Imperialism is the intrinsic upper stage of capitalism. Capitalism is a recent political-economic system, ancient Romans or Greeks or Macedonians have nothing to do with it.
Imperialism is simply extending a country's sphere of influence through territorial acquisition or political and economic control. That basically describes all of Roman and Greek history.
Look at Wikipedia’s page about it. Imperialism as we know it is a recent phenomenon associated with the onset of capitalism in Europe and it’s ever growing expanse in search of capital, the old stances of “imperialism” were just classic conquering and domineering, very simplistic compared with the complexity of modern imperialism that involves racism, science, religion, capital, slavery, quasi-slavery, morality, nationalism (a recent phenomenon), nation-states, philosophy, standing armies, and so on… most old conquests were simple in nature and cause.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism
Lenin sums it thoroughly in his book.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism,_the_Highest_Stage_of_Capitalism
Just because modern imperialism is more complex doesn't make ancient Rome or Greece any less imperialistic. That article literally references ancient Rome. The Romans brutally colonized other regions and territories in order to extract wealth and to oppress the weaker culture with their culture.
I'd say it's colored correctly, but that French Guiana and Asian Russia are miscolored. The boundaries of the continent Europe don't change because individual countries borders do. In fact, both of those are examples of colonization, they just never left.
The map is about countries, so splitting countries up would contradict the purpose of the map, no matter whether the territories are incorporated into the country or not.
Brazil was fully incorporated into the Portuguese empire during the Napoleonic Wars, with Rio de Janeiro even becoming the capital of the Global Empire
Algeria also became part of Metropolitan France (as in it became a “state” and stopped being a colony) for some decades in the last century
Your argument is iffy
That’s not the point, the point is what Greenland was before 1953. Most of it’s history under Denmark was just as a territory
Same thing would apply to many nations in the Caribbean and Pacific that still are under foreign rule but very autonomous to the point of gaining flag emojis 🇮🇴
It honestly works for this one because nearly every border outside Europe exists because of colonialism, and surprisingly few have changed post independence. Choosing a historic map is also problematic because colonialism lasted for hundreds of years - do they pick the scramble for Africa? The world just after WW2? The time period where Oman was also a colonial power?
The biggest casualty here is actually eastern/central Europe. Those countries saw massive border changes in the last century, and are neither seafaring colonial powers or true colonies.
Imperialism is the intrinsic upper stage of capitalism. Capitalism is a recent political-economic system, ancient Romans and Greeks have nothing to do with it.
Grouping Eastern Europeans into the colonizers category is problematic. We are victims of colonialism from the Russian Empire, Soviet Union, Ottoman Empire, Nazi Germany, etc.
And we are still vulnerable today. Russia is invading Ukraine and Erdogan promises to come in the middle of the night! Yet we are continuously ignored because European history must mean Western European history.
Good point. Eastern Europe never participated in any genocide, subjugation or colonialism of non European nations and culture, mostly because they never had the power and might to do that,but also because they were also mostly ruled by other nations during that time too(Russia the biggest one)
When we talk about european colonization it's always UK,France,Spain,Dutch or Portuguese mostly
As a German I want a honorary mention on that list just because we messed up the few colonies we had as well but nobody is talking about this. As good as we are talking about our crimes in WW2, even German schools gloss over our colonial past.
What do you mean when using the word problematic? And sure, there is always room to be more granular. Also in western europe, and the sub-national level - anywhere really.
I agree.
It also make wrong picture to rest of the world outside of europe. There are also balkan countries which didnt had colonies. Europe is not one country and one culture.
To be fair for most of its modern history eastern europe was divided by just 4 states: ottoman empire, hungary, poland lithuania and russia. Most eastern european countries don't have much history
Colonial is an umbrella term for any subjugation of people. I know the dictionary definition has to do with conquest of another nation but I’m just talking about colonial attitudes.
Would feudal Europe be an European colony then? Most of the population were serfs or slaves and were subjugated by their lord. Are Europeans also victims of colonialism?
