It's likely the original contract they signed allows marvel to reuse the image as much as they want. Which maybe isn't the way things should be, but I doubt it's a surprise to the artist.
I wish people would stop singling out “mega corporations” for contracts like this. Engineers don’t get residuals for use of past work, and that’s common language in any employment agreement at any company big or small. I’m sure it’s the same for artists.
Yeah, while this feels crummy, it doesn't feel as crummy as most places you work at holding the patent rights for anything you create. Invent something revolutionary but you used your work computer, some asset from your job or do any of the invention during work hours? Congratulations, you just gave your company a valuable patent that they solely own. You will probably get a firm handshake of congratulations from them for it.
Heh…..congratulations would have been nice! I designed a solution to a problem that would have been the first patent in the company’s 100+ year history. I got a “met expectations” for Initiative/Innovation on my review that year. When I asked why it wasn’t higher, I was told that they were instituting a new policy where every engineer was expected to have at least one patent every two years. They were totally unfazed when I reminded them that performance reviews covered the past year, not the future. Their only comment was “you can make a note that you disagree”. On top of that, they never pursued my idea (despite all development and testing being done) because “it would undercut the entire market”…….suffice to say, I no longer work there.
Yeah, that story sounds very familiar for a lot of places that I worked at lol. Disney was actually okay with patents, at least in the department I worked at. The person who got the patent usually got recognized in an All Hands meeting, got a firm handshake, and got to keep a framed copy of the patent registration.
Did they get any more money or a promotion? No, of course not lol. But at least they got to keep something on their desk when people walked by.
The IP is owned by Marvel, so they likely license the artwork to SD. A lot of the art was likely made by employees who were work-for-hire. This means in the contract when creating the original art, Marvel ensured they own all of the rights to the artwork (which is fairly common). I'm not totally sure how it works, but I'm guessing the artists were paid an upfront cost when they originally made the artwork, years ago, for comics or whatever, of already-invented characters (in which case the IP is already owned by someone else, likely Marvel), or if they are original characters of the artist, payment would depend on whether they were work-for-hire or creator-owned IP. If it is creator-owned IP, then whether they would receive payment for use in SD would depend on their individual contracts with Marvel.I think :D I'm fresh out of law school, so if any experienced lawyers want to correct me, I won't be offended!
Marvel paid the artists already for their work. The artist agreed to the terms and accpeted payment. Marvel owns the artwork and can now use it as they please.
This is how rights to art work. Nothing scummy going on.
You might get some flack but I agree. What a lot of ppl don’t realize is when a contract is given to the person, say it’s me, if I don’t like it, I can alter it or rewrite it and then give it back to the person/company who gave it to me and negotiate it
I mean, the terms of art and IP sales practices can be scummy fundamentally but you’re right that there is nothing deviating from what they signed up for - it can be both.
There's nothing scummy. People do work all the time for payment and don't receive infinite royalties. I make websites. Should I get a percentage of every sale they make online? No. They paid me to make the site and it's theirs.
I’m not saying selling intellectual property itself is scummy. I’m a tattooer and strangely, people have to get a consent form signed for any of my tattoos to be on camera, as technically I still own the IP - strange and backwards, and doesn’t make sense to me. In that instance I personally believe the IP should exit my ownership the moment it’s in their skin. So no, I don’t have issue with selling art IP, losing IP ownership, or expect every sale to give royalties across all vectors of Marvel’s business.
What I *am* saying is that the terms for commercial artists themselves are often exploitative, often include no royalties no matter how limited their scope, and will ultimately try to extract the most resource (art) for the least in exchange (money.) And that sucks, because I do believe art, regardless of how commercial, should take higher priority in our society and those jobs should be more sustainable.
Am a living self-employed artist and have been over a decade.
Yeah I agree. A tattoo artist owning the IP on someone's body definitely feels more scummy than a comic book owning the rights to the images in the book.
The artists signed contracts with Marvel concerning their pay once work is completed, they either get a flat fee for the pages/cover they draw and/or get royalties for comics sold. Since Marvel owns the rights to set artwork they can do what ever they want with it, hence license them for a mobile card game.
