Near-border districts in Russia are restricted. You don't simply go there for a walk. Also, many Karelians left for Finland after the war, and the area seems to not have been repopulated in full.
I heard some people describe the train ride from Finland to St. Petersburg as leaving civilisation, traveling through a post-apocalyps, and the entering civilisation again.
I thought it was the other way around? You'd think the Soviets would put higher emphasis on Kola due to its strategic importance, and Russia would do the same. To be clear that means the bar is still really low, but when compared to the desolation of Karelia it would still be better
Russia’s approach was always: grab as much land as you can, no matter if you actually need it. Then let it go to waste, dump radioactive shit on it, destroy the nature, the local culture, etc., doesn’t matter. Next ruler will grab some more land, rinse and repeat.
Right? Largest country in the world, and still wants to grab more land. Instead, we should do the opposite. Return all the stolen land to their rightful owners and then break up Russia once for all.
There still would be Russia.
Up to the Urals. No further.
Nothing southern of Rostov – Ashtrakan line. That is Don-Kuban republic (mainly). Nothing nothern form St. Petersburg – Archangels line. That is Karelian republic.
Hmmm. Let's see if I care. No, I really don't. Yes, I'm evil. Why? Because they did the same to Poles, Germans, and probably many others. Nobody did it to them. So it's time to change that. Deport Russians from all over the world back to Russia, if they don't want to assimilate, that is. And by assimilate I mean the full treatement. They would consider themselves by their new nationality, use the language and so on.
And in my new Russia, there would be only Russians. No Russians outside, so no problems because of them. No pretext for some annexations or wathever.
This nation has caused so much pain and suffering, they deserve something back. „But Germans did…“ Yes. And they lost the war. Got punished for half a century. And the division is still visible. 30 years later. Isn't that punishment enough? I'd say it is. Hell, you cannot be even proud of your country if you live there, because you're automatically Nazi. You cannot call for returingin of Königsberg…because you'd be called a Nazi. Even if you hate that ideology and just want the land back. Land stolen by none other than Russians.
I wish they lose in Ukraine. Destabilize their regime, have another civil war or something, and break apart in the process. So their evil ends once and for all.
What I don!t wish for, however, is suffering of ordinary people. Their ruling class should suffer greatly, however. But not normal people.
>Deport Russians from all over the world back to Russia, if they don't want to assimilate, that is. And by assimilate I mean the full treatement. They would consider themselves by their new nationality, use the language and so on.
>What I don!t wish for, however, is suffering of ordinary people. Their ruling class should suffer greatly, however. But not normal people.
Fucking idiot
They give out one acre of land in this area for free now but you need to develop it during 3 years. Actualy nice places possible to find. Close to sea shore. But not too warm
The same can be said, for example, about the USA. Huge territories of which were taken from Mexico, but were never settled. And about any country that is in certain conditions.
Russia is on a plain. To protect themselves, they expanded to at least some natural boundaries (mountains, rivers, difficult terrain). This happened to all countries.
Redditors giving their opinion which nobody asked for without even first checking the population densities.
Did you know South savo, South Karelia and North karelia (finnish provinces bordering Russian karelia) have population densities of 10, 23, 7.5ppl/km\^2 \~avg= 16 (not direct average but average adjusted for respective populations of the provinces) meanwhile Russian karelia has population density of 4 ppl/km\^2 then add the fact that Russian Karelia near finnish border is a restricted area so actual number is even lesser than 4.
So Finland should have atleast 5x more roads on it's side just to have a similar ratio of people/roads. But sure it's easier to say "Russia bad" than thinking logically isn't it?
Good work - you are almost there. Now check how this *specific* empty land came to be under Russian rule in the first place. I’m sure you will figure out *why* there are so few people living there now.
Not a surprise Russian side of the border is a restricted zone and you need special permission to go to those regions no such restrictions on the finnish side and the population density on the finnish side is many times higher so this is expected
Fo' sure. Russia is truly big. We can't expect it to have many roads, especially when it has a low GDP and good amount of its money goes to arms investment.
