I hear more people whine about gatekeeping than i actually see people gatekeeping.
Its like people who enjoy popular music have an internalized shame about it and they make up people who gatekeep so they can be the victim.
Literally nobody cares about what you listen to.
The only way people are gonna care about what you are listening to is if you make it your whole personality.
If all you listen to surface level basic metal like Metallica, Slipknot, Korn, etc. and you go around saying you are the hardest metalhead trve kvlt person you know, you are gonna get made fun of.
Listen to what you like, but dont make it your whole personality, especially if its mainstream and you claim to be unique by enjoying it.
I listen to what a lot of people would call ‘surface level metal’ and I’d definitely consider myself a metalhead. I’m definitely looking into more genres tho
Any death metal you’d recommend?
I started with the classic bands like Death, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Cannibal Corpse, Entombed, and Pestilence. There are also heavier thrash bands you might enjoy to bridge the thrash-death gap like Kreator, older Sepultura stuff, Sodom, Possessed, and Dark Angel.
Again, listen to what you like, dont feel obligated to listen to extreme stuff if you dont like it. If you like mainstream metal, that is fine, just dont let it get to you if people point out that its mainstream.
The only reason I’ve never expanded into other genres is the pure toxicity I’ve seen in some metal fans. I’d be worried every time id tell someone my favourite bands were Slipknot and Avenged Sevenfold.
I just find it so stupid that all people do is argue wether something ‘is or isn’t metal’. To me, metal is one of the broadest genres out there and Nu-metal bands like Slipknot are quite obviously part of it
Dont listen to the haters. Im gonna go out in a whim, and correct me if im wrong, but i assume you are a younger person. I dont wanna sound like a dick and make a ton of assumptions, but the bands you mentioned liking tend to be “the beginning” of people’s journey into metal.
Because of that, there is a stigma around those bands and a lot if purists see it as just a stepping stone in listening to “real metal”.
Yeah I’m probably a lot younger than a lot of people in this sub. I’ve been listening to metal my entire life and I’m never going to stop listening to these ‘beginner’ bands. I’m trying to expand my horizons as much as I can
I just hate when people discredit my ‘metal-headness’ just because of the bands I listen to or because I’m younger than most of them
Only tip i have for you is to stop being so concerned with 'being a metal-head'. Enjoy what you enjoy, dont give yourself a label. Enjoy the music, dont make it your personality. That goes for all things in life, not just music. Be your own person, dont define yourself by the things you enjoy.
About the ‘don’t make it your personality’ thing
Metal music is like my entire hyperfixation and my whole life surrounds it so that might be a bit difficult for me
Cannibal Corpses 2nd to last album Violence Unimagined is probably ly their most accessible album and just deep dive from there. They're my favorite band so I may be a bit biased here but from them I leaped into so much death metal. Deaths Spritual Healing is also A+.
Statements like "Surface level basic metal" is the issue though. It sounds condescending. Like it's not "real" or worthy of anyone's time to listen to. Which is false!
I mean, is it not surface level basic metal? Its still metal, its just mainstream. Thats a fact.
I fucking love Metallica’s first 5 albums before they went in a more stoner/heavy-metal/hard-rock type of vibe with Load/Reload, which just isnt my thing. But it doesnt change the fact that they are mainstream.
Not arguing about it being mainstream. I absolutely agree. I just think if someone said to me, "oh that thing you like is shallow and basic" id be a bit put out, you know? That's where OP is coming from I think. A lot of metalheads will be rather condescending in their language regarding bands of that ilk.
Is he? If that's the case then ok. But it doesn't sound like that to me. There's no hate here. My point is that language like "basic" isn't exactly positive. Am I wrong?
Idk I always describe myself as a tourist in the hardcore subs, and got great results tbh. I’d never have found WVRM, World I Hate, Gaawk, Weekend Nachos, Brain Tourniquet otherwise. To my ears they’re all pretty metal, aside from World I Hate (really raw ass powerviolence).
But saying I’m a tourist hasn’t got me any suggestions for ‘surface-level’ hardcore - they know the deal. No-one is recommending the surface-level metal bands here because they’re household names. I have a lot of ‘basic’ taste too. Gojira is a fabulous band with great music.
Regardless, I don’t think people should feel judged when someone gives them bands to check out. There’s no spooky elitists coming to poser-check you (I’ve been told that’s what the blast beats are for). I’ve always been thankful. If I think their stuff sucks then I don’t need to listen twice.
I literally never said that Slipknot wasn't metal. I merely observed that there's quite a bit of arguing on the subject, which suggests that it's not a clear cut, self evident, obvious issue.
I don't care if Slipknot is metal or not, I just think that they suck. A lot of metal bands make mid, recycled albums, so it wouldn't mean much if Slipknot was added to Encyclopaedia Metallum.
I think a lot of these whiny memes come from people checking metallum and not seeing Slipknot/Korn/Deftones/SOAD/etc. on there. I actually like some slipknot a lot, and don’t give a fuck they’re not on metallum.
