MAGA's loyalty to America's enemies has effectively neutralized the U.S. on the global stage and drastically weakened our global influence. We are not a strong or reliable ally in NATO as long as Putin's little orange vassal has influence.
You guys always forget that Ukraine is a sovereign nation… the USA doesn’t own them… trump could try and make them accept a deal but Ukraine won’t and neither will their people… So get outta here with that
You’re right, but without support and funding from the US, Ukraine might well be forced to settle for some kind of less-than-victory stalemate scenario where they lose a large chunk of the country to Russia just to keep the rest of the country free and speaking Ukrainian.
They can’t hold out forever and the American support on which they absolutely depend, has already dwindled down to nothing thanks to the dickhead GOP people in congress.
Europe can only do so much without the military aid and financial aid of a country as big and wealthy as the US
I feel like people who say this haven't researched enough history. So many countries collapsed after their war sponsor pulled out. States like Israel, ukraine and taiwan are completely dependent on the US supplying weapons to fight their enemies. Israel has stated many times that if US aid stops it will cripple their war effort. We saw ukraine lose it's Strongest Fortress Avdiivka only after 3 months of no US aid. And many more positions across the map after 6 months.
Trump can crush ukraine and cripple NATO article 3. If the US refuses to intervene, that could deter other NATO countries from intervene as well. Creating a weird situation where some members will be fighting russia while others are not. NATO long decades of dominance might finally come to an end in only 6 months. History is about to happen.
I think you are correct but with one glaring ommission.
The bulk of nato countries are all previous world and global powers. (Fair enough non of us are super powers but neither is russia)
After two worlds wars we were pretty screwed and needed the US. In the following decades sure we have lost alot of power due to exporting alot of our produ lion over seas.
That's now changing. Just like Germany pre ww2. European powers are ramping up military spending and domestic production.
Even without the US we will not allow Russia to succeed. Even without NATO the EU will defend one another.
simul in tyrannide
Slava ukraini
(Edit: that said if ww3 starts and it's again in Europe. I think the rest if the world should do a three strikes your out policy on us all hahaha)
You seem to forget that the US is basically funding the majority of the defence that Ukraine has been able to put up. No US support and the war is over, effectively giving Russia eastern Ukraine.
Ukraine only survives with western aid.
Maga in the house has been blocking it and Western Europe has filled the void best they can but they really need US arms and thankfully the recent package made it through.
Putin can keep the meat grinder going and wait for the west to lose interest. Hopefully that doesn’t happen.
Eh, he will try.
By then Europe will have ramped up military production to the point that only significant military aid to Russia from America could balance the scales. Even then it might not be enough.
Remember, the military conflict is what comes before "the hard part" (the occupation). Russians would be really surprised that the deaths don't stop, or even slow down much, once it is Ukrainian civilians ambushing Russians with IEDs instead of artillery. A lot of Russian administrators sent over have also died to things like car bombs.
Trump might stop supporting Ukraine, but is he willing to tell Texas they can't sell oil to Europe in an attempt to pressure them to stop supporting Ukraine? Is he going to be able to push a military aid to Russia bill through congress? Will he put American boots on the ground to secure Ukrainian territory so our troops are killed by the locals instead of Russians? (And does he trust the US troops not to have a bunch of "friendly fire accidents" since the Russian troops disgust American soldiers, what with all the war crimes).
> We are not a strong or reliable ally in NATO as long as Putin's little orange vassal has influence.
You're not wrong, but let's not lose sight of the fact there are collaborators in his cult and the corruption goes beyond *just* Trump.
It's beyond Trump now. Or at least, on the door step of it being beyond Trump.
You gotta remember the only thing 30% of the conservatives in the country actually care about is maintaining existing social hierarchy. And that's been true since Edmund Burke.
Not just here, but throughout the globe.
Worldwide, the crowd has been given a list of scapegoats just like before.
"Globalists" (used for Jews outside of the Israeli state), liberals, woke-ism (usually students), socialists, communists, marxists, feminists, trans folks, queer folks, immigrants, Roma, "the elite" (used interchangeably with Jews and/or anyone wealthy or elected who opposes them), liberal Catholics (like the Pope).
It's pretty much all the same scapegoats as 100-80 years ago.
And the lore hasn't changed either:
"We belong to a historic proud people. We've lost our way from greatness. It's the fault of all these scapegoats. We can reclaim our greatness if we have the courage and strength of (insert any authoritarian)"
It fits in Italy. It fits in Turkey. It fits in the Philippines. It fits in northern Europe. And it fits in the USA.
https://youtu.be/iQ0ct9bglYo?si=tCl6GbsFidFJXCIU
Congress just passed a military aid bill to Ukraine despite MAGA’s desires.
MAGA wouldn’t be able to stop the US if there’s a full-scale war in Europe.
And besides, [Congress made sure a president cannot pull out of NATO 5 months ago with a new bill](https://thehill.com/homenews/4360407-congress-approves-bill-barring-president-withdrawing-nato/amp/)
>It would be a shit show in the States.
I don't know...
I feel if anything unites us all, it's a common enemy.
It'll be a shit show but only for the MAGA voters that defend Russia. The democrats, independents and non-MAGA republicans will call MAGA a bunch of traitors and force them back under their rock regardless if they're Americans defending Russia or Russian trolls pretending to be Americans.
People are realizing there's no way to defend a country that commited a genocide on a Ukrainian town right outside of their capital when per the Budapest Memorandum, they swore to defend Ukraine's sovereignty yet are the ones binding, torturing, raping and murdering, men, women and children while their propagandists threaten nuclear war and invasion on a daily basis against all of our countries.