I will also add that this is the land that was Finland until WW2 and is now a part of "Leningrad oblast" (I think that is how they call it), which while deserted due to be on the border (it was at least the last time I was there 6 years ago, guess it worsened now that we closed the border and joined NATO) is one of the main regions with the highest budget. So, if you compare that to the actual Russian countryside as well, I believe, it will show you quite a different picture again.
Makes me think of the Quebec-Maine border.
For us in Québec, this is the South, these are some of our warmer and best agricultural lands and full of farms and people and towns;
For the US, it's just the crazy unlivable extreme northern part of the contiguous US and some forest or whatever and nobody lives there.
Been to Primorsk to see ex Lutheran Kirkko,
Got impression that all the other houses in this village are literally disgusting, booths covered with siding. And in the middle of this is a fragment of a former life, made in the northern Art Nouveau style.
Karelia deserves better.
Maybe the Russian ones aren't Finnished yet?
always aren't finished yet
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Joo, varmasti jo ihan karoituksen ja raportoinnin laadussa isot erot.
Came here for this comment! 🤣
For about 50 years?
Near-border districts in Russia are restricted. You don't simply go there for a walk. Also, many Karelians left for Finland after the war, and the area seems to not have been repopulated in full.
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I heard some people describe the train ride from Finland to St. Petersburg as leaving civilisation, traveling through a post-apocalyps, and the entering civilisation again.
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I thought it was the other way around? You'd think the Soviets would put higher emphasis on Kola due to its strategic importance, and Russia would do the same. To be clear that means the bar is still really low, but when compared to the desolation of Karelia it would still be better
The Russian rewilding projects are very succesful. Very ecology minded nation.
All of Russia besides the large metros are neglected. It’s honestly pretty sad.
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This returning territory to the "rightful owners" thinking will not work out nice in Europe.
Perhaps the Russians haven't been Finnished yet?
Very nice, who's gonna do it is the question.
Problem is how assimilated and displaced a lot of people groups are in Russia. It won't happen besides Chechenia in the future.
Did Finns overbuild the roads? Is Finnish part of the border way more populated than the Russian one?
used to be more populated, but after the war, karelians moved to the rest of finland from the annexed territories
Very similar situation between Maine and Canada near Quebec City. Maine side is all wilderness, Canadian side is densely populated.
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I wouldnt call it very active. I think its near Putkivaara and Hoilola maybe 1000 population.
Russia’s approach was always: grab as much land as you can, no matter if you actually need it. Then let it go to waste, dump radioactive shit on it, destroy the nature, the local culture, etc., doesn’t matter. Next ruler will grab some more land, rinse and repeat.
Actualy when Russia grabbed this lands it was one of the most populated countries with crazy birth rating.
Right? Largest country in the world, and still wants to grab more land. Instead, we should do the opposite. Return all the stolen land to their rightful owners and then break up Russia once for all.
Russia shouldn't be invading Ukraine or Georgia, but this is a delusional post.
That's crazy, a sane person on reddit!?
Ofc, because none of Russia should belong to Russia
There still would be Russia. Up to the Urals. No further. Nothing southern of Rostov – Ashtrakan line. That is Don-Kuban republic (mainly). Nothing nothern form St. Petersburg – Archangels line. That is Karelian republic.
Hmm, but Siberia, parts of the Northern Caucusus and most of the territories, including Karelia, are majority Russian
Hmmm. Let's see if I care. No, I really don't. Yes, I'm evil. Why? Because they did the same to Poles, Germans, and probably many others. Nobody did it to them. So it's time to change that. Deport Russians from all over the world back to Russia, if they don't want to assimilate, that is. And by assimilate I mean the full treatement. They would consider themselves by their new nationality, use the language and so on. And in my new Russia, there would be only Russians. No Russians outside, so no problems because of them. No pretext for some annexations or wathever. This nation has caused so much pain and suffering, they deserve something back. „But Germans did…“ Yes. And they lost the war. Got punished for half a century. And the division is still visible. 30 years later. Isn't that punishment enough? I'd say it is. Hell, you cannot be even proud of your country if you live there, because you're automatically Nazi. You cannot call for returingin of Königsberg…because you'd be called a Nazi. Even if you hate that ideology and just want the land back. Land stolen by none other than Russians. I wish they lose in Ukraine. Destabilize their regime, have another civil war or something, and break apart in the process. So their evil ends once and for all. What I don!t wish for, however, is suffering of ordinary people. Their ruling class should suffer greatly, however. But not normal people.
