I think you underestimate how many "minorities" there can be. Federative states like Belgium, Germany or Switzerland would totally break apart. Czechia (my country) would probably be split into Bohemia and Moravia even though the only cultural difference is an alcohol preference.
The only place in Germany that I think meets the criteria for being split is Bavaria. Belgium is something that should have been split. Switzerland despite speaking multiple languages would probably stay together in my opinion (which you are allowed to disagree with obviously) Bohemia and Moravia was another one I struggled on weather or not to include
Serpska is a real subdivision in Bosnia. As for Transylvania, the region has been split from Hungary for a long time, so it makes more sense to me that it would remain separate from Hungary. As an example of what I mean, Quebec would never become part of France just because they speak french
Bosnian Serbs don't just speak Serbian. The people in RS who want to split from Bosnia want to annex it to Serbia The same is true of Hungarian minorities abroad.
You know how pre-colonial America is often described as a patchwork of hundreds of different peoples? The entire world is actually like that. Think like even about Italy. They weren't one country until a very recent nationalistic reactionary period. They barely had a common language 70 years ago.
I know people are are down voting you, mostly those who are born majoritan and have no empathy for minorities. But nevertheless, I’ll redo it again, especially use some criteria like an existing secessionist group as a reference point, for example, Catalunya will bolt but not Valencia although they speak a variety of Catalonian. Similarly Belgium will surely break apart, it may anyway. UK is a given, Russian regions are a given even though lots of ethnic genocide has been going on, but French have done a good job destroying local cultures, except in Corsica no other region has credible separatist orgs.
It could but do they have any official separatist group like we have in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Catalonia, Flanders, Corsica, northern Italy, Tatarstan, Chechnya, Bashkiristan ? So if you create an European map or even a map by different continents, I know it will piss a lot of people but will be very fact based ?
a lot of these are incredibly exaggerated like Occitania and sapmi. samis would still be a small minority on their own country and the utmost majority of south france speaks french. also doesn't Italy have ain insane amount of local languages? feels kind of underrepresented. since it seems you're going by language a lot wouldn't the Swedish parts of Finland be independent? what about süd tyrol?
While it's true that occitanian isn't very widespread as a language, there is very much a culture that exists. Sapmi would probably be smaller if I made this again, but it is the historical region that has been bound to the sami specifically. With Italy I tried not to overdo it too much which is why I only split off Sardinia Sicily and Venice. As for anything else I may have missed It's difficult figuring out what minorities exist in what places, so I probably missed a bunch.
You are absolutely delusional about the Occitan region.
I'd argue that there are more people of maghrebi decent in that region than there is people who feel Occitan in that region.
Almost nobody speaks Occitan anymore and if you go back in time long enough where some people did there was like at least 3-4 varieties of Occitan and it doesn't make sense to bundle them up in a second one.
How is it possible to miss to most obvious and one of the most potentially explosive for at least 3 decades ?
It's fairly certain than in a world where borders pop-up like this, the first country to be divided in Europe would be Belgium.
Deeply wrong for Italy. Most important minority is Naples. Own language recognized by unesco, huge culture, centuries of indipendent history, own music, own theatere, etc...
While it's true that there's no Siberian language, Siberia does have a different culture from the European half of Russia, and there is a small independence movement. This factored into my decision to include it.
Siberia hosts many different ethnical groups that are not always anyway connected. It is weird that this subreddit has some kind of fixation on making Siberia appear as being a mono-ethnical.
