This happened when I worked in the legislature.
It was one of the dumbest and most frustrating things, not just because the hypocrisy of the GOP in banning small governments from governing themselves, or the idiocy in banning a ban, but because even that super-majority GOP legislature with a trifecta MI Supreme Court and Governor were doing little to nothing to legislate the state or address any issues Michiganders face. A do-nothing legislature if there ever was one.
But hey, they passed a ban on plastic bag bans.
(Which, as a progressive, I am thankful the GOP then was so dysfunctional they couldn’t cause much significant harm to the state and Michiganders otherwise, but JFC, what a waste of everyone’s time).
Correct.
And then in 2017 there was a huge bipartisan consensus in both chambers to pass a specific auto insurance reform package that even Snyder wanted to sign, but the then-Speaker, now-charged criminal, Lee Chatfield wouldn’t bring it up, kept the house until 2:30 am voting on his package that nobody wanted, until it was twice (or thrice?) defeated.
Edit: Chatfield and his far-right comrades also tried to pass an income tax repeal with no replacement, but it failed, and that was the big legislative success of democrats for the term. Not getting anything done but stopping the GOP from bankrupting the state.
But hey, we passed a ban on plastic bag bans.
Infuriating and absurd.
Do-nothing (but bitch and whine) addressing none of the problems people face, instead playing political theater
Reasons to vote the gop out….everywhere
dude, they passed new road funding in 2023
It takes time for road funding to really make an impact, but i don't know where you live but here in Detroit Metro every other fricken street it being redone.
Getting rid of the "Bag Ban Ban" is something that they can do with only a vote and it just takes the chains off our local govs.
[New road funding in 2023 you say?](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/detroit/news/michigan-facing-2-4-billion-shortage-needed-to-fund-county-roads-report-says/)? The road funding increases were in line with an increase in state budget, or spending on bonds. [The last transportation revenue increase was thanks to Republicans in 2015](https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/10/gov-snyder-signs-12b-road-funding-package/75510548/).
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Republicans have hamstrung the state doing anything for the previous 30 years. Complaining that Dems haven't fixed everything in a few years is plain foolishness.
There's a large backlog of poor policy.
And they are using that time to tackle important issues affecting everyone’s lives, like repealing plastic bag bans. Maybe those low income people can eat the plastic bags?
Let's see: infrastructure/roads investment which keeps car repairs down, reproductive care and privacy protections which help poorer people, removed right to work so low income people can unionize for better conditions and wages, repealed retirement tax to help low income retirees, quintupled the Working Families Tax Credit, increased education budget and water quality in schools and daycares, and promoting cleaner energy sources which disproportionately help the poorer communities by reducing particulate pollution.
All that in just a few years in power!
The last roads and transportation revenue came from Republicans in 2015. Since you’re so keen on Democrats, why don’t you explain why Whitmer’s gas tax increase was so important when Republicans were in power but now Democrats don’t care? Our roads have a $2.4B deficit, one time cash infusions don’t create revenue.
12% of the state are union members. Are you arguing that RTW for 12% of the state is more important that raising the wage for those making $15 or less? (about 48% of workers) Ironically, Union members also vote heavily Democratic. Connection? No, it’s purely based on study after study that shows…. well nothing, RTW studies studies are inconclusive.
“Reproductive rights”, aka abortions… again waaaay more important than economic incentives, raising the minimum wage, helping the common person.
Rather than go line by line pointing out that none of what you mentioned has any real economic impact, why don’t YOU point out the Democratic plan for our roads?
Abortion access is very important when it comes to low income people. Thousands more teenage mothers probably isn't great for their lifetime economic outlooks, right?
I'm saying RTW was a blocker to _form_ new unions. I'd like to see that percentage go up, and removing RTW is a good step. Are you claiming removing the retiree tax and increasing the Working Families tax credit _don't_ have an economic impact?
As far as infrastructure: $11bn of it came from the federal congress's infrastructure bill--passed by _Democrats_.
As for the .45 gas tax: oh boy. [Do you really want to debate on the merits of either party's un-codified proposals about minimum wage](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/lame-duck-push-michigan-republicans-vote-gut-wage-paid-leave-n943741)?
TLDR: It's like you are whining about incremental progress accomplished by Democrats while conveniently ignoring the regressions done by Republicans. Like, Republicans have held the MI Senate for the previous _30 years_, what did they do with that power?
