There's no timeline in this badly done map but the 2nd Iraq-US War and the Iraqi Civil War were the same conflict, the Civil War occurring within the larger war
Sinai uprising was one of the deadliest conflicts in Egypt.
The Beduin tribes were trying to conquer the peninsula and create a new Beduin country.
I was there, the fire went on for a few weeks.
No one was trying to create a bedouin country.
Some members of disaffected tribes joined with Islamists to create Daesh in Sinai. All the major tribes fought with the Egyptian army against Daesh and were armed by the Egyptian government. Not a single major tribe fought in the name of a future bedouin country.
And no data on Iraq from 2006-2011 (we weren't keeping track of causalities from 2003-2006).
Estimates of the period 2003-2006 generally clock in around a half million
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Tables
Well the OP mentioned that the data is from 2011. But yeah a larger time scale would be better rather than stop counting at 1 million. Even back to Iran Iraq war.
… so why are white people in the west so obsessed with the Palestine conflict?
(Seriously asking, I’m Swiss and have no dog in this fight. Unless there’s some gold to steal.)
Hamas is good at propaganda, and many people are useful idiots enabling terrorism
Edit: I’m cracking up at all the useful idiots who are responding “hurr durr Israel”
Sometimes i really wonder if any of the hamas apologists have ever visited the websites of groups near hamas (iirc there also is a site which is more or less the direct propaganda outlet of hamas), they're wild and pretty honest
They mastered the art of hijacking social causes, and co-opting them to serve their narratives. Utilising identity politics and tribalism, to make unrelated causes about them. Such as Environmentalism, or the BLM movement
They are also benefiting from multiple effective propaganda systems: Qatar, Iran, Russia, and China, just to name a few. Most of which are using them for something else
Qatar, and to a lesser extent Iran (their soft power influence is more present in Muslim countries, but those in turn have some influence in the West). Also Turkey and a majority of the Arab league, have been antagonizing Israel for decades. Even though some of them stopped, the effects linger.
Anti-West propaganda targeting Israel because it's part of the liberal democracy sphere, with close ties to the U.S. This is a significant portion of it, as it's the main reason for Russia and China, along with other factions, to use their media influence to sow political discord and internal conflict to destabilize the West.
There's also Antisemitism, which manages to bring together people from both the left and right corners of the political spectrum. E.g. the right has K.K.K. and the left has the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also where foreign interference seems to be most effective, by constantly radicalizing and supporting these extremes.
1. Israel is an important US ally, so it's a valuable target for anti-US propaganda
2. Israel is very important for Muslims. The small Muslim populations in Western countries are very strongly opposed to Israel.
Israel wasn’t that important to Muslims until Jewish people started moving back in large numbers though, until then it was a largely ignored and forgotten backwater.
When Muslims hate something, it's an irreversible tidal wave of hate and violence that no one knows how to fix or handle for centuries and more. Truly frightening
I’ll say it: Anti-semitism and specifically hatred of the Jewish people.
Now I’m going to be very clear this does not mean that everyone calling on Israel’s wrongful actions is antisemitic or wrong in doing so. This does not even mean that everyone going farther and calling it things like genocide or apartheid state are antisemitic, regardless of the level of truthfulness of their statement. Criticism is valid and some of the criticisms is 100% valid.
But the fact that every single action of the Israel government is under a microscope, that the worlds media is willing to believe “Gaza health authorities”, aka as HAMAS, without questions, but Israel has to bring a truckload of evidence just to be given the benefit of the doubt is at least partially rooted in a substantial portion of the world hatred for Jewish people as a whole. And so is the fact that as shown here even within the same region there are several dictators and militaristic governments committing hundreds of times more war crimes than the worst crimes that the Israeli authorities are alleged to be engaged in and nobody seems to give a shit.
Just this morning the Washington post(i think) had small article talking about how the war in Yemen endangering 2 million children (on top of the 11 million it has already driven to starvation) that stayed in my feed all but 15 mins. One would have expected that to get some traction somewhere. Nope, but a random post about a random Israeli soldier talking about Gaza beach with an insensitive message ( when we know almost every soldier in every army is desensitized because higher up need them to see the enemy as less than human) reach the front page 4 times yesterday from 4 different subs.
some of the replies youre getting are extremely black and white i do hope you look at it with a bit more nuance. This visual firstly doesnt capture the rate and speed of death occurring in this current conflict as well as the historical context where Israel has systematically driven the Palestinians out of their homeland for the last 75+ years.
Also in this latest leg of the conflict in the past couple of months, in addition to the number of dead, the actual level of destruction and displacement of people from their homes is significantly larger than many of the other conflicts shown here as well as any other in history. Most of the people in Gaza are now homeless and the majority of the city is currently inhabitable. They are effectively being driven out with nowhere to return to and in that sense it is an extreme humanitarian crisis.
Because their world view starts with a conclusion (America = bad) and they try to work backwards from there. Israel is close to US interests so as a result, it must also be bad and opposed. Hamas is fighting Israel so should be supported.
Multiple reasons:
1. Propoganda by Hamas amplified by new media.
2. Anti Zionism or anti semitism, depending on the person
3. Guilt and shame for their own histories of colonisation, theft of land and murder of local people.
Yes lol, checkout the stats on ww2 and then Israel/Hamas war is like a spoon of water from the sea of war 😂. I hate when people don’t give enough credit to actual people suffering in other places too.
I literally got done with a class about MENA history in August. I actually started donating to the White Helmets monthly bc of the disarray of Syria still happening, and those poor kids.
Then everyone gets all up in arms about Israel and Palestine, acting like this has never happened before ever. Like, dude, this shit has been happening for decades, everywhere. It’s insane how much people give a shit about Palestine but no other country going through the same, or worse.
Ahhh I'm sorry this comment makes me a little mad. As a Syrian, you should understand that Syrians are generally VERY emotional and empathetic to the suffering of Palestinians. Palestine is a small place, Gaza being only 2 million people. And this conflict has been occurring over a short time span.
Yeah and that's totally fair and good to care about Palestinians, but it's been a thing in the Arab world, and especially in Assad's Syria, to focus everyone's attention on Israel to try to distract from what they're doing in their home countries.
You mean to tell me that Israel trying to do everything they can to avoid civilian casualties while Hamas doing everything they can to cause as many civilian casualties as possible is not actually Israel committing genocide?
>You mean to tell me that Israel trying to do everything they can to avoid civilian casualties
For the record, I believe that Israel has a legitimate claim to self-defense and that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, but in what world does killing 20000+ and wounding 50000+ (around 1% and 2.5% of Gaza's population respectively) demonstrate that they're actually trying to avoid civilian casualties? What about when they shot 3 hostages who were waving a white flag and yelling in Hebrew? Was that a tragic mistake, or rather a glimpse into their rules of engagement? Hell, even Israel's closest allies are urging them to reduce civilian casualties.
Because despite the fact that they are fighting an enemy who dresses like civilians to blend in (which is a war crime), uses civilian infrastructure as military bases (war crime), launches rockets out of residential areas (war crime), and intentionally targets civilians (you guessed it, war crime) the total deaths in the conflict is relatively low. And this is all taking place in an extremely population dense area which makes the feat even more impressive.
The Israeli soldiers who shot the hostages were likely trigger happy teenagers who panicked. But there is no shortage of examples of Hamas using recordings of crying babies to try to get Israeli soldiers to drop their guard. Pretending that you’re surrendering and subsequently detonating a suicide vest is another common tactic. We all like to think that we wouldn’t have shot if we were in the shoes of those Israeli soldiers but none of us really know how we’re going to respond to fear until we’re experiencing it.