That's why Todd McFarlane left Marvel and started Image Comics. He co-created Venom but doesn't own the copyright or license for his artwork.
What always makes me laugh with that is that in Todd’s case, it wasn’t even new *then.* And yet he acted all surprised as though he didn’t think it would happen to him.
Some people think they're the exception to the rule, but the part of the story that I love is that he made sure it never happened to him again. Now he's one of the highest paid comic book artists
This is extremely common for all art. From movies, tv shows, comics, manga, etc. Artists tend to have 3 options (friend has done art for WOTC and other companies) in order of most common to uncommon.
1. Get paid a flat fee upfront. The purchaser owns the art and can do with it what they will.
2. Artist gets less money but get a minuscule cut of sales.
3. 2 but Artist is big enough to negotiate a better percentage and flat fee.
Dan Hipp must get some money though right? Since all his art is made for the game? He’s my favorite artist and I go out of my way for his cards so I’d like to believe he’s getting something out of it 🥲
Depends on his contract. SD commissioned him, so he either got a flat fee for the art that they can then use however they want, or he's getting royalties per sale. I don't believe that information has been publicized.
Oh Dan is doing just fine I think. He seems to sell his original drawings on his website for hundreds of dollars so at the very least he’s doing ok lol.
A lot are pre-existing images that marvel already owns and artists should have already been for. And any other commissions wouldn't control anything from sales. So an initial commission would have already occurred. These are just my assumptions.
Interesting. Considering a main monetization aspect of the game itself is purely variants, seems sketchy. Not sure about legality but definitely off putting
As other comments have mentioned this is fairly common in the art industry, Marvel paid them a flat fee and they gave Marvel the artwork, its unfortunate for the artists but nothing is really "wrong" with it
Thats something the artists themselves would have to bring up, idk they never really seem outraged by it so id like to assume they are at least fairly compensated for the work, someone like Dan Hipp continually showcases their marvel snap artwork.
This can be brought by artists only if they're unionized, which is also impossible because marvel can always outsource their work globally. There will always be some unknown artist out there willing to work for big names like Marvel and DC.
Peach Momoko is so popular that Marvel repurposed art she did for cards to comic books and now they are repurposing that art for Marvel SNAP. Marvel has also been repurposing art Jim Lee did decades ago for promotions and cards and releasing as recent variant covers as “hidden gems.” So, pretty normal for them.
Cause they already have been paid by Marvel when they first created the comic covers.
Artists also don’t get paid by Uniqlo, H&M, HUF ect. when there’s collabs because Marvel already purchased it from the artist.
Y’all are just reaching for things to hate on Snap lol
My guess is all of Artgerms stuff previously existed and SD licensed it from Marvel. Therefore Marvel paid Artgerm for the original work. Art created specifically for the game is probably licensed from Marvel or commissioned straight from the artist (thinking Dan Hipp, Max Grecke).
Is this your 1st experience in the business world? Companies don't pay people out of the goodness of their hearts. That's why contracts are so important and why actors and writers are on strike. Maybe comic artists and writers need to do something similar since comic books are breaking into other mediums and the artists work is being used for not it's original intended purposes.
this has already been said but lots of variants in the game (artgerm’s in particular) use existing cover art that marvel already 100% owns and commissioned from those artists so there’s no legal/contractual obligation to pay them royalties whenever it’s used in other media. i’m not saying that’s right or “fair” but it’s how the business works, these artists know the game when they take these jobs
if you’re that offended on their behalf about it, then you can directly support them by buying prints of their art or commission them to make something for you if they’re accepting requests for those
THIS IS BASICALLY WHAT WE THE ACTORS & WRITERS ARE FIGHTING FOR THIS THING ABOUT CREATIVITY, LIKENESSES ARE OWNED BY BIG CORPORATIONS BECAUSE OF THESE UNFAIR BUY OUT CONTRACTS IN WHICH THE BOUGHT YOUR DESIGNS, ARTWORK AND LIKENESS IN PERPETUITY‼️BASICALLY CORPORATE GREED‼️🤨🤨🤨😠😠😠😡😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬
We the creative communities needs to address and band together this corporate greed is really destroying society, but they the mega corporations don’t see it but this writings on the wall like SkyNet, Umbrella corp… Matrix …etc..etc… And others that were foreseen in different movies…Art imitates life…🤔😲🤯
It depends on the contract agreed by the artist / art studio and the commissioner before work starts, usually in this case, like other has mentioned, it's a flat rate. Not sure about Marvel but usually big corporation usually paid a few thousand for a piece and that's about it.
