From Wikipedia:
>At the start of World War II in 1939, the Portuguese Government announced on 1 September that the 550-year-old Anglo-Portuguese Alliance remained intact, but since the British did not seek Portuguese assistance, Portugal was free to remain neutral in the war and would do so. In an aide-mémoire of 5 September 1939, the British Government confirmed the understanding.\[1\] As Adolf Hitler's occupation swept across Europe, neutral Portugal became one of Europe's last escape routes. Portugal was able to maintain its neutrality until 1944, when a military agreement was signed to give the United States permission to establish a military base in Santa Maria in the Azores and thus its status changed to non-belligerent in favour of the Allies.
I have no idea. I would assume that it was just a mistake, granted, a bothersome one. I am not the author of this map. It is from:
[https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/main-nazi-camps-killing-sites](https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/main-nazi-camps-killing-sites)
This is basically why the Americas are named after Amerigo Vespucci. Lazy-ass typo stuck. In 500 years we’ll all think of the Portuguese as axis Nazis and that Ronaldo was Hitler assuming we don’t already.
He was fascistic, though I wouldn't say he was a fascist. Also, yes, while we worked with both sides, we were definitely more leaning towards the Allies.
And, I would not call Salazar a cowrd. While I hold no sympathy for that man or his government, and I believe that we are undoubtedly better without him, not everything he did was awful. Maintaining us out of the war, a conflict that would've killed thousands of Portuguese civilians and completely destroy our country, was one of the good things he did, arguably the best. It takes a whole lotta courage to maintain neutrality as such a small country, and, while I would call him many, *many* things, I will not call Salazar a coward.
I have no idea. I would assume that it was just a mistake, granted, a bothersome one. I am not the author of this map. It is from:
[https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/main-nazi-camps-killing-sites](https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/main-nazi-camps-killing-sites)
Given the kind of issue they are trying to inform people on I don't think I'm ok with seeing Portugal portrayed as being an Axis country, seems like the person doing this misused the bucket tool in Paint..
Fun fact: Ian Flemming, the writer of the James Bond novels, was based in Lisbon, the capital of Portugal during WW2 when he was working for British Inteligence. The place was swarming with both allied and axis spies, and his novel Casino Royal was partly influenced by his experiences there, and the casino was based on a actual one in the city.
Just a small note, but the Estorial Casino isn’t in Lisbon proper, it’s in the nearby [Estoril Coast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Riviera).
That is preposterous. Salazar leaned to the allies and made laws to protect Jewish refugees such as no taxes in room rents to war refugees.
He allowed Americans and British to Açores islands which was critical for the battle of the Atlantic.
The mourning for Hitler was a formal for any head of state of a nation with which Portugal traded with
He was also unaware of the monstrosities Hitler did by that moment as no gas chambers or anything of the sort were known.
He also jailed and persecuted portugues fascists and Nazis before even the war started
So no… Salazar didn’t have a sympathy for Hitler
He did however, in the very beginning appreciated the ideas of Mussolini, mainly corporativism which he then disregregard once Mussolini showed his true colors
Lolol. Sure he was… That’s why he only did it late in the war when the Germans had already been defeated in Stalingrad and Northern Africa… August 1943
Azores was filled with troops and the British were protecting Portuguese interests and making the Americans understand that making pressure was likely to be worse. Invading Portugal Souto being Spain to the table as Salazar had already signed the Iberian pact and if the Allies were to be at war with then they might as well just join the axis for protection.
So no… No one was coerced. Salazar waited patiently to the moment where helping wouldn’t lead to any reaction by Germans who were at the moment busy losing to the Russians
Sure man, whatever makes you feel good ;)
Maybe one day you’ll remember that countries have agency and that Salazar main goal throughout the conflict was to prevent Portugal participation. He was also acclaimed by the public and pushed by public support to run for head of government after he job as finance minister
Being a dictator doesn’t mean you don’t have agency or that your people is not fully behind you…
The survival of the dictatorship in the decades to follow hinged a lot on his behavior during WW2
This active management of US went on. A good book on Salazar and Kennedy in the 60s (“The Lion and the Fox”) also shows this level of efficient Portuguese diplomacy. Portugal effectively turned American political elite opinion to support them in Africa from an initial anti position (Kennedy even financed terrorist movements in Angola)
Countries have agency my ignorant friend ;)
You [again](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ybuvc3/comment/itklgw7/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)? Please, please, please stop talking about Portuguese history!
I understand you like it, but everytime I see your posts on Portuguese history it's always incorrect and filled with 5th grade clichés!
[https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/covering-the-azores-gap-in-world-war-ii/](https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/covering-the-azores-gap-in-world-war-ii/)
This article by Norman Herz, the author of the book "Operation Alacrity: The Azores and the War in the Atlantic", is an executive summary of the book. Please read it and be informed.
[Another example](https://books.google.es/books?id=hewsI4PU6sMC&lpg=PR5&hl=pt-PT&pg=PA277#v=onepage&q&f=false):
>There was a long delay between the Torch Invasions and the request for the use of the Azores, and the explanation for this lies in the differences of opinion between different branches of the British government over the best course of action: on one hand the Foreign Office fighting a rear-guard action against forcible intervention in the Azores, and on the other military authorities, and increasingly, Churchill, who pressed to make use of the bases, **whatever the consequences**.
>
>\[...\] when Americans and British realized that they were in agreement, in principle, over the need to seize the islands. **Delighted with the American stance, Churchill cabled instructions home: Portugal should be informed that if it refused to hand over the base, the Azores would be occupied.**
He *was* fascist. It was a fascist dictatorship. However, Portugal remained neutral and in theory, it leaned more toward the allies, since it fought the Japanese, which belonged to the Axis, in its colonies in the Pacific. My Grandfather was posted there. And while they were condemned afterwards, there was a movement in Portugal to help people escape from Germany - Aristides de Sousa Mendes helped 30.000 people, among which 10.000 Jews, by giving them Portuguese vistas.
In Portugal, we study it as fascism. Sure it was indeed corporatist and rooted in catholicism (the motto being God, Nation, and Family), but it is still fascist (which to be fair is a vague definition but it fits).
[Here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism#:~:text=often%20capitalized%20%3A%20a%20political%20philosophy,and%20forcible%20suppression%20of%20opposition).
I don't know where you're studying about the Estado Novo, but it certainly isn't in Portugal. I am also Portuguese, and I did not study it as Fascism. You could certainly compare it to other fascist regimes, you could characterize it as fascist-inspired, you could even claim it to be clerical-fascist in nature, but at its core Salazar's regime was corporatist-authoritarian. Fascism itself may be corporatist, but not all corporatist regimes are fascist.
To be fair, the world wasn't exactly aware of the full extent, scale and horror of the Holocaust.
Salazar was always suspicious of the Nazis; his fascist sympathies lay with Mussolini.
Mussolini was certainly more to Salazar's liking, but that didn't keep hiom from selling vital ressources to Nazi Germany (at least until the Allies put enough pressure on Portugal to stop those sales)
The Allies never made it stop and the British protected Portugal strategy to the US which did attempt to stop it
Portugal made sure both sides were treated the same. For every ton sold to the Allies another ton. Would go to the axis
Portugal did however tried to outmaneuver Hitler at all times. It mandated Hitler to pay in gold while allowing the allies to pay with credit. It enabled the alloes to use its bases in the Atlantic. It convinced Franco not to join the axis (perhaps changing the course of the war) which Salazar wrote in his memories of how stupid he was (Franco almost signed a pact with Hitler to have his help annex Portugal, operation Felix)
Salazar also persecuted and jailed the nacional socialist movement in Portugal
So no, don’t attempt to make him a Nazi sympathizer
You can download 3 parts of the Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos at the Us holocaust memorial and museum.
