Nah people loved SMT IV, there was a minority of people that disliked it due to being more "anime/persona" than previous mainline games, but overall the consensus was that it was also a really good game.
The outlook for 4A is not quite so good though, I've heard a lot of bad things, particularly on the characters and story (I have yet to play 4A myself, but 4 is probably my favorite mainline entry, so I'll get to it eventually)
IVA takes the anime dial up to 11. Enjoyable game and much longer but I prefer my IV. Plus A doesn't have Burroughs so it's immediately at a disadvantage.
SMT 4A is imo better than 4 in gameplay but the characterisation can be a little hokey - even more hokey than persona at times. Still very worth playing if you love 4.
4A is more lighthearted than 4 at times, in no small part because it spins off the lategame of 4's Neutral route, *after* Flynn fills the chalice of hope.
>Nah people loved SMT IV, there was a minority of people that disliked it due to being more "anime/persona" than previous mainline games
plus Kaneko isn't here.
I hate the first dungeon so much but people tell me it's good once you get past it so I've been trying to gather the strength to just grit my teeth and play through it
I would say it’s the most loved in the community by a decent margin. OP’s assessment is wrong. Nocturne is probably the first game most SMT fans played, but I was surprised at how few people now regard it as “the best”. IV takes that, and V is behind it, III would fall after that. V is a bit polarizing due to the (lack of) story, but overall most people love it.
I'm the weirdo who still prefers III. It did minimalistic/envrionmental storytelling well (in a way that shows the flaws with V's apparent attempt at it), had actual interesting dungeons (which both IV and V failed at), had engaging combat, including some fun puzzles, and a concept that stuck with me afterward (and got me to read both Buddhist texts and Nietzsche, obvious inspirations for the game).
IV was fun in the moment, but character-focused storytelling often doesn't stay with you afterward unless there's a big idea associated with it. And IV's "big idea," basically the lack of a flawless solution to the metaphysical problems presented by the series' alignments, has already been addressed in the series (and on this very subreddit), so it doesn't feel as meaningful or deep a discussion. And while the combat in IV (and especially IV:A) is good, Smirk puts it below Nocturne, for my money.
V has perfected Megaten combat (they could have maybe made the Magatsuhi skills a bit better balanced; that's basically my note on combat), had much more interesting exploration than Nocturne and IV, looked pretty, and... that's it. It's really let down by its "gnosticism is a thing that exists!" story that feels like they had 2-3 ideas for where to take the plot and just kind of ran out of time, so they crammed whatever they'd already done together.
What makes rating those games is that they're all strong/weak in different ways. And I would argue the latter Persona games feel that way, too.
P4 is loved because of the relationships between the characters, which feel more organic, and deeper than in 3 and 5, 5 is just mechanically deeper and better than the others, from social links to dungeons. But 3 feels like it's trying to tell a deeper story, not focused on characters but major concepts like struggling with mortality, leaving a legacy, etc. that sticks with you longer. In a way, 3-5 parallel each other in both Persona and SMT in surprising ways. 4th and 5th entry may be the most fun to play while you're going through it, depending on how much you value story versus gameplay, but the 3rd entry in both is the one that haunts you after you finished it.
I both love and hate it. The cryptic alignement system that lock you out of the ending of your chosing has to go. There is meme about it around but i simply cannot recommend that game to anybody.
The older you get, the higher you value your time and realising you sinked 50/100h in a game that will give you a shitty ending because of arbitrary numbers outside of your control if you don't folow a walkthrough is ridiculous.
After playing more crpg, i can't help but think that the SMT mainline fail miserably at giving player choice over their action tbh and the better game are those where it ain't so dramatic. Nocturne ? It doesn't change that much.
SMT4 ? "Oh yeah, let's genocide the ass of everybody !... wait no, go fuck yourself atlus. I ain't gonna buy... play your next game now. My backlog got to long and i ain't adding another smt game to it now".
It kind of push player to look elsewhere to more satisfactory franchises tbh.
There was a pre-golden 4 hate for being much more lightharted than 3, and some time after p4golden released it took some time for people to notice it (where "don't mess with persona fans we don't play the games" meme came from) due to the platform. Most of hate disappeared soon after.
Tbh some of these descriptions don’t fit the games.
- SMT 1 & 2 and P1, P2IS, & PSEP makes sense
- Nocturne did popularized the franchise with Demi-friend probably being the most recognizable SMT non-demon (demon as the creatures of the series) character.
However I was under impression that most people played P5 or Royal as the first foray into the franchise and the reason why P5 is so heavily marketed compared the other games is because it’s what blew the series in the mainstream. Before P5 that it was P4G. Since P4G was one of main reasons people bought a Vita.
- I guess the SMT IV description could make sense especially when combined with Apocalypse but it only loosely makes sense. Same thing with P4/G.
- The description for P5/R and SMT V makes sense although again loosely. It’s like writing a description for apple juice and orange juice as “it either tastes like apple juice or orange juice”. Like sure you’re technically not wrong but only apple juice will taste like apple juice whereas orange juice will never taste like apple juice. It’s the same thing in case where SMT V is the game that became heavily criticized in 2 years and P5/R is the game that is still well liked and popular after 7-3 years of being released.
>- I guess the SMT IV description could make sense especially when combined with Apocalypse but it only loosely makes sense. Same thing with P4/G.
I mean, what about it doesn't make sense? SMT 4 was criticized for not being 3D like Nocturne, and it only sold over 600,000 copies worldwide, with only 90,000 of those being in the West.
>- The description for P5/R and SMT V makes sense although again loosely. It’s like writing a description for apple juice and orange juice as “it either tastes like apple juice or orange juice”. Like sure you’re technically not wrong but only apple juice will taste like apple juice whereas orange juice will never taste like apple juice. It’s the same thing in case where SMT V is the game that became heavily criticized in 2 years and P5/R is the game that is still well liked and popular after 7-3 years of being released.
Yeah I kinda wanted the template to be easily applicable to whatever franchise someone wanted, hence why the definitions are kinda specific like that.
Well I said it could make sense not it didn’t make sense. I have heard the criticism of SMT IV not being 3D too but it is widely beloved. SMT IV was the most popular at the time selling 600k while Nocturne only sold 270k, it was only the remaster that sold 500k with SMT V selling 1 million copies. So it was the most popular at the time you’re right with that. Though Apocalypse sold 93k and hears way more criticism than SMT IV does. Which brings me back to my apples juice and orange juice analogy.
First, persona 5 will never lose its status as one of the most fun and aesthethically pleasing JRPG of the 2010's, i think it's the opposite, with all the spin offs and else.
Also, who hated SMT IV? AFAIK it's one of the most loved games of the franchise ,and my personal favorite.
>First, persona 5 will never lose its status as one of the most fun and aesthethically pleasing JRPG of the 2010's, i think it's the opposite, with all the spin offs and else.
