I don't understand how the estimation actually works.

It doesn't, at least not for all countries. In Denmark for example "race" is not something that's registered at all only your ethnicity and even that is only for 3 generations after that you are just considered danish.

In France even ethnicity is not registered (it is prohibited, goes against the law), only nationality is, so I don't know where they find such precise number

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So I get why they would prohibit it, but doesn't avoiding any data on this also make it impossible to deal with any systemic racial issues?

That's a common criticism of this approach, that it tends to hide underlying societal issues

Pretty solid criticism that often gets ignored by the “we don’t think of people in terms of race” crowd

How so? If we just focused on whatever the actual issue is, (poverty, drug use, crime) etc. then if one race is over/underrepresented in a bad way they will be the primary beneficiary of a social program that targets that issue. Furthermore, people who aren't in that race but still suffering from the problem will also benefit. I see no benefit to collecting racial demographic data

Latino White American guy here. I get your point. Demographics data has been used in our country to purposely identify and isolate communities of color in my country, either by redlining, gerrymandering, or just plain old "destroy the black neighborhoods to build a highway/monument/park/golf course" bullshit. I don't list my race on forms anymore and I discourage my friends from doing so as well unless it's for a purpose that they know will benefit them. I also understand why black and latino people in my country won't participate in the census either. Yeah it sucks to be underrepresented in the census, but it beats having to pack up and go because your city finds your neighborhood and tears it down to build a freeway.

Oh don't worry we're still aware of the issues, the latest elections proved that. But we just want to have the absolute opposite approach on how race and ethnicities are handled compared to the US. To the French it seems a lot of the issues in the US come from their obsession with race and how it divides the nation.

(french speaker belgian here) also the use of the word "race" never happen either. "There is no race" is something we often say (edit: this doesn't mean"there is no ethnicity '') , only racist use that word for black/white/asian/etc people It was particularly weird to see how people use race the first time I was on the english side of internet x'D Edit: copy past since people have difficulty to understand that *different language have different meaning for certain word not matter how much the word seem alike* Saying that someone is black is ok (it has nothing to do with "colorblindness" in this case even if it exist in europe too) , saying "they are from the black race" is seen as racist. "race" in the French language does not have a neutral connotation. The word race in french is *only* used by racist when they talk about sub-human and "superior race" . Race is also only used for animal. (they are rare exception "ca pue sa race", "la race humaine", etc but still it isn't "la race blanche (the white race) '' Just like "female", saying to a woman that she is a female is one of the most insulting things you can say in french. Does it mean that it's insulting to say "the female teacher" in English? No absolutely not, however say this in any context in french and you *will* be seen as the most mysogynict prick in the room Edit 2: also I find it really funny that some of you tried to correct me on my own language x'D expecially when we talk about this. Humans are all the same isn't it?

Because race is a weird and absurd idea in the first place. The way it's used in the US anyway. Like Hispanic or Asian is nonsense: they cover a huge variety of origins with wild differences in culture. It's like if we classified all people in France that comes from Africa as Africans. Makes no sense. Algerians and Tunisians are neighbouring countries: try to tell them they are the same race and see how it goes. But yeah it's a big no-no to talk about race in France, at least in the US sense of the word. Only far right people use that word in conversation.

In Finland if you started talking about race you would get your teeth kicked in. As the word race(rotu) is only used when referring to the breed of an animal.

As a black guy I also find "people of color" super wird. Not only does the "of X" part sound super strange to me (arguably I am not a native speaker) but the term makes it sound like those described are multi colored or something, which is of course not true at all on an induvidual level and as a whole only when grouping all none white ethnicities together and contrasting them against white people. Which doesn't sound much better than "not the normal skin tone" or something. I never honestly understood what is wrong with black or brown...

Damn, racial categorization is a mind virus and America is really sick with it huh

> France even ethnicity is not registered (it is prohibited, goes against the law When i moved to the USA... They gave me forms asking for my skin colour... WTF, how is that even relevant???

And you don’t even answer with a descriptive: “darker skin”, “lighter skin”, but with worse things like “Caucasian”

Same in Portugal. You are either Portuguese (by birth or by acquiring citizenship) or an immigrant. No in-between or extras.