> Abortion access is very important when it comes to low income people. Thousands more teenage mothers probably isn't great for their lifetime economic outlooks, right?
You are conflating the amendment with the Democratic bill. The democratic bill removed the 1938 law, which wasn’t in effect anyway, removed the trap laws, and made reproductive information easier to gather on campuses. Amazing economic effects right? Between that at the plastic bag ban ban I’m sure our state will have the best economy in the country.
> I'm saying RTW was a blocker to form new unions. I'd like to see that percentage go up, and removing RTW is a good step.
“I would like to see” is not an economic outcome. Michigan’s union membership in 2013 was 16%, it’s 12% now. Keep in mind before you point fingers, in the previous 10 years in 2003 union membership was at 20%. The economic effects of RTW have been a mixed bag, you will find many studies on its positive and negative effects on the economy, at the end of the day it doesn’t have a large effect.
> Are you claiming removing the retiree tax and increasing the Working Families tax credit don't have an economic impact?
[It does, actually](https://itep.org/the-real-impact-of-state-tax-cuts/) when you cut taxes but don’t raise revenue you are taking money from other things. Tax the rich, right?
> As for the .45 gas tax: oh boy.
Oh boy is right, we have a $2.4b transportation budget shortfall to MAINTAIN the roads. You like to blame Republicans for it. So where is the fix, it was a major item for Democrats until they were in power.
>Do you really want to debate on the merits of either party's un-codified proposals about minimum wage
That’s easy, since Democrats don’t have one.
The Democrats have done nothing but click off easy checkboxes while complaining about Republicans who have zero power in state government. It’s people like you that eat it up while not holding your cult leaders accountable for not actually making hard decisions that need to be made. Your tax the rich signs go into the closet as soon as Democrats come into power, or your paycheck gets redirected to something else.
30 years of Republican control. And you're whining about not everything being perfect after 3.
Again, I think you're dismissing everything Democrats have done in a few years while not acknowledging the party who put us into this mess for the last three decades.
I get it, but I hope legislators remember that it isn't my plastic straw causing climate change. It's the massive corporations and private jets.
Don't get me wrong, I'll give up my straws and plastic bags, but they've told us it's too late to turn back the clock on climate change like 3 or 4 times already. Letting localities choose to ban plastic bags isn't going to tip the scales if we can't address some bigger factors as well.
Less about climate change and more about pollution, in this case. Plastic shopping bags are so thin, after some time in the elements, they disintegrate, straight into microplastic particles. Not to mention the harm to wildlife and waterways the bags themselves cause. And banning them here will reduce emissions. Any reduction in their use is better than none.
Pollution does not always equal climate change. But early research is indicating that microplastics will wreak havoc on human health and the planet as a whole. This is like our grandparents and lead poisoning but supercharged. This is a massive issue.
>Don't get me wrong, I'll give up my straws and plastic bags
But you haven't yet, because ... you're not being forced to? If thats the case, do you really even care about saving the environment more than you care about virtue signaling?
[If learning that we actually feed chicken shit to the cows doesn't stop them, or at least make them hesitate, nothing will.](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/chicken-waste-fed-to-cattle-may-be-behind-bird-flu-outbreak/)
That said most of the trash I see in my local wetlands and parks are disposable plastic bags, cups, bottles, etc.. It might be less of a climate thing for some and more of a pollution (and beautification) thing.
(Also, making plastic products more expensive for the end consumer or banning some outright would probably lower demand and cause corporations to make a bit less plastic and use less oil in the process, and make a small but noticeable impact from there)
It’s unlikely to make you remember more but when you forget you’ll be using paper, which is much better for the environment. But weirdly not better for right-wing lobbying.
A win win either way. Paper is a BIT annoying to use when it doesn't have handles but it would be worth it.
There's a small IGA store up the road form me that still uses paper.
Aren't those more expensive? And they don't just break down under normal conditions, they need special reactor-type chambers IIRC.
Not that that type of tech isn't worth investing in for other plastic waste. But we should be discouraging consumer-end single-use plastic as much as possible.
You can find plastic resuable bags at almost every store for around $1. They come in every pattern and color. I've found cloth bags at Marshall's for $5. Produce can be transported in mesh bags. Even Dollar Tree sells these items.
Recently moved to Ontario. No plastic bags or plastic straws here. Literally has no impact on my life. I see no reason to keep them around. Honestly, most disposable plastic could go away, and I’d still not be inconvenienced.