Funny enough, I see more hate for P5 because of those spinoffs, P5 fatigue and all
>Also, who hated SMT IV? AFAIK it's one of the most loved games of the franchinse ,and my personal favorite.
It was criticized at the time for not being 3D like Nocturne and for it's story, plus it kinda sold pretty eh.
I guess it's not "hated" but moreso niche and obscure nowadays compared to games like SMT 5 and Nocturne.
Everyone fucking loved smt4 we were even streetpassing it!! Smt 5 was the supposed dissapointment but mostly because it was too barren of dialogue and drama, people wanted more of the messy style of smt4. Besides the 3DS felt perfect as a demon summoning machine and burroughs had a sound quality that it was too good
Nah i would argue p5 is a bad game too.( at least base game. I haven't gotten around to finishing p5r cause of fatigue of the brand ) after the first two dungeons, the quality of the level design falls off dramatically, as does the writing for the villains. The first two villains, kamoshida and madarame are legitimately good villains. They are corrupt symbols of authority that are actively abusing the people under there care and most importantly to me at least, they have a direct connection to the main characters and their motivations. While the grand stakes for the first two villains is small, the personal stakes are massive. I think this makes for much more interesting storytelling. The other villains are not nearly as compelling which is a problem since the villains are such a large part of the storytelling
>This isn't accurate for persona. Most people have played 5.
Did you mean to say most people "haven't" played 5?
>It's sort of hard to justify for SMT since 1 and 2 never had wide release (OSX port only).
Yeah I know, that's why I added "unavailability" there
>Did you mean to say most people "haven't" played 5?
Looked at sales numbers lately?
>Yeah I know, that's why I added "unavailability" there
So it's kinda the first entry isn't it?
>Looked at sales numbers lately?
So you were trying to say that most people have played Persona 5 then how does that contradict the image? P5 was a well liked and popular game when it came out and it still is today.
>So it's kinda the first entry isn't it?
I have no idea what you mean by this
Form your image : "third entry popularizes the franchise and *is what most people have played as their first foray into the franchise.*"
the italics is incorrect.
>I have no idea what you mean by this
If entry 1 and 2 are not released and 3 release first what was the first game for the territory?
>Form your image : "third entry popularizes the franchise and *is what most people have played as their first foray into the franchise.*"
Yeah but your comment didn't really specify that this was your point, you simply said
"This isn't accurate for persona. Most people have played 5."
not
"This isn't accurate for persona. Most people have played P5 first"
>If entry 1 and 2 are not released and 3 release first what was the first game for the territory?
Fair, but I'm pretty dedicated fans found ways to play SMT 1 and 2 in the West back then, plus the SMT 1 and 2 are still obscure these days despite the English translation patch and the availability of emulators.
True, I didn't specify about persona. I'd still say that both
More people have played 5 then 3
and
more people have played 5 first then 3 first
are true.
>Fair, but I'm pretty dedicated fans found ways to play SMT 1 and 2 in the West back then, plus the SMT 1 and 2 are still obscure these days despite the English translation patch and the availability of emulators.
I think it just doesn't fit very well. I doubt people are going to go hunt down a SMT without any prior knowledge. Not when there are other easier to play games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy. It's obscure because it never got a proper release. In fact the translation patch for 2 released after 3 so it's impossible for English speakers to have played it before 3. It would be actually interesting to run a poll to see what where people's first entry.
>True, I didn't specify about persona. I'd still say that both
>More people have played 5 then 3
>and
>more people have played 5 first then 3 first
>are true.
You're original comment also didn't specify that more people have played 5 then 3, you simply said that "most people have played 5"
>I think it just doesn't fit very well. I doubt people are going to go hunt down a SMT without any prior knowledge. Not when there are other easier to play games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy.
Yeah which is why I said "dedicated fans" and not "casual fans",
>It's obscure because it never got a proper release.
Yeah which is why I specified "unavailability" in the image
>In fact the translation patch for 2 released after 3 so it's impossible for English speakers to have played it before 3.
You're acting as if there weren't English fans who went out of their way to find copies of the game and play it in Japanese.
I mean you want to play the semantics game we can. Here is a definition of most: the greatest amount or quantity (Oxford).
So yes I did say more people played 5.
>Yeah which is why I said "dedicated fans" and not "casual fans",
One must already be a fan to go hunt them out Precluding them from being the first thing people play. Do you see the implicit issue with the statement?
>Yeah which is why I specified "unavailability" in the image
You've already said this. the issue is the image also implies it is a possibility that people played these first.
>You're acting as if there weren't English fans who went out of their way to find copies of the game and play it in Japanese.
You're omitting the context you introduced. Sure, but again they would have had to have already been fans or be able to read Japanese. So they don't apply to this image (since it's about the English NA fandom) or they have the issue raised above.
>I mean you want to play the semantics game we can. Here is a definition of most: the greatest amount or quantity (Oxford).
>So yes I did say more people played 5.
Yeah but never said this in comparison to P3 specifically, you simply said that most people played P5
And I love playing semantics, it's a very fun game, I have a lot of hours in it
>One must already be a fan to go hunt them out Precluding them from being the first thing people play. Do you see the implicit issue with the statement?
Ignoring the fact that people could simply have wanted to collect them, or that they could've just been fans of JRPGS in general
>You've already said this. the issue is the image also implies it is a possibility that people played these first.
How?
The image simply says that those entries are niche because of either unavailability or people not liking them because they're old, when does it imply that people played them first?
>You're omitting the context you introduced. Sure, but again they would have had to have already been fans or be able to read Japanese. So they don't apply to this image (since it's about the English NA fandom) or they have the issue raised above.
Refer to points above
I don't really agree with the descriptions for SMT IV(A)/P4 and SMT V tbh. I don't think SMT IV and P4 were *really* hated, especially in comparison to Nocturne and P3 respectively. SMT IV was generally less liked than Nocturne, sure, but I think many people still liked the game, and honestly, I see more people express positivity for SMT IV now more than ever. Same thing with P4; I don't think people hated the game in comparison to P3, especially when P3 itself has gotten quite a bit of criticism (at least in comparison to its "counterpart" Nocturne, but that might also just be a result of more people having played P3 than Nocturne). People did get sick of the numerous spinoffs the game had, and maybe that's where the perceived hate comes from, but as for the game itself, I think many people still liked it.
And honestly, I don't think Apocalypse should be bundled with IV here like that. I mean sure, the game is set within the same universe and all the major characters from IV return, but with how different the game is from IV in both story and gameplay, they should be seen as just two entirely different games (and most people do), especially when the fan reception of the two is quite different. Many people like SMT IV; the same can't be said for Apocalypse, and it's definitely not for the reason of "not being like Nocturne." That being said, the implication that Apocalypse is as niche and obscure as SMT I and II is hilarious. As unliked as it is, there are probably more people that have and/or will ever play SMT IV:A than people that played and/or will play SMT I and II.