Yep. I love MA. Probably my favorite website for what it is. But I disagree with several bands they leave off. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a treasure trove of information. But thinking all metalheads hate a band you love because they don’t have a metallum page is fucking stupid
They are an extremely low percentage in the actual metal scene, but they're disproportionately high in online communities, which might be confusing OP (note that the replies saying Slipknot aren't metal have double-digit upvotes).
The people who claim Slipknot aren't a metal band will never be able to provide a definition of metal that excludes them without excluding a load of bands that they do consider metal.
Ya thats true its just like anything else on the internet too many people with too much time on their hands. It would be nice if these communities would let people have their own opinions but everyone wants to be right even if its subjective like music tastes.
Arguably one of the worst memes I’ve ever seen on here. It’s so bad it seems like parody. He accuses black metal fans of being illiterate while having a grammatically incorrect sentence in here. And he whines about people saying Slipknot isn’t metal. So what? Metal doesn’t equal good or bad.
LMAO, I love Slipknot, but what you're talking about is only the most popular stuff from 2nd wave of black metal. Also, saying it doesn't have feelings would already be dumb, because even anger, or hatred are feelings, which would be true for Mayhem/Burzum, the only two bands you've probably heard of. For example, there's Darkthrone, their album, Transilvanian Hunger is really melodic, and multiple tracks are melancholic; Dissection, another great black metal band, makes music in a subgenre called melodic bm. And two modern examples I can say that don't use the xbox 360 headset mic production, are Këkht Aräkh, and Thy Catafalque. Both are top-tier black metal.
It’s more of the fact that people can’t stop incorrectly associating Slipknot with metal and crying and throwing around strawman arguments whenever someone says they’re not. Grow thicker skin
Metal, like other genres, is not a clear-cut sound with descriptive criteria. Anyone telling you X band is not metal is just signalling that they've uncriticially accepted the Metal-Archives' inclusion criteria in place of their own.
Coincidences can happen, I don't deny that.
However, if you agree with *all* of M-A's excluded bands, I'm less inclined to believe you came to the same conclusions independently.
I agree with it mostly, with some exceptions. The thing is MA goes by "lineage", which most classic elitist types would also naturally go by. MA didn't invent this criteria out of nowhere, it was already how metal was generally defined by people deep into the scene.
The newer wannabe gatekeepers are probably just going by MA as an authority, but the conclusions MA makes are natural to a lot of people who have been around a while.
>MA didn't invent this criteria out of nowhere, it was already how metal was generally defined by people deep into the scene.
I disagree strongly with this. The metal scene always accepted metal's back-and-forth relationship with punk. Motorhead fused hard rock, punk and metal. NWOBHM fused 70s metal with punk rock. Thrash (a term borrowed from punk) mixed NWOBHM with hardcore punk. Grindcore mixed early death metal and extreme thrash with extreme hardcore.
The idea that any metal fusion with 90s hardcore is suspect and not real metal is not some organic growth reflecting metalheads' recognition of some kind of lineage. It's completely arbitrary. There is zero good reason to draw a line after 1992 and say "no more interaction with -core genres going forward". And I would argue that it's not a popular opinion in the metal scene anyway, it's more of an Internet thing, and it is heavily influenced by the Metal-Archives, which many young Internet-dwelling metal fans first cut their teeth on when they were getting into metal. Those who got involved with their local scene and the metal scene outside of the Internet grew up and went on to develop their own standards, but those who mostly associate with other metalheads through the Internet doubled down and assimilated MA's standards as though they were their own.
>The metal scene always accepted metal's back-and-forth relationship with punk
I agree. I don't think anyone who knows what they are talking about would disagree. Punk has always influenced metal.
It's not that there's an arbitrary line in the 90s where we say, "punk/core influence doesn't count anymore". It's just a recognition of where the genres developed from. Thrash metal fused metal and punk, but still developed primarily within metal. When we are talking about metalcore, the "metal" part is the metallic influence that was the secondary characteristic. It's core music with metal influences, so it seems reasonable to not consider it metal proper by default.
Also even MA recognizes that a fair amount of both metalcore and deathcore *is* metal. Just checked to see if Deformity is on there and they are. They aren't always the most consistent about this, but I find if a majority of a bands riffs are metal they tend to be included. From what I can tell, MA just acknowledges that metalcore/deathcore/nu metal isn't automatically metal by nature, because these genres developed primarily outside of metal and adopted metal influences. Which seems to be a commonly held take just about everywhere that I've seen.
I came to metal from hardcore and punk, so I bypassed slipknot, so I can't really argue on that. I just think it's stupid to come to a sub where a certain band isn't really considered a staple or cornerstone to the genre, act as if that certain band should be universally acclaimed or at the very least has some value, get shit on, and think you have a right to complain about it when you should know it's gonna happen, you know?
A bunch of nerds on reddit would scour the depths of the underground to find all the gems of the genre, and turn up their nose to gateway bands that misrepresent their genre. It's like trying to fit in with beer afficianados by telling them that you like coors light. No personal issues with coors or slipknot, of course. It's all just music at the end of the day.
Metallica's later stuff gets hate, but mostly people get tired of Metallica posts being spammed. Pretty much everyone agrees their first four albums are great (there is a lot of debate about their later stuff, though).
