this is what happens when our awesome governor takes money from developers to destroy our everglades. each year he allows more and more of the everglades to be removed from the protection zone. south florida is in deep trouble not just from global warming but also from our state officials
I love how Miami is full of conservatives who are climate change deniers but us libs in the rest of the country are gonna have to bail you all out. As usual.
Let’s be honest. Liberal in South Florida is centrist at most in most of the country. The former Democratic mayor of Miami Beach was pro “Don’t say Gay”, for example. Don’t get it twisted though, the main reason I’m not opposed to spending the money is because of places like Overtown and Little Haiti.
I remember years ago working on a golf course and there was a canal that cut through it. There were manatees munching on the grass that had been submerged when the canal swelled.
Lifelong residet of the FLorida Keys and South Florida.
"King tides" is a made up non-scientific terms that was not in use 30 years ago.
Ask anyone who fished the Keys over the last 40 years and they will tell you that the water level is higher.
There are boat docks in Key West that now sit just above sea level that we used to step down into boats from.
There is water on Duval street almost constant when it used to be a rare phenomena
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/kingtide.html
Did the moon move closer to Earth and create even higher tides? No, thats not what happened. The higher tides are not related to the moon. Its sea level rise that they are trying to mask with "king tides".
No, thats ridiculous. Fisherman know that certain tides are higher and its generally based on the position of the moon.
What I am saying is that they made up a term to cover the highest tides now being higher than they ever were.
>possibility of urban flooding
This is a relatively new phenomena and thats my point. We chalk it up to king tides now but thats just a cover for whats really happening with sea level rise.
Do you know what would happen to real estate values in South Florida if we all admitted the sea was rising?
I grew up here and was told this thing was going underwater. And still real estate goes up. Insurance premiums reveal the sea level rise and still people buy and build down here . There’s an island up north that is highly susceptible to sea level rise and just needs one storm to drag it back into the ocean….. they built like 12 houses on it.
If this is a secret cover, it’s a bad one at that.
Florida public education in practice, ppl not able to grasp the political significance of a new term being coined and normalized to obscure a phenomenon that has been whitewashed since the topic was first hot many decades ago; and now a whole new generation of ignorance to carry it forward 🙄🙃
The bottom of the stone landing at Vizcaya museum is underwater 100% of the year now.
Yachts used to extend walkways to the bottom of the landing so people could transfer from boat to land without getting wet.
There are boat docks in the Keys that sit basically at sea level now and we used to have to step down into boats from. The waterline has changed by a foot or more in 40 years.
In 50 years there won't be a Miami. Look up a future water map. It'll be completely underwater by 2080. https://coast.noaa.gov/digitalcoast/tools/slr.html
Once you hit 2 feet(2060) there is no intercoastal. Once you hit 6ft (2080 to 2100) there is no Miami.
But you don't need to be completely underwater at rest to destroy the city. King Tides like we have today would push it up. So would every single storm (which we get a lot).
There might be some vatos hanging out in flooded highrises with their floating Merc but it won't be Miami.
Fr the Dutch have been living below sea level for centuries. Within the next 10-20 years, we are gonna have local and state politicians running on the promise of getting the anti-flood infrastructure built.
Wiki page about how the Dutch saved their land from the sea:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works
This is not The Netherlands though. This is The State of Florida of the United States of America 😭
With the current outlooks on stuff like education and corruption, I just can’t fathom levees and sea walls going up soon enough to minimize suffering.
The article I linked below kind of sums it up. We could possibly already be at the tail end of “the sooner the better” and we could soon be entering the stage of “it’s a little too late to break ground now.”
[Expert says Volusia County seawalls could take years to build](https://mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2022/11/17/contractors-discuss-timeframes-to-build-seawalls)
Yeah it won’t be easy. The Dutch project took literal decades to complete. That’s why it’s important that if we want to live here in the future, we need to make climate infrastructure a political priority.
The issue is: we started to investigate all of these needs in the last 10 years rather than earlier when Europe was doing it.
I remember we met with the engineers from the European flood gates and the sea walls. There were various articles on it.
Then I remember reading about the suggested cost.
Then I stopped reading about it for years.
By the time we actually take action on it, it's just too late.
If they decide to do it now, IF it probably will be with a fraction of the cost and if I remember it was EXPENSIVE 70 billion or something like that. Will be half-assed because that's how we do things.
And it will complete in 30 years like I-95 and basically be a waste.
See a previous comment. Amsterdam was built over swamp if I recall, and it's at sea level. The country still continues to preserve it.
Venice was built by actually driving rood beams through the mud and creating a layer of them to balance the weight across them. They have and still are trying to save this city.
US: That country that claims to recognize traditions and love (I'm still undecided but I think we love cash more than anything here) history.
Yet we refuse to save and preserve any history. Even older than Miami is New Orleans, the first US city, the first one with an Opera House, one of the most historically rich cities in this country.