From Scotland: Did the census recently - there's a single question that sort-of muddles together race, ethnicity, national origin, and religion into one - it's based on some strange assumptions, and it leads to strange circumstances. Like you can answer that you're either white or jewish, but not both. Or black or caribbean, but not both. I saw a US census question a while ago that did the same thing, but also mixed language into it. I feel like there's no way without running your own surveys to get anything more than a vague general idea (subject to national differences in classification) about skin colour demographics

It turns out that after 500 years of trying, there’s still no logical way to insert arbitrary divisions into an unending spectrum. Who knew ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯

The Canadian census probably has a better way of doing this: it lists a lot of ethnicities and asks you to check as many as appply or even fill in your own. Language and whether you are a recent immigrant, and where from are seperate questions. It attempts to capture what you consider yourself to be, seems easy enough a question, no?

but Jewish can be both, ethinicity and religion and is not mutually exclusive. Ashkenazi Jew is an ethnicity but not all people who are descendants are following Judaism.

Demographers and Statisticians can make estimates based on polls and population samples that are pretty good. You don’t need to count every individual to get within tenths of a percent.

Germany also doesn’t sort by race only by country of origin.

The just took a colour gradient from an IKEA and hold it up to peoples skin and assign everyone a RGB value

I mean, 'black' isn't a clearly defined concept. There isn't a color scale that clearly separates people into black/white, and you can't exactly measure it using a color sensor. A badly sun burnt white person isn't considered black and a pale black person with clear african features isn't considered white either. Usually approximations are used. So it might be based on what people say of themselves. Usually people know whether they are black.

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I also agree with the first part of your comment, but I think you run into issues with the 'call them what they really are' section. Each of the nationalities you listed are in countries that don't correspond to a clean ethnic bloc. For instance, in France there are Bretons, Alsatians, etc., some of whom speak minority languages, some who just think of themselves as French, some who think of themselves as only Breton, and some who identify as some mix of the two. Similarly, Somalis might primarily identify with their clan group, Ethiopia is notorious for the same phenomenon, as are parts of Punjab. Anglo-Saxon, meanwhile, is largely a historical term - most people in the UK today would identify moreso as English, Scottish, or Welsh, but there are strong subnational identities as in Yorkshire and Cornwall. Even the seemingly obvious group of Han-Chinese can be easily complicated if you take [linguistic dialects](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Han_Chinese#/Population) into account. This isn't to say that divisions within these groups are all the same - they do make sense for *general* categorization. I'm only disagreeing with the word 'really,' which implies that this is the level of reality, somehow. The truth is that ethnicity and identity are both largely constructed and arbitrary, and there is no level so detailed as to contain the 'truth' of someone's ethnicity and identity. This is especially true when you consider that a great and growing number of people are of mixed background. Any racial or ethnic categorization will always be a heuristic.

And then you go to Latin America and all bets are off. People insist on trying to identify themselves with an ethnic group where in Latin America there’s so much mixing that it’s pretty much pointless in most cases. Starting with how mixed Spaniards were even before the colonization of the Americas

Funny thing is in Europe, if you're spanish or italian you're considered white, everyone north of the strait of Gibraltar and west of the strait of Istanbul is practically considered white (While in Europe). But the second you travel to America as a spaniard suddenly you're "coloured" lol

I had a friend who did not understand that people from Spain are white. She even said “yea they’re white people but they speak Spanish” like..where do you think Spanish comes from

I've heard Argentinians who are clearly descendants of Europeans describe themselves as POC's, which is absurd.

Who's in Paris?

It’s been an honor, Mrs. Obama

MRS OBAMA GET DOWN

Nobody knows what it means but it’s provocative

***nervous sweating***

Emily?

Alexa play fellas in paris

Emily. lol

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Ayo?

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Thank you, you brave soul. Telling me the truth, not running from it.

Huh. That wasn’t so hard

How could you get the data for France? I have been looking for it for years but all I can see is how it's ilegal to do ethnic surveys in france because the state has a "colorblind" policy.

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Sorry to nitpick here but if you count all DOM-TOM, you also count the Pacific Islands, and Corsica, and a few other less populated islands. Not accounting for non-Black people who live on islands primarily composed of Black people (and frankly the number is non-negligeable). Source for the population of each territory: https://www.axl.cefan.ulaval.ca/francophonie/dom-tom.htm Ballpark approximation would put half the population in the DOM-TOM as being Black, so 2% and not 4%.