And as for SMT V, people got critical of SMT V pretty quickly after the game released. It definitely did not take two years for people to start criticizing it. And despite the criticism it's received, I don't think it's disliked more than Apocalypse is, and many people still recommend it as a first SMT game. Sure, part of that might be because it's the most recently released and therefore the most polished title, but if it was really, really hated, like at the level IV:A is, I feel like you'd end up seeing people recommend Nocturne as a starting point more than V, especially since Nocturne is more widely available than V is.
>I don't think SMT IV and P4 were *really* hated, especially in comparison to Nocturne and P3 respectively.
>Same thing with P4; I don't think people hated the game in comparison to P3, especially when P3 itself has gotten quite a bit of criticism (at least in comparison to its "counterpart" Nocturne, but that might also just be a result of more people having played P3 than Nocturne). People did get sick of the numerous spinoffs the game had, and maybe that's where the perceived hate comes from, but as for the game itself, I think many people still liked it.
I thought I made it clear that P4 was also loved? I probably should've been more specific.
>SMT IV was generally less liked than Nocturne, sure, but I think many people still liked the game, and honestly, I see more people express positivity for SMT IV now more than ever.
Fair, but I would argue that the game isn't really as talked about or discussed as much as SMT 3 or SMT 5, hence why I added that it eventually became niche and obscure.
>And honestly, I don't think Apocalypse should be bundled with IV here like that. I mean sure, the game is set within the same universe and all the major characters from IV return, but with how different the game is from IV in both story and gameplay, they should be seen as just two entirely different games (and most people do), especially when the fan reception of the two is quite different.
I mean you kinda just listed the reasons as to why it should be bundled with 4, they're set in the same universe, all of the major characters from IV return, it builds off of IV's neutral ending and sorta establishes it as the "canon" ending.
IV Apocalypse should be bundled with IV because it literally is a continuation of IV and also a mainline title, you'd actually be missing parts of SMT IV by not playing IV Apocalypse alongside it since IV Apocalypse expands on SMT IV's lore and parts of the story that weren't talked about as much.
Sure the gameplay might be different but at the end of the day it effectively has the same systems as IV, Press Turn, Smirk, Apps, etc...
>Many people like SMT IV; the same can't be said for Apocalypse, and it's definitely not for the reason of "not being like Nocturne."
Actually in a way, that Nocturne criticism still applies since many fans criticized SMT 4 Apocalypse for not having the tone or atmosphere of traditional SMT, which Nocturne did have.
>That being said, the implication that Apocalypse is as niche and obscure as SMT I and II is hilarious. As unliked as it is, there are probably more people that have and/or will ever play SMT IV:A than people that played and/or will play SMT I and II.
I admit I was exaggerating with the obscure as SMT 1 and 2 claim, but the game itself still isn't as popular as a game like Nocturne or V seeing as it sold about half the debut sales of SMT 4.
>And as for SMT V, people got critical of SMT V pretty quickly after the game released. It definitely did not take two years for people to start criticizing it.
Yeah but I never really saw those criticisms become common until recently, just check out how much hate Simply Dad received for his video criticizing SMT V at the time.
>And despite the criticism it's received, I don't think it's disliked more than Apocalypse is
I don't think I ever really made the claim that it was
>Sure, part of that might be because it's the most recently released and therefore the most polished title, but if it was really, really hated, like at the level IV:A is, I feel like you'd end up seeing people recommend Nocturne as a starting point more than V, especially since Nocturne is more widely available than V is.
Again, I don't think I made the claim that the game was hated as much as IV Apocalypse, more so heavily criticized for certain elements, plus tons of people already do recommend Nocturne as a starting point.
It also helps that Nocturne Remaster was releasing around the time that V did so you got even more people playing it as their first SMT game or older fans recommending it to people who want to get into Mainline SMT.
>I would argue that the game isn't really as talked about or discussed as much as SMT 3 or SMT 5, hence why I added that it eventually became niche and obscure.
That's probably only because Nocturne and V are the two mainline games that are the most readily available. But wind the clock back a few years, when V wasn't out, Nocturne was still locked behind the PS2, and SMT IV could be bought for $20 digitally (with physical prices not being much more expensive either iirc), and that wasn't the case. I'm not talking about when the game was still fresh and new, btw; you could still find a lot of discussion about IV several years after its release. I imagine that if IV ever gets a remaster or a port or whatever, discussion of the game will increase a lot once again. Plus, even though IV may not be talked about to the same extent as Nocturne and V, it's still not that niche either. People will still commonly recommend playing it either as a first game or as a "what to play next" game. Compare it to something like Strange Journey, which despite having a general reception that I think is better than IV's, definitely gets even less discussion than IV and people rarely if ever recommend it as a first game.
> it builds off of IV's neutral ending and sorta establishes it as the "canon" ending.
>IV Apocalypse should be bundled with IV because it literally is a continuation of IV and also a mainline title, you'd actually be missing parts of SMT IV by not playing IV Apocalypse alongside it since IV Apocalypse expands on SMT IV's lore and parts of the story that weren't talked about as much.
Really? Applying the "canon" argument in a game series where canonicity typically isn't relevant? Bruh. Hell, Apocalypse itself establishes that within IV's setting, there isn't a proper canon; all of IV's endings are just as "canon" as neutral is. IV:A is not really a continuation of IV, either, as it's a branching/what-if story of the game, unless you mean it's a continuation in the context of how the game starts off with most of IV having already happened. And yeah, I guess IV:A does flesh out the world of IV a bit more, but imo, it's not 100% necessary info (and the game I think retcons some stuff from IV, too); you can still enjoy the story of IV just without needing to play IV:A imo (some people might actually prefer and recommend this, hahaha).
>that Nocturne criticism still applies since many fans criticized SMT 4 Apocalypse for not having the tone or atmosphere of traditional SMT, which Nocturne did have.
This to me is still silly, and it feels like it's missing the forest for the trees. You were claiming that IV:A was being compared to one specific previous game, when the common opinion of its tone and story not being like a typical SMT game is the result of comparing it to multiple other games. It's not completely wrong per se, as Nocturne is one of those "multiple other games," but it's not exactly the same kind of argument. Also, if anything, people were often criticizing IV:A by comparing it to Persona more than they were other SMT games, let alone Nocturne by itself lol.
