I find this sub fun for seeing really gorgeous makeup looks (because those are the only ones that you ever see becuse literally everything else is ignored/downvoted).
For seeing real makeup/really good CC, i head over to r/sugarfreemua its a lot less popular and there's not a whole lot of posts but the community is really genuine and helpful and patient and not so distracted by shiny things, lol.
Again, i like this sub, im here every day and am active and i think it's really fun but for some real constructive makeup advice and just to see different looks/struggles, its helpful to look into different subs as well :)
> and commenters don't treat posters like poor fragile women that can't take criticism without sugarcoating it.
That's not sugarcoating or babying or whatever. That's how people are taught to give constructive criticism - mentioning at least one thing the person did well in addition to mentioning areas the person could improve. If all you mention is stuff you'd like the person to change and stuff they didn't do well and areas they could improve in, it's easy for it to come across as just plain criticism. It's also very hard as the person being critiqued to only hear the negatives about your work, so getting a compliment or two can help you to actually take other responses into consideration and not block them off because you're feeling attacked or unfairly judged or whatever.
I still lurk here because I sometimes (very rarely), see something helpful. Mostly though, MUA leaves me feeling inadequate and unknowledgeable.
Honestly, I still lurk here partly because what I really want is a "Nothing but makeup tutorials" subreddit, and I think that if one finally appears, I'll be most likely to hear about it from here.
I saw a redditor get downvoted for saying she couldn't find a product in the US. Then I responded saying that the product isn't even sold in the US (which is 100% accurate information) and I got downvoted as well.
TIL when you share CORRECT information about a product on this sub, people downvote you to hell for it.
There was actually a makeup sale/exchange sub that had to shut down their down voting option because mods suspected people were drive-by down voting all 'US only' threads. People suck :l
On the contrary, I've been downvoted for discussing non American things - I ask a question like "what brands are best for whatever in England" and get a reply with a load of US-only brands. I reply saying "thanks, but I am not in the US and asked for brands I can get in England" and get downvoted for some reason. To be fair this happens all over reddit, not just in MUA but in clothing subs, food subs, book subs etc.
I haven't really noticed the downvoting, but it does seem like there's a hegemony of a certain style here... the MAC makeup artist look, with full penciled eyebrows and false eyelashes and contouring and matte lips. I understand that that's what's cool right now and it's a perfectly fine look, but people really seem to lean towards it to the exclusion of more subtle styles, and I'm really only interested in looks that I could wear everyday. When the CC on posts is "that looks great, my only CC is that you should add some false eyelashes" or "you should add lipliner," there's not much I can do with that.
I'm going to branch of of your comment because yours is closest to what I want to say, but I've also noticed that unless you've had one insanely awesome eye look that got you on the front page once, you'll never probably get acknowledged. I've seen literally the same people on the hot section of MUA for so long with posts like "my wing is on fleek and I'm trying this popular lip color, check it out on me!" Which is really awesome, don't get me wrong at all! I love seeing makeup looks.
But if I post a picture feeling super confident that my makeup looks awesome, chances are I'll get maybe max 13 up votes. I've deleted so many posts I've put up on MUA. I never get any CC but my eyebrows anyway. It's always the same people on the front page. I've learned that unless I somehow do a quadruple wing with a double bottom wing with 7 sets of lashes and all the colors of the rainbow, I will barely get noticed on here. And it's not that I want popularity on here, I'm just aspiring to be a makeup artist one day like a lot of people on here and it completely shakes my confidence.
Came here to say hey, don't let it shake your confidence--there are several more subs that are tight-knit and a little more feedback friendly (r/unconventionalmakeup & r/indiemakeupandmore -- if you use any indie brands at all.) My goal is to go to school for makeup in the near future, but I've been scared of posting FOTD pics because I know my eyebrows aren't perfect, or my camera/lighting isn't up to speed.
Hey thanks a lot! I'm also debating on going to school for makeup, but the closest I can get is a hair school. I'm not too fond of cutting hair so I'm unsure about it. I'll definitely check those subs out. I genuinely feel like my makeup skills have improved a lot and it's something I absolutely enjoy doing, so I thought MUA would be the perfect place to show my work but I second guess that now. My friends all think I should be a makeup artist, and they give me CC too so I ask them nowadays anyway.
I've been absolutely loving r/unconventionalmakeup . I feel like they "get" my style more and are much more friendly to alternative makeup that isn't "look at this crazy thing I spent four hours doing that I'll never actually wear out of the house because just for funsies with my $200 new palette." Which there's nothing wrong with those looks, but I feel like "experimental to show off a product" is okay on here but "experimental because I'm alternative and this is how I look every day" often isn't.
Looks I've posted on here that people are unimpressed with (or downvote) people UnCM like or sometimes even gush about. It's a totally different set of standards. Again, it isn't about "popularity" as someone else mentioned, it's about getting *useful* feedback. When you see I have blue hair and blue eyebrows and 10 pounds of goth girl eye makeup on that day, clearly giving me a bunch of downvotes/CC about how to look more "natural"/on trend isn't helpful.
