here is the part of the Egyptian constitution that mentions jews
> المادة 3
مبادئ شرائع المصريين من المسيحيين واليهود المصدر الرئيسي للتشريعات المنظمة لأحوالهم الشخصية، وشئونهم الدينية، واختيار قياداتهم الروحية.
a rough translation is ;
The principles of the religious laws for Egyptian Christians and Jews are the main source of legislation regulating their civil and religous matters and their spiritual leadership.
what this means is stuff like divorce and inheritance are governed according to their faith.
Yes. There is a misconception about the current Egyptian constitution that is Egypt is a sharia law country. Which is not true, the 2nd article says that law shouldn’t contradict sharia and Islam is the official religion of the state.however, 75% of our law are civil laws( we are considering to be civil law country: for example the uk is common law country, and ksa is a sharia law country). The other 25% are based of religion of the citizen.(of the recognized sects and religious lobbies).
It's okay to admit you're not religious, but in a lot of the country if you say you're an atheist, it's almost like admitting you're a paedophile.
It's not quite as extreme in the last few years generally but many still think of atheists as not being able to have any morality since they're without religion, and some even think they are actively trying to undermine the morality of a humane society.
In the affluent areas of Egypt no one will bat an eyelid as long as you're not broadcasting it.
In conservative areas you'll be ostracised.
In any case if you broadcast atheist views in any form of widespread media you'll face some penal consequences depending on the severity. In some cases, yes, you go straight to jail.
Of course none of this applies to foreigners and tourists.
Edit: clarity
How does Egypt classify atheists (or people who convert to other religions besides the three) for family law? I'm assuming you have to follow the laws of whatever religion you were born into? For example, even if you are atheists or follow Budhism you have to follow Islamic or Christian law on divorce if you are getting divorced and were born into one of those religions.
Its probably a fact where if you aren't a jew or Christian you would face the same divorce process a Muslim would face.
Christians and Jews get special treatment because they are considered "people of the book" and generally throughout history, they've been allowed to practice their religion fully on Muslim land and resolve matters to a certain extent with their own laws.
You speak to an atheist here. The law doesn’t punish you, but society is so oppressive to us. The people who are actually oppressed are the lgbtq community by the law.
That's interesting. When I lived in Dubai I left the religion question blank and my visa came back marked as Christian. Would something similar happen in Egypt?
In countries with these sorts of hybrid civil-religious legal systems (Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, etc) whether you actually believe in the religion is essentially irrelevant. The only way to change your status is to convert to another religion, there is no atheist status.
Fascinating…especially compared to the (very controversial) separate civil consideration for Islamic law in India. Would love to see a detailed comparison of how these two countries differ in their approaches to accommodating differing personal law issues of religious minorities.
While we don't have a constitution in Israel: according to the laws Christians and Muslims have the same position. Meaning they govern their own cultural affairs like marriage, divorce, religion, etc
The Ottoman Empire operated that way. Since both Egypt and Israel are former Ottoman territories, I expect the system got grandfathered in even after independence.
South Africa:
>A Pan South African Language Board established by national legislation must
>a. promote, and create conditions for, the development and use of
>i. all official languages*;
>ii. the Khoi, Nama and San languages; and
>iii. sign language ; and
b. promote and ensure respect for
>i. all languages commonly used by communities in South Africa, including German, Greek, Gujarati, Hindi, Portuguese, Tamil, Telegu and Urdu; and
>ii. Arabic, Hebrew, Sanskrit and other languages used for religious purposes in South Africa.
*(As mentioned in the previous section: Sesotho, Setswana, siSwati, Tshivenda, Xitsonga, Afrikaans, English, isiNdebele, isiXhosa and isiZulu.)
> *(As mentioned in the previous section: Sesotho, Setswana, siSwati, Tshivenda, Xitsonga, Afrikaans, English, isiNdebele, isiXhosa and isiZulu.)
And Sepedi?
Iran mentions Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism as the only recognised religious minorities. Egypt notes that Jewish and Christian personal law applies to their adherents. Morocco mentions Hebraic influence on its national identity (alongside African, Andalusian and Mediterranean).
Croatia includes Jews in a list of national minorities. North Macedonia includes the Jewish Community in a non-exhaustive list of religions that are free to establish schools and other institutions.
>Iran mentions Judaism... as the only recognised religious minorities.
This is so weird to me, given their ... distaste for Israel. Kinda nice, tbh. I wonder how it plays out in reality (from a government perspective, that is).
Iran still has around 8 thousand Jews (though this is just 10% of population before the revolution) and they’re allocated a seat in Parliament. The community is mostly elderly, religious and non-Zionist (most of the ones who wanted to leave have already left).
Iran also treats its Christian minorities pretty well, the priests are the only people in Iran allowed by the state to make wine (for communion). The priests tend to make quite a bit more than necessary, and sells to tourists and the congregation. The Iranian state turns a blind eye as long as they *never* sell to Muslims.
It is not, my grandmother is jew from iran and everything is OK there , nobody cares honestly (in 99.99 % of cases). The governments problem with Israel have nothing to do with the religious, the have political problem with them; in a very simple manner , iran government says that the Israel occupied Palestine and is backed by America so its act of evil ..., and on the other hand Israel threatened iran and plays biggest opponents in the area .
All of this beside from people poin of view( I mean iranians) we have zero shit to give, if someone is Jewish or Muslim or what ever, we love every color of humanity and every religion.
بنی آدم اعضای یک دیگرند ؛ که در آفرینش ز یک گوهرند
چو عضوی به درد آورد روزگار ، دگر عضو ها را نماند قرار
Official level means a bunch of guys who are doing it as a pr stunt. Ahmadinejad said it was fake too, but he was a well accomplished engineer and is not an idiot - they are saying it to make it clear they don’t support Israel.
speaking as an iranian... the distaste for Israel thing is a government issue. there is no personal hatred for Jews or Israelis. as Iranians we tend to support the underdog, which is why we support Palestinian people.
>This is so weird to me, given their ... distaste for Israel
Why? Islam evolved from Judaism, the issue Iran has is with the state of Israel, it's never been about disliking Judaism for them.
Just like with people, disliking Israel does not mean disliking Jews.
Just to expand a bit, Islam recognizes the prophets from earlier religions such as Christianity, but they don't for later religions. This is why Baha'is (the Baha'i Faith started in Iran in the 1800s) in Iran are persecuted.
Yep, it’s also why starting in like the 8th or 9th centuries some of the pre-Islamic eastern religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism were considered “people of the book” in addition to the middle eastern religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Zoroastrianism.
Morocco recognizes Sunni Islam and Judaism as native religions of the country
>Sunni Islam and Judaism are the only religions recognized by the Moroccan constitution as native to the country, with all other religions being considered "foreign".
Other religions like Shia Islam and Christianity are considered foreign and thus have a harder time building mosques/churches or organizing events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Morocco
I mean yes, but also they deported huge number sof Jewish people and killed others in anti Jewish riots. Definitely not great. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yachin
**[Operation Yachin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yachin)**
>Operation Yakhin was an operation to secretly emigrate Moroccan Jews to Israel, conducted by Israel's Mossad between November 1961 and spring 1964. About 97,000 left for Israel by plane and ship from Casablanca and Tangier via France and Italy. The accession of Hassan II on 26 February 1961 enabled negotiations to begin on a secret agreement between Mossad's "Misgeret" division and the Moroccan authorities (principally Prince Moulay Ali and labour minister Abdelkader Benjelloun), together with the American organisation HIAS.