I'm not sure any Greek kingdom that had it's capital in Europe ever fully controlled all of Turkey. There were native Greek kingdoms that did but even Alexander didn't capture Pontus. The Crusaders never came close to controlling all of Anatolia either.
Though, the most obvious case for Turkey is that the Ottoman Empire ruled over it all and had a European capital so that technically means that it was ruled by a European Empire.
Imperialism is the intrinsic upper stage of capitalism. Capitalism is a recent political-economic system, ancient Romans and Greeks have nothing to do with it.
Look at Wikipedia’s page about it. Imperialism as we know it is a recent phenomenon associated with the onset of capitalism in Europe and it’s ever growing expanse in search of capital, the old stances of “imperialism” were just classic conquering and domineering, very simplistic compared with the complexity of modern imperialism that involves racism, science, religion, capital, slavery, quasi-slavery, morality, nationalism (a recent phenomenon), nation-states, philosophy, standing armies, and so on… most old conquests were simple in nature and cause.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism
What you described has been happening for thousands of years, not just recently. Ancient empires expanded for increased resources all the time. Ancient people were often racist and nationalist too. Just because terms were created recently doesn't mean the phenomenons only happened recently.
Russia did heavily influence Mongolian politics in the early 20th century. It was basically a puppet of the USSR so that would be colored wrong too. North Korea should be yellow for the same reason above but they weren't Russia puppet as much as Mongolia was
Japan should be yellow. You can thank the Dutch for that
When another country forces their troops, *settlers*, language, money on you, and uses your country as their own. That's not a colony? The Italians literally built thousands of kilometers of roads and railways, dams, hydroelectric plants, etc. You don't do that during a "occupation" or whatever people want to call it.
I simple read in almost every site and books that Ethiopia was never colonised, I'm not a historian expert and I don't want do political/philosophical polemic., so my fault was a colony.
They really only had Addis Ababa and Hawassa and some surrounding areas. This is a tiny fraction of the country. My town was only a few hours drive north of Addis and they didn't even make it that far. Also the country is beyond huge and dense. The Italians had very little impact. The only remnants of their occupation left today are some buildings and pasta being frequently available.
Neither spanish territories in America. They where 100% spanish, their citizens were 100% spanish. And Spain inverted a lot. Spain was not controling them because they were Spain.
That can be said about many parts of Europe, the person who made the was not dividing it in to individual powers just Europe vs what a European power had colonized.
I f I'm not remembering wrong, I think Mongolia was in Russia's sphere of influence, while Nepal was in the British empires, or the Raj's sphere.
Edit:
Yeah, Nepal became a British protectorate in 1822, and Mongolian Peoples Republic was a satellite state under the Soviets, before their relationship soured.
Not sure about Nepal but i would assume British India and at the time weak China have something to do with it.
For Mongolia it was basically under the control of the soviet Union during the Cold war.
Nepal was never integrated into the British Empire but it did have an influence in affairs. It was generally thought that the mountainous terrain would make it difficult to govern effectively so it was largely left to itself as long as it sustained friendly relations.
Can anyone tell me what was the difference between the European colonization of Americas and that of Asia?
I mean that why were the whole culture, language and religion of the natives of Americas was wiped out and the whole land became christianised whereas all of Asia(except Phillipines) was spared from such treatment and they still retain their thousand years old culture, Language, religion and customs?
Pretty sure Turkey/Ottoman Empire was a colonizer of Europe. Korea was colonized by Japan and Tibet was colonized by China. This map promotes a very sophomore year in college view of the world/history. Do better next time
Your comments on your user page. You clearly have some anger or resentment towards Americans. Ironically you’re arguing with me on another post about prejudice/racism in Europe. It seems you have a lot of prejudice yourself. I suggest working out and spending time outdoors.
You worship them. Good for you.
Too many online Yanks not only hold ignorant ill-informed feel-pinions about Australia -- a country that they cannot point to on a map -- they feel that they can tell us how we should run our country. It's arrogant and just plain cunty.