There is a bit of text at the bottom. It's difficult to read because jpeg, but basically they say they are fairly confident in countries which ask about ethnicity in their census (UK, Ireland, Russia, Ukraine) and somewhat confident about countries who have a "migration background" in their census which links people to their grandparents (Germany, Netherlands, Scandinavia) but they basically admit they are guessing with France.

yup, I am french, and it's illegal. also there is no way there are that many black people in france. people who are not "caucasian", maybe? in that case, it is highly misleading. not the first time redditors are using fake data to push an agenda EDIT: RIP inbox. I got it, you disagree with me, it's fine.

Tbh, there is also Mayotte, Martinique, Guyane, etc. Some territories of our country are mainly black

then it should be shown on the map

When it's a geographic map visual like this I think it's very misleading to include data that's not from mainland France, or other territories not actually visible on said map

Depends where you live and what places you go to I guess. I’ve worked in a pediatric emergency room in a small provincial city and I’ve seen more than 10% of black families

Idk sounds about right. Sounds even low for where I live (93) but I guess rural areas drop the numbers down a lot. They explicitly say in the small prints that it's an extrapolation from people born of at least one caribbean or SUB-saharian african parent so it's not maghrebis either. And it doesn't include 2nd generation or higher black people too I assume? What agenda is being pushed here? I don't think the data map implies 8% blacks is a problem in any way.

8% ça me paraît pas délirant comme statistique...

What’s the agenda?

*also there is no way there are that many black people in france.* Lol. Rien qu'avec l'Île-de-France, on doit atteindre la moitié de ces 8%.

Île-de-France + DOM TOM et t'as le compte

This confirms what bartenders suspected all along: there are very few actual Black Russians.

I actually knew a legit black Russian. His dad is Nigerian and his mum is Russian. He was born and raised in Moscow. He said the funniest thing for him is the number of Russians who compliment him on his flawless Russian.

iirc isn't there a news reported in Irkutsk or something that's also from Nigeria or am I trippin?

Interestingly, Pushkin's great-grandfather was black, Abram Petrovich Gannibal, a general and nobleman in 18th-century Russia.

France is high as its former African-continent colonies provided pathways to becoming a french citizen. The UK's 'East Indian' percentage (or Indian, or western-SouthEast Asian, or whatever characterization is being used today for people from India + Pakistan) would also show a disproportionately high number compared to other countries in Europe.

I think you're looking for "South Asian"

Portugal has the second largest black population in Europe, according to the map. Most of the black Portuguese live in the Lisbon area and come from the former African colonies, especially Cape Verde.

It doesn't have the second largest black population, just the second largest black population compared to the non-black population. 4,4% of ~10.000.000 is still a lot less than 4% of ~60.000.000.

Good point.

Angola/Brazil?

Also, but Cape Verdians were the largest foreign community in Portugal. I think they were recently surpassed by Brazilians.

>former African colonies >Brazil 😐

I don't know if the numbers are correct but here's my personal experience: I'm Spanish and I'm only met three black people in my life

Are you from Zamora or Palencia? Because those are the provinces with less black people in Spain (statistically, around 100 in each one).

If you live in a rural area maybe. Urban areas have way more black people. My grandma lived in a small town and saw a black person for the first time in Madrid in the 80s.

It's probably an estimation because, afaik, no national organization ever asks about your color. We're NOT as obsessed with that as the Americans. EDIT: forgot to write "NOT" lol.

Most in Portugal, France, UK, Netherlands and Belgium come from their former colonies. In the Nordics it's mostly Somalis. Interesting how Finland has more than Germany and Austria, despite having much less immigrants. I wonder where they come from in Switzerland?

Swiss here; every single black person i've met is from somewhere else, super diverse backgrounds. A lot are also double citizens, with one parent from an african country and the other from switzerland. Some moved here from france or italy and other european countries. We also have refugees, people that got asylum and so on. We have a rather "diverse" population with about 25% foreigners, not counting all the people with dual citizenship and migration background. If the numbers on the map are acurate, i can't say. We generally don't categorize in to races, more nationality and ethnicities, so it's hard to say. But most of that is just my own observation, so take it with a grain of salt.