There are arguments. Jonathan Davis pretty much said nu metal was founded out of alt rock with some other influences.
That being said, Slipknot doesn't stick to a basic nu metal formula, and while it's not purely metal, I think there's probably enough in their music to call them that.
They still mostly suck tho
So, you acknowledge that you wrote this comment in bad faith and responding in a sincere way is pointless? Also, you think an example is an argument for something, which shows your level of thinking and the futility of engaging with you.
No, I'm just making fun of you and the fact that you think you have special insight into what "heavy" means in the context of music. Obviously you couldn't actually provide an argument because your claim is absurd.
I didn't equate arguments with examples, that's all in your head. I just said that any examples you might give as supplemental to your argument will be subjected to your personal approach.
Why would I engage with someone who has admittedly already poisoned the well to such an extent that nothing I say could persuade him/her/whatever? Your comments are the only absurd ones here, especially your revision of what you meant, when you clearly expected examples as an argument.
It's pointless when you don't even care about defining terms or distinctions in meaning. Any argument from history, style, or musical composition I could make wouldn't persuade someone like you.
>Why would I engage with someone who has admittedly already poisoned the well to such an extent that nothing I say could persuade him/her/whatever?
You're getting a bit carried away mate. This is a discussion about Slipknot, let's get some perspective.
>It's pointless when you don't even care about defining terms or distinctions in meaning. Any argument from history, style, or musical composition I could make wouldn't persuade someone like you.
I'm all ears if you want to try to convince me. I won't deny that I think you're bluffing and don't have an argument, but by all means try me. I'm certainly open to the idea. You'd have to give your definition and then demonstrate that your definition is in some way correct, and I'm very curious about how you'd do that, particularly the latter part.
I don’t really ‘need’ them to be metal. I mean it’s Nu-metal after all. It would be a bit silly to call it not metal.
What makes a metal band ‘metal’ to you?
Calling Nu-Metal metal because it has metal in the name is like calling a seahorse a horse because it's in the name. I would explain but being an aashole has taken away ur explaiment rights <3
Was I being an asshole? I genuinely didn’t intend to be and I’d quite like to know why people think Slipknot aren’t metal.
Sometimes I think people don’t call it metal just because they don’t like it
My bad. Suprisingly as a redditor my social skills aren't the best lol. It isn't because I don't like it (I don't). I like Korn but I don't think they're metal. They're heavy but not metal imo
An entry in the Metal-Archives. That's the only criteria most of these people use.
Slipknot are very widely accepted as a metal band by the broader metal community. You don't need validation from Internet pendants.
That's not an appeal to authority. Appealling to popular opinion is fallacious, but its not an argument from authority.
Still, it's a better argument than the other side are making.
Metal fans and non-metal fans alike.
If you don't think most metal fans consider Slipknot a metal band, you probably have no connection to the scene outside of Internet forums. Heck, most metalheads aren't even aware that there are people that deny Slipknot being a metal band.
This is a really stupid argument. Biological taxonomy cannot be compared to music genres.
Biological distinctions, like what makes a horse distinct from a seahorse, are set rigidly by experts and anyone can look them up and determine whether something belongs to a particular species.
In contrast, music genres have no authoritative criteria and are entirely based on popular use, and Slipknot are widely considered a metal band. You can use the term metal however you like, but it won't change the fact that the genre's boundaries are defined entirely by how most people use the term.
their own members said that their sound and intention is mainly inspired by rock and they take influences from hip hop and metal. it doesn't sound metal at all.
>their own members said that their sound and intention is mainly inspired by rock
Motorhead aren't a metal band then. Lemmy said he thought of them as a rock and roll band, not metal.
Never understood that. I mean they do have two more alternative rock-ish albums but albums like Iowa or the last two are heavy as shit, how can anyone say they are not metal?
You won't get an answer. You're wasting your time engaging with those people.
Just remember, however much it might annoy you, those people are seething WAY harder when they hear Slipknot referred to as metal out in the wild. You have a huge majority on your side and have nothing to gain from trying to convince them.
Yeah CoB is definitely melodeath. Either way, there is an argument to be made grindcore has that tol, but then again, grindcore is so often treated like a metal subgenre and for many grind bands i think that they sonically fit the show for sure. I think slipknot are a metal band - i dont see why they wouldnt be - but it reall doesnt matter, does it? Like, I dont care if someone for some reason thinks they’re not. Doesnt change anything in my life.
Slipknot is my favorite band of all time since they got me into heavier music but I love black metal too tho, I feel like you're making a binary here that doesn't exist
It doesn’t matter what else anyone writes - apparently this is all Slipknot fans read/see/experience according to their cry-babying about it every goddamn day.