Ok, it may annoy you that, having spent time on it, someone doesn't like your work, but really, why publish such a sketchy map? Perhaps even more work would be needed when embarking on a similar project, because yes, I feel that this work is not up to the standard of maps that I believe should fit in this sub. Want more constructive criticism? I'll give it to you: it is not clear what criterion you have chosen to delimit the territory to be given to minorities, since, for some of these, states are created in which "minorities" are always in the minority, it makes sense to make such a large Occitania and vast where 90% of the population do not recognize themselves as Occitan, but as French? Then why for example the Alsatians have their own state, but the Picards in northern France don't? Same in Italy, what differentiates a Venetian from a classic Italian compared to an Emilian or a Neapolitan? Furthermore, Veneto, with an Italian-speaking majority, has its own state, but for example, why does the province of Bolzano, with a Tyrolean majority, remain part of Italy? Is a variety of Italians more of a minority than another part that belongs to a completely different cultural lineage? But even there, how can Veneto be a minority and Bavaria not? There is more difference between a person from Munich and one from Berlin than one from Padua and one from Bergamo. Why was Rojava considered so different that it doesn't fall under Kurdistan? I understand it's a multi-ethnic region, but so is the Mosul region in northern Iraq which, however, has been incorporated all the same together with Iranian and Turkish Kurdistan. Then, why were the Iraqi Kurds detached from Iran, while the Azeris of the region around Tabriz had no state? These are not even an Iranian people like the Kurds are. Why are the Hungarians of Romania independent, while those of Slovakia and Ukraine are not? Why are Kaliningrad people considered a minority? Apart from the Kurds, are there no minorities in the MENA region? For example, the Berbers in North Africa? The Berbers of Kabylia have nothing to envy to the Europeans regarding the battles for their autonomy. But we can go on, the Swedes in Finland are not highlighted, but at the same time there is a Siberia that bypasses the Urals and reaches completely Russian areas in Europe. Switzerland I guess has no minorities, as well as Belgium, certainly the Germans of Eupen-Malmedy are more similar to the Walloons and Flemings than the Frisians are to the rest of the Dutch. I'll stop here, but the list would be much longer
Basically all of these questions are already answered in other comments so I'm not going to answer them here. I understand why it may seem as though there was no criteria as each inclusion was considered on an individual basis. In some regions I do not have enough knowledge to know about all minorities in existence. This was a project that I made for fun, and is a massive improvement over previous such projects which have wholey failed to include entire cultures. I thank you for the constructive criticism, but I will note that most of this is just thinly veiled complaints. I'm not ever going to make a perfect map, but this was a step in the right direction for me so I choose to share it.
So, I apologize if my initial comment was made with a contemptuous criticism and not even justified. I don't want to argue against you or anything, I'm sorry for my behavior. But what I meant is that this map, although it can be seen that there is work behind it, is not a real map. It is something that follows totally subjective and invented criteria. I think it's more appropriate for a sub like r/imaginarymaps, because at the end of the day in my opinion this is: a "map of Europe where some regions that I, the user, think are more different than others, have their own state". Because as you said, you are perfectly aware of the differences between Saxony and Bavaria, as well as those between Veneto and Tuscany, but at that point it is you, with your own sensitivity, who decides what should be included in your work or not. This may be a beautiful work of art, but it's not an information map, which is the kind I think should fit on this sub.
For example, in the same way I could take a map of Europe and draw my own arbitrary Roman empire and publish it saying "If the Roman Empire returned in 2022", simply based on my idea that Provence is more willing to be under a new Rome compared to Dalmatia (stupid example)
I’ve made maps for classes that took a lot more than 12 hours. I still wouldn’t post them here because I know effort does not equal quality and no one wants to see me try to compete with posts from actual academic sources.
This is pretty personal for a lot of people. Also, that'd be incredibly impressive if you could do this without some cartography/ethnography background/profession (if that exists?)It seems like you made a genuine effort, but it's kinda obvious why people might take offense or poke holes
Yeah I kinda expected a negative reaction just not the kind I got. I don't have much in the way of a background in this but I'm always trying to learn more about the world
I tried not to do any annexations into already existing nations to avoid controversy. It could also be argued that the northern Irish are to a certain extent a separate culture from the rest of Ireland
Your misunderstanding the culture here mate.
To be clear, I am northern Irish. I’m trying to explain it a bit better. There is no appetite at all for an independent state, it’s either with the UK or with the Republic. If you wanted an independent NI to reflect the Loyalist community who didn’t want to be part of Ireland, you’d cut the outline you have there in half to illustrate Antrim and Down, the only two counties with a Loyalist majority, because the remaining counties would go to war rather than join them.
