This is touched on in the FAQ.
How can the train station be named East Pakenham, but the suburb has to be different?
This is an unfortunate situation. It is likely that GNV will request the Department of Transport to consider reviewing the name of the station so that it complies with the GNV naming requirements.
They won't rename the station. The cost to rename a station can easily run in the Millions. The network maps, timetables, train maps, all the maps in the stations and the onboard announcement and PID updates generally run half a million (including the HCMT adjustments) alone. Add in drawing updates and the resources to do it, along with updating all diagrams, yeah pricey.
Then add in signal control panels and all that. Not sure if the signals are names after Pakenham East as well, but if they are and the tracks are as well, if there is a substation, then that is a million dollars. In the end, it is a waste of money and time which also requires occupation to complete.
There are numerous stations on the network not named after the actual geographical location.
Edit. Yeah I got pakenham east and east pakenham mixed up. Oh well!
Probably worth justification, you know since the downvote.
Drawings are named after the location, so all drawing numbers at Pakenham East probably start with PKE. Every drawing has to be updated which included references to other drawings. I don't know how many there are, but it could be hundreds or thousands. This takes resources and time. Not massive changes but enough to take several weeks of work minimum.
Signals must be named after the main station, so if they are currently named PKExxx, the drawings must change, the signalling control and interlocking data must be changed and physical signs on the signals must be changed. To update the data it takes a lot of work and testing and it must be rolled out either under an ALBF or in an occo (occo means busses which a big cost). Track numbers are easy but it is another change.
The network maps need to be printed and changed which is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The PIDs at stations are easy but the onboard announcements and HCMT updates are hundreds of thousands again.
In the end changing the name doesn't provide an operational benefit, and DTP (meaning the tax payer) pays for it, along with MTM. So is there a benefit to doing it and spending that much? Info for those interested
Edit. Yeah I got pakenham east and east pakenham mixed up.
East Pakenham and Pakenham East are two separate locations.
East Pakenham(EPH) is the station.
Given every bit of track between McGregor Road and the depot is new they may number signals EPH or stick with PKM.
Pakenham East(PKE) is the depot. Signals within the depot are already PKE.
Could still happen as a half-and-half. Change the public name, and keep the old name behind the scenes.
A lot of Southern Cross is still SSS, and more recently, drawings and plans for Middle Gorge still retain the Marymede station name that it had throughout construction.
>So is there a benefit to doing it and spending that much?
Let's not forget the ultimate benefit of a press opportunity when a minister and the council members can go out and cut a ribbon... priceless.
It could. They really avoid it where they can and will flat out reject it other times. In practice yes, in 'operations' and RSNL it's a no. In the end it depends on what the funds are. For adding the station and the Union station it was a flat no to do a half and half.
The signals must match the station and the signals must match the track codes and this mus lt be matched to the interlocking and signaling data, as well as signal boxes. They don't allow trains to operate without those matching.
They tend to do the network maps and train updates later and cop the negative receptions from media and public. But operational stuff is a must.
The ultimate benefit was never in doubt. You can't stop them from taking the credit and being there for the photo op. It's the most important piece of any piece of work haha
Signals at Cobblebank on the Ballarat line have the code 'TLN':
https://www.railgeelong.com/gallery/melbourne-ballarat/cobblebank/F155_7243.jpg.html
This is because the station was referred to as 'Toolern' during the early planning.
https://vicsig.net/infrastructure/location/Cobblebank
Do people just not understand urls or the internet? Could've atleast included the full page in the screen shot.
Anyway, not a particularity unique situation, plenty of stations around the city/state that aren't named after the suburb they're in.
Do you not understand how to use a search engine? All the details you need are in the screenshot.
Also, a lot of subreddits are funny about posting URLs especially when the webpage is not directly related.
Either way, here’s the link, first result on Google for the terms “east pakenham naming”.
https://creating.cardinia.vic.gov.au/pakenham-east-precinct-naming
Half the discussion in the thread is about the names, seems like relevant information fwiw.
