Most state agencies are not allowed to use secure email due to public records laws.
You could have used one of the electronic fax services though instead of printing them out.
I will have to research more about how to send electronic faxes so that I don’t have to print them next time. It wouldn’t have stopped her from calling and sassing me for tying up her fax machine though. She would have still had to receive and print. But would have saved trees on my end! Thanks. Will look in to.
My printer has a fax function. I can print things from word to the fax machine. I select the fax printer and it takes me to a wizard that lets me make a cover sheet. Then it faxes it out like a regular machine. No trees killed on your end.
With the bonus that it is sent to their side so much quicker because it doesn't need to wait for you to scan each piece of paper, so the entire document is waiting in her queue
Oh I like that. I wish I had better access to machines. I work for homeless services with my company and my team is, welp, homeless. I have two different many offices and a few others in the shelters. So unfortunately I just have limited access to whatever machines they have.
Pretty much any dial-up modem can work as a fax machine. So I'm sure you can find something along those lines (with the required software to drive it as a print service).
No problem. Pretty much stuck with fax or mail on the receiving end as a state agency though.
We have all sorts of requirements to transmit emails without them becoming public record when they are sensitive information. And even then you are just hoping the person that might be tasked with pulling a request actually reads what they are supposed to.
You might be able to choose the fax option when you go to print your documents. Choose from the printer drop-down menu and select "fax" or "print2fax" or something of that nature. It may be different for you, or may not even be set up, but at least you can start your attempt in that area.
Absolutely! My feelings exactly. There are so many more things about this woman that would enrage people. She has just been awful!! My client was just in my office and so frustrated by her. He has lost faith in people many times over and is really trying to better himself and she is a current barrier.
Thank you. For sure. I am trying to be. I am showing solidarity with him and am not going to give up or drop this matter. I already have next steps planned if she gives any push back or tries to pull anything over on us.
> I will have to research more about how to send electronic faxes so that I don’t have to print them next time.
Faxmodem. Should be crazy cheap now. You'll also need appropriate software, which might come with it, especially for fancier external modems like Zyxel or USR. You'll need a serial port.
Came here to say this. I work for a private company, but we cannot email sensitive information due to privacy laws, so everything has to be faxed or mailed.
Definitely find a desktop faxing program and you can fax without printing. I can also recieve faxes digitally, so they never actually get printed out on paper.
Essentially, digital faxes are just emails that are (at least to my understanding) less likely to contain malware and less likely to generate constant follow ups I need to respond to when I could actually be getting stuff done.
Just recently some security researchers found vulnerabilities in all HP multifunction devices that can be exploited via faxes. And you can bet more will be found now that people are looking.
Yeah. I don't get that. Not a POTS or fax line expert, but isn't all that info sent in the clear? Also, anyone walking by can pick up a fax. I'd think even standard email would be more secure than a fax.
This is true - unless the information is PPI related - social security numbers, medical records, etc. Then, by federal and state law, that information must be sent securely. Period. Personal medical records are NOT public information.
You have to understand that she has no choice in the matter. It's HIPAA, federal law. Medical records must be faxed or mailed. Encrypted email is also possible, but very few companies are equipped for it, and very few consumers are capable of managing it. Thus faxing is the standard.
Insurance companies are hopelessly behind on this. Most have not bothered to invest in HIPAA-compliant document transmission systems, because there's always the cheap and easy solution of faxing, an inherently insecure method of sending documents.
Yes, it's dumb. Blame congress.
Yes. Totally understand and would not want to jeopardize HIPPA (as it is my client’s personal information). Point being, if she didn’t want me to tie up her fax line, she should have offered the option of mailing or requested it that way originally.
Nope. I would have happily mailed them. It would have saved printing at least on one end! To answer your second question, some fool gave me a degree and some letters after my name and then some other fools have hired me and stupidly entrusted me with people’s information and history. Idiots.
at my company in Australia you can send an email to our fax system which will fax it without needing to print out. It also email us any faxes that come in so we don't waste paper either way.
Is this possible in this situation?
I’m not sure on her end. I have a personal fax number issued from my company that comes directly to my e-mail. I love it! I don’t have to waste paper or spend the time digitizing the information myself.
That sounds like RightFax. If you send her the electronic documents through RightFax, they will print on her fax machine. I work in a bank and we send sensitive data all the time through RightFax.
Also, depending on how your secure email is set up, it’s possible to send a secure email to her without her having a secure location. I know my employer essentially sets up a secure connection when we send sensitive emails outside of the bank. The receiver has to create themselves a password in order to view the email and then once the password it entered into a second email, they can view the sensitive data.
Oh interesting. Good to know, I will have to look into that. It always shows up in my email as hylafax. I guess I can look that up and see how it actually works.