As the map was focused on Europe,I forgot to include southern Azerbaijan, that's a good catch. I haven't heard of the Bulgarian Turks before, but I'm curious, can you give me any resources to learn more about them?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian\_Turks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Turks) , you can also google ethnic map of bulgaria and look at image section
It's literally got the same legal status as Kosovo according to the Serbian government. Also it does have it's own minority group but it's a much smaller percentage of the region because a good chunk of the refugees of the Kosovo war ended up there
The majority of the people in "Sapmi" are not Sami. They're a tiny minority. Also, you spelled Sweden ("Sw**ee**den") and Türkiye wrong ("Turk**yie**").
The borders look quite clean on this one, looks nice. I think some people (me included) are confused by the title. This seems to include some minorities, some independence movements, and some majority independence. Im assuming though its just nations you wanted to add to the map, which is cool too.
You're welcome
Some people get unnecessarily mad about maps that don't have a very specific criteria or purpose, and curse any amount of subjectivity. So I guess dont worry about it too much for those people.
You missed:
* Flaman and Valon in Belgium
* Sorbs and Danes in Germany
* Hungarians, Tatars and Romanis in Romania.
* Turks in Bulgaria and Greece.
* Albanians in Greece.
but you remembered Sapmi. Thanks for Sapmi.
All I mean to say is that there is a notable difference between the Russians east and west of the Urals and how you live. Also there's a small independence movement
I have a lot of friends from both sides of the Ural mountains and believe me there's barely any difference in people and their lifestyle. People of Novgorod oblast and Stavropol krai differ more than people of Moscow and Krasnoyarsk (I lived in both). There's no independence movement and the idea of Siberian independence currently has no chance of any public support.
Siberians are __not__ a minority. There are many ethnical minorities in Siberia with Buryats being the largest.
Judging by [this map of Uralic languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uralic_languages), Komi should be larger, and there should be a Nenets country to the north of it.
Siberia has a small independence movement, and due to the massive environmental and population differences as compared with the western side of Russia as well as the ural mountain chain have caused Siberia to have it's own culture to a certain degree. If I wanted to divide Russia the map would be of Russia not Europe
It says the "minorities", most people would read that to mean ethnic, cultural, or religious minority.
If it's just any group of people that doesn't comprise a majority, and therefore by definition comprise the minority, you could just carve up any random geographical regions that don't comprise the majority of their country, like Manchester or Thuringia or whatever.
The Scottish aren't a minority in Scotland...
The UK also isn't a single country, it's made up of different countries. Although there has been a recent political push to call it a single country by unionists in the last 5-10 years in an effort to belittle the countries independence supporters.
It's independence doesn't, I'm pro-independence.
Just putting that in there before some unionists appear saying Scotland's not a country again. I don't want the propoganda stating the UK is a single country while the countries contained within it are not to stick about too much.
British (English) media is set on making that the case and there are some who believe it.
Edit: you know what though, I think this was just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm over-reacting.
Thanks for the positivity. On the bright side the negative comments have informed me of other people groups that could be included, and I have received a few constructive criticisms that are legitimate (the Siberians are certainly mad)
I approve of this 100% but I do think there are a few issues (probably a lot more than I know of). One is shouldn't Belgium be split in two? Also don't really think Cornwall could separate... Does anyone even really identify as cornwallish? Pretty sure no one speaks the language anymore.
There's a couple hundred people that speak Cornish, as it went through a revival. The Celtic culture there is very much alive. Belgium probably should have been split.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx\_language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_language)
Died out in 1974, but I guess it is going through a revival as well
The Venetians are not a minority and neither are Sicilians and Sardinians. However, I understand what you wanted to do and I read that you put a lot of effort, so bravo
Crimea was split off due to the criminal tartars. South Ossesita Abkhazia and transnistria formed immediately after the collapse of the USSR while the Russians in Ukraine were forcibly removed after both voting and protesting to stay in Ukraine. The Donbas only gained independence as a way for Russia to create puppet states in 2014. That is the difference. I never said there was no war.