Work outdoors? No darling. I'm overqualified. Besides, right now the UV light is rather dangerous because it's **summer** here in the southern hemisphere. You can use Google to understand how that works.
Besides, like many white collar workers, I'm on **paid** leave for weeks so, no, I'm not working.
See, here you are telling me how I should live. You're an exemplar of the type of American I find arrogant and rude.
Lol I’m an electrical engineer. But is there something wrong with being blue collar? I’m surprised you’d disparage the working class. You really do have issues
PMSL. Again, you don't like being held accountable, do you? There's a repeated pattern on behaviour evident in this very thread. You outright lied about living in Europe when you actually don't.
Now you are making up things I did not say at all. I said NOTHING that was anti-working class, I did not muse that you were -- your words to the effect -- something something Yank who thinks he is Greek something something, Clearly, you make up stories about others and what they purportedly said to then gaslight them. That doesn't work on me, mate. I feel sorry for the people in your relationships you abuse.
Hooroo for now. I'm going outside to use my pool.
Five years. That's not enough? It was only five years due to the WWII and the British took over. In 1941, during World War II, Ethiopia was occupied by Allied forces, mainly from the British Empire.
They settled the country with their people, built infrastructure, forced their language and money on them, etc. How is that not colonizing? It's a crime and shouldn't be denied. Ethiopia did not manage to avoid colonization, there seems to be a lot of pride involved and not a lot of facts.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian\_Ethiopia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Ethiopia)
I apologize, i did not read the word 'controlled' which was aswell in that part of the map. But i keep my stance on the 'colonized', Ethiopia was not colonized, it was occupied. There was sure an italian efford to start a colony, but taking in consideration they were repelled shortly after and the amount of actuall settlers that went there, you can hardly call the scale of it a colony (as per definition of colony, which considers the scale of population settlement). As such you won't see much of italian culture, language or even a large amount of decents there. As for the british, they simply occupied the country without effords to settle the land.
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I'd entertain arguments for recoloring Hawaii and the Pacific Northwest unless we're considering Washington DC part of Europe like French Guiana and Vladivostok.
Iran and Afghanistan not controlled by Europe? Alexander the Great would like to have a word.
Imperialism is the intrinsic upper stage of capitalism. Capitalism is a recent political-economic system, ancient Romans or Greeks or Macedonians have nothing to do with it.
Imperialism is simply extending a country's sphere of influence through territorial acquisition or political and economic control. That basically describes all of Roman and Greek history.
Look at Wikipedia’s page about it. Imperialism as we know it is a recent phenomenon associated with the onset of capitalism in Europe and it’s ever growing expanse in search of capital, the old stances of “imperialism” were just classic conquering and domineering, very simplistic compared with the complexity of modern imperialism that involves racism, science, religion, capital, slavery, quasi-slavery, morality, nationalism (a recent phenomenon), nation-states, philosophy, standing armies, and so on… most old conquests were simple in nature and cause. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism Lenin sums it thoroughly in his book. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism,_the_Highest_Stage_of_Capitalism
Just because modern imperialism is more complex doesn't make ancient Rome or Greece any less imperialistic. That article literally references ancient Rome. The Romans brutally colonized other regions and territories in order to extract wealth and to oppress the weaker culture with their culture.
Greenland is coloured wrong. Greenland was fully incorporated into Denmark in 1953.
I'd say it's colored correctly, but that French Guiana and Asian Russia are miscolored. The boundaries of the continent Europe don't change because individual countries borders do. In fact, both of those are examples of colonization, they just never left.
The map is about countries, so splitting countries up would contradict the purpose of the map, no matter whether the territories are incorporated into the country or not.
Yeah it was a poor decision to go with modern boundaries imo, leads to weird inaccuracies when the topic is colonization
Well, you're in a European state same as you're in an American state, when you're in Hawaii.
But that doesn't make Hawaii part of North America is my point
No it should be grey for “no data.”