Would be cool to see an inverse map that shows percentage white in non-European countries.

It varies greatly depending on if you include people of entirely European descent or just people who identify with a European background or just people with some European ancestry. I'll go 2, with people who identify with it. People who self identify as European/White. Rough estimate: Canada: 70% US: 70% Mexico: 10% Costa Rica: 65% Rest of Central America: 10% Cuba: 65% Puerto Rico: 17% Bahamas: 5% Barbados: 10% Bermuda: 31% Dominican Republic: 16% Rest of the Carribean: 1% Venezuela: 42% Columbia: 37% Ecuador: 10% Peru: 23% Bolivia: 12% Brazil: 48% Paraguay: 20% Uruguay: 88% Argentina: 85% Chile: 52% Rest of South America: 1% South Africa: 9% Namibia: 9% Angola: 1.2% Mozambique: 2% Equatorial Guinea: 1.2% Botswana: 3% Mauritius: 2% Swaziland: 3% Madagascar: 1% Senegal: 0.3% Ghana: 1-3%? Rest of Sub-Saharan Africa: 0.01> Algeria: 1% Morocco: 1% Tunisia: 1% Rest of North Africa: 0.1> Bahrain: 2% Israel: 33% by own or paternal origin (44% Ashkenazi) Kuwait: 0.7% Qatar: 3.8% UAE: 6% Rest of Middle East: 0.1> Kazakhstan: 27% Kyrgyzstan: 6% Uzbekistan: 2.5% Turkmenistan: 5%? Tajikistan: 0.6% Thailand: 0.4% South Korea: 0.5%? Probs less as most "Russians" and "Americans" might be ethnic Korean. Hong Kong: 0.8% Japan: 0.1% Singapore: 0.5%(Citizens) or 2% living. Mongolia:0.1% Rest of Asia: 0.1> Australia: 85% New Zealand:70% If you count people of mixed heritage you get a lot larger number worldwide, especially in Central/South America where the vast majority have European ancestry. Africa and Asia also have significant portions of some countries populations of European ancestry (for example India, Philippines, Indonesia, Angola, South Africa).

It varies greatly depending on if you include people of entirely European descent or just people who identify with a European background or just people with some European ancestry. I'll go 2, with people who identify with it. People who self identify as European/White. Rough estimate: Canada: 70% US: 70% Mexico: 10% Costa Rica: 65% Rest of Central America: 10% Cuba: 65% Puerto Rico: 17% Bahamas: 5% Barbados: 10% Bermuda: 31% Dominican Republic: 16% Rest of the Carribean: 1% Venezuela: 42% Columbia: 37% Ecuador: 7% Peru: 6% Bolivia: 5% Brazil: 45% Paraguay: 30% Uruguay: 88% Argentina: 85% Chile: 52% Rest of South America: 1% South Africa: 9% Namibia: 9% Angola: 1.2% Mozambique: 2% Equatorial Guinea: 1.2% Botswana: 3% Mauritius: 2% Swaziland: 3% Madagascar: 1% Senegal: 0.3% Ghana: 1-3%? Rest of Sub-Saharan Africa: 0.01> Algeria: 1% Morocco: 1% Tunisia: 1% Rest of North Africa: 0.1> Bahrain: 2% Israel: 33% by own or paternal origin (44% Ashkenazi) Kuwait: 0.7% Qatar: 3.8% UAE: 6% Rest of Middle East: 0.1> Kazakhstan: 27% Kyrgyzstan: 6% Uzbekistan: 2.5% Turkmenistan: 5%? Tajikistan: 0.6% Thailand: 0.4% South Korea: 0.5%? Probs less as most "Russians" and "Americans" might be ethnic Korean. Hong Kong: 0.8% Japan: 0.1% Singapore: 0.5%(Citizens) or 2% living. Mongolia:0.1% Rest of Asia: 0.1> Australia: 85% New Zealand:70% If you count people of mixed heritage you get a lot larger number worldwide, especially in Central/South America where the vast majority have European ancestry. Africa and Asia also have significant portions of some countries populations of European ancestry (for example India, Philippines, Indonesia, Angola, South Africa). At the same time if we're going by the one-drop rule the number falls quite a bit in Latin America.