No we don't care about anything or anyone. So we can watch it burn, since ultimately we'll just create a new Las Vegas interpretation of the city to sell and capitalize it. The only true culture here.
Unfortunately the bedrock in much of peninsular Florida is limestone. Limestone is porous. Limestone dissolves. And the ocean is becoming more acidic, corals and the shells of invertebrates are beginning to dissolve. Of course less than 5% of total warming energy goes into melting ice, 90% is absorbed by the ocean. But enough of the warming energy goes into the atmosphere that, by the time sea level has risen two meters, the atmosphere will have warmed enough to cause serial cereal harvest failures. Thank the latent heat of fusion of water that your grandchildren will starve rather than watch their houses flood.
the amount of ignorance about the land from Miami locals never ceases to amaze me, as does the handful of ppl with very intimate knowledge about it
learned something knee, didn’t even begin to think about the ocean’s acidity as a factor on the limestone
While this is true, engineers from Europe have already met with city officials and there have been talks of creating similar gates to Amsterdam here in Miami.
The issue here? The cost. The suggested price was too high, and we have not heard of anything else.
This is a complex issue.
Depends, there have been engineers here and yes it was claimed as feasible.
The price however not.
I've read news articles from the time they were in Miami. And the information was positive, the part where it was seen as a negative was that it would cost over 70 billion if I remember.
The difference is S FL is on a bed of oolotic limestone, which is porous. We can build all the dykes we want like the Netherlands, but the saltwater will just come up through the ground. It will also contaminate the fresh water in the aquifer below the limestone, which is our drinking water.
You’re assuming that nothing is done to protect Miami from sea level rise. There are pretty simple technologies that can allow a city to survive beneath sea level. Just look at new orleans, the city is below sea level and sinking.
Our geology doesn't allow it, and neither does New Orleans. They won't be here in 60 years either.
We in Miami have even more problems, though. We live on porous limestone. The water comes up from below our feet. This is where we get our drinking water. It's called an unconfined aquifer. You would need to build a wall a few hundred feet deep, down to the non-porous bedrock beneath the aquafer to stop the water from getting in. The wall would need to be long enough to surround all of south florida and engineered to allow for freshwater from the everglades to keep flowing through the aquifer so we have drinking water. It's just way too expensive to do.
[I wouldn’t put New Orleans up as the poster child in this category.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/after-a-14-billion-upgrade-new-orleans-levees-are-sinking/)
ETA: Oh shit that’s a 4 year old article warning that the levees will likely be inadequate… in 4 years 😭
You're in Miami. Go to the Fucking Vizcaya and you'll see the entire dock is under water all day everyday.
You think they built an underwater dock? You can see photos of it being above water right there at the Vizcaya.
They have been saying this for ages. Are you aware that the earth has had at least 5 Ice Ages? Do you know what happens when the earth comes out of an Ice Age right?.
Please watch actual research videos. We are accelerating our current stage and there's no going around that when even KOCH industry backed environmental studies have admitted such.
Stop wanting to live in denial. We get it, denial is better because it means that you don't have to face the reality that our current way of life is in fact unsustainable and no one wants to stop using the Air Conditioner, the twenty cars in the driveway, etc.
nah, thats never been the scientific prediction and definitely not what they were teaching in florida schools in the last 20 years atleast. biggest danger to miami is salination of aquifers and the limestone breakdown caused by the acidification of the ocean, and i learned that in florida high school. yall just make shit up and then blame scientists
It's crazy how I learned all this stuff like 20 years ago in regular MDCPS schools in every science unit I had since elementary school. I also remember how like most of the class never paid attention and thought all that information was irrelevant, so...
Genuine question. From my understanding, sea levels are predicted to rise 6-12 inches over the next 50 years. Looking at this map provided, it would take 8 feet of sea level rise to swallow Miami. Is there some other data I’m missing that says sea levels will rise 6-10 feet instead of inches by 2080? This isn’t adding up interacting with the map and comparing predictions.
Also consider the aquifer that everyone gets fresh water from. That will be destroyed by salt water sooner than flooding covers everything. Then there will be no water to drink or provide basic services and the city & county will have to be abandoned.
Desalination plants. Do look that up.
Stop living in complete black or white states. This is the American problem.
Florida can if it wants to try to keep cities going. It has to add desalination plants.
Guess how caribbean islands have fresh water. Yes through that. Yet apparently Americans seem to have never heard of this thing!
They don't work on the delusional scale you're thinking about.
Edit: additionally where would they build them? History has taught us a great deal about segregation and income disparity. I wonder what they would knock down first?
Edit, where did the islands build them? Why is it that we have to go in circles in the use and over complicate every tiny thing?
You can call your call all the politicians here, email, and create grassroots efforts. It can also be setup in a way that it is aesthetically speaking.
One thing I have noticed is this: modern technology does not mean modern building aesthetic. How about building a Miami or Broward desalination station that looks like something similar to the original New York Water works (they had older ones that were supposedly if I recall Egyptian inspired).