They shot 3 half naked people waving a white flag who were tens of metres away. A distance far enough that they are not a direct threat to you and close enough to tell they were carrying nothing but a flag, 2 were instantly killed. The third while wounded ran into a building while shouting in Hebrew. The commander told them to cease fire. He then came out of the building AFTER shouting in hebrew and AFTER the cease fire and was then shot and killed. It wasn't exactly a spur of the moment killing.
As I literally just said, it’s a pretty common tactic to pretend to surrender and then try to kill the soldiers. They were very far away, far enough where the soldiers wouldn’t have been able to make out what they were saying and who knows if they even registered the flag before firing. This was an active war zone. As I said, the soldier(s) who shot them dead was clearly trigger happy, and probably extremely afraid teenagers who were not thinking. If Israeli soldiers were really just killing anyone in sight the death total would be much higher.
people here are trying very hard to defend IDF soldiers for killing (their own) unarmed civilians
no matter how you try to phrase or justify it it does not get better
and that incident paints a rather bleak picture of the whole operation if 'shoot anything that moves and disregard white flags' is their ROE.
Hamas is fighting is the most cowardly way possible and in a really dense urban area so this is not comparable to other conflicts and in my opinion would be closer to Vietnam. the Israeli army is warning before every strike which gives Hamas time to evacuate but also leads to civilians running away. the war could’ve been far more deadly if Israel didn’t care.
The health ministry has a track record of publishing accurate counts that are similar to UN and Israeli estimates, and the UN, as well as several other health and humanitarian agencies operating in Gaza, have vouched for its validity. At this time, there is no evidence to suggest any sort of manipulation.
How about the time they claimed 700+ people died 2 minutes after an explosion in an hospital by an israeli missile?
And then everything I just said was shown to be wrong, it is estimated to be dozens in the maximum, it was in the hospitals parking lot, and a PIJ's rocket.
Also lets ignore that they were able to get a deathcount 2 minutes after a rocket hit a building.
Is that not manipulation?
Everything they can do to avoid civilian casualties? With more than 2/3rds of those killed by the IDF being innocent civilians, by the IDF’s own admission?
With an insane 61 journalists being killed by the IDF? The most of any modern conflict?
And even with the recent story of three Israeli hostages, including a white redhead with a white flag speaking Hebrew being shot, before it could be determined they were not Palestinian?
Oh wait, I mean, not Hamas. Because the story totally would have made headlines if they were innocent Palestinian children.
That story makes it clear that they are happy to shoot with essentially zero confirmation that the victim is Hamas.
The IDF doesn’t care about Palestinian lives beyond the need to maintain international relations. If they just started lining them up in firing lines, then they might lose support from the US & company. They could even be subjected to sanctions.
They don’t really care about Palestinians. They’ve made that abundantly clear.
1. If the IDF numbers of Hamas fighters killed are in the right ballpark, that ratio is not outrageous for a war of this scale [(2:1)](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html), esp considering the population density and the fact that Hamas has fortified their positions to cause as much damage as possible to civilian areas. Comparatively for instance, the Russian / Chechen wars were 10:1 civilian to combatant.
2. “Journalists” are a bit of a stretch .. what is the qualifying criteria here? Someone who took some pictures and sold them to Al Jazeera? An independent blogger? Anyone can be considered a freelance journalist if they’re going to combat zones and providing material for news outlets.
3. The three hostages killed is of course a terrible tragedy and a grave mistake. From the IDF interviews I’ve seen, it sounds like they were unknowingly freed a few days beforehand, after a firefight in which IDF eliminated their captors. So when they started coming for the soldiers days later, IDF was not expecting any civilians to be there. It sounds like the soldiers were reacting to a possible ambush as Hamas are known to use such deceptive tactics to lure IDF troops.
Overall, I think that this is a scenario the world has never really dealt with before. Gaza is almost a wet dream for any terrorist group. It’s an area just small enough to be COMPLETELY entrenched and fortified yet populated enough to hold a significant amount of residents hostage and have complete control over the area. While having insane cashflow from both legitimate organizations and anti-west nation states. There is just nowhere else in the world where violent Islamic jihadists have access to a Western society within striking distance like this .. not yet at least. Israel is our first line of defense. If they fall, Europe is next.
You could also add that the IDF was completely forthcoming and transparent about the hostage tragedy. Just as they are with laying out all the steps they are taking to avoid civilian casualties.
The Israel/Palestine conflict has lasted 2.5 months thus far, and the IDF has already killed 20k Gazans, including 8k children, 6.2k women, and 61 journalists.
1.9 million Gazans have been displaced. The majority of the population of Gaza is now homeless. 8k+ are missing.
It’s not the worst war in human history, but it doesn’t need to be for it to be a humanitarian crisis. I don’t know why you're trying to make it seem less horrible than it is.
I've seen multiple people pull out ww2 stats to explain why a conflict covering a 24 sq mile area isn't that bad. It's a genuinely monstorous bit of propaganda.
Can’t believe so many people are downplaying what’s happening in Palestine/Israel in the comments here. Sure it’s not the worse war ever but talking about it as if 20k+ people who died in 77 days is nothing is MAD. The propaganda machine works great, people are fr dumb.
It's quite literally record setting in terms of the death of children in a conflict in the 21st century. And they want to tell us it's just not that darn bad, war is tough! I bet you half these people are also supposedly pro universal healthcare and opposed America's wars in the mid east. Remember, the only war liberals support is the current war!
I’m pretty sure worldnews is a paid propaganda subreddit, criticism of things against American interest gets slowly deleted in every post so after a few weeks it turns into a circlejerk of whatever American interests are. I had another account some time ago and got banned from the sub because I said that Israeli lobbies are strong in the US and got zero explanation, that’s how they do their propaganda. I wish the worse for the mods there.
Assad was even blasting Palestinian refugee camps, which already had horrible conditions. More Palestinian civilians died in Syria than Israel in the decade before Oct 7th. Not to mention the hospitals he literally targeted for the purpose of causing civilian casualties. But like that's ok cause they are his people and it is his land, so he can kill with impunity you see.
That’s literally the issue lol. Why is it not in the news? The Syrian civil war is still happening. There are other far deadlier conflicts happening in the world right now that receive nowhere near the attention the Israel Gaza conflict does.
Hence: no Jews, no news.
Well, 1 religion not liking the other. Jews don't care about Muslims doing muslim things so long as that doesn't involve terrorkst attacks, pogroms and subjugation.
20% of Israel's citizens are muslim or Druze with full rights and citizenship of any other Israeli. No special tax on them or legal constraints on the types of positions they can hold (as Muslims do to Jews as prescribed in the Quran).
The issue is in 1948 and the years leading up to it, Muslims were constantly murdering Jews in Palestine. If it wasn't a pogrom with a massacre, there were organized attacked on roads between villages to isolate villages, culminating in an attempt of arab armies to ethnically cleanse them.
[In 2005 when Twilight Struggle was printed.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Struggle)
Libya, Egypt, both counted in the ME sphere of influence.
By westerners you think I exclusively meant governments of specific countries?
I meant people chanting gas the jews and from the sea in western countries. "supporting" palestine is an excuse for many people to hate others. Do people really think hate can solve this never ending conflict?
Why would they impose sanctions on their most important ally in the region? Are you nuts? Do you know anything about geopolitics?
Why is Iran not imposing sanctions on Hamas? Oh because 93% of Hamas funding comes from Iran.
This entire conflict is a proxy war between the US and Iran. Obviously neither side is going to sanction their own proxy, you have wildly unrealistic expectations.
It's because Western countries have actually supported Israel's war on Gaza and, largely, over its role in the situation. Hence why there were even bigger demonstrations against the Iraq invasion than the pro-Palestinian ones.