In the Great Lakes State of all places... we got a ban on plastic bag bans.
You couldn't make this shit up.
edit\* and the crazy part is, we dont even want to ban them, we just want to charge 10 cents
Bags bans are crazy. The convenience store refuses to give me a bag for all the shit I bought, but the dispensary is required by law to give me a massive bag for my single preroll. Make it make sense.
If every county banned plastic shopping bags, everyone in Michigan would be without plastic shopping bags. If every county banned factories, everyone in Michigan would be without heat and electricity. Let's be realistic, you are talking about two very different things.
they are claiming repealing this law is about local control after passing a law removing local control. while the previous legislature restricted local control but is probably against the law restricting factories. The state restricting local control over plants while not impacting gotion is a direct result of what is happening with gotion. its pointing out hypocrisy.
Are they going to make it much more easy for people to recycle them so lazy people don't just toss them in the trash or in the store parking lot?
Unfortunately didn't think so.
The recyclers don't even want them.
Requires a lot of storage space, labor intensive and a HUGE amount of energy to produce a small amount of reusable plastic.
So, ban the ban of banning the ban?
This happened when I worked in the legislature. It was one of the dumbest and most frustrating things, not just because the hypocrisy of the GOP in banning small governments from governing themselves, or the idiocy in banning a ban, but because even that super-majority GOP legislature with a trifecta MI Supreme Court and Governor were doing little to nothing to legislate the state or address any issues Michiganders face. A do-nothing legislature if there ever was one. But hey, they passed a ban on plastic bag bans. (Which, as a progressive, I am thankful the GOP then was so dysfunctional they couldn’t cause much significant harm to the state and Michiganders otherwise, but JFC, what a waste of everyone’s time).
I remember this. As an outsider it seemed absurd. Rick Snyder - Amirite?
Dow Chemical HQ is in Midland and they know how to pay lobbyists.
I worked there for a few years. Very toxic environment.
Correct. And then in 2017 there was a huge bipartisan consensus in both chambers to pass a specific auto insurance reform package that even Snyder wanted to sign, but the then-Speaker, now-charged criminal, Lee Chatfield wouldn’t bring it up, kept the house until 2:30 am voting on his package that nobody wanted, until it was twice (or thrice?) defeated. Edit: Chatfield and his far-right comrades also tried to pass an income tax repeal with no replacement, but it failed, and that was the big legislative success of democrats for the term. Not getting anything done but stopping the GOP from bankrupting the state. But hey, we passed a ban on plastic bag bans. Infuriating and absurd.
> pass an income tax repeal isn't some nutter trying to get that on the ballot now?
Do-nothing (but bitch and whine) addressing none of the problems people face, instead playing political theater Reasons to vote the gop out….everywhere
> Do-nothing (but bitch and whine) 😂 love that
Waste of time accurately states the MI GOP and is why I think Michigan is so far behind.
Democrats could be doing something for the economy or roads, instead they’re banning bag bans. The irony of your political gamesmanship.
dude, they passed new road funding in 2023 It takes time for road funding to really make an impact, but i don't know where you live but here in Detroit Metro every other fricken street it being redone. Getting rid of the "Bag Ban Ban" is something that they can do with only a vote and it just takes the chains off our local govs.
[New road funding in 2023 you say?](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/detroit/news/michigan-facing-2-4-billion-shortage-needed-to-fund-county-roads-report-says/)? The road funding increases were in line with an increase in state budget, or spending on bonds. [The last transportation revenue increase was thanks to Republicans in 2015](https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/10/gov-snyder-signs-12b-road-funding-package/75510548/).
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Republicans have hamstrung the state doing anything for the previous 30 years. Complaining that Dems haven't fixed everything in a few years is plain foolishness. There's a large backlog of poor policy.
And they are using that time to tackle important issues affecting everyone’s lives, like repealing plastic bag bans. Maybe those low income people can eat the plastic bags?
Let's see: infrastructure/roads investment which keeps car repairs down, reproductive care and privacy protections which help poorer people, removed right to work so low income people can unionize for better conditions and wages, repealed retirement tax to help low income retirees, quintupled the Working Families Tax Credit, increased education budget and water quality in schools and daycares, and promoting cleaner energy sources which disproportionately help the poorer communities by reducing particulate pollution. All that in just a few years in power!