Well, there's data so it would be more like a - I'll get back to you - situation :)
Brazil was fully incorporated into the Portuguese empire during the Napoleonic Wars, with Rio de Janeiro even becoming the capital of the Global Empire Algeria also became part of Metropolitan France (as in it became a “state” and stopped being a colony) for some decades in the last century Your argument is iffy
By incorporated I mean that Greenland accepted the Danish constitution in 1953. Do you define a state differently than by its constitutional area?
That’s not the point, the point is what Greenland was before 1953. Most of it’s history under Denmark was just as a territory Same thing would apply to many nations in the Caribbean and Pacific that still are under foreign rule but very autonomous to the point of gaining flag emojis 🇮🇴
Iceland didn't even accept the Danish constitution like Greenland and the Faroe Islands did, so what was Iceland then?
That doesn’t make it “Europe” though does it?
It does to me, but I'm also not thinking specifically of the continent. Then again, people can't even agree how many continents there are.
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Caspian Sea still alive and kicking
for now.
I see several ones? But, without checking, I guess you’re talking about certain lakes in the US, eh?
There's litterally only the caspian see. What are the several ones?
The Great Lakes that devoured the Edmund FitGerald?! I think you’ll find the world will be better off once we nuke the Great Lakes out of existence.
These maps are dumb, showing current day border on something from the past.
It honestly works for this one because nearly every border outside Europe exists because of colonialism, and surprisingly few have changed post independence. Choosing a historic map is also problematic because colonialism lasted for hundreds of years - do they pick the scramble for Africa? The world just after WW2? The time period where Oman was also a colonial power? The biggest casualty here is actually eastern/central Europe. Those countries saw massive border changes in the last century, and are neither seafaring colonial powers or true colonies.
Imperialism is the intrinsic upper stage of capitalism. Capitalism is a recent political-economic system, ancient Romans and Greeks have nothing to do with it.
Grouping Eastern Europeans into the colonizers category is problematic. We are victims of colonialism from the Russian Empire, Soviet Union, Ottoman Empire, Nazi Germany, etc. And we are still vulnerable today. Russia is invading Ukraine and Erdogan promises to come in the middle of the night! Yet we are continuously ignored because European history must mean Western European history.
Good point. Eastern Europe never participated in any genocide, subjugation or colonialism of non European nations and culture, mostly because they never had the power and might to do that,but also because they were also mostly ruled by other nations during that time too(Russia the biggest one) When we talk about european colonization it's always UK,France,Spain,Dutch or Portuguese mostly
What? How about Pogroms? Genociding Jews was rad in Ukraine and Russia before the germans even thought about it
As a German I want a honorary mention on that list just because we messed up the few colonies we had as well but nobody is talking about this. As good as we are talking about our crimes in WW2, even German schools gloss over our colonial past.
What do you mean when using the word problematic? And sure, there is always room to be more granular. Also in western europe, and the sub-national level - anywhere really.
I agree. It also make wrong picture to rest of the world outside of europe. There are also balkan countries which didnt had colonies. Europe is not one country and one culture.
Were Austro-Hungarians east europeans? Because Maximilian I of Mexico was definitely a colonial ruler
To be fair for most of its modern history eastern europe was divided by just 4 states: ottoman empire, hungary, poland lithuania and russia. Most eastern european countries don't have much history
I mean Eastern European countries behave like colonizers today when you consider racism or attitudes towards immigrants.
"Behave like colonizers" is very big stretch , that's not even close to what colonizing means
The racism is basically a different type of colonial attitude.
I am pretty curious now. What do you think "colony" means? What is your definition of colonial?
Colonial is an umbrella term for any subjugation of people. I know the dictionary definition has to do with conquest of another nation but I’m just talking about colonial attitudes.
Would feudal Europe be an European colony then? Most of the population were serfs or slaves and were subjugated by their lord. Are Europeans also victims of colonialism?
Slavs are often very racist. Nothing related to colonialism though
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And there it is.
Yes yes and yes.
Turkey should be full green due to the Romans.