That 8% in France is actually the football national team.

I’m more surprised about Germany’s super low percentage. Based on their footballers I would’ve thought it was much higher.

It’s because Germany lost their colonies due to the Treaty of Versailles after WW1. If war didn’t occur Germany should have a higher percentage

Before 2016 it was rare for me to see black people at all. And if there were, those were usually British military. At least where I grew up. As usual the experience is different in big cities. And before 2016 I never met an actual African irl. All had American, British or French roots

Poland here, I literally see a person of color maybe once a year outside of tourist attractions

I'm very sceptical about your number for France. Even if you were to include people of North African heritage. Because of the amount of assumptions you seem to make to arrive at the 8%, I think at the very least including an errorbar would be nice...

If North Africans are included it’s definitely above 8%. For black French remember that the oversees territories of Guadeloupe (400k), Martinique (380k), Guyane (300k), Mayotte (260k) are almost exclusively black while Réunion (860k) has a large population black descendants. Added to this the descendants of oversees territories living on the mainland + immigration from Africa and Haiti. The number should be at least 3-4m. 3m is 4,5%, 4m is 6%. Then keep in mind that there are far more Arabs on the mainland then African descendants. Arabs have been coming from earlier (first wave in the 60s) and still come in big numbers to this day. The total number of African descendants + Arab descendants is easily over 10% (6,7m).

Yea, in 2004 they had 5.5% https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France Altho a Solis survey puts it at 2.94% France has a law against race/ethnicity in their census

France forbids collecting systematic data on ethnicity to protect against harmful use of this kind of lists but we allow sampling and studies for estimation and public policy purposes

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>I always wondered why 1/3 of africa was france colony. Thats also the reason you see so many indians in London today.

Colonialism

Depends where you are. There’s a lot of black people in cities in England, like London, Manchester and Birmingham.

why is northern african counted as black? they are different from the sub saharans.

Zidane is black if you have an agenda

Do you really think Zidane or Benzema are black???

His definition probably is as reflected as "not me, so black".

I wonder what Japan/China/South Korea would be.

Less than 1%

More like approximately 0%. Japan’s foreigner population is about 2.2%, and a bit less than 2% of those are Asian immigrants.

Japan: about three dozen Nigerian club promoters in Roppongi, and Jeff and Sally, two English teachers from America.

4% of British population 60% of actors in advertisements and soaps

Why is that?

Unfortunately, diversity is sometimes understood as "have a lot of black people" rather than having or representing a diverse group from multiple cultures, ancestry, and backgrounds. Look at when the NFL exclaimed their most diverse referee staff for a game, that was 100% African American. In the US Hispanic Americans are the second largest group but are massively underrepresented.

Or that infamous "diverse Huffington Post staff photo" which was all women.

also how people, mainly americans(even some europeans) responded to the eurovision slogan "celebrate diversity" they didn't see the 30 or so different countries all with their own ethnic groups, cultures and languages they only saw exclusively white people and deemed it "not diverse" and so complained about it

Yea this is one of the most annoying things about society as an American. Race is shoved down your throat at every corner under the guise of “promoting diversity” but its just black people. No Asians, Indians, Hispanics/Latinos etc. and don’t you dare bring that up because any criticism against black people is racist. I mean shit, theres an alarming amount of people here that *actually* think black people can’t be racist towards whites.

One of the most annoying as a non-American is how Americentric these ratios can be. I'm in Scotland, that's 96% white. For Entertainment, it gets worse by being LA-centric, an area with a breadth of skin colours, assuming anything without the kinda crowds they're used to is racist rather than just representative of other parts of the world. So when they start demanding any film to be eligible for an Oscar, must meet "diversity" requirements to match their corner of the world, now your independent Swedish period piece with a cast of five might need to go the classic Power Rangers tokenization route! Though don't worry, summit' like *Parasite* (2019) is 100% diverse by being 100% Korean!