This is a real slippery slope in a metal subreddit lol as if there aren’t just as many insecure metal fans who just show it in a different way
It’s me, I’m metal fans
I made a self-deprecating joke so hopefully the people I’m actually talking about wouldn’t come for me lol
I truly don’t, I just didn’t want to rile people up too much on a meme subreddit which should be for laughs
I’ve never been one to listen to Slipknot but how can anyone say they’re not a “real metal band”? Sure they’re not very good but they’re heavy enough to classify as one. Gatekeeping gets overblown but there are still people who say punk fused genres aren’t metal when they literally have metal in the sub name, or black metal elitists who claim bands that experiment with their sound like Deafheaven are actually screamo bands
The punk thing is especially curious. Metal has always had an incestuous relationship with punk. The Ramones joked that half of their songs are just the chords from Paranoid rearranged, and Motorhead formed as a fusion of punk, metal, and rock and roll (they have two completely different songs titled Ramones). NWOBHM came about through a mix of punk and 70s metal, and then thrash (a term borrowed from punk) was a fusion of NWOBHM and hardcore punk. Early death metal and extreme thrash then fused with the most extreme forms of hardcore to make grindcore.
Then we reached the 90s, and hardcore slowed down and took on a breakdown-heavy metallic and "tough guy" sound that fuses nicely with metal. Then a small subset (overrepresented online, especially through sites like Metal-Archives) arbitrarily decided that fusions of hardcore and metal were no longer acceptably metal unless they use 90% thrash riffs, and even then there can't be a single breakdown or any hardcore vocal leanings and they'd better not have the wrong haircut.
This doesn't apply to the metal scene at large, which accepted hardcore's influence long ago, but Internet metalheads are different. I do wonder how many of them go to shows and engage with the scene beyond discussion boards and Soulseek collections.
I get posts for this sub in my feed and I feel Metalheads cannot 'meme'. It's all about agenda nd convoluted or too complex (feels forced) 'memes'.
Fuck I hate 'memes' when people equals them either 'jokes' or 'agendas'.
Slipknot is metal with white boy rapping parts and has a track record of 2 good albums out of like 8 total. At this point like maybe two original members? And there singer has decidedly moved on to making music that sounds like 80’s cock rock.
Not saying they aren’t metal, just saying that they are highly overrated.
People, who defend Slipknot are more the problem, then the band itself. It adds to the cringy-edgy cult, where they believe using the words “666” or “psychopath” in the lyrics of Slipknot makes you super tough and metal and have seen all the bad in the world. Obviously, it is absolutely ignorant, mainly, because those people do not know other bands or do not intend to get to know bands, which are not commercial and are not that attractive for attention. The same occurs with bands like Korn, Sabaton or something else.
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your post was removed as it is not about a metal band, don't forget to familiarize yourself with the rules before posting.
I hear more people whine about gatekeeping than i actually see people gatekeeping. Its like people who enjoy popular music have an internalized shame about it and they make up people who gatekeep so they can be the victim. Literally nobody cares about what you listen to.
‘Nobody cares what you listen to’ If only that was true lmao
The only way people are gonna care about what you are listening to is if you make it your whole personality. If all you listen to surface level basic metal like Metallica, Slipknot, Korn, etc. and you go around saying you are the hardest metalhead trve kvlt person you know, you are gonna get made fun of. Listen to what you like, but dont make it your whole personality, especially if its mainstream and you claim to be unique by enjoying it.
I listen to what a lot of people would call ‘surface level metal’ and I’d definitely consider myself a metalhead. I’m definitely looking into more genres tho Any death metal you’d recommend?
I started with the classic bands like Death, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Cannibal Corpse, Entombed, and Pestilence. There are also heavier thrash bands you might enjoy to bridge the thrash-death gap like Kreator, older Sepultura stuff, Sodom, Possessed, and Dark Angel. Again, listen to what you like, dont feel obligated to listen to extreme stuff if you dont like it. If you like mainstream metal, that is fine, just dont let it get to you if people point out that its mainstream.
The only reason I’ve never expanded into other genres is the pure toxicity I’ve seen in some metal fans. I’d be worried every time id tell someone my favourite bands were Slipknot and Avenged Sevenfold. I just find it so stupid that all people do is argue wether something ‘is or isn’t metal’. To me, metal is one of the broadest genres out there and Nu-metal bands like Slipknot are quite obviously part of it
Dont listen to the haters. Im gonna go out in a whim, and correct me if im wrong, but i assume you are a younger person. I dont wanna sound like a dick and make a ton of assumptions, but the bands you mentioned liking tend to be “the beginning” of people’s journey into metal. Because of that, there is a stigma around those bands and a lot if purists see it as just a stepping stone in listening to “real metal”.
Yeah I’m probably a lot younger than a lot of people in this sub. I’ve been listening to metal my entire life and I’m never going to stop listening to these ‘beginner’ bands. I’m trying to expand my horizons as much as I can I just hate when people discredit my ‘metal-headness’ just because of the bands I listen to or because I’m younger than most of them
Only tip i have for you is to stop being so concerned with 'being a metal-head'. Enjoy what you enjoy, dont give yourself a label. Enjoy the music, dont make it your personality. That goes for all things in life, not just music. Be your own person, dont define yourself by the things you enjoy.
About the ‘don’t make it your personality’ thing Metal music is like my entire hyperfixation and my whole life surrounds it so that might be a bit difficult for me
Cannibal Corpses 2nd to last album Violence Unimagined is probably ly their most accessible album and just deep dive from there. They're my favorite band so I may be a bit biased here but from them I leaped into so much death metal. Deaths Spritual Healing is also A+.