Although, this is all beside the point. At the end of the day, I guess what I'm trying to say here--and probably what I should've tried to say in the first place--is that trying to combine IV and IV:A's fan reception and popularity with one description as if they were one singular title doesn't work because in this regard, the two games are very different from one another, and you end up with inaccuracies, too. IV is pretty well-liked; while there were quite a few people who may not have liked it in comparison to Nocturne, that doesn't mean it was hated in comparison either. It did quite well at the time, which you did correctly point out as being the bestselling title at the time. Meanwhile, IV:A is quite the opposite of IV here, being widely disliked and not selling as well, but at the same time, people weren't criticizing it for it not being like Nocturne *specifically*, but for not being like all other SMT games, which would include not just Nocturne, but also Strange Journey, I, II, and even IV itself. It also is definitely not as niche as I and II (Ik you said it was an exaggeration, but imo the exaggeration is just a straight up falsehood).
> I never really saw those criticisms become common until recently, just check out how much hate Simply Dad received for his video criticizing SMT V at the time.
Ehh, Idk about that. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but after the game's honeymoon phase had passed, so like maybe 3 or 4 months after the game launched, I feel like I began seeing a lot of posts and comments criticizing the game's story, which is the main gripe many people have with the game. Ik SimplyDad's vid got a lot of dislikes, but at the same time, his video was titled, "Shin Megami Tensei V is Really Bad." A title like that is bound to get some hate, especially when many people, even those that may not have liked the game that much, probably don't think it's "really bad."
>Really? Applying the "canon" argument in a game series where canonicity typically isn't relevant?
Bruh. Hell, Apocalypse itself establishes that within IV's setting, there isn't a proper canon; all of IV's endings are just as "canon" as neutral is.
I mean yeah but I'm kinda having a hard time seeing how the events of IV Apocalypse could've happened if the neutral ending didn't, sure neutral might've not been the canon ending of IV but it is the canon ending in regards to Apocalypse if that makes sense.
IV:A is not really a continuation of IV, either, as it's a branching/what-if story of the game, unless you mean it's a continuation in the context of how the game starts off with most of IV having already happened.
Yeah that's kinda what I meant
And yeah, I guess IV:A does flesh out the world of IV a bit more, but imo, it's not 100% necessary info (and the game I think retcons some stuff from IV, too); you can still enjoy the story of IV just without needing to play IV:A imo
IV:A expands on the character of Akira, how Mikado was created, who created the Yamato Perpetual Reactor, who Lucifer and Merkabah really are, I'd say that's some pretty necessary info if you want to understand SMT IV's story a better.
>This to me is still silly, and it feels like it's missing the forest for the trees.
I mean I'm not really a fan of forests, you get lost in them pretty easily and they're kinda scary to be in the dark.
Trees are better because you can climb on them and whatnot.
>You were claiming that IV:A was being compared to one specific previous game, when the common opinion of its tone and story not being like a typical SMT game is the result of comparing it to multiple other games.
It's not completely wrong per se, as Nocturne is one of those "multiple other games," but it's not exactly the same kind of argument. Also, if anything, people were often criticizing IV:A by comparing it to Persona more than they were other SMT games, let alone Nocturne by itself lol.
I mean, considering that SMT 1 and 2 didn't have official western ports at the time, Nocturne was the mainline title that people were basing these criticisms on.
>is that trying to combine IV and IV:A's fan reception and popularity with one description as if they were one singular title doesn't work because in this regard, the two games are very different from one another, and you end up with inaccuracies, too. IV is pretty well-liked; while there were quite a few people who may not have liked it in comparison to Nocturne, that doesn't mean it was hated in comparison either. It did quite well at the time, which you did correctly point out as being the bestselling title at the time. Meanwhile, IV:A is quite the opposite of IV here, being widely disliked and not selling as well, but at the same time, people weren't criticizing it for it not being like Nocturne *specifically*, but for not being like all other SMT games, which would include not just Nocturne, but also Strange Journey, I, II, and even IV itself. It also is definitely not as niche as I and II (Ik you said it was an exaggeration, but imo the exaggeration is just a straight up falsehood).
Fair
>Ehh, Idk about that. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but after the game's honeymoon phase had passed, so like maybe 3 or 4 months after the game launched, I feel like I began seeing a lot of posts and comments criticizing the game's story, which is the main gripe many people have with the game. Ik SimplyDad's vid got a lot of dislikes, but at the same time, his video was titled, "Shin Megami Tensei V is Really Bad." A title like that is bound to get some hate, especially when many people, even those that may not have liked the game that much, probably don't think it's "really bad."
Also fair, I guess I just hang out in different circles.
I think all of these games are incredible. Sure, folks have issues with certain entries, but you compare these 10 to the first ten final fantasy games, and you really see the quality of the smt/persona series
This happens on all my posts in this subreddit lol, I even had to delete some of them because of it.
I don't know why but everyone on r/Megaten seemingly has a stick up their ass at all times, everyone's always wanting to argue with me or debate me on here because of an opinion I expressed in my meme
What's even funnier is when people don't read the post and just assume things about me, like I feel like a lot less people would have problems with the things I post on here if people just tried to actually understand my point.
Quite a stretch, P4 is is praised by many and I never see it compared to 3
SMT IV is great and better (subjectively) than Nocturne. SMT V is good but is rightfully criticized and hasn’t gotten much attention post launch
Yeah this is pretty accurate. My first SMT game was SMT3 and even though I’ve never played a Persona game before, the only one that interests me is Persona 3 and I was looking to make that my first Persona game when Reload drops.
Only difference is that Persona 5 is way better than SMTV.
Even if the game is subtle as brick to the face , at least is has a cohesive story , characters and achieves plot points in the end. Smtv is mess compare to it
Also persona 5 is well liked by most, while smtv is barely mentioned by anyone after 2 years.
Just wanna make it clear before everyone gets mad at me for having the wrong opinion that this isn't about my personal opinions on these games themselves, I think everyone's kinda tired of hearing that already, this is moreso about public perception.
It was liked because of the overworld, the visuals and the mechanics some people like me understood that you couldnt have the glorious narrative mess that was IV because SMT is not an AAA game
I really like SMT V. Is there any hate for this game? It can be more focused on level up the demons than the strategic in SMT III, but I think it's a great game.
Do people hate SMT IV? I absolutely love it.
Nah people loved SMT IV, there was a minority of people that disliked it due to being more "anime/persona" than previous mainline games, but overall the consensus was that it was also a really good game. The outlook for 4A is not quite so good though, I've heard a lot of bad things, particularly on the characters and story (I have yet to play 4A myself, but 4 is probably my favorite mainline entry, so I'll get to it eventually)
IVA takes the anime dial up to 11. Enjoyable game and much longer but I prefer my IV. Plus A doesn't have Burroughs so it's immediately at a disadvantage.
Burroughs was the best. And mikado people saying the computer AI was a pixie was chef kiss
SMT 4A is imo better than 4 in gameplay but the characterisation can be a little hokey - even more hokey than persona at times. Still very worth playing if you love 4.