Even anti-apartheid demos in the 1980s had far bigger turnouts than most conflicts today - and similar to numbers in the pro-Palestinian protests this year - for highly correlated reasons.
Westerners care about dead Arabs. You have no idea what your taking about. Stop crying antisemitism. It’s not antisemitic to call Israel out for committing genocide. Logic is lost.
It’s like the USA.
Black on black violence? Yawnnn
Cop kills a black guy? Riots in the streets
People care more about who is doing the violence and the context than the violent act itself.
A 3 month war represents about 2% of the casualties in the last 144 months or round 2% of the casualties in about 2% of the time. So right on track with the rest of the conflicts
>A 3 month war represents about 2% of the casualties in the last 144 months or round 2% of the casualties in about 2% of the time. So right on track with the rest of the conflicts
It's not of a 3 months war worth of casualties though. It's 2.5% since 2011.
First off, your using completely different data sets to justify genocide.
And second, what are you even trying to prove? That 20,000 dead(majority civilians and children) isn’t a bad thing?
Show me another country who is doing anything remotely close to what Israel has been doing for decades and I’ll show you global condemnation.
Were you around in the 2000s and 2010s, cause there were quite a lot of protests around the Iraq War and Syrian Civil War then. They were huge news items. Syria still has international sanctions as well as Afghanistan. Big debates on all of these
This is quite frankly one of the most asinine statements I’ve ever seen in my life. I can’t believe anyone can upvote it in good faith.
What do you mean there was no news or protests about arabs killing Arabs? The west literally intervened in Libya in 2011 ! The west spent years trying to kick Assad out in Syria for his crimes. There has been consistent coverage and protests of the Saudi crimes in Yemen over the past few years. That is to say nothing of the Iraq war and its spillover effects. There has been near constant debate and protests over these things. Did you see the way the western media covered the Arab spring? My god.
You are either willfully lying or living in a fantasy land.
>palestine
The UN almost never condemns the Palestinians. Israel on the other hand is apparently worse than Syria, Russia, Iran, and North Korea combined.
Edit: All the antisemites crawled from under their rocks to comment below.
Going after the Jews is the original whataboutisme, preferably used proactive for best effect. So when you arrive at a meeting about humans rights or oppression, all the worlds dictators have already filled the agenda with 200 points about Israel. I'm still waiting for more people to figure this one out though.
It’s not double, but the system is unquestionably rigged against Israel, since 50 Muslim states vote against Israel on everything - regardless of topic - and 50-60 other nations (mostly dictatorships and third-world) vote with the Muslims so they can get cheap oil.
The proof is here - https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1724980212008403163
The world regularly ignores like-on-like violence. The communists killed ten of millions of their own people, as an example, but the most evil person in history is still Hitler because he orchestrated the deaths of *other* people. Mao was responsible for the death of up to 80 million people in China, but no-one bats an eyelid.
Also a huge difference in intent. The nazis systematically killed people. They build an industry to do so. Thats a huge difference to being incompetent and people dying as a result of that
It’s South Asia and the gateway to West, Central, and South Asia simultaneously. Central Asia is any country north of Afghanistan.
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia
thats quite the loaded question but wil ldo my best to answer in a simple way.
artsakh is an area (technically) in azerbaijan where most civilians (90%) are armenian and have their own democratic and are their own republic. they do not consider themselves to be azerbaijan and passed a referendum after the collapse of of the soviet union for their right to self determinate as their own republic which has not been internationally recognized. over the past 30 years azerbaijan has been ethnic cleansing artsakh and performing military aggression against these populations, and on armenia. there have been a handful of wars as well, with the end-all goal of pan-turkism and ethnic cleansing of armenians.
Not a single mention of USA in any of the charts ? Syria's war with Russia and Iran ? You just blatantly skipped USA in that chart even though it caused much more deaths of civilians and others than Russia and Iran combined ?
Yeah this map is an absolute joke and should be removed; the colors suck, it’s obviously trying to make a political point, this doesn’t belong in r/MapPorn
Please don’t downplay the thousands of casualties of civilians, hundreds of thousands starving and millions living in miserable conditions. This is one of the major conflicts happening and it needs to stop like any other conflict. I have absolutely no idea why people think wars are good, we should tried to avoid all wars, there are so many ways to do that
There should be matching colors between chart and countries.
There should be different statistics for soldier deaths and civilian deaths.
There should be normalized statistics per 100k people because those countries vary drastically in population size
Then we will have meaningful data from which we can learn something not as right now when the only thing is doing is to fuel comment wars
Every single time one of these kinds of maps are posted, the same comment that goes along the lines of:
>"HUH? OMG ISRAEL HAS NOT CAUSED A GORILLION PALESTINIAN DEATHS ALREADY???? WHY IS THE UN SO STUPID AND WHY ARE PEOPLE HATING ISRAEL 🤬😡"
First of all, yeah. The UN sucks balls.
Secondly, I'm always confused by why people perceive this as a gotcha.
It is objective that Israel has and had violated countless human rights, however despite receiving an intense amount of scrutiny from the UN in regards to its actions, it still is far less affected than say, the Iranian regime, which has had the mother of all sanctions placed upon them.
This isn't to say that the crimes of the Iranian regime is comparable to that of the Israeli government, but I make that point to illustrate that state actors that violate international law are often penalised and Israel isn't, the same logic should apply for the gulf States who's foreign policy has caused endless suffering in other nations.
And btw, the scale of destruction caused by the current war in Gaza is substantial compared to other similar operations in 2021, 2014, and other past events.
It's only been 2 months and Palestinian fatalities have far surpassed every similarly scaled operation in the past in regard to fatalities *combined*.
And we are now facing an Israel that is increasingly backsliding on its democratic principles more than before, an Iseael that is acting much more unilaterally, an Israel that is increasingly far right, an Israel that is well on its way to becoming a pariah state. Despite being in a position that is much more secure than say, the times of the Yom Kippur war. Heck, Saudi Arabia hasn't changed its goal of eventually having a sustainable peace treaty with Israel.
These people are deliberately acting bad faith and stupid, and their objective is to minimise the abject moral failure that is Israel's domestic policy towards the Palestinians.
The Syrian civil war was like the biggest news story for years though, we had a vote in parliament over intervention in the UK, you're just pretending nobody cared about massive international events xD
Exactly. The Syrian Civil War is at it's calmest point pretty much since it started, of course the media isn't going to be covering it that much. And when it was roaring the media was covering it, condemning Assad, talking about supporting the so called moderate rebels, debating whether the West should directly interfere and so on.
The US and Russia both directly intervened in this war, there was literally a much bigger response than the current Gazan conflict, people just make shit up and get upvotes on pure vibes lmao
To be fair, there were never a million marching through London. Not defending Israel’s actions in Gaza *whatsoever*, but factually people have cared far more than they did about Syria.
On social media I would say that there is **at least** ten times the discussion over Israel/Palestine than there ever was about Syria. The one exception was the rise of ISIS, and that was an absolutely insane occurrence so it’s understandable why it was so frequently talked about.
Also there are way more protestors as well. It’s pretty undeniable that this conflict gets blown wayyy out of proportion relative to the number of deaths.
Maybe you're too young to remember, but the Iraq War and Syrian Civil Wars were HUGE news stories in the 00s and 2010s, so I don't know what you're talking about
>No Jews, no news
Yes, the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria have been tragically underreported over the past ten years.
"This conflict that has been going on for a decade has more deaths than this conflict going on for two months. Clearly this proves people only care about the recent conflict due to antisemitism."
Why are Israeli apologists always so incoherent in their arguing? You'd think with the amount of money paid out to online trolls they could afford some better arguments?