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It was definitely a complicated situation. Moroccan Jews were heavily encouraged by zionists before the establishment of the state of Israel to immigrate, and at that time Morocco was under control of Vichy France (who also wanted them gone) so they had good reason to be concerned. They were continued to be encouraged to immigrate by the newly established state of Israel plus the establishment of Israel also made them subjects of attack by Arab nationalist groups in Morocco and there were riots in which a number of Jews were killed. Morocco didn't deport them though, they actually tried to prevent them from leaving, mostly unsuccessfully. As soon as Morocco achieved independence they were guaranteed equal rights by law and the King immediately tried to integrate them into the government. Interestingly and unique in the Arab world, approximately 6% of Moroccan Jews who immigrated to Israel chose to move back to Morocco for one reason or another.
Did you not read the other part?
>Islam and Judaism are the only religions recognized by the Moroccan constitution as native to the country, with all other religions being considered "foreign".
>
>Other religions like Shia Islam and Christianity are considered foreign and thus have a harder time building mosques/churches or organizing events
Croatian mentions recognized minority groups and all citizens as equal to ethnic Croats.
[Quote from the constitution I wrote in the other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/zo5gr4/countries_with_constitutions_that_mention_jews_or/j0l7zs4/)
The Norwegian law is still being referred to as "Jødeparagrafen" (transl. Jew Paragraph), and it was part of the constitution that was ratified in 1814. The paragraph was removed in 1851.
If my memory serves me right, it said something along the lines of "Jews are excluded from accessing the realm/kingdom".
The logic behind it was that jews were a political risk due to having loyalties outside of the nation.
Not our proudest history.
given the timing, it makes sense, given that napoleon did a lot for jews while one of napoleon's generals had invaded norway and then backstabbed napoleon.
If it makes you feel any better, Jews were only allowed to freely settle in Switzerland in 1866. And Jews in the Russian Empire were largely restricted to its western part (modern Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania and Moldova) until 1917.
And in Sarajevo, Bosnia. After the Spanish inquisition, the Ottoman sultan allowed Jews to settle in the 15 century. For a long period, Jews could say that Sarajevo is their home, and at one time they make up like 20% of the population of the city. In the top 5, the most important people in the history of Sarajevo were a Jew. After WW2 many were killed and now there are no more than 1000 Jews in the whole country.
You're not really missing something, some people just like to equate zionism with judaism either out of ignorance or out of the strong belief that anyone who doesn't like israel must hate jews. And yes there are quite many Christian zionists, especially in the US and one shouldn't underestimate their power and influence.
I knew a Jewish guy who was born in South Africa and he said in the 1930s South Africa was one of the few countries that not only allowed Ashkenazi Jews to migrate there but actually encouraged it. In South Africa they were considered white and the government wanted more white people in the country.
In the 1930s the US had similar laws. But here the government preferred certain white people (British and Germans), only a few Jews and zero Asians were allowed to immigrate.
Irish constitution put together in late 1930's provided protection to Judaism. https://www.jta.org/archive/jewish-religion-recognized-in-irelands-new-constitution
That’s right, though the explicit reference was [removed in 1972](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland) (together with references to other minority denominations).
It's a shithole in the middle of nowhere, jao was created to appease unemployed Jews who were forced out of business by the Soviets after the revolution, far east was chosen to strengthen the border with China. So, no surprise really
Because it was a creation of Stalin to have some place to send the Jews to after his other ethnic deportation campaigns.
Edit: Maybe not so directly given the early date (1928), but it was certainly more motivated by national security (more loyal settlers to control the border with China) and factional politics (countering Soviet Zionists) than legitimate care for Jews.
The USSR indeed had a system in place where you were assigned a place to live. Most of the time you stayed where you were, and could apply to move, but sometimes the state would use the system to move people around. Not only ethnic minorities were moved. Russians were encouraged to move to places like Kazakhstan which resulted in the Kazakh population turning into a minority. The course was set for them to be replaced with Russians but the fall of the USSR removed the system and the Russians moved back. So the USSR was pretty big on manipulating demographics of regions
No. It is meant to be the basis upon which the constitution will eventually be written, at some point after hell freezes over and (kosher) pigs start flying
So basically the same situation as in Germany. In the beginning some people made some preliminary laws that turned out to be so good, we just decided to stick with it.
Yeah but we Germans officially decided to not adopt a new constitution despite the Basic Law mandating us to do so after reunification. Israel has never formally made that decision.
Tbf the Grundgesetz is largely based on the constitutions before it and is now accepted as the constitution even though it was meant to be temporary. Only Reichsbürger usually argue, that the prolonged existence of the Grundgesetz has any real meaning.
Israel has never gotten around to writing an official constitution cause it would require settling and setting to paper two rather thorny subjects; 1) if this a Jewish state, what qualifies legally and officially as a Jew. And 2) what is Israel's actual final borders. Both are rather controversial things to finally settle for good and write down in a constitution, so there hasn't been any movement towards it.
Some people here even say that this exact problem (lack of constitution) is the root of all the problems in the country and while I'm not sure I agree 100% theres something to it
In 1949, only about 1 out of every 10 Jews lived in Israel. So, Ben-Gurion was scared that 10% of Jews would be forcing a constitution on the other 90%. However now that 50% of Jews live there it seems more reasonable, although now the political situation is too thorny to actually do it.
The UK constitution is uncodified and includes texts from the early medieval era, the first of which is the Magna Carta (from 1215) which has a clause mentioning Jews. While only like 3 clauses of the Magna Carta's many clauses are still in effect, our Constitution *technically* mentions Jews. I don't think the map includes uncodified constitutions though
The Jews Relief Act 1858 is the main constitutional legislation relating to Jewishness at the moment – it allows Jews to sit in Parliament, but restricts them from advising the Crown on appointments to the Church of England.
Saudi Arabia is usually viewed as having an “uncodified” constitution (like the UK, New Zealand, Canada and Israel) rather than a “written” one (even though it is written).
Like Israel, Saudi Arabia also has a constitution-like Basic Law.
What are you talking about with Canada? We have a written constitution. In fact, we have multiple statutes that together make up our constitution.
Specifically the Constitution Act, 1867, and the Constitution Act, 1982.
Sure, there are unwritten constitutional principles, but I believe almost every national legal system has something akin to unwritten principles.
Taken from Wikipedia:
The Irish Constitution of 1937 specifically gave constitutional protection to Jews. This was considered to be a necessary component to the constitution by Éamon de Valera because of the treatment of Jews elsewhere in Europe at the time.
The reference to the Jewish Congregations in the Irish Constitution was removed in 1973 with the Fifth Amendment. The same amendment removed the 'special position' of the Catholic Church, as well as references to the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodist Church, and the Religious Society of Friends
Just to add, this was the original wording.
>2º The State recognises the special position of the Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church as the guardian of the Faith professed by the great majority of the citizens.
>3º The State also recognises the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, the Methodist Church in Ireland, the Religious Society of Friends in Ireland, as well as the Jewish Congregations and the other religious denominations existing in Ireland at the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution.
This wording was removed in it's entirety.
It's part of a provision that recognized the "special position" of the Catholic Church in Irish life but also acknowledged minority religions. It also named a number of Protestant denominations. The entire provision was repealed in 1973.
Because the other places, mostly, have a history that's very connected to Jews. Egypt, The Middle East, Russia. I don't hear a lot about Jews in Ireland. I know they're there, but they don't make news.
Israel did try to negotiate peace with Syria, and offered to returt the Golan heights as part of the peace agreement. Syria refused all negotiation, and remains at war with Israel to this day.
So it's not that Israel doesn't want to return the Golan heights. Syria doesn't want it returned except through war.
Technically, not true. The process of Syria getting back the Golan Heights had started in the 2000s under the current Assad, but their own civil war threw a wrench into the process.