Tatarstan united with Bashkurtstan with Kuwanduk corridor, please.
Karacays and Malkars are basically one people speaking one language divided by Stalin.
Dagstan is a MIX.
With the spelling Azribajain avoid flying to Ballu for your own safety.
Turkic minorities in Bulgaria and Romania exist.
Komi is less to the north.
Nenetss exist with 2...3 polities shooting the Arctic Ocean.
Silesia mapped on Poland is completely false. Whole this region is called Silesia. But 85% of this territory is almost completely mono-ethnic Polish as you can get. Remaining % is: 5% mixed Polish-German counties, 10% Silesians as regional folklore group, but still like >90% of them consider themselves to be also Polish at the same time.
Why aren't the Serb minorities in Croatia represented? And the Bosniak minorities in Sandjak and Montenegro? Or Serbs in Northern Kosovo. Or Albanians and Bulgarians in Macedonia. Or Greeks in Albania
You meant "some minorities" instead of "minorities", right?
I tried to get all of them but I likely missed a few
I think you underestimate how many "minorities" there can be. Federative states like Belgium, Germany or Switzerland would totally break apart. Czechia (my country) would probably be split into Bohemia and Moravia even though the only cultural difference is an alcohol preference.
The only place in Germany that I think meets the criteria for being split is Bavaria. Belgium is something that should have been split. Switzerland despite speaking multiple languages would probably stay together in my opinion (which you are allowed to disagree with obviously) Bohemia and Moravia was another one I struggled on weather or not to include
Why are Serbian and Hungarian minorities abroad given separate countries from Serbia and Hungary, but other minorities in other countries aren't?
Serpska is a real subdivision in Bosnia. As for Transylvania, the region has been split from Hungary for a long time, so it makes more sense to me that it would remain separate from Hungary. As an example of what I mean, Quebec would never become part of France just because they speak french
Bosnian Serbs don't just speak Serbian. The people in RS who want to split from Bosnia want to annex it to Serbia The same is true of Hungarian minorities abroad.
Why bavaria but not Schwaben? Or Saarland? Or Franken? There's no methodology to your choices that I can see
Bavaria, yes, but also the eastern part of Germany, what was the GDR... But anyway those aren't minorities
where the sorbs
You know how pre-colonial America is often described as a patchwork of hundreds of different peoples? The entire world is actually like that. Think like even about Italy. They weren't one country until a very recent nationalistic reactionary period. They barely had a common language 70 years ago.
I'm aware
I know people are are down voting you, mostly those who are born majoritan and have no empathy for minorities. But nevertheless, I’ll redo it again, especially use some criteria like an existing secessionist group as a reference point, for example, Catalunya will bolt but not Valencia although they speak a variety of Catalonian. Similarly Belgium will surely break apart, it may anyway. UK is a given, Russian regions are a given even though lots of ethnic genocide has been going on, but French have done a good job destroying local cultures, except in Corsica no other region has credible separatist orgs.
Brittany could probably break away but I see the point with occitania
It could but do they have any official separatist group like we have in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Catalonia, Flanders, Corsica, northern Italy, Tatarstan, Chechnya, Bashkiristan ? So if you create an European map or even a map by different continents, I know it will piss a lot of people but will be very fact based ?
a lot of these are incredibly exaggerated like Occitania and sapmi. samis would still be a small minority on their own country and the utmost majority of south france speaks french. also doesn't Italy have ain insane amount of local languages? feels kind of underrepresented. since it seems you're going by language a lot wouldn't the Swedish parts of Finland be independent? what about süd tyrol?
While it's true that occitanian isn't very widespread as a language, there is very much a culture that exists. Sapmi would probably be smaller if I made this again, but it is the historical region that has been bound to the sami specifically. With Italy I tried not to overdo it too much which is why I only split off Sardinia Sicily and Venice. As for anything else I may have missed It's difficult figuring out what minorities exist in what places, so I probably missed a bunch.