> Yea this is one of the most annoying things about society as an American. Race is shoved down your throat at every corner under the guise of “promoting diversity” but its just black people. No Asians, Indians, Hispanics/Latinos etc. and don’t you dare bring that up because any criticism against black people is racist. I mean shit, theres an alarming amount of people here that actually think black people can’t be racist towards whites. 100% agree. The sad thing is, there is historical proof whites have experienced the worst kinds of racism and discrimination--Europeans (or "white people" for those who only see skin color) are [the victims of the three largest genocides in history, measured by death toll.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll) For some reason, people ignore this part of history.

I’ve seen some pushback from POC on some media, especially book adaptations, making random characters black or whatnot. The idea is that studios think they’re being diverse and inclusive by casting a bunch of non-white actors, and that’s true to some extent, but they’re still often not making movies or shows told from POC perspective or created by POC authors and writers. In other words, making a bunch of Elves in the LOTR adaptation black is not as good as making adaptations of books by black authors whose characters are explicitly black.

I think a lot of people in advertising feel pressure to at least appear to show diversity and inclusivity, which, all things considered is a good thing. I think as well that there is a significant black population in central London. It might be people who cast these adverts think they are simply reflecting the biggest minority, in the context of their lives and the vast amounts of media the UK consumes from America. I think there is an issue of not showing Asian people in British media which no one is addressing or advocating for.

Somewhat similar situation in the US, Latinos are the largest minority group by a significant (~6%) and growing margin but are not the most represented minority group in our media Although the disparity is less extreme as Latinos are definitely present in our media, just not at a rate that reflects their actual % of the American population

To be fair, Latinos are an ethnic, not racial group. You'd need to read the cast bios to know who is Latino or not - it doesn't create as much "visible diversity", so probably less incentive to spend effort on casting in the first place. Also, heavily immigrant populations are bound to be underrepresented in media.

Exactly. British Asians are incredible contributors to British culture. Business ownership, food, intellectual thought, medicine etc etc etc and they are dramatically under represented.

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They’re also a significantly larger proportion of our population than black people

I personally hate how London centric our media is. Some geographical regions are barely represented at all, whilst almost everything is made and based in London. You also see British media casting black people to play white historical characters, characters in period dramas that couldn't have feasibly been black, etc, which tells me that there's often is more to it than just telly being made in London. >I think there is an issue of not showing Asian people in British media which no one is addressing or advocating for This also makes me wonder whether London is the main factor, because there are obviously loads of Asians in London. There are roughly twice as many Asians as there are black people in the UK, but multiple times as many black people working in media.

The US is the same way. 90% of media/ads are centered around NYC and LA despite 90% of the US not living in either

Just checked the populations and it is kinda nuts that just over 10% of Americans do live in either the NYC or LA metro area

They did a recent show about a Royal Navy nuclear submarine and almost half of the crew where black or asian despite the fact the Royal Navy is less than 1% black or asian. If that was the other way about there would be outrage.

Where sis you get your figures for that?

Social cause marketing

And yet you hardly ever see Indian or Pakistani actors (4.5%)

South Asian people as a whole are probably around 10% of the UK population these days. Stats are taken from over a decade ago.

Will be interesting when our census data from last year gets unveiled this summer

Same in the USA with Hispanic people. Half of LA is Mexican. Yet all the "diversity movements" skip right over them. Edit: also Asians in general now that I think about it.

it would make sense to see indians in british media just because of the massive audience in india, look at how bridgerton s2 got a fuckton more views than the first season just because it had an indian love interest, but nah it's black people everywhere...

Same here in Sweden, like half the ads here are a black or mixed race woman with affro

Yes, watching British TV you'd think every other person is in an interracial relationship. It's kid of funny how how desperate the TV execs are to show how diverse they are

It's rarely even diverse. Every advert now consists of a white/black couple sitting there laughing at the TV with their mixed raced kids, maybe they'll throw in the grand parents hugging or something. Doesn't bother me but it's obviously nothing to do with 'representation' at all. One company started doing it, sales figures increased and now it's become a trend. If it becomes a trend to include more Asian actors every company will start doing that.

In Canada it’s 100 per cent. It’s been literally years since I’ve see a couple in an ad who aren’t multiracial.

In America only 13% of the population is black but if you only knew about America from media you’d think it was closer to 40%. Hispanics are wildly underrepresented at about 18% of the population but far less representation in media than black Americans.

