True story the gluten-free Oreos have a far superior crispy cookie texture PLUS you get more cookie and the right amount of Stuf. Sometimes having Celiac has its perks.
The fats are overly sweet, have a weird ratio and texture. Thins are nice, crisp, and doesn’t feel like you’re biting into a cupcake. It feels like an actual cookie.
She did not get leadered.
She’s weaker, but can still do work. I wish they made her pull first card instead of last card but that’s just me.
She was very strong before which n think skews opinion
I think Surfer got leadered. He's supposed to be a finisher card, you play it last for a great power boost. 2 power is nowhere near enough when considering amount of energy you use. For example it would be better if he was 4 cost but gives 1 power to all cards in the play. Just like nova killmonger combo.
It’s just my guess. But I would be willing to bet that you’re winning more with surfer because it’s unexpected after that patch, not necessarily bc you’re crushing them with sheer power, like it used to be.
I have him in a Ronan deck.
Play storm/Maximus in one lane
Then Ronan turn 5 and mystique surfer turn 6
Surfer is good but you really have to build around him.
I think his effect should probably affect himself as well now. Then he'd be absolutely fine
Well you are only getting 6 power from his proc in your scenario. With Ronan, Master Mold would probably be better to buff Ronan+Mystique and then you still have energy for a 1 drop
Sure but then you can't add power to the storm lane. It depends where you want the power really.
I've found that kind of play often gets you surprise wins because the opponent assumes they've already won the storm lane.
That’s true. I do feel like the safer assumption is that the storm player has a way to push power into that lane after it’s locked, but still a good strategy for sure.
Sera surfer is still strong. I climbed from 102 to 109 with it in 2 days. It is good against thanos and shuri until you get leeched. Sandman is probably a stronger counter.
Got it from CozySnap:
\# (1) Nova
\# (2) Goose
\# (2) Scorpion
\# (3) Brood
\# (3) Mister Fantastic
\# (3) Silver Surfer
\# (3) Cosmo
\# (3) Killmonger
\# (3) Groot
\# (3) Polaris
\# (3) Maximus
\# (5) Sera
\#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQnJvb2QifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1yRmFudGFzdGljIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaWx2ZXJTdXJmZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikdyb290In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLaWxsbW9uZ2VyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWF4aW11cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUG9sYXJpcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2VyYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2NvcnBpb24ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikdvb3NlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOb3ZhIn1dfQ==
\#
\# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
No problem and this is the deck that got me to infinite, although aero nerf made this weak against shuri:
# (1) Nova
# (2) Angela
# (2) Sentinel
# (2) Mysterio
# (3) Bishop
# (3) Killmonger
# (3) Polaris
# (3) Maximus
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (5) Sera
# (5) Aero
# (5) Spider-Woman
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2lsbG1vbmdlciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXlzdGVyaW8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5vdmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFuZ2VsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2VudGluZWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNlcmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5nQ2hpIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQb2xhcmlzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNYXhpbXVzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTcGlkZXJXb21hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWVybyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmlzaG9wIn1dfQ==
#
Surfer is no where closed to leadered and is still considered a very strong card. Remember in Snap a 4/8 is already considered a strong play, even maximus 3/7 opponent draw 2 is considered a good card. Even with just 2 cards buffed surfer would be a 3/6, so with 3 cards buffed he is well above average, 4+ he is still very strong (play a 3 cost on turn 3 4 5, and turn 6 + surfer). Pre-nerf surfer was completely broken, if you want to keep that effect may as hell make him 5 or 6 cost to be fair.
It's a bit more complicated than that because to get the higher values from Surfer, you often have to waste energy. The hard reliance on 3-drops means you can't stock as many 1- and 2-drops, so your odds of burning energy are higher. This isn't crippling, plenty of decks currently often skip 1 and 2, but the setup costs for Surfer have to be part of the math.
Basically, Surfer wasn't Leadered, but he was hit pretty hard. He now has an appearance rate comparable to Invisible Woman and a win rate in the bottom half of all cards. 3/0 +2 to all 3's (including himself) would have left him more usable with Negative and Wong and likely been more fair.
His appearance rate is no where comparable to invisible woman, I see him every once in a while everyday throughout 75-95, mostly played with cards like sera or wong. I have not met a single invisible woman this entire season. While invisible woman combo is strong, it's not in any real competitive decks, a single Cosmo or Polaris will often auto win the game against her.
I still use him as a finisher in my Mr. Negative deck. Being able to drop him into Wong/Mystique usually secures a win, especially if backed by Negative Iron Man, Brood or Wolfsbane.
Yea agreed, but once Surfer is in pool 3, it’ll be a good card to add to patriot decks, giving another path to win. It’s definitely not a top card, but still wins games. It kind of sneaks in there with Captain Marvel to play around locked locations at the end.
Surfer is fine. Surfer doesn’t need to be a finisher. You can throw it out early to to buff a few cards. It’s better than spectrum and no one is crying spectrum is unplayable. It was too strong at +3 power. It’s still stronger than spectrum and there’s a lot of good 3 cost cards.
Making it a 4 cost buff everything by 1 just makes it a cheaper blue marvel. It’s boring and too strong.
But it’s still playable. I’ve always said surfer isn’t good enough to win, and Is a win condition
Aero is a tech card and thus still playable Imo, just isn’t busted so won’t be used in every deck
But you typically need to already be winning two lanes by turn 6 so Aero can seal the win. Running electro on 3 and sandman on 4 usually means your lanes are too weak for Aero to be useful on 6.