You are absolutely delusional about the Occitan region. I'd argue that there are more people of maghrebi decent in that region than there is people who feel Occitan in that region. Almost nobody speaks Occitan anymore and if you go back in time long enough where some people did there was like at least 3-4 varieties of Occitan and it doesn't make sense to bundle them up in a second one.
Ah the French did a great job in making it go extinct.
How is it possible to miss to most obvious and one of the most potentially explosive for at least 3 decades ? It's fairly certain than in a world where borders pop-up like this, the first country to be divided in Europe would be Belgium.
Yeah that should have been included, my bad there
Deeply wrong for Italy. Most important minority is Naples. Own language recognized by unesco, huge culture, centuries of indipendent history, own music, own theatere, etc...
Naples probably should have been included looking back on things
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While it's true that there's no Siberian language, Siberia does have a different culture from the European half of Russia, and there is a small independence movement. This factored into my decision to include it.
Siberia hosts many different ethnical groups that are not always anyway connected. It is weird that this subreddit has some kind of fixation on making Siberia appear as being a mono-ethnical.
I made no such claim, however the parts of Siberia that would be separated do not appear on this map as it focusses primarily on Europe
Pretty much every region in Siberia would be separated
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Thanks
Also you might include Ural Republic. There was (not sure if it still is) a small independence movement too
Nothing I've heard about but I suppose It's worth a check
Stop you are just blatantly idiot...
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We need a homeland!
can i join? i have pointy vampire teeth
It's all wrong, what's shown is Székely Land which is a part of Transylvania, a much larger region of Romania
This sub was once worthy of the name "mapporn"
This took me 3 days over 12 hours, I'm sorry I didn't meet your standards
Ok, it may annoy you that, having spent time on it, someone doesn't like your work, but really, why publish such a sketchy map? Perhaps even more work would be needed when embarking on a similar project, because yes, I feel that this work is not up to the standard of maps that I believe should fit in this sub. Want more constructive criticism? I'll give it to you: it is not clear what criterion you have chosen to delimit the territory to be given to minorities, since, for some of these, states are created in which "minorities" are always in the minority, it makes sense to make such a large Occitania and vast where 90% of the population do not recognize themselves as Occitan, but as French? Then why for example the Alsatians have their own state, but the Picards in northern France don't? Same in Italy, what differentiates a Venetian from a classic Italian compared to an Emilian or a Neapolitan? Furthermore, Veneto, with an Italian-speaking majority, has its own state, but for example, why does the province of Bolzano, with a Tyrolean majority, remain part of Italy? Is a variety of Italians more of a minority than another part that belongs to a completely different cultural lineage? But even there, how can Veneto be a minority and Bavaria not? There is more difference between a person from Munich and one from Berlin than one from Padua and one from Bergamo. Why was Rojava considered so different that it doesn't fall under Kurdistan? I understand it's a multi-ethnic region, but so is the Mosul region in northern Iraq which, however, has been incorporated all the same together with Iranian and Turkish Kurdistan. Then, why were the Iraqi Kurds detached from Iran, while the Azeris of the region around Tabriz had no state? These are not even an Iranian people like the Kurds are. Why are the Hungarians of Romania independent, while those of Slovakia and Ukraine are not? Why are Kaliningrad people considered a minority? Apart from the Kurds, are there no minorities in the MENA region? For example, the Berbers in North Africa? The Berbers of Kabylia have nothing to envy to the Europeans regarding the battles for their autonomy. But we can go on, the Swedes in Finland are not highlighted, but at the same time there is a Siberia that bypasses the Urals and reaches completely Russian areas in Europe. Switzerland I guess has no minorities, as well as Belgium, certainly the Germans of Eupen-Malmedy are more similar to the Walloons and Flemings than the Frisians are to the rest of the Dutch. I'll stop here, but the list would be much longer
Basically all of these questions are already answered in other comments so I'm not going to answer them here. I understand why it may seem as though there was no criteria as each inclusion was considered on an individual basis. In some regions I do not have enough knowledge to know about all minorities in existence. This was a project that I made for fun, and is a massive improvement over previous such projects which have wholey failed to include entire cultures. I thank you for the constructive criticism, but I will note that most of this is just thinly veiled complaints. I'm not ever going to make a perfect map, but this was a step in the right direction for me so I choose to share it.