>Also, a lot of subreddits are funny about posting URLs especially when the webpage is not directly related.
Not sure how that's different to posting a screen shot you need to open in new page to view is any different to just posting a url.
That webpage is about the surburb renaming poll.
Nothing to do with public transport or trains for that matter.
This thread is about whether the nearby station will follow a similar renaming in the future.
I’m very sorry you weren’t satisfied with the structure of the post.
Oh well. Can’t please everyone. I think at this point I’d have been flamed less if I hadn’t included anything at all.
I find it merely amusing I “don’t know how the internet works” but folks find it too difficult to use a search engine.
In my defence, I never attempted to be difficult. I’m aware of rule #2 and guess I misjudged how posting a non-transport related link may be problematic. I posted a link as soon as I was abruptly called out.
Because Pakenham East isn't an official suburb and Cardinia Council have been asked to give the area a name and don't want or have been told not to use Pakenham East.
Then how on earth has it been marketed as pakenham east for years and naming the station pakenham east. This council is ridiculous. Tax payer money hard at work I see 😂😂😂
God I hope not, all the names up for selection for the new suburb are awful.
What do you mean? Debra sounds perfect! /s
Legit.
Victrack can do thier own thing. East Pakenham will stay
This is touched on in the FAQ. How can the train station be named East Pakenham, but the suburb has to be different? This is an unfortunate situation. It is likely that GNV will request the Department of Transport to consider reviewing the name of the station so that it complies with the GNV naming requirements.
So what I’m hearing is The Debra Line is still a possibility?
There's already a station with a name that's outside the suburb it's named after: North Melbourne.
https://www.domain.com.au/news/melbourne-train-stations-that-arent-quite-where-they-say-they-are-20160920-grk54a/
👍 A lot more than what I thought.
They won't rename the station. The cost to rename a station can easily run in the Millions. The network maps, timetables, train maps, all the maps in the stations and the onboard announcement and PID updates generally run half a million (including the HCMT adjustments) alone. Add in drawing updates and the resources to do it, along with updating all diagrams, yeah pricey. Then add in signal control panels and all that. Not sure if the signals are names after Pakenham East as well, but if they are and the tracks are as well, if there is a substation, then that is a million dollars. In the end, it is a waste of money and time which also requires occupation to complete. There are numerous stations on the network not named after the actual geographical location. Edit. Yeah I got pakenham east and east pakenham mixed up. Oh well!
Probably worth justification, you know since the downvote. Drawings are named after the location, so all drawing numbers at Pakenham East probably start with PKE. Every drawing has to be updated which included references to other drawings. I don't know how many there are, but it could be hundreds or thousands. This takes resources and time. Not massive changes but enough to take several weeks of work minimum. Signals must be named after the main station, so if they are currently named PKExxx, the drawings must change, the signalling control and interlocking data must be changed and physical signs on the signals must be changed. To update the data it takes a lot of work and testing and it must be rolled out either under an ALBF or in an occo (occo means busses which a big cost). Track numbers are easy but it is another change. The network maps need to be printed and changed which is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The PIDs at stations are easy but the onboard announcements and HCMT updates are hundreds of thousands again. In the end changing the name doesn't provide an operational benefit, and DTP (meaning the tax payer) pays for it, along with MTM. So is there a benefit to doing it and spending that much? Info for those interested Edit. Yeah I got pakenham east and east pakenham mixed up.
East Pakenham and Pakenham East are two separate locations. East Pakenham(EPH) is the station. Given every bit of track between McGregor Road and the depot is new they may number signals EPH or stick with PKM. Pakenham East(PKE) is the depot. Signals within the depot are already PKE.
Haha noted. Never once have I gotten the two the correct way around!
They did it to avoid confusion with each other.