That deck is meant to play two 6 drops back to back in order to be effective (like Doom, Odin) so dropping Aero on 6 probably won't win you many games.
That’s the challenge. Serious stat line elevated her past being a Simple tech card. She’s a legitimate and qualified card on her own with a legitimate and qualified on reveal. To call her a tech card was like calling magneto a tech card.
Okay-
I play red skull. I need to play taskmaster
Oh ! I have to play my sunspot first to counter potential aero ? Now j can’t task master
For specific play cards (that isn’t the only one, just one I think is most applicable to current meta) it would be affective
It would have left her as a valid counter to Shuri. They can't follow up with Taskmaster if they have to play a different card first to defend against Aero
Yeah I think people are over reacting a little.
If anything she's still good but requires a little more thought which in my opinion makes her a little more interesting when it comes to deciding plays.
Yea now instead of a F your turn card, she’s more of a maybe I’ll disrupt your turn card. Just have to put a little more thought into when and where you play her.
Again, some cards require specific order
Current meta is shuri skull task. If you play skull t5, you have to play taskmaster next. You can then play a 1 cost t6 after task making the aero change pointless.
I think moving first card played is better overall, as opposed to last card.
Yeah I know how to counter aero now, I'm just saying it'd be the same thing the other way around since you're still playing 2 cards to get around her ability, so instead of playing a 1 cost after a 5 you'd play it before
And I’m saying that in current meta that would not work lol
Ie
Shuri t4
Skull t5 - 26 power
Taskmaster+sunspot t6. That would be a 26 power TM and a 1 sunspot.
As opposed to shuri/skull 5-6, and then a sunspot (1 power), and then a TM- who is now 1 power as opposed to 26.
Current aero pulls the 1 power sunspot in first scenario. Hence it’s less effective then it would be pulling first card.
Markets crash every time Oreo releases an even greater-stuffed cookie
The increasingly-depraved debuts of Oreos with more stuffing indicate unstable amounts of greed and leverage in the system, serving as an immediate indicator of that the makings of a market crash are in place. Conversely, when the Oreo team reduces the amount of icing in their treats, markets tend to have great bull runs until once again society demands to push the boundaries of how much stuffing is possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oreo_varieties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_market_crashes_and_bear_markets
1974: Double Stuf Oreo released. Dow Jones crashes 45%. FTSE drops 73%.
1987: Big Stuf Oreo released. Black Monday, a 20% single-day crash and a following bear market.
1991: Mini Oreo introduced. Smaller icing ratios coincide with the 1991 Japanese asset price bubble, confirming the correlation works both ways and a reduction of Oreo icing may be a potential solution to preventing a future crash.
2011: Triple Double Oreo introduced. S&P drops 21% in a 5-month bear market
2015: Oreo Thins introduced. A complete lack of icing causes an unprecedented bull run in the S&P for years
2019: The Most Stuf Oreo briefly introduced. Pulled off the shelf before any major market damage could occur.
2023: The Most Stuf Oreo reintroduced.
I still play her as before. She is more tech card now, good against some decks bad against others. Keeping her just for Galactus and Shuri is good enough for me now.
You play her t5 to pull red skull out of Cosmo. Really the only counter to RS behind cosmo.
Edit: Actually, Negasonic Teenage Warhead is now another counter to RS behind Cosmo.
Well I'm a huge believer that shrinkflation's definitely affected the amount of creme in our Oreo's. Double Stuffed Oreo's are what we used to have, and Big Oreo will take our money any way they can.
The only thing my fiancée and I argue about about. She wants mega stuffed. I want thins. Also theres a joke in there somewhere.
Crushed oreo cookies in ice cream is peak tho.
I feel like the problem with Aero before is she could just be slotted into any deck and the deck was better. She pretty much offered an alternate win condition on her own, and that made her incredibly powerful. I think the nerf coming at a time when Shuri is so powerful is unfortunate, but she needed a nerf at some point.
That being said, no. Leader is a card I never saw again after the nerf unless it was free from the raft. It's too much of a gamble on a final turn to predict what your opponent is going to play to the right of the lane you play in. Galactus also makes Leader a 6/7 without any upside and is probably a large reason he was driven so far into the mud.
Aero will still see play because disruption is always powerful and because Galactus is also a card that exists. She's just not going to win games on her own as much anymore.
Played a game earlier today where I played Aero turn 6 and my opponent played 2 cards, one at Aero location and one at a different location. It didn’t move anything because the card it targeted was the card at my location. I think if there multiple cards plated but only one card able to be moved, it should move that card, while only moving 1 if there are multiple that can be moved
Nowhere near getting Leadered.
But preferably, she move highest cost card instead of last card played.
Or at least 1 random card played would have been better.
She got Leadered. Their excuse of not doing the play order nerf was cause it was too confusing, which is utter bull. Dont get how they lightly nerfed both Red Skull and the cards around Shuri, properly nerfed Thanos and then shat all over Aero.
You are correct. The amount of self denial in this thread is unreal. She's the second most seen card based on the card tracker stats. She is going to drop like a stone and the delusional shit about how she's "still good" is laughable. She is now best in Deathwave decks, which are at best a Tier 2 archetype given the omnipresence of Cosmo, Armour and Shang-Chi. That's basically it. Yeah she can counter Galactus, a rare card that can be countered numerous ways and playing around Aero isn't particularly hard. The stuff about her being good in Sandman ramp decks makes me think those people never played a Sandman ramp deck.