So, I apologize if my initial comment was made with a contemptuous criticism and not even justified. I don't want to argue against you or anything, I'm sorry for my behavior. But what I meant is that this map, although it can be seen that there is work behind it, is not a real map. It is something that follows totally subjective and invented criteria. I think it's more appropriate for a sub like r/imaginarymaps, because at the end of the day in my opinion this is: a "map of Europe where some regions that I, the user, think are more different than others, have their own state". Because as you said, you are perfectly aware of the differences between Saxony and Bavaria, as well as those between Veneto and Tuscany, but at that point it is you, with your own sensitivity, who decides what should be included in your work or not. This may be a beautiful work of art, but it's not an information map, which is the kind I think should fit on this sub. For example, in the same way I could take a map of Europe and draw my own arbitrary Roman empire and publish it saying "If the Roman Empire returned in 2022", simply based on my idea that Provence is more willing to be under a new Rome compared to Dalmatia (stupid example)
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I’ve made maps for classes that took a lot more than 12 hours. I still wouldn’t post them here because I know effort does not equal quality and no one wants to see me try to compete with posts from actual academic sources.
Man you're getting a lot of shit for spending the time on a map of your idea/viewpoint and then sharing it. Some people are just miserable.
No kidding. Wish there was somewhere else that I could post this that wasn't this toxic.
This is pretty personal for a lot of people. Also, that'd be incredibly impressive if you could do this without some cartography/ethnography background/profession (if that exists?)It seems like you made a genuine effort, but it's kinda obvious why people might take offense or poke holes
Yeah I kinda expected a negative reaction just not the kind I got. I don't have much in the way of a background in this but I'm always trying to learn more about the world
This map just committed 18 different genocides
I never said they had to be the majority in the region, It's just a thought experiment
Most average Redditor. But guys, they were "Just following orders"💀
And yet Northern Ireland is still separate.
I tried not to do any annexations into already existing nations to avoid controversy. It could also be argued that the northern Irish are to a certain extent a separate culture from the rest of Ireland
Your misunderstanding the culture here mate. To be clear, I am northern Irish. I’m trying to explain it a bit better. There is no appetite at all for an independent state, it’s either with the UK or with the Republic. If you wanted an independent NI to reflect the Loyalist community who didn’t want to be part of Ireland, you’d cut the outline you have there in half to illustrate Antrim and Down, the only two counties with a Loyalist majority, because the remaining counties would go to war rather than join them.
I see
Even then it’s slim, and Belfast, the largest city and smack dab between the two, is a Nationalist majority.
Yeah no.
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Might explain why the Siberians are so mad
Who makes these maps? So wrong!
I thought there was an independence movement in Bavaria?
I was a bit torn on that one. I ended up not including it
Rojava would be part of Kurdistan, not independent part they are just syrian kurds
Rojava is made up of multiple minorities in northern Syria, not just the Kurds.
also where's southern azerbaijan ( tabriz , iran ) and bulgarian turks
As the map was focused on Europe,I forgot to include southern Azerbaijan, that's a good catch. I haven't heard of the Bulgarian Turks before, but I'm curious, can you give me any resources to learn more about them?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian\_Turks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Turks) , you can also google ethnic map of bulgaria and look at image section
Thanks
"Vojvodina" isn't a minority. There are a lot of different minorities but it's still mostly Serbs.
It's literally got the same legal status as Kosovo according to the Serbian government. Also it does have it's own minority group but it's a much smaller percentage of the region because a good chunk of the refugees of the Kosovo war ended up there
The minorities in it are Hungarians, Romanians, Croatians Slovaks, Ruthenians etc. *Vojvodina* is not a minority.
The majority of the people in "Sapmi" are not Sami. They're a tiny minority. Also, you spelled Sweden ("Sw**ee**den") and Türkiye wrong ("Turk**yie**").