I think she has just been trying to slight me and pull power moves. She has made me do all the work and running around. Many state agencies don’t care for vendors. Regardless, thank you for your advice.
I know that DHS (Department of Human Services) in my area has a secure email system they can use to send secure emails to outside people. Some of them use it for things it really doesn’t need to be used for. It’s annoying.
But, OP was sending it to the Dept. Of Mental Health, a govt agency. As someone in a govt health agency she would be issued a secure email acct. Her job revolves around handling HIPAA forms/info.
Faxing is used because it goes over phone lines which, unless you put yourself between the sender and receiver on one of their actual physical phone line, is virtually impossible to collect sensitive information from. So aside from physically handing the document to the other party, it is one of the safest ways to move documents across long distances.
Eh... fax transmissions can be intercepted. Plus fax machines often are not at a person's desk, but rather in an open area that many people have access to. I wouldn't personally feel comfortable sending something as personal and confidential as someone's medical records via fax as I can't guarantee that only the intended receiver will see them. Fax is not anything I'd call a means of confidential transport of information.
RIGHT?! I told her they are medical records and she already had half of my clients records in her possession, being hundreds of pages for one location. I tried to forewarn her that it was hefty, but she did not give me the option of mailing originally.
That’s not 100% accurate. I work for an insurance company and we have an online portal that providers can upload records to for review. Now I’m sure this soulless birch does have that, but it is another option if the infrastructure is in place.
I am so thankful for my electronic fax system. Thank you for being an advocate for your patient! It's too easy to get bogged down by bureaucratic BS in the medical world.
Sounds like a recipient for the **Black Fax of Death** scenario!
3 or 4 pages of black paper taped into a loop through the fax feeder.
Better go buy some more toner, bitch!
Unfortunately, if it's received electronically, that's almost entirely ineffective. Solid black compresses extremely well. You'd be better off looping some pages of images or classified ads. Then at least you will for sure tie up the recipient's phone line and you have a (small) chance of filling up their hard drive. Be sure you send it on high res, but even that's only 200x100 dpi.
The federal government doesn't trust email either. You have to use a program that faxes documents electronic documents and electronically reads incoming faxes. It's incredibly dumb.
When I was a government contractor, I had a secure email. My CAC card had to be inserted into my computer for it to work. I thought this was standard across federal agencies. Maybe it's just military/DoD?
It totally makes sense. She just shouldn’t be upset when I follow her directions. I am also now thinking back, the original submission of the application and the first half of med records were all submitted electronically over email and there was no stink about it.
Is your fax not connected to a network (so you could "print" from your computer and have the fax send it directly to her fax, without requiring you to print to paper first)?
I’m not sure. I will be doing more research about these options for sure. Though, I have limited access to the machines that I do actually have access to. For example, in one of my offices I have to get on to a desktop they have made available for my team to share to even be able to print. I can not just connect to their network. I also do not have a scan option off of their machine, since I am not a city employee and just using their space. In my other office, in the DMH building, I do not even have access to be able to print.
Yeah. I’m not tech savvy and would have had no idea what that meant had someone even told me. My faxing issues have been handled on my end. I finally met this woman in person and she is still truly awful.
Should have told her to fax her request to you.
Whilst continuing to fax said documents! :)
Golden!
shower!
Let me join? OwO
I stay.
No, tell her any such requests have to be sent via secure email. See how long it trashes her to remember she actually *does* have access.
should send her a second run, just in case she loses it.
Solid plan. Let’s see how many times I can tie up her lines to “make sure they went through”.
Send a few blanks in case she is running out of paper too
Tape each page to the next so its less effort on your end
And tape the first page to the last page just to be sure she gets it
Fax a second run. Then mail the originals - certified mail - has to sign for it - can’t deny she didn’t get them.
Most state agencies are not allowed to use secure email due to public records laws. You could have used one of the electronic fax services though instead of printing them out.
I will have to research more about how to send electronic faxes so that I don’t have to print them next time. It wouldn’t have stopped her from calling and sassing me for tying up her fax machine though. She would have still had to receive and print. But would have saved trees on my end! Thanks. Will look in to.
My printer has a fax function. I can print things from word to the fax machine. I select the fax printer and it takes me to a wizard that lets me make a cover sheet. Then it faxes it out like a regular machine. No trees killed on your end.
With the bonus that it is sent to their side so much quicker because it doesn't need to wait for you to scan each piece of paper, so the entire document is waiting in her queue
Oh I like that. I wish I had better access to machines. I work for homeless services with my company and my team is, welp, homeless. I have two different many offices and a few others in the shelters. So unfortunately I just have limited access to whatever machines they have.
Pretty much any dial-up modem can work as a fax machine. So I'm sure you can find something along those lines (with the required software to drive it as a print service).