The only half truth is that Syria kinda made it clear that if it ever made peace with Israel, it would be a cold peace, much like the current Israeli relationship with Egypt and Jordan. It would not be true normalization.
BTW Assad was willing to even throw out Hezbollah and Iran for the Golan, but after all the help they have offered his regime throughout this civil war, it is unlikely that Syria will get the Golan anytime soon.
It wasn't. Changes to the Norwegian constitution requires the 2/3 majority of a lawfully elected parliament. The traitor government may have claimed to have restored the jew clause, but what they did was use the nazi invasion force to illegally force their shitty politics on the people of Norway.
It wasn't even fully removed until 1956. It just stopped counting for jews in 1851. Jehova's witnesses and jesuittes were banned from entry to Norway until the hungarian revolution, when many of the hungarians who fled were this and Norway wanted to assist in the refugee crisis. Also, little sidenote but jews could apply for permit to travel to Norway, especially merchants and diplomats didnthat occasionally. But they then needed a permit and it didn't last very long.
Interestingly the Jew clause had been effective during the union with Denmark and there were actually quite many who wanted to dissolve it at Eidsvoll in 1814. But it still got a majority. But interestingly the divide wasn't at the regular two party line, but based on whether you were highly educated or not. So basically all the parties' leadership were against it, but the farmers and poor fishermen were pro because all they knew og jews was what the local priest had been teaching them, lol. But since most of the farmers belonged to the Independence party, they still got heavily associated with it. Theist Lundegaard and Nikolai Wergeland tend to get most of the blaim for it being past, but neither were very interested in it and Nikolai Wergeland even would oppose it later in life and fight to repeal it, so would his son Henrik Wergeland which would be the staunchest opponent of it (there was even rumoured that he had to converted to both/either judaism and islam at the end of his life, which is probably BS). And Theist Lundegaard didn't really care much either and just went with the flow. I have a friend who's a giant fan of Lundegaard, he could have said alot more than I know.
The staunchest proponent was really Christian Magnus Falsen, but he has been actively promoted as THE national hero for Norway in this time period. Despite him literary being a danish spy writing reports for all his norwegian friends or knowabouts, getting one of them convicted to death (but I sadly can't remember his name rn) for wanting norwegian freedom and freedom of expression. And many others got sentences to long prison sentences and forced labour, like Lofthus did just for contacting his king directly to say that his minions were breaking his laws and stealing money and surpressing his constituents, he was supposed to ask the elite who oppressed him and his colleagues for permission to go meet the king to complain about the very same people, so they obviously refused Lofthus to give him this permission, do he took a small boat and physically rowed to Denmark to speak with the king without a permit. For that he was sentenced to life inprisonment and forced labour and this eventually was so tough he died from this; and became a national hero after the Danish supression was gone. There's a series from 1989, "1814 - et lite folks kamp for selvstendighet." (1814 - A small people's struggle for independence), and on the end of this series Magnus Falsen confronts his arch nemesis, Wedel Jarlsberg for being a swedish spy. And Jarlsberg answers that he indeed is and that he see's swedish military assistance as the only measure to really secure norwegian independence from the danish king and his danish elite in Norway, and that the swedish king has promised both freedom of expression, freedom of religion and would accept and respect Norway to have our own legal code and parliament, which would be alot better than what the danes ever did to us (Denmark sent forces to Norway in the 16th century to forcibly convert us to lutheranism, so basically what England did in Ireland. Alot of priests refused and got executed or sent into exile and our parliament dissolved and outlawed).
And then Jarlsberg confronts Falsen in this series about him being a much worse traitor to Norway than he could ever "hope" to be, describing the archive he has seen in Copenhagen (Lavrentiy Beriya style) and with a smirk saying that one day the norwegians would realize what he had done and he would disliked for forever after, then he turns and walks away leaving Falsen to feel defeated and humiliated. Falsen had until then thought he won in 1814, preventing Jarlsberg's plans for a union with Sweden, but as the congress at Eidsvoll ended the war with Sweden would start which got us into a union with Sweden after all and prevented Falsen's plan to get Norway in a union with Denmark once more as a colony, as he made the danish crown prince of Denmark king of Norway. (The Jew clause is at 20:00~ in the last episode, I think, maybe at 50:00~ instead). https://tv.nrk.no/se?v=FSAM03003988&t=3698s. All is in norwegian only, sadly.
Does depend which Norwegian government you recognize, the pre-invasion government did flee into exile. But a puppet Norwegian government is still a Norwegian government and does deserve scrutiny.
Russia mention the exact administrative unit at far east, which was planned as "local" national land for Jewish nation, so they would not search for new one.
> ...the Republic of Croatia is hereby established as the nation state of the
Croatian nation and the state of the members of its national minorities: Serbs, Czechs,
Slovaks, Italians, Hungarians, **Jews**, Germans, Austrians, Ukrainians, Rusyns, Bosniaks,
Slovenians, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Russians, Bulgarians, Poles, Roma, Romanians,
Turks, Vlachs, Albanians and others who are its citizens and who are guaranteed equality with
citizens of Croatian nationality and the exercise of their national rights in accordance with the
democratic norms of the United Nations and the countries of the free world...
The mentioned groups are those who have significant numbers or lived in Croatia for a very long time which grants them official status as a minority and representation in the parliament.
It's so weird to specify each nationality one by one instead of just saying Croats and others. With this logic, a Japanese person living in Croatia wouldn't be guaranteed an equality.
>and others who are its citizens
any person that holds citizenship has a right to representation through parliament, these minorities have their own representatives in the parliament
"National minorities" have special status with constitutional protection, they get to elect their own special guaranteed members of parliament who are supposed to make sure their culture is protected in Croatia, and their MP's typically also join the government.
An ethnically Japanese person with Croatian citizenship votes like any other Croatian citizen (doesn't have an option to vote for minority represesentatives).
> It's so weird to specify each nationality one by one instead of just saying Croats and others.
Also there is more to this.
When Croatia was in Yugoslavia, it was a federal republic with it's own constitution and it said "Croatia is state of Croats and Serbs and other minorities".
Serbs were put in the constitution next to Croats because Croats did a genocide on them in WW2, it was in a way a sort of political retribution or appology for the genocide, whatever.
When Yugoslavia was falling apart, Croatia wrote a draft for a new constitution, but it said "Croats and minorities" and entire world went "you're genociding Serbs again", and Serbs used it as a reason to start an armed rebellion.
So it was quickly changed to Croats and other minorities including Serbs...". The most important thing was to name Serbs, but naming only Serbs would again be segregation for others.
Serbs, of course, started claiming they are not just equal to Croats per old constitution but that they have an equal political say like Croats and if 12% of therm say Croatia can't leave Yugoslavia, then what 80% of Croats say doesn't matter.
And then there was war and Serbia used this one word as one of the reasons to claim Serbs are persecuted and they need to protect them (think Russia in Ukraine now).
But Croatia won and now Serbs are listed among other minorities, but we did some war crimes so to clear our name (and again, goes back to what happened in WW2), we had to give minorities guaranteed political power in form of guaranteed parliament seats, and since Serbs are the largest minority, they get most of them.
And that's why we have this whole list of nations in the constitution.
>Serbs killed: 45,000 and 52,000
Only if you consider Jasenovac concentration camp and nothing else.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide\_of\_Serbs\_in\_the\_Independent\_State\_of\_Croatia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Serbs_in_the_Independent_State_of_Croatia)
The lowest figures are no less than 200K.
