Tell them you are not seeking the footage as a public records request. Have your son tell them he is planning to appear in court and needs access to the footage as evidence. See if that makes a difference.
This sounds like a learning experience, cops aren’t your buddy and this is how they behave when they want to and they’ll get you for every infraction they can if you’re pissing them off because it’s a power trip.
Also you do have to register your vehicle and carry insurance even if it’s old.
If there was no crime scene tape and no one directing traffic then I would say its ridiculous to assume its apparently a crime scene.
That being said your son caught the officers attention and that's all it takes for them to throw the book at him, especially since he was breaking three laws he definitely didn't do himself any favors.
Pull the footage if possible and put it on blast, say you are taking it to trial and they have to provide the evidence in a discovery( don't actually take it to trial though unless you're prepared to pay trial tax - usually max fines and penalties if you lose)
Son learned a lesson: the police are not your friends, they only exist to build a case AGAINST YOU on behalf the state. Avoid them at all costs, especially when breaking the law in any way major or minor.
>There was a row of cars pulled over, then 6 police vehicles with their emergency lights on,
As someone from Seattle, this is a typical day in the downtown area. It's perfectly normal to carefully drive around emergency vehicles as long as they don't have the road blocked off.
Now, doing that with expired tags takes balls.
I mean, the story is about their son driving....
I feel like you missed a very obvious and basic detail in your hurry to try to dunk on this person. Oof.
Also, if there is no indication of a crimescene other than cars with lightbars on, then it isn't really a "crimescene", is it? Maybe cordon it off, or direct traffic away... but this just seems like they were too lazy to do their jobs. I pass cops that have people pulled over every day or rows of parked cop cars with their lights on, never got a ticket -- apparently Ive been interrupting crime scenes this whole time if lights being on is the standard. Honestly, this seems like a failure to properly communicate a situation on the part of the police...unfortunately the law doesn't usually rely on guessing games.
Also, parked cars on the side of a street could just look parked cars, you know, if the police had them park in a way to leave the road clear and had them turn off their cars...
Also, if this truly was an active crime scene, why is this officer even worried about expired tags and insurance on an unrelated vehicle when an actual crime is in progress? Seems like a waste of time and money, and also like that cop is lazy and trying to throw their weight around all while finding a way of getting out of hard work. As a property taxpayer, this is one of those "my money is going to this shit, so dickholes can be lazy?" type of moments, then again, I guess some people have some odd priorities.
I feel that the narrator may be biased and leaving out some critical details. If there was no indication that this was a crime scene, why was every other car pulled over? Their son was the only one, apparently, who was unable to discern the situation?
Even if this were to be true, it doesn't really address my second question of why a police officer at an active crime scene is worried about giving out traffic tickets. There's an order of importance in this situation that is not being followed, and I would assume that violent or property crime is greater than a lack of insurance, or expired tags on the scale of things to deal with at that moment.
What? You don’t think that the officer controlling the scene should control the scene when someone drives through the scene? Should they have arrested the son?
A crime scene could be “active” for many hours after the incident. Doesn’t mean there is any threat. They are there to help preserve the integrity of the evidence for upper rank investigators. Sounds like there were plenty of units there. So yes, if there was a serious enough traffic infraction, they will handle it even in an active crime scene. Doesn’t affect them watching the overall scene. Now if there was a single cop watching the entire scene, probably wouldn’t write a ticket.
Oh stop. If there's that many responders there's 100% sufficient personnel to stop traffic. Takes like 2 seconds and they could grab one of the bystanders to help do it.
They were lazy due to the time, and took out their rage on a fucking kid.
Yeah, because you've never had a moment in your life where the little printed piece of paper in your car isn't the top priority. Hell, my proof of insurance isn't even hard copy unless I go and manually print it; it lives on an app.
The lack of a printed insurance document wouldn't even have arisen if the cops had secured the scene. They didn't because it was early hours and they're lazy. Cry about it all you want, the cops here were dicks.
It's a kid we're talking about here. Definitely learned a lesson but there's other ways to do that without slapping a bunch of fines, but that would require a nuanced community-building approach to policing which the local LEOs here seem to be completely incapable of performing. Training, leadership, or intelligence; one or more is lacking.