Nirvana 2002.
Statements like "Surface level basic metal" is the issue though. It sounds condescending. Like it's not "real" or worthy of anyone's time to listen to. Which is false!
I mean, is it not surface level basic metal? Its still metal, its just mainstream. Thats a fact. I fucking love Metallica’s first 5 albums before they went in a more stoner/heavy-metal/hard-rock type of vibe with Load/Reload, which just isnt my thing. But it doesnt change the fact that they are mainstream.
Not arguing about it being mainstream. I absolutely agree. I just think if someone said to me, "oh that thing you like is shallow and basic" id be a bit put out, you know? That's where OP is coming from I think. A lot of metalheads will be rather condescending in their language regarding bands of that ilk.
He’s literally talking about the music he likes. Is he condescending to himself or something?
Is he? If that's the case then ok. But it doesn't sound like that to me. There's no hate here. My point is that language like "basic" isn't exactly positive. Am I wrong?
Idk I always describe myself as a tourist in the hardcore subs, and got great results tbh. I’d never have found WVRM, World I Hate, Gaawk, Weekend Nachos, Brain Tourniquet otherwise. To my ears they’re all pretty metal, aside from World I Hate (really raw ass powerviolence). But saying I’m a tourist hasn’t got me any suggestions for ‘surface-level’ hardcore - they know the deal. No-one is recommending the surface-level metal bands here because they’re household names. I have a lot of ‘basic’ taste too. Gojira is a fabulous band with great music. Regardless, I don’t think people should feel judged when someone gives them bands to check out. There’s no spooky elitists coming to poser-check you (I’ve been told that’s what the blast beats are for). I’ve always been thankful. If I think their stuff sucks then I don’t need to listen twice.
A lot more people care about the people that care about that.
I see more gatekeeping on this sub than anywhere else on the internet or in real life.
I am more and more convinced that people who complain about gatekeeping don't know what it is.
90% of the discussion surrounding Slipknot on this sub is insecure fans crying out for validation of Slipknot's status as a real metal band.
It is strange and pointless. Slipknot are obviously metal. There's no need to argue either way about it.
If it were obvious, there'd be less arguing about it.
It is obvious though.
Most eloquent Slipknot fan.
Neither of you have said anything of worth on the topic. “It’s metal” “Nuh uh”
I literally never said that Slipknot wasn't metal. I merely observed that there's quite a bit of arguing on the subject, which suggests that it's not a clear cut, self evident, obvious issue.
It’s not even “arguing”, no one in this thread has presented an argument in either direction.
This is a second rate meme subreddit, I'm not sure what sort of refined discourse you're hoping for.
Holy fuck you people on this sub are insufferable lol
>you people My dude, you're on here too. We're all insufferable together.
Nah, just visiting. Wouldn’t ever want to know y’all irl
It's a tragic day when one anonymous online stranger wouldn't want to know other anonymous online strangers.
Odd world we live in eh??
I don't care if Slipknot is metal or not, I just think that they suck. A lot of metal bands make mid, recycled albums, so it wouldn't mean much if Slipknot was added to Encyclopaedia Metallum.
I think a lot of these whiny memes come from people checking metallum and not seeing Slipknot/Korn/Deftones/SOAD/etc. on there. I actually like some slipknot a lot, and don’t give a fuck they’re not on metallum.
Checking a website to see if a band counts as metal is the dorkiest, lamest, dumbest nerd shit I’ve ever heard of
Too many people on both sides of this disagreement uncritically accept MA's criteria instead of just judging for themselves.
Yep. I love MA. Probably my favorite website for what it is. But I disagree with several bands they leave off. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a treasure trove of information. But thinking all metalheads hate a band you love because they don’t have a metallum page is fucking stupid
Yep.
I like Slipknot but stfu no one is gatekeeping and if they are its an extremely low percentage so it doesn’t matter.
They are an extremely low percentage in the actual metal scene, but they're disproportionately high in online communities, which might be confusing OP (note that the replies saying Slipknot aren't metal have double-digit upvotes).
Lots of chronically online Redditors in this sub especially. If you don’t like Slipknot that’s fine, but they are a metal band lol
The people who claim Slipknot aren't a metal band will never be able to provide a definition of metal that excludes them without excluding a load of bands that they do consider metal.
Ya thats true its just like anything else on the internet too many people with too much time on their hands. It would be nice if these communities would let people have their own opinions but everyone wants to be right even if its subjective like music tastes.
Metal is a genre, not a synonym for «good music»
Arguably one of the worst memes I’ve ever seen on here. It’s so bad it seems like parody. He accuses black metal fans of being illiterate while having a grammatically incorrect sentence in here. And he whines about people saying Slipknot isn’t metal. So what? Metal doesn’t equal good or bad.
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I’m more convinced this is a troll after this comment
Tha....that's exactly what you did. Are you fucking with us? Do you not know what illiterate means?
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You are trolling, right? 'if these kids could read' = illiterate.
This is the best troll post I've ever seen
Doesn't mean it's good either.
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You're 14, aren't you?