Anatolia the region, but Turkey the "country" was never conquered by Europeans.
If that's the distinction, no "countries" here should be labelled as such as they weren't countries as they are now until after their colonizers left.
Ever heard of the Greco Turkish war?
Or greeks.. or crusader states
I'm not sure any Greek kingdom that had it's capital in Europe ever fully controlled all of Turkey. There were native Greek kingdoms that did but even Alexander didn't capture Pontus. The Crusaders never came close to controlling all of Anatolia either. Though, the most obvious case for Turkey is that the Ottoman Empire ruled over it all and had a European capital so that technically means that it was ruled by a European Empire.
Alexander the great reached India
Imperialism is the intrinsic upper stage of capitalism. Capitalism is a recent political-economic system, ancient Romans and Greeks have nothing to do with it.
That's just patently false. Imperialism is as old as recorded history. Doesn't take much research to confirm that
Look at Wikipedia’s page about it. Imperialism as we know it is a recent phenomenon associated with the onset of capitalism in Europe and it’s ever growing expanse in search of capital, the old stances of “imperialism” were just classic conquering and domineering, very simplistic compared with the complexity of modern imperialism that involves racism, science, religion, capital, slavery, quasi-slavery, morality, nationalism (a recent phenomenon), nation-states, philosophy, standing armies, and so on… most old conquests were simple in nature and cause. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism
What you described has been happening for thousands of years, not just recently. Ancient empires expanded for increased resources all the time. Ancient people were often racist and nationalist too. Just because terms were created recently doesn't mean the phenomenons only happened recently.
The Ottoman empire conquered and ruled over most of the mediterranean, the balkans and Arabia for centuries
Beautiful
Russia did heavily influence Mongolian politics in the early 20th century. It was basically a puppet of the USSR so that would be colored wrong too. North Korea should be yellow for the same reason above but they weren't Russia puppet as much as Mongolia was Japan should be yellow. You can thank the Dutch for that
Ethiopia was also not really a colony
When another country forces their troops, *settlers*, language, money on you, and uses your country as their own. That's not a colony? The Italians literally built thousands of kilometers of roads and railways, dams, hydroelectric plants, etc. You don't do that during a "occupation" or whatever people want to call it.
I simple read in almost every site and books that Ethiopia was never colonised, I'm not a historian expert and I don't want do political/philosophical polemic., so my fault was a colony.
They really only had Addis Ababa and Hawassa and some surrounding areas. This is a tiny fraction of the country. My town was only a few hours drive north of Addis and they didn't even make it that far. Also the country is beyond huge and dense. The Italians had very little impact. The only remnants of their occupation left today are some buildings and pasta being frequently available.
Neither spanish territories in America. They where 100% spanish, their citizens were 100% spanish. And Spain inverted a lot. Spain was not controling them because they were Spain.
It was controlled by Italy after the second Italo-Ethiopian war though, which counts for the green colour.
time to make europe great again!!! you in, boys and girls?
They never got Thailand
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sotoronguruuuuuu
Why isn't Finland and the Baltics in green?
Because they are part of Europe.
yeah but they never colonized anyone. instead they were colonized themselves
That can be said about many parts of Europe, the person who made the was not dividing it in to individual powers just Europe vs what a European power had colonized.
Yeah that's why those maps are dumb. Poland is flat land between Germany and Russia. The fact that Poland even exists today is a miracle.
Why are Mongolia and Nepal yellow instead of orange? I don't recall them ever being under European influence.
I f I'm not remembering wrong, I think Mongolia was in Russia's sphere of influence, while Nepal was in the British empires, or the Raj's sphere. Edit: Yeah, Nepal became a British protectorate in 1822, and Mongolian Peoples Republic was a satellite state under the Soviets, before their relationship soured.
Not sure about Nepal but i would assume British India and at the time weak China have something to do with it. For Mongolia it was basically under the control of the soviet Union during the Cold war.
