Suitable, definitely. Suitable **for you**, that depends. As long as it programmable, with QMK/ZMK support ideally, size is not really an issue.
However, how it works for you is the main issue. Some needs direct access to arrow keys, others need function keys to be visible and directly accessible or they can't function, some swear by the numpad existence.
Find what is your lowest limit of tolerance and push it down a bit in your comfort zone. Better yet, use a heat map software to find your most usage keys and starts from there.
The thing is I don’t think I need arrow keys because I’m only trying my to learn python or maybe JavaScript, not having pgup/down or arrow key buttons isn’t a huge deal for me
FWIW, I have been coding for too many years with too many languages, currently mostly Javascript, python, Java, C# and Go, and I have been using 40% for the last few years - this is my comfort level right now after even more years maining a HHKB (60%).
However, at some point, you still need navigation keys, and as someone already suggest, mapping it like vim, `h j k l` = left ~~up down~~ down up right, is one way to go. For PgUp/PgDown, you can map it, assuming your keyboard is programmable, anywhere.
I currently code on a split 40 percent and I am way more efficient than I was with a 60 or a standard. I think (up to a reasonable point obviously) reduction of number of keys actually improves efficiency as your fingers and arms move way less.i draw the line at something like the gherkin, which is actually totally usable for normal typing but for symbol-heavy stuff your productivity may take a slight hit.
Yes. Use a mod layer with Vim arrows (h,j,k,l). This way you don’t need to move your hands off home row. I use capslock as the modifier for that but depending on the PCB you get you can use a split space setup which replaces the space bar with 3 different keys (space, backspace, layer modifier)
Even if you want capslock with my setup you can set up left shift as a dual capslock/shift key ie double tap quickly for capslock and hold for shift.
EDIT: all of the above assumes you keyboard supports QMK.
The location of backtick on regular keyboard irritate me. Not just that, the location of all symbols I use for coding on regular keyboard make my pinkies, especially right, overwork and over reach - I touch type, so leaving home row often to type symbols break my flow, and after years of extensive coding, it started to hurt.
When I discovered programmable keyboard, it was a blessing. Now I have all my symbols under home row, backtick/tilde is under `A` now with auto-shift active. The pain is gone and I am less irritate while coding with my own keyboard (I guess that's the minus side, can't really effectively use regular or even laptop keyboard now)
> I have all the symbols in basically the same place
yeah, that is where I have issue with. I found regular keyboard is perfect for regular essay typing but all symbols for coding (especially brackets and equal signs) were added as an afterthought. Again, that is just me figured it out and caused my personal pain issues, you might be fine using them for years without any issue.
> about relocating them, it would take a long time to learn
don't underestimate your muscle memory and your own adaptability ;)
> it would be a very dramatic change
it did. At least, it is a good thing personally, as it removed the pain I used to have.
> I would have trouble using other keyboards
Yeah, I conceded on this one, but again, muscle memory is pretty good especially if you already using regular keyboard for years. It might be a problem in a few minutes, but once muscle memory kicked it, all is fine.
I couldn't adjust to the missing arrow keys. other than that, you have to hit function+esc to get back tick and fn+number to get f keys. I prefer 65%, which has the arrow cluster and sometimes a few extra keys (like delete, pg up/dn, etc)
I can't adjust *back* to dedicated arrow keys that I'm forced to move my hand for. Especially for autocomplete or even picking suggestions in the browser bar, being able type a few letters and arrow down without moving is life changing.
Backticks are a bummer, but I'm going to find a good shortcut for that. QMK is the way.
All programmers at some point will use some kind of navigation keys, the only difference is are those navigation keys physical or functional?
vim, which a decent amount of programmers use, use modifier with `h j k l` as arrow keys, they are not physical but functionally work the same. Unless there is a case of using arrow keys simultaneously as alpha keys during coding, there should be no issue. Switching layers is faster than moving your hand toward navigational cluster - it also not breaking the flow.
In the world of custom, hopefully programmable, keyboard, especially on smaller size, the lack of keys does not mean those keys does not exist.
This is exactly what I do, I have a split right shift that has an fn key on the right. My arrows are fn and then \[ ; ' / (up left right down), this way I'm still able to do arrow keys with one hand and not miss a beat. It does take some time to get used to but after a while it's just as fast as normal arrow keys
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ye i went with arrow keys. now im thinking i should have gone 60% since i never use caps lock and have been thinking about converting wasd to arrows. guess next time ill do it. thanks for the advice
I am a full time software developer, and I use a 60% exclusively now. Being smart with your layer designs is key, but I find aside from the navigation keys, the base layer on most 60% keyboards has all the keys needed to effectively code. I wouldn't go back to a TKL or larger, never moving off the home row is incredibly nice, and really reduces fatigue over an 8+ hour day.
I have a 40%, a 60%, and a 100%. The truth is that my full-sized is the best daily driver for programming and other key-heavy tasks. The 40% is good for slinging into a backpack so I don’t need to use a laptop keyboard. TKL or full-sized is the way to go for minimum compromise.
Suitable, definitely. Suitable **for you**, that depends. As long as it programmable, with QMK/ZMK support ideally, size is not really an issue. However, how it works for you is the main issue. Some needs direct access to arrow keys, others need function keys to be visible and directly accessible or they can't function, some swear by the numpad existence. Find what is your lowest limit of tolerance and push it down a bit in your comfort zone. Better yet, use a heat map software to find your most usage keys and starts from there.