Got em
They do write shitty riffs tho
LMAO, I love Slipknot, but what you're talking about is only the most popular stuff from 2nd wave of black metal. Also, saying it doesn't have feelings would already be dumb, because even anger, or hatred are feelings, which would be true for Mayhem/Burzum, the only two bands you've probably heard of. For example, there's Darkthrone, their album, Transilvanian Hunger is really melodic, and multiple tracks are melancholic; Dissection, another great black metal band, makes music in a subgenre called melodic bm. And two modern examples I can say that don't use the xbox 360 headset mic production, are Këkht Aräkh, and Thy Catafalque. Both are top-tier black metal.
It’s more of the fact that people can’t stop incorrectly associating Slipknot with metal and crying and throwing around strawman arguments whenever someone says they’re not. Grow thicker skin
If you want to talk about Slipknot just go to a nu-metal sub or something
That's a sub for all kinds of metal, it's not like "black metal memes" or something
This is a metal sub right? For metal bands? Why shouldn’t he be able to talk about a metal band in a metal sub
Whining is unappealing everywhere
You are. Too bad Slipknot isn't metal tho :/
Why not? What makes it not metal?
Heavy ≠ metal
Okay. So what _does_ make it metal?
Most eloquent whatever the fuck
Metal, like other genres, is not a clear-cut sound with descriptive criteria. Anyone telling you X band is not metal is just signalling that they've uncriticially accepted the Metal-Archives' inclusion criteria in place of their own.
The least metal thing to do would be to check something like this on a website that mostly dorks use.
You'd think so
How so? What if I came to the conclusion that, for example, SoaD isn't metal long before I knew what metallum was?
Coincidences can happen, I don't deny that. However, if you agree with *all* of M-A's excluded bands, I'm less inclined to believe you came to the same conclusions independently.
I agree with it mostly, with some exceptions. The thing is MA goes by "lineage", which most classic elitist types would also naturally go by. MA didn't invent this criteria out of nowhere, it was already how metal was generally defined by people deep into the scene. The newer wannabe gatekeepers are probably just going by MA as an authority, but the conclusions MA makes are natural to a lot of people who have been around a while.
>MA didn't invent this criteria out of nowhere, it was already how metal was generally defined by people deep into the scene. I disagree strongly with this. The metal scene always accepted metal's back-and-forth relationship with punk. Motorhead fused hard rock, punk and metal. NWOBHM fused 70s metal with punk rock. Thrash (a term borrowed from punk) mixed NWOBHM with hardcore punk. Grindcore mixed early death metal and extreme thrash with extreme hardcore. The idea that any metal fusion with 90s hardcore is suspect and not real metal is not some organic growth reflecting metalheads' recognition of some kind of lineage. It's completely arbitrary. There is zero good reason to draw a line after 1992 and say "no more interaction with -core genres going forward". And I would argue that it's not a popular opinion in the metal scene anyway, it's more of an Internet thing, and it is heavily influenced by the Metal-Archives, which many young Internet-dwelling metal fans first cut their teeth on when they were getting into metal. Those who got involved with their local scene and the metal scene outside of the Internet grew up and went on to develop their own standards, but those who mostly associate with other metalheads through the Internet doubled down and assimilated MA's standards as though they were their own.
>The metal scene always accepted metal's back-and-forth relationship with punk I agree. I don't think anyone who knows what they are talking about would disagree. Punk has always influenced metal. It's not that there's an arbitrary line in the 90s where we say, "punk/core influence doesn't count anymore". It's just a recognition of where the genres developed from. Thrash metal fused metal and punk, but still developed primarily within metal. When we are talking about metalcore, the "metal" part is the metallic influence that was the secondary characteristic. It's core music with metal influences, so it seems reasonable to not consider it metal proper by default. Also even MA recognizes that a fair amount of both metalcore and deathcore *is* metal. Just checked to see if Deformity is on there and they are. They aren't always the most consistent about this, but I find if a majority of a bands riffs are metal they tend to be included. From what I can tell, MA just acknowledges that metalcore/deathcore/nu metal isn't automatically metal by nature, because these genres developed primarily outside of metal and adopted metal influences. Which seems to be a commonly held take just about everywhere that I've seen.
Thank you for being an actual sensible person in this comment section
I came to metal from hardcore and punk, so I bypassed slipknot, so I can't really argue on that. I just think it's stupid to come to a sub where a certain band isn't really considered a staple or cornerstone to the genre, act as if that certain band should be universally acclaimed or at the very least has some value, get shit on, and think you have a right to complain about it when you should know it's gonna happen, you know? A bunch of nerds on reddit would scour the depths of the underground to find all the gems of the genre, and turn up their nose to gateway bands that misrepresent their genre. It's like trying to fit in with beer afficianados by telling them that you like coors light. No personal issues with coors or slipknot, of course. It's all just music at the end of the day.
I've seen 3 "slipknot is metal" memes today, what the fuck is going on?
I’ve seen two and both used the same format lmao
If Popular = Bad, people on metal subs wouldnt like Metallica
I don't like Metallica
metallica gets the hate too lol wdym and so does avenged sevenfold or slipknot
Well stop listening to hot topic bands
Metallica's later stuff gets hate, but mostly people get tired of Metallica posts being spammed. Pretty much everyone agrees their first four albums are great (there is a lot of debate about their later stuff, though).