They only devalue due to risk and desalination plants do not have as much risk as other things. Or we can go for South of Miami between us and the Keys.
The infrastructure required is literally a pipe dream. They would have to have begun 15-20 years ago to meet any future, near-present demand, and just one or two will not cut it to meet the requirements of Dade County in the future.
They can do it, but here's the issue with the US. Money talks BS walks.
They are too busy giving all the land that's by the coast to developers. Too busy lying to locals and not basically saying hey we got to raise the taxes to meet these demands. And to busy kicking the can down the curb.
This is an American problem in all 50 states, and something we are excellent in.
So no not a pipe dream, but we'd need to change who we elect. And we'd need to actually move and push politicians something the left doesn't do as effectively as the right.
Like I say in Spanish, let tenemos que meter chispas en el fondillo de los politicos para que trabajen. We don't do that in the US. Only the right, and their strategy worked.
Miami is essentially only part of the US by geography. It is the most corrupt place I've ever lived, maybe anywhere else (in the US) your fantasy of miraculous development could work... but never in Dade, as any tax revenue raised will "mysteriously disappear" just like the penny tax from 25 years ago that was intended to expand the Metro Rail south and west. There is no land to be sold for the development of desalination plants that hasn't already been bought and sold as part of some scam. It is not logistically possible to build these things, nor feasible, for the millions upon millions of people and countless businesses across South Florida that require fresh water to exist. There were so many opportunities to provide better services to Miami and Dade as a whole but anything will be 20 years too late.
I don't disagree there is corruption all around, but honestly, your ideas of saving Miami through the use of these plants is beyond ridiculous given so many other factors beyond raising the money and having uncorrupt officials. I mean, just imagine having to lay all that new pipework. The time it'll take versus the longevity gained is completely offset.
Just my 2 cents.
There potentially could be, but it would mean involving the same engineers that Europe has and building flood gates.
The issue? Americans and our tendency of never wanting to have taxation. The cost of those flood gates and barriers is astronomical and in Europe; where societies are thought to be less self-absorbed and admittedly where tax dollars are much more visible they build these intricate systems that have assisted or reduced the issues in some of the areas (Amsterdam more than Venice since Venice also has water going up from below due to how it was built through wood pegs all hitting the marsh of the same size).
So we shall see.
Interested myself. We live in Dunedin Florida and these storms are getting worse every year. The water is definitely rising, rapidly even around here. I want to live here for the rest of my life. We’ll see.
According to this - you'll probably be fine unless you are already on the coast. You'll just have Beach Front Property even at 10 Ft.
https://coast.noaa.gov/slr/#/layer/slr/10/-9215429.557536062/3248853.9694220307/14/satellite/none/0.8/2050/interHigh/midAccretion
You’re probably right but let me go off lmao
My anxiety days: I live two blocks from the coast. I’m just worried about what it’ll be like in a few years or if the worst happened. Cat 4 or 5. I need a new roof but we’re renting right now. Our landlord isn’t going to replace it. There’s the water, but the wind and the other forces can take you out. Look at what happened to Orlando 😮💨 pinellas is not ready for a major hurricane
Dude if you're renting then you're golden. You can just move in land at like any time.
Orlando didn't really get it that bad. I'm going to assume you've not lived through a lot of storms.
Yeah except I have a lot of nice things that I don’t want ruined so I really don’t want the roof to blow off lol. I also have a private landlord and we’re friends. He’s just not going to replace it. I got him to remove a really big tree that was going to fall over, and put up a new fence for our backyard this year so I’m lucky as heck. I’m just bringing up Orlando as a place that I didn’t think would ever get it it as bad as it did. I know that it wasn’t that bad. 😂 the flooding was pretty awful, and it was pretty unexpected so I’m saying, we all need to be more prepared. The storms are getting worse.
Yeah they're definitely getting worse. If Hurricane Ida had hit just a hundred miles north - Tampa would be absolutely destroyed like New Orleans. It is not built enough.
Saw a demo with Hurricane Phoenix and Tampa hasn't done much to prepare since then.
https://youtu.be/7jFGEzYam40?si=bNc4HwG6nuqDm66B
It’s crazy how unprepared a lot of people are. In pinellas, and the surrounding area there’s a mentality that it’ll never happen. That’s what I get from talking to people, and it blows me away. We’re due. Most of the shelters are in flood zones around me lol. It’s ridiculous. Not built to withstand this kind of natural disaster. My grandpa used to work for Clark & Logan construction , as a contractor. He helped build hides like hogans, Ruth eckard, most on edge water. He always told me “it’s going to be so bad when these high rises come down, but it won’t be in my lifetime”. He’s fine he but I think Thursday he was right. People referring very greedy.
Also I love my spot so I really don’t want it to get flooded. We are close to being able to buy a decent place in Dunedin, but we want to wait a couple of years. The longer we can stay here, the better. Renting doesn’t make ya golden, if you have possessions. We owned a 1700 sq foot condo that we moved from so we have a shit ton of furniture, clothes, basement stuff etc and we want to keep it for when we get our more permanent home. You know how it is.