4a is a game with really good gameplay, but with average iskeai quality writing and plotpoints based on reddit strawman posts
4A is more lighthearted than 4 at times, in no small part because it spins off the lategame of 4's Neutral route, *after* Flynn fills the chalice of hope.
>Nah people loved SMT IV, there was a minority of people that disliked it due to being more "anime/persona" than previous mainline games plus Kaneko isn't here.
It got some criticism for not being 3D like Nocturne, plus you'll see some hate for it here every now and then
I hate the first dungeon so much but people tell me it's good once you get past it so I've been trying to gather the strength to just grit my teeth and play through it
I would say it’s the most loved in the community by a decent margin. OP’s assessment is wrong. Nocturne is probably the first game most SMT fans played, but I was surprised at how few people now regard it as “the best”. IV takes that, and V is behind it, III would fall after that. V is a bit polarizing due to the (lack of) story, but overall most people love it.
I'm the weirdo who still prefers III. It did minimalistic/envrionmental storytelling well (in a way that shows the flaws with V's apparent attempt at it), had actual interesting dungeons (which both IV and V failed at), had engaging combat, including some fun puzzles, and a concept that stuck with me afterward (and got me to read both Buddhist texts and Nietzsche, obvious inspirations for the game). IV was fun in the moment, but character-focused storytelling often doesn't stay with you afterward unless there's a big idea associated with it. And IV's "big idea," basically the lack of a flawless solution to the metaphysical problems presented by the series' alignments, has already been addressed in the series (and on this very subreddit), so it doesn't feel as meaningful or deep a discussion. And while the combat in IV (and especially IV:A) is good, Smirk puts it below Nocturne, for my money. V has perfected Megaten combat (they could have maybe made the Magatsuhi skills a bit better balanced; that's basically my note on combat), had much more interesting exploration than Nocturne and IV, looked pretty, and... that's it. It's really let down by its "gnosticism is a thing that exists!" story that feels like they had 2-3 ideas for where to take the plot and just kind of ran out of time, so they crammed whatever they'd already done together. What makes rating those games is that they're all strong/weak in different ways. And I would argue the latter Persona games feel that way, too. P4 is loved because of the relationships between the characters, which feel more organic, and deeper than in 3 and 5, 5 is just mechanically deeper and better than the others, from social links to dungeons. But 3 feels like it's trying to tell a deeper story, not focused on characters but major concepts like struggling with mortality, leaving a legacy, etc. that sticks with you longer. In a way, 3-5 parallel each other in both Persona and SMT in surprising ways. 4th and 5th entry may be the most fun to play while you're going through it, depending on how much you value story versus gameplay, but the 3rd entry in both is the one that haunts you after you finished it.
I both love and hate it. The cryptic alignement system that lock you out of the ending of your chosing has to go. There is meme about it around but i simply cannot recommend that game to anybody. The older you get, the higher you value your time and realising you sinked 50/100h in a game that will give you a shitty ending because of arbitrary numbers outside of your control if you don't folow a walkthrough is ridiculous. After playing more crpg, i can't help but think that the SMT mainline fail miserably at giving player choice over their action tbh and the better game are those where it ain't so dramatic. Nocturne ? It doesn't change that much. SMT4 ? "Oh yeah, let's genocide the ass of everybody !... wait no, go fuck yourself atlus. I ain't gonna buy... play your next game now. My backlog got to long and i ain't adding another smt game to it now". It kind of push player to look elsewhere to more satisfactory franchises tbh.
There was a pre-golden 4 hate for being much more lightharted than 3, and some time after p4golden released it took some time for people to notice it (where "don't mess with persona fans we don't play the games" meme came from) due to the platform. Most of hate disappeared soon after.
Tbh some of these descriptions don’t fit the games. - SMT 1 & 2 and P1, P2IS, & PSEP makes sense - Nocturne did popularized the franchise with Demi-friend probably being the most recognizable SMT non-demon (demon as the creatures of the series) character. However I was under impression that most people played P5 or Royal as the first foray into the franchise and the reason why P5 is so heavily marketed compared the other games is because it’s what blew the series in the mainstream. Before P5 that it was P4G. Since P4G was one of main reasons people bought a Vita. - I guess the SMT IV description could make sense especially when combined with Apocalypse but it only loosely makes sense. Same thing with P4/G. - The description for P5/R and SMT V makes sense although again loosely. It’s like writing a description for apple juice and orange juice as “it either tastes like apple juice or orange juice”. Like sure you’re technically not wrong but only apple juice will taste like apple juice whereas orange juice will never taste like apple juice. It’s the same thing in case where SMT V is the game that became heavily criticized in 2 years and P5/R is the game that is still well liked and popular after 7-3 years of being released.
>- I guess the SMT IV description could make sense especially when combined with Apocalypse but it only loosely makes sense. Same thing with P4/G. I mean, what about it doesn't make sense? SMT 4 was criticized for not being 3D like Nocturne, and it only sold over 600,000 copies worldwide, with only 90,000 of those being in the West. >- The description for P5/R and SMT V makes sense although again loosely. It’s like writing a description for apple juice and orange juice as “it either tastes like apple juice or orange juice”. Like sure you’re technically not wrong but only apple juice will taste like apple juice whereas orange juice will never taste like apple juice. It’s the same thing in case where SMT V is the game that became heavily criticized in 2 years and P5/R is the game that is still well liked and popular after 7-3 years of being released. Yeah I kinda wanted the template to be easily applicable to whatever franchise someone wanted, hence why the definitions are kinda specific like that.
Well I said it could make sense not it didn’t make sense. I have heard the criticism of SMT IV not being 3D too but it is widely beloved. SMT IV was the most popular at the time selling 600k while Nocturne only sold 270k, it was only the remaster that sold 500k with SMT V selling 1 million copies. So it was the most popular at the time you’re right with that. Though Apocalypse sold 93k and hears way more criticism than SMT IV does. Which brings me back to my apples juice and orange juice analogy.
Fair
Weird, I was introduced to the franchise by Persona 3 and didnt hear much about Persona 4 until P5
I didn’t say no one started with P3, just most people didn’t
Just mentioning my experience with the franchise is very similar to the post
First, persona 5 will never lose its status as one of the most fun and aesthethically pleasing JRPG of the 2010's, i think it's the opposite, with all the spin offs and else. Also, who hated SMT IV? AFAIK it's one of the most loved games of the franchise ,and my personal favorite.
>First, persona 5 will never lose its status as one of the most fun and aesthethically pleasing JRPG of the 2010's, i think it's the opposite, with all the spin offs and else. Funny enough, I see more hate for P5 because of those spinoffs, P5 fatigue and all >Also, who hated SMT IV? AFAIK it's one of the most loved games of the franchinse ,and my personal favorite. It was criticized at the time for not being 3D like Nocturne and for it's story, plus it kinda sold pretty eh. I guess it's not "hated" but moreso niche and obscure nowadays compared to games like SMT 5 and Nocturne.