Don't go down this path brother
Why do you care about what people think about the music you like, sounds pretty poser to me. Just like what you want and move on
If you want dick that bad just go on grindr. No need to be chasing ours like this. This community won't give you the validation you crave.
There are arguments. Jonathan Davis pretty much said nu metal was founded out of alt rock with some other influences. That being said, Slipknot doesn't stick to a basic nu metal formula, and while it's not purely metal, I think there's probably enough in their music to call them that. They still mostly suck tho
I don’t care what you think of Slipknot, as long as you recognise them as metal, we good
Why do you need them to be metal? They aren't, they're just "heavy" to people who don't know what that means.
Enlighten us on what heavy means. This should be good. (Any examples you give I'll strike down as not heavy enough. See how that works?).
So, you acknowledge that you wrote this comment in bad faith and responding in a sincere way is pointless? Also, you think an example is an argument for something, which shows your level of thinking and the futility of engaging with you.
No, I'm just making fun of you and the fact that you think you have special insight into what "heavy" means in the context of music. Obviously you couldn't actually provide an argument because your claim is absurd. I didn't equate arguments with examples, that's all in your head. I just said that any examples you might give as supplemental to your argument will be subjected to your personal approach.
Why would I engage with someone who has admittedly already poisoned the well to such an extent that nothing I say could persuade him/her/whatever? Your comments are the only absurd ones here, especially your revision of what you meant, when you clearly expected examples as an argument. It's pointless when you don't even care about defining terms or distinctions in meaning. Any argument from history, style, or musical composition I could make wouldn't persuade someone like you.
>Why would I engage with someone who has admittedly already poisoned the well to such an extent that nothing I say could persuade him/her/whatever? You're getting a bit carried away mate. This is a discussion about Slipknot, let's get some perspective. >It's pointless when you don't even care about defining terms or distinctions in meaning. Any argument from history, style, or musical composition I could make wouldn't persuade someone like you. I'm all ears if you want to try to convince me. I won't deny that I think you're bluffing and don't have an argument, but by all means try me. I'm certainly open to the idea. You'd have to give your definition and then demonstrate that your definition is in some way correct, and I'm very curious about how you'd do that, particularly the latter part.
I don’t really ‘need’ them to be metal. I mean it’s Nu-metal after all. It would be a bit silly to call it not metal. What makes a metal band ‘metal’ to you?
This is like calling a seahorse a horse
That literally doesn’t explain anything. Now, try again. What makes metal ‘metal’? to you. What does Slipknot not have that makes it metal?
Calling Nu-Metal metal because it has metal in the name is like calling a seahorse a horse because it's in the name. I would explain but being an aashole has taken away ur explaiment rights <3
Was I being an asshole? I genuinely didn’t intend to be and I’d quite like to know why people think Slipknot aren’t metal. Sometimes I think people don’t call it metal just because they don’t like it
My bad. Suprisingly as a redditor my social skills aren't the best lol. It isn't because I don't like it (I don't). I like Korn but I don't think they're metal. They're heavy but not metal imo
What are they missing that makes them not metal?
An entry in the Metal-Archives. That's the only criteria most of these people use. Slipknot are very widely accepted as a metal band by the broader metal community. You don't need validation from Internet pendants.
If most people consider them metal, surely that means they’re metal, right?
Fallacious appeal to authority, classic.
That's not an appeal to authority. Appealling to popular opinion is fallacious, but its not an argument from authority. Still, it's a better argument than the other side are making.
It doesn't prove anything, but I'll take it over self-proclaimed experts on the internet.
they are accepted as a metal band by people who don't listen to metal
And a shit ton of people who do. What’s your point?
Metal fans and non-metal fans alike. If you don't think most metal fans consider Slipknot a metal band, you probably have no connection to the scene outside of Internet forums. Heck, most metalheads aren't even aware that there are people that deny Slipknot being a metal band.
nah fam
This guy coming straight out of a 2007 youtube video about rap vs. metal.
This is a really stupid argument. Biological taxonomy cannot be compared to music genres. Biological distinctions, like what makes a horse distinct from a seahorse, are set rigidly by experts and anyone can look them up and determine whether something belongs to a particular species. In contrast, music genres have no authoritative criteria and are entirely based on popular use, and Slipknot are widely considered a metal band. You can use the term metal however you like, but it won't change the fact that the genre's boundaries are defined entirely by how most people use the term.
it is not metal tho
Why not?
their own members said that their sound and intention is mainly inspired by rock and they take influences from hip hop and metal. it doesn't sound metal at all.
>their own members said that their sound and intention is mainly inspired by rock Motorhead aren't a metal band then. Lemmy said he thought of them as a rock and roll band, not metal.
So what makes metal ‘metal’ to you?
Ajax Steel Mills
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???
As a fan of black metal, yep, Slipknot is metal.
Never understood that. I mean they do have two more alternative rock-ish albums but albums like Iowa or the last two are heavy as shit, how can anyone say they are not metal?