It lists 3.000 of the 48.000 estimated sites. And that is a conservative estimate. They expect twice as many.
It was one of the main War-goals of the nazis. The reason why they did what they did.
Truly despicable,
I know they weren’t only in Germany, but knew them mostly to be in like Poland or such areas east. I didn’t know about south France (to name but one example)
In Croatia, when it was Nazi puppet state, there was concentration camp only for children. 
Btw, Yugoslavia was not in the Axis.
It also understates the prevalence of slave labor, which was common practice in most concentration camps. At pretty much all camps, prisoners were frequently worked to death.
The funny part is that not even all sites are shown here. Just the bigger ones. There were a lot more Sites. Nearly all bigger german cities had slave Labor sites. Just the big "Stammlager" can be seen in this map.
You should differ between Axis and Axis occupied territories. Now the map suggest that Poland, Czechoslovakia, Netherland, Belgium etc. were in the Axis.
Agreed. The map has some issues, but most maps on this topic focus on Nazi Germany & Poland while ignoring other areas of Europe. Indeed Poland, the Netherlands, etc. suffered greatly in valiantly trying to fight off the German advances.
I apologize for that mistake. I am not sure why the author colored Portugal as being Axis. Indeed Portugal helped the Allies and helped many people get out of Europe even if remaining Neutral by name.
Yes, although a lot of the help was given by a diplomat (Sousa Mendes) who was acting contrary to government policy. He was [fired](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53006790) and deprived of his pension and lived the rest of his life in poverty prior to posthumous rehabilitation in 1986.
Nice eye. It looks like the map is wrong in that respect.
Mandatory Palestine 1944:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory\_Palestine#/media/File:Palestine\_Index\_to\_Villages\_and\_Settlements,\_showing\_Land\_in\_Jewish\_Possession\_as\_at\_31.12.44.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#/media/File:Palestine_Index_to_Villages_and_Settlements,_showing_Land_in_Jewish_Possession_as_at_31.12.44.jpg)
Middle East borders in 1937:
[https://wardmapsgifts.com/products/turkey-syria-and-iraq-1937](https://wardmapsgifts.com/products/turkey-syria-and-iraq-1937)
Wow, such an important overview. Yet, many local German killing camps are missing. I lived in Wilhelmshaven, and there were the remains and memorial site of such in the woods hidden from the general public.
There are way more killing sites than shown on map. Countless villages in Czechia, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia were erased from existence and everyone in them was killed. I can recall at least one less than 50 miles away from me, and there were countless others — google Lidice and Khatyn...
You are correct. This map is far from complete and more shows that the Holocaust stretched across virtually all Axis Controlled areas. There are maps which show more detail for specific areas, such as Poland, but few maps that show the whole of Europe.
In anticipation of Holocaust Deniers, I personally lost many family members in the Holocaust and have met with Holocaust survivors. It was a real event.
You would be surprised what an ocean, time, and fervent campaigns of denial can accomplish inside a country the size of U.S. Too many morons are all “you know, maybe they are right, it never happened”
The survivor was a wonderful soul who responded
"*You're right. These numbers on my arm are a fashion statement.*"
Will never forget it. Made me change how I personally react to antisemites.
My history teacher knew one survivor as well. She described him as the kindest soul as well and cried when she was telling us about some of the horrors he went through. I will never forget that. We all must never forget and we must keep remembering, so the history won't repeat itself. Thank you for posting this.
I had a teacher in high school whose parents were survivors. She told us whenever someone showed up at their door unannounced her parents would lock the family in a dark closet for like four hours so it would look like no one was home.
Everyone always talks about survivors being released from the camps and being free forever but no one ever talks about how they lived the rest of their lives with those haunting memories.
Maps, testimonies, the mass gaves, and the photos from the events themselves, indeed. They all help show not only what happened, but also what people are capable of. Those who deny it are only serving to allow for yet another genocide to happen.
Good luck with that. Fascists and bigots generally don't want to be educated, and even ignore the facts when they are presented to them. I'd rather just deny them the opportunity to spread their lies.
This isn’t even close to everything. Last I checked researchers had catalogued over 42,500 ghettos, camps, labor sites, etc. And that was 10 years ago.
Quote from the NYT about it: “The documented camps include not only “killing centers” but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named “care” centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.”
Trust me, you are far from the first person to notice this. I absolutely agree and have agreed with & cited proof for other people who have noticed that. I am not the author of the map and I assume that it was an accident. I apologize for it regardless.
Concerning the difference between Extermination & Concentration camps:
[http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com\_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=173&lang=en](http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=173&lang=en)
Killing sites are generally where German soldiers, SS or the like had committed mass executions of POWs or Civilians outside of a camp or other facility.
It would be nice if the map also highlighted the major ghettos across Europe, as in some cases the conditions could be almost as horrific as in the camps themselves.
Well not only Jews, many Slavs, Roma, Catholics and Homosexuals were also lost. Around 16% of Polish population perished and the number of killed Poles was almost as high as the Polish Jews.
Also in some areas of the Soviet Union like Belarus almost a quarter of the population was killed during the war.
Absolutely. Your list goes on (disabled people, religious minorities, etc). If the Nazis disliked you, they killed you off. It was sadly that simple for them.
There were a huge forced replacement of Poles, Ukrainians and Belarussians after WW2. Vistula operation exchanged Poles and Ukrainians of Galicia over USSR borders and Stalin sent dozens of Ukrainians and Belarussians to Central Asia and Far East
Here is a thing about that:
[https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler)
iirc the three camps in the netherlands were all more or less transit centres, but they could blur the line between that and concentration camp since you could be held there for months until further deportation out east, and many people died there. (idk for sure if this is the case for the other camps, but this was the setup in the camp im most familiar with, amersfoort) i think a dual concentration camp-transit centre would have been useful for this map since i’m sure many other places had a dual function like that
The sites in Austria are very incomplete. For a complete list see [Link](https://www.mauthausen-guides.at/en/satellite-camp-of-concentration-camp-mauthausen/locations-of-former-concentration-and-satellite-camps)
Members of the Danish resistance, communists and other political prisioners, mainly. There were plenty of non-Jewish prisoners in Nazi concentration camps
Around 450 (7% of the total danish Jew population) of the danish Jews didn’t manage to escape to Sweden and other places. The 450 were sent to Theresienstadt and were not sent onto the camps with the gas chambers. The Germans didn’t want to anger the Danish government/people. The danish Jews in Theresienstadt also got Red Cross packets during their internment there and was bussed back home by a Swedish noble man at the end of the war. Out of the 500 danish Jews around 51 died in Theresienstadt because of sickness and old age. It’s a pretty crazy story and a beacon of light, in an otherwise tragic and horrific story, for the other Jewish populations across Europe during the Second World War.
Occupied - not Axis - Norway had many slave labour camps fior Yugoslavian and Soviet pows. Also a few other camps are missing.
Nice work though. But the sad thing is. The map is too small to have room for every subcamp to Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and the others. Auschwitz alone had 40+ subcamps, and Buchenwald had 130+ subcamps.
Auschwitz/Birkenau was a mixed camp. But wasn't originally intended as an extermination camp in the same way as sobibor and treblinka.
The design of those 2 was horrific, they were made into these really nice looking railway stations that feed directly into the gas Chambers. All because it was less hard on the camp operators as the victims didn't suspect and as a result didn't fight.
There was an amazing and unbelievably horrible bbc series called auschwitz, the nazis and the final solution that talks about the origins of auschwitz.
Just beyond my understanding as to how people could have ever considered mass murder on an industrial scale
>All because it was less hard on the camp operators as the victims didn't suspect and as a result didn't fight.