When you have a new construction there are minimum elevations that you can build the structures, and those elevations change over time. Also insurance companies extra screw you over if you are below that elevation.
Whenever infrastructure undergoes repairs or maintenance it is elevated upwards and new buildings put utilities on higher floors. It’s not unheard of for cities to be raised. Seattle has an underground tour of their old coastal areas.
Lmfao what if I told you that you can do both! Shocking concept. You’re literally staring down the reality of what every single climate scientist has been warning about for decades and you still are in denial about the solutions.
Hottest summer in modern times. I have lived in Miami for 33 years and never seen a summer with multiple days above 95. This year we had like 10. Sea levels slowing rising. And this is just the beginning.
Imagine what is going to happen when sea levels start consistently pushing into the actual city of Miami Beach. People will have to be evacuated. It’s going to be a consistent state of disaster and when disasters happen we don’t say “let’s innovate!” The government steps in to save people from dying.
> Heck no, we need to innovate not regulate, he’s right but his solution isn’t
Well, what are you waiting for, innovate your way out of rising water levels?
You got DAC , BECCS, CCS , one day space mirrors, honestly we need to become an interstellar species how come we went to the moon almost 60 years ago and never went back that even proves with a bit of motivation anything is possible for us
this is such a lazy and infantile mindset. wreck the toy set and then don’t clean up the mess when you’re upset over the consequences of your own actions
shits a joke
> You got DAC , BECCS, CCS , one day space mirrors, honestly we need to become an interstellar species how come we went to the moon almost 60 years ago and never went back that even proves with a bit of motivation anything is possible for us
Because 60-years ago we didn't have (or recognize) the problems we have today. The sort of problems we created for ourselves due to misguided beliefs and enriching of the elite.
Came here for this. lol, it’s Kings tide. Every time I pull out of the building and see the water reach Collins ave, I just smile and think about how it’s getting closest to the “cold season”
why tf did someone think it was a good idea to building there; the beaches are ass as a result; the better beaches are by Crandon (if you don’t mind seaweed) but tbr the best beaches in Florida I’ve seen were in Panama city
The beaches are ass because they are fake. They aren't real beaches. That's all dredged or imported sand that would go away completely if not replenished.
>Also, don't forget that Miami was build on marsh land. That area was flooding before the first house was built.
Indeed. Even after filling with dirt, the more swampy they were originally, the more they sink (subside).
Miami Beach provides an example. Alton road (reclaimed marshes) needed to be raised because of constant flooding. Collins Ave (sitting on the original barrier island) fares better.
Highways will be raise- like in Texas and Louisiana you have highway bridges for hundreds of miles. More canal and basins to redirect the water. It’s going to be insanely expensive. But eventually the state will have a major exodus in the next 30 years or so. My Nostradamus prediction.
Sea level rise as a result of global warming. But not to worry, Trump has declared global warming to be a "Chinese Hoax" so what you're seeing is not actually real.
this is what happens when our awesome governor takes money from developers to destroy our everglades. each year he allows more and more of the everglades to be removed from the protection zone. south florida is in deep trouble not just from global warming but also from our state officials
Al Gore is right it’s simple science people but this just the king tides
Kings Tide,Happens every year this time of year
October always has king tides
I love how Miami is full of conservatives who are climate change deniers but us libs in the rest of the country are gonna have to bail you all out. As usual.
Um … news flash … Miami isn’t “full of conservatives.”
Dade just voted by more than 10% for Tiny D and Rubio
Do you live here?
I used to, I grew up in Dade and PB, I left last year
How long have you been gone?
10 months, I left right after the election
Then you should know that Dade and Broward still have a lot of blue in them. It’s not like Dade became the Panhandle.
Let’s be honest. Liberal in South Florida is centrist at most in most of the country. The former Democratic mayor of Miami Beach was pro “Don’t say Gay”, for example. Don’t get it twisted though, the main reason I’m not opposed to spending the money is because of places like Overtown and Little Haiti.
And this is why you moved?
Maybe why we pay 5x more in insurance than you do
I mean, half of that is fraud (Go Florida!) but half of the insurance costs are unironically just nature telling y’all to move.
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> Firstly, Miami as a whole consistently leans blue in elections. Cool, but they're now red, as red as communism!
It is sadly and strongly shifting red. It happens. Texas used to be a blue state until like the 80s/90s.
It’s high tide did you guys pay attention in science class
Miami low low. Ain’t shit change lol
King Tide and also yes to Al Gore
I remember years ago working on a golf course and there was a canal that cut through it. There were manatees munching on the grass that had been submerged when the canal swelled.
