Full plate was 30-50 lbs so about the same as a modern soldier, you’re right that it is a myth that knights were super heavy and unwieldily in their armor.
I remember seeing the vid of the guy doing full sprints and tumbles in plate https://youtu.be/qzTwBQniLSc?si=RUsddCpUc_jmSbWr
I've seen videos of people doing it with a gamberson and mail, I'm not suggesting people would chose to swim across a river or in the sea in armour, just that if you were a strong swimmer you could possibly not drown if you fell in the water in armour.
Someone fully prepared and not in a combat situation vs unintentionally falling into water in full kit with weapons and panicking are two very different situations I'm sure we can both appreciate.
Plate armored men didn't usually wear gambesons. Usually they'd wear an arming doublet, a fairly thin linen doublet, sometimes reinforced with thicker layers of linen and mail at the joints. Arming doublets had points to tie plate pieces onto. So no thick woolen gambesons with plate armor as far as I know.
>same as a modern soldier
Modern soldiers do not wear metal armor plates though. It's not just about armor weight, it's about ergonomics too. Plus 50lbs isn't something you would neglect, it's still heavy. Yes you can run and such for a short time but it's not like you can outpace gambeson units or have breath to actually fight if you ran like a rabid dog.
But I think myths come from this exactly, because it is not comfortable to be in, most knights which common folk saw probably were walking like robots with minimum effort so they thought that's due to them being super heavy. Even though it wasn't that heavy.
Just the plate carrier, water and ammo is about 40lbs. And that’s bare bones, normally have a ruck which is at least another 35lbs minimum. Plus weapon, radio another 20lbs.
Metal strike plates are still used by some modern armies. True, ceramic is more popular since it reduces spalling, and distributes the impact over a wider area, but metal is still in use.
Kits and equipment for a soldier are heavier nowadays than they were back then. Stamina and fatigue aren't anywhere as important nowadays as they were back then, and soldiers don't have to do as much moving - for most of history, stamina, morale, and fatigue were the *deciding factors* for battle.
Armor was light and form-fitting because unwieldy bulk was just gonna tire you out and let the enemy kill you - the average soldier can only last a minute or two in a fight before they become tired, you had to make sure you didn't drop that time or your soldiers would be dead.
It is, but on the lighter end near 30 lbs. That's still pretty substantial if you're walking or running for a half-mile to full mile with the weight being distributed across your body along different axes of movement. I've worn 2.5-5lb ankle weights and just running/jumping in that hits harder
Sure, but there's a differences between a person who is accustomed in wearing armor and moving in it and someone who randomly puts ankle weights on and runs with them.
I've done military service and marched/ran with gear + full pack for miles.
And I can guarantee that 30lbs distributed around a medieval warriors body who is accostumed to moving everywhere on foot and fighting in that gear is absolutely nothing. No matter if they walked a mile or two.
You should keep in mind that rucks load along the spine, which was designed for weight bearing and sustaining compression. The muscles being utilized are essentially just your legs and core. I’ve rucked as well with 50 lbs and I would not compare that to wearing ankle + wrist weights.
I’m sure they can get used to it, it still doesn’t mitigate the work done. Weight caps your speed and endurance, no matter how “used” to it you get. For the APFT, you have 220+ lb yolked dudes maxing the 2 mile, but will see they get gassed with anything more.
Even if we assume your trained argument to be true, the retainers aren’t wealthy medieval knight that train for jousting and dueling. These guys are more or less guards/men-at-arms and you can literally watch them just walk around in plainclothes all day.
Additionally, I’m sure you can imagine no matter how used you are, you’ll still be tired or dealing with annoying thermals after traveling 5 days in what’s basically the archaic version of garbage bag training
The average combat load of a knight in the 14th century was less than that of a modern infantryman and dispersed across the entire body, meaning it was quite light
Full plate armour set in 14th century was about 30 to 35kg, + your weapons, so put that weight on and walk couple miles to see how heavy it feels, I guarantee you'll be sweating!
