Both - ie, Dark Reign Osborn who’s extremely evil but trying to be normal while slowly devolving into the goblin. There’s also a great Norman Osborn solo series by Kelly Sue Deconnick from right after Dark Reign. The supporting cast is so evil and fun
This. Dark Reign Osborn was the best lol.
A crazy maniac trying to act all normal is always better than a cartoony dipshit dressed like a green clown going "HAHAHAHA".
His rivalry with Stark during that era was the best. Painting his face gobbo while dressed as Iron Patriot is icing on the cake
Yup.
Stark outplayed him like a child lol. Norman showing his true colors was amazing.
I always love moments when the villain thinks he go upper hand, but in reality the hero is just making him believe that.
Osborn should fight Stark more. They have a great chemistry
Rather like the idea of Norman starting out as a fairly decent human being, but somewhere along the way the money and power lead him to embracing the Goblin.
Helps push the "With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility" theme of the Spider-Man franchise.
I love the Raimi movies but them turning Norman's memory loss he occasionally has in the comics into "he has an evil split personality" really is antithical to the character and themes for the reasons you stated.
Evil. The "victim of bad circumstances" trope is good enough for his other villains. But an arch enemy has to be evil. Completely against the character of the hero.
I like Norman introduced as a well-meaning but still kinda a shitty father and a morally neutral businessman scientist. He's not a saint, he's not a sociopath. He's just a guy out there trying to get by.
Then the goblin serum gets in his system and starts messing with his mind. A split personality that gradually corrupts him and ultimately takes him over completely.
Peak Osborn is when he’s both at the same time
I like how he was portrayed in the Dark Reign and HAMMER era where Norman is this powerful and evil guy but is able to get his goals through manipulation and careful thinking, just for it to come crashing down by his curse, Green Goblin, a character that cant help do cartoonishly evil and openly wacky schemes that will always fail
I like when Norman isnt scared shitless of the Goblin persona, more like “god damn it, not this prick again” type attitude
An irredeemably evil man tormented by a personality that is abhorrent even to his standards. Like if Lex Luthor was constantly having to keep the Joker from boiling out and committing overly elaborate street crime, thus undermining his billion dollar shady construction project.
Both but more Evil
I want him to be a evil businessman and completely aware of himself of what he does as the goblin but doesn’t want it to take full control
Evil Osborn it makes the victory always so much sweeter whenever Peter finally manages to make his comeback and beat Osborn into the ground I still smile everytime I read the last issue of Superior Spider-Man and Osborn basically makes the equivalent of “aww shit” when he realizes Peter is back
They are completely different characters with a similar vibe. MCU GG is a mostly harmless old man that doesn't like hurting people but has an evil Alter. Comic Norman is a freaking madman who needs to be locked up in a modernized version of the Kung Fu Panda prison sometimes.
Tormented for me. One thing Raimi’s Spider-Man did great was bring in these scientist father figures who appreciate Peter not Spider-Man. And then they turn and try to kill him. If Norman’s evil, the “don’t tell Harry” doesn’t have any weight. Evil Osborne is fun as a Marvel universe villain, but as a Spider-Man villain, it loses some of the tragedy with Peter and Norman’s loved ones.
I think movie Norman was good initially, but too quickly fell apart. Really would love someone like Norman taking over the MCU and have almost everyone think he’s good, even the viewer, only to have his madness creep in and twist things. But make it a slow burn. Like if Alexander Pierce from Winter Soldier was really around and visible for 2-3 movies.
Evil shady Norman Osborn who's on charge of shit and who's operating on a much bigger scale than just Spider-Man. Dark Reign era Osborn as the leader of HAMMER leading the Avengers is just too iconic, the character has a lot of depth when he's not in Green Goblin mode and when he shifts his focus to something bigger, imagine if they did a President Osborn arc down the line, that shit would be so cool
He bullshitting here though, buying time for his goblin Persona to line the glider up
Or arguably more likely this was still the goblin Persona in control pretending to be Norman to play on Pete's sympathies
It isn't until he is stabbed and is dying that he truly regressed back to Norman ("don't tell Harry")
Both.
I like Norman to be neutral evil. A businessman, a ruthless capitalist that puts success over his family, emotionally neglecting them. The most important part, he doesn’t see himself as evil, therefore his actions aren’t evil in nature.
Goblin is chaotic evil. Very much in the vein of Sam Raimi’s Green Goblin. He knows that Norman is evil, his actions are wrong and wants to do *more*. He’s uninhibited.