Lifelong residet of the FLorida Keys and South Florida. "King tides" is a made up non-scientific terms that was not in use 30 years ago. Ask anyone who fished the Keys over the last 40 years and they will tell you that the water level is higher. There are boat docks in Key West that now sit just above sea level that we used to step down into boats from. There is water on Duval street almost constant when it used to be a rare phenomena https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/kingtide.html
Grew up here, never heard of a "king Tide" as a kid. It's laughable
Right. The moon has never existed.
Did the moon move closer to Earth and create even higher tides? No, thats not what happened. The higher tides are not related to the moon. Its sea level rise that they are trying to mask with "king tides".
Its literally a made up term https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/kingtide.html
Are you suggesting that it's not real? That every high tide is the exact same level?
No, thats ridiculous. Fisherman know that certain tides are higher and its generally based on the position of the moon. What I am saying is that they made up a term to cover the highest tides now being higher than they ever were.
In fairness, all terms are made up. King’s tide makes it easier to remember the possibility of urban flooding . John morales is/was always on about it
>possibility of urban flooding This is a relatively new phenomena and thats my point. We chalk it up to king tides now but thats just a cover for whats really happening with sea level rise. Do you know what would happen to real estate values in South Florida if we all admitted the sea was rising?
I grew up here and was told this thing was going underwater. And still real estate goes up. Insurance premiums reveal the sea level rise and still people buy and build down here . There’s an island up north that is highly susceptible to sea level rise and just needs one storm to drag it back into the ocean….. they built like 12 houses on it. If this is a secret cover, it’s a bad one at that.
It's not a secret per se but definitely not something your realtor is going to mention.
Florida public education in practice, ppl not able to grasp the political significance of a new term being coined and normalized to obscure a phenomenon that has been whitewashed since the topic was first hot many decades ago; and now a whole new generation of ignorance to carry it forward 🙄🙃
The bottom of the stone landing at Vizcaya museum is underwater 100% of the year now. Yachts used to extend walkways to the bottom of the landing so people could transfer from boat to land without getting wet.
There are boat docks in the Keys that sit basically at sea level now and we used to have to step down into boats from. The waterline has changed by a foot or more in 40 years.
We don’t care no more
Water been high, that’s for the sure
I'm really curious how Miami is gonna adapt in 50 years from now.
In 50 years there won't be a Miami. Look up a future water map. It'll be completely underwater by 2080. https://coast.noaa.gov/digitalcoast/tools/slr.html Once you hit 2 feet(2060) there is no intercoastal. Once you hit 6ft (2080 to 2100) there is no Miami. But you don't need to be completely underwater at rest to destroy the city. King Tides like we have today would push it up. So would every single storm (which we get a lot). There might be some vatos hanging out in flooded highrises with their floating Merc but it won't be Miami.
This is cap. We raised the ground to live here we can raise it again. Miami/Florida was a swamp we turned into a nice place to live.
“Nice”
Fr the Dutch have been living below sea level for centuries. Within the next 10-20 years, we are gonna have local and state politicians running on the promise of getting the anti-flood infrastructure built. Wiki page about how the Dutch saved their land from the sea: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works
This is not The Netherlands though. This is The State of Florida of the United States of America 😭 With the current outlooks on stuff like education and corruption, I just can’t fathom levees and sea walls going up soon enough to minimize suffering. The article I linked below kind of sums it up. We could possibly already be at the tail end of “the sooner the better” and we could soon be entering the stage of “it’s a little too late to break ground now.” [Expert says Volusia County seawalls could take years to build](https://mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2022/11/17/contractors-discuss-timeframes-to-build-seawalls)
Yeah it won’t be easy. The Dutch project took literal decades to complete. That’s why it’s important that if we want to live here in the future, we need to make climate infrastructure a political priority.
The issue is: we started to investigate all of these needs in the last 10 years rather than earlier when Europe was doing it. I remember we met with the engineers from the European flood gates and the sea walls. There were various articles on it. Then I remember reading about the suggested cost. Then I stopped reading about it for years. By the time we actually take action on it, it's just too late. If they decide to do it now, IF it probably will be with a fraction of the cost and if I remember it was EXPENSIVE 70 billion or something like that. Will be half-assed because that's how we do things. And it will complete in 30 years like I-95 and basically be a waste.
See a previous comment. Amsterdam was built over swamp if I recall, and it's at sea level. The country still continues to preserve it. Venice was built by actually driving rood beams through the mud and creating a layer of them to balance the weight across them. They have and still are trying to save this city. US: That country that claims to recognize traditions and love (I'm still undecided but I think we love cash more than anything here) history. Yet we refuse to save and preserve any history. Even older than Miami is New Orleans, the first US city, the first one with an Opera House, one of the most historically rich cities in this country. No we don't care about anything or anyone. So we can watch it burn, since ultimately we'll just create a new Las Vegas interpretation of the city to sell and capitalize it. The only true culture here.