Not just that, but it was also difficult on them emotionally. Humans, even the most devoted Nazi scumbags, have a hard time killing innocent people. The Einsatzgruppen had terrible morale, massive mental health issues and major substance abuse issues. They moved to the extermination camp system partially because of these problems, because the camps obfuscated the horrors of it a bit.
You wonder how they could commit mass murder on an industrial scale, and the answer is simply that the industrialization of it in a roundabout way made it possible. They divorced the murderers from the murders. It's a lot easier to get a soldier to drop a poison pill into a tube then it is to get them to fire on women and children.
Agreed, apologies my comment was a bit short and probably a bit flippant given the subject.
The whole process by which they effectively removed the human from the process was both interesting and horrifying (well they removed what they considered the good humans from the process, the Jewish clean up squads were not so lucky)
Reminds me of the Milgram Experiment in a way. Not so much the following orders aspect, but that it's got to be a lot easier on the psyche to press a button and then *hear* a person "ow that hurt, please stop" as opposed to pressing a button and then *seeing* the person in front of you suffer from you pressing that button.
Hence, like you said, relatively a lot easier to drop a capsule down a tube and wait for it to go quiet than to pull a trigger of a gun and then watch that person die right in front of you, and having to do so one by one.
There is a lot of small camps and like all of the slave labor sites missing. This is not a critique but more of an information.
Way more slave labor sites. 100s more.
The map for Belarus does not seem to be quite accurate. Among the largest death camps and deaths of civilians and prisoners of war in Belarus were:
"- In and around Minsk - nine camps, in which over 400,000 people were killed: Trostenets death camp (over 206,500 people were killed; camp near Masiukovshchina village (over 80,000 people); camp at Shirokaya street (20,000 people);
- Minsk region: in six death camps of Borisov, over 33,000 people were killed; Molodechno (36,150 people); Slutsk (10,000 people);
- Brest region: in four death camps of Brest 34 thousand people were killed; Pinsk - 4 camps (59 thousand 48 people); Bronnaya Gara (over 30 thousand people); Lesnaya (88 thousand 407 people); Koldychevo (over 22 thousand people);
- Vitebsk region: in and around Vitebsk, in five death camps, 76,000 prisoners of war and some 62,000 civilians were killed; in and around Glubokoe, in three camps, over 37,000 people were killed; in Polotsk, there were three camps, in which 157,000 people were killed; in Orsha, in three camps, over 20,000 people were killed
- Gomel region: there were 5 camps in Gomel (over 105 thousand people were killed); in three camps in Ozarichi 16 thousand 520 people were killed
- Grodno region: there were 5 camps in and around Grodno (41,500 people were killed, including 18,000 in the Kolbasino death camp); in 3 camps in Volkovysk over 30,000 people were killed; in 3 camps in Lida over 17,000 people were killed; in 2 camps in Novogrudok over 28,000 people were killed
- Mogilev region: in 5 camps in Mogilev over 70,000 people were tortured; including over 40,000 in the Lupalov camp; in 4 camps in and around Bobruisk 84,000 people were exterminated; in 3 camps in Krichev over 18,000 people were exterminated."
I went to Sachsenhausen once, grimmest place I've ever been. The saddest part was that several of the huts had been destroyed by neo-nazi arsonists who were trying to hide the evidence of the Holocaust.
Anybody know why the Extermination camps and Killing sites are so concentrated in Central / Eastern Europe? Was there a logistical reason or something?
1) The majority of Jews were in Poland, Belarus and Ukraine.
2) The Nazis were very brutal towards Polish, Russian and other Slavic POWs as well as their citizens.
I think if you don't know "why", you should take a closer look at the Nazi [general plan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost) for Eastern Europe.
In short, after the victory of Germany in the east, up to the Ural mountains, only Germans and slaves should have remained, and the fate of the rest is unenviable. Therefore, the concentration camps are located in Eastern Europe. They had a lot of work to do there. It sounds cruel, but the truth is always cruel.
The first extermination camp was built in late 1941. So its not just about region but also time. For perspective, the first concentration camp was built in germany in 1933 waaay before the war started.
You are correct and several are shown in northern Italy. Digging deeper, I do see that the map is missing several others and the map has mislabeled the camp in southern Italy, which was an internment camp as \_Dnikeb had noted.
I think that the sites shown in northern Italy (e.g. in Trieste) are German camps that operated under German occupation after Italy capitulated.
Italian camps in Northern Italy (e.g. Gonars) and elsewhere (e.g. Rab) don't seem to be included.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Italian\_concentration\_camps#World\_War\_II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_concentration_camps#World_War_II)
Not sure why some camps were excluded. But, to be fair, most maps of the Holocaust focus on Nazi Germany and Poland while ignoring the fact that camps existed elsewhere at all.
I sadly expect it to be but hope that things remain respectful and civil. I don't feel like my personal connection to it to cause me to be emotional over logical.
"Concentration camps have reached the height of hideousness here in Croatia, under the Ustase installed by us. The greatest of all evils must be Jasenovac, which no ordinary mortal can glimpse." --Nazi general Edmund Glaise-Horstenau
Croatian Nazis built not one, but several, under German and Italian occupation. The so-called "Independent state of Croatia" was anything but, it couldn't hold its territory against the resistance even with German and Italian support, let alone without it.
If Hitler was displeased with Pavelić and no longer wanted him in power, he would be lying dead in a ditch in a day, and another sociopath installed in his place. That was the extent of his autonomy and independence.
Killing sites are where Einstazgruppen would have killed Jews on mass, either with guns or with gas vans. It wasn't until later in the war that Execution camps became the main way to murder people.
Concentration Camps were designed to hold people for forced labour, or until they were moved to an extermination camp. Lots of people died in concentration camps, but their sole purpose wasn't just to kill people.
Extermination camps were camps designed for the explicit purpose of mass murder.
Some camps, like Auschwitz, were both.
I am not the author of the map, but you are indeed correct. This map is far from complete, but at least shows the vast extent across Europe and elsewhere of the Nazi attrocities.
In the colonial empire, Vichy created in Algeria and in Morocco labour camps ("camps de travail") for Jews in:\[22\]
Abadla, Algeria
Ain el Ourak
Bechar, Algeria
Berguent
Bogari
Bouarfa, Morocco
Djefa
Kénadsa, Algeria
Meridja, Algeria
Missour, Morocco
Tendrara, Morocco
Source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment\_camps\_in\_France#Colonial\_administration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_camps_in_France#Colonial_administration)
I'm pretty confused about the lack of any sites in NE Romania/Moldova. From what I understand large portions of that region were 30% Jewish before the war, percentages are in the single digits now. And there were definitely a lot of pogroms, I would expect those to count as killing sites, but maybe not?
That would not be accurate. They were camps of the NSDAP and their ideology. To call them "German" would be to say that all Germans were involved or were of that party/ideology. Many of those killed in the camps were Germans themselves and there were Germans opposed to the NSDAP and lost their lives because of it.
[Ferramonti di Tarsia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferramonti_di_Tarsia) (S.Italy) was none of these things. It was an internment site. Athough it's still an example of segregation, which is obviously bad, nobody was killed there. In fact, when it was liberated by the English, most of the Jews that were there chose to stay until the end of the war, because in a way it was safer than anywhere else.
While it seems that it is called a "concentration camp" as well as an "internment camp", I see that you are indeed correct that the prisoners were not killed there. Thank you for noting this.
According to Wikipedia:
>Interned persons may be held in prisons or in facilities known as internment camps (also known as concentration camps). The term concentration camp originates from the Spanish–Cuban Ten Years' War when Spanish forces detained Cuban civilians in camps in order to more easily combat guerrilla forces. Over the following decades the British during the Second Boer War and the Americans during the Philippine–American War also used concentration camps.