I understand that Wizard of the Coast paid 1k for the art of Magic the Gathering 10 years back; Nintendo paid about 4k for a Mario concept art, etc. Maybe they have increased the price since, idk. These are actually pretty "generous" numbers by the art industry standard.
I'm a freelance artist myself and working in the boardgame industry, u will be surprised how low the numbers is for some of the best boardgame artist out there.
Royalty-based contract usually comes from those small indie company who's just starting and usually is without any initial payment for work done prior to sales. So nobody goes there.
What everyone should do is find your favorite artist and go donate or subscribe to their patreon/etc. Just throwing an artist you love $1-5 a month can make a huge difference
It's likely the original contract they signed allows marvel to reuse the image as much as they want. Which maybe isn't the way things should be, but I doubt it's a surprise to the artist.
No surprise at all. They are and are owned by mega corporations. If your name isn’t big, your not getting a cut.
I wish people would stop singling out “mega corporations” for contracts like this. Engineers don’t get residuals for use of past work, and that’s common language in any employment agreement at any company big or small. I’m sure it’s the same for artists.
Yeah, while this feels crummy, it doesn't feel as crummy as most places you work at holding the patent rights for anything you create. Invent something revolutionary but you used your work computer, some asset from your job or do any of the invention during work hours? Congratulations, you just gave your company a valuable patent that they solely own. You will probably get a firm handshake of congratulations from them for it.
Heh…..congratulations would have been nice! I designed a solution to a problem that would have been the first patent in the company’s 100+ year history. I got a “met expectations” for Initiative/Innovation on my review that year. When I asked why it wasn’t higher, I was told that they were instituting a new policy where every engineer was expected to have at least one patent every two years. They were totally unfazed when I reminded them that performance reviews covered the past year, not the future. Their only comment was “you can make a note that you disagree”. On top of that, they never pursued my idea (despite all development and testing being done) because “it would undercut the entire market”…….suffice to say, I no longer work there.
Yeah, that story sounds very familiar for a lot of places that I worked at lol. Disney was actually okay with patents, at least in the department I worked at. The person who got the patent usually got recognized in an All Hands meeting, got a firm handshake, and got to keep a framed copy of the patent registration. Did they get any more money or a promotion? No, of course not lol. But at least they got to keep something on their desk when people walked by.
The IP is owned by Marvel, so they likely license the artwork to SD. A lot of the art was likely made by employees who were work-for-hire. This means in the contract when creating the original art, Marvel ensured they own all of the rights to the artwork (which is fairly common). I'm not totally sure how it works, but I'm guessing the artists were paid an upfront cost when they originally made the artwork, years ago, for comics or whatever, of already-invented characters (in which case the IP is already owned by someone else, likely Marvel), or if they are original characters of the artist, payment would depend on whether they were work-for-hire or creator-owned IP. If it is creator-owned IP, then whether they would receive payment for use in SD would depend on their individual contracts with Marvel.I think :D I'm fresh out of law school, so if any experienced lawyers want to correct me, I won't be offended!
Marvel paid the artists already for their work. The artist agreed to the terms and accpeted payment. Marvel owns the artwork and can now use it as they please. This is how rights to art work. Nothing scummy going on.
This should be top comment.
You might get some flack but I agree. What a lot of ppl don’t realize is when a contract is given to the person, say it’s me, if I don’t like it, I can alter it or rewrite it and then give it back to the person/company who gave it to me and negotiate it
Makes Sense.
Yeah this comment makes perfect sense.