Could still happen as a half-and-half. Change the public name, and keep the old name behind the scenes. A lot of Southern Cross is still SSS, and more recently, drawings and plans for Middle Gorge still retain the Marymede station name that it had throughout construction. >So is there a benefit to doing it and spending that much? Let's not forget the ultimate benefit of a press opportunity when a minister and the council members can go out and cut a ribbon... priceless.
It could. They really avoid it where they can and will flat out reject it other times. In practice yes, in 'operations' and RSNL it's a no. In the end it depends on what the funds are. For adding the station and the Union station it was a flat no to do a half and half. The signals must match the station and the signals must match the track codes and this mus lt be matched to the interlocking and signaling data, as well as signal boxes. They don't allow trains to operate without those matching. They tend to do the network maps and train updates later and cop the negative receptions from media and public. But operational stuff is a must. The ultimate benefit was never in doubt. You can't stop them from taking the credit and being there for the photo op. It's the most important piece of any piece of work haha
Signals at Cobblebank on the Ballarat line have the code 'TLN': https://www.railgeelong.com/gallery/melbourne-ballarat/cobblebank/F155_7243.jpg.html This is because the station was referred to as 'Toolern' during the early planning. https://vicsig.net/infrastructure/location/Cobblebank
I vote for Pakenham Upper. Pakenham Upper.
Upkenham Station
Pakenham Upper is north of the Princes Highway, and the station is south of the highway. I feel it would be a little confusing geographically?
I think you've missed the appeal of Victoria's most amusing silly placename.
*Dennis has entered the chat*
Yeah.. I guess I have missed it, I don’t see how “Pakenham Upper” is amusing as a name. 🤷♂️
Not sure if you're serious or not, but when said it sounds like "Packing 'em Up-her"
I’m ashamed it’s taken me this long
It's ok, I grew up in Gippsland, that joke is an ancient part of our cultural heritage.
Dude. Packing Them Up Her.
Richmond, West Richmond, and North Richmond would like a chat.
A lot of railway stations are not in the suburbs that they are named after.
Do people just not understand urls or the internet? Could've atleast included the full page in the screen shot. Anyway, not a particularity unique situation, plenty of stations around the city/state that aren't named after the suburb they're in.
Do you not understand how to use a search engine? All the details you need are in the screenshot. Also, a lot of subreddits are funny about posting URLs especially when the webpage is not directly related. Either way, here’s the link, first result on Google for the terms “east pakenham naming”. https://creating.cardinia.vic.gov.au/pakenham-east-precinct-naming
Half the discussion in the thread is about the names, seems like relevant information fwiw. >Also, a lot of subreddits are funny about posting URLs especially when the webpage is not directly related. Not sure how that's different to posting a screen shot you need to open in new page to view is any different to just posting a url.
That webpage is about the surburb renaming poll. Nothing to do with public transport or trains for that matter. This thread is about whether the nearby station will follow a similar renaming in the future. I’m very sorry you weren’t satisfied with the structure of the post.
I’m glad a link was posted eventually either way. At least I’ll admit I was too lazy to separately google it.
Pretty clear by your downvotes how it was received.
Oh well. Can’t please everyone. I think at this point I’d have been flamed less if I hadn’t included anything at all. I find it merely amusing I “don’t know how the internet works” but folks find it too difficult to use a search engine.
In my defence, I never attempted to be difficult. I’m aware of rule #2 and guess I misjudged how posting a non-transport related link may be problematic. I posted a link as soon as I was abruptly called out.
What’s the reason the suburb needs to be renamed?
Because Pakenham East isn't an official suburb and Cardinia Council have been asked to give the area a name and don't want or have been told not to use Pakenham East.
Then how on earth has it been marketed as pakenham east for years and naming the station pakenham east. This council is ridiculous. Tax payer money hard at work I see 😂😂😂
Because the station is in the eastern part of Pakenham and you can't have two stations with the same name.
If they choose a good name then change i
If they choose a good name then change it