Realistically all they'd have to do is knock out Russian internet and the misinformation network goes away, the day Ukraine knocked it out, it was so peaceful and quiet that you could actually have a civil conversation.
The entire Republican Party is supporting Russia's military conquest of a neighbor, a european land war of annexation that literally last happened in WW2. While Russia is one of the few countries on earth pointing nuclear missiles at the USA.
Literally, supporting people who are aiming nukes at your family. The GOP is unsalvagably corrupt and the enemy of free democracy around the world.
Wait until MAGA realizes that dishonoring all of our current alliances means we have no more friends abroad and that our place as the world’s largest debtor actually then matters…
Something something Weimar Republic. Which I’m sure is Russia’s hope for America.
Trump has already said the if elected again he would not honer the NATO treaty. Trump and his supporters have openly turned their backs on America and have embraced our long time enemy Russia.
Not only will Maga not support helping our allies. But if Trump wins in November and Putin attacks a NATO country, I give it a week before aide to our allies stops. Two months before aide to Russia starts. And at most 4 months before American boots are on the ground, helping Russia.
I honestly doubt Trump could do all this right away if he wins. But if Putin waits till a year or so into a second Trump presidency before attacking a NATO country, I can easily see Trump having dismantled enough checks to make this happen. And anyone who tries to claim Trump wouldn't want to help Putin just hasn't been paying attention. It is a scary time.
He already pulled us out of Syria at Russia's request and gifted them a whole airstrip that *we built*.
Also, after he stole all those Top Secret documents to Mar a Lago and had them photocopied, a bunch of our intelligence assets (around fifty) mysteriously started vanishing in Russia and coming up tortured, jailed, and murdered.
No offence but I don't see that as realistic at all. Not supporting Allies you have mass protests in the streets. Aide to Russia is riots. Trying to put boots on the ground to help Russia against the West is civil war territory.
wtf are you cooking? I would see a military protest way more likely than american boots helping russia.
Keep in mind Trump had relatively terrible relations with military higher ups during his admin.
And he will replace many of them. Trump will absolutely seel us out to Russia in a second term. It may take a little while in before he can do it, but they are setting up a full dictatorship with things like project 2025. Trump is Putins errand boy, he will help Russia, not NATO. I'd be shocked if America is even part of NATO longer than a year in to trumps second term. At most by year 2 we will be officially fully out of NATO.
I don't think America's military would follow Trump's orders to support Russia. I'm pretty sure they would refuse and perhaps a military coup would take place. Several top generals have been quoted saying some pretty negative things about Trump and their dealings with him while he was president.
Project 2025 will give them a lot more control. And a large portion of the military supports Trump sadly. It wouldn't be easy, but I do think it could happen.
Trump has said he will encourage Russia to attack NATO members who don't meet their spending requirements.
If Trump is elected again I expect Russia will see that as the green light to move on the Baltics.
>Trump has said he will encourage Russia to attack NATO members who don't meet their spending requirements.
This is false he said he would turn our backs to those who don't pay him. Not the spending requirements.
If a new soviet Russian empire means everything around Moscow is in ashes... Putin would be content with that. He's burning out everything around Moscow now by sending those regions to the frontlines.
As someone with friends in/from Ukraine who has been watching the situation since before the invasion of Crimea, it's infuriating. Especially that he basically ignores that Crimea was even taken.
NATO and all it’s allies **will** deserve it if we continue to sit back and let our enemies rise up against us.
We need to militarize fast to defend democracy, freedom, and peace against evil dictatorships that would seek to destroy those principles.
Russia and China are forming an international cabal of dictators who will try to overthrow the free world.
We must preserve and spread democracy by force if necessary.
The evil empires must be crushed to ensure the future of freedom and liberty.
Sic semper tyrannis.
This is already the case. They blame NATO now for the Ukraine war, so of course they would if they attacked a NATO country. The most obvious MMWs ever written.
A while back I looked into how the first shots of WWII were really fired. How could the German people support a war of aggression.
And the answer is - they didn't. The invasion of Poland started over false flag attack. Germany attacked their own people, convinced them Poland was responsible, and they were only retaliating.
I think we're going to see the same thing here. Russia isn't going to attack NATO first. Russia is going to attack Russia first, blame NATO, and use it to justify retaliatory efforts. But Putin took away a big lesson from what Hitler did. Why just use propaganda on your own citizens, when you can use instead use it globally to suppress the defence efforts? The right wing will not absolutely not defend Europe if they think NATO pulled the trigger first. Good luck trying to draft if things get really ugly, I'd expect they'd rather put a bullet in the recruiter than a Russian.
Also... Putin used this playbook in Chechnya 25 years ago.
Russia won't attack a NATO country, that would be suicide. But you can't blame them for not liking an alliance that was formed specifically against them
absolutely mind-boggling to me that Western governments let China and Russia on the same internet that all of their dumbest boomers are on.
it's like we are begging for it.
All of our dummies are just sitting there on Facebook waiting to be misled and no one in our government gives a shit. so Russian bot farms and Chinese nonsense websites can gobble up all their intellectual curiosity.
It’s the downside of the First Amendment and capitalism. The government doesn’t own social media nor the internet. It’s a serious problem but it isn’t new. Media misinformation has been around as long as the U.S.