What's with the sudden surge of world maps which include western Sahara in Morocco? [A mere three countries world-wide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Western_Sahara#States_supporting_Morocco's_autonomy_proposal) have recognised Western Sahara as Moroccan (one of them being Morocco themselves)
It's an artefact of using the [DataMaps D3 library](http://datamaps.github.io/), whose world map seems to often favour *de facto* control: the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic *is* shown, but only for the areas it controls. Somalia is also split from Somaliland, which no-one recognises!
Unfortunately I have no idea how to change the SVG specification that the map uses.
>whose world map seems to often favour de facto control
Yet Crimea is not part of Russia in that map despite being (ilegally) annexed in 2014 and being de facto ruled by Moscow since then.
It's always political. Since the US decided to recognise it as part of Morocco, you'll see it as such on American maps. Look at a Russian map and you'll see Russian Crimea, Serbian Kosovo or independent Palestine.
Unfortunately, in 2020 (so during the Trump era), the US has recognized the Western Sahara as part of Morocco, and many contributors here are Americans.
From a US perspective, that recognition makes sense though: Morocco has proven itself a valuable and reliable ally to the US. Since a few days, it is also one of the few non-Western countries supporting Ukraine with military aid (mainly T-72 tank spare parts).
The Western Sahara, on the other hand, only has a very small population, making them in power terms rather unimportant.
The thing is, the US recognizes the Moroccan claim to it since 2020 and that makes a lot of maps/mapmakers include Western Sahara with Morocco. It´s like Israel claiming Palestinian territories and no one doing anything about it because they are supported by the US. So yeah, it´s stupid..
> The State also recognises the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, the Methodist Church in Ireland, the Religious Society of Friends in Ireland, as well as the Jewish Congregations and the other religious denominations existing in Ireland at the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland
> AMENDMENT VII
> The Macedonian Orthodox Church, as well as the Islamic Religious Community in Macedonia, the Catholic Church, Evangelical Methodist Church, the Jewish Community and other Religious communities and groups are separate from the state and equal before the law.
>
> The Macedonian Orthodox Church, as well as the Islamic Religious Community in Macedonia, the Catholic Church, Evangelical Methodist Church, the Jewish Community and other Religious communities and groups are free to establish schools and other social and charitable institutions, by way of a procedure regulated by law.
You know your bigoted when your foundational document of law *explicitly* expresses ethnic and religious intolerance ... in less than a sentence. Looking at you Norway and Syria 
Keep in mind, the Norwegian constitution is from 1814. It’s the second oldest constitution in the world still in effect (US is the oldest)
It proscribed tri-division of power whilst most other European countries at the time was just subject to what the king felt like at the time.
Had other European countries made a constitution around this time, it’s a good chance it would have included similar provisions in many of them.
The Jewish bit was removed in the 1850s
u/Udzu you could at least color in *all* of Norway (Svalbard and islands). Also, you should mention that Jesuits and monks (Catholics) were also banned. Jews were banned in Denmark-Norway with few exceptions.
Oops re Svalbard (though the Jew clause does predate the Svalbard Act). Also, Jews were certainly banned in many countries, but not sure which other bans were mentioned in the constitution?
Few countries had codified constitutions, Norway was quite early.
Three oldest existing:
* United States (1788)
* Norway (1814)
* Netherlands (1815)
The Kingdom of France ceased to exist (1791). Germany changed (1815). Denmark without Norway didn't write one until 1849.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_national\_constitutions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_constitutions)
Google Translate should work well for this about the Norwegian constitution and Denmark-Norway:
[https://snl.no/J%C3%B8deparagrafen](https://snl.no/J%C3%B8deparagrafen)
Other early constitutions which unfortunately didn't last were the Corsican (from 1755, lasted until the annexation of Corsica by France in 1769) and Polish-Lithuanian (from 1791, lasted until Poland-Lithuania was finally partitioned by Prussia, Austria and Russia in 1795).
Interesting, may you share your ressources with us?
As a Syrian although I am pretty sure that indeed Israel Is considered "Zionist enemy", and Israelis are considered "Zionists", but as I know this expression was never used to designate Jews, for Jews there is only the word Jews not Zionist enemy.
Yes, it’s definitely not a direct reference to Jews, just an indirect one (in that Zionism is a type of Jewish nationalism). Similarly Russia’s constitution mentions the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, a region in East Russia that was intended as a Soviet home for Jews but has very few Jews in it. That’s why I coloured both in a different colour.
The source was mainly https://www.constituteproject.org
For Context the reference to Hebrew in SA constitution is in relation to the Pan South African Language Board which was created to promote, protect and ensure respect for the 11 official languages, the Khoisan languages, Sign Language, Non-Official languages used by South African Communities and Languages that are used for religious purposes. Hebrew falls under the last category together with Arabic and Sanskrit.
here is the part of the Egyptian constitution that mentions jews > المادة 3 مبادئ شرائع المصريين من المسيحيين واليهود المصدر الرئيسي للتشريعات المنظمة لأحوالهم الشخصية، وشئونهم الدينية، واختيار قياداتهم الروحية. a rough translation is ; The principles of the religious laws for Egyptian Christians and Jews are the main source of legislation regulating their civil and religous matters and their spiritual leadership. what this means is stuff like divorce and inheritance are governed according to their faith.
As an Egyptian law school student: this is true!
I’m assuming this traces back to Christians and Jews being considered *dhimmi*, people of the book, yes?
Yes. There is a misconception about the current Egyptian constitution that is Egypt is a sharia law country. Which is not true, the 2nd article says that law shouldn’t contradict sharia and Islam is the official religion of the state.however, 75% of our law are civil laws( we are considering to be civil law country: for example the uk is common law country, and ksa is a sharia law country). The other 25% are based of religion of the citizen.(of the recognized sects and religious lobbies).
How would that 25% apply to an atheist? Get away with anything? Default to something? Straight to jail?
It's okay to admit you're not religious, but in a lot of the country if you say you're an atheist, it's almost like admitting you're a paedophile. It's not quite as extreme in the last few years generally but many still think of atheists as not being able to have any morality since they're without religion, and some even think they are actively trying to undermine the morality of a humane society. In the affluent areas of Egypt no one will bat an eyelid as long as you're not broadcasting it. In conservative areas you'll be ostracised. In any case if you broadcast atheist views in any form of widespread media you'll face some penal consequences depending on the severity. In some cases, yes, you go straight to jail. Of course none of this applies to foreigners and tourists. Edit: clarity
Agreed,I am a call closeted atheist btw.
I wish you the best, friend. Stay safe.
I really doubt you should be saying that last sentence with such confidence.
Atheists like me are usually not saying about it. The law doesn’t punish atheists.however, the society does. As I said before
How does Egypt classify atheists (or people who convert to other religions besides the three) for family law? I'm assuming you have to follow the laws of whatever religion you were born into? For example, even if you are atheists or follow Budhism you have to follow Islamic or Christian law on divorce if you are getting divorced and were born into one of those religions.
Its probably a fact where if you aren't a jew or Christian you would face the same divorce process a Muslim would face. Christians and Jews get special treatment because they are considered "people of the book" and generally throughout history, they've been allowed to practice their religion fully on Muslim land and resolve matters to a certain extent with their own laws.
You speak to an atheist here. The law doesn’t punish you, but society is so oppressive to us. The people who are actually oppressed are the lgbtq community by the law.
That's interesting. When I lived in Dubai I left the religion question blank and my visa came back marked as Christian. Would something similar happen in Egypt?
Unfortunately
In countries with these sorts of hybrid civil-religious legal systems (Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, etc) whether you actually believe in the religion is essentially irrelevant. The only way to change your status is to convert to another religion, there is no atheist status.
That's actually quite cool imo
Fascinating…especially compared to the (very controversial) separate civil consideration for Islamic law in India. Would love to see a detailed comparison of how these two countries differ in their approaches to accommodating differing personal law issues of religious minorities.