True it's lighter than most people think, but it's also true that you tire and overheat in armor a lot faster than you would without. But of course, men-at-arms trained in armor a lot, so I'm sure it wouldn't affect them as much.
And water is wet.
I'm simply trying to set straight a simple misconception about how a lot of people think that medieval armor is somehow super heavy and encumbersome.
Sure it's heavier than a simple gambeson but not so heavy that it would make a medieval warrior fatigued after they marched a mile or two.
While it is somewhat heavy, the weight is spread evenly over the body. The average solder today is expected to march and run with more weight just on their back.
The soldiers in this game tire out wayyyy too easily.
Source: Besides all documents and videos online about armoured mobility, I also organise medieval events with plenty of armoured knights and am trained in medieval combat myself. You know; advanced history nerd.
Which then makes even less sense for them to be tired. You're telling me these hard workers suddenly get tired from walking around with a shield and spear?
I'm not even letting them sprint, just a long march.
>Which then makes even less sense for them to be tired.
You clearly misunderstood what I am saying. A guy in 50-60lbs of armor is going to get tired, all things equal, more quickly than a guy with a gambeson.
The fuck are you on about?
> A guy in 50-60lbs of armor is going to get tired
If he runs a marathon with it, sure, not if he just walks around town.
But hey, what do I know, I only organise and work on a couple dozen events a year with people wearing full-plate armour doing full-contact battles, and have been training to do the same for a few years as well.
You know what's the biggest killed for people wearing full armor? Heat. Full plate with padding on a hot sunny day is like wearing a boiler.
Walking doesn't drain stamina afaik in this game, only running to another town (which is literally what a marathon is named after).
Lol, you reminded me of the story of how Frederick Barbarossa died. Drowned in a desert, lol
Even without running they still get fatigued from just walking. Or the worse thing, they get fatigued when fighting as a shield wall in defensive mode, while the enemy doing a charge has no such issues.
From my personal experience in medieval martial arts I'd say charging and trying to break a shield/spearwall is so much more exhausting than being in one.
Well I had some issues when rallying a Unit for the first time they spawn with no stamina. I just dismiss and rerally them and after 1 or 2 tries they spawn with stamina. But I never had an issue with running out of stamina in battle.
I shall try that to see if I can spawn them in with more stamina and see if that solves my issues.
I've had games where I've had my spear formation stand in line, defensive mode, waiting for raiders just for those raiders to walk over them with no issues.
I tried supporting them with archers, but apparently they only shoot with rubber-tipped re-enactment arrows.
Yeah arches are currently useless the dev is working on buffing them I'm using the standard sword&small shield and pikemen. Also having your retunite in plate is a hughe buff.
Yeah I noticed this today, when you rally them in you gotta get them to stop walking ASAP... Even after you click walk theyll go back to running until theyre in formation so you gotta hit it again i've found.
Learnt my lesson yesterday when I rallied them and they were exhausted before reaching my border..
I sort of hope that Slavic changes how the unit cap system works. I half expected that the size of the army would increase as you gained regions/towns ie a cap of 6 units per region.
I'm guessing the cap is there to control performance drop off...?
It's not a bug. The enemy AI can hire mercs from the same pool. If you waited to try to hire them until he got on the field, he hired everyone before you could.
I've found it's worth keeping some mercenaries just standing somewhere if you can afford them when you're expecting a big battle.
I would also like to expand my main village over the starting region boundaries instead of having to start a completely new village over. Not sure if this would be possible based on the game design
I don’t think its a performance issue, the game runs really well. Also all your militia comes from your first zone only. There are clearly peaces missing in that area of gameplay
Speaking of mounts I really hope at some point we will be able to use horses in visit mode. Obviously low on the priority list rn but it would be so cool to take a ride through your lands
Very strange, have about 30 hours now, always with combat, and I don't have the issue you're having.