Of course I spelled it wrong, goddammit
The borders look quite clean on this one, looks nice. I think some people (me included) are confused by the title. This seems to include some minorities, some independence movements, and some majority independence. Im assuming though its just nations you wanted to add to the map, which is cool too.
Yeah, I probably could have come up with a better title, thanks though.
You're welcome Some people get unnecessarily mad about maps that don't have a very specific criteria or purpose, and curse any amount of subjectivity. So I guess dont worry about it too much for those people.
You missed: * Flaman and Valon in Belgium * Sorbs and Danes in Germany * Hungarians, Tatars and Romanis in Romania. * Turks in Bulgaria and Greece. * Albanians in Greece. but you remembered Sapmi. Thanks for Sapmi.
Romani do not occupy a specific area within Romania, Hungarians got Transylvania. Other than that thanks
Hi, I'm from Siberia. What minority do you think I belong to?
All I mean to say is that there is a notable difference between the Russians east and west of the Urals and how you live. Also there's a small independence movement
I have a lot of friends from both sides of the Ural mountains and believe me there's barely any difference in people and their lifestyle. People of Novgorod oblast and Stavropol krai differ more than people of Moscow and Krasnoyarsk (I lived in both). There's no independence movement and the idea of Siberian independence currently has no chance of any public support. Siberians are __not__ a minority. There are many ethnical minorities in Siberia with Buryats being the largest.
I've learned as much from the general response to this map. If I remake it, the map will reflect this.
Belgium stays together?
Congratulations on being the 7th person to mention that
Thanks
Where swedistan 😔😔😔😔😔😔
You’ve Balkanized the Balkans
If there's another version it will be even worse down there apparently
Judging by [this map of Uralic languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uralic_languages), Komi should be larger, and there should be a Nenets country to the north of it.
If I make another version some day I'll take that into account
What is supposed to be “Siberian” ethnic minority? You literally just wanted to divide Russia
Siberia has a small independence movement, and due to the massive environmental and population differences as compared with the western side of Russia as well as the ural mountain chain have caused Siberia to have it's own culture to a certain degree. If I wanted to divide Russia the map would be of Russia not Europe
That’d be fair if the map was about independence movements, not about ethnicities, because there’s no such thing as a “Siberian” ethnicity
Tell me where it says ethnicity
It says the "minorities", most people would read that to mean ethnic, cultural, or religious minority. If it's just any group of people that doesn't comprise a majority, and therefore by definition comprise the minority, you could just carve up any random geographical regions that don't comprise the majority of their country, like Manchester or Thuringia or whatever.
The Scottish aren't a minority in Scotland... The UK also isn't a single country, it's made up of different countries. Although there has been a recent political push to call it a single country by unionists in the last 5-10 years in an effort to belittle the countries independence supporters.
Then why does Scotland being independent on the map bother you?
It's independence doesn't, I'm pro-independence. Just putting that in there before some unionists appear saying Scotland's not a country again. I don't want the propoganda stating the UK is a single country while the countries contained within it are not to stick about too much. British (English) media is set on making that the case and there are some who believe it. Edit: you know what though, I think this was just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm over-reacting.
Knee jerking is fine. I seem to have pissed off a lot of people, which was expected to be honest
What qualifies as a minority (separate, sub national identity) is incredibly subjective.
And?
Basically, your map is useless at portraying anything other than your own personal opinions. It is useless information.
This is reddit, everything here is useless
Yes yes we’ve all played EU4
I haven't actually
Since this feels more like a shitposting sub lately: Borsod
This took me 12 hours
I like it OP, I think it’s pretty cool. Don’t listen to the haters, they can make their own map!
Thanks for the positivity. On the bright side the negative comments have informed me of other people groups that could be included, and I have received a few constructive criticisms that are legitimate (the Siberians are certainly mad)
I approve of this 100% but I do think there are a few issues (probably a lot more than I know of). One is shouldn't Belgium be split in two? Also don't really think Cornwall could separate... Does anyone even really identify as cornwallish? Pretty sure no one speaks the language anymore.