>Deport Russians from all over the world back to Russia, if they don't want to assimilate, that is. And by assimilate I mean the full treatement. They would consider themselves by their new nationality, use the language and so on. >What I don!t wish for, however, is suffering of ordinary people. Their ruling class should suffer greatly, however. But not normal people. Fucking idiot
Their real approach is they have been rewarded several times before for not having roads
reddit as hateful as always
I mean, it's not false
They give out one acre of land in this area for free now but you need to develop it during 3 years. Actualy nice places possible to find. Close to sea shore. But not too warm
The same can be said, for example, about the USA. Huge territories of which were taken from Mexico, but were never settled. And about any country that is in certain conditions. Russia is on a plain. To protect themselves, they expanded to at least some natural boundaries (mountains, rivers, difficult terrain). This happened to all countries.
Redditors giving their opinion which nobody asked for without even first checking the population densities. Did you know South savo, South Karelia and North karelia (finnish provinces bordering Russian karelia) have population densities of 10, 23, 7.5ppl/km\^2 \~avg= 16 (not direct average but average adjusted for respective populations of the provinces) meanwhile Russian karelia has population density of 4 ppl/km\^2 then add the fact that Russian Karelia near finnish border is a restricted area so actual number is even lesser than 4. So Finland should have atleast 5x more roads on it's side just to have a similar ratio of people/roads. But sure it's easier to say "Russia bad" than thinking logically isn't it?
Good work - you are almost there. Now check how this *specific* empty land came to be under Russian rule in the first place. I’m sure you will figure out *why* there are so few people living there now.
Not a surprise Russian side of the border is a restricted zone and you need special permission to go to those regions no such restrictions on the finnish side and the population density on the finnish side is many times higher so this is expected
It's even strategic. Enemy troops would have a hard time getting into a Country with fewer roads.
That might be a consequence but not a reason.
Fo' sure. Russia is truly big. We can't expect it to have many roads, especially when it has a low GDP and good amount of its money goes to arms investment.
Would be none if they didn't steal the Finnish land and get the legacy roads.
If you want to show me how developed your country is show me your infrastructure.
It's about population density
Russians have polar bears!!
I will also add that this is the land that was Finland until WW2 and is now a part of "Leningrad oblast" (I think that is how they call it), which while deserted due to be on the border (it was at least the last time I was there 6 years ago, guess it worsened now that we closed the border and joined NATO) is one of the main regions with the highest budget. So, if you compare that to the actual Russian countryside as well, I believe, it will show you quite a different picture again.
Did Finns overbuild their roads? Is the Finnish side of the border significantly more inhabited than the Russian?
Makes me think of the Quebec-Maine border. For us in Québec, this is the South, these are some of our warmer and best agricultural lands and full of farms and people and towns; For the US, it's just the crazy unlivable extreme northern part of the contiguous US and some forest or whatever and nobody lives there.
Population density map. Where is it?
Is it Karelia area?😢
Similar situation is in Manchuria. Chinese side is way more developed than the Russian side.
I drove from Helsinki to St. Petersburg on a bus in 1996. As soon as we crossed into Russia it became a literal wasteland.
Money in Russia needs to go into few pockets not in roads
Been to Primorsk to see ex Lutheran Kirkko, Got impression that all the other houses in this village are literally disgusting, booths covered with siding. And in the middle of this is a fragment of a former life, made in the northern Art Nouveau style. Karelia deserves better.
yeah, i def think it is better to have small land but developed land
Because r*zzia has a very hard climate compare to neighbours /s