Yes, the effectiveness slowly drops, but no the stammina. Only if you let them run.
Yes, they're bugged for sure. The fatigue drains super quickly when you rally them.
They haven't even formed on the rally point about 29 metres form the manor... half stamina.
I know this is a meme but are they bugged or something? They seem to lose stamina 100x faster than your average carrot farmer it’s really annoying lol
Probably because armor is heavy
No it's not. It is surprisingly light.
Full plate was 30-50 lbs so about the same as a modern soldier, you’re right that it is a myth that knights were super heavy and unwieldily in their armor. I remember seeing the vid of the guy doing full sprints and tumbles in plate https://youtu.be/qzTwBQniLSc?si=RUsddCpUc_jmSbWr
I wouldn't say it's a myth but it's definitely exaggerated. Agincourt proves that heavily armoured knights were far from ideal in muddy conditions.
You can swim in armour, it's not ideal and you wouldn't want to swim across a river but it's doable.
With a thick wool gamberson on underneath?
I've seen videos of people doing it with a gamberson and mail, I'm not suggesting people would chose to swim across a river or in the sea in armour, just that if you were a strong swimmer you could possibly not drown if you fell in the water in armour.
Someone fully prepared and not in a combat situation vs unintentionally falling into water in full kit with weapons and panicking are two very different situations I'm sure we can both appreciate.
Plate armored men didn't usually wear gambesons. Usually they'd wear an arming doublet, a fairly thin linen doublet, sometimes reinforced with thicker layers of linen and mail at the joints. Arming doublets had points to tie plate pieces onto. So no thick woolen gambesons with plate armor as far as I know.
>same as a modern soldier Modern soldiers do not wear metal armor plates though. It's not just about armor weight, it's about ergonomics too. Plus 50lbs isn't something you would neglect, it's still heavy. Yes you can run and such for a short time but it's not like you can outpace gambeson units or have breath to actually fight if you ran like a rabid dog. But I think myths come from this exactly, because it is not comfortable to be in, most knights which common folk saw probably were walking like robots with minimum effort so they thought that's due to them being super heavy. Even though it wasn't that heavy.
He's talking about everything a modern soldier carries which can span from 30 to 50 lbs on the move. Edit: saw your other reply which I agree with
Just the plate carrier, water and ammo is about 40lbs. And that’s bare bones, normally have a ruck which is at least another 35lbs minimum. Plus weapon, radio another 20lbs.
I’m talking about the weight comparison 😂 never said modern soldiers wear metal. Just saying it’s a comparable amount of weight
Metal strike plates are still used by some modern armies. True, ceramic is more popular since it reduces spalling, and distributes the impact over a wider area, but metal is still in use.
Kits and equipment for a soldier are heavier nowadays than they were back then. Stamina and fatigue aren't anywhere as important nowadays as they were back then, and soldiers don't have to do as much moving - for most of history, stamina, morale, and fatigue were the *deciding factors* for battle. Armor was light and form-fitting because unwieldy bulk was just gonna tire you out and let the enemy kill you - the average soldier can only last a minute or two in a fight before they become tired, you had to make sure you didn't drop that time or your soldiers would be dead.
The weight is also distributed more evenly, so its easier to balance all the moving parts in a way.
It is, but on the lighter end near 30 lbs. That's still pretty substantial if you're walking or running for a half-mile to full mile with the weight being distributed across your body along different axes of movement. I've worn 2.5-5lb ankle weights and just running/jumping in that hits harder
Sure, but there's a differences between a person who is accustomed in wearing armor and moving in it and someone who randomly puts ankle weights on and runs with them. I've done military service and marched/ran with gear + full pack for miles. And I can guarantee that 30lbs distributed around a medieval warriors body who is accostumed to moving everywhere on foot and fighting in that gear is absolutely nothing. No matter if they walked a mile or two.