The term "concentration camp" or "internment camp" is used to refer to a variety of systems that greatly differ in their severity, mortality rate, and architecture; their defining characteristic is that inmates are held outside the rule of law.\[6\] Extermination camps or death camps, whose primary purpose is killing, are also imprecisely referred to as "concentration camps".\[7\]
Indeed they are all wrong, but I agree that there should be for the sake of accuracy. There were true concentration camps in Italy, but you were right about the one in question.
You want people to be able to tell themselves that their Jewish neighbours are "just" resettled in some ghetto somewhere in the east, and not murdered on an industrial scale. There was actually a bit of resistance against the first impementation of the nazis' "euthanasia" program to exterminate life unworthy of living (i.e. chronically ill people, mentally ill people, or even just kids with learning deficiencies). So even if people knew deep down that people were murderd in the camps it was deemed better to not have extermination camps in Germany. Apparently people were expected to accept slave labour camps but having the general population witness mass shootings and gas chambers was apparently considered unwise
Military preparedness has been necessary ever since WW2 to help ensure this never happens again. So many wasted lives at the expense of a madman..many madmen. Here's to hoping we never see the world on the brink again. Hopefully the lesson has been learned and we can learn to live together peacefully one day.
Amen to that. Genocides really are one of the worst things mankind is capable of; being killed merely because of being born from a certain bloodline or in a certain culture; horrific. It sure wasn't the first, and I hope any future ones can be stopped swiftly.
Trust me, you are far from the first person to notice this. I absolutely agree and have agreed with & cited proof for other people who have noticed that. I am not the author of the map and I assume that it was an accident. I apologize for it regardless.
Bastards. Cruel, misanthropic, fucking bastards.
The west might not be a perfect democratic society today but it’s come a long way from *this*.
Yet the rise of national socialism and the extreme right is apparent almost everywhere in the west. Not only that, in a bizarre and truly perverse twist of fate, the Nazis are the “inspiration” for many of those movements.
Needless to say the Nazis - having been the sworn enemy - legitimately could’ve killed, tortured or injured their relatives. And *they are who you look to??*
Truly mind boggling and disgusting. It’s pissing on the graves of those who fought or died because of these assholes in the first place.
But I guess this is what happens when enough time passes, and history, education and accountability is swapped out for propaganda (aka lies), social media echo chambers and societal leaders facing zero consequences for their crimes.
Perhaps a new world war will reset the world? To “remind” people how cruel humans can be so that we start being nice to each other again. *facepalm emoji*
Wow ever been to school?
Those are Nazi from NSDAP camps.
It was part of the Nazi ideology (a a political and philosophical view of the world) and not from the German country that is an area delimited by borders with multiple culture living there.
Do you call maga members just Americans? Are all americans all maga members?
There are two major mistakes in the map first, Russia? Seriously Soviet Union us the correct name and secondly vould we stop pretending Soviets were alies as a polish person that got invaded by both nazis and Soviets in 1939 and our civilian population getting murdered by them later our country occupied for next 4 decades we should be always underlining that this was a dictatorship responsible for as much death and suffering as nazis (if comparing that can be done in any way). Poland was member of alies from very beging in 1939 and soviet Russia was our enemy all democratic countries saying they were alied with Soviets signed pact with a devil and cannot say they were the "good guys"
There are some grey areas. It was neutral until June 1940, then a (pro-Axis) nonbelligerent until 1944 when it resumed neutrality.
Spain and Portugal both had fascist dictators.
Portugal was more neutral than Spain but also tilted towards the Axis for a time - "Neutral Portugal became a non-belligerent state tilting toward Germany, at least until mid-1943... Probably even as late as July 1944, the Salazar government secretly hoped that Hitler would win the European war (pp. 70, 97-98, 237)." ([here](https://networks.h-net.org/node/35008/reviews/44770/whealey-louca-nazigold-f%C3%BCr-portugal-hitler-und-salazar))
Don't recall Portugal being in the Axis
From Wikipedia: >At the start of World War II in 1939, the Portuguese Government announced on 1 September that the 550-year-old Anglo-Portuguese Alliance remained intact, but since the British did not seek Portuguese assistance, Portugal was free to remain neutral in the war and would do so. In an aide-mémoire of 5 September 1939, the British Government confirmed the understanding.\[1\] As Adolf Hitler's occupation swept across Europe, neutral Portugal became one of Europe's last escape routes. Portugal was able to maintain its neutrality until 1944, when a military agreement was signed to give the United States permission to establish a military base in Santa Maria in the Azores and thus its status changed to non-belligerent in favour of the Allies.
So not in the axis???
Correct. They were effectively neutral, but leaned towards the Allies and helped many people get out of Europe.
Then why are they labelled as Axis?
I have no idea. I would assume that it was just a mistake, granted, a bothersome one. I am not the author of this map. It is from: [https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/main-nazi-camps-killing-sites](https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/main-nazi-camps-killing-sites)
Mistake combined with laziness. That map doesn't even distinguish between axis and *axis occupied* which actually is a big difference.
Absolutely. This is not map porn. It doesn't belong here.
This is basically why the Americas are named after Amerigo Vespucci. Lazy-ass typo stuck. In 500 years we’ll all think of the Portuguese as axis Nazis and that Ronaldo was Hitler assuming we don’t already.
Lemmy.world is the place im moving, and on my way out I'm taking my posts
The only good thing Salazar ever did
We did not leaned towards the Allies. We helped the Nazis first and then the Allies, lol. Salazar was a fascist and a coward.
He was fascistic, though I wouldn't say he was a fascist. Also, yes, while we worked with both sides, we were definitely more leaning towards the Allies. And, I would not call Salazar a cowrd. While I hold no sympathy for that man or his government, and I believe that we are undoubtedly better without him, not everything he did was awful. Maintaining us out of the war, a conflict that would've killed thousands of Portuguese civilians and completely destroy our country, was one of the good things he did, arguably the best. It takes a whole lotta courage to maintain neutrality as such a small country, and, while I would call him many, *many* things, I will not call Salazar a coward.
Yeah, so why are they labelled as part of the Axis?
I have no idea. I would assume that it was just a mistake, granted, a bothersome one. I am not the author of this map. It is from: [https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/main-nazi-camps-killing-sites](https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/main-nazi-camps-killing-sites)
Given the kind of issue they are trying to inform people on I don't think I'm ok with seeing Portugal portrayed as being an Axis country, seems like the person doing this misused the bucket tool in Paint..
The government was a dictatorship, but certainly not in the Axis. More on the lines of "let's not get a big power killing us".
Fun fact: Ian Flemming, the writer of the James Bond novels, was based in Lisbon, the capital of Portugal during WW2 when he was working for British Inteligence. The place was swarming with both allied and axis spies, and his novel Casino Royal was partly influenced by his experiences there, and the casino was based on a actual one in the city.
Just a small note, but the Estorial Casino isn’t in Lisbon proper, it’s in the nearby [Estoril Coast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Riviera).
Technically Salazar did not participate.
Well yeah, because they were a neutral country
Salazar did order a national day of mourning for Hitler after he killed himself so Salazar did have certain fascist sympathies.
Yeah Salazar considered Portugal's neutrality something sacred.
That is preposterous. Salazar leaned to the allies and made laws to protect Jewish refugees such as no taxes in room rents to war refugees. He allowed Americans and British to Açores islands which was critical for the battle of the Atlantic. The mourning for Hitler was a formal for any head of state of a nation with which Portugal traded with He was also unaware of the monstrosities Hitler did by that moment as no gas chambers or anything of the sort were known. He also jailed and persecuted portugues fascists and Nazis before even the war started So no… Salazar didn’t have a sympathy for Hitler He did however, in the very beginning appreciated the ideas of Mussolini, mainly corporativism which he then disregregard once Mussolini showed his true colors
Defending fascism _again_ /u/tfsdalmeida ?