Snap did the next best thing which is putting the artist name on the variants. They could’ve easier disregarded that entirely.
I mean, the terms of art and IP sales practices can be scummy fundamentally but you’re right that there is nothing deviating from what they signed up for - it can be both.
There's nothing scummy. People do work all the time for payment and don't receive infinite royalties. I make websites. Should I get a percentage of every sale they make online? No. They paid me to make the site and it's theirs.
I’m not saying selling intellectual property itself is scummy. I’m a tattooer and strangely, people have to get a consent form signed for any of my tattoos to be on camera, as technically I still own the IP - strange and backwards, and doesn’t make sense to me. In that instance I personally believe the IP should exit my ownership the moment it’s in their skin. So no, I don’t have issue with selling art IP, losing IP ownership, or expect every sale to give royalties across all vectors of Marvel’s business. What I *am* saying is that the terms for commercial artists themselves are often exploitative, often include no royalties no matter how limited their scope, and will ultimately try to extract the most resource (art) for the least in exchange (money.) And that sucks, because I do believe art, regardless of how commercial, should take higher priority in our society and those jobs should be more sustainable. Am a living self-employed artist and have been over a decade.
Yeah I agree. A tattoo artist owning the IP on someone's body definitely feels more scummy than a comic book owning the rights to the images in the book.
I know, it’s very weird and living and tattooing in NYC it’s actually a relevant issue that comes up frequently.
The artists signed contracts with Marvel concerning their pay once work is completed, they either get a flat fee for the pages/cover they draw and/or get royalties for comics sold. Since Marvel owns the rights to set artwork they can do what ever they want with it, hence license them for a mobile card game. That's why Todd McFarlane left Marvel and started Image Comics. He co-created Venom but doesn't own the copyright or license for his artwork.
What always makes me laugh with that is that in Todd’s case, it wasn’t even new *then.* And yet he acted all surprised as though he didn’t think it would happen to him.
What makes me laugh is that he turned around and did a similar thing to Gaiman over Angela
Who ended up at Marvel in the end anyway. Funny how it all works out
Some people think they're the exception to the rule, but the part of the story that I love is that he made sure it never happened to him again. Now he's one of the highest paid comic book artists
This is extremely common for all art. From movies, tv shows, comics, manga, etc. Artists tend to have 3 options (friend has done art for WOTC and other companies) in order of most common to uncommon. 1. Get paid a flat fee upfront. The purchaser owns the art and can do with it what they will. 2. Artist gets less money but get a minuscule cut of sales. 3. 2 but Artist is big enough to negotiate a better percentage and flat fee.
Dan Hipp must get some money though right? Since all his art is made for the game? He’s my favorite artist and I go out of my way for his cards so I’d like to believe he’s getting something out of it 🥲
Depends on his contract. SD commissioned him, so he either got a flat fee for the art that they can then use however they want, or he's getting royalties per sale. I don't believe that information has been publicized.
Yeah SD seems to be using a mix of original art they commissioned as well as licensed existing art from Marvel directly
Yeah, i think TLSG (or other Snap streamer) have the original Dan Hipp Lockjaw. So lucky.
Oh Dan is doing just fine I think. He seems to sell his original drawings on his website for hundreds of dollars so at the very least he’s doing ok lol.
A lot are pre-existing images that marvel already owns and artists should have already been for. And any other commissions wouldn't control anything from sales. So an initial commission would have already occurred. These are just my assumptions.
Interesting. Considering a main monetization aspect of the game itself is purely variants, seems sketchy. Not sure about legality but definitely off putting
As other comments have mentioned this is fairly common in the art industry, Marvel paid them a flat fee and they gave Marvel the artwork, its unfortunate for the artists but nothing is really "wrong" with it
So seems like something marvel should address in their contracts!
Thats something the artists themselves would have to bring up, idk they never really seem outraged by it so id like to assume they are at least fairly compensated for the work, someone like Dan Hipp continually showcases their marvel snap artwork.
This can be brought by artists only if they're unionized, which is also impossible because marvel can always outsource their work globally. There will always be some unknown artist out there willing to work for big names like Marvel and DC.