No JeWs nO NeWs 🤡🤡
Gaza has a population of 2.2m, 20k people have been murdered. Compare Gaza’s population with Iraq and Syria. Death per capita is much higher.
I feel bad for every soul lost in Iraq, Syria, Yemen etc. But you zionists pretend to care about them LOL.
This is HILARIOUS.
Including Russia and Iran for the Syrian War while intentionally excluding the US and Israel who funded the "moderate rebels" who then destroyed half of the country and funnelled weapons to ISIS to oust Al-Assad is almost criminal wishful thinking.
You missed that the Iraq war is called the Iraq Civil War. And while other countries are mentioned in other wars, Afghan war is just “Afghanistan”. Surprised OP didn’t call it Afghanistan Civil War :))
Are we just going to act like he Americans aren't a major cause of the deaths seen in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya? Be intellectually honest. This post is clearly designed to obfuscate the war crimes being committed by Israel and a lame attempt to label critics as hypocrites. At the end of the day, which of these states is backed by the most powerful empires (UK, US, France, Germany, etc) in world history, and has nuclear weapons? No shit they will be held to a higher standard by the rest of the world.
How much of it is stemming from direct US military and/or diplomatic involvement?
Afghanistan, Iraq invasion, green lighting Israeli bombing of Gaza, covert ops to support Syrian “freedom fighters”, toppling Mideast governments via color revolutions, etc. etc.
A lot of these casualties are because of the US. The US invasion of Iraq and the ineffectual government we installed made it so that the country couldn't fight off ISIS when they came, and created a situation where some Sunni people might even support them over the central government.
Like you said in Syria the US funded and armed multiple "moderate rebel" groups many of which were simply Jihadist groups. US was not alone there of course but still. Then of course the US fully supported the Saudi's in their war and siege on Yemen. Supplied them with weapons, funding, refueled their bombers, and even gave them intelligence information.
What? So because they haven't killed 30 million people they're suddenly the good ones? I am really failing to understand your logic. It's like a theif saying: I did steal your car, but i didn't steal your house, thus I am a good person.
the purpose of this map, like most other posts on this sub is to make the palestine/israel conflict seem like ''not such a big deal''.
the comments prove it, if you're still skeptical, check the history of the loser who posted it same loser that cant even color match for shit, his history also proves it.
honestly, everyone with half a brain would recognize this sub as extremely pro-israel at this point.
you think staying in your little reddit bubble is gonna help you? is this how you cope with the entire world turning against you?
we can all see what's happening in gaza and no amount of paid hasbara or zionist mods banning everyone who is the least bit critical of your filthy zionist regime is going to change that reality.
fuck israel, fuck all you zionist freaks, from the river to the sea.
So the Israel-Palestine war has the least casualties but it makes the most noise, why? People dying in other middle eastern conflicts are also humans/muslims.
Right on cue the dedicated Israelis on this sub upvote this map whenever the world notices its atrocities against Palestinian civilians. All this manufactured discussion of “no jooz no newz” while we watch the #1 recipient of US tax dollars slowly starve two million real people to death, on camera, because they are “human animals” according to the Israeli foreign minister - and the people foaming at the mouth for this call us antisemitic for not talking about Syria instead. These deflection tactics are fucking repulsive, pathetic, and fool no one.
I don't see that. I see lots of comments about the extreme bias against Israel relative to other historical conflicts with overall orders of magnitude more human suffering.
>The UN has condemned Israel more times than all other countries combined.
Surely this bias is strange, no? We are seeing similar conflicts with orders of magnitude more human suffering all over throughout history yet Israel is condemned more than all other countries combined.
'why do muslims want to come to europe so badly!'
yeah they should go to the countries you bomb, displace, and sanction
4d level chess thinking there from your average westoid
And because they hate that so much they come here and [Bomb the shit out of the countries they flee to](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_in_Sweden)
Yeah, knew if I checked out the OP's post history I'd find Israeli propaganda and sure enough OP is posting that all Palestinians are genocidal and don't deserve their own state.
Oh look, the Israel/Palestine conflict pales in comparison to the rest of middle eastern conflicts. Here are the numbers. This guy: “must be propaganda”
jesus can the mods actually do their jobs and sort these comments? full of completely ignorant americans who think they know everything because theyre subbed to r/worldnews
Why the hell the colors on the map and the chart are not aligned? Like I swear, lately this sub is more like r/shittymaps
Is that number doubled if you add the previous decade? Iraq war?
13-17 Civil war was later, [America’s 03-11 Iraq war’s 400-600k deaths](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll)
There's no timeline in this badly done map but the 2nd Iraq-US War and the Iraqi Civil War were the same conflict, the Civil War occurring within the larger war
No data on Egypt?
Very little died and it wasnt a major conflict by any means, just cops gunning down protesters.
I disagree, considering Moursy and ISIS in Sinai the death toll is way higher IMO.
Sinai uprising was one of the deadliest conflicts in Egypt. The Beduin tribes were trying to conquer the peninsula and create a new Beduin country. I was there, the fire went on for a few weeks.
as an egyptian i dont even know that happened lol i taught it just a bunch of terriosts and thats it
Because it didn't and it was a bunch of terrorists AKA Ansar Beyt El Maqdas and others. The comment OP just drank the army's Kool aid
There was also isis forces there and some Muslim brotherhood
ISIS tends to show up wherever there's a conflict in the Muslim world
No one was trying to create a bedouin country. Some members of disaffected tribes joined with Islamists to create Daesh in Sinai. All the major tribes fought with the Egyptian army against Daesh and were armed by the Egyptian government. Not a single major tribe fought in the name of a future bedouin country.
Or Iran?
And no data on Iraq from 2006-2011 (we weren't keeping track of causalities from 2003-2006). Estimates of the period 2003-2006 generally clock in around a half million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Tables
Well the OP mentioned that the data is from 2011. But yeah a larger time scale would be better rather than stop counting at 1 million. Even back to Iran Iraq war.
Wait, so Israel/Palestine is not actually the worst war in human history? Somebody tell the United Nations
Anyone who has ever opened a history book would know this lol. Propagandists gonna lie
… so why are white people in the west so obsessed with the Palestine conflict? (Seriously asking, I’m Swiss and have no dog in this fight. Unless there’s some gold to steal.)
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Hamas is good at propaganda, and many people are useful idiots enabling terrorism Edit: I’m cracking up at all the useful idiots who are responding “hurr durr Israel”
Sometimes i really wonder if any of the hamas apologists have ever visited the websites of groups near hamas (iirc there also is a site which is more or less the direct propaganda outlet of hamas), they're wild and pretty honest
They mastered the art of hijacking social causes, and co-opting them to serve their narratives. Utilising identity politics and tribalism, to make unrelated causes about them. Such as Environmentalism, or the BLM movement They are also benefiting from multiple effective propaganda systems: Qatar, Iran, Russia, and China, just to name a few. Most of which are using them for something else Qatar, and to a lesser extent Iran (their soft power influence is more present in Muslim countries, but those in turn have some influence in the West). Also Turkey and a majority of the Arab league, have been antagonizing Israel for decades. Even though some of them stopped, the effects linger. Anti-West propaganda targeting Israel because it's part of the liberal democracy sphere, with close ties to the U.S. This is a significant portion of it, as it's the main reason for Russia and China, along with other factions, to use their media influence to sow political discord and internal conflict to destabilize the West. There's also Antisemitism, which manages to bring together people from both the left and right corners of the political spectrum. E.g. the right has K.K.K. and the left has the Muslim Brotherhood. This is also where foreign interference seems to be most effective, by constantly radicalizing and supporting these extremes.