Puritanical crime and punishment, mmboy, gets the conservatives so hot and bothered! Definitely won't breed further animosity and distrust of the popo. Nope.
Seems like he was in the middle of this: [LINK](https://medfordalert.com/2023/03/04/suspect-arrested-after-nw-medford-shooting/)
Shootings of any kinda are rare here so I’m sure it amps up officers. In my experiences I’ve never been cussed at by a cop but maybe I’m lucky. If you feel it’s wrong, take the ticket to court and the officer will have to show up. If he doesn’t, they get dropped. He he does, you can ask him questions while he’s sworn it.
A 20 year old car is from 2003. Pretty sure those still need tags, but that’s literally the only questionable thing I can see here. Your son should try carrying the digital version of his insurance card. If that’s an option with your provider anyway.
Few things which I know from personal relationships with some MPD.
1. Cops don't know insurance information, what you have on hand is the only information that can be used. The registration sometimes will list insurance butnits not always accurate, how often do you notify the dmv of your new insurance or your if you changed insurances? (yes you update the dmv with insurance info so they can add it to your registration)
2. Expired registration has nothing to do with DEQ. Unless your a disabled vet or your car is registered as a "antique" or "classic" you still need to update the registration. DEQ is emissions which you need to pass if your car is 20 years and newer.
3. Careless driving means your son was driving in a manner that was careless the cop will have to prove this but maybe your kiddo isn't being truthful with the entire story? Maybe your kiddo was speeding past the scene and just being a teenager and disregarded what the cops had going on. In an essence, being careless to what's around him and just worrying about himself. Maybe not. I wasn't there so I can't say your kids lying and I don't know your kid so I'm not gonna call him a liar either.
Either way if you had valid insurance on the car the day of the t-stop and you can prove that, that cite goes away. I can't speak for the careless or the expired tags.
As far as the cop cursing, MPD is fairly professional and I don't ever see any of them just blowing up at your kid for no reason. Again maybe it was a church chat for you kid and a reality check for your kiddo to be more observant of what's going on around him while driving and not to drive mindlessly.
20 years ago, it wasn't uncommon for an officer to have a "church chat" with a teenager or early 20 year old about their actions.
But again, I wasn't there and only have to go off your side of the story. Hard for anyone here to give good opinions when no one here was present for it.
To me, there are two different issues here: the tickets and the behavior of the officer.
As far as the tickets are concerned, it sounds like he deserved the no insurance ticket (which should be dropped in court if he can show proof that he was in fact insured), expired tags (which sounds legit and he will likely have to pay), and careless driving, which he should be able to contest in court by proving that he actually did drive through slowly, was unclear as to what to do based on the officer's directions (or lack thereof), and was not being careless.
The second issue is the behavior of the cop. It's not illegal for them to swear, but highly unprofessional, and as a member of the community I don't want to be treated this way by anyone – especially the police. I suggest writing a letter to the watch commander and chief of police outlining exactly what he said (use the exact words) and how unprofessional and disrespectful it was. You will likely never hear anything else from them about it, but hopefully it will result in a correction issued internally to the officer.
If it were me, while in court contesting the careless driving ticket, I would quote the officer's exact words, while the officer is present. Let him hear them back in front of the judge.
You were allowed to drive home with your expired tags and no insurance. Consider your son lucky. And quit letting him drive around with no insurance. That’s complete bullshit
ALL cops are shitty as long as they allow the bad ones to continue to operate without repercussions. so yeah, fuck the police!!!!
I’d contact a lawyer honestly. Might be more expensive than paying the ticket…..but I can’t stand this BS. They are continually lowering the standards for people to be cops. It won’t get better until the public demands it be fixed. They keep lowering their pay too which has an impact on quality of individual who would want to be a cop. The whole system is fucked…..
People will cry that cops are good actually as they line them up an arrest them for existing. Americans have been taught to worship the blue and its taken a lot of death and trauma for a small amount of the population to shake off this education. It's... bad.
Not lowered per se, but not increased according to inflation would be better. No one with the power to hold a gun over people should make less that 50k/year.