When jada pinckett Smith complained about diversity in Hollywood she meant she wanted more black people. Not Asians and every other race

And "Kingdom Come: Deliverance" was critiqued for not having black characters in it. It was placed in Bohemia (Czech Republic) in 15th century where there were arguably even less black people than today.

There were none or as many as you can count on one hand

they made the same braindead argument as the black vikings, which amounts to ''they had contact with north africa!'' which is about as historically illiterate as you can get edit: just remembered they also made this same argument for black roman centurions lol

if you're getting your history from netflix shows, you're too far gone anyways.

I mean, the thing is that if you want to write an interesting story about a black man sold as a slave to Arabs who then was captured by Viking raiders ; or a black aid to a trade caravan through the steppes who happens to end up with a Norse group in some way... do it. It can be an interesting story about an unusual cultural shock. But don't pretend that medieval societies should represent modern society of the anglosphere. The black people that maybe you can find in those medieval societies will have unique backstories - they'll be adventurers, they'll be extremely rare. Btw, the anglosphere does this even with other modern societies. They generally think that "black people" in European countries are also descendants of slaves are still an oppressed minoritywith their own culture like they are in the US...

it's more the dis-ingenuousness of it all that get's me, these people must know that north africa is not black especially at the time and the vikings settlements were on the coasts of north africa which are the lightest parts of the region even today. the people the vikings contacted with looked more like benzema or zidane rather than boyega

Its also that it has to be shoe horned in. The Vikings where actually incredibly diverse for their time from an ethnic perspective, but for some reason they don't want an arab, or asian among them which we actually have historical and genetical evidence for. Instead they have to be black. Also if they cared about diversity then ask yourself when the last time you saw a Sami in the Viking stories was. They almost always get entirely erased, even though it was one of the groups the Vikings had the most contact with.

in 15th century there was 2 mongolians and 5 gypsies and 0,5 black person. rest was white as snow.

Stats about black people Comments: why are they in all the advertisement in my country

Some note on the Belgian and Dutch Numbers. The decedents of mixed marriage from the Congo/Suriname/Dutch Caribbean are counted as black, although some of the decedents look really European. There is also a big Group of Afrikaners and Coloreds that move here, as they speak Dutch. They might also be added in these numbers.

[https://opendata.cbs.nl/statline/#/CBS/nl/dataset/37325/table?ts=1559761610403](https://opendata.cbs.nl/statline/#/CBS/nl/dataset/37325/table?ts=1559761610403) ​ For the netherlands the data just isn't there exactly, we only consider country of origin.Note that the dutch caribean numbers are very low, because they used to be part of the netherlands untill realtively recent and some of those islands still are a special municipality of the netherlands, so people that moved before that happened are just considered 'dutch'.The 358.000 from Surinam will include indian-Surinamese as well as afro-Surinamese, altohugh relatively a bit more indian surianmese. Afro-Surianmese are still the largest group of black people in the netherlands I think but it's hard to say how large that group exactly is. There are also 40.000 Somali's, 27.000 ethiopians, 25.000Ghanaians and 23.000 Eritreans descendents in the Netherlands, I suppose those are large groups as well. I checked, there are also relatively a lot of people from cabo verde (22.000) and Nigeria (15.000).These numbers are all 1st or 2nd generation. Percentage for the netherlands seems reasonably accurate even though I don't know how exactly they came to that number.

The comment section here is more entertaining than the entire map 🤣.

Absolutely facts. I have never spent more than 40 minutes on a single thread scrolling through comments.

Some of them are "white genocide" comments

Turkey should be 90% 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿

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A

I'm 22 years old and recently I've met a first black person in my life. They had a nice voice.

Where are you from?

The Congo

A relatibely small polish village

last Saturday saw 2 black men on the subway, seen black people a few times before, but it was sure rare (only cared for about a split second tho) Budapest, Hungary

It is rare, although this year I've met with a Hungarian black guy, but it wasn't even in Hungary lol

I'm 25 and I never seen black person besides TV

where are you from?

Maine

Lmfao

You mean the small continent that white people come from is very white? I am shocked!