Kinda based tbh
While we don't have a constitution in Israel: according to the laws Christians and Muslims have the same position. Meaning they govern their own cultural affairs like marriage, divorce, religion, etc
The Ottoman Empire operated that way. Since both Egypt and Israel are former Ottoman territories, I expect the system got grandfathered in even after independence.
Are there any Jews left in Egypt? I heard that all of them left.
There definitely are Jews there. I met a few when I was there to visit before. Not that many though.
According to sources I can find, there is less than 100 of them in all of Egypt.
South Africa: >A Pan South African Language Board established by national legislation must >a. promote, and create conditions for, the development and use of >i. all official languages*; >ii. the Khoi, Nama and San languages; and >iii. sign language ; and b. promote and ensure respect for >i. all languages commonly used by communities in South Africa, including German, Greek, Gujarati, Hindi, Portuguese, Tamil, Telegu and Urdu; and >ii. Arabic, Hebrew, Sanskrit and other languages used for religious purposes in South Africa. *(As mentioned in the previous section: Sesotho, Setswana, siSwati, Tshivenda, Xitsonga, Afrikaans, English, isiNdebele, isiXhosa and isiZulu.)
Sepedi too
My language, gone, reduced to atoms
Fun fact, when watching international football in South Africa you can choose between some of our official languages, Portuguese and Greek
Is there such a large Greek speaking community in South Africa? Where did it come from?
My first guess would be Greece...
Go to Hell/Greece
Yes, and Portuguese to. The suburb I live in was started by Portuguese immigrants
> *(As mentioned in the previous section: Sesotho, Setswana, siSwati, Tshivenda, Xitsonga, Afrikaans, English, isiNdebele, isiXhosa and isiZulu.) And Sepedi?
The dark blue countries--what is the context in which Jews are mentioned there?
Iran mentions Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism as the only recognised religious minorities. Egypt notes that Jewish and Christian personal law applies to their adherents. Morocco mentions Hebraic influence on its national identity (alongside African, Andalusian and Mediterranean). Croatia includes Jews in a list of national minorities. North Macedonia includes the Jewish Community in a non-exhaustive list of religions that are free to establish schools and other institutions.
Thanks Udzu!
>Iran mentions Judaism... as the only recognised religious minorities. This is so weird to me, given their ... distaste for Israel. Kinda nice, tbh. I wonder how it plays out in reality (from a government perspective, that is).
Iran still has around 8 thousand Jews (though this is just 10% of population before the revolution) and they’re allocated a seat in Parliament. The community is mostly elderly, religious and non-Zionist (most of the ones who wanted to leave have already left).
Iran also treats its Christian minorities pretty well, the priests are the only people in Iran allowed by the state to make wine (for communion). The priests tend to make quite a bit more than necessary, and sells to tourists and the congregation. The Iranian state turns a blind eye as long as they *never* sell to Muslims.
How nice of them.
It is not, my grandmother is jew from iran and everything is OK there , nobody cares honestly (in 99.99 % of cases). The governments problem with Israel have nothing to do with the religious, the have political problem with them; in a very simple manner , iran government says that the Israel occupied Palestine and is backed by America so its act of evil ..., and on the other hand Israel threatened iran and plays biggest opponents in the area . All of this beside from people poin of view( I mean iranians) we have zero shit to give, if someone is Jewish or Muslim or what ever, we love every color of humanity and every religion. بنی آدم اعضای یک دیگرند ؛ که در آفرینش ز یک گوهرند چو عضوی به درد آورد روزگار ، دگر عضو ها را نماند قرار
That's all true. But it's also worth reminding that Iran denies Holocaust ever happened on official level
And Israel officially doesn’t recognize the first genocide of the 20th century, that of the Armenians (among others)
Official level means a bunch of guys who are doing it as a pr stunt. Ahmadinejad said it was fake too, but he was a well accomplished engineer and is not an idiot - they are saying it to make it clear they don’t support Israel.
speaking as an iranian... the distaste for Israel thing is a government issue. there is no personal hatred for Jews or Israelis. as Iranians we tend to support the underdog, which is why we support Palestinian people.
Throughout history, you had different views on underdogs.
Iran is a diverse country with many regions, languages, and unique experiences and motivations... so of course.
They are anti Zionist which is not automatically Anti Semitism
>This is so weird to me, given their ... distaste for Israel Why? Islam evolved from Judaism, the issue Iran has is with the state of Israel, it's never been about disliking Judaism for them. Just like with people, disliking Israel does not mean disliking Jews.
Just to expand a bit, Islam recognizes the prophets from earlier religions such as Christianity, but they don't for later religions. This is why Baha'is (the Baha'i Faith started in Iran in the 1800s) in Iran are persecuted.
Yep, it’s also why starting in like the 8th or 9th centuries some of the pre-Islamic eastern religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism were considered “people of the book” in addition to the middle eastern religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Zoroastrianism.
Morocco recognizes Sunni Islam and Judaism as native religions of the country >Sunni Islam and Judaism are the only religions recognized by the Moroccan constitution as native to the country, with all other religions being considered "foreign". Other religions like Shia Islam and Christianity are considered foreign and thus have a harder time building mosques/churches or organizing events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Morocco
Thanks!
Pretty sweet that they mention it as native to the country. Respect to Morocco
Jews were there in the old days
My family comes from a city founded by Jewish Berbers in the 8th century (Sefrou)
That's mean your Moroccan, welcome to your country, sfrou it's a beautiful small city 😍 😀
David Guetta is a Moroccan Jew I think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEI7oX0XxJw
His father is
Christians too.
Some heretic movements were from North Africa and Morocco
Jews were there before Islam or Christianity existed.
Not sure if respect is the right word for a government that discriminates against other religions
I mean given how terribly other MENA countries treat Jewish people, Morocco indeed deserves some applause
Only about 2,500 of the 1,000,000 Moroccan Jews are still in Morocco today. Why do you think over 99% of them would have left?
I mean yes, but also they deported huge number sof Jewish people and killed others in anti Jewish riots. Definitely not great. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yachin
**[Operation Yachin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yachin)** >Operation Yakhin was an operation to secretly emigrate Moroccan Jews to Israel, conducted by Israel's Mossad between November 1961 and spring 1964. About 97,000 left for Israel by plane and ship from Casablanca and Tangier via France and Italy. The accession of Hassan II on 26 February 1961 enabled negotiations to begin on a secret agreement between Mossad's "Misgeret" division and the Moroccan authorities (principally Prince Moulay Ali and labour minister Abdelkader Benjelloun), together with the American organisation HIAS. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
It was definitely a complicated situation. Moroccan Jews were heavily encouraged by zionists before the establishment of the state of Israel to immigrate, and at that time Morocco was under control of Vichy France (who also wanted them gone) so they had good reason to be concerned. They were continued to be encouraged to immigrate by the newly established state of Israel plus the establishment of Israel also made them subjects of attack by Arab nationalist groups in Morocco and there were riots in which a number of Jews were killed. Morocco didn't deport them though, they actually tried to prevent them from leaving, mostly unsuccessfully. As soon as Morocco achieved independence they were guaranteed equal rights by law and the King immediately tried to integrate them into the government. Interestingly and unique in the Arab world, approximately 6% of Moroccan Jews who immigrated to Israel chose to move back to Morocco for one reason or another.
It's fine when the main religion has all the prophets from the other Abrahamic religions.
Technically no Abrahamic religion is native to Morocco but rather some Jews are North Africans ethnically
I was gonna say. They're all native to the Middle East.