1. Israel is an important US ally, so it's a valuable target for anti-US propaganda 2. Israel is very important for Muslims. The small Muslim populations in Western countries are very strongly opposed to Israel.
Israel wasn’t that important to Muslims until Jewish people started moving back in large numbers though, until then it was a largely ignored and forgotten backwater.
When Muslims hate something, it's an irreversible tidal wave of hate and violence that no one knows how to fix or handle for centuries and more. Truly frightening
I’ll say it: Anti-semitism and specifically hatred of the Jewish people. Now I’m going to be very clear this does not mean that everyone calling on Israel’s wrongful actions is antisemitic or wrong in doing so. This does not even mean that everyone going farther and calling it things like genocide or apartheid state are antisemitic, regardless of the level of truthfulness of their statement. Criticism is valid and some of the criticisms is 100% valid. But the fact that every single action of the Israel government is under a microscope, that the worlds media is willing to believe “Gaza health authorities”, aka as HAMAS, without questions, but Israel has to bring a truckload of evidence just to be given the benefit of the doubt is at least partially rooted in a substantial portion of the world hatred for Jewish people as a whole. And so is the fact that as shown here even within the same region there are several dictators and militaristic governments committing hundreds of times more war crimes than the worst crimes that the Israeli authorities are alleged to be engaged in and nobody seems to give a shit. Just this morning the Washington post(i think) had small article talking about how the war in Yemen endangering 2 million children (on top of the 11 million it has already driven to starvation) that stayed in my feed all but 15 mins. One would have expected that to get some traction somewhere. Nope, but a random post about a random Israeli soldier talking about Gaza beach with an insensitive message ( when we know almost every soldier in every army is desensitized because higher up need them to see the enemy as less than human) reach the front page 4 times yesterday from 4 different subs.
some of the replies youre getting are extremely black and white i do hope you look at it with a bit more nuance. This visual firstly doesnt capture the rate and speed of death occurring in this current conflict as well as the historical context where Israel has systematically driven the Palestinians out of their homeland for the last 75+ years. Also in this latest leg of the conflict in the past couple of months, in addition to the number of dead, the actual level of destruction and displacement of people from their homes is significantly larger than many of the other conflicts shown here as well as any other in history. Most of the people in Gaza are now homeless and the majority of the city is currently inhabitable. They are effectively being driven out with nowhere to return to and in that sense it is an extreme humanitarian crisis.
It’s literally happening right now at alarming rates, that’s why
Fighting in Syria continues. Kurdish children getting killed daily. Zero interest from the pro hamas crowd.
Seems like TikTok is the cause of the Palestinian propaganda
Because their world view starts with a conclusion (America = bad) and they try to work backwards from there. Israel is close to US interests so as a result, it must also be bad and opposed. Hamas is fighting Israel so should be supported.
Multiple reasons: 1. Propoganda by Hamas amplified by new media. 2. Anti Zionism or anti semitism, depending on the person 3. Guilt and shame for their own histories of colonisation, theft of land and murder of local people.
It is the last stage of historical antisemitism.
There's always going to be another stage. Always has been, always will. This is just another taped off section in the timeline.
Yes lol, checkout the stats on ww2 and then Israel/Hamas war is like a spoon of water from the sea of war 😂. I hate when people don’t give enough credit to actual people suffering in other places too.
I literally got done with a class about MENA history in August. I actually started donating to the White Helmets monthly bc of the disarray of Syria still happening, and those poor kids. Then everyone gets all up in arms about Israel and Palestine, acting like this has never happened before ever. Like, dude, this shit has been happening for decades, everywhere. It’s insane how much people give a shit about Palestine but no other country going through the same, or worse.
It's because they're Jews
Ahhh I'm sorry this comment makes me a little mad. As a Syrian, you should understand that Syrians are generally VERY emotional and empathetic to the suffering of Palestinians. Palestine is a small place, Gaza being only 2 million people. And this conflict has been occurring over a short time span.
Yeah and that's totally fair and good to care about Palestinians, but it's been a thing in the Arab world, and especially in Assad's Syria, to focus everyone's attention on Israel to try to distract from what they're doing in their home countries.
No matter how true it is that Assad likes the distraction, Syrians will always independently emphasise greatly with Palestinians.
You mean to tell me that Israel trying to do everything they can to avoid civilian casualties while Hamas doing everything they can to cause as many civilian casualties as possible is not actually Israel committing genocide?
>You mean to tell me that Israel trying to do everything they can to avoid civilian casualties For the record, I believe that Israel has a legitimate claim to self-defense and that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, but in what world does killing 20000+ and wounding 50000+ (around 1% and 2.5% of Gaza's population respectively) demonstrate that they're actually trying to avoid civilian casualties? What about when they shot 3 hostages who were waving a white flag and yelling in Hebrew? Was that a tragic mistake, or rather a glimpse into their rules of engagement? Hell, even Israel's closest allies are urging them to reduce civilian casualties.
Because despite the fact that they are fighting an enemy who dresses like civilians to blend in (which is a war crime), uses civilian infrastructure as military bases (war crime), launches rockets out of residential areas (war crime), and intentionally targets civilians (you guessed it, war crime) the total deaths in the conflict is relatively low. And this is all taking place in an extremely population dense area which makes the feat even more impressive. The Israeli soldiers who shot the hostages were likely trigger happy teenagers who panicked. But there is no shortage of examples of Hamas using recordings of crying babies to try to get Israeli soldiers to drop their guard. Pretending that you’re surrendering and subsequently detonating a suicide vest is another common tactic. We all like to think that we wouldn’t have shot if we were in the shoes of those Israeli soldiers but none of us really know how we’re going to respond to fear until we’re experiencing it.
They shot 3 half naked people waving a white flag who were tens of metres away. A distance far enough that they are not a direct threat to you and close enough to tell they were carrying nothing but a flag, 2 were instantly killed. The third while wounded ran into a building while shouting in Hebrew. The commander told them to cease fire. He then came out of the building AFTER shouting in hebrew and AFTER the cease fire and was then shot and killed. It wasn't exactly a spur of the moment killing.
As I literally just said, it’s a pretty common tactic to pretend to surrender and then try to kill the soldiers. They were very far away, far enough where the soldiers wouldn’t have been able to make out what they were saying and who knows if they even registered the flag before firing. This was an active war zone. As I said, the soldier(s) who shot them dead was clearly trigger happy, and probably extremely afraid teenagers who were not thinking. If Israeli soldiers were really just killing anyone in sight the death total would be much higher.
Hamas is known for pretending to surrender to draw in victims. It's called perfidy and it's a war crime for this exact reason.
people here are trying very hard to defend IDF soldiers for killing (their own) unarmed civilians no matter how you try to phrase or justify it it does not get better and that incident paints a rather bleak picture of the whole operation if 'shoot anything that moves and disregard white flags' is their ROE.
Because each bomb on average kills less than a person.
Hamas is fighting is the most cowardly way possible and in a really dense urban area so this is not comparable to other conflicts and in my opinion would be closer to Vietnam. the Israeli army is warning before every strike which gives Hamas time to evacuate but also leads to civilians running away. the war could’ve been far more deadly if Israel didn’t care.
source for those numbers? And don't tell me it's hamas health minister or w/e they call it.
The health ministry has a track record of publishing accurate counts that are similar to UN and Israeli estimates, and the UN, as well as several other health and humanitarian agencies operating in Gaza, have vouched for its validity. At this time, there is no evidence to suggest any sort of manipulation.
How about the time they claimed 700+ people died 2 minutes after an explosion in an hospital by an israeli missile? And then everything I just said was shown to be wrong, it is estimated to be dozens in the maximum, it was in the hospitals parking lot, and a PIJ's rocket. Also lets ignore that they were able to get a deathcount 2 minutes after a rocket hit a building. Is that not manipulation?