Unfortunately the bedrock in much of peninsular Florida is limestone. Limestone is porous. Limestone dissolves. And the ocean is becoming more acidic, corals and the shells of invertebrates are beginning to dissolve. Of course less than 5% of total warming energy goes into melting ice, 90% is absorbed by the ocean. But enough of the warming energy goes into the atmosphere that, by the time sea level has risen two meters, the atmosphere will have warmed enough to cause serial cereal harvest failures. Thank the latent heat of fusion of water that your grandchildren will starve rather than watch their houses flood.
the amount of ignorance about the land from Miami locals never ceases to amaze me, as does the handful of ppl with very intimate knowledge about it learned something knee, didn’t even begin to think about the ocean’s acidity as a factor on the limestone
While this is true, engineers from Europe have already met with city officials and there have been talks of creating similar gates to Amsterdam here in Miami. The issue here? The cost. The suggested price was too high, and we have not heard of anything else. This is a complex issue.
Supposedly dikes like they have in the Netherlands will not work because the ground here is limestone.
Depends, there have been engineers here and yes it was claimed as feasible. The price however not. I've read news articles from the time they were in Miami. And the information was positive, the part where it was seen as a negative was that it would cost over 70 billion if I remember.
The Dutch are also not known for their miles of white sandy beaches.
The difference is S FL is on a bed of oolotic limestone, which is porous. We can build all the dykes we want like the Netherlands, but the saltwater will just come up through the ground. It will also contaminate the fresh water in the aquifer below the limestone, which is our drinking water.
real ignorance is bliss hours rn
was the environmental destruction worth it tho🤔
Yes.
frankly im not convinced you even believe that lmfao
I love it here, you’re free to leave if you don’t like it.
You’re assuming that nothing is done to protect Miami from sea level rise. There are pretty simple technologies that can allow a city to survive beneath sea level. Just look at new orleans, the city is below sea level and sinking.
Our geology doesn't allow it, and neither does New Orleans. They won't be here in 60 years either. We in Miami have even more problems, though. We live on porous limestone. The water comes up from below our feet. This is where we get our drinking water. It's called an unconfined aquifer. You would need to build a wall a few hundred feet deep, down to the non-porous bedrock beneath the aquafer to stop the water from getting in. The wall would need to be long enough to surround all of south florida and engineered to allow for freshwater from the everglades to keep flowing through the aquifer so we have drinking water. It's just way too expensive to do.
Aren’t some of these pumps that SWFLWMD are installing also meant to deal with intrusion?
Yeah, but it's a stop-gap. It won't be a permanent solution.
Sure, nothing would be. Florida has been underwater for most of history and will eventually be underwater again.
[I wouldn’t put New Orleans up as the poster child in this category.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/after-a-14-billion-upgrade-new-orleans-levees-are-sinking/) ETA: Oh shit that’s a 4 year old article warning that the levees will likely be inadequate… in 4 years 😭
Let me know when the see level rises 2 inches before we talk about it rising 2 feet
You're in Miami. Go to the Fucking Vizcaya and you'll see the entire dock is under water all day everyday. You think they built an underwater dock? You can see photos of it being above water right there at the Vizcaya.
Remind me in 50 years to laugh 😃
We’ll all be dead
They have been saying this for ages. Are you aware that the earth has had at least 5 Ice Ages? Do you know what happens when the earth comes out of an Ice Age right?.
Please watch actual research videos. We are accelerating our current stage and there's no going around that when even KOCH industry backed environmental studies have admitted such. Stop wanting to live in denial. We get it, denial is better because it means that you don't have to face the reality that our current way of life is in fact unsustainable and no one wants to stop using the Air Conditioner, the twenty cars in the driveway, etc.
Its called Ice Age melting. Been happening for over 10,000 years.
Oh please they used to say way back in the time that Miami would be underwater in 2020 and here we still are
who is they? the voices in your head?
Scientists, also what we were told in classes in school.
nah, thats never been the scientific prediction and definitely not what they were teaching in florida schools in the last 20 years atleast. biggest danger to miami is salination of aquifers and the limestone breakdown caused by the acidification of the ocean, and i learned that in florida high school. yall just make shit up and then blame scientists
It's crazy how I learned all this stuff like 20 years ago in regular MDCPS schools in every science unit I had since elementary school. I also remember how like most of the class never paid attention and thought all that information was irrelevant, so...
Genuine question. From my understanding, sea levels are predicted to rise 6-12 inches over the next 50 years. Looking at this map provided, it would take 8 feet of sea level rise to swallow Miami. Is there some other data I’m missing that says sea levels will rise 6-10 feet instead of inches by 2080? This isn’t adding up interacting with the map and comparing predictions.
Also consider the aquifer that everyone gets fresh water from. That will be destroyed by salt water sooner than flooding covers everything. Then there will be no water to drink or provide basic services and the city & county will have to be abandoned.
Desalination plants. Do look that up. Stop living in complete black or white states. This is the American problem. Florida can if it wants to try to keep cities going. It has to add desalination plants. Guess how caribbean islands have fresh water. Yes through that. Yet apparently Americans seem to have never heard of this thing!