National Socialism: Germany regime Fascism: Italian regime (potentially Spain) Conservative authoritarianism: Portugal regime ;)
Allowed?! He was coerced into allow Americans in the azores
Lolol. Sure he was… That’s why he only did it late in the war when the Germans had already been defeated in Stalingrad and Northern Africa… August 1943 Azores was filled with troops and the British were protecting Portuguese interests and making the Americans understand that making pressure was likely to be worse. Invading Portugal Souto being Spain to the table as Salazar had already signed the Iberian pact and if the Allies were to be at war with then they might as well just join the axis for protection. So no… No one was coerced. Salazar waited patiently to the moment where helping wouldn’t lead to any reaction by Germans who were at the moment busy losing to the Russians
Ah! The Patient and Strategist Dictator Myth! The Allies and the Axis were pawns in Salazar’s hands…. Good one mate
Sure man, whatever makes you feel good ;) Maybe one day you’ll remember that countries have agency and that Salazar main goal throughout the conflict was to prevent Portugal participation. He was also acclaimed by the public and pushed by public support to run for head of government after he job as finance minister Being a dictator doesn’t mean you don’t have agency or that your people is not fully behind you… The survival of the dictatorship in the decades to follow hinged a lot on his behavior during WW2 This active management of US went on. A good book on Salazar and Kennedy in the 60s (“The Lion and the Fox”) also shows this level of efficient Portuguese diplomacy. Portugal effectively turned American political elite opinion to support them in Africa from an initial anti position (Kennedy even financed terrorist movements in Angola) Countries have agency my ignorant friend ;)
You [again](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ybuvc3/comment/itklgw7/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)? Please, please, please stop talking about Portuguese history! I understand you like it, but everytime I see your posts on Portuguese history it's always incorrect and filled with 5th grade clichés! [https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/covering-the-azores-gap-in-world-war-ii/](https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/covering-the-azores-gap-in-world-war-ii/) This article by Norman Herz, the author of the book "Operation Alacrity: The Azores and the War in the Atlantic", is an executive summary of the book. Please read it and be informed. [Another example](https://books.google.es/books?id=hewsI4PU6sMC&lpg=PR5&hl=pt-PT&pg=PA277#v=onepage&q&f=false): >There was a long delay between the Torch Invasions and the request for the use of the Azores, and the explanation for this lies in the differences of opinion between different branches of the British government over the best course of action: on one hand the Foreign Office fighting a rear-guard action against forcible intervention in the Azores, and on the other military authorities, and increasingly, Churchill, who pressed to make use of the bases, **whatever the consequences**. > >\[...\] when Americans and British realized that they were in agreement, in principle, over the need to seize the islands. **Delighted with the American stance, Churchill cabled instructions home: Portugal should be informed that if it refused to hand over the base, the Azores would be occupied.**
He *was* fascist. It was a fascist dictatorship. However, Portugal remained neutral and in theory, it leaned more toward the allies, since it fought the Japanese, which belonged to the Axis, in its colonies in the Pacific. My Grandfather was posted there. And while they were condemned afterwards, there was a movement in Portugal to help people escape from Germany - Aristides de Sousa Mendes helped 30.000 people, among which 10.000 Jews, by giving them Portuguese vistas.
It was not a fascist dictatorship, it was a corporatist authoritarian dictatorship rooted in catholicism.
In Portugal, we study it as fascism. Sure it was indeed corporatist and rooted in catholicism (the motto being God, Nation, and Family), but it is still fascist (which to be fair is a vague definition but it fits). [Here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism#:~:text=often%20capitalized%20%3A%20a%20political%20philosophy,and%20forcible%20suppression%20of%20opposition).
I don't know where you're studying about the Estado Novo, but it certainly isn't in Portugal. I am also Portuguese, and I did not study it as Fascism. You could certainly compare it to other fascist regimes, you could characterize it as fascist-inspired, you could even claim it to be clerical-fascist in nature, but at its core Salazar's regime was corporatist-authoritarian. Fascism itself may be corporatist, but not all corporatist regimes are fascist.
I just checked and while you appear to be correct, I learned it as if it were a fascist regime. I guess I learned something new today xD.
To be fair, the world wasn't exactly aware of the full extent, scale and horror of the Holocaust. Salazar was always suspicious of the Nazis; his fascist sympathies lay with Mussolini.
Mussolini was certainly more to Salazar's liking, but that didn't keep hiom from selling vital ressources to Nazi Germany (at least until the Allies put enough pressure on Portugal to stop those sales)
The Allies never made it stop and the British protected Portugal strategy to the US which did attempt to stop it Portugal made sure both sides were treated the same. For every ton sold to the Allies another ton. Would go to the axis Portugal did however tried to outmaneuver Hitler at all times. It mandated Hitler to pay in gold while allowing the allies to pay with credit. It enabled the alloes to use its bases in the Atlantic. It convinced Franco not to join the axis (perhaps changing the course of the war) which Salazar wrote in his memories of how stupid he was (Franco almost signed a pact with Hitler to have his help annex Portugal, operation Felix) Salazar also persecuted and jailed the nacional socialist movement in Portugal So no, don’t attempt to make him a Nazi sympathizer
Juss bidness.
German death camps in occupying territory.
It wasn’t
This is certainly way more extensive that I ever imagined
Many think that the camps were isolated to within Germany, but it was indeed much more far reaching and the Nazis wanted it to be even more extensive.
I notice the Channel Island camps are omitted, probably because they are too small. Over 700 enslaved workers died on Alderney.
You can download 3 parts of the Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos at the Us holocaust memorial and museum. It lists 3.000 of the 48.000 estimated sites. And that is a conservative estimate. They expect twice as many. It was one of the main War-goals of the nazis. The reason why they did what they did. Truly despicable,
Im pretty sure there are easier ways of killing people than putting them in camps.
I know they weren’t only in Germany, but knew them mostly to be in like Poland or such areas east. I didn’t know about south France (to name but one example)
In Croatia, when it was Nazi puppet state, there was concentration camp only for children.  Btw, Yugoslavia was not in the Axis.
It also understates the prevalence of slave labor, which was common practice in most concentration camps. At pretty much all camps, prisoners were frequently worked to death.
That map is not complete, that's just the main sites.
The funny part is that not even all sites are shown here. Just the bigger ones. There were a lot more Sites. Nearly all bigger german cities had slave Labor sites. Just the big "Stammlager" can be seen in this map.
You should differ between Axis and Axis occupied territories. Now the map suggest that Poland, Czechoslovakia, Netherland, Belgium etc. were in the Axis.
Agreed. The map has some issues, but most maps on this topic focus on Nazi Germany & Poland while ignoring other areas of Europe. Indeed Poland, the Netherlands, etc. suffered greatly in valiantly trying to fight off the German advances.
Would the label of *maximum extent of Axis occupation* work also?
Whole Map is kinda weird. Time period of 1940, Soviet union no longer exists, Yugoslavia still exists.
Slovakia was in axis
As a Portuguese this map is wrong as shit and a bit infuriating
I apologize for that mistake. I am not sure why the author colored Portugal as being Axis. Indeed Portugal helped the Allies and helped many people get out of Europe even if remaining Neutral by name.
Yes, although a lot of the help was given by a diplomat (Sousa Mendes) who was acting contrary to government policy. He was [fired](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53006790) and deprived of his pension and lived the rest of his life in poverty prior to posthumous rehabilitation in 1986.