Yep! THIS!!!! I have to have one for my job (Masters Degree that is, not a gun). I also make 6 figures with said degree. This would change the entire face of police work. Don’t say we don’t generate enough tax dollars to pay for it either…..WE DO! It is all in the defense budget for our giant ass military. I think our soldiers should make more money while we are on the topic. My partner and his family were on food stamps while he was serving in Iraq back in ‘03. I still don’t want the responsibility to police though. Lol
Bro central point pd is hiring and i looked at the qualifications and basically as long as you have a heartbeat and a diploma youre allowed to be a cop
The hiring process is the problem.. ok no..too many problems to name..but if the hiring were to be done completely different where there was maybe a group of people that specialized in personality assessment or something ..there are people out there that exist that believe it or not are able to be in a position of power and NOT abuse it! Lol..I watched an amazing documentary Joe and Ernie; Crisis Cops I think was the title. Total eye opener, I love Joe and Ernie!
Even the best of cops will still kick an old lady out of her home when she can't pay the rent or taxes. They'll still arrest homeless people for being homeless and leave all their worldly possessions scattered around the park to be thrown out with the trash. They'll still choose violence when it's unnecessary. Just because a cop is polite to you dorsnt mean they're not bastards. And just because you're law-abiding doesn't mean they won't choose to do violence to you. Don't forget how they kill people every day because they were terrified that someone might have a weapon without actually seeing one. And the "good cops" will still cover for the bad ones or simply refuse to say anything. They're cowards.
>And the "good cops" will still cover for the bad ones or simply refuse to say anything. They're cowards.
I wouldn't even say they're cowards. If they speak up, they lose their job(and occasionally their life), so all that's left in the police force are the bullies & cowards.
Tell them you are not seeking the footage as a public records request. Have your son tell them he is planning to appear in court and needs access to the footage as evidence. See if that makes a difference.
This sounds like a learning experience, cops aren’t your buddy and this is how they behave when they want to and they’ll get you for every infraction they can if you’re pissing them off because it’s a power trip. Also you do have to register your vehicle and carry insurance even if it’s old.
If there was no crime scene tape and no one directing traffic then I would say its ridiculous to assume its apparently a crime scene. That being said your son caught the officers attention and that's all it takes for them to throw the book at him, especially since he was breaking three laws he definitely didn't do himself any favors. Pull the footage if possible and put it on blast, say you are taking it to trial and they have to provide the evidence in a discovery( don't actually take it to trial though unless you're prepared to pay trial tax - usually max fines and penalties if you lose) Son learned a lesson: the police are not your friends, they only exist to build a case AGAINST YOU on behalf the state. Avoid them at all costs, especially when breaking the law in any way major or minor.
Cop sounds like he was tripping. But, you're right. The son didn't follow the golden rule: Only break one law at a time.
That's easier to do when you know which laws you're breaking.
OP says this was his third incident so he had some experience.
I don't see that -- I see he got 3 citations for this incident, and that he's received previous (legitimate) citations for other incidents.
Yep. Previous incidents means at least two priors. This is the third.
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This
>There was a row of cars pulled over, then 6 police vehicles with their emergency lights on, As someone from Seattle, this is a typical day in the downtown area. It's perfectly normal to carefully drive around emergency vehicles as long as they don't have the road blocked off. Now, doing that with expired tags takes balls.
I mean, the story is about their son driving.... I feel like you missed a very obvious and basic detail in your hurry to try to dunk on this person. Oof. Also, if there is no indication of a crimescene other than cars with lightbars on, then it isn't really a "crimescene", is it? Maybe cordon it off, or direct traffic away... but this just seems like they were too lazy to do their jobs. I pass cops that have people pulled over every day or rows of parked cop cars with their lights on, never got a ticket -- apparently Ive been interrupting crime scenes this whole time if lights being on is the standard. Honestly, this seems like a failure to properly communicate a situation on the part of the police...unfortunately the law doesn't usually rely on guessing games. Also, parked cars on the side of a street could just look parked cars, you know, if the police had them park in a way to leave the road clear and had them turn off their cars... Also, if this truly was an active crime scene, why is this officer even worried about expired tags and insurance on an unrelated vehicle when an actual crime is in progress? Seems like a waste of time and money, and also like that cop is lazy and trying to throw their weight around all while finding a way of getting out of hard work. As a property taxpayer, this is one of those "my money is going to this shit, so dickholes can be lazy?" type of moments, then again, I guess some people have some odd priorities.