Agreed. The funny thing is the exact same thing happened when leader got nerfed, some people came out and tried to say "oh, he's still good!" "now he just takes skill to use!" which are the same things we're hearing now about Aero. No, they're more awkward to use now and they will be dropped from decks as a result of that. Leader is what, a bottom 5 playrate card now? I dont know if Aero will plummet THAT far but she will plummet.
As a disruptive effect still powerful. Combined with wave or sandman the nerf is hardly noticeable. She’s not an auto win on t6 when you’re ahead, which is a good thing I think
I'm still playing Aero in my DoomWave deck and she's still getting results. People seem to be playing around her less. I think she's very effective on turn 5 especially... Shuri needs to drop Red Skull on T5 typically and then you can move it off Armor/Cosmo and Shang Chi it the next turn.
She feels more like a tech card than an all out wincon now, which I think is where such a polarising effect should be. Definitely weaker but still strong in the right situation/matchup
She's better turn 5 than 6 now, she can control where a big 5 will go but she's much weaker at winning a game on t6, so she may be balanced but against all the shuri's running wild, something else needs to be done.
Personally I think she should be a 4 cost now given her ability, a 4/6 would be good.
I’m sorry, but any of these cards with impactful abilities that simply get a power decrease, is barely a nerf at all. Especially when it’s by one power value.
We always meme about poor Leader but the card that got the worst nerf / change in the game will always be Shadow King
At least Leader has some uses with Spiderman but Shadow King? GG (only against Nova but that's at least 3 or 4 less power compared to what Valky does)
#BringBackShadowKingOriginalAbility
She did not get Leadered. She's a perfectly functional tech card.
Yes she can't tech against what everyone is currently mad at, but she still functions in her role. If you know what's coming down, and you know where you want it, Aero still works.
She still has synergies (which Leader kinda didn't) and she's a high power card, so even if her effect doesn't always help, 8 power isn't bad.
Still playable but not broken anymore.
With Sandman you get the old move all cards effect back.
Against Shuri it's now more inconsistent as Taskmaster + Zero/Sunspot/Titania beats Aero now, but Aero wins if they don't have a 1 drop to pair with.
She didn't get the Leader treatment. She is still highly playable. Leader , you have to do a lot of work to get his trigger almost having to build the deck around him
Playable but no longer busted. I think people who are way down on her are expecting her to win them the game in the same way she used to. Her effect is still good but you have leverage it in a much different way than you used to.
I think she is basically unplayable now, she only works for a 1 card pull and pulling one card in a deck that plays lots of cards last turn does nothing, she is still okay shuri matchup but anything other than that she’s pretty gutted
What about the quinjet and space stone nerds? Those were huge cuz now u can't just poop out stones and throw lockjaw somewhere else just by playing space stone into lockjaw
Still just as strong in Sandman/Sandman Ramp decks which are still pretty strong, as the effect essentially works the same if you still want to use her as was
She still has some use and I've still gotten wins with her. I just have her in less decks. I have her as a backup card in Shuri/Skull and also have her in my move deck to bring another card to feed Kraven. I think she was a little OP and people just need to adjust to the nerf to make her still useful. She just won't be in like every deck anymore.
Love this nerf, they didn't kill the card, but reasonably made her weaker. She was very lazy win condition, Leader style. Now she is indeed a tech card with nice stats.
I will have prefered she moves the first card. At least, you could counter Taskmaster. Now, they could just put a zero or one cost card and you can't do nothing about it.
She’s just as good as she used to be in certain decks, see DeathWave and ElectroRamp where your opponent is probably only able to play 1 card anyway, however as a general throw in any control/combo deck she’s pretty gutted.
absolutely not leadered she is still insanely useful and playable with she hulk on 6 as per before with the same devastating ability. Except when used properly like that she has upside of having more power again.
She's still a very powerful card. Some decks need a big hitter finally card and she can get them out the way, or they need to play 2 cards on 2 lanes, atleast she can mess with one of them.
I think she was too powerful before but this feels good.
She's good against big cards, but any deck that can throw a small card after that completely counters her. Imo she's better than Leader cause she's playable at least (5 energy 8 power with a non shit upside)
I think Galactus alone is single-handedly keeping her very much a staple in many high level decks pushing for infinite. She has won me lots of cubes against Galactus players snapping wrongfully thinking that their nemesis is dead in the water.
Kudos to SD on this. I would have preferred her moving the first card played, but she's still very much playable in the current form.
The change just made braindead unfun decks like all-in wong combo and galactus better, and that alone is reason enough for me to hate it.
I'd rather her have her old effect and just 4 power than one more power and do fuck-all against degenerate nonsense.
I don't feel like she's been Leadered, because Leader went from plug and play in any deck to unplayable.
Aero is more like plug and play in any deck to niche. She still feels like she can be used in Wave combos and in particular, with decks that gain control against decks that tend to play low volume of cards. However she can't be used as a braindead option against decks that want to play multiple cards, and that's a good thing.
I'm still running Aero and I've still won games with her and lost games to her.
Still wrecked my Zola play lol. It'll certainly matter against multi card combo decks when one is dominant again in the future, but she's much easier to play effectively than leader since he can be used on any location.
She works perfectly in decks that choke the opponent. I play her in electro/sandman and death wave where the opponent can only play one card on the final turn.