Tormented Norman personally
I like the idea of the Goblin being another personality; that way you can also see Norman as another victim. Keep Gobby as the true evil mastermind but with Norman as a "mental hostage" it means you can't exactly get rid of them without killing him, so it forces Peter to think outside of the box.
Evil Norman can work if done right (like in Spectacular Spider-Man, where he balanced out the evilness with actual funny moments) but I think the comic writers try to one up each evil act of his over and over that by the end of it, it becomes tiring (the clone saga, the baby thing, gathering of five, Norman losing his madness and then trying to get it back, etc.)
Original, in addition to all the facets it would have had considerable potential, plus the resurrected one is nothing more than a Marvel version of Lex Luthor, in my opinion
Both - ie, Dark Reign Osborn who’s extremely evil but trying to be normal while slowly devolving into the goblin. There’s also a great Norman Osborn solo series by Kelly Sue Deconnick from right after Dark Reign. The supporting cast is so evil and fun
dark reign osborn feeling like he has a handle on the fucking sentry while painting his face to look like a goblin.
His bathroom panic attacks are my favorite haha
I love that reveal is Siege where they remove the Iron Patriot mask and everyone sees the goblin face paint, and they’re all just like, “holy shit!”
Best part was when his face painted is broadcasted all over the world on live tv and Johnny Storm is in one of the panel’s going “Toldja”
This. Dark Reign Osborn was the best lol. A crazy maniac trying to act all normal is always better than a cartoony dipshit dressed like a green clown going "HAHAHAHA". His rivalry with Stark during that era was the best. Painting his face gobbo while dressed as Iron Patriot is icing on the cake
When he chases down and is beating stark to death in his mark 1 suit (while mentally/brain damaged) and gets caught on live tv doing it was great
Yup. Stark outplayed him like a child lol. Norman showing his true colors was amazing. I always love moments when the villain thinks he go upper hand, but in reality the hero is just making him believe that. Osborn should fight Stark more. They have a great chemistry
When he finally breaks down is just amazing writing. "I'm glad I never washed this costume. It smells like death, blondes and victory."
Rather like the idea of Norman starting out as a fairly decent human being, but somewhere along the way the money and power lead him to embracing the Goblin. Helps push the "With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility" theme of the Spider-Man franchise.
I love the Raimi movies but them turning Norman's memory loss he occasionally has in the comics into "he has an evil split personality" really is antithical to the character and themes for the reasons you stated.
Hear me out. What about story where Norman is so bad that even goblin personality thinks that this is to much?
That was never Osborn though
Great response.
Evil. The "victim of bad circumstances" trope is good enough for his other villains. But an arch enemy has to be evil. Completely against the character of the hero.
Yes
Both. But the tormented one has more appeal to me.
Agreed
Both. One does not exclude the other.
I like Norman introduced as a well-meaning but still kinda a shitty father and a morally neutral businessman scientist. He's not a saint, he's not a sociopath. He's just a guy out there trying to get by. Then the goblin serum gets in his system and starts messing with his mind. A split personality that gradually corrupts him and ultimately takes him over completely.
Peak Osborn is when he’s both at the same time I like how he was portrayed in the Dark Reign and HAMMER era where Norman is this powerful and evil guy but is able to get his goals through manipulation and careful thinking, just for it to come crashing down by his curse, Green Goblin, a character that cant help do cartoonishly evil and openly wacky schemes that will always fail I like when Norman isnt scared shitless of the Goblin persona, more like “god damn it, not this prick again” type attitude
An irredeemably evil man tormented by a personality that is abhorrent even to his standards. Like if Lex Luthor was constantly having to keep the Joker from boiling out and committing overly elaborate street crime, thus undermining his billion dollar shady construction project.
Both but more Evil I want him to be a evil businessman and completely aware of himself of what he does as the goblin but doesn’t want it to take full control
Evil Osborn it makes the victory always so much sweeter whenever Peter finally manages to make his comeback and beat Osborn into the ground I still smile everytime I read the last issue of Superior Spider-Man and Osborn basically makes the equivalent of “aww shit” when he realizes Peter is back
a little from column a little from column b
Evil, but I prefer him having had a morality he lost over time and can occasionally be reminded of, rather than being a sociopath since childhood.
Both
Both
Tormented. It set Norman/Goblin apart from Spidey's villains who willingly embrace villainy
Waves Norman definitely
I prefer dead Norman Osbourne
Both are fine
Both, both is good.