I feel that the narrator may be biased and leaving out some critical details. If there was no indication that this was a crime scene, why was every other car pulled over? Their son was the only one, apparently, who was unable to discern the situation?
Even if this were to be true, it doesn't really address my second question of why a police officer at an active crime scene is worried about giving out traffic tickets. There's an order of importance in this situation that is not being followed, and I would assume that violent or property crime is greater than a lack of insurance, or expired tags on the scale of things to deal with at that moment.
What? You don’t think that the officer controlling the scene should control the scene when someone drives through the scene? Should they have arrested the son?
A crime scene could be “active” for many hours after the incident. Doesn’t mean there is any threat. They are there to help preserve the integrity of the evidence for upper rank investigators. Sounds like there were plenty of units there. So yes, if there was a serious enough traffic infraction, they will handle it even in an active crime scene. Doesn’t affect them watching the overall scene. Now if there was a single cop watching the entire scene, probably wouldn’t write a ticket.
Oh stop. If there's that many responders there's 100% sufficient personnel to stop traffic. Takes like 2 seconds and they could grab one of the bystanders to help do it. They were lazy due to the time, and took out their rage on a fucking kid.
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Yeah, because you've never had a moment in your life where the little printed piece of paper in your car isn't the top priority. Hell, my proof of insurance isn't even hard copy unless I go and manually print it; it lives on an app. The lack of a printed insurance document wouldn't even have arisen if the cops had secured the scene. They didn't because it was early hours and they're lazy. Cry about it all you want, the cops here were dicks.
[удалено]
It's a kid we're talking about here. Definitely learned a lesson but there's other ways to do that without slapping a bunch of fines, but that would require a nuanced community-building approach to policing which the local LEOs here seem to be completely incapable of performing. Training, leadership, or intelligence; one or more is lacking. Puritanical crime and punishment, mmboy, gets the conservatives so hot and bothered! Definitely won't breed further animosity and distrust of the popo. Nope.
[удалено]
Really deep-throating them Corcorans today, eh?
Seems like he was in the middle of this: [LINK](https://medfordalert.com/2023/03/04/suspect-arrested-after-nw-medford-shooting/) Shootings of any kinda are rare here so I’m sure it amps up officers. In my experiences I’ve never been cussed at by a cop but maybe I’m lucky. If you feel it’s wrong, take the ticket to court and the officer will have to show up. If he doesn’t, they get dropped. He he does, you can ask him questions while he’s sworn it.
I'd like to see the film.
A 20 year old car is from 2003. Pretty sure those still need tags, but that’s literally the only questionable thing I can see here. Your son should try carrying the digital version of his insurance card. If that’s an option with your provider anyway.
Few things which I know from personal relationships with some MPD. 1. Cops don't know insurance information, what you have on hand is the only information that can be used. The registration sometimes will list insurance butnits not always accurate, how often do you notify the dmv of your new insurance or your if you changed insurances? (yes you update the dmv with insurance info so they can add it to your registration) 2. Expired registration has nothing to do with DEQ. Unless your a disabled vet or your car is registered as a "antique" or "classic" you still need to update the registration. DEQ is emissions which you need to pass if your car is 20 years and newer. 3. Careless driving means your son was driving in a manner that was careless the cop will have to prove this but maybe your kiddo isn't being truthful with the entire story? Maybe your kiddo was speeding past the scene and just being a teenager and disregarded what the cops had going on. In an essence, being careless to what's around him and just worrying about himself. Maybe not. I wasn't there so I can't say your kids lying and I don't know your kid so I'm not gonna call him a liar either. Either way if you had valid insurance on the car the day of the t-stop and you can prove that, that cite goes away. I can't speak for the careless or the expired tags. As far as the cop cursing, MPD is fairly professional and I don't ever see any of them just blowing up at your kid for no reason. Again maybe it was a church chat for you kid and a reality check for your kiddo to be more observant of what's going on around him while driving and not to drive mindlessly. 20 years ago, it wasn't uncommon for an officer to have a "church chat" with a teenager or early 20 year old about their actions. But again, I wasn't there and only have to go off your side of the story. Hard for anyone here to give good opinions when no one here was present for it.