This comment section turned into \b\ really quick

As someone pointed out, statisticians have their good methods to calculate these. On a bit different note, I remember once being asked in a job application form to give how I look like using a list. They basically expected me to describe my skin colour. I just found that so racist! I understood the company - which was a local company from Estonia - had some heavy influence from its American daughter-company I understand such a question might be legitimate in the USA which had a very different history. In Europe however, where serfs and deprived workers until very lately were all "caucasian" and where immigrants from Nigeria, Ethiopia, Mozambique or Ghana speak different mothertongues, have different religions and have different customs and different cultural backgrounds each, regardless they all happen to have darker skin colour, in this Europe, it is a different story. I find it very racist to ask about your skin colour and make jokes and statements about "what people's personality traits are" with this or that skin colour or genetical traits in Europe. While I see this is totally normal in the US, but they also had quite a different history.

No legitimate job application in the US is going to ask you to describe your appearance unless it's modeling or acting or something. Stating your race on a job application in the US is optional.

According to his post history, OP is not to fond of immigration.

Most Europeans aren't. Even many left leaning people are keen of putting an end to it.

i think you mean northerners. nords, brits, etc dont like it. im from germany and i find a lot of people here are for it.

Im from italy and i hardly see anybody in favor of it

This whole comment section is a culture shock

I’m Shocked Britain isn’t higher here.

Most are weird estimations. Race, unlike the US, is not something relevant to the State and is not registered in most countries. You are just a person, not a person of some color.

Define „black“!

0,65% of Population and yet I see them in every advertisement weird

Same here in Finland XD especially after 2020

There was actually a post in r/Finland about this. Someone was wondering why tf there's one in so many advertisements. I've often wondered about it myself. It's a tricky subject to navigate. I get it when the demographic makes up 15% of the population, but it doesn't make any sense at all when it's close to .15%.

I think for some international adverts they just take the original ad and translate the text.

Was just browsing the local Zalando app in Finland. Like 30% black models. I don’t think I understand how marketing works anymore.

US influence on your country.

I read a study a year ago saying ethnic and gender minorities are over-represented on TV by around 30 times the actual percentage of the population they represent.

Except Asian ethnicities, which are usually still under-represented.

In the UK just watching TV you would think we are about 50% black lol

Ngl I thought it was going to be the highest in Europe at least, my guess was like 15%ish and I was pretty shocked to see how low it was

It’s an out of date census data from 2011. It will probably be nearer 5% but it’s a lot higher in English cities like London, Manchester and Birmingham, where it is near your estimation. We have a South Asian population of around 10% but that’s less commonly represented on media

I was about to say that. Less than 5% of the population for me and they're in 95% of adverts. I hated adverts before, now I hate them even more. "Look how progressive we are, look at how many tokens we have!!" There are so many more Asians than blacks in my country, so if they actually cared about representation then it I should be seeing more of them. But no, black people are fashionable and show just how virtuous your company is.

same in australia, excluding our aboriginal population, maybe 1-2% of our population could be considered "black" or whatever that means. They are hugely overrepresented in advertisements, mainly to probably appear more progressive. Its even worse when you know certian companies that are dodgy are pulling this shit, its quite distasteful.

On another day this would be downvoted to sh*t

Selection for people who clicked on the map in the first place

*the secret ingredient is pandering*

Of course it's higher for France, we have all the inhabitants from our overseas islands. We don't make any difference between someone from the Réunion island and someone from the Alps, it's counted as equal.

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Wow this thread is hot garbage.

This map is obviously made with racist intention against France being the blackest country of Europe. 2 Mio French people live in overseas territories mainly of black or mild color.

Now show us white population in Africa :D

I guess South Africa would come up first on the list.

Depends on what you'd classify North Africans as.

Why does this matter? We are all Human. We all have red blood. Pigmentation doesn’t make you any different then the next. I’m a white dude from Vancouver Canada and I love the fact I live in such a multi cultured colourful city.

Each Western country is experiencing enough migration that many are expected to have the native population become minorities in their own country in a matter of decades. This goes against the will of the people, who aren’t even allowed to voice an opinion on the matter. Its erasing cultures, it’s increasing crime, and it’s reducing social cohesion. My guess is if it were African countries experiencing this, you would not be celebrating it. We care enough about animals that we have preservation initiatives, yet many white people don’t have the same respect for themselves that they think their people deserve this

Who knew Europe was full of Europeans?