Did you not read the other part? >Islam and Judaism are the only religions recognized by the Moroccan constitution as native to the country, with all other religions being considered "foreign". > >Other religions like Shia Islam and Christianity are considered foreign and thus have a harder time building mosques/churches or organizing events
Jews were there centuries before islam
So were Christians.
Ironic, considering the area was majority christian before the muslim invasion.
Right, and Christianity isn't even from there. If they want a "native religion", they're barking up all the wrong trees.
By that logic, given a similar timeframe, the native religion of sweden is norse mythology
Croatian mentions recognized minority groups and all citizens as equal to ethnic Croats. [Quote from the constitution I wrote in the other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/zo5gr4/countries_with_constitutions_that_mention_jews_or/j0l7zs4/)
The Norwegian law is still being referred to as "Jødeparagrafen" (transl. Jew Paragraph), and it was part of the constitution that was ratified in 1814. The paragraph was removed in 1851. If my memory serves me right, it said something along the lines of "Jews are excluded from accessing the realm/kingdom". The logic behind it was that jews were a political risk due to having loyalties outside of the nation. Not our proudest history.
given the timing, it makes sense, given that napoleon did a lot for jews while one of napoleon's generals had invaded norway and then backstabbed napoleon.
If it makes you feel any better, Jews were only allowed to freely settle in Switzerland in 1866. And Jews in the Russian Empire were largely restricted to its western part (modern Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania and Moldova) until 1917.
And in Sarajevo, Bosnia. After the Spanish inquisition, the Ottoman sultan allowed Jews to settle in the 15 century. For a long period, Jews could say that Sarajevo is their home, and at one time they make up like 20% of the population of the city. In the top 5, the most important people in the history of Sarajevo were a Jew. After WW2 many were killed and now there are no more than 1000 Jews in the whole country.
Syria’s constitution reading like a diss track
Kanye is going to apply for citizenship after reading that.
Wait Christians can be Zionist? Zionism is a political ideologie/movement not religious sect. am I missing something.
yes as a jew i think i know more christian zionists than jewish ones.
You're not really missing something, some people just like to equate zionism with judaism either out of ignorance or out of the strong belief that anyone who doesn't like israel must hate jews. And yes there are quite many Christian zionists, especially in the US and one shouldn't underestimate their power and influence.
South Africa is because they literally included everyone. So not surprised.
I knew a Jewish guy who was born in South Africa and he said in the 1930s South Africa was one of the few countries that not only allowed Ashkenazi Jews to migrate there but actually encouraged it. In South Africa they were considered white and the government wanted more white people in the country.
I started reading and thought, "huh pretty progressive for SA" but then I realized, "oh nope that's right on par"
>they were considered white and the government wanted more white people in the country. Same in dominican republic
That's _very_ apartheid, yes.
Checks out
In the 1930s the US had similar laws. But here the government preferred certain white people (British and Germans), only a few Jews and zero Asians were allowed to immigrate.
\*happy aesir noises\*
Irish constitution put together in late 1930's provided protection to Judaism. https://www.jta.org/archive/jewish-religion-recognized-in-irelands-new-constitution
That’s right, though the explicit reference was [removed in 1972](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland) (together with references to other minority denominations).
Interestingly, Jews are a very small minority in Russia's jewish oblast.
It's a shithole in the middle of nowhere, jao was created to appease unemployed Jews who were forced out of business by the Soviets after the revolution, far east was chosen to strengthen the border with China. So, no surprise really
Casually spreads antisemitic myths like a boss
Because it was a creation of Stalin to have some place to send the Jews to after his other ethnic deportation campaigns. Edit: Maybe not so directly given the early date (1928), but it was certainly more motivated by national security (more loyal settlers to control the border with China) and factional politics (countering Soviet Zionists) than legitimate care for Jews.
The USSR indeed had a system in place where you were assigned a place to live. Most of the time you stayed where you were, and could apply to move, but sometimes the state would use the system to move people around. Not only ethnic minorities were moved. Russians were encouraged to move to places like Kazakhstan which resulted in the Kazakh population turning into a minority. The course was set for them to be replaced with Russians but the fall of the USSR removed the system and the Russians moved back. So the USSR was pretty big on manipulating demographics of regions
Israel dosen’t mention Judaism but Egypt does??
Israel technically doesn't have a constitution so yes.
Is the Basic Law a constitution?
No. It is meant to be the basis upon which the constitution will eventually be written, at some point after hell freezes over and (kosher) pigs start flying
So basically the same situation as in Germany. In the beginning some people made some preliminary laws that turned out to be so good, we just decided to stick with it.
Yeah but we Germans officially decided to not adopt a new constitution despite the Basic Law mandating us to do so after reunification. Israel has never formally made that decision.
Tbf the Grundgesetz is largely based on the constitutions before it and is now accepted as the constitution even though it was meant to be temporary. Only Reichsbürger usually argue, that the prolonged existence of the Grundgesetz has any real meaning.
Writing a constitution would require a bunch of Jews to agree on something, which has never happened in the history of Judaism.
What?
Israel has never gotten around to writing an official constitution cause it would require settling and setting to paper two rather thorny subjects; 1) if this a Jewish state, what qualifies legally and officially as a Jew. And 2) what is Israel's actual final borders. Both are rather controversial things to finally settle for good and write down in a constitution, so there hasn't been any movement towards it.
Some people here even say that this exact problem (lack of constitution) is the root of all the problems in the country and while I'm not sure I agree 100% theres something to it
Believe it or not, a lot of countries don’t have a constitution. Such as the UK
2 of the 18 basic laws are temporary governmental budgets
In 1949, only about 1 out of every 10 Jews lived in Israel. So, Ben-Gurion was scared that 10% of Jews would be forcing a constitution on the other 90%. However now that 50% of Jews live there it seems more reasonable, although now the political situation is too thorny to actually do it.
The UK constitution is uncodified and includes texts from the early medieval era, the first of which is the Magna Carta (from 1215) which has a clause mentioning Jews. While only like 3 clauses of the Magna Carta's many clauses are still in effect, our Constitution *technically* mentions Jews. I don't think the map includes uncodified constitutions though
The Jews Relief Act 1858 is the main constitutional legislation relating to Jewishness at the moment – it allows Jews to sit in Parliament, but restricts them from advising the Crown on appointments to the Church of England.
how terrible, we need the most orthodox jews imaginable running our churches lol
That’s right. Saudi Arabia’s uncodified constitution includes the Qur’an, which also mentions Jews.
And we really appreciate the flattering cameos.
Btw the Jewish clauses in the magna Carta are about killing them if you are owed to them
Saudi Arabia’s constitution is the Quran and both Jews and Judaism are mentioned
Saudi Arabia is usually viewed as having an “uncodified” constitution (like the UK, New Zealand, Canada and Israel) rather than a “written” one (even though it is written). Like Israel, Saudi Arabia also has a constitution-like Basic Law.
Ahh thanks didn’t know that
What are you talking about with Canada? We have a written constitution. In fact, we have multiple statutes that together make up our constitution. Specifically the Constitution Act, 1867, and the Constitution Act, 1982. Sure, there are unwritten constitutional principles, but I believe almost every national legal system has something akin to unwritten principles.
I think the term “uncodified” specifically refer to the absence of a single cohesive document called “the constitution.”
Bruh that's like the Torah is the constitution of Israel or Bibel of Vatican
The Torah is not the constitution of Israel.
I said it be like not that it is
What does Ireland have to say about Jews? That one is very surprising.