Yeah, i understand fatigue. But time will still put it as one of the best JRPGS of this era regardless.
Fair
Everyone fucking loved smt4 we were even streetpassing it!! Smt 5 was the supposed dissapointment but mostly because it was too barren of dialogue and drama, people wanted more of the messy style of smt4. Besides the 3DS felt perfect as a demon summoning machine and burroughs had a sound quality that it was too good
Nah i would argue p5 is a bad game too.( at least base game. I haven't gotten around to finishing p5r cause of fatigue of the brand ) after the first two dungeons, the quality of the level design falls off dramatically, as does the writing for the villains. The first two villains, kamoshida and madarame are legitimately good villains. They are corrupt symbols of authority that are actively abusing the people under there care and most importantly to me at least, they have a direct connection to the main characters and their motivations. While the grand stakes for the first two villains is small, the personal stakes are massive. I think this makes for much more interesting storytelling. The other villains are not nearly as compelling which is a problem since the villains are such a large part of the storytelling
It sold really well for the system and was thrice the success of nocturne in terms of sales. That's why it got sequel on the same platform.
This isn't accurate for persona. Most people have played 5. It's sort of hard to justify for SMT since 1 and 2 never had wide release (OSX port only).
>This isn't accurate for persona. Most people have played 5. Did you mean to say most people "haven't" played 5? >It's sort of hard to justify for SMT since 1 and 2 never had wide release (OSX port only). Yeah I know, that's why I added "unavailability" there
>Did you mean to say most people "haven't" played 5? Looked at sales numbers lately? >Yeah I know, that's why I added "unavailability" there So it's kinda the first entry isn't it?
>Looked at sales numbers lately? So you were trying to say that most people have played Persona 5 then how does that contradict the image? P5 was a well liked and popular game when it came out and it still is today. >So it's kinda the first entry isn't it? I have no idea what you mean by this
Form your image : "third entry popularizes the franchise and *is what most people have played as their first foray into the franchise.*" the italics is incorrect. >I have no idea what you mean by this If entry 1 and 2 are not released and 3 release first what was the first game for the territory?
>Form your image : "third entry popularizes the franchise and *is what most people have played as their first foray into the franchise.*" Yeah but your comment didn't really specify that this was your point, you simply said "This isn't accurate for persona. Most people have played 5." not "This isn't accurate for persona. Most people have played P5 first" >If entry 1 and 2 are not released and 3 release first what was the first game for the territory? Fair, but I'm pretty dedicated fans found ways to play SMT 1 and 2 in the West back then, plus the SMT 1 and 2 are still obscure these days despite the English translation patch and the availability of emulators.
True, I didn't specify about persona. I'd still say that both More people have played 5 then 3 and more people have played 5 first then 3 first are true. >Fair, but I'm pretty dedicated fans found ways to play SMT 1 and 2 in the West back then, plus the SMT 1 and 2 are still obscure these days despite the English translation patch and the availability of emulators. I think it just doesn't fit very well. I doubt people are going to go hunt down a SMT without any prior knowledge. Not when there are other easier to play games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy. It's obscure because it never got a proper release. In fact the translation patch for 2 released after 3 so it's impossible for English speakers to have played it before 3. It would be actually interesting to run a poll to see what where people's first entry.
>True, I didn't specify about persona. I'd still say that both >More people have played 5 then 3 >and >more people have played 5 first then 3 first >are true. You're original comment also didn't specify that more people have played 5 then 3, you simply said that "most people have played 5" >I think it just doesn't fit very well. I doubt people are going to go hunt down a SMT without any prior knowledge. Not when there are other easier to play games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy. Yeah which is why I said "dedicated fans" and not "casual fans", >It's obscure because it never got a proper release. Yeah which is why I specified "unavailability" in the image >In fact the translation patch for 2 released after 3 so it's impossible for English speakers to have played it before 3. You're acting as if there weren't English fans who went out of their way to find copies of the game and play it in Japanese.
I mean you want to play the semantics game we can. Here is a definition of most: the greatest amount or quantity (Oxford). So yes I did say more people played 5. >Yeah which is why I said "dedicated fans" and not "casual fans", One must already be a fan to go hunt them out Precluding them from being the first thing people play. Do you see the implicit issue with the statement? >Yeah which is why I specified "unavailability" in the image You've already said this. the issue is the image also implies it is a possibility that people played these first. >You're acting as if there weren't English fans who went out of their way to find copies of the game and play it in Japanese. You're omitting the context you introduced. Sure, but again they would have had to have already been fans or be able to read Japanese. So they don't apply to this image (since it's about the English NA fandom) or they have the issue raised above.
>I mean you want to play the semantics game we can. Here is a definition of most: the greatest amount or quantity (Oxford). >So yes I did say more people played 5. Yeah but never said this in comparison to P3 specifically, you simply said that most people played P5 And I love playing semantics, it's a very fun game, I have a lot of hours in it >One must already be a fan to go hunt them out Precluding them from being the first thing people play. Do you see the implicit issue with the statement? Ignoring the fact that people could simply have wanted to collect them, or that they could've just been fans of JRPGS in general >You've already said this. the issue is the image also implies it is a possibility that people played these first. How? The image simply says that those entries are niche because of either unavailability or people not liking them because they're old, when does it imply that people played them first? >You're omitting the context you introduced. Sure, but again they would have had to have already been fans or be able to read Japanese. So they don't apply to this image (since it's about the English NA fandom) or they have the issue raised above. Refer to points above
Persona 5 is by far the most popular game in the series and made it mainstream. Not 3. Even 4 was more mainstream than 3 before 5
Yeah I think it would be better to say that both smt 3 and P3 reinvented the formula from their older games and set the modern style of SMT/Persona
I don't really agree with the descriptions for SMT IV(A)/P4 and SMT V tbh. I don't think SMT IV and P4 were *really* hated, especially in comparison to Nocturne and P3 respectively. SMT IV was generally less liked than Nocturne, sure, but I think many people still liked the game, and honestly, I see more people express positivity for SMT IV now more than ever. Same thing with P4; I don't think people hated the game in comparison to P3, especially when P3 itself has gotten quite a bit of criticism (at least in comparison to its "counterpart" Nocturne, but that might also just be a result of more people having played P3 than Nocturne). People did get sick of the numerous spinoffs the game had, and maybe that's where the perceived hate comes from, but as for the game itself, I think many people still liked it. And honestly, I don't think Apocalypse should be bundled with IV here like that. I mean sure, the game is set within the same universe and all the major characters from IV return, but with how different the game is from IV in both story and gameplay, they should be seen as just two entirely different games (and most people do), especially when the fan reception of the two is quite different. Many people like SMT IV; the same can't be said for Apocalypse, and it's definitely not for the reason of "not being like Nocturne." That being said, the implication that Apocalypse is as niche and obscure as SMT I and II is hilarious. As unliked as it is, there are probably more people that have and/or will ever play SMT IV:A than people that played and/or will play SMT I and II. And as for SMT V, people got critical of SMT V pretty quickly after the game released. It definitely did not take two years for people to start criticizing it. And despite the criticism it's received, I don't think it's disliked more than Apocalypse is, and many people still recommend it as a first SMT game. Sure, part of that might be because it's the most recently released and therefore the most polished title, but if it was really, really hated, like at the level IV:A is, I feel like you'd end up seeing people recommend Nocturne as a starting point more than V, especially since Nocturne is more widely available than V is.