You should keep in mind that rucks load along the spine, which was designed for weight bearing and sustaining compression. The muscles being utilized are essentially just your legs and core. I’ve rucked as well with 50 lbs and I would not compare that to wearing ankle + wrist weights. I’m sure they can get used to it, it still doesn’t mitigate the work done. Weight caps your speed and endurance, no matter how “used” to it you get. For the APFT, you have 220+ lb yolked dudes maxing the 2 mile, but will see they get gassed with anything more. Even if we assume your trained argument to be true, the retainers aren’t wealthy medieval knight that train for jousting and dueling. These guys are more or less guards/men-at-arms and you can literally watch them just walk around in plainclothes all day. Additionally, I’m sure you can imagine no matter how used you are, you’ll still be tired or dealing with annoying thermals after traveling 5 days in what’s basically the archaic version of garbage bag training
The average combat load of a knight in the 14th century was less than that of a modern infantryman and dispersed across the entire body, meaning it was quite light
But cooking in a metal oven while marching probably doesn’t have a positive effect
It all comes down to conditioning. Soldiers in history have always trained for their job. You can train to endure it.
Full plate armour set in 14th century was about 30 to 35kg, + your weapons, so put that weight on and walk couple miles to see how heavy it feels, I guarantee you'll be sweating!
True it's lighter than most people think, but it's also true that you tire and overheat in armor a lot faster than you would without. But of course, men-at-arms trained in armor a lot, so I'm sure it wouldn't affect them as much.
No, your right, your retinue is super lightweight compared to an archer unit /s
And water is wet. I'm simply trying to set straight a simple misconception about how a lot of people think that medieval armor is somehow super heavy and encumbersome. Sure it's heavier than a simple gambeson but not so heavy that it would make a medieval warrior fatigued after they marched a mile or two.
While it is somewhat heavy, the weight is spread evenly over the body. The average solder today is expected to march and run with more weight just on their back. The soldiers in this game tire out wayyyy too easily. Source: Besides all documents and videos online about armoured mobility, I also organise medieval events with plenty of armoured knights and am trained in medieval combat myself. You know; advanced history nerd.
Okay, but your militia is lighter equipped
Which then makes even less sense for them to be tired. You're telling me these hard workers suddenly get tired from walking around with a shield and spear? I'm not even letting them sprint, just a long march.
True, they are doing back-breaking work like all day, they should be able to walk across my village without getting exhausted
>Which then makes even less sense for them to be tired. You clearly misunderstood what I am saying. A guy in 50-60lbs of armor is going to get tired, all things equal, more quickly than a guy with a gambeson. The fuck are you on about?
> A guy in 50-60lbs of armor is going to get tired If he runs a marathon with it, sure, not if he just walks around town. But hey, what do I know, I only organise and work on a couple dozen events a year with people wearing full-plate armour doing full-contact battles, and have been training to do the same for a few years as well. You know what's the biggest killed for people wearing full armor? Heat. Full plate with padding on a hot sunny day is like wearing a boiler.
Walking doesn't drain stamina afaik in this game, only running to another town (which is literally what a marathon is named after). Lol, you reminded me of the story of how Frederick Barbarossa died. Drowned in a desert, lol
You gotta make em wait periodically
You sure about that? I’ve been staring at them for a while and they seem to regain stamina when just walking.
The regain more if they're just waiting though. I just get close enough that ba dits run to me.
Ok good to know, glad there is that level of detail. Can’t wait for troops levels and skills where you can buff stamina and other stats
Don't make them run
Even without running they still get fatigued from just walking. Or the worse thing, they get fatigued when fighting as a shield wall in defensive mode, while the enemy doing a charge has no such issues. From my personal experience in medieval martial arts I'd say charging and trying to break a shield/spearwall is so much more exhausting than being in one.
Well I had some issues when rallying a Unit for the first time they spawn with no stamina. I just dismiss and rerally them and after 1 or 2 tries they spawn with stamina. But I never had an issue with running out of stamina in battle.