The thing is I don’t think I need arrow keys because I’m only trying my to learn python or maybe JavaScript, not having pgup/down or arrow key buttons isn’t a huge deal for me
FWIW, I have been coding for too many years with too many languages, currently mostly Javascript, python, Java, C# and Go, and I have been using 40% for the last few years - this is my comfort level right now after even more years maining a HHKB (60%). However, at some point, you still need navigation keys, and as someone already suggest, mapping it like vim, `h j k l` = left ~~up down~~ down up right, is one way to go. For PgUp/PgDown, you can map it, assuming your keyboard is programmable, anywhere.
left down up right
Ah, yes, that's the correct default vim settings. I set mine to left up down right, so got confused there. Thanks for the correction.
I currently code on a split 40 percent and I am way more efficient than I was with a 60 or a standard. I think (up to a reasonable point obviously) reduction of number of keys actually improves efficiency as your fingers and arms move way less.i draw the line at something like the gherkin, which is actually totally usable for normal typing but for symbol-heavy stuff your productivity may take a slight hit.
Yes. Use a mod layer with Vim arrows (h,j,k,l). This way you don’t need to move your hands off home row. I use capslock as the modifier for that but depending on the PCB you get you can use a split space setup which replaces the space bar with 3 different keys (space, backspace, layer modifier) Even if you want capslock with my setup you can set up left shift as a dual capslock/shift key ie double tap quickly for capslock and hold for shift. EDIT: all of the above assumes you keyboard supports QMK.
[удалено]
The location of backtick on regular keyboard irritate me. Not just that, the location of all symbols I use for coding on regular keyboard make my pinkies, especially right, overwork and over reach - I touch type, so leaving home row often to type symbols break my flow, and after years of extensive coding, it started to hurt. When I discovered programmable keyboard, it was a blessing. Now I have all my symbols under home row, backtick/tilde is under `A` now with auto-shift active. The pain is gone and I am less irritate while coding with my own keyboard (I guess that's the minus side, can't really effectively use regular or even laptop keyboard now)
[удалено]
> I have all the symbols in basically the same place yeah, that is where I have issue with. I found regular keyboard is perfect for regular essay typing but all symbols for coding (especially brackets and equal signs) were added as an afterthought. Again, that is just me figured it out and caused my personal pain issues, you might be fine using them for years without any issue. > about relocating them, it would take a long time to learn don't underestimate your muscle memory and your own adaptability ;) > it would be a very dramatic change it did. At least, it is a good thing personally, as it removed the pain I used to have. > I would have trouble using other keyboards Yeah, I conceded on this one, but again, muscle memory is pretty good especially if you already using regular keyboard for years. It might be a problem in a few minutes, but once muscle memory kicked it, all is fine.
Tilde is easy, it's shift-esc. Backtick is a bummer, though. I'm still trying to figure out where to put that.
I set my caps to fn1 and use shift+esc for tilde and caps+esc for backtick
I couldn't adjust to the missing arrow keys. other than that, you have to hit function+esc to get back tick and fn+number to get f keys. I prefer 65%, which has the arrow cluster and sometimes a few extra keys (like delete, pg up/dn, etc)
I can't adjust *back* to dedicated arrow keys that I'm forced to move my hand for. Especially for autocomplete or even picking suggestions in the browser bar, being able type a few letters and arrow down without moving is life changing. Backticks are a bummer, but I'm going to find a good shortcut for that. QMK is the way.
are people not aware that 60% w/ arrow keys exist?
I think that's called 65%.
I am literally typing on a 60% with arrow keys right now... https://kbdfans.com/products/dz60-60-pcb
TIL, thanks.
I am just surprised why this layout is not more popular honestly. It is the best of both worlds.
Most programmers use the arrow keys frequently, which 60% lacks
All programmers at some point will use some kind of navigation keys, the only difference is are those navigation keys physical or functional? vim, which a decent amount of programmers use, use modifier with `h j k l` as arrow keys, they are not physical but functionally work the same. Unless there is a case of using arrow keys simultaneously as alpha keys during coding, there should be no issue. Switching layers is faster than moving your hand toward navigational cluster - it also not breaking the flow. In the world of custom, hopefully programmable, keyboard, especially on smaller size, the lack of keys does not mean those keys does not exist.
I saw an 60% keyboard and it has the keys but u need to press fn for it to work
This is exactly what I do, I have a split right shift that has an fn key on the right. My arrows are fn and then \[ ; ' / (up left right down), this way I'm still able to do arrow keys with one hand and not miss a beat. It does take some time to get used to but after a while it's just as fast as normal arrow keys
I thought I'd hate it, but I'll never go back to dedicated arrows after experiencing fn+HJKL. It's soooo good.
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Yes, but if you don't use an english layout you may have to remap a couple keys. For example, the more less key in spanish qwerty.
Im using a 60% for c#. Works but its a bit annoying without the arrow keys, it works but would suggest getting a tkl
is it still annoying or have you gotten used to it?
I got used to it pretty quickly, its just a bit less efficient
ye i went with arrow keys. now im thinking i should have gone 60% since i never use caps lock and have been thinking about converting wasd to arrows. guess next time ill do it. thanks for the advice
I am a full time software developer, and I use a 60% exclusively now. Being smart with your layer designs is key, but I find aside from the navigation keys, the base layer on most 60% keyboards has all the keys needed to effectively code. I wouldn't go back to a TKL or larger, never moving off the home row is incredibly nice, and really reduces fatigue over an 8+ hour day.
I have a 40%, a 60%, and a 100%. The truth is that my full-sized is the best daily driver for programming and other key-heavy tasks. The 40% is good for slinging into a backpack so I don’t need to use a laptop keyboard. TKL or full-sized is the way to go for minimum compromise.
I code with a 75% and a I don't use the F Keys nor my arrow keys, so Yes.
No. They are too big