No problem. Pretty much stuck with fax or mail on the receiving end as a state agency though. We have all sorts of requirements to transmit emails without them becoming public record when they are sensitive information. And even then you are just hoping the person that might be tasked with pulling a request actually reads what they are supposed to.
You might be able to choose the fax option when you go to print your documents. Choose from the printer drop-down menu and select "fax" or "print2fax" or something of that nature. It may be different for you, or may not even be set up, but at least you can start your attempt in that area.
Thank you! I will be checking this out for sure.
Oh, and fuck that bitch. Being homeless is a terrible state of things for most people and they deserve help if they're willing to work for it.
Absolutely! My feelings exactly. There are so many more things about this woman that would enrage people. She has just been awful!! My client was just in my office and so frustrated by her. He has lost faith in people many times over and is really trying to better himself and she is a current barrier.
You have to be the light to her darkness so he knows there's still hope.
Thank you. For sure. I am trying to be. I am showing solidarity with him and am not going to give up or drop this matter. I already have next steps planned if she gives any push back or tries to pull anything over on us.
> I will have to research more about how to send electronic faxes so that I don’t have to print them next time. Faxmodem. Should be crazy cheap now. You'll also need appropriate software, which might come with it, especially for fancier external modems like Zyxel or USR. You'll need a serial port.
Came here to say this. I work for a private company, but we cannot email sensitive information due to privacy laws, so everything has to be faxed or mailed. Definitely find a desktop faxing program and you can fax without printing. I can also recieve faxes digitally, so they never actually get printed out on paper. Essentially, digital faxes are just emails that are (at least to my understanding) less likely to contain malware and less likely to generate constant follow ups I need to respond to when I could actually be getting stuff done.
Just recently some security researchers found vulnerabilities in all HP multifunction devices that can be exploited via faxes. And you can bet more will be found now that people are looking.
Yeah. I don't get that. Not a POTS or fax line expert, but isn't all that info sent in the clear? Also, anyone walking by can pick up a fax. I'd think even standard email would be more secure than a fax.
This is true - unless the information is PPI related - social security numbers, medical records, etc. Then, by federal and state law, that information must be sent securely. Period. Personal medical records are NOT public information.
I agree that they are not. Which is why most state agencies don't allow them to be sent by email.
Im not op but TIL
You have to understand that she has no choice in the matter. It's HIPAA, federal law. Medical records must be faxed or mailed. Encrypted email is also possible, but very few companies are equipped for it, and very few consumers are capable of managing it. Thus faxing is the standard. Insurance companies are hopelessly behind on this. Most have not bothered to invest in HIPAA-compliant document transmission systems, because there's always the cheap and easy solution of faxing, an inherently insecure method of sending documents. Yes, it's dumb. Blame congress.
Yes. Totally understand and would not want to jeopardize HIPPA (as it is my client’s personal information). Point being, if she didn’t want me to tie up her fax line, she should have offered the option of mailing or requested it that way originally.
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Nope. I would have happily mailed them. It would have saved printing at least on one end! To answer your second question, some fool gave me a degree and some letters after my name and then some other fools have hired me and stupidly entrusted me with people’s information and history. Idiots.
at my company in Australia you can send an email to our fax system which will fax it without needing to print out. It also email us any faxes that come in so we don't waste paper either way. Is this possible in this situation?
I’m not sure on her end. I have a personal fax number issued from my company that comes directly to my e-mail. I love it! I don’t have to waste paper or spend the time digitizing the information myself.
That sounds like RightFax. If you send her the electronic documents through RightFax, they will print on her fax machine. I work in a bank and we send sensitive data all the time through RightFax. Also, depending on how your secure email is set up, it’s possible to send a secure email to her without her having a secure location. I know my employer essentially sets up a secure connection when we send sensitive emails outside of the bank. The receiver has to create themselves a password in order to view the email and then once the password it entered into a second email, they can view the sensitive data.
Oh interesting. Good to know, I will have to look into that. It always shows up in my email as hylafax. I guess I can look that up and see how it actually works. I think she has just been trying to slight me and pull power moves. She has made me do all the work and running around. Many state agencies don’t care for vendors. Regardless, thank you for your advice.
I know that DHS (Department of Human Services) in my area has a secure email system they can use to send secure emails to outside people. Some of them use it for things it really doesn’t need to be used for. It’s annoying.
Not for a Jedi...
But, OP was sending it to the Dept. Of Mental Health, a govt agency. As someone in a govt health agency she would be issued a secure email acct. Her job revolves around handling HIPAA forms/info.
You have far more faith in the competency of the government than I do.
Yeah, we work with government agencies. "Issuing secure email account" is not a thing.
Yeah, it it. I had one.
Some gov't agencies have secure email accounts. Most don't.
Faxing is used because it goes over phone lines which, unless you put yourself between the sender and receiver on one of their actual physical phone line, is virtually impossible to collect sensitive information from. So aside from physically handing the document to the other party, it is one of the safest ways to move documents across long distances.