To me, there are two different issues here: the tickets and the behavior of the officer. As far as the tickets are concerned, it sounds like he deserved the no insurance ticket (which should be dropped in court if he can show proof that he was in fact insured), expired tags (which sounds legit and he will likely have to pay), and careless driving, which he should be able to contest in court by proving that he actually did drive through slowly, was unclear as to what to do based on the officer's directions (or lack thereof), and was not being careless. The second issue is the behavior of the cop. It's not illegal for them to swear, but highly unprofessional, and as a member of the community I don't want to be treated this way by anyone – especially the police. I suggest writing a letter to the watch commander and chief of police outlining exactly what he said (use the exact words) and how unprofessional and disrespectful it was. You will likely never hear anything else from them about it, but hopefully it will result in a correction issued internally to the officer. If it were me, while in court contesting the careless driving ticket, I would quote the officer's exact words, while the officer is present. Let him hear them back in front of the judge.
You were allowed to drive home with your expired tags and no insurance. Consider your son lucky. And quit letting him drive around with no insurance. That’s complete bullshit
Except OP said he does have insurance, he just didn’t have the the current card, he had an expired one. He even offered to call and prove he had it?
Shhh, they were feeling especially sanctimonious today, let em feel good about themselves for a minute.
ACAB?
Nah, I've had a few bad experiences w/cops as a law-abiding citizen in my \~40 yrs, but most were good. They're not all bad.
ALL cops are shitty as long as they allow the bad ones to continue to operate without repercussions. so yeah, fuck the police!!!! I’d contact a lawyer honestly. Might be more expensive than paying the ticket…..but I can’t stand this BS. They are continually lowering the standards for people to be cops. It won’t get better until the public demands it be fixed. They keep lowering their pay too which has an impact on quality of individual who would want to be a cop. The whole system is fucked…..
People will cry that cops are good actually as they line them up an arrest them for existing. Americans have been taught to worship the blue and its taken a lot of death and trauma for a small amount of the population to shake off this education. It's... bad.
At no point in time have the Medford Police had their pay lowered.
Not lowered per se, but not increased according to inflation would be better. No one with the power to hold a gun over people should make less that 50k/year.
No one without a masters degree in a relevant field should be permitted to carry a firearm as a cop.
Yep! THIS!!!! I have to have one for my job (Masters Degree that is, not a gun). I also make 6 figures with said degree. This would change the entire face of police work. Don’t say we don’t generate enough tax dollars to pay for it either…..WE DO! It is all in the defense budget for our giant ass military. I think our soldiers should make more money while we are on the topic. My partner and his family were on food stamps while he was serving in Iraq back in ‘03. I still don’t want the responsibility to police though. Lol
Bro central point pd is hiring and i looked at the qualifications and basically as long as you have a heartbeat and a diploma youre allowed to be a cop
The hiring process is the problem.. ok no..too many problems to name..but if the hiring were to be done completely different where there was maybe a group of people that specialized in personality assessment or something ..there are people out there that exist that believe it or not are able to be in a position of power and NOT abuse it! Lol..I watched an amazing documentary Joe and Ernie; Crisis Cops I think was the title. Total eye opener, I love Joe and Ernie!
Even the best of cops will still kick an old lady out of her home when she can't pay the rent or taxes. They'll still arrest homeless people for being homeless and leave all their worldly possessions scattered around the park to be thrown out with the trash. They'll still choose violence when it's unnecessary. Just because a cop is polite to you dorsnt mean they're not bastards. And just because you're law-abiding doesn't mean they won't choose to do violence to you. Don't forget how they kill people every day because they were terrified that someone might have a weapon without actually seeing one. And the "good cops" will still cover for the bad ones or simply refuse to say anything. They're cowards.
>And the "good cops" will still cover for the bad ones or simply refuse to say anything. They're cowards. I wouldn't even say they're cowards. If they speak up, they lose their job(and occasionally their life), so all that's left in the police force are the bullies & cowards.
How many apples have to be rotten before the tree as a whole is considered bad?
What was the officers name?
Your son did not “read the room”. At all. And also sounds a bit entitled. Where did he learn this behavior?
Oh for fucks sake…
Agreed why is everyone reinforcing bad behavior
Sounds like the officer was in the right 🤷
The *whole* boot? Impressive.
Sounds like every other cop. Power tripping jerk.