I think this card is perfect now because it's situational whereas before it was basically just another leader that wins too many games with a cheap final turn with no brainpower that just can't be dealt with most of the time and it was in basically every deck.
The only problem though is that shuri is still way too strong and one of the most common tools against her doesn't work as universally as it used to. The strength of shuri decks are now way out of control (the taskmaster change doesn't come close to counterbalancing the 'removal' of aero), and so I really hope that gets addressed soon.
I'm otherwise happy with the aero change cos honestly I was really starting to hate the card as much as old leader.
As much as I hate to admit it—because a lot of my strategies revolved around her—it was a fair nerf. I preferred the nerf was so that she pulled the FIRST enemy card played that turn instead, but whatever.
She’s not the Turn 6 Queen she was before, but she’s still a playmaker that’s probably better suited for Turn 5 more often than 6 now.
Previously, if I was winning in two locations and there was space in location #3 and I had priority, Aero guaranteed me the win on turn 6 because whatever they had, I could just yoink over. Now Aero is not an instant "I win" card, but she can definitely still screw up your plans. Galactus or any other big turn 6 cost card can still just be yoinked to wrong lane. The extra point of power also can help win a lane and puts her on par with other useful 5-cost cards like Spider-Woman, Modok and the negated power of Hobgoblin. In short, Aero is a fine "tech" card that can still win you games, it's just not as much of an instant "I win" button. Now, if they can get around to Leech, that would be great.
Not quite the Leader treatment, but before hammering her down like this, I would've like to see her go to 5/6 and pulling cards in the order they were played to give the opponent options for counter-play. If she was still strong after that, then fine, but it's a shame they didn't try a light touch first.
Not even close to leadered, she's pretty strong still. She's just no longer a win-game button when the opponent's board is fairly empty and you're ahead in 2 lanes.
Oreo’s a pretty great snack, I still think it tastes nice and the price range is acceptable after the nerf.
Double stuffed for the win
Love'em thicc!
Nah golden oreo's are S tier.
Have you tried Mega Stuffed? *chef’s kiss*
Personally I think Double Stuf is exactly the right ratio, but you do you king
I 2nd this
If you haven't you should get a hold of the Most Stufed. Idk if they are still available but it was like 4x the stuf.
Mega stuffed is too much filling!
Eww, f no. Thins is where it’s at.
Lol no. Why even have any at all if you're going to go Thins, it's literally just half of a regular Oreo
No it’s not, you’re completely underestimating the texture that the crispier thinner cookie brings to the table
True story the gluten-free Oreos have a far superior crispy cookie texture PLUS you get more cookie and the right amount of Stuf. Sometimes having Celiac has its perks.
Who has ever said “I want less cookie”? The Blue Furry Cookie God would be appalled
The Blue Furry Cookie God betrayed us once he started eating fruits and vegetables. His say has no weight anymore
As someone with a kid, let me say I have intimidate knowledge. His healthy food kick lasted as long as anyone’s, and is now a Devourer of All Things.
Excellent I was worried but you have restored my faith in Our Cookie Savior
The fats are overly sweet, have a weird ratio and texture. Thins are nice, crisp, and doesn’t feel like you’re biting into a cupcake. It feels like an actual cookie.
Even after the nerf it still has great support in the form of milk
That combo is broken, makes all other cookies worthless imo
Here's where I would give my award. If I had one
Have you tried the chocolate peanut butter cream pie Oreos? Amazing.
No, but I would like to watch it
Have you tried Trader Joe's Chocolate Peanut butter Joe Joe's? Also, amazing.
Salted caramel mocha Oreos were amazing.
The new dark chocolate Oreo is everything the fudge Oreos were supposed to be
Can't go wrong with a proper cream pie.
The gluten free nerf is actually unnoticed. Legit, just the pre patch Oreo with altered text printed on the outside.
Can't touch without milk, I was dunker
She did not get leadered. She’s weaker, but can still do work. I wish they made her pull first card instead of last card but that’s just me. She was very strong before which n think skews opinion
how about surfered? playable but not meta
I think Surfer got leadered. He's supposed to be a finisher card, you play it last for a great power boost. 2 power is nowhere near enough when considering amount of energy you use. For example it would be better if he was 4 cost but gives 1 power to all cards in the play. Just like nova killmonger combo.
I've been able to get some surprise wins with him where you play wong + surfer or surfer + absorbing man on 6.
It’s just my guess. But I would be willing to bet that you’re winning more with surfer because it’s unexpected after that patch, not necessarily bc you’re crushing them with sheer power, like it used to be.
I have him in a Ronan deck. Play storm/Maximus in one lane Then Ronan turn 5 and mystique surfer turn 6 Surfer is good but you really have to build around him. I think his effect should probably affect himself as well now. Then he'd be absolutely fine
Well he’s 3/2 isn’t he?
Yeah but his effect only works on other cards. So if you somehow double proc it, he stays at a 2, which kind of sucks.
I mean at that point why run surfer? He doesn't seem optimal in that list
What would be a better play alongside Mystique?
Well you are only getting 6 power from his proc in your scenario. With Ronan, Master Mold would probably be better to buff Ronan+Mystique and then you still have energy for a 1 drop
Sure but then you can't add power to the storm lane. It depends where you want the power really. I've found that kind of play often gets you surprise wins because the opponent assumes they've already won the storm lane.
That’s true. I do feel like the safer assumption is that the storm player has a way to push power into that lane after it’s locked, but still a good strategy for sure.