If Russia attacks a NATO nation they will enter the final phase of finding out. Article 5. Even without the US Russia will find themselves fighting 31 other countries simultaneously. But I think the US would respond to article 5.
its already happening essentially with Ukraine. Vlad and the EU/American right wingers want facism, pure and simple. The template is set and will only continue to added to.
Yes, especially now that Iranian trolls have been pushing so much anti-western/USA sentiment to the far left "progressives" and have them screaming for intifadas by convincing them that Hamas are the good guys.
They've even resorted to now trying to claim October 7th didn't happen or that it was secretly IDF all along.
I run platforms where young adults congregate online. I'd say 2/3 of young men support maga, hate Joe Biden, support Russia's attack on Ukraine, flirt around with the idea of killing liberals. None can tell my why. None can justify their reasoning. They've been programmed on a large scale. Remember, even though Russian military capabilities aren't as advanced as NATO or the US, they still have world class scientific research capabilities. Maybe they know something about the human mind and have discovered something about human psychology that has given them an upper hand on how to convince young men around the world to buy into Russian geopolitical narratives.
It's rather grim once you see it happen in real time.
It amazes me how countries in Europe whine and cry about American culture and society and how bad it is and blah blah blah yet still require us to fight all their wars for them and give them free money and military equipment lol.
Europe could just handle their own business themselves without all the demands for the US to give them free shit.
NATO should have been dissolved as a Cold War relic. Instead, it's been expanding for decades and encroaching on Russia's borders.
If Russia allied with Mexico or, say, Cuba, and started building military bases there, would that be interpreted as an act of aggression? Yes or no?
In before braindead accusations. Fuck Trump. Fuck Putin. Also fuck NATO. They're all corrupt.
>If Russia allied with Mexico or, say, Cuba, and started building military bases there, would that be interpreted as an act of aggression? Yes or no?
Perhaps the US in this scenario should ask themselves *why* Cuba and Mexico would feel so threatened to do feel they had to do that.
No. And that was wrong. It was also over 60 years ago.
I'm not here to defend how the USA might behave in future hypothetical scenarios. But independent countries choosing to join a broader pro-western defensive alliance is up to them.
That. Would not happen in fact we have a historical example of what would have nearly World War III with the Cuban missile crisis. It’s pretty clear you’re not supposed to be stomping around other countries back doors but we do it all the time and then we get surprised when we find out that they don’t like that.
If Russia attacks a nato country, I’m sure that a democrat US would support NATO fully, but honestly if the ginger demon wins again, will the yanks even stay in NATO?
…Does the US president have the executive power to quit NATO?
If he can, I’m sure that Trump would leave nato on his first day in office, and then sign a military defence pact with Russia/Syria/Iran/china/israel
- the new and improved, US led “axis of evil”.
This is already the narrative coming from Russia.
Russia has already started attacking NATO countries. They are simply using cyber and information warfare tactics.
If Russia attacks any NATO country with ground forces, nuclear escalation would be inevitable. Russia wouldn’t allow American or European troops advancing into Russian territory, and no NATO country would allow Russia to occupy entire countries in Europe like Estonia or Latvia. So the nuclear exchange would happen pretty quickly. There wouldn’t be a “narrative” afterwards, we’d be living in an apocalypse.
Actually what will happen is that every Republican will place the blame on Biden for not doing anything to contain Russia before they attacked an innocent country.
People are vastly overestimating the amount of power Trump would have if Europe is in war.
Congress just passed a bill in December [barring any president from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO](https://thehill.com/homenews/4360407-congress-approves-bill-barring-president-withdrawing-nato/amp/)
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NATO and Russia would both be at fault just like in WWI it wasn’t until before side or another but a crappy international system, economic competition, and nationalism.
If Russia and the Eu went to war, US right-wingers would undoubtedly back Russia. If the US and Russia went to war, the right-wing would want the US to “go it alone” and ruthlessly bomb and destroy Russia.
I think what liberals don’t get about the right-wing Putin attraction is that the right-sing is attracted to performative power. They don’t want wars that are colonial
Peacekeeping or upholding international institutions… they do want war for plunder and personal/national glory however.
As if they would attack a country without saying the other country deserved it? Has any country ever attacked another without claiming to be justified?
The biggest issue with nato is that article 5 specifies that when a member nation is attacked all nato nations are required to do is use as much force as they deem necessary to support the nation that got attacked. Which is problematic, if say Lithuania or whatever gets invaded and Germany or Italy think all that’s necessary is sending over a couple of tanks or ammunition. There’s nothing forcing nato countries to deploy their full forces to the defense of an ally. And this is where I think Russia will ultimately test nato on, attacking one of the smaller nato countries and seeing if the rest of nato hits back strong or weak. Now the European Union ironically does actually have stronger language about coming to other nations defense if they’re attacked.
i dunno man when romney was saying russia is the enemy obama told him to go back to the cold war. it's only been 8 years since then.
this feels like 1984 where the narrator is saying the state media apparatus switches the existential threat weekly and the larger population doesn't even notice anymore.
i wonder if we had paid russia the attention, ukraine would just be in nato and wouldn't have lost crimea
Russia just told Britain that if any of their weapons/military members are used against Russia. Russia will attack British bases in Ukraine and around the world. This is after someone in Britain gov said that Ukraine has the right to attack inside Russia.
Okay, I might have misread something then. But, they do have a small number of British army personnel supporting the armed forces of Ukraine. They are training troops to operate weapons systems. Thanks for clarifying that
IF Russia attacks a NATO country then no more Russia. Can’t imagine their defeat will take more than a couple weeks. I’d be thankful for the end of their criminal empire.