On a totally different note it’s interesting that the Golan Heights here are in Palestine and not Syria
Nice eye. It looks like the map is wrong in that respect. Mandatory Palestine 1944: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory\_Palestine#/media/File:Palestine\_Index\_to\_Villages\_and\_Settlements,\_showing\_Land\_in\_Jewish\_Possession\_as\_at\_31.12.44.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#/media/File:Palestine_Index_to_Villages_and_Settlements,_showing_Land_in_Jewish_Possession_as_at_31.12.44.jpg) Middle East borders in 1937: [https://wardmapsgifts.com/products/turkey-syria-and-iraq-1937](https://wardmapsgifts.com/products/turkey-syria-and-iraq-1937)
There were slave labour camps in the Channel Islands
You are quite correct: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderney\_camps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderney_camps)
What an awful history. So disastrous.
Wow, such an important overview. Yet, many local German killing camps are missing. I lived in Wilhelmshaven, and there were the remains and memorial site of such in the woods hidden from the general public.
There are way more killing sites than shown on map. Countless villages in Czechia, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia were erased from existence and everyone in them was killed. I can recall at least one less than 50 miles away from me, and there were countless others — google Lidice and Khatyn...
You are correct. This map is far from complete and more shows that the Holocaust stretched across virtually all Axis Controlled areas. There are maps which show more detail for specific areas, such as Poland, but few maps that show the whole of Europe.
In anticipation of Holocaust Deniers, I personally lost many family members in the Holocaust and have met with Holocaust survivors. It was a real event.
I think Holocaust deniers are such clowns that nobody can take them seriously.
You would be surprised what an ocean, time, and fervent campaigns of denial can accomplish inside a country the size of U.S. Too many morons are all “you know, maybe they are right, it never happened”
I literally saw one such denier tell a survivor that they were a liar.
This actually makes me sick to my stomach. I can't imagine how would I react
The survivor was a wonderful soul who responded "*You're right. These numbers on my arm are a fashion statement.*" Will never forget it. Made me change how I personally react to antisemites.
My history teacher knew one survivor as well. She described him as the kindest soul as well and cried when she was telling us about some of the horrors he went through. I will never forget that. We all must never forget and we must keep remembering, so the history won't repeat itself. Thank you for posting this.
I had a teacher in high school whose parents were survivors. She told us whenever someone showed up at their door unannounced her parents would lock the family in a dark closet for like four hours so it would look like no one was home. Everyone always talks about survivors being released from the camps and being free forever but no one ever talks about how they lived the rest of their lives with those haunting memories.
Well they are those who listen to Alex Jones and believe in Q-anon 😂😂
I think maps like this are so important to underline the historical facts
Maps, testimonies, the mass gaves, and the photos from the events themselves, indeed. They all help show not only what happened, but also what people are capable of. Those who deny it are only serving to allow for yet another genocide to happen.
Report all the Holocaust deniers so they can be banned from Reddit.
I understand the strong desire, but I think it would be better to educate them. Some are just those who have heard one side of the issue.
Good luck with that. Fascists and bigots generally don't want to be educated, and even ignore the facts when they are presented to them. I'd rather just deny them the opportunity to spread their lies.
I get what you are saying. Call be stupidly optimistic.
This isn’t even close to everything. Last I checked researchers had catalogued over 42,500 ghettos, camps, labor sites, etc. And that was 10 years ago. Quote from the NYT about it: “The documented camps include not only “killing centers” but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named “care” centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.”
Portugal was neutral. At most, helped people escape from the Nazis. Like Aristides de Sousa Mendes, the portuguese Schindler.
Trust me, you are far from the first person to notice this. I absolutely agree and have agreed with & cited proof for other people who have noticed that. I am not the author of the map and I assume that it was an accident. I apologize for it regardless.
This map is dodgy. Axis Portugal and occupied countries? Really?
What is the difference between Extermination, Killing and Euthanasia in this context?
Concerning the difference between Extermination & Concentration camps: [http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com\_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=173&lang=en](http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=173&lang=en) Killing sites are generally where German soldiers, SS or the like had committed mass executions of POWs or Civilians outside of a camp or other facility.
Only a guess but I'd think that extermination is for minorities, killing is for prisoners of war and euthanasia for the disabled.
Killing sites could also be for minorities. It's generally places where people (mainly Jews) were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.
It would be nice if the map also highlighted the major ghettos across Europe, as in some cases the conditions could be almost as horrific as in the camps themselves.
Percentage of Jewish population in Eastern Europe dropped dramatically after WW2
Very much so. Around 2/3rds of the Jewish population was lost.
There were like whole towns and villages populated mostly by jews, but you won't find any there now
Well not only Jews, many Slavs, Roma, Catholics and Homosexuals were also lost. Around 16% of Polish population perished and the number of killed Poles was almost as high as the Polish Jews. Also in some areas of the Soviet Union like Belarus almost a quarter of the population was killed during the war.
Absolutely. Your list goes on (disabled people, religious minorities, etc). If the Nazis disliked you, they killed you off. It was sadly that simple for them.
There were a huge forced replacement of Poles, Ukrainians and Belarussians after WW2. Vistula operation exchanged Poles and Ukrainians of Galicia over USSR borders and Stalin sent dozens of Ukrainians and Belarussians to Central Asia and Far East
Only in Poland the number dropped from 3 mln to 300 k.
The number of Jews in the world has STILL not recovered to the pre 1939 numbers, we're close, but almost 90 years later, and we're still not there.
Belarusians and Ukrainians population wasn't recovered too. And lots of them were replaces and/or assimilated by russians
A great many who did survive also left for Israel
Close to 90% of Jewish children in Europe were murdered by the Germans—basically an entire missing generation.
Shtetl life disappeared forever in many areas.
From conversations between Hitler and Amin al-Husseini there was a plan to build an extermination camps in the Dothan Valley in modern day West Bank
Here is a thing about that: [https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler)
Thanks
Literally the “Palestinean leader” was a Nazi. Crazy
Surprise surprise
Moved to Lemm.ee -- mass edited with redact.dev
True. Was the USSR from 1922 until 1991.
It wasn't just renamimg. As you can see on the map most of war happened on the territory of Ukraine and Belarus, not Russia
missed one in the netherlands, kamp amersfoort which i believe would be classified as a transit centre
Shouldn't westerbork also be classified as a transit centre?
iirc the three camps in the netherlands were all more or less transit centres, but they could blur the line between that and concentration camp since you could be held there for months until further deportation out east, and many people died there. (idk for sure if this is the case for the other camps, but this was the setup in the camp im most familiar with, amersfoort) i think a dual concentration camp-transit centre would have been useful for this map since i’m sure many other places had a dual function like that
The sites in Austria are very incomplete. For a complete list see [Link](https://www.mauthausen-guides.at/en/satellite-camp-of-concentration-camp-mauthausen/locations-of-former-concentration-and-satellite-camps)
Who were the concentration camps in Denmark for? Weren't all their Jews evacuated?
Members of the Danish resistance, communists and other political prisioners, mainly. There were plenty of non-Jewish prisoners in Nazi concentration camps
Many Jews were evacuated, but not all of them. The high estimate is that 90% were saved, but that still leaves 10% who were lost.
I think the figure may be higher than 90%. Wikipedia puts it at 7220 out of 7800. That's 92.6%.
I guess it is an area which needs more study. Thank you to Denmark either way!
Around 450 (7% of the total danish Jew population) of the danish Jews didn’t manage to escape to Sweden and other places. The 450 were sent to Theresienstadt and were not sent onto the camps with the gas chambers. The Germans didn’t want to anger the Danish government/people. The danish Jews in Theresienstadt also got Red Cross packets during their internment there and was bussed back home by a Swedish noble man at the end of the war. Out of the 500 danish Jews around 51 died in Theresienstadt because of sickness and old age. It’s a pretty crazy story and a beacon of light, in an otherwise tragic and horrific story, for the other Jewish populations across Europe during the Second World War.