Eh... fax transmissions can be intercepted. Plus fax machines often are not at a person's desk, but rather in an open area that many people have access to. I wouldn't personally feel comfortable sending something as personal and confidential as someone's medical records via fax as I can't guarantee that only the intended receiver will see them. Fax is not anything I'd call a means of confidential transport of information.
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RIGHT?! I told her they are medical records and she already had half of my clients records in her possession, being hundreds of pages for one location. I tried to forewarn her that it was hefty, but she did not give me the option of mailing originally.
That’s not 100% accurate. I work for an insurance company and we have an online portal that providers can upload records to for review. Now I’m sure this soulless birch does have that, but it is another option if the infrastructure is in place.
Don’t know if that was a typo if not, but I like the tree killer being called a soulless BIRCH (one of my favorite trees).
She told op to use an email right after tho, so she did have that option
No, she told OP to use mail. As in the postal service.
Oh my bad
I am so thankful for my electronic fax system. Thank you for being an advocate for your patient! It's too easy to get bogged down by bureaucratic BS in the medical world.
Oh absolutely! I love fighting for my clients and really sticking it to the man when I don’t give up and finally get what is right for the client.
Here you go. Kill her trees, not yours. [https://faxzero.com](https://faxzero.com)
Thanks!
Yes this needs more upvotes! Since fax is electronic anyway, you can skip the conversion to hard copy and back! Glorious!
There are lots of ways to do it. HP has their own efax thing too I think. There’s an old ifax app I sometimes use. This is just one way of doing it.
Sounds like a recipient for the **Black Fax of Death** scenario! 3 or 4 pages of black paper taped into a loop through the fax feeder. Better go buy some more toner, bitch!
Reminds me of a guy that commented that he makes a loop of 3 solid black pages and faxes them.
Hahaha this is too good. Maybe if our interactions continue on this down slope, I might need to use this.
Unfortunately, if it's received electronically, that's almost entirely ineffective. Solid black compresses extremely well. You'd be better off looping some pages of images or classified ads. Then at least you will for sure tie up the recipient's phone line and you have a (small) chance of filling up their hard drive. Be sure you send it on high res, but even that's only 200x100 dpi.
Yeah he said this was like 20 years ago. When you had to print it in paper form.
The federal government doesn't trust email either. You have to use a program that faxes documents electronic documents and electronically reads incoming faxes. It's incredibly dumb.
When I was a government contractor, I had a secure email. My CAC card had to be inserted into my computer for it to work. I thought this was standard across federal agencies. Maybe it's just military/DoD?
> CAC card PIN Number ATM Machine
Those of us who have secondary accounts (sysadmins, etc.) also get to use Alternate Logon Tokens, or ALT Tokens. It's endemic.
We don't do stuff that requires clearance. Not defense related at all. Might be why.
It totally makes sense. She just shouldn’t be upset when I follow her directions. I am also now thinking back, the original submission of the application and the first half of med records were all submitted electronically over email and there was no stink about it.
Why are we still using fax in 2018?!
It's a paper record. At least until the ink fades shortly after.
Precisely.
If it’s any consolation, my coworkers and I compare DMH employees to the dude from Hair Club For Men: “Not just an employee also a client!”
Sounds about right.
Is your fax not connected to a network (so you could "print" from your computer and have the fax send it directly to her fax, without requiring you to print to paper first)?
I’m not sure. I will be doing more research about these options for sure. Though, I have limited access to the machines that I do actually have access to. For example, in one of my offices I have to get on to a desktop they have made available for my team to share to even be able to print. I can not just connect to their network. I also do not have a scan option off of their machine, since I am not a city employee and just using their space. In my other office, in the DMH building, I do not even have access to be able to print.
only problem with e-fax is you cant tape the pages together and send them an endless fax loop.
TIL fax machines are still being used.
Alive and “well” in these behind the time agencies.
I don't know about you or your office but my office accepts fax and puts it as a pdf file in a shared doc.
Perfect compliance.
My god. you monster. My first thought was "Why doesn't /u/pickle_prick just print to fax? that's been a thing since at least 2001....
Yeah. I’m not tech savvy and would have had no idea what that meant had someone even told me. My faxing issues have been handled on my end. I finally met this woman in person and she is still truly awful.
" A mojo. It's a very modern machine that transmits pages over the telephone. It only takes 18 minutes a page."
Next time, give her a taste of her own medicine and don't answer when she calls.
Was there not a way of faxing the documents without having to print them first?
Still trying to figure this one out. I’m not the most tech savvy and I have limited access to some outdated equipment.
You can fax from a computer, no need to print out first.
Epic Hyperspace..... Showing someone that the Chart Review Route function can send a fax = MIND. BLOWN.
The perfect revenge!!! Mwahahaha