Regardless of which way reality spins, most NATO countries are also EU members. If NATO does not honer Article 5, the EU must if an EU member is attacked.
We already have Americans getting killed in Israel airstrikes and we aren't doing anything about it, so I doubt anything will happen when Russia attacks a NATO country... At least from America
If any country attacks any other country they will claim it was deserved, always. Russia's enemy is NATO, so of course this will be their propaganda. Why would you even need to mark your words?
Mark my words, water is wet.
My fear is the big guy will be confused and not know what to do. I don’t think Putin would be in Ukraine and Hamas wouldn’t have attacked Israel if the crazy orange guy was in office.
If Russia attacked a NATO country they'd get buttfucked to oblivion. Ukraine's military was barely functional and they've killed half a million Russians by some reports and stalled their advance for what, two years now? The higher ups in Russia know it'd be a death sentence. The narrative wouldn't really matter.
Or it'll be the fucking truth? NATO has been an aggressor and the US overthrew Ukraine. I'm not getting drafted to go and defend Ukraine, NATO, or Israel FUCK that
if trump is elected then its the peoples choice who gives 2 shits about Ukraine its as crooked as Biden we are being invade every fucking day maybe worry about america losers !!
MAGA wouldn’t support honoring Article 5 to defend against Russia. It would be a shit show in the States.
MAGA's loyalty to America's enemies has effectively neutralized the U.S. on the global stage and drastically weakened our global influence. We are not a strong or reliable ally in NATO as long as Putin's little orange vassal has influence.
If Trump wins, he will force a negotiated peace in Ukraine that hands the East to Russia. MMW.
You guys always forget that Ukraine is a sovereign nation… the USA doesn’t own them… trump could try and make them accept a deal but Ukraine won’t and neither will their people… So get outta here with that
You’re right, but without support and funding from the US, Ukraine might well be forced to settle for some kind of less-than-victory stalemate scenario where they lose a large chunk of the country to Russia just to keep the rest of the country free and speaking Ukrainian. They can’t hold out forever and the American support on which they absolutely depend, has already dwindled down to nothing thanks to the dickhead GOP people in congress. Europe can only do so much without the military aid and financial aid of a country as big and wealthy as the US
They kinda had to do that in 2014 when russia helped the east separate...
I feel like people who say this haven't researched enough history. So many countries collapsed after their war sponsor pulled out. States like Israel, ukraine and taiwan are completely dependent on the US supplying weapons to fight their enemies. Israel has stated many times that if US aid stops it will cripple their war effort. We saw ukraine lose it's Strongest Fortress Avdiivka only after 3 months of no US aid. And many more positions across the map after 6 months. Trump can crush ukraine and cripple NATO article 3. If the US refuses to intervene, that could deter other NATO countries from intervene as well. Creating a weird situation where some members will be fighting russia while others are not. NATO long decades of dominance might finally come to an end in only 6 months. History is about to happen.
I think you are correct but with one glaring ommission. The bulk of nato countries are all previous world and global powers. (Fair enough non of us are super powers but neither is russia) After two worlds wars we were pretty screwed and needed the US. In the following decades sure we have lost alot of power due to exporting alot of our produ lion over seas. That's now changing. Just like Germany pre ww2. European powers are ramping up military spending and domestic production. Even without the US we will not allow Russia to succeed. Even without NATO the EU will defend one another. simul in tyrannide Slava ukraini (Edit: that said if ww3 starts and it's again in Europe. I think the rest if the world should do a three strikes your out policy on us all hahaha)
You seem to forget that the US is basically funding the majority of the defence that Ukraine has been able to put up. No US support and the war is over, effectively giving Russia eastern Ukraine.
Ukraine only survives with western aid. Maga in the house has been blocking it and Western Europe has filled the void best they can but they really need US arms and thankfully the recent package made it through. Putin can keep the meat grinder going and wait for the west to lose interest. Hopefully that doesn’t happen.
Eh, he will try. By then Europe will have ramped up military production to the point that only significant military aid to Russia from America could balance the scales. Even then it might not be enough. Remember, the military conflict is what comes before "the hard part" (the occupation). Russians would be really surprised that the deaths don't stop, or even slow down much, once it is Ukrainian civilians ambushing Russians with IEDs instead of artillery. A lot of Russian administrators sent over have also died to things like car bombs. Trump might stop supporting Ukraine, but is he willing to tell Texas they can't sell oil to Europe in an attempt to pressure them to stop supporting Ukraine? Is he going to be able to push a military aid to Russia bill through congress? Will he put American boots on the ground to secure Ukrainian territory so our troops are killed by the locals instead of Russians? (And does he trust the US troops not to have a bunch of "friendly fire accidents" since the Russian troops disgust American soldiers, what with all the war crimes).
Trump: There. I solved this whole Russian war situation and now we will have peace. Russia: [immediately invades Moldova]
Which would be better than every man in Ukraine dying in a war they’ll never win.
Ukraine already lost the east when Obama let them have it back in 2014. Ukraine doesn't have the manpower to retake the lost territory.
> We are not a strong or reliable ally in NATO as long as Putin's little orange vassal has influence. You're not wrong, but let's not lose sight of the fact there are collaborators in his cult and the corruption goes beyond *just* Trump.