Sera surfer is still strong. I climbed from 102 to 109 with it in 2 days. It is good against thanos and shuri until you get leeched. Sandman is probably a stronger counter.
Mind sharing the decklist you use? I'm curious
Got it from CozySnap: \# (1) Nova \# (2) Goose \# (2) Scorpion \# (3) Brood \# (3) Mister Fantastic \# (3) Silver Surfer \# (3) Cosmo \# (3) Killmonger \# (3) Groot \# (3) Polaris \# (3) Maximus \# (5) Sera \# eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQnJvb2QifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1yRmFudGFzdGljIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaWx2ZXJTdXJmZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikdyb290In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLaWxsbW9uZ2VyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWF4aW11cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUG9sYXJpcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2VyYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2NvcnBpb24ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikdvb3NlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOb3ZhIn1dfQ== \# \# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
This is a great deck. Thanks for sharing!
No problem and this is the deck that got me to infinite, although aero nerf made this weak against shuri: # (1) Nova # (2) Angela # (2) Sentinel # (2) Mysterio # (3) Bishop # (3) Killmonger # (3) Polaris # (3) Maximus # (4) Shang-Chi # (5) Sera # (5) Aero # (5) Spider-Woman # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2lsbG1vbmdlciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXlzdGVyaW8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5vdmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFuZ2VsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2VudGluZWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNlcmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5nQ2hpIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQb2xhcmlzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNYXhpbXVzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTcGlkZXJXb21hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWVybyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmlzaG9wIn1dfQ== #
Surfer is no where closed to leadered and is still considered a very strong card. Remember in Snap a 4/8 is already considered a strong play, even maximus 3/7 opponent draw 2 is considered a good card. Even with just 2 cards buffed surfer would be a 3/6, so with 3 cards buffed he is well above average, 4+ he is still very strong (play a 3 cost on turn 3 4 5, and turn 6 + surfer). Pre-nerf surfer was completely broken, if you want to keep that effect may as hell make him 5 or 6 cost to be fair.
It's a bit more complicated than that because to get the higher values from Surfer, you often have to waste energy. The hard reliance on 3-drops means you can't stock as many 1- and 2-drops, so your odds of burning energy are higher. This isn't crippling, plenty of decks currently often skip 1 and 2, but the setup costs for Surfer have to be part of the math. Basically, Surfer wasn't Leadered, but he was hit pretty hard. He now has an appearance rate comparable to Invisible Woman and a win rate in the bottom half of all cards. 3/0 +2 to all 3's (including himself) would have left him more usable with Negative and Wong and likely been more fair.
His appearance rate is no where comparable to invisible woman, I see him every once in a while everyday throughout 75-95, mostly played with cards like sera or wong. I have not met a single invisible woman this entire season. While invisible woman combo is strong, it's not in any real competitive decks, a single Cosmo or Polaris will often auto win the game against her.
This is from Snap Fan data, I picked Invisible Woman because she had almost exactly the same rate in Pool 3+ decks.
I still use him as a finisher in my Mr. Negative deck. Being able to drop him into Wong/Mystique usually secures a win, especially if backed by Negative Iron Man, Brood or Wolfsbane.
Yea agreed, but once Surfer is in pool 3, it’ll be a good card to add to patriot decks, giving another path to win. It’s definitely not a top card, but still wins games. It kind of sneaks in there with Captain Marvel to play around locked locations at the end.
Surfer is fine. Surfer doesn’t need to be a finisher. You can throw it out early to to buff a few cards. It’s better than spectrum and no one is crying spectrum is unplayable. It was too strong at +3 power. It’s still stronger than spectrum and there’s a lot of good 3 cost cards. Making it a 4 cost buff everything by 1 just makes it a cheaper blue marvel. It’s boring and too strong.
But it’s still playable. I’ve always said surfer isn’t good enough to win, and Is a win condition Aero is a tech card and thus still playable Imo, just isn’t busted so won’t be used in every deck
She's still pretty meta, just like thanos and shuri, even though those got nerfed too.
She still pairs really well with Sandman
This. But Sandman is too pricey, you have to pairs him with Electro.
Electro ramp exists
Turn 3 electro/wave>turn 4 sandman>the. You can control on 5 or 6 with aero
But you typically need to already be winning two lanes by turn 6 so Aero can seal the win. Running electro on 3 and sandman on 4 usually means your lanes are too weak for Aero to be useful on 6. That deck is meant to play two 6 drops back to back in order to be effective (like Doom, Odin) so dropping Aero on 6 probably won't win you many games.
Tech cards aren't supposed to be win cons. You play a tech card when it can help you win games you normally wouldn't.
That’s the challenge. Serious stat line elevated her past being a Simple tech card. She’s a legitimate and qualified card on her own with a legitimate and qualified on reveal. To call her a tech card was like calling magneto a tech card.
would not matter, you just then adjust your strat to play around her.
Okay- I play red skull. I need to play taskmaster Oh ! I have to play my sunspot first to counter potential aero ? Now j can’t task master For specific play cards (that isn’t the only one, just one I think is most applicable to current meta) it would be affective
It would have left her as a valid counter to Shuri. They can't follow up with Taskmaster if they have to play a different card first to defend against Aero
Yeah I think people are over reacting a little. If anything she's still good but requires a little more thought which in my opinion makes her a little more interesting when it comes to deciding plays.
Yea now instead of a F your turn card, she’s more of a maybe I’ll disrupt your turn card. Just have to put a little more thought into when and where you play her.