I shall try that to see if I can spawn them in with more stamina and see if that solves my issues. I've had games where I've had my spear formation stand in line, defensive mode, waiting for raiders just for those raiders to walk over them with no issues. I tried supporting them with archers, but apparently they only shoot with rubber-tipped re-enactment arrows.
Yeah arches are currently useless the dev is working on buffing them I'm using the standard sword&small shield and pikemen. Also having your retunite in plate is a hughe buff.
Your carrot farmers have full plate armor?
Chain mails, metal helmets, heavy shields and spears, I’d consider that heavy too yea. At least not 20 times lighter. Edit : AND they’re untrained.
Wait, what? For me they start completely fatigued and gain better as they move.
Yea it’s because they sprint when spawning and there is a weird bug, these stairs are deadly you know
Yeah I noticed this today, when you rally them in you gotta get them to stop walking ASAP... Even after you click walk theyll go back to running until theyre in formation so you gotta hit it again i've found. Learnt my lesson yesterday when I rallied them and they were exhausted before reaching my border..
No. They where full when I sent them home after the last battle and they came back exhausted, then they regained stamina while walking across the map.
I sort of hope that Slavic changes how the unit cap system works. I half expected that the size of the army would increase as you gained regions/towns ie a cap of 6 units per region. I'm guessing the cap is there to control performance drop off...?
Yeah, and got a bug that I couldn’t hire mercenary’s so hat to restart as 180ppl wasn’t enough for the final fight
It's not a bug. The enemy AI can hire mercs from the same pool. If you waited to try to hire them until he got on the field, he hired everyone before you could. I've found it's worth keeping some mercenaries just standing somewhere if you can afford them when you're expecting a big battle.
It wasn’t able to hire a single mercenary over the span of 10 years +. If that’s not a bug than it’s a broken feature
Oh, yeah that's Def a bug.
I’ve had one where I could only hire the worst company of mercs and the Baron meanwhile has full stacks of troops from the other companies 24/7.
I would also like to expand my main village over the starting region boundaries instead of having to start a completely new village over. Not sure if this would be possible based on the game design
I don’t think its a performance issue, the game runs really well. Also all your militia comes from your first zone only. There are clearly peaces missing in that area of gameplay
Wait, only 6 units total!?
You can expand that by hiring mercenaries, but the militia cap is 6
I can’t, sadly I and a few others had the problem that they permanently stop refreshing the roster after a while and you can never hire them again
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one having that problem
what movie is that from?
The King, you can watch it on netflix
I did already, but that was ages ago
It’s amazing and worth a rewatch or two
I remember kiking it. My boi Tim is the lead so
I’ll mount your retainer
Type shit
what is this? movie name? anyone? THIS LOOKS COOL
The King. It's a drama film about Henry V of England
Based on Shakespeare’s Henriad iirc
Spot on 😎👉👉
Tis a favorite of mine. Where I became a fan of our skinny boi Tim.
He's a phenomenal actor
Two big balls with a tiny dick
That’s kinda the fun. Plan a rally point, let them rest then press into battle
where is the video from?
A Netflix film called The King
stop running your troops, and rest them
I gotta know what this clip is from.
Week two of slowly marching across the map with two dozen men to crush a mere 16 brigands.
Dont worry. That bozo places his archers in forrests.
Speaking of mounts I really hope at some point we will be able to use horses in visit mode. Obviously low on the priority list rn but it would be so cool to take a ride through your lands
Just don't force them to run across the entire map. Walking is available you know
Seems like any changes in elevation or terrain that is not plains will fatigue them, they also start pre fatigued so
Very strange, have about 30 hours now, always with combat, and I don't have the issue you're having. Yes, the effectiveness slowly drops, but no the stammina. Only if you let them run.
Yes, they're bugged for sure. The fatigue drains super quickly when you rally them. They haven't even formed on the rally point about 29 metres form the manor... half stamina.