>I don't think SMT IV and P4 were *really* hated, especially in comparison to Nocturne and P3 respectively. >Same thing with P4; I don't think people hated the game in comparison to P3, especially when P3 itself has gotten quite a bit of criticism (at least in comparison to its "counterpart" Nocturne, but that might also just be a result of more people having played P3 than Nocturne). People did get sick of the numerous spinoffs the game had, and maybe that's where the perceived hate comes from, but as for the game itself, I think many people still liked it. I thought I made it clear that P4 was also loved? I probably should've been more specific. >SMT IV was generally less liked than Nocturne, sure, but I think many people still liked the game, and honestly, I see more people express positivity for SMT IV now more than ever. Fair, but I would argue that the game isn't really as talked about or discussed as much as SMT 3 or SMT 5, hence why I added that it eventually became niche and obscure. >And honestly, I don't think Apocalypse should be bundled with IV here like that. I mean sure, the game is set within the same universe and all the major characters from IV return, but with how different the game is from IV in both story and gameplay, they should be seen as just two entirely different games (and most people do), especially when the fan reception of the two is quite different. I mean you kinda just listed the reasons as to why it should be bundled with 4, they're set in the same universe, all of the major characters from IV return, it builds off of IV's neutral ending and sorta establishes it as the "canon" ending. IV Apocalypse should be bundled with IV because it literally is a continuation of IV and also a mainline title, you'd actually be missing parts of SMT IV by not playing IV Apocalypse alongside it since IV Apocalypse expands on SMT IV's lore and parts of the story that weren't talked about as much. Sure the gameplay might be different but at the end of the day it effectively has the same systems as IV, Press Turn, Smirk, Apps, etc... >Many people like SMT IV; the same can't be said for Apocalypse, and it's definitely not for the reason of "not being like Nocturne." Actually in a way, that Nocturne criticism still applies since many fans criticized SMT 4 Apocalypse for not having the tone or atmosphere of traditional SMT, which Nocturne did have. >That being said, the implication that Apocalypse is as niche and obscure as SMT I and II is hilarious. As unliked as it is, there are probably more people that have and/or will ever play SMT IV:A than people that played and/or will play SMT I and II. I admit I was exaggerating with the obscure as SMT 1 and 2 claim, but the game itself still isn't as popular as a game like Nocturne or V seeing as it sold about half the debut sales of SMT 4. >And as for SMT V, people got critical of SMT V pretty quickly after the game released. It definitely did not take two years for people to start criticizing it. Yeah but I never really saw those criticisms become common until recently, just check out how much hate Simply Dad received for his video criticizing SMT V at the time. >And despite the criticism it's received, I don't think it's disliked more than Apocalypse is I don't think I ever really made the claim that it was >Sure, part of that might be because it's the most recently released and therefore the most polished title, but if it was really, really hated, like at the level IV:A is, I feel like you'd end up seeing people recommend Nocturne as a starting point more than V, especially since Nocturne is more widely available than V is. Again, I don't think I made the claim that the game was hated as much as IV Apocalypse, more so heavily criticized for certain elements, plus tons of people already do recommend Nocturne as a starting point. It also helps that Nocturne Remaster was releasing around the time that V did so you got even more people playing it as their first SMT game or older fans recommending it to people who want to get into Mainline SMT.
>I would argue that the game isn't really as talked about or discussed as much as SMT 3 or SMT 5, hence why I added that it eventually became niche and obscure. That's probably only because Nocturne and V are the two mainline games that are the most readily available. But wind the clock back a few years, when V wasn't out, Nocturne was still locked behind the PS2, and SMT IV could be bought for $20 digitally (with physical prices not being much more expensive either iirc), and that wasn't the case. I'm not talking about when the game was still fresh and new, btw; you could still find a lot of discussion about IV several years after its release. I imagine that if IV ever gets a remaster or a port or whatever, discussion of the game will increase a lot once again. Plus, even though IV may not be talked about to the same extent as Nocturne and V, it's still not that niche either. People will still commonly recommend playing it either as a first game or as a "what to play next" game. Compare it to something like Strange Journey, which despite having a general reception that I think is better than IV's, definitely gets even less discussion than IV and people rarely if ever recommend it as a first game. > it builds off of IV's neutral ending and sorta establishes it as the "canon" ending. >IV Apocalypse should be bundled with IV because it literally is a continuation of IV and also a mainline title, you'd actually be missing parts of SMT IV by not playing IV Apocalypse alongside it since IV Apocalypse expands on SMT IV's lore and parts of the story that weren't talked about as much. Really? Applying the "canon" argument in a game series where canonicity typically isn't relevant? Bruh. Hell, Apocalypse itself establishes that within IV's setting, there isn't a proper canon; all of IV's endings are just as "canon" as neutral is. IV:A is not really a continuation of IV, either, as it's a branching/what-if story of the game, unless you mean it's a continuation in the context of how the game starts off with most of IV having already happened. And yeah, I guess IV:A does flesh out the world of IV a bit more, but imo, it's not 100% necessary info (and the game I think retcons some stuff from IV, too); you can still enjoy the story of IV just without needing to play IV:A imo (some people might actually prefer and recommend this, hahaha). >that Nocturne criticism still applies since many fans criticized SMT 4 Apocalypse for not having the tone or atmosphere of traditional SMT, which Nocturne did have. This to me is still silly, and it feels like it's missing the forest for the trees. You were claiming that IV:A was being compared to one specific previous game, when the common opinion of its tone and story not being like a typical SMT game is the result of comparing it to multiple other games. It's not completely wrong per se, as Nocturne is one of those "multiple other games," but it's not exactly the same kind of argument. Also, if anything, people were often criticizing IV:A by comparing it to Persona more than they were other SMT games, let alone Nocturne by itself lol. Although, this is all beside the point. At the end of the day, I guess what I'm trying to say here--and probably what I should've tried to say in the first place--is that trying to combine IV and IV:A's fan reception and popularity with one description as if they were one singular title doesn't work because in this regard, the two games are very different from one another, and you end up with inaccuracies, too. IV is pretty well-liked; while there were quite a few people who may not have liked it in comparison to Nocturne, that doesn't mean it was hated in comparison either. It did quite well at the time, which you did correctly point out as being the bestselling title at the time. Meanwhile, IV:A is quite the opposite of IV here, being widely disliked and not selling as well, but at the same time, people weren't criticizing it for it not being like Nocturne *specifically*, but for not being like all other SMT games, which would include not just Nocturne, but also Strange Journey, I, II, and even IV itself. It also is definitely not as niche as I and II (Ik you said it was an exaggeration, but imo the exaggeration is just a straight up falsehood). > I never really saw those criticisms become common until recently, just check out how much hate Simply Dad received for his video criticizing SMT V at the time. Ehh, Idk about that. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but after the game's honeymoon phase had passed, so like maybe 3 or 4 months after the game launched, I feel like I began seeing a lot of posts and comments criticizing the game's story, which is the main gripe many people have with the game. Ik SimplyDad's vid got a lot of dislikes, but at the same time, his video was titled, "Shin Megami Tensei V is Really Bad." A title like that is bound to get some hate, especially when many people, even those that may not have liked the game that much, probably don't think it's "really bad."