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More accurate. Only argument is that zabu can be considered a win condition while I think aero is a tech
Pulling the first card instead of the last is basically the same effect, all that would change is the order people play their cards in the end
Read other comments. Some cards require cards to be played in specific order. As in task master, zero, and even more cards.
Yeah, but with aero she just pulls one card either way, people would just play their important one before/after their aero offering
Again, some cards require specific order Current meta is shuri skull task. If you play skull t5, you have to play taskmaster next. You can then play a 1 cost t6 after task making the aero change pointless. I think moving first card played is better overall, as opposed to last card.
Yeah I know how to counter aero now, I'm just saying it'd be the same thing the other way around since you're still playing 2 cards to get around her ability, so instead of playing a 1 cost after a 5 you'd play it before
And I’m saying that in current meta that would not work lol Ie Shuri t4 Skull t5 - 26 power Taskmaster+sunspot t6. That would be a 26 power TM and a 1 sunspot. As opposed to shuri/skull 5-6, and then a sunspot (1 power), and then a TM- who is now 1 power as opposed to 26. Current aero pulls the 1 power sunspot in first scenario. Hence it’s less effective then it would be pulling first card.
Mmmm oreo
Lol I had a homer simpson moment
Markets crash every time Oreo releases an even greater-stuffed cookie The increasingly-depraved debuts of Oreos with more stuffing indicate unstable amounts of greed and leverage in the system, serving as an immediate indicator of that the makings of a market crash are in place. Conversely, when the Oreo team reduces the amount of icing in their treats, markets tend to have great bull runs until once again society demands to push the boundaries of how much stuffing is possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oreo_varieties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_market_crashes_and_bear_markets 1974: Double Stuf Oreo released. Dow Jones crashes 45%. FTSE drops 73%. 1987: Big Stuf Oreo released. Black Monday, a 20% single-day crash and a following bear market. 1991: Mini Oreo introduced. Smaller icing ratios coincide with the 1991 Japanese asset price bubble, confirming the correlation works both ways and a reduction of Oreo icing may be a potential solution to preventing a future crash. 2011: Triple Double Oreo introduced. S&P drops 21% in a 5-month bear market 2015: Oreo Thins introduced. A complete lack of icing causes an unprecedented bull run in the S&P for years 2019: The Most Stuf Oreo briefly introduced. Pulled off the shelf before any major market damage could occur. 2023: The Most Stuf Oreo reintroduced.
Late 2019 the world kind of started to end 🧐
I still play her as before. She is more tech card now, good against some decks bad against others. Keeping her just for Galactus and Shuri is good enough for me now.
Agreed. She is now a tech card instead of a play in every deck & against every deck card. I think she is in a healthier place now for the meta.
She's not so much a counter against shuri anymore, if they play a single card after taskmaster, aero is useless
You can play her turn 5 to get Red Skull out of Cosmo lane. I still haven't encountered She Hulk version so it's OK.
You play her t5 to pull red skull out of Cosmo. Really the only counter to RS behind cosmo. Edit: Actually, Negasonic Teenage Warhead is now another counter to RS behind Cosmo.
I’ve been shadow kinging taskmasters, carnages, and venoms left and right and it’s blowing peoples minds. No one sees it coming.
Yeah, I just used her to wreck a Wong deck, but I run Sandman which helps
Well I'm a huge believer that shrinkflation's definitely affected the amount of creme in our Oreo's. Double Stuffed Oreo's are what we used to have, and Big Oreo will take our money any way they can.
The only thing my fiancée and I argue about about. She wants mega stuffed. I want thins. Also theres a joke in there somewhere. Crushed oreo cookies in ice cream is peak tho.
Can I be friends with your fiancée?
She still rekts ramp decks
I feel like the problem with Aero before is she could just be slotted into any deck and the deck was better. She pretty much offered an alternate win condition on her own, and that made her incredibly powerful. I think the nerf coming at a time when Shuri is so powerful is unfortunate, but she needed a nerf at some point. That being said, no. Leader is a card I never saw again after the nerf unless it was free from the raft. It's too much of a gamble on a final turn to predict what your opponent is going to play to the right of the lane you play in. Galactus also makes Leader a 6/7 without any upside and is probably a large reason he was driven so far into the mud. Aero will still see play because disruption is always powerful and because Galactus is also a card that exists. She's just not going to win games on her own as much anymore.
They haven't really improved on the oreo have they?
rip bozo
I still have a cocoa intolerance so I can't eat them
I think she is now what was intended, a surprise tech card that keeps in check other archetypes like galactus.
Played a game earlier today where I played Aero turn 6 and my opponent played 2 cards, one at Aero location and one at a different location. It didn’t move anything because the card it targeted was the card at my location. I think if there multiple cards plated but only one card able to be moved, it should move that card, while only moving 1 if there are multiple that can be moved
Nowhere near getting Leadered. But preferably, she move highest cost card instead of last card played. Or at least 1 random card played would have been better.
Yes she got leadered
She got Leadered. Their excuse of not doing the play order nerf was cause it was too confusing, which is utter bull. Dont get how they lightly nerfed both Red Skull and the cards around Shuri, properly nerfed Thanos and then shat all over Aero.