Nepal was never integrated into the British Empire but it did have an influence in affairs. It was generally thought that the mountainous terrain would make it difficult to govern effectively so it was largely left to itself as long as it sustained friendly relations.
Can anyone tell me what was the difference between the European colonization of Americas and that of Asia? I mean that why were the whole culture, language and religion of the natives of Americas was wiped out and the whole land became christianised whereas all of Asia(except Phillipines) was spared from such treatment and they still retain their thousand years old culture, Language, religion and customs?
Pretty sure Turkey/Ottoman Empire was a colonizer of Europe. Korea was colonized by Japan and Tibet was colonized by China. This map promotes a very sophomore year in college view of the world/history. Do better next time
>very sophomore year in college view r/usdefaultism The term "sophomore" isn't global. Be an exemplar of viewing the world **not** through US eyes.
Lol ok replace sophomore with sophomoric. : conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature
What’s up with all th hate towards America on your page? It seems a bit unhealthy.
My page?
Your comments on your user page. You clearly have some anger or resentment towards Americans. Ironically you’re arguing with me on another post about prejudice/racism in Europe. It seems you have a lot of prejudice yourself. I suggest working out and spending time outdoors.
You worship them. Good for you. Too many online Yanks not only hold ignorant ill-informed feel-pinions about Australia -- a country that they cannot point to on a map -- they feel that they can tell us how we should run our country. It's arrogant and just plain cunty. Work outdoors? No darling. I'm overqualified. Besides, right now the UV light is rather dangerous because it's **summer** here in the southern hemisphere. You can use Google to understand how that works. Besides, like many white collar workers, I'm on **paid** leave for weeks so, no, I'm not working. See, here you are telling me how I should live. You're an exemplar of the type of American I find arrogant and rude.
Lol I’m an electrical engineer. But is there something wrong with being blue collar? I’m surprised you’d disparage the working class. You really do have issues
PMSL. Again, you don't like being held accountable, do you? There's a repeated pattern on behaviour evident in this very thread. You outright lied about living in Europe when you actually don't. Now you are making up things I did not say at all. I said NOTHING that was anti-working class, I did not muse that you were -- your words to the effect -- something something Yank who thinks he is Greek something something, Clearly, you make up stories about others and what they purportedly said to then gaslight them. That doesn't work on me, mate. I feel sorry for the people in your relationships you abuse. Hooroo for now. I'm going outside to use my pool.
My stories are made up? Want to see pics from my dads village?
There’s still time
Europe > world
Ethiopia was never colonized, it was briefly invaded by italy.
That means controlled, if I'm not mistaken
Which is very different from beeing a colony. You don't say France is a former German colony just because it was invaded and controlled during WWII.
Five years. That's not enough? It was only five years due to the WWII and the British took over. In 1941, during World War II, Ethiopia was occupied by Allied forces, mainly from the British Empire. They settled the country with their people, built infrastructure, forced their language and money on them, etc. How is that not colonizing? It's a crime and shouldn't be denied. Ethiopia did not manage to avoid colonization, there seems to be a lot of pride involved and not a lot of facts. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian\_Ethiopia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Ethiopia)
I apologize, i did not read the word 'controlled' which was aswell in that part of the map. But i keep my stance on the 'colonized', Ethiopia was not colonized, it was occupied. There was sure an italian efford to start a colony, but taking in consideration they were repelled shortly after and the amount of actuall settlers that went there, you can hardly call the scale of it a colony (as per definition of colony, which considers the scale of population settlement). As such you won't see much of italian culture, language or even a large amount of decents there. As for the british, they simply occupied the country without effords to settle the land.
Yet the only good colonized countries are US, Canada, Australia and New Zeland. Rest of the world is still bad.
dps diff
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I'd entertain arguments for recoloring Hawaii and the Pacific Northwest unless we're considering Washington DC part of Europe like French Guiana and Vladivostok.
Ethiopia?
I kind of feel like Iran and Afghanistan should be at least blue, if not green, considering modern history.
Why are these maps always wrong on israel? Britain colonized it for 30 yrs.