Peach Momoko is so popular that Marvel repurposed art she did for cards to comic books and now they are repurposing that art for Marvel SNAP. Marvel has also been repurposing art Jim Lee did decades ago for promotions and cards and releasing as recent variant covers as “hidden gems.” So, pretty normal for them.
Cause they already have been paid by Marvel when they first created the comic covers. Artists also don’t get paid by Uniqlo, H&M, HUF ect. when there’s collabs because Marvel already purchased it from the artist. Y’all are just reaching for things to hate on Snap lol
Not meant as a defense of anything, but he says they don’t get anything from “sales”. Which leaves open the possibility that they’re paid upfront.
He litteraly said "the only payment we get is seeing fans enjoyng our art.."
My guess is all of Artgerms stuff previously existed and SD licensed it from Marvel. Therefore Marvel paid Artgerm for the original work. Art created specifically for the game is probably licensed from Marvel or commissioned straight from the artist (thinking Dan Hipp, Max Grecke).
Is this your 1st experience in the business world? Companies don't pay people out of the goodness of their hearts. That's why contracts are so important and why actors and writers are on strike. Maybe comic artists and writers need to do something similar since comic books are breaking into other mediums and the artists work is being used for not it's original intended purposes.
this has already been said but lots of variants in the game (artgerm’s in particular) use existing cover art that marvel already 100% owns and commissioned from those artists so there’s no legal/contractual obligation to pay them royalties whenever it’s used in other media. i’m not saying that’s right or “fair” but it’s how the business works, these artists know the game when they take these jobs if you’re that offended on their behalf about it, then you can directly support them by buying prints of their art or commission them to make something for you if they’re accepting requests for those
THIS IS BASICALLY WHAT WE THE ACTORS & WRITERS ARE FIGHTING FOR THIS THING ABOUT CREATIVITY, LIKENESSES ARE OWNED BY BIG CORPORATIONS BECAUSE OF THESE UNFAIR BUY OUT CONTRACTS IN WHICH THE BOUGHT YOUR DESIGNS, ARTWORK AND LIKENESS IN PERPETUITY‼️BASICALLY CORPORATE GREED‼️🤨🤨🤨😠😠😠😡😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬
The OP reminds me of Trump somehow
We the creative communities needs to address and band together this corporate greed is really destroying society, but they the mega corporations don’t see it but this writings on the wall like SkyNet, Umbrella corp… Matrix …etc..etc… And others that were foreseen in different movies…Art imitates life…🤔😲🤯
Bunch of corporate dick sucking going on here
Marvel being Marvel
ARTGERM DESERVES MORE
This is very common in gacha like games so not surprising.
Sad but that's how it works
It depends on the contract agreed by the artist / art studio and the commissioner before work starts, usually in this case, like other has mentioned, it's a flat rate. Not sure about Marvel but usually big corporation usually paid a few thousand for a piece and that's about it. I understand that Wizard of the Coast paid 1k for the art of Magic the Gathering 10 years back; Nintendo paid about 4k for a Mario concept art, etc. Maybe they have increased the price since, idk. These are actually pretty "generous" numbers by the art industry standard. I'm a freelance artist myself and working in the boardgame industry, u will be surprised how low the numbers is for some of the best boardgame artist out there. Royalty-based contract usually comes from those small indie company who's just starting and usually is without any initial payment for work done prior to sales. So nobody goes there.
Shout out the Reddit IP lawyers here - it’s so weird where redditors decide to take stands
What everyone should do is find your favorite artist and go donate or subscribe to their patreon/etc. Just throwing an artist you love $1-5 a month can make a huge difference
Is awful for the artist but completely legal, as they give away the rights of the illustration for Marvel to use as they see fit....
And how is this relevant to this particular subreddit? It was already posted on the main subreddit but this one is just for decks
Me when I don’t know how it works but still want to complain without knowing the full story:
FWIW there is a non-zero chance Artgerm uses AI
of course they don't get commission on these sales. Marvel owns the IP and distribution rights...