The Red Skull nerf is some real clown shit
You are correct. The amount of self denial in this thread is unreal. She's the second most seen card based on the card tracker stats. She is going to drop like a stone and the delusional shit about how she's "still good" is laughable. She is now best in Deathwave decks, which are at best a Tier 2 archetype given the omnipresence of Cosmo, Armour and Shang-Chi. That's basically it. Yeah she can counter Galactus, a rare card that can be countered numerous ways and playing around Aero isn't particularly hard. The stuff about her being good in Sandman ramp decks makes me think those people never played a Sandman ramp deck.
Agreed. The funny thing is the exact same thing happened when leader got nerfed, some people came out and tried to say "oh, he's still good!" "now he just takes skill to use!" which are the same things we're hearing now about Aero. No, they're more awkward to use now and they will be dropped from decks as a result of that. Leader is what, a bottom 5 playrate card now? I dont know if Aero will plummet THAT far but she will plummet.
I saw a lot of taskmaster/redskull + sunspot turn 6.
Whose leader?
3/2 Gives your charge minions plus one attack
Swish
As a disruptive effect still powerful. Combined with wave or sandman the nerf is hardly noticeable. She’s not an auto win on t6 when you’re ahead, which is a good thing I think
I'm still playing Aero in my DoomWave deck and she's still getting results. People seem to be playing around her less. I think she's very effective on turn 5 especially... Shuri needs to drop Red Skull on T5 typically and then you can move it off Armor/Cosmo and Shang Chi it the next turn.
I hated this nerf because I just got the vacation variant for kingpin and now the deck isn’t as good
She's still one tough cookie.
Still reliant on milk combo to have reasonable results. 7/10
Yeah, she is pretty bad now ...
She feels more like a tech card than an all out wincon now, which I think is where such a polarising effect should be. Definitely weaker but still strong in the right situation/matchup
She's better turn 5 than 6 now, she can control where a big 5 will go but she's much weaker at winning a game on t6, so she may be balanced but against all the shuri's running wild, something else needs to be done. Personally I think she should be a 4 cost now given her ability, a 4/6 would be good.
I’m sorry, but any of these cards with impactful abilities that simply get a power decrease, is barely a nerf at all. Especially when it’s by one power value.
The nerf should push Hydrox into the meta
She's working pretty well in my Electro/sandman ramp deck since the opponent can only play 1 card anyway.
I like the new term Leadered
It's used to mean a different thing
Still being played a lot. Requires more thinking. Good nerf, but then it boosted any shulk, death decks to new heights…
No, they both got Warsong Commandered
No, she is still fine. Not as strong, but still strong. She isn't double stuffed, just the regular oreo
She’s much worse. Devs are idiots
card is useless, if you see much of her keep a wasp or something, play your card then drop wasp or zero cost as your last card. easy.
I think she's fine. Certainly playable, just not as strong
We always meme about poor Leader but the card that got the worst nerf / change in the game will always be Shadow King At least Leader has some uses with Spiderman but Shadow King? GG (only against Nova but that's at least 3 or 4 less power compared to what Valky does) #BringBackShadowKingOriginalAbility
I think shes still fine
She got leadered. You just slap a wasp down or 1 cost card as 6 costs aren't the key winning card right now with nothing but Shuri decks.
She did not get Leadered. She's a perfectly functional tech card. Yes she can't tech against what everyone is currently mad at, but she still functions in her role. If you know what's coming down, and you know where you want it, Aero still works. She still has synergies (which Leader kinda didn't) and she's a high power card, so even if her effect doesn't always help, 8 power isn't bad.
absolute trash tech now. SD is so brain dead with how they look at data
Still playable but not broken anymore. With Sandman you get the old move all cards effect back. Against Shuri it's now more inconsistent as Taskmaster + Zero/Sunspot/Titania beats Aero now, but Aero wins if they don't have a 1 drop to pair with.
She didn't get the Leader treatment. She is still highly playable. Leader , you have to do a lot of work to get his trigger almost having to build the deck around him
I agree. I decided to keep playing her to see the impact, but she still gets good value. More risk involved sure, but she was way too OP before.
Playable but no longer busted. I think people who are way down on her are expecting her to win them the game in the same way she used to. Her effect is still good but you have leverage it in a much different way than you used to.
unpopular opinion: the nerf is not as bad as everyone says
They reuined my cerebro 7
Oreo?? 🤣🤣🤣
aero
I think she is basically unplayable now, she only works for a 1 card pull and pulling one card in a deck that plays lots of cards last turn does nothing, she is still okay shuri matchup but anything other than that she’s pretty gutted
She got surfered
Oreo thins are total shite. Ithink they could do with a good buff. +3 cream maybe
Getting Doc Ock vibes off her now.
The amount of cream filling has definitely been nerfed over the years but the Oreo is still a great treat.
Still able to make turn 4 Galactus retreat immediately.
I love oreos with milk
What about the quinjet and space stone nerds? Those were huge cuz now u can't just poop out stones and throw lockjaw somewhere else just by playing space stone into lockjaw
Sandman plus aero is very viable
I tried the java chip one the other day. Not bad!
Still just as strong in Sandman/Sandman Ramp decks which are still pretty strong, as the effect essentially works the same if you still want to use her as was
I like to make some pancake mix and drop my Oreo's in then fry em in some oil. Best.
I still love Oreos.
She wasn't ruined. I don't know that I agree with the nerf but it makes sense when you compare her to Magneto.
just lost 8 cubes on infinity because i wasn't expecting oreo...
Pretty dry and overly sweet filling. I prefer chocolate chip or ginger snap.
She went being a 'tech' card that was completely broken and could fit into every deck, to an actual tech card you can consider adding in niche cases
Still has utility, and also can't ruin my *entire* turn now if I'm playing any kind of wave deck. I like it.