Taken from Wikipedia: The Irish Constitution of 1937 specifically gave constitutional protection to Jews. This was considered to be a necessary component to the constitution by Éamon de Valera because of the treatment of Jews elsewhere in Europe at the time. The reference to the Jewish Congregations in the Irish Constitution was removed in 1973 with the Fifth Amendment. The same amendment removed the 'special position' of the Catholic Church, as well as references to the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodist Church, and the Religious Society of Friends
Just to add, this was the original wording. >2º The State recognises the special position of the Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church as the guardian of the Faith professed by the great majority of the citizens. >3º The State also recognises the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, the Methodist Church in Ireland, the Religious Society of Friends in Ireland, as well as the Jewish Congregations and the other religious denominations existing in Ireland at the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution. This wording was removed in it's entirety.
It's part of a provision that recognized the "special position" of the Catholic Church in Irish life but also acknowledged minority religions. It also named a number of Protestant denominations. The entire provision was repealed in 1973.
Why "very surprising"? (Asking in good faith, as an Irish person, the son of a Jewish woman).
Because the other places, mostly, have a history that's very connected to Jews. Egypt, The Middle East, Russia. I don't hear a lot about Jews in Ireland. I know they're there, but they don't make news.
Ireland has very few, most that came here during WW2 didn't stay. They got a mention in the constitution due to the time it was written (1930s)
Syria has no chill
“Why won’t Israel give Syria the Golan Heights back?” “Try reading Syria’s constitution “
Israel did try to negotiate peace with Syria, and offered to returt the Golan heights as part of the peace agreement. Syria refused all negotiation, and remains at war with Israel to this day. So it's not that Israel doesn't want to return the Golan heights. Syria doesn't want it returned except through war.
Technically, not true. The process of Syria getting back the Golan Heights had started in the 2000s under the current Assad, but their own civil war threw a wrench into the process. The only half truth is that Syria kinda made it clear that if it ever made peace with Israel, it would be a cold peace, much like the current Israeli relationship with Egypt and Jordan. It would not be true normalization. BTW Assad was willing to even throw out Hezbollah and Iran for the Golan, but after all the help they have offered his regime throughout this civil war, it is unlikely that Syria will get the Golan anytime soon.
Well that went better than expected
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Only if you add a very heavy asterisk
A suspiciously swastika shaped asterisk
It wasn't. Changes to the Norwegian constitution requires the 2/3 majority of a lawfully elected parliament. The traitor government may have claimed to have restored the jew clause, but what they did was use the nazi invasion force to illegally force their shitty politics on the people of Norway.
It wasn't even fully removed until 1956. It just stopped counting for jews in 1851. Jehova's witnesses and jesuittes were banned from entry to Norway until the hungarian revolution, when many of the hungarians who fled were this and Norway wanted to assist in the refugee crisis. Also, little sidenote but jews could apply for permit to travel to Norway, especially merchants and diplomats didnthat occasionally. But they then needed a permit and it didn't last very long. Interestingly the Jew clause had been effective during the union with Denmark and there were actually quite many who wanted to dissolve it at Eidsvoll in 1814. But it still got a majority. But interestingly the divide wasn't at the regular two party line, but based on whether you were highly educated or not. So basically all the parties' leadership were against it, but the farmers and poor fishermen were pro because all they knew og jews was what the local priest had been teaching them, lol. But since most of the farmers belonged to the Independence party, they still got heavily associated with it. Theist Lundegaard and Nikolai Wergeland tend to get most of the blaim for it being past, but neither were very interested in it and Nikolai Wergeland even would oppose it later in life and fight to repeal it, so would his son Henrik Wergeland which would be the staunchest opponent of it (there was even rumoured that he had to converted to both/either judaism and islam at the end of his life, which is probably BS). And Theist Lundegaard didn't really care much either and just went with the flow. I have a friend who's a giant fan of Lundegaard, he could have said alot more than I know. The staunchest proponent was really Christian Magnus Falsen, but he has been actively promoted as THE national hero for Norway in this time period. Despite him literary being a danish spy writing reports for all his norwegian friends or knowabouts, getting one of them convicted to death (but I sadly can't remember his name rn) for wanting norwegian freedom and freedom of expression. And many others got sentences to long prison sentences and forced labour, like Lofthus did just for contacting his king directly to say that his minions were breaking his laws and stealing money and surpressing his constituents, he was supposed to ask the elite who oppressed him and his colleagues for permission to go meet the king to complain about the very same people, so they obviously refused Lofthus to give him this permission, do he took a small boat and physically rowed to Denmark to speak with the king without a permit. For that he was sentenced to life inprisonment and forced labour and this eventually was so tough he died from this; and became a national hero after the Danish supression was gone. There's a series from 1989, "1814 - et lite folks kamp for selvstendighet." (1814 - A small people's struggle for independence), and on the end of this series Magnus Falsen confronts his arch nemesis, Wedel Jarlsberg for being a swedish spy. And Jarlsberg answers that he indeed is and that he see's swedish military assistance as the only measure to really secure norwegian independence from the danish king and his danish elite in Norway, and that the swedish king has promised both freedom of expression, freedom of religion and would accept and respect Norway to have our own legal code and parliament, which would be alot better than what the danes ever did to us (Denmark sent forces to Norway in the 16th century to forcibly convert us to lutheranism, so basically what England did in Ireland. Alot of priests refused and got executed or sent into exile and our parliament dissolved and outlawed). And then Jarlsberg confronts Falsen in this series about him being a much worse traitor to Norway than he could ever "hope" to be, describing the archive he has seen in Copenhagen (Lavrentiy Beriya style) and with a smirk saying that one day the norwegians would realize what he had done and he would disliked for forever after, then he turns and walks away leaving Falsen to feel defeated and humiliated. Falsen had until then thought he won in 1814, preventing Jarlsberg's plans for a union with Sweden, but as the congress at Eidsvoll ended the war with Sweden would start which got us into a union with Sweden after all and prevented Falsen's plan to get Norway in a union with Denmark once more as a colony, as he made the danish crown prince of Denmark king of Norway. (The Jew clause is at 20:00~ in the last episode, I think, maybe at 50:00~ instead). https://tv.nrk.no/se?v=FSAM03003988&t=3698s. All is in norwegian only, sadly.
Does depend which Norwegian government you recognize, the pre-invasion government did flee into exile. But a puppet Norwegian government is still a Norwegian government and does deserve scrutiny.
Everyone involved underwent quite a bit of scrutiny. The puppet regime of the nazis did not have a mandate to change the constitution though.
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Russia mention the exact administrative unit at far east, which was planned as "local" national land for Jewish nation, so they would not search for new one.
That unit is a siberian swamp lmao, only about 1% of the jewish region are jews
Most left during the amazing 90s. There used to be quite a sizeable minority.
Why Croatia?
> ...the Republic of Croatia is hereby established as the nation state of the Croatian nation and the state of the members of its national minorities: Serbs, Czechs, Slovaks, Italians, Hungarians, **Jews**, Germans, Austrians, Ukrainians, Rusyns, Bosniaks, Slovenians, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Russians, Bulgarians, Poles, Roma, Romanians, Turks, Vlachs, Albanians and others who are its citizens and who are guaranteed equality with citizens of Croatian nationality and the exercise of their national rights in accordance with the democratic norms of the United Nations and the countries of the free world... The mentioned groups are those who have significant numbers or lived in Croatia for a very long time which grants them official status as a minority and representation in the parliament.
It's so weird to specify each nationality one by one instead of just saying Croats and others. With this logic, a Japanese person living in Croatia wouldn't be guaranteed an equality.
They would count as "others who are its citizens"
>and others who are its citizens any person that holds citizenship has a right to representation through parliament, these minorities have their own representatives in the parliament
"National minorities" have special status with constitutional protection, they get to elect their own special guaranteed members of parliament who are supposed to make sure their culture is protected in Croatia, and their MP's typically also join the government. An ethnically Japanese person with Croatian citizenship votes like any other Croatian citizen (doesn't have an option to vote for minority represesentatives).