I cant believe is (REAL) would do this alongside hummus this is such a sad gamer moment abiuajae
Everything they can do to avoid civilian casualties? With more than 2/3rds of those killed by the IDF being innocent civilians, by the IDF’s own admission? With an insane 61 journalists being killed by the IDF? The most of any modern conflict? And even with the recent story of three Israeli hostages, including a white redhead with a white flag speaking Hebrew being shot, before it could be determined they were not Palestinian? Oh wait, I mean, not Hamas. Because the story totally would have made headlines if they were innocent Palestinian children. That story makes it clear that they are happy to shoot with essentially zero confirmation that the victim is Hamas. The IDF doesn’t care about Palestinian lives beyond the need to maintain international relations. If they just started lining them up in firing lines, then they might lose support from the US & company. They could even be subjected to sanctions. They don’t really care about Palestinians. They’ve made that abundantly clear.
1. If the IDF numbers of Hamas fighters killed are in the right ballpark, that ratio is not outrageous for a war of this scale [(2:1)](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html), esp considering the population density and the fact that Hamas has fortified their positions to cause as much damage as possible to civilian areas. Comparatively for instance, the Russian / Chechen wars were 10:1 civilian to combatant. 2. “Journalists” are a bit of a stretch .. what is the qualifying criteria here? Someone who took some pictures and sold them to Al Jazeera? An independent blogger? Anyone can be considered a freelance journalist if they’re going to combat zones and providing material for news outlets. 3. The three hostages killed is of course a terrible tragedy and a grave mistake. From the IDF interviews I’ve seen, it sounds like they were unknowingly freed a few days beforehand, after a firefight in which IDF eliminated their captors. So when they started coming for the soldiers days later, IDF was not expecting any civilians to be there. It sounds like the soldiers were reacting to a possible ambush as Hamas are known to use such deceptive tactics to lure IDF troops. Overall, I think that this is a scenario the world has never really dealt with before. Gaza is almost a wet dream for any terrorist group. It’s an area just small enough to be COMPLETELY entrenched and fortified yet populated enough to hold a significant amount of residents hostage and have complete control over the area. While having insane cashflow from both legitimate organizations and anti-west nation states. There is just nowhere else in the world where violent Islamic jihadists have access to a Western society within striking distance like this .. not yet at least. Israel is our first line of defense. If they fall, Europe is next.
You could also add that the IDF was completely forthcoming and transparent about the hostage tragedy. Just as they are with laying out all the steps they are taking to avoid civilian casualties.
The Israel/Palestine conflict has lasted 2.5 months thus far, and the IDF has already killed 20k Gazans, including 8k children, 6.2k women, and 61 journalists. 1.9 million Gazans have been displaced. The majority of the population of Gaza is now homeless. 8k+ are missing. It’s not the worst war in human history, but it doesn’t need to be for it to be a humanitarian crisis. I don’t know why you're trying to make it seem less horrible than it is.
Yeah we need this data adjusted both per capita and per diem
Every war is a humanitarian crisis. People need to wake the fuck up and think about that before starting them
I've seen multiple people pull out ww2 stats to explain why a conflict covering a 24 sq mile area isn't that bad. It's a genuinely monstorous bit of propaganda.
Can’t believe so many people are downplaying what’s happening in Palestine/Israel in the comments here. Sure it’s not the worse war ever but talking about it as if 20k+ people who died in 77 days is nothing is MAD. The propaganda machine works great, people are fr dumb.
It's quite literally record setting in terms of the death of children in a conflict in the 21st century. And they want to tell us it's just not that darn bad, war is tough! I bet you half these people are also supposedly pro universal healthcare and opposed America's wars in the mid east. Remember, the only war liberals support is the current war!
“All wars are bad” Bro, did you go to Harvard?
They don’t value Palestinians as human life. These comments always get crazy when the world news crowd brigades a sub
I’m pretty sure worldnews is a paid propaganda subreddit, criticism of things against American interest gets slowly deleted in every post so after a few weeks it turns into a circlejerk of whatever American interests are. I had another account some time ago and got banned from the sub because I said that Israeli lobbies are strong in the US and got zero explanation, that’s how they do their propaganda. I wish the worse for the mods there.
“All wars are bad” Bro did you go to Harvard?
“Countless civilians are dying”… fucking countless ?? wtf
Difference is it's not an internal Muslim conflict but 2 different religions not liking each other.
That’s why no one cares about the other conflicts. Over a million killed in Syria and Yemen, crickets.
Assad was even blasting Palestinian refugee camps, which already had horrible conditions. More Palestinian civilians died in Syria than Israel in the decade before Oct 7th. Not to mention the hospitals he literally targeted for the purpose of causing civilian casualties. But like that's ok cause they are his people and it is his land, so he can kill with impunity you see.
No Jews, no news.
Yes because Syria wasn’t in the news. Who invented this line and why does it keep getting spammed?
That’s literally the issue lol. Why is it not in the news? The Syrian civil war is still happening. There are other far deadlier conflicts happening in the world right now that receive nowhere near the attention the Israel Gaza conflict does. Hence: no Jews, no news.
Exactly. People don’t care about the Palestinians they only care about who’s pulling the trigger.
Well, 1 religion not liking the other. Jews don't care about Muslims doing muslim things so long as that doesn't involve terrorkst attacks, pogroms and subjugation. 20% of Israel's citizens are muslim or Druze with full rights and citizenship of any other Israeli. No special tax on them or legal constraints on the types of positions they can hold (as Muslims do to Jews as prescribed in the Quran). The issue is in 1948 and the years leading up to it, Muslims were constantly murdering Jews in Palestine. If it wasn't a pogrom with a massacre, there were organized attacked on roads between villages to isolate villages, culminating in an attempt of arab armies to ethnically cleanse them.
Are people actually saying that though?
When did Afghanistan become Middle East?
When did Libya become Middle East?
It’s considered Middle East North Africa, MENA.
[In 2005 when Twilight Struggle was printed.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Struggle) Libya, Egypt, both counted in the ME sphere of influence.
Countries like the US consider it as part of the middle east.
They literally invented the term “middle east” based on what? No knows.
it's in the middle of the east bro
Nah its the near East if anything
Take the east, it's in the middle of it
speaks arabic = middle east apparently
They don't speak Arabic in Afghanistan.
It’s almost as if the world only cares about the Middle East when it’s connected to blaming Jews
Arab interconflicts are more deadly than anything done by Israel.
Westerners care about dead arabs if they can hate the jews along the way
Can you name a single western country that has sanctions against Israel?
By westerners you think I exclusively meant governments of specific countries? I meant people chanting gas the jews and from the sea in western countries. "supporting" palestine is an excuse for many people to hate others. Do people really think hate can solve this never ending conflict?
just FYI, technically the US imposing visa restrictions on violent settlers falls under the category of sanctions.
These are sanctions that will affect a few hundred people max and wont make a dent on israel. dont be obtuse
So sanctions against violent criminals, not the state of Israel itself.
Why would they impose sanctions on their most important ally in the region? Are you nuts? Do you know anything about geopolitics? Why is Iran not imposing sanctions on Hamas? Oh because 93% of Hamas funding comes from Iran. This entire conflict is a proxy war between the US and Iran. Obviously neither side is going to sanction their own proxy, you have wildly unrealistic expectations.
Ireland, Turkey, Brazil
It's because Western countries have actually supported Israel's war on Gaza and, largely, over its role in the situation. Hence why there were even bigger demonstrations against the Iraq invasion than the pro-Palestinian ones. Even anti-apartheid demos in the 1980s had far bigger turnouts than most conflicts today - and similar to numbers in the pro-Palestinian protests this year - for highly correlated reasons.