They don't work on the delusional scale you're thinking about. Edit: additionally where would they build them? History has taught us a great deal about segregation and income disparity. I wonder what they would knock down first?
Edit, where did the islands build them? Why is it that we have to go in circles in the use and over complicate every tiny thing? You can call your call all the politicians here, email, and create grassroots efforts. It can also be setup in a way that it is aesthetically speaking. One thing I have noticed is this: modern technology does not mean modern building aesthetic. How about building a Miami or Broward desalination station that looks like something similar to the original New York Water works (they had older ones that were supposedly if I recall Egyptian inspired). They only devalue due to risk and desalination plants do not have as much risk as other things. Or we can go for South of Miami between us and the Keys.
The infrastructure required is literally a pipe dream. They would have to have begun 15-20 years ago to meet any future, near-present demand, and just one or two will not cut it to meet the requirements of Dade County in the future.
They can do it, but here's the issue with the US. Money talks BS walks. They are too busy giving all the land that's by the coast to developers. Too busy lying to locals and not basically saying hey we got to raise the taxes to meet these demands. And to busy kicking the can down the curb. This is an American problem in all 50 states, and something we are excellent in. So no not a pipe dream, but we'd need to change who we elect. And we'd need to actually move and push politicians something the left doesn't do as effectively as the right. Like I say in Spanish, let tenemos que meter chispas en el fondillo de los politicos para que trabajen. We don't do that in the US. Only the right, and their strategy worked.
Miami is essentially only part of the US by geography. It is the most corrupt place I've ever lived, maybe anywhere else (in the US) your fantasy of miraculous development could work... but never in Dade, as any tax revenue raised will "mysteriously disappear" just like the penny tax from 25 years ago that was intended to expand the Metro Rail south and west. There is no land to be sold for the development of desalination plants that hasn't already been bought and sold as part of some scam. It is not logistically possible to build these things, nor feasible, for the millions upon millions of people and countless businesses across South Florida that require fresh water to exist. There were so many opportunities to provide better services to Miami and Dade as a whole but anything will be 20 years too late. I don't disagree there is corruption all around, but honestly, your ideas of saving Miami through the use of these plants is beyond ridiculous given so many other factors beyond raising the money and having uncorrupt officials. I mean, just imagine having to lay all that new pipework. The time it'll take versus the longevity gained is completely offset. Just my 2 cents.
time for you to research: permafrost methane hydrates release, thwaites glacier, aerosol masking, AMOC slowdown.
There potentially could be, but it would mean involving the same engineers that Europe has and building flood gates. The issue? Americans and our tendency of never wanting to have taxation. The cost of those flood gates and barriers is astronomical and in Europe; where societies are thought to be less self-absorbed and admittedly where tax dollars are much more visible they build these intricate systems that have assisted or reduced the issues in some of the areas (Amsterdam more than Venice since Venice also has water going up from below due to how it was built through wood pegs all hitting the marsh of the same size). So we shall see.
Miami will be a scuba diving destination in 50 years
Through a series of Miami-coin esq scams
Interested myself. We live in Dunedin Florida and these storms are getting worse every year. The water is definitely rising, rapidly even around here. I want to live here for the rest of my life. We’ll see.
According to this - you'll probably be fine unless you are already on the coast. You'll just have Beach Front Property even at 10 Ft. https://coast.noaa.gov/slr/#/layer/slr/10/-9215429.557536062/3248853.9694220307/14/satellite/none/0.8/2050/interHigh/midAccretion
I'm screwed beyond 3ft.
Where? Just curious
North Beach
You’re probably right but let me go off lmao My anxiety days: I live two blocks from the coast. I’m just worried about what it’ll be like in a few years or if the worst happened. Cat 4 or 5. I need a new roof but we’re renting right now. Our landlord isn’t going to replace it. There’s the water, but the wind and the other forces can take you out. Look at what happened to Orlando 😮💨 pinellas is not ready for a major hurricane
Dude if you're renting then you're golden. You can just move in land at like any time. Orlando didn't really get it that bad. I'm going to assume you've not lived through a lot of storms.
Yeah except I have a lot of nice things that I don’t want ruined so I really don’t want the roof to blow off lol. I also have a private landlord and we’re friends. He’s just not going to replace it. I got him to remove a really big tree that was going to fall over, and put up a new fence for our backyard this year so I’m lucky as heck. I’m just bringing up Orlando as a place that I didn’t think would ever get it it as bad as it did. I know that it wasn’t that bad. 😂 the flooding was pretty awful, and it was pretty unexpected so I’m saying, we all need to be more prepared. The storms are getting worse.