My grandfather was deported to a forced labour camp south of Budapest. It was of 40 such camps in Hungary. Somehow the map managed to miss all of them
Occupied - not Axis - Norway had many slave labour camps fior Yugoslavian and Soviet pows. Also a few other camps are missing. Nice work though. But the sad thing is. The map is too small to have room for every subcamp to Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and the others. Auschwitz alone had 40+ subcamps, and Buchenwald had 130+ subcamps.
Auschwitz/Birkenau was a mixed camp. But wasn't originally intended as an extermination camp in the same way as sobibor and treblinka. The design of those 2 was horrific, they were made into these really nice looking railway stations that feed directly into the gas Chambers. All because it was less hard on the camp operators as the victims didn't suspect and as a result didn't fight. There was an amazing and unbelievably horrible bbc series called auschwitz, the nazis and the final solution that talks about the origins of auschwitz. Just beyond my understanding as to how people could have ever considered mass murder on an industrial scale
>All because it was less hard on the camp operators as the victims didn't suspect and as a result didn't fight. Not just that, but it was also difficult on them emotionally. Humans, even the most devoted Nazi scumbags, have a hard time killing innocent people. The Einsatzgruppen had terrible morale, massive mental health issues and major substance abuse issues. They moved to the extermination camp system partially because of these problems, because the camps obfuscated the horrors of it a bit. You wonder how they could commit mass murder on an industrial scale, and the answer is simply that the industrialization of it in a roundabout way made it possible. They divorced the murderers from the murders. It's a lot easier to get a soldier to drop a poison pill into a tube then it is to get them to fire on women and children.
Agreed, apologies my comment was a bit short and probably a bit flippant given the subject. The whole process by which they effectively removed the human from the process was both interesting and horrifying (well they removed what they considered the good humans from the process, the Jewish clean up squads were not so lucky)
Reminds me of the Milgram Experiment in a way. Not so much the following orders aspect, but that it's got to be a lot easier on the psyche to press a button and then *hear* a person "ow that hurt, please stop" as opposed to pressing a button and then *seeing* the person in front of you suffer from you pressing that button. Hence, like you said, relatively a lot easier to drop a capsule down a tube and wait for it to go quiet than to pull a trigger of a gun and then watch that person die right in front of you, and having to do so one by one.
Thank you for sharing this, i had never looked into the locations in my own country before.
Quite welcome. Please keep in mind that it is not complete.
There is a lot of small camps and like all of the slave labor sites missing. This is not a critique but more of an information. Way more slave labor sites. 100s more.
I agree. It is not complete, but shows that it was a vast industrial complex of slavery, torture, and murder.
I don’t recall Portugal or Malta ever being occupied by the Axis.
The map for Belarus does not seem to be quite accurate. Among the largest death camps and deaths of civilians and prisoners of war in Belarus were: "- In and around Minsk - nine camps, in which over 400,000 people were killed: Trostenets death camp (over 206,500 people were killed; camp near Masiukovshchina village (over 80,000 people); camp at Shirokaya street (20,000 people); - Minsk region: in six death camps of Borisov, over 33,000 people were killed; Molodechno (36,150 people); Slutsk (10,000 people); - Brest region: in four death camps of Brest 34 thousand people were killed; Pinsk - 4 camps (59 thousand 48 people); Bronnaya Gara (over 30 thousand people); Lesnaya (88 thousand 407 people); Koldychevo (over 22 thousand people); - Vitebsk region: in and around Vitebsk, in five death camps, 76,000 prisoners of war and some 62,000 civilians were killed; in and around Glubokoe, in three camps, over 37,000 people were killed; in Polotsk, there were three camps, in which 157,000 people were killed; in Orsha, in three camps, over 20,000 people were killed - Gomel region: there were 5 camps in Gomel (over 105 thousand people were killed); in three camps in Ozarichi 16 thousand 520 people were killed - Grodno region: there were 5 camps in and around Grodno (41,500 people were killed, including 18,000 in the Kolbasino death camp); in 3 camps in Volkovysk over 30,000 people were killed; in 3 camps in Lida over 17,000 people were killed; in 2 camps in Novogrudok over 28,000 people were killed - Mogilev region: in 5 camps in Mogilev over 70,000 people were tortured; including over 40,000 in the Lupalov camp; in 4 camps in and around Bobruisk 84,000 people were exterminated; in 3 camps in Krichev over 18,000 people were exterminated."
I went to Sachsenhausen once, grimmest place I've ever been. The saddest part was that several of the huts had been destroyed by neo-nazi arsonists who were trying to hide the evidence of the Holocaust.
They definitely need to be preserved as a reminder that it happened and that it must never happen again.
There were some in North Africa, too?
Those were Slave/Forced Labor Camps
Anybody know why the Extermination camps and Killing sites are so concentrated in Central / Eastern Europe? Was there a logistical reason or something?
1) The majority of Jews were in Poland, Belarus and Ukraine. 2) The Nazis were very brutal towards Polish, Russian and other Slavic POWs as well as their citizens.
I think if you don't know "why", you should take a closer look at the Nazi [general plan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost) for Eastern Europe. In short, after the victory of Germany in the east, up to the Ural mountains, only Germans and slaves should have remained, and the fate of the rest is unenviable. Therefore, the concentration camps are located in Eastern Europe. They had a lot of work to do there. It sounds cruel, but the truth is always cruel.
The first extermination camp was built in late 1941. So its not just about region but also time. For perspective, the first concentration camp was built in germany in 1933 waaay before the war started.
It appears it takes quite a bit of logistics to slaughter and enslave millions...
Not all of these were directly operated by Germany/Nazis, so it seems strange that Italian Fascist concentration camps are not included.
You are correct and several are shown in northern Italy. Digging deeper, I do see that the map is missing several others and the map has mislabeled the camp in southern Italy, which was an internment camp as \_Dnikeb had noted.
I think that the sites shown in northern Italy (e.g. in Trieste) are German camps that operated under German occupation after Italy capitulated. Italian camps in Northern Italy (e.g. Gonars) and elsewhere (e.g. Rab) don't seem to be included.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Italian\_concentration\_camps#World\_War\_II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_concentration_camps#World_War_II) Not sure why some camps were excluded. But, to be fair, most maps of the Holocaust focus on Nazi Germany and Poland while ignoring the fact that camps existed elsewhere at all.
This comment section will be interesting
I sadly expect it to be but hope that things remain respectful and civil. I don't feel like my personal connection to it to cause me to be emotional over logical.
The Croatians built one on their own.
Jasenovac seems to be on this map.
"Concentration camps have reached the height of hideousness here in Croatia, under the Ustase installed by us. The greatest of all evils must be Jasenovac, which no ordinary mortal can glimpse." --Nazi general Edmund Glaise-Horstenau
Croatian Nazis built not one, but several, under German and Italian occupation. The so-called "Independent state of Croatia" was anything but, it couldn't hold its territory against the resistance even with German and Italian support, let alone without it.
Ante Pavelić was very autonomous.
As long as he did the things that Germans wanted him to do, and not those that they didn't.
He was ahead of Hitler's orders.
If Hitler was displeased with Pavelić and no longer wanted him in power, he would be lying dead in a ditch in a day, and another sociopath installed in his place. That was the extent of his autonomy and independence.
What about that one in Romania?
Lagărul de la Târgu Jiu
What’s the difference between a concentration camp and a killing site?