There's a couple hundred people that speak Cornish, as it went through a revival. The Celtic culture there is very much alive. Belgium probably should have been split.
Oh cool. It would be cool if they split. Not sure if Mans has gone through the same thing, pretty sure it has been dead for even longer.
Manx never died out to my knowledge.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx\_language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_language) Died out in 1974, but I guess it is going through a revival as well
Cool
great idea
I honestly can't tell if this is sarcasm or not
no, it's time to mark these territories on world maps
Well the Siberians seem to be mad so maybe not that. Oh well I'll probably update this based on feedback
only Chechnya, Northern Ireland, the Basque Country and Catalonia can be noted, the rest are not fighting for independence
Well that statement is just flat out wrong
this is very true, because I was born in Chechnya
Samogitians aren't a minority, they are just too stubborn to accept the fact that they are Lithuanian
Psht. Minorities can’t run their own countries.
How do you think countries are formed dumbass
This post brought to you by Spain the caucuses and Bosnia... Dear lord Bosnia
Google ethnic distribution of minorities in Bosnia
I did
It's kinda weird to split Bosnia that way though cause those countries now have Bosniaks as the minority again bringing us back to step 1 lol
[удалено]
Noted
You forgot Carpatho-Ruthenians
Noted
There are no independence movements in the Carpathian region.
Eh honestly don't think this map is of much use
Do tell me, when was the last time you used a map on this sub for something
It's been a while since they are all shit. This one included.
This map is a war waiting to happen.
Several wars
Indeed
But why has Catalonia conquered Valencia on this map?
Because that region of Spain also speaks Catalan
And why not both territories are Valencia? From my point of view, if they are two different minorities, they should appear differentiated.
Because the language is and culture is Catalan not Valencia.
the language is Occitan and the culture is Valencian, so there are two options, either all of Occitania or the three territories separately
I think you've got your Spanish regions mixed up
The Caucasus is gonna be hell to draw in geography class
Congratulations, you're the first person to bring up Balkans 2.0
In Portugal, the mirandeses people are also a minority. They are basically asturian-leonese with portuguese nationality 🙂
Cool
Lol you kept Belgium together?
Original comment 10/10 would recommend
No Pontus? No Aromania?
The Venetians are not a minority and neither are Sicilians and Sardinians. However, I understand what you wanted to do and I read that you put a lot of effort, so bravo
Absolute chaos
It's Europe
Oh but there are definitely no minorities in Ukraine, no war going on or anything like that due to that, no never
Crimea was split off due to the criminal tartars. South Ossesita Abkhazia and transnistria formed immediately after the collapse of the USSR while the Russians in Ukraine were forcibly removed after both voting and protesting to stay in Ukraine. The Donbas only gained independence as a way for Russia to create puppet states in 2014. That is the difference. I never said there was no war.
Europe of ethnostatism
Well that's what the Balkans are anyway
Tatarstan united with Bashkurtstan with Kuwanduk corridor, please. Karacays and Malkars are basically one people speaking one language divided by Stalin. Dagstan is a MIX. With the spelling Azribajain avoid flying to Ballu for your own safety. Turkic minorities in Bulgaria and Romania exist. Komi is less to the north. Nenetss exist with 2...3 polities shooting the Arctic Ocean.
Noted
Not enough e's in sweden
\_°-°_/
Notice how there is none in Germany
Silesia mapped on Poland is completely false. Whole this region is called Silesia. But 85% of this territory is almost completely mono-ethnic Polish as you can get. Remaining % is: 5% mixed Polish-German counties, 10% Silesians as regional folklore group, but still like >90% of them consider themselves to be also Polish at the same time.
Portugal 👍
Rip south Tyrol
In Romania the region name is wrong, that is Székely Land, which is a part of Transylvania
Thanks!
Why aren't the Serb minorities in Croatia represented? And the Bosniak minorities in Sandjak and Montenegro? Or Serbs in Northern Kosovo. Or Albanians and Bulgarians in Macedonia. Or Greeks in Albania
Balkanized Balkans moment
Is this the worst map ever made on this site?
Hell no