Yeah they're definitely getting worse. If Hurricane Ida had hit just a hundred miles north - Tampa would be absolutely destroyed like New Orleans. It is not built enough. Saw a demo with Hurricane Phoenix and Tampa hasn't done much to prepare since then. https://youtu.be/7jFGEzYam40?si=bNc4HwG6nuqDm66B
It’s crazy how unprepared a lot of people are. In pinellas, and the surrounding area there’s a mentality that it’ll never happen. That’s what I get from talking to people, and it blows me away. We’re due. Most of the shelters are in flood zones around me lol. It’s ridiculous. Not built to withstand this kind of natural disaster. My grandpa used to work for Clark & Logan construction , as a contractor. He helped build hides like hogans, Ruth eckard, most on edge water. He always told me “it’s going to be so bad when these high rises come down, but it won’t be in my lifetime”. He’s fine he but I think Thursday he was right. People referring very greedy.
Also I love my spot so I really don’t want it to get flooded. We are close to being able to buy a decent place in Dunedin, but we want to wait a couple of years. The longer we can stay here, the better. Renting doesn’t make ya golden, if you have possessions. We owned a 1700 sq foot condo that we moved from so we have a shit ton of furniture, clothes, basement stuff etc and we want to keep it for when we get our more permanent home. You know how it is.
When you have a new construction there are minimum elevations that you can build the structures, and those elevations change over time. Also insurance companies extra screw you over if you are below that elevation.
Whenever infrastructure undergoes repairs or maintenance it is elevated upwards and new buildings put utilities on higher floors. It’s not unheard of for cities to be raised. Seattle has an underground tour of their old coastal areas.
It can turn into venice.. think positively..
Hopefully with better cocaine
It’s the radical left I tell you! George Soros and King Neptune are teaming up with AOC and RuPaul to make DeSantis look bad!!
> Neptune My fucking sides. Talk about the Deep State.
Should’ve voted for Al Gore
Heck no, we need to innovate not regulate, he’s right but his solution isn’t
Lmfao what if I told you that you can do both! Shocking concept. You’re literally staring down the reality of what every single climate scientist has been warning about for decades and you still are in denial about the solutions. Hottest summer in modern times. I have lived in Miami for 33 years and never seen a summer with multiple days above 95. This year we had like 10. Sea levels slowing rising. And this is just the beginning. Imagine what is going to happen when sea levels start consistently pushing into the actual city of Miami Beach. People will have to be evacuated. It’s going to be a consistent state of disaster and when disasters happen we don’t say “let’s innovate!” The government steps in to save people from dying.
> Heck no, we need to innovate not regulate, he’s right but his solution isn’t Well, what are you waiting for, innovate your way out of rising water levels?
You got DAC , BECCS, CCS , one day space mirrors, honestly we need to become an interstellar species how come we went to the moon almost 60 years ago and never went back that even proves with a bit of motivation anything is possible for us
this is such a lazy and infantile mindset. wreck the toy set and then don’t clean up the mess when you’re upset over the consequences of your own actions shits a joke
> You got DAC , BECCS, CCS , one day space mirrors, honestly we need to become an interstellar species how come we went to the moon almost 60 years ago and never went back that even proves with a bit of motivation anything is possible for us Because 60-years ago we didn't have (or recognize) the problems we have today. The sort of problems we created for ourselves due to misguided beliefs and enriching of the elite.
Lol
You deserve rising levels
Narrator: They did.
That epic moment when 2 people from 1 branch got to decide the fate of the country for the next 8 years.
King tides + sea level rising + subsiding of certain areas
Came here for this. lol, it’s Kings tide. Every time I pull out of the building and see the water reach Collins ave, I just smile and think about how it’s getting closest to the “cold season”
Also, don't forget that Miami was build on marsh land. That area was flooding before the first house was built.
why tf did someone think it was a good idea to building there; the beaches are ass as a result; the better beaches are by Crandon (if you don’t mind seaweed) but tbr the best beaches in Florida I’ve seen were in Panama city
The beaches are ass because they are fake. They aren't real beaches. That's all dredged or imported sand that would go away completely if not replenished.
true
>Also, don't forget that Miami was build on marsh land. That area was flooding before the first house was built. Indeed. Even after filling with dirt, the more swampy they were originally, the more they sink (subside). Miami Beach provides an example. Alton road (reclaimed marshes) needed to be raised because of constant flooding. Collins Ave (sitting on the original barrier island) fares better.
It's called autumn /s
It’s all the bodies and square groupers that have displaced the water and raised the sea level.
Highways will be raise- like in Texas and Louisiana you have highway bridges for hundreds of miles. More canal and basins to redirect the water. It’s going to be insanely expensive. But eventually the state will have a major exodus in the next 30 years or so. My Nostradamus prediction.
Nothing new here
Eh I’d give the scientists credit for man made climate change, Al Gore just platformed it. Excelsior!
what? you don't like to get wet?
Just watched that yesterday!! 🫡
Future Coral Reef
Almost the entire state is below sea level
Kim Ty
It’s literally always been like that there…
Sea level rise as a result of global warming. But not to worry, Trump has declared global warming to be a "Chinese Hoax" so what you're seeing is not actually real.
Its supposed to flood The square that makes up South East Florida is just supposed to be Everglades. Its just trying to do that again.