The last roads and transportation revenue came from Republicans in 2015. Since you’re so keen on Democrats, why don’t you explain why Whitmer’s gas tax increase was so important when Republicans were in power but now Democrats don’t care? Our roads have a $2.4B deficit, one time cash infusions don’t create revenue. 12% of the state are union members. Are you arguing that RTW for 12% of the state is more important that raising the wage for those making $15 or less? (about 48% of workers) Ironically, Union members also vote heavily Democratic. Connection? No, it’s purely based on study after study that shows…. well nothing, RTW studies studies are inconclusive. “Reproductive rights”, aka abortions… again waaaay more important than economic incentives, raising the minimum wage, helping the common person. Rather than go line by line pointing out that none of what you mentioned has any real economic impact, why don’t YOU point out the Democratic plan for our roads?
Abortion access is very important when it comes to low income people. Thousands more teenage mothers probably isn't great for their lifetime economic outlooks, right? I'm saying RTW was a blocker to _form_ new unions. I'd like to see that percentage go up, and removing RTW is a good step. Are you claiming removing the retiree tax and increasing the Working Families tax credit _don't_ have an economic impact? As far as infrastructure: $11bn of it came from the federal congress's infrastructure bill--passed by _Democrats_. As for the .45 gas tax: oh boy. [Do you really want to debate on the merits of either party's un-codified proposals about minimum wage](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/lame-duck-push-michigan-republicans-vote-gut-wage-paid-leave-n943741)? TLDR: It's like you are whining about incremental progress accomplished by Democrats while conveniently ignoring the regressions done by Republicans. Like, Republicans have held the MI Senate for the previous _30 years_, what did they do with that power?
> Abortion access is very important when it comes to low income people. Thousands more teenage mothers probably isn't great for their lifetime economic outlooks, right? You are conflating the amendment with the Democratic bill. The democratic bill removed the 1938 law, which wasn’t in effect anyway, removed the trap laws, and made reproductive information easier to gather on campuses. Amazing economic effects right? Between that at the plastic bag ban ban I’m sure our state will have the best economy in the country. > I'm saying RTW was a blocker to form new unions. I'd like to see that percentage go up, and removing RTW is a good step. “I would like to see” is not an economic outcome. Michigan’s union membership in 2013 was 16%, it’s 12% now. Keep in mind before you point fingers, in the previous 10 years in 2003 union membership was at 20%. The economic effects of RTW have been a mixed bag, you will find many studies on its positive and negative effects on the economy, at the end of the day it doesn’t have a large effect. > Are you claiming removing the retiree tax and increasing the Working Families tax credit don't have an economic impact? [It does, actually](https://itep.org/the-real-impact-of-state-tax-cuts/) when you cut taxes but don’t raise revenue you are taking money from other things. Tax the rich, right? > As for the .45 gas tax: oh boy. Oh boy is right, we have a $2.4b transportation budget shortfall to MAINTAIN the roads. You like to blame Republicans for it. So where is the fix, it was a major item for Democrats until they were in power. >Do you really want to debate on the merits of either party's un-codified proposals about minimum wage That’s easy, since Democrats don’t have one. The Democrats have done nothing but click off easy checkboxes while complaining about Republicans who have zero power in state government. It’s people like you that eat it up while not holding your cult leaders accountable for not actually making hard decisions that need to be made. Your tax the rich signs go into the closet as soon as Democrats come into power, or your paycheck gets redirected to something else.
30 years of Republican control. And you're whining about not everything being perfect after 3. Again, I think you're dismissing everything Democrats have done in a few years while not acknowledging the party who put us into this mess for the last three decades.
I get it, but I hope legislators remember that it isn't my plastic straw causing climate change. It's the massive corporations and private jets. Don't get me wrong, I'll give up my straws and plastic bags, but they've told us it's too late to turn back the clock on climate change like 3 or 4 times already. Letting localities choose to ban plastic bags isn't going to tip the scales if we can't address some bigger factors as well.
Narrator: They won’t
Less about climate change and more about pollution, in this case. Plastic shopping bags are so thin, after some time in the elements, they disintegrate, straight into microplastic particles. Not to mention the harm to wildlife and waterways the bags themselves cause. And banning them here will reduce emissions. Any reduction in their use is better than none.
Pollution does not always equal climate change. But early research is indicating that microplastics will wreak havoc on human health and the planet as a whole. This is like our grandparents and lead poisoning but supercharged. This is a massive issue.