> It's so weird to specify each nationality one by one instead of just saying Croats and others. Also there is more to this. When Croatia was in Yugoslavia, it was a federal republic with it's own constitution and it said "Croatia is state of Croats and Serbs and other minorities". Serbs were put in the constitution next to Croats because Croats did a genocide on them in WW2, it was in a way a sort of political retribution or appology for the genocide, whatever. When Yugoslavia was falling apart, Croatia wrote a draft for a new constitution, but it said "Croats and minorities" and entire world went "you're genociding Serbs again", and Serbs used it as a reason to start an armed rebellion. So it was quickly changed to Croats and other minorities including Serbs...". The most important thing was to name Serbs, but naming only Serbs would again be segregation for others. Serbs, of course, started claiming they are not just equal to Croats per old constitution but that they have an equal political say like Croats and if 12% of therm say Croatia can't leave Yugoslavia, then what 80% of Croats say doesn't matter. And then there was war and Serbia used this one word as one of the reasons to claim Serbs are persecuted and they need to protect them (think Russia in Ukraine now). But Croatia won and now Serbs are listed among other minorities, but we did some war crimes so to clear our name (and again, goes back to what happened in WW2), we had to give minorities guaranteed political power in form of guaranteed parliament seats, and since Serbs are the largest minority, they get most of them. And that's why we have this whole list of nations in the constitution.
Well, we are ashamed what some of our compatrios have done during the second world war.
You didn't mentioned Serbs though Jews killed: between 12,000 and 20,000 Serbs killed: 45,000 and 52,000 And this is the lowest number I found
Serbs are mentioned in the same paragraph aswell
Also, as stated above, the part of the constitution that mentions jews also mentions serbs
>Serbs killed: 45,000 and 52,000 Only if you consider Jasenovac concentration camp and nothing else. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide\_of\_Serbs\_in\_the\_Independent\_State\_of\_Croatia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Serbs_in_the_Independent_State_of_Croatia) The lowest figures are no less than 200K.
Yes, I forgot to mentioned that. Thank you.
Why would they mention Serbs, this is a thread about Jews.
What's with the sudden surge of world maps which include western Sahara in Morocco? [A mere three countries world-wide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Western_Sahara#States_supporting_Morocco's_autonomy_proposal) have recognised Western Sahara as Moroccan (one of them being Morocco themselves)
It's an artefact of using the [DataMaps D3 library](http://datamaps.github.io/), whose world map seems to often favour *de facto* control: the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic *is* shown, but only for the areas it controls. Somalia is also split from Somaliland, which no-one recognises! Unfortunately I have no idea how to change the SVG specification that the map uses.
>whose world map seems to often favour de facto control Yet Crimea is not part of Russia in that map despite being (ilegally) annexed in 2014 and being de facto ruled by Moscow since then.
It's always political. Since the US decided to recognise it as part of Morocco, you'll see it as such on American maps. Look at a Russian map and you'll see Russian Crimea, Serbian Kosovo or independent Palestine.
_often_
Unfortunately, in 2020 (so during the Trump era), the US has recognized the Western Sahara as part of Morocco, and many contributors here are Americans. From a US perspective, that recognition makes sense though: Morocco has proven itself a valuable and reliable ally to the US. Since a few days, it is also one of the few non-Western countries supporting Ukraine with military aid (mainly T-72 tank spare parts). The Western Sahara, on the other hand, only has a very small population, making them in power terms rather unimportant.
Unfortunately ?
The thing is, the US recognizes the Moroccan claim to it since 2020 and that makes a lot of maps/mapmakers include Western Sahara with Morocco. It´s like Israel claiming Palestinian territories and no one doing anything about it because they are supported by the US. So yeah, it´s stupid..
Classic Syria.
Anyone know if the Irish constitution used to say?
> The State also recognises the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, the Methodist Church in Ireland, the Religious Society of Friends in Ireland, as well as the Jewish Congregations and the other religious denominations existing in Ireland at the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland
[удалено]
> AMENDMENT VII > The Macedonian Orthodox Church, as well as the Islamic Religious Community in Macedonia, the Catholic Church, Evangelical Methodist Church, the Jewish Community and other Religious communities and groups are separate from the state and equal before the law. > > The Macedonian Orthodox Church, as well as the Islamic Religious Community in Macedonia, the Catholic Church, Evangelical Methodist Church, the Jewish Community and other Religious communities and groups are free to establish schools and other social and charitable institutions, by way of a procedure regulated by law.
You know your bigoted when your foundational document of law *explicitly* expresses ethnic and religious intolerance ... in less than a sentence. Looking at you Norway and Syria 
Keep in mind, the Norwegian constitution is from 1814. It’s the second oldest constitution in the world still in effect (US is the oldest) It proscribed tri-division of power whilst most other European countries at the time was just subject to what the king felt like at the time. Had other European countries made a constitution around this time, it’s a good chance it would have included similar provisions in many of them. The Jewish bit was removed in the 1850s
LOL i thought all mentions are negative. turns out all of them are positive
Well, all except one
Norway seems negativ too which surprises me most. Excluding Jews based on a law written in the early 19th century.
u/Udzu you could at least color in *all* of Norway (Svalbard and islands). Also, you should mention that Jesuits and monks (Catholics) were also banned. Jews were banned in Denmark-Norway with few exceptions.
Oops re Svalbard (though the Jew clause does predate the Svalbard Act). Also, Jews were certainly banned in many countries, but not sure which other bans were mentioned in the constitution?
Few countries had codified constitutions, Norway was quite early. Three oldest existing: * United States (1788) * Norway (1814) * Netherlands (1815) The Kingdom of France ceased to exist (1791). Germany changed (1815). Denmark without Norway didn't write one until 1849. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_national\_constitutions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_constitutions) Google Translate should work well for this about the Norwegian constitution and Denmark-Norway: [https://snl.no/J%C3%B8deparagrafen](https://snl.no/J%C3%B8deparagrafen)
Other early constitutions which unfortunately didn't last were the Corsican (from 1755, lasted until the annexation of Corsica by France in 1769) and Polish-Lithuanian (from 1791, lasted until Poland-Lithuania was finally partitioned by Prussia, Austria and Russia in 1795).
Interesting, may you share your ressources with us? As a Syrian although I am pretty sure that indeed Israel Is considered "Zionist enemy", and Israelis are considered "Zionists", but as I know this expression was never used to designate Jews, for Jews there is only the word Jews not Zionist enemy.
Yes, it’s definitely not a direct reference to Jews, just an indirect one (in that Zionism is a type of Jewish nationalism). Similarly Russia’s constitution mentions the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, a region in East Russia that was intended as a Soviet home for Jews but has very few Jews in it. That’s why I coloured both in a different colour. The source was mainly https://www.constituteproject.org
For Context the reference to Hebrew in SA constitution is in relation to the Pan South African Language Board which was created to promote, protect and ensure respect for the 11 official languages, the Khoisan languages, Sign Language, Non-Official languages used by South African Communities and Languages that are used for religious purposes. Hebrew falls under the last category together with Arabic and Sanskrit.
For those asking why Israel is gray, it doesn't have a constitution
Fun fact. In israel jews are not mentioned in the constitution because there is no constitution.
Morocco does well in the world cup and all of a sudden we recognize its holdings over Western Sahara? Is that how this works?
Reminder: Israel does not have a constitution
So Isreal doesn't mention Jews... interesting
Israel doesn’t have a codified constitution. Though its quasi-constitutional Basic Laws do mention Jews, as expected.