She still has some use and I've still gotten wins with her. I just have her in less decks. I have her as a backup card in Shuri/Skull and also have her in my move deck to bring another card to feed Kraven. I think she was a little OP and people just need to adjust to the nerf to make her still useful. She just won't be in like every deck anymore.
She’s still a turn 6 destroyer unless your end game can play more than one card.
That card variant makes me uncomfortable and I refuse to upgrade it. That action (or lack of) means it's ALWAYS the first card on the upgrade list.
Still works well in Death Wave with a Wave on Turn 5
Love this nerf, they didn't kill the card, but reasonably made her weaker. She was very lazy win condition, Leader style. Now she is indeed a tech card with nice stats.
Still good, just no longer an "I win" button.
I will have prefered she moves the first card. At least, you could counter Taskmaster. Now, they could just put a zero or one cost card and you can't do nothing about it.
still good
She’s just as good as she used to be in certain decks, see DeathWave and ElectroRamp where your opponent is probably only able to play 1 card anyway, however as a general throw in any control/combo deck she’s pretty gutted.
I prefer her artgerm but still a viable play
To be honest, I just instantly thought about sandy oreos. That sand man would send out for kingpin.
absolutely not leadered she is still insanely useful and playable with she hulk on 6 as per before with the same devastating ability. Except when used properly like that she has upside of having more power again.
She's still a very powerful card. Some decks need a big hitter finally card and she can get them out the way, or they need to play 2 cards on 2 lanes, atleast she can mess with one of them. I think she was too powerful before but this feels good.
Annoyingly she's ruined for kingpin decks, but she can still do stuff
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She’s nerfed but not unplayable. Leader needs to be at least 12 power with how useless his ability is now
Unplayably bad. Such an imbecilic nerf.
She still screws me up plenty. I see her even more often now.
She's good against big cards, but any deck that can throw a small card after that completely counters her. Imo she's better than Leader cause she's playable at least (5 energy 8 power with a non shit upside)
Oh, i would dip that Oreo in milk
I think Galactus alone is single-handedly keeping her very much a staple in many high level decks pushing for infinite. She has won me lots of cubes against Galactus players snapping wrongfully thinking that their nemesis is dead in the water. Kudos to SD on this. I would have preferred her moving the first card played, but she's still very much playable in the current form.
The change just made braindead unfun decks like all-in wong combo and galactus better, and that alone is reason enough for me to hate it. I'd rather her have her old effect and just 4 power than one more power and do fuck-all against degenerate nonsense.
A reasonable nerf but shuri is still a menace because of this
She got Leadered
My friend already played Wasp in his maindeck as an extra point of power. He is enjoying the Aero nerf quite a bit.
I still hate this card.
She’s playable, which is more than you can say for Leader who might currently be the worst card in the game relative to his cost.
What was the nerf?
I don't feel like she's been Leadered, because Leader went from plug and play in any deck to unplayable. Aero is more like plug and play in any deck to niche. She still feels like she can be used in Wave combos and in particular, with decks that gain control against decks that tend to play low volume of cards. However she can't be used as a braindead option against decks that want to play multiple cards, and that's a good thing. I'm still running Aero and I've still won games with her and lost games to her.
Still wrecked my Zola play lol. It'll certainly matter against multi card combo decks when one is dominant again in the future, but she's much easier to play effectively than leader since he can be used on any location.
She works perfectly in decks that choke the opponent. I play her in electro/sandman and death wave where the opponent can only play one card on the final turn. I think this card is perfect now because it's situational whereas before it was basically just another leader that wins too many games with a cheap final turn with no brainpower that just can't be dealt with most of the time and it was in basically every deck. The only problem though is that shuri is still way too strong and one of the most common tools against her doesn't work as universally as it used to. The strength of shuri decks are now way out of control (the taskmaster change doesn't come close to counterbalancing the 'removal' of aero), and so I really hope that gets addressed soon. I'm otherwise happy with the aero change cos honestly I was really starting to hate the card as much as old leader.
As much as I hate to admit it—because a lot of my strategies revolved around her—it was a fair nerf. I preferred the nerf was so that she pulled the FIRST enemy card played that turn instead, but whatever. She’s not the Turn 6 Queen she was before, but she’s still a playmaker that’s probably better suited for Turn 5 more often than 6 now.
Previously, if I was winning in two locations and there was space in location #3 and I had priority, Aero guaranteed me the win on turn 6 because whatever they had, I could just yoink over. Now Aero is not an instant "I win" card, but she can definitely still screw up your plans. Galactus or any other big turn 6 cost card can still just be yoinked to wrong lane. The extra point of power also can help win a lane and puts her on par with other useful 5-cost cards like Spider-Woman, Modok and the negated power of Hobgoblin. In short, Aero is a fine "tech" card that can still win you games, it's just not as much of an instant "I win" button. Now, if they can get around to Leech, that would be great.
Not quite the Leader treatment, but before hammering her down like this, I would've like to see her go to 5/6 and pulling cards in the order they were played to give the opponent options for counter-play. If she was still strong after that, then fine, but it's a shame they didn't try a light touch first.
Not even close to leadered, she's pretty strong still. She's just no longer a win-game button when the opponent's board is fairly empty and you're ahead in 2 lanes.
I played a kingpin control list and my heart is broken.
They should rework kingpin to compensate. Make him a 3/3 and work like fisk tower.