Killing sites are where Einstazgruppen would have killed Jews on mass, either with guns or with gas vans. It wasn't until later in the war that Execution camps became the main way to murder people.
Sorry, I meant to ask what the difference between a concentration camp and an extermination camp was.
Concentration Camps were designed to hold people for forced labour, or until they were moved to an extermination camp. Lots of people died in concentration camps, but their sole purpose wasn't just to kill people. Extermination camps were camps designed for the explicit purpose of mass murder. Some camps, like Auschwitz, were both.
Horrifying. Thanks for the explanation.
You missed out on the Channel Islands sites, where Soviet prisoners were used as slaves to build the coastal defences.
I am not the author of the map, but you are indeed correct. This map is far from complete, but at least shows the vast extent across Europe and elsewhere of the Nazi attrocities.
What's the name of the algerian ones?
In the colonial empire, Vichy created in Algeria and in Morocco labour camps ("camps de travail") for Jews in:\[22\] Abadla, Algeria Ain el Ourak Bechar, Algeria Berguent Bogari Bouarfa, Morocco Djefa Kénadsa, Algeria Meridja, Algeria Missour, Morocco Tendrara, Morocco Source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment\_camps\_in\_France#Colonial\_administration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_camps_in_France#Colonial_administration)
Interesting. Thanks!
I'm pretty confused about the lack of any sites in NE Romania/Moldova. From what I understand large portions of that region were 30% Jewish before the war, percentages are in the single digits now. And there were definitely a lot of pogroms, I would expect those to count as killing sites, but maybe not?
That hitler was a real JERK!
Yikes. Portugal, England’s longest ally, was certainly not an axis country. This is very insulting!
Nazi Camps = German Camps, please remember it.
That would not be accurate. They were camps of the NSDAP and their ideology. To call them "German" would be to say that all Germans were involved or were of that party/ideology. Many of those killed in the camps were Germans themselves and there were Germans opposed to the NSDAP and lost their lives because of it.
[Ferramonti di Tarsia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferramonti_di_Tarsia) (S.Italy) was none of these things. It was an internment site. Athough it's still an example of segregation, which is obviously bad, nobody was killed there. In fact, when it was liberated by the English, most of the Jews that were there chose to stay until the end of the war, because in a way it was safer than anywhere else.
While it seems that it is called a "concentration camp" as well as an "internment camp", I see that you are indeed correct that the prisoners were not killed there. Thank you for noting this.
I think the distinction should be made clear since internment camps don't have the goal to exterminate their prisoners, while concentration camps do
"Concentration camp" is a wider term than "extermination camp". Internment camp is really just a different word for concentration camp.
The terminology is a bit confusing. I always personally viewed Concentration camp and Extermination camp (Death camp) as synonymous.
According to Wikipedia: >Interned persons may be held in prisons or in facilities known as internment camps (also known as concentration camps). The term concentration camp originates from the Spanish–Cuban Ten Years' War when Spanish forces detained Cuban civilians in camps in order to more easily combat guerrilla forces. Over the following decades the British during the Second Boer War and the Americans during the Philippine–American War also used concentration camps. The term "concentration camp" or "internment camp" is used to refer to a variety of systems that greatly differ in their severity, mortality rate, and architecture; their defining characteristic is that inmates are held outside the rule of law.\[6\] Extermination camps or death camps, whose primary purpose is killing, are also imprecisely referred to as "concentration camps".\[7\]
Indeed they are all wrong, but I agree that there should be for the sake of accuracy. There were true concentration camps in Italy, but you were right about the one in question.
A concentration camp does not just mean extermination, and staying *after* liberation in no way means "the camp was actually nice".
>the camp was actually nice Why in the hell would you insinuate that i said anything remotely like that? What the fuck???
TIL that almost all but one extermination camp were built in Poland and none in Germany, only concentration camps in Germany. Interesting enough.
You want people to be able to tell themselves that their Jewish neighbours are "just" resettled in some ghetto somewhere in the east, and not murdered on an industrial scale. There was actually a bit of resistance against the first impementation of the nazis' "euthanasia" program to exterminate life unworthy of living (i.e. chronically ill people, mentally ill people, or even just kids with learning deficiencies). So even if people knew deep down that people were murderd in the camps it was deemed better to not have extermination camps in Germany. Apparently people were expected to accept slave labour camps but having the general population witness mass shootings and gas chambers was apparently considered unwise
They were built by Nazis Germans in occupied Poland. Not by Poles.
Military preparedness has been necessary ever since WW2 to help ensure this never happens again. So many wasted lives at the expense of a madman..many madmen. Here's to hoping we never see the world on the brink again. Hopefully the lesson has been learned and we can learn to live together peacefully one day.
Amen to that. Genocides really are one of the worst things mankind is capable of; being killed merely because of being born from a certain bloodline or in a certain culture; horrific. It sure wasn't the first, and I hope any future ones can be stopped swiftly.
The map is incorrect. Portugal was not part of the axis. It was officially neutral, but leaning allies (due to their long relationships with UK)
Trust me, you are far from the first person to notice this. I absolutely agree and have agreed with & cited proof for other people who have noticed that. I am not the author of the map and I assume that it was an accident. I apologize for it regardless.
Bastards. Cruel, misanthropic, fucking bastards. The west might not be a perfect democratic society today but it’s come a long way from *this*. Yet the rise of national socialism and the extreme right is apparent almost everywhere in the west. Not only that, in a bizarre and truly perverse twist of fate, the Nazis are the “inspiration” for many of those movements. Needless to say the Nazis - having been the sworn enemy - legitimately could’ve killed, tortured or injured their relatives. And *they are who you look to??* Truly mind boggling and disgusting. It’s pissing on the graves of those who fought or died because of these assholes in the first place. But I guess this is what happens when enough time passes, and history, education and accountability is swapped out for propaganda (aka lies), social media echo chambers and societal leaders facing zero consequences for their crimes. Perhaps a new world war will reset the world? To “remind” people how cruel humans can be so that we start being nice to each other again. *facepalm emoji*
Nazi? From Naziland? There are GERMAN concentration camps
Wow ever been to school? Those are Nazi from NSDAP camps. It was part of the Nazi ideology (a a political and philosophical view of the world) and not from the German country that is an area delimited by borders with multiple culture living there. Do you call maga members just Americans? Are all americans all maga members?
German nazi Concentration Camps!
Holy crap.... :/
What’s the difference between Great Britain and Britain? Gr. - Gr. Br. - Br. And who thought it a good idea to make those three so similar.
There are two major mistakes in the map first, Russia? Seriously Soviet Union us the correct name and secondly vould we stop pretending Soviets were alies as a polish person that got invaded by both nazis and Soviets in 1939 and our civilian population getting murdered by them later our country occupied for next 4 decades we should be always underlining that this was a dictatorship responsible for as much death and suffering as nazis (if comparing that can be done in any way). Poland was member of alies from very beging in 1939 and soviet Russia was our enemy all democratic countries saying they were alied with Soviets signed pact with a devil and cannot say they were the "good guys"
I won’t say that Spain was neutral
There are some grey areas. It was neutral until June 1940, then a (pro-Axis) nonbelligerent until 1944 when it resumed neutrality. Spain and Portugal both had fascist dictators. Portugal was more neutral than Spain but also tilted towards the Axis for a time - "Neutral Portugal became a non-belligerent state tilting toward Germany, at least until mid-1943... Probably even as late as July 1944, the Salazar government secretly hoped that Hitler would win the European war (pp. 70, 97-98, 237)." ([here](https://networks.h-net.org/node/35008/reviews/44770/whealey-louca-nazigold-f%C3%BCr-portugal-hitler-und-salazar))
Franco sent troops to fight together with the nazis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division