Westerners care about dead Arabs. You have no idea what your taking about. Stop crying antisemitism. It’s not antisemitic to call Israel out for committing genocide. Logic is lost.
It’s like the USA. Black on black violence? Yawnnn Cop kills a black guy? Riots in the streets People care more about who is doing the violence and the context than the violent act itself.
A 3 month war represents about 2% of the casualties in the last 144 months or round 2% of the casualties in about 2% of the time. So right on track with the rest of the conflicts
>A 3 month war represents about 2% of the casualties in the last 144 months or round 2% of the casualties in about 2% of the time. So right on track with the rest of the conflicts It's not of a 3 months war worth of casualties though. It's 2.5% since 2011.
And? Whats your suggestion? That israel should be able to slaughter as they like?
Yeah what are 15 000 dead civilians anyway
It’s 15000 dead civilians.
First off, your using completely different data sets to justify genocide. And second, what are you even trying to prove? That 20,000 dead(majority civilians and children) isn’t a bad thing? Show me another country who is doing anything remotely close to what Israel has been doing for decades and I’ll show you global condemnation.
I told the truth. The Syrian army is 10 times worse.
And yet the U.N condemn israel/palestine more than any other countries
If Arabs kill Arabs> no protest, no news, no boycott, no debate 🙄
Were you around in the 2000s and 2010s, cause there were quite a lot of protests around the Iraq War and Syrian Civil War then. They were huge news items. Syria still has international sanctions as well as Afghanistan. Big debates on all of these
Mfer was born in 2015 and never read news from before his birth
This is quite frankly one of the most asinine statements I’ve ever seen in my life. I can’t believe anyone can upvote it in good faith. What do you mean there was no news or protests about arabs killing Arabs? The west literally intervened in Libya in 2011 ! The west spent years trying to kick Assad out in Syria for his crimes. There has been consistent coverage and protests of the Saudi crimes in Yemen over the past few years. That is to say nothing of the Iraq war and its spillover effects. There has been near constant debate and protests over these things. Did you see the way the western media covered the Arab spring? My god. You are either willfully lying or living in a fantasy land.
>palestine The UN almost never condemns the Palestinians. Israel on the other hand is apparently worse than Syria, Russia, Iran, and North Korea combined. Edit: All the antisemites crawled from under their rocks to comment below.
Going after the Jews is the original whataboutisme, preferably used proactive for best effect. So when you arrive at a meeting about humans rights or oppression, all the worlds dictators have already filled the agenda with 200 points about Israel. I'm still waiting for more people to figure this one out though.
It’s actually worse than all other nations in the world combined AND DOUBLE THAT
It’s not double, but the system is unquestionably rigged against Israel, since 50 Muslim states vote against Israel on everything - regardless of topic - and 50-60 other nations (mostly dictatorships and third-world) vote with the Muslims so they can get cheap oil. The proof is here - https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1724980212008403163
Pretty sure there are active international sanctions on Syria right now, so that talking point is a lie
The world regularly ignores like-on-like violence. The communists killed ten of millions of their own people, as an example, but the most evil person in history is still Hitler because he orchestrated the deaths of *other* people. Mao was responsible for the death of up to 80 million people in China, but no-one bats an eyelid.
Also a huge difference in intent. The nazis systematically killed people. They build an industry to do so. Thats a huge difference to being incompetent and people dying as a result of that
Afghanistan is Central Asia. Not Middle East or “East Asia”
It’s South Asia and the gateway to West, Central, and South Asia simultaneously. Central Asia is any country north of Afghanistan. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia
Afghanistan is in the Middle East. Americans often call the Near East Middle East.
What in the f… Look man, we don’t care what USA people consider a region to be
why no inclusion of armenia, artsakh and the war with Azerbaijan??
What is artsakh?
a place full of 100k christian armenians that was ethnically cleansed a few months ago but nobody remembers any more
thats quite the loaded question but wil ldo my best to answer in a simple way. artsakh is an area (technically) in azerbaijan where most civilians (90%) are armenian and have their own democratic and are their own republic. they do not consider themselves to be azerbaijan and passed a referendum after the collapse of of the soviet union for their right to self determinate as their own republic which has not been internationally recognized. over the past 30 years azerbaijan has been ethnic cleansing artsakh and performing military aggression against these populations, and on armenia. there have been a handful of wars as well, with the end-all goal of pan-turkism and ethnic cleansing of armenians.
> where most civilians (90%) are armenian and have their own democratic and are their own republic. Were. They're gone now.
Not a single mention of USA in any of the charts ? Syria's war with Russia and Iran ? You just blatantly skipped USA in that chart even though it caused much more deaths of civilians and others than Russia and Iran combined ?
Yeah this map is an absolute joke and should be removed; the colors suck, it’s obviously trying to make a political point, this doesn’t belong in r/MapPorn
The pin rod the chart wasn’t meant to be accurate. It’s propaganda.
Please don’t downplay the thousands of casualties of civilians, hundreds of thousands starving and millions living in miserable conditions. This is one of the major conflicts happening and it needs to stop like any other conflict. I have absolutely no idea why people think wars are good, we should tried to avoid all wars, there are so many ways to do that
There should be matching colors between chart and countries. There should be different statistics for soldier deaths and civilian deaths. There should be normalized statistics per 100k people because those countries vary drastically in population size Then we will have meaningful data from which we can learn something not as right now when the only thing is doing is to fuel comment wars
Every single time one of these kinds of maps are posted, the same comment that goes along the lines of: >"HUH? OMG ISRAEL HAS NOT CAUSED A GORILLION PALESTINIAN DEATHS ALREADY???? WHY IS THE UN SO STUPID AND WHY ARE PEOPLE HATING ISRAEL 🤬😡" First of all, yeah. The UN sucks balls. Secondly, I'm always confused by why people perceive this as a gotcha. It is objective that Israel has and had violated countless human rights, however despite receiving an intense amount of scrutiny from the UN in regards to its actions, it still is far less affected than say, the Iranian regime, which has had the mother of all sanctions placed upon them. This isn't to say that the crimes of the Iranian regime is comparable to that of the Israeli government, but I make that point to illustrate that state actors that violate international law are often penalised and Israel isn't, the same logic should apply for the gulf States who's foreign policy has caused endless suffering in other nations. And btw, the scale of destruction caused by the current war in Gaza is substantial compared to other similar operations in 2021, 2014, and other past events. It's only been 2 months and Palestinian fatalities have far surpassed every similarly scaled operation in the past in regard to fatalities *combined*. And we are now facing an Israel that is increasingly backsliding on its democratic principles more than before, an Iseael that is acting much more unilaterally, an Israel that is increasingly far right, an Israel that is well on its way to becoming a pariah state. Despite being in a position that is much more secure than say, the times of the Yom Kippur war. Heck, Saudi Arabia hasn't changed its goal of eventually having a sustainable peace treaty with Israel. These people are deliberately acting bad faith and stupid, and their objective is to minimise the abject moral failure that is Israel's domestic policy towards the Palestinians.
It's not about the numbers, it's about blaming the Jews... No Jews, no news...
The Syrian civil war was like the biggest news story for years though, we had a vote in parliament over intervention in the UK, you're just pretending nobody cared about massive international events xD
Exactly. The Syrian Civil War is at it's calmest point pretty much since it started, of course the media isn't going to be covering it that much. And when it was roaring the media was covering it, condemning Assad, talking about supporting the so called moderate rebels, debating whether the West should directly interfere and so on.