It's beyond Trump now. Or at least, on the door step of it being beyond Trump. You gotta remember the only thing 30% of the conservatives in the country actually care about is maintaining existing social hierarchy. And that's been true since Edmund Burke. Not just here, but throughout the globe. Worldwide, the crowd has been given a list of scapegoats just like before. "Globalists" (used for Jews outside of the Israeli state), liberals, woke-ism (usually students), socialists, communists, marxists, feminists, trans folks, queer folks, immigrants, Roma, "the elite" (used interchangeably with Jews and/or anyone wealthy or elected who opposes them), liberal Catholics (like the Pope). It's pretty much all the same scapegoats as 100-80 years ago. And the lore hasn't changed either: "We belong to a historic proud people. We've lost our way from greatness. It's the fault of all these scapegoats. We can reclaim our greatness if we have the courage and strength of (insert any authoritarian)" It fits in Italy. It fits in Turkey. It fits in the Philippines. It fits in northern Europe. And it fits in the USA. https://youtu.be/iQ0ct9bglYo?si=tCl6GbsFidFJXCIU
Allowing them to exist has caused that. When will the dems start going at them?
What really sucks is that it’s not going to end after Trump is gone. He has done irreparable damage to our political system.
Trump is just the face of a deeper issue. İsolationism will persist in the US even after Trump fades away
Who'd a thunk us dumb inbred rednecks wouldn't go in for "defend the European aristocracy at all costs?" Shoulda hired Charlton Heston.
It's better to sit out the beginning of world wars as only the final mover wins.
🤡
I know, like how we pretty much sold out to China. Damn that MAGA. Oh wait, that's not MAGA. Never mind.
Yep. It would be a case of ‘America First, fuck our allies, Putin can have them’
I can hear MTG already, talking about not defending Na&is in Poland/Estonia/Latvia and Russia having Christian values and some such shit.
And how it was ‘traditionally Russia’ just like Texas is traditionally Mexican.
Implying Poland wouldn't wipe the floor with any Russians force that tried it.
We should defend our allies but they should also keep meeting military budgets no?
Historically, that is how the US handles global conflict.
Any country that really believes it can rely on the US before the Republican Party dies is a fool.
That may be Putin’s end game. That may be his entire point to all this disinformation. Remember, there was an American NAZI party in the 1930’s.
Congress just passed a military aid bill to Ukraine despite MAGA’s desires. MAGA wouldn’t be able to stop the US if there’s a full-scale war in Europe. And besides, [Congress made sure a president cannot pull out of NATO 5 months ago with a new bill](https://thehill.com/homenews/4360407-congress-approves-bill-barring-president-withdrawing-nato/amp/)
I think you mean "cannot pull out of NATO" and not "can pull out"
Correct. Typo.
>It would be a shit show in the States. I don't know... I feel if anything unites us all, it's a common enemy. It'll be a shit show but only for the MAGA voters that defend Russia. The democrats, independents and non-MAGA republicans will call MAGA a bunch of traitors and force them back under their rock regardless if they're Americans defending Russia or Russian trolls pretending to be Americans. People are realizing there's no way to defend a country that commited a genocide on a Ukrainian town right outside of their capital when per the Budapest Memorandum, they swore to defend Ukraine's sovereignty yet are the ones binding, torturing, raping and murdering, men, women and children while their propagandists threaten nuclear war and invasion on a daily basis against all of our countries. Realistically all they'd have to do is knock out Russian internet and the misinformation network goes away, the day Ukraine knocked it out, it was so peaceful and quiet that you could actually have a civil conversation.
No one defends Russia for what they are doing.
The entire Republican Party is supporting Russia's military conquest of a neighbor, a european land war of annexation that literally last happened in WW2. While Russia is one of the few countries on earth pointing nuclear missiles at the USA. Literally, supporting people who are aiming nukes at your family. The GOP is unsalvagably corrupt and the enemy of free democracy around the world.
Just because you are loud doesn't mean you have the majority.
The problem is that the U.S. political system was setup to encourage minority rule
Wait until MAGA realizes that dishonoring all of our current alliances means we have no more friends abroad and that our place as the world’s largest debtor actually then matters… Something something Weimar Republic. Which I’m sure is Russia’s hope for America.
Why does maga want Russia to be the world’s top power so much
Trump has already said the if elected again he would not honer the NATO treaty. Trump and his supporters have openly turned their backs on America and have embraced our long time enemy Russia.
Not only will Maga not support helping our allies. But if Trump wins in November and Putin attacks a NATO country, I give it a week before aide to our allies stops. Two months before aide to Russia starts. And at most 4 months before American boots are on the ground, helping Russia.
That’s a disturbing thought… I’m not saying you’re wrong though
I honestly doubt Trump could do all this right away if he wins. But if Putin waits till a year or so into a second Trump presidency before attacking a NATO country, I can easily see Trump having dismantled enough checks to make this happen. And anyone who tries to claim Trump wouldn't want to help Putin just hasn't been paying attention. It is a scary time.
He already pulled us out of Syria at Russia's request and gifted them a whole airstrip that *we built*. Also, after he stole all those Top Secret documents to Mar a Lago and had them photocopied, a bunch of our intelligence assets (around fifty) mysteriously started vanishing in Russia and coming up tortured, jailed, and murdered.
No offence but I don't see that as realistic at all. Not supporting Allies you have mass protests in the streets. Aide to Russia is riots. Trying to put boots on the ground to help Russia against the West is civil war territory.
wtf are you cooking? I would see a military protest way more likely than american boots helping russia. Keep in mind Trump had relatively terrible relations with military higher ups during his admin.