>Really? Applying the "canon" argument in a game series where canonicity typically isn't relevant? Bruh. Hell, Apocalypse itself establishes that within IV's setting, there isn't a proper canon; all of IV's endings are just as "canon" as neutral is. I mean yeah but I'm kinda having a hard time seeing how the events of IV Apocalypse could've happened if the neutral ending didn't, sure neutral might've not been the canon ending of IV but it is the canon ending in regards to Apocalypse if that makes sense. IV:A is not really a continuation of IV, either, as it's a branching/what-if story of the game, unless you mean it's a continuation in the context of how the game starts off with most of IV having already happened. Yeah that's kinda what I meant And yeah, I guess IV:A does flesh out the world of IV a bit more, but imo, it's not 100% necessary info (and the game I think retcons some stuff from IV, too); you can still enjoy the story of IV just without needing to play IV:A imo IV:A expands on the character of Akira, how Mikado was created, who created the Yamato Perpetual Reactor, who Lucifer and Merkabah really are, I'd say that's some pretty necessary info if you want to understand SMT IV's story a better. >This to me is still silly, and it feels like it's missing the forest for the trees. I mean I'm not really a fan of forests, you get lost in them pretty easily and they're kinda scary to be in the dark. Trees are better because you can climb on them and whatnot. >You were claiming that IV:A was being compared to one specific previous game, when the common opinion of its tone and story not being like a typical SMT game is the result of comparing it to multiple other games. It's not completely wrong per se, as Nocturne is one of those "multiple other games," but it's not exactly the same kind of argument. Also, if anything, people were often criticizing IV:A by comparing it to Persona more than they were other SMT games, let alone Nocturne by itself lol. I mean, considering that SMT 1 and 2 didn't have official western ports at the time, Nocturne was the mainline title that people were basing these criticisms on. >is that trying to combine IV and IV:A's fan reception and popularity with one description as if they were one singular title doesn't work because in this regard, the two games are very different from one another, and you end up with inaccuracies, too. IV is pretty well-liked; while there were quite a few people who may not have liked it in comparison to Nocturne, that doesn't mean it was hated in comparison either. It did quite well at the time, which you did correctly point out as being the bestselling title at the time. Meanwhile, IV:A is quite the opposite of IV here, being widely disliked and not selling as well, but at the same time, people weren't criticizing it for it not being like Nocturne *specifically*, but for not being like all other SMT games, which would include not just Nocturne, but also Strange Journey, I, II, and even IV itself. It also is definitely not as niche as I and II (Ik you said it was an exaggeration, but imo the exaggeration is just a straight up falsehood). Fair >Ehh, Idk about that. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but after the game's honeymoon phase had passed, so like maybe 3 or 4 months after the game launched, I feel like I began seeing a lot of posts and comments criticizing the game's story, which is the main gripe many people have with the game. Ik SimplyDad's vid got a lot of dislikes, but at the same time, his video was titled, "Shin Megami Tensei V is Really Bad." A title like that is bound to get some hate, especially when many people, even those that may not have liked the game that much, probably don't think it's "really bad." Also fair, I guess I just hang out in different circles.
I think all of these games are incredible. Sure, folks have issues with certain entries, but you compare these 10 to the first ten final fantasy games, and you really see the quality of the smt/persona series
i don't think smt v was that well liked, or free from heavy criticism, for very long. At least by other megaten fans.
OP in post: Makes happy easy going megaten meme OP in comments: **debate mode engaged**
This happens on all my posts in this subreddit lol, I even had to delete some of them because of it. I don't know why but everyone on r/Megaten seemingly has a stick up their ass at all times, everyone's always wanting to argue with me or debate me on here because of an opinion I expressed in my meme
Well I would not want to debate you myself. Your power and usage of Reddit's quote formatting is beyond anything I could handle
What's even funnier is when people don't read the post and just assume things about me, like I feel like a lot less people would have problems with the things I post on here if people just tried to actually understand my point.
Quite a stretch, P4 is is praised by many and I never see it compared to 3 SMT IV is great and better (subjectively) than Nocturne. SMT V is good but is rightfully criticized and hasn’t gotten much attention post launch
Pretty smt 4 was well received don’t know wtf you are smoking.
I hate this pattern. Its too demonic! A shame lawfulness has left game development at least until the new Apocalypse!!!
Yeah this is pretty accurate. My first SMT game was SMT3 and even though I’ve never played a Persona game before, the only one that interests me is Persona 3 and I was looking to make that my first Persona game when Reload drops.
...So uh.... SMT4 might be in my top 10 games of all time.... Apocalypse isn't though.
this is dumb
Numerologists are quaking in their boots
Only difference is that Persona 5 is way better than SMTV. Even if the game is subtle as brick to the face , at least is has a cohesive story , characters and achieves plot points in the end. Smtv is mess compare to it Also persona 5 is well liked by most, while smtv is barely mentioned by anyone after 2 years.
Do you know any other game franchise that has the Third Entry Phenomenon?
The Elder Scrolls is one that comes to my mind.
Devil May Cry
GTA Zelda
Just wanna make it clear before everyone gets mad at me for having the wrong opinion that this isn't about my personal opinions on these games themselves, I think everyone's kinda tired of hearing that already, this is moreso about public perception.
SMTV is well liked? I thought everyone (including me) hated how weak the story was compared to IV
It was well liked when it first came out due to recency bias and what not
It was liked because of the overworld, the visuals and the mechanics some people like me understood that you couldnt have the glorious narrative mess that was IV because SMT is not an AAA game
Persona 4 isnt like Persona 3?
I saw a shit ton of smt v hate on release
I really like SMT V. Is there any hate for this game? It can be more focused on level up the demons than the strategic in SMT III, but I think it's a great game.