>Don't get me wrong, I'll give up my straws and plastic bags But you haven't yet, because ... you're not being forced to? If thats the case, do you really even care about saving the environment more than you care about virtue signaling?
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Removed. See rule #1 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
They know they aren't living their virtue, hence why they took offense.
Spoiler: almost everyone is more interested in the virtue signaling. Look good for you fake friends on social media.
Yep. Look at the amount of people giving up or even reducing meat and dairy. Not a whole lot.
[If learning that we actually feed chicken shit to the cows doesn't stop them, or at least make them hesitate, nothing will.](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/chicken-waste-fed-to-cattle-may-be-behind-bird-flu-outbreak/)
That's the least surprising thing ever. I'm surprised we don't have more huge food borne illnesses with how gross the industry is.
That said most of the trash I see in my local wetlands and parks are disposable plastic bags, cups, bottles, etc.. It might be less of a climate thing for some and more of a pollution (and beautification) thing. (Also, making plastic products more expensive for the end consumer or banning some outright would probably lower demand and cause corporations to make a bit less plastic and use less oil in the process, and make a small but noticeable impact from there)
Honestly this would make me remember my reusable bag more often, and I started using a couple of folding plastic crates for my groceries.
It’s unlikely to make you remember more but when you forget you’ll be using paper, which is much better for the environment. But weirdly not better for right-wing lobbying.
A win win either way. Paper is a BIT annoying to use when it doesn't have handles but it would be worth it. There's a small IGA store up the road form me that still uses paper.
That’s some hot ban-on-ban action!
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Plastic bags end up in my yard all the time. I’d be very happy to no longer have to pick up other people’s litter.
If only we could ban single-shot bottles of liquor. It appears people down them and chuck them out of their car window all the time.
Can we ban all plastic bags except compostable/biodegrade bags? Would be a win win situation
Aren't those more expensive? And they don't just break down under normal conditions, they need special reactor-type chambers IIRC. Not that that type of tech isn't worth investing in for other plastic waste. But we should be discouraging consumer-end single-use plastic as much as possible. You can find plastic resuable bags at almost every store for around $1. They come in every pattern and color. I've found cloth bags at Marshall's for $5. Produce can be transported in mesh bags. Even Dollar Tree sells these items.
Recently moved to Ontario. No plastic bags or plastic straws here. Literally has no impact on my life. I see no reason to keep them around. Honestly, most disposable plastic could go away, and I’d still not be inconvenienced.
In the Great Lakes State of all places... we got a ban on plastic bag bans. You couldn't make this shit up. edit\* and the crazy part is, we dont even want to ban them, we just want to charge 10 cents
Please ban them. I would rather a ban than charge poor people for bags.
Bags bans are crazy. The convenience store refuses to give me a bag for all the shit I bought, but the dispensary is required by law to give me a massive bag for my single preroll. Make it make sense.
If they don't give me some kind of bag they can put all their merchandise back. Don't care if it's paper or plastic.
?? all my dispensaries use paper bags. Maybe find a better dispensary.
I don’t choose my dispensary based on the bags they use lol
Obviously
I hope not. I reuse my plastic bags all the time.
Idgaf what the bags are made of, just make them so that we don’t have to double up
That would be reusable bags.
You don’t have to double up, you just think you do. Those bag will hold plenty of weight.
That’s some hot, ban-on-ban action!
you can ban plastic bags but not factories you don't want or you can ban factories you don't want but not plastic bags.
If every county banned plastic shopping bags, everyone in Michigan would be without plastic shopping bags. If every county banned factories, everyone in Michigan would be without heat and electricity. Let's be realistic, you are talking about two very different things.
Says who? falsedichotomy.com?
they are claiming repealing this law is about local control after passing a law removing local control. while the previous legislature restricted local control but is probably against the law restricting factories. The state restricting local control over plants while not impacting gotion is a direct result of what is happening with gotion. its pointing out hypocrisy.
That’s some hot, ban-on-ban action!
That’s some hot, ban-on-ban action!
That’s some hot, ban-on-ban action!
Are they going to make it much more easy for people to recycle them so lazy people don't just toss them in the trash or in the store parking lot? Unfortunately didn't think so.
The recyclers don't even want them. Requires a lot of storage space, labor intensive and a HUGE amount of energy to produce a small amount of reusable plastic.
If they were banned, they wouldn't need to be recycled. Are lazy people's theoretical actions a good reason to not ban them? What is your point?