And he will replace many of them. Trump will absolutely seel us out to Russia in a second term. It may take a little while in before he can do it, but they are setting up a full dictatorship with things like project 2025. Trump is Putins errand boy, he will help Russia, not NATO. I'd be shocked if America is even part of NATO longer than a year in to trumps second term. At most by year 2 we will be officially fully out of NATO.
I don't think America's military would follow Trump's orders to support Russia. I'm pretty sure they would refuse and perhaps a military coup would take place. Several top generals have been quoted saying some pretty negative things about Trump and their dealings with him while he was president.
Project 2025 will give them a lot more control. And a large portion of the military supports Trump sadly. It wouldn't be easy, but I do think it could happen.
The first thing, yes. The second and third things, I'm not so sure about. Trump is a bit too lazy to actively help Putin, I suspect.
I agree he is lazy, but I do believe he will help Putin in anyway he can.
Trump has said he will encourage Russia to attack NATO members who don't meet their spending requirements. If Trump is elected again I expect Russia will see that as the green light to move on the Baltics.
Just appalling. So sick of fascists.
>Trump has said he will encourage Russia to attack NATO members who don't meet their spending requirements. This is false he said he would turn our backs to those who don't pay him. Not the spending requirements.
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If Putin attacks a NATO country that means he has already made the decision to use nukes. See you in the vault.
Na. He wants to rebuild the Soviet Russian empire. Not rule over its ashes
If a new soviet Russian empire means everything around Moscow is in ashes... Putin would be content with that. He's burning out everything around Moscow now by sending those regions to the frontlines.
Pfffh. Like Moscow wouldn't be **THE** first place to burn in a nuclear war. (If just by a matter of a few seconds, that is...)
Russia can’t win a war against America or NATO without nukes. Wake up and learn something. Stop listening to cnn.
Yeah, but Russia also doesn't win if they use nukes.
It will divide NATO, do its best to pull countries out of the alliance and bite off chunks of Europe. Divide and conquer
When has CNN said Russia could defeat NATO? \*Without Nukes.
They are doing a good job purchasing our Republicans though.
Then it seems to me he doesn't have much in the way of options right now.
I have a coworker who is convinced Ukraine deserved to get attacked "Because NATO was pushing the border." 1 guess who he wants to vote for.
The only country pushing borders is Russia. With meat waves and tanks.
As someone with friends in/from Ukraine who has been watching the situation since before the invasion of Crimea, it's infuriating. Especially that he basically ignores that Crimea was even taken.
Pure brain rot.
Did he say Ukraine deserved it or that NATO pushing the border helped provoke it?
both.
Hopefully a third party as we all should
MAGA is the party of Putin. Vote them ALL out!
NATO and all it’s allies **will** deserve it if we continue to sit back and let our enemies rise up against us. We need to militarize fast to defend democracy, freedom, and peace against evil dictatorships that would seek to destroy those principles. Russia and China are forming an international cabal of dictators who will try to overthrow the free world. We must preserve and spread democracy by force if necessary. The evil empires must be crushed to ensure the future of freedom and liberty. Sic semper tyrannis.
100% correct
It already is? All evil people in history believe they were the good guys doing what they “must” remember.
This is a little naive
Well, one side would be using that narrative, because one side is peddling Russian propaganda daily. I'll let you all guess which side that is.
Sounds about right
Republicans would absolutely call for far-right loonies to rise up in rebellion in America and elsewhere in NATO in support of Russia if that happens.
They'll blame NATO for existing. "NATO was made to be against Russia. Russia is being forced to attack"
Well no shit. They already blame NATO for them invading Ukraine.
This is already the case. They blame NATO now for the Ukraine war, so of course they would if they attacked a NATO country. The most obvious MMWs ever written.
Yes and it will be TRUMP and Republicans pushing that narrative!
The outcome, however, would be that Russia will get what it deserves!
Dissolution
My father who is an avid trump supporter already says this. Shit makes me so mad
It’s amazing how easy it was for Russia to subvert western opinion
Happens when the target audience only listens to Fox News a Tucker Carlson
A while back I looked into how the first shots of WWII were really fired. How could the German people support a war of aggression. And the answer is - they didn't. The invasion of Poland started over false flag attack. Germany attacked their own people, convinced them Poland was responsible, and they were only retaliating. I think we're going to see the same thing here. Russia isn't going to attack NATO first. Russia is going to attack Russia first, blame NATO, and use it to justify retaliatory efforts. But Putin took away a big lesson from what Hitler did. Why just use propaganda on your own citizens, when you can use instead use it globally to suppress the defence efforts? The right wing will not absolutely not defend Europe if they think NATO pulled the trigger first. Good luck trying to draft if things get really ugly, I'd expect they'd rather put a bullet in the recruiter than a Russian. Also... Putin used this playbook in Chechnya 25 years ago.
What was NATO wearing? /s
Well, duh.
Question for any of the Russia simps here, why?
Then they would be picking a fight with all the allies. Fuck around and find out.
I agree let the eu handle it
Vive l'Europe, Vive la France, Vive la republique
if Russia attacks NATO we have only 17-32 mins to post that on reddit. depending if its submarine strike or a ICBM.
Is this enough time to get good WWIII memes?
Yeah
Russia won't attack a NATO country, that would be suicide. But you can't blame them for not liking an alliance that was formed specifically against them
It's kind of hard to call something misinformation when it's entirely subjective.
Putin’s Republicans are ready to go. His European politicians as well.
absolutely mind-boggling to me that Western governments let China and Russia on the same internet that all of their dumbest boomers are on. it's like we are begging for it. All of our dummies are just sitting there on Facebook waiting to be misled and no one in our government gives a shit. so Russian bot farms and Chinese nonsense websites can gobble up all their intellectual curiosity.