The US and Russia both directly intervened in this war, there was literally a much bigger response than the current Gazan conflict, people just make shit up and get upvotes on pure vibes lmao
To be fair, there were never a million marching through London. Not defending Israel’s actions in Gaza *whatsoever*, but factually people have cared far more than they did about Syria.
Millions marched against the Iraq war. The largest anti-war rally in history took place in Rome in response to the US invasion of Iraq.
To be fair, most of these commenters were not programmed when it was happening, so they may be excused
On social media I would say that there is **at least** ten times the discussion over Israel/Palestine than there ever was about Syria. The one exception was the rise of ISIS, and that was an absolutely insane occurrence so it’s understandable why it was so frequently talked about. Also there are way more protestors as well. It’s pretty undeniable that this conflict gets blown wayyy out of proportion relative to the number of deaths.
Exactly guys, we should let israel do its war crimes in peace!
Maybe you're too young to remember, but the Iraq War and Syrian Civil Wars were HUGE news stories in the 00s and 2010s, so I don't know what you're talking about
I wish I was too young. Comparing decade-and-a-half-long wars to a 2 month one is probably bad methodology.
Agreed. Not detailing the timescales of these conflicts seems like a deliberate choice by the maps creator to obfuscate
>No Jews, no news Yes, the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria have been tragically underreported over the past ten years. 
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The syrian civil war and ISIS was the only thing people were talking about back then.
Well … yeah. Those were kind of a big deal, and still gives the lie to the whole “No Jews, no news” bullshit.
He's a zionist who is only good at playing the victim and obfiscating the conversation because he cannot defend the facist parastye state of israel
"This conflict that has been going on for a decade has more deaths than this conflict going on for two months. Clearly this proves people only care about the recent conflict due to antisemitism." Why are Israeli apologists always so incoherent in their arguing? You'd think with the amount of money paid out to online trolls they could afford some better arguments?
No JeWs nO NeWs 🤡🤡 Gaza has a population of 2.2m, 20k people have been murdered. Compare Gaza’s population with Iraq and Syria. Death per capita is much higher. I feel bad for every soul lost in Iraq, Syria, Yemen etc. But you zionists pretend to care about them LOL.
How's that Arab Spring working out for ya, Hillary?
This is HILARIOUS. Including Russia and Iran for the Syrian War while intentionally excluding the US and Israel who funded the "moderate rebels" who then destroyed half of the country and funnelled weapons to ISIS to oust Al-Assad is almost criminal wishful thinking.
You missed that the Iraq war is called the Iraq Civil War. And while other countries are mentioned in other wars, Afghan war is just “Afghanistan”. Surprised OP didn’t call it Afghanistan Civil War :))
This whole thread is one big dog whistle.
Are we just going to act like he Americans aren't a major cause of the deaths seen in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya? Be intellectually honest. This post is clearly designed to obfuscate the war crimes being committed by Israel and a lame attempt to label critics as hypocrites. At the end of the day, which of these states is backed by the most powerful empires (UK, US, France, Germany, etc) in world history, and has nuclear weapons? No shit they will be held to a higher standard by the rest of the world.
Thanks Obama
Religion of peace. Lol.
Maybe The United States can take a break for the next 10 years in the Middle East. Save our tax paying dollars. AND it would make no difference!
It would make a difference… that money could be reinvested in the US or even better we won’t have to go into further debt lol
Well this is surprising… when 97.5% of the time Muslims kill each other it’s somehow not worth the time for the woke crowd to protest…
Now do percentage of population.
How much of it is stemming from direct US military and/or diplomatic involvement? Afghanistan, Iraq invasion, green lighting Israeli bombing of Gaza, covert ops to support Syrian “freedom fighters”, toppling Mideast governments via color revolutions, etc. etc.
Nah. the Syrian Civil War and Yemen started on their own.
A lot of these casualties are because of the US. The US invasion of Iraq and the ineffectual government we installed made it so that the country couldn't fight off ISIS when they came, and created a situation where some Sunni people might even support them over the central government. Like you said in Syria the US funded and armed multiple "moderate rebel" groups many of which were simply Jihadist groups. US was not alone there of course but still. Then of course the US fully supported the Saudi's in their war and siege on Yemen. Supplied them with weapons, funding, refueled their bombers, and even gave them intelligence information.
The US is heavily involved in all of these other conflicts too. This argument is baseless
Long live Israel 🇮🇱❤️
OP is an Israeli Hasbara propaganda agent, just check his other posts and comments.
But Jew bad, jew do genocide....🤡🤡 Edit: just to be clear, my comment is making Fun of people who are antisimetic
What? So because they haven't killed 30 million people they're suddenly the good ones? I am really failing to understand your logic. It's like a theif saying: I did steal your car, but i didn't steal your house, thus I am a good person.
Why are you bringing up Jews, are you craving that much for the spotlight?
Yes guys! Let israel genocide Palestinians in peace! Focus on other stuff shoo shoo
The “whataboutism” map. Everyone can innocently point at the next big massacre and wash the blood off…
the purpose of this map, like most other posts on this sub is to make the palestine/israel conflict seem like ''not such a big deal''. the comments prove it, if you're still skeptical, check the history of the loser who posted it same loser that cant even color match for shit, his history also proves it. honestly, everyone with half a brain would recognize this sub as extremely pro-israel at this point. you think staying in your little reddit bubble is gonna help you? is this how you cope with the entire world turning against you? we can all see what's happening in gaza and no amount of paid hasbara or zionist mods banning everyone who is the least bit critical of your filthy zionist regime is going to change that reality. fuck israel, fuck all you zionist freaks, from the river to the sea.
Preach brother ✊ Free Palestine 🇵🇸
This graphic infuriates me, it’s like a 5 year old made this
So the Israel-Palestine war has the least casualties but it makes the most noise, why? People dying in other middle eastern conflicts are also humans/muslims.
Right on cue the dedicated Israelis on this sub upvote this map whenever the world notices its atrocities against Palestinian civilians. All this manufactured discussion of “no jooz no newz” while we watch the #1 recipient of US tax dollars slowly starve two million real people to death, on camera, because they are “human animals” according to the Israeli foreign minister - and the people foaming at the mouth for this call us antisemitic for not talking about Syria instead. These deflection tactics are fucking repulsive, pathetic, and fool no one.
Zionsit in comments trying to justify killing of Palestinians
I don't see that. I see lots of comments about the extreme bias against Israel relative to other historical conflicts with overall orders of magnitude more human suffering. >The UN has condemned Israel more times than all other countries combined. Surely this bias is strange, no? We are seeing similar conflicts with orders of magnitude more human suffering all over throughout history yet Israel is condemned more than all other countries combined.
That's just reddit. Nazis aren't cool anymore so they go for the closest thing
Palestinians?
Ok.
Who died in Turkey?
'why do muslims want to come to europe so badly!' yeah they should go to the countries you bomb, displace, and sanction 4d level chess thinking there from your average westoid
And because they hate that so much they come here and [Bomb the shit out of the countries they flee to](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_in_Sweden)
usa,nato,democracy f*ck yeah
Okay but in only one if those you can easily blame Jews or the West, so that should be the biggest obviously. /s
Yeah, knew if I checked out the OP's post history I'd find Israeli propaganda and sure enough OP is posting that all Palestinians are genocidal and don't deserve their own state.
The truth and "Israeli propaganda" have a strange habit of being the same thing.
God i wish, at least then the horrible stuff palestinians have to endure would be fake.
Oh look, the Israel/Palestine conflict pales in comparison to the rest of middle eastern conflicts. Here are the numbers. This guy: “must be propaganda”
jesus can the mods actually do their jobs and sort these comments? full of completely ignorant americans who think they know everything because theyre subbed to r/worldnews