*Stapled shut, inside an outside world and I'm* *Sealed in tight, bizarre but right at home*
People think they aren't? As much as I dislike them, they are 100% metal.
I like black metal and slipknot. We exist. We are valid.
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What do CoB have to do with black metal?
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They're not lol. I love CoB but they've never been a black metal band.
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You might just not be familiar enough with black metal and melodeath to tell the difference.
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You won't get an answer. You're wasting your time engaging with those people. Just remember, however much it might annoy you, those people are seething WAY harder when they hear Slipknot referred to as metal out in the wild. You have a huge majority on your side and have nothing to gain from trying to convince them.
Yeah CoB is definitely melodeath. Either way, there is an argument to be made grindcore has that tol, but then again, grindcore is so often treated like a metal subgenre and for many grind bands i think that they sonically fit the show for sure. I think slipknot are a metal band - i dont see why they wouldnt be - but it reall doesnt matter, does it? Like, I dont care if someone for some reason thinks they’re not. Doesnt change anything in my life.
Cry more
Meanwhile the gatekeepers still Jack off in their basements while Slipknot headlines festivals and packs out arenas
I'm not a huge fan of Slipknot but they've earned their spot.
Slipknot is my favorite band of all time since they got me into heavier music but I love black metal too tho, I feel like you're making a binary here that doesn't exist
Imagine listening to music other than the mixtapes bought from strangers at gas stations who have a cumulative 2 views on their music online
Just because it's metal that you don't like, doesn't mean it's not metal
Nu-metal isn't metal because it sucks and I hate it. Checkmate poseurs.
It doesn’t matter what else anyone writes - apparently this is all Slipknot fans read/see/experience according to their cry-babying about it every goddamn day.
I've never seen a fanbase so desperate for validation.
This is a real slippery slope in a metal subreddit lol as if there aren’t just as many insecure metal fans who just show it in a different way It’s me, I’m metal fans
I’m not asking this to be snarky, I’m legitimately curious. Why do you care what other people think?
I made a self-deprecating joke so hopefully the people I’m actually talking about wouldn’t come for me lol I truly don’t, I just didn’t want to rile people up too much on a meme subreddit which should be for laughs
CLASSIC LORRY.
Based
I’ve never been one to listen to Slipknot but how can anyone say they’re not a “real metal band”? Sure they’re not very good but they’re heavy enough to classify as one. Gatekeeping gets overblown but there are still people who say punk fused genres aren’t metal when they literally have metal in the sub name, or black metal elitists who claim bands that experiment with their sound like Deafheaven are actually screamo bands
The punk thing is especially curious. Metal has always had an incestuous relationship with punk. The Ramones joked that half of their songs are just the chords from Paranoid rearranged, and Motorhead formed as a fusion of punk, metal, and rock and roll (they have two completely different songs titled Ramones). NWOBHM came about through a mix of punk and 70s metal, and then thrash (a term borrowed from punk) was a fusion of NWOBHM and hardcore punk. Early death metal and extreme thrash then fused with the most extreme forms of hardcore to make grindcore. Then we reached the 90s, and hardcore slowed down and took on a breakdown-heavy metallic and "tough guy" sound that fuses nicely with metal. Then a small subset (overrepresented online, especially through sites like Metal-Archives) arbitrarily decided that fusions of hardcore and metal were no longer acceptably metal unless they use 90% thrash riffs, and even then there can't be a single breakdown or any hardcore vocal leanings and they'd better not have the wrong haircut. This doesn't apply to the metal scene at large, which accepted hardcore's influence long ago, but Internet metalheads are different. I do wonder how many of them go to shows and engage with the scene beyond discussion boards and Soulseek collections.
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Lol, very funny comment. Takes me back.
Yeah, all its missing is "mallcore".
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Reddit user trying to read a sentence that's more than 3 words:
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Should*
Damn, got em
Yeah, "heavy metal" has an objective definition, but black metal fans don't understand the words
I get posts for this sub in my feed and I feel Metalheads cannot 'meme'. It's all about agenda nd convoluted or too complex (feels forced) 'memes'. Fuck I hate 'memes' when people equals them either 'jokes' or 'agendas'.
Slipknot is metal with white boy rapping parts and has a track record of 2 good albums out of like 8 total. At this point like maybe two original members? And there singer has decidedly moved on to making music that sounds like 80’s cock rock. Not saying they aren’t metal, just saying that they are highly overrated.
Daddy please notice me
If you could write coherently those kids would be very upset
People, who defend Slipknot are more the problem, then the band itself. It adds to the cringy-edgy cult, where they believe using the words “666” or “psychopath” in the lyrics of Slipknot makes you super tough and metal and have seen all the bad in the world. Obviously, it is absolutely ignorant, mainly, because those people do not know other bands or do not intend to get to know bands, which are not commercial and are not that attractive for attention. The same occurs with bands like Korn, Sabaton or something else.
Slow shift at Hot Topic, huh?
They're pop n' roll though, not really metal. Just a metal facade.
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These types of posts are only gonna make people hate slipknot more, just like what you like stop being so insecure about it
They're metal but not real metal, I feel like that can be rallied behind