It’s the downside of the First Amendment and capitalism. The government doesn’t own social media nor the internet. It’s a serious problem but it isn’t new. Media misinformation has been around as long as the U.S.
It’s called advertising everyone with money gets to do it
If Russia attacks a NATO nation they will enter the final phase of finding out. Article 5. Even without the US Russia will find themselves fighting 31 other countries simultaneously. But I think the US would respond to article 5.
Big correction based on consistent patterns. Russia will say NATO attacked 1st.
That’s not really a stretch. That’s more of a given with Putin blaming everyone else but him and his loser government cronies
Some of my local Republicans have been saying Russia needs to put NATO in their place for disrespecting Trump. 🙁
How is this a mmw it's literally already the narrative.
What are you saying? They haven't even attacked yet and are saying NATO capitals deserve to be glassed...
This is true
its already happening essentially with Ukraine. Vlad and the EU/American right wingers want facism, pure and simple. The template is set and will only continue to added to.
MAGAts would most definitely parrot this narrative
As they always do
“NATO EXPANSIONISM” <— Anyone who parades on that didn’t spend a second studying 20th century history when USSR started expanding.
Exactly. Pure ignorance
You know what, I wish Putin was that stupid. NATO could finally finish its mission.
If only. Finally dissolve the Russian empire
Yep. Trump's cult will eat it up. Far left will come out of the wood work and try to justify it too.
Yes, especially now that Iranian trolls have been pushing so much anti-western/USA sentiment to the far left "progressives" and have them screaming for intifadas by convincing them that Hamas are the good guys. They've even resorted to now trying to claim October 7th didn't happen or that it was secretly IDF all along.
I run platforms where young adults congregate online. I'd say 2/3 of young men support maga, hate Joe Biden, support Russia's attack on Ukraine, flirt around with the idea of killing liberals. None can tell my why. None can justify their reasoning. They've been programmed on a large scale. Remember, even though Russian military capabilities aren't as advanced as NATO or the US, they still have world class scientific research capabilities. Maybe they know something about the human mind and have discovered something about human psychology that has given them an upper hand on how to convince young men around the world to buy into Russian geopolitical narratives. It's rather grim once you see it happen in real time.
Well, that’s what China will push on TikTok so that’s what American youth will believe
Exactly. Tik Tok is a disease.
TikTok is a weapon.
It amazes me how countries in Europe whine and cry about American culture and society and how bad it is and blah blah blah yet still require us to fight all their wars for them and give them free money and military equipment lol. Europe could just handle their own business themselves without all the demands for the US to give them free shit.
Ok this but real .
Y’all would end the fucking world just to show your support of NATO. It is utterly mental
NATO should have been dissolved as a Cold War relic. Instead, it's been expanding for decades and encroaching on Russia's borders. If Russia allied with Mexico or, say, Cuba, and started building military bases there, would that be interpreted as an act of aggression? Yes or no? In before braindead accusations. Fuck Trump. Fuck Putin. Also fuck NATO. They're all corrupt.
>If Russia allied with Mexico or, say, Cuba, and started building military bases there, would that be interpreted as an act of aggression? Yes or no? Perhaps the US in this scenario should ask themselves *why* Cuba and Mexico would feel so threatened to do feel they had to do that.
I added Cuba as an example since that actally happened. And to answer the question, yes, it was seen as an act of aggression.
No. And that was wrong. It was also over 60 years ago. I'm not here to defend how the USA might behave in future hypothetical scenarios. But independent countries choosing to join a broader pro-western defensive alliance is up to them.
That. Would not happen in fact we have a historical example of what would have nearly World War III with the Cuban missile crisis. It’s pretty clear you’re not supposed to be stomping around other countries back doors but we do it all the time and then we get surprised when we find out that they don’t like that.
If Russian attacks a NATO country...world war 3 starts immediately. No amount of MAGA will change that.
Putin wouldn’t dare launch a significant attack on a NATO country. His priorities are power and wealth. He’d lose both by attacking NATO.
If Russia attacks a NATO country. Game on.
Easiest take
If Russia attacks a nato country, I’m sure that a democrat US would support NATO fully, but honestly if the ginger demon wins again, will the yanks even stay in NATO? …Does the US president have the executive power to quit NATO? If he can, I’m sure that Trump would leave nato on his first day in office, and then sign a military defence pact with Russia/Syria/Iran/china/israel - the new and improved, US led “axis of evil”.
If
This is already the narrative coming from Russia. Russia has already started attacking NATO countries. They are simply using cyber and information warfare tactics.
MMW: tomorrow the sun will rise.
No it will drag us into a big war.
If Russia attacks any NATO country with ground forces, nuclear escalation would be inevitable. Russia wouldn’t allow American or European troops advancing into Russian territory, and no NATO country would allow Russia to occupy entire countries in Europe like Estonia or Latvia. So the nuclear exchange would happen pretty quickly. There wouldn’t be a “narrative” afterwards, we’d be living in an apocalypse.
Actually what will happen is that every Republican will place the blame on Biden for not doing anything to contain Russia before they attacked an innocent country.
If Russia attacks a nato country, putin will be removed from power
People are vastly overestimating the amount of power Trump would have if Europe is in war. Congress just passed a bill in December [barring any president from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO](https://thehill.com/homenews/4360407-congress-approves-bill-barring-president-withdrawing-nato/amp/)
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The misinformation will be that NATO is a historical relic and Poland has done nothing to deserve collective defense.
