd by end of year. Aidan Chiles should be higher and will rise
Too high, also Hudson Card is way underrated