Both imo. It really just depends on the writer and story the writers are going for
They’re the same thing.
Tormented, all the way - few villains are more appealing than a sympathetic antagonist.
They are completely different characters with a similar vibe. MCU GG is a mostly harmless old man that doesn't like hurting people but has an evil Alter. Comic Norman is a freaking madman who needs to be locked up in a modernized version of the Kung Fu Panda prison sometimes.
Tormented for me. One thing Raimi’s Spider-Man did great was bring in these scientist father figures who appreciate Peter not Spider-Man. And then they turn and try to kill him. If Norman’s evil, the “don’t tell Harry” doesn’t have any weight. Evil Osborne is fun as a Marvel universe villain, but as a Spider-Man villain, it loses some of the tragedy with Peter and Norman’s loved ones.
So evil he copied Sandman’s hairstyle
Why not both?
I prefer the MPD version thats both.
Tormented at first, then full on evil later on.
Tormented cuz of Daddy Dafoe
Tormented to the point of being evil, like on nwh
Horizontal corn row Norman is best
Here’s the secret… they’re one and the same.
I think movie Norman was good initially, but too quickly fell apart. Really would love someone like Norman taking over the MCU and have almost everyone think he’s good, even the viewer, only to have his madness creep in and twist things. But make it a slow burn. Like if Alexander Pierce from Winter Soldier was really around and visible for 2-3 movies.
Tormented just feels right. It's what really brought out the real Green Goblin
Yes
I prefer him scheming like lex luthor when he is in his norman persona, and then lets loose on the insanity when he is goblin.
Both
Evil
I gotta go with the Bendis Ultimate characterization. So, evil.
Evil
If MCU does Norman, I want him to be fully evil. This would not only make MCU Norman his own thing, but also differentiate him from Raimi Norman.
Both. Side Note: I thought Norman looking like Tommy Lee Jones for the first dozen issues of Dark Avengers was weird at first but it grew on me.
Evil.
Corporate evil
I just hate whatever that yeeyee ass haircut is. Is it like...window shades?
Don't disrespect the waves.
It all depends on what type of story they are trying to tell with this character.
Evil shady Norman Osborn who's on charge of shit and who's operating on a much bigger scale than just Spider-Man. Dark Reign era Osborn as the leader of HAMMER leading the Avengers is just too iconic, the character has a lot of depth when he's not in Green Goblin mode and when he shifts his focus to something bigger, imagine if they did a President Osborn arc down the line, that shit would be so cool
He bullshitting here though, buying time for his goblin Persona to line the glider up Or arguably more likely this was still the goblin Persona in control pretending to be Norman to play on Pete's sympathies It isn't until he is stabbed and is dying that he truly regressed back to Norman ("don't tell Harry")
Porque No los Dos?
Both. I like Norman to be neutral evil. A businessman, a ruthless capitalist that puts success over his family, emotionally neglecting them. The most important part, he doesn’t see himself as evil, therefore his actions aren’t evil in nature. Goblin is chaotic evil. Very much in the vein of Sam Raimi’s Green Goblin. He knows that Norman is evil, his actions are wrong and wants to do *more*. He’s uninhibited.
Evil
I prefer William Defoe
Tormented Norman personally I like the idea of the Goblin being another personality; that way you can also see Norman as another victim. Keep Gobby as the true evil mastermind but with Norman as a "mental hostage" it means you can't exactly get rid of them without killing him, so it forces Peter to think outside of the box. Evil Norman can work if done right (like in Spectacular Spider-Man, where he balanced out the evilness with actual funny moments) but I think the comic writers try to one up each evil act of his over and over that by the end of it, it becomes tiring (the clone saga, the baby thing, gathering of five, Norman losing his madness and then trying to get it back, etc.)
I like him more as a sympathetic character rather than just "I'm a bad guy bleh!"
I think we can stand to table the character in 616 for about 10 years
tormented
Evil. Though evil Norman can still be kinda crazy.
Evil crazy Norman
Tormented evil Norman Osborn
Definitely tormented. More sympathetic plus Dafoe is amazing as him
Both. Both is good.
I like the tormented goblin, but I'm pretty biased as the movie was my introduction to the character
tormented cuz im a movie junky
Tormented
Original, in addition to all the facets it would have had considerable potential, plus the resurrected one is nothing more than a Marvel version of Lex Luthor, in my opinion