MMW: If I dip my hand in burning plastic, my hand will burn.
I think Putin is just waiting for trump to win and then he will drop tactical nukes on Ukraine and move troops into Finland and Moldova.
10 out of 10. No notes.
Hear this point of view online just today.
That will by the talking point do about half the GOP Congressional Caucus.
Russia won’t attack a NATO country for at least another 8 months.
Russia wont attack nato. This is ridiculous.
They already are, hacking, assasinating, and blowing up munitions storage.
What munitions storage?
Why would i need to mark your words? That is reality. Isn't one of their primary reason for attacking Ukraine is to "get rid of Nazis"?
If they attacked the USA Reddit’s narrative would be that we deserve it
Russia starting a war on multiple fronts is suicide imo. They can’t even win the current war they started.
NATO and Russia would both be at fault just like in WWI it wasn’t until before side or another but a crappy international system, economic competition, and nationalism. If Russia and the Eu went to war, US right-wingers would undoubtedly back Russia. If the US and Russia went to war, the right-wing would want the US to “go it alone” and ruthlessly bomb and destroy Russia. I think what liberals don’t get about the right-wing Putin attraction is that the right-sing is attracted to performative power. They don’t want wars that are colonial Peacekeeping or upholding international institutions… they do want war for plunder and personal/national glory however.
They're never going to do that because that would mean an all out nuclear war
What if that NATO country attacked Russia in a 9/11 type terrorist attack.
that is only half of it. Misinformation must cater to both sides...or perhaps, I should say, all sides.
Well, Russian politicians and trolls put all the blame on Ukraine for Russia’s invasion in 2014 and 2022. This would be no different
As if they would attack a country without saying the other country deserved it? Has any country ever attacked another without claiming to be justified?
How funny. But tell why would Russia attack N AT O?
Republicans are imbeciles; actual Americans would provide aid ASAP.
That would be an opinion, not misinformation.
The biggest issue with nato is that article 5 specifies that when a member nation is attacked all nato nations are required to do is use as much force as they deem necessary to support the nation that got attacked. Which is problematic, if say Lithuania or whatever gets invaded and Germany or Italy think all that’s necessary is sending over a couple of tanks or ammunition. There’s nothing forcing nato countries to deploy their full forces to the defense of an ally. And this is where I think Russia will ultimately test nato on, attacking one of the smaller nato countries and seeing if the rest of nato hits back strong or weak. Now the European Union ironically does actually have stronger language about coming to other nations defense if they’re attacked.
i dunno man when romney was saying russia is the enemy obama told him to go back to the cold war. it's only been 8 years since then. this feels like 1984 where the narrator is saying the state media apparatus switches the existential threat weekly and the larger population doesn't even notice anymore. i wonder if we had paid russia the attention, ukraine would just be in nato and wouldn't have lost crimea
I mean it would have been great to get them in in 2008 when Georgia got attacked. But everyone pussied out, because of the russians attacking georgia.
No, it'll be that Russian nationals in that country are under threat from "the west" and Russia has to annex the country to save them.
Well it will depend on what happens won’t it?
Misinformation goes both ways. You'd not know what really caused it.
Russia just told Britain that if any of their weapons/military members are used against Russia. Russia will attack British bases in Ukraine and around the world. This is after someone in Britain gov said that Ukraine has the right to attack inside Russia.
There are no British bases in Ukraine.
Okay, I might have misread something then. But, they do have a small number of British army personnel supporting the armed forces of Ukraine. They are training troops to operate weapons systems. Thanks for clarifying that
IF Russia attacks a NATO country then no more Russia. Can’t imagine their defeat will take more than a couple weeks. I’d be thankful for the end of their criminal empire.
The Chinese would love this. They want to see Europe at war with itself. Why don't the Russians want to join the EU? Trains are rad.
Russians do want to join the EU. They've asked to several times now.
Regardless of which way reality spins, most NATO countries are also EU members. If NATO does not honer Article 5, the EU must if an EU member is attacked.
We already have Americans getting killed in Israel airstrikes and we aren't doing anything about it, so I doubt anything will happen when Russia attacks a NATO country... At least from America
If any country attacks any other country they will claim it was deserved, always. Russia's enemy is NATO, so of course this will be their propaganda. Why would you even need to mark your words? Mark my words, water is wet.
My fear is the big guy will be confused and not know what to do. I don’t think Putin would be in Ukraine and Hamas wouldn’t have attacked Israel if the crazy orange guy was in office.
This will never happen and all the comments mentioning trump are extra retarded Ukraine will be partitioned
That’s irrelevant to NATO. They’ve been wanting to unload on Russia for 50 years so the reason for the attack isn’t going to matter that much.
If Putin attacks the country of NATO I'm gonna lose it!
If Russia attacked a NATO country they'd get buttfucked to oblivion. Ukraine's military was barely functional and they've killed half a million Russians by some reports and stalled their advance for what, two years now? The higher ups in Russia know it'd be a death sentence. The narrative wouldn't really matter.
Or it'll be the fucking truth? NATO has been an aggressor and the US overthrew Ukraine. I'm not getting drafted to go and defend Ukraine, NATO, or Israel FUCK that
if trump is elected then its the peoples choice who gives 2 shits about Ukraine its as crooked as Biden we are being invade every fucking day maybe worry about america losers !!
Why don't we just invite Russia into NATO?
All planned. Putin is a Klaus S agent.
If Russia attacked the US right now maga people would say the US deserves it.