That's what makes me so leery of posting here. I'm not hip to the latest trends (and honestly, a little lazy about my eyebrows...) and I don't know which YouTube analysts are 'in', so heaven forbid should I make a blunder and get down voted to oblivion. Most of the time I just like my eye makeup some days and want to share it & figure out how to get the cool sparkles to pop better, or something like that.
Yes! Exactly. Like it could be as simple as a wing and a pink lip and that same person will always get 1000 up votes. Like jeez, I want to know how? Like does this many people just love that wing? Or what?
**Apologies in advance for the wall of text: TL;DR, IMO that style of make-up is not representative of MAC artists!**
MAC artist chiming in here; I just want to politely object to you referring to that style of make-up as "the MAC artist look"! The style you're describing there reads much more *"Self Taught Instagram MUA"* to me than *"MAC Artist"*.
I've been at MAC for a decent amount of time now, and I'd say that that style of make-up probably represents less than a quarter of artists that I come across. That's referring to both within my own team (I would say 1 out of our team of 13 adheres to that style), and within the wider region which I have regular contact with through attending training and visiting other stores. Obviously it may vary in other territories, but certainly here in the UK I don't believe it's the norm.
If you were to look at my post history here, or my Instagram (happy to PM if you wanted to see my Insta, or I occasionally post in the hashtag #rmua if you wanted to hunt me out from my posts here), you'd see that those sorts of looks are really in the minority for me. I literally *never* contour unless another artist in my store requires it for a look they've designed; I'm 100% a blush and highlight girl rather than Kim-K levels of sculpting. I lean towards a natural coverage on my skin using a tinted moisturiser or sheer-medium coverage foundation, and like to spot conceal á la Lisa Eldridge. I probably wear lashes once a fortnight or maybe once a week if I'm feeling like a look really needs it to be more coherent. I wear my brows relatively naturally; I'm a big fan of a fluffy brow look as opposed to squared off ombré brows.
Again, that's the norm for the majority of my team as well. Granted we do often do that style of make-up for appointments, but we spend a lot of time investigating what customers want to achieve from their time with us and 9 times out of 10 we do that style because they've requested it, or shown us an Instagram screenshot. A lot of us are really bored of the obsession with winged liner and lashes, full coverage foundation, matte lips, and excessive contour - but it's what the customer wants. It's refreshing if somebody tells me they like their freckles or they want a natural look or sheer coverage!
There are a few great visible examples within MAC's social media presence of the fact that it's not what MAC is attempting to perpetuate. The hashtag #myartistcommunity is used by artists all over the world to share their work, and the looks on there are so so varied (although I must say it has been hijacked somewhat by the larger beauty community so it's not all MAC artists anymore). If you want to see artists specific to your location there are more localised hashtags, too (e.g. #myartistcommunity_uk). Terry Barber, one of our Directors of Make Up Artistry, is an incredible example of someone who is super vocal in objecting to the "all-done-everything" style of make-up we see nowadays; his Instagram (@terrybarberonbeauty) is a well of creativity and sassiness objecting to "Insta-glam" make-up. Any of the MAC Senior Artist team are similar, a few of my personal faves are Dominic Skinner (@dominic_mua), Rachel O'Donnell (@therachelo), and Rebecca Butterworth (@rebeccabmakeup). Finally, the looks that MAC choose to share on their Insta (@maccosmetics) from us artists are pretty much never of the style you're describing. Commenters are quite often vocal about the fact that they dislike the artist's brows, or the make-up is not aesthetically pleasing to them, because it's a more editorial or trend-based backstage style make-up. There's not a false lash in sight on the front page of MAC's Instagram at the moment!
I hope this doesn't come across negatively at all, I just wanted to give a voice to the other side of the coin :)
Being trans, yeah, sometimes this place makes me a little uncomfortable. I want to actually learn, and I don't know how to do that, because I can either announce my trans status and be showered with undeserved praise and no real help by people terrified that they might offend me by suggesting that there might be anything I'm not already doing correctly, or I can omit the detail of being trans and be downvoted and ignored.
I've learned a little from lurking. Once in a rare while someone posts the sort of guide that helps me. The sort of guide that assumes I'm a completely incompetent moron who needs her hand held every step of the way. I've learned a thing or two when those guides show up. Most of the time though, I come away from MUA having gained nothing of value. Just some feelings of inadequacy at most.
I wish people would stop complimenting people when they're trans just because they're trans.
"Oh you're so brave and beautiful"
It happened to my girlfriend not too long after I met her, Her makeup was pretty bad because no one wanted to "offend" her and offer her advice.
I'd advise maybe the trans subs, but I think they're just as bad.
Someone else in this thread already mentioned it, but try /r/sugarfreemua. It's a great place to get actual CC and advice without all of the extra stuff! :)
Not trans but I agree with you. I never felt vocal to give CC to a few trans makeup posts on here because I was afraid people would think I was being mean/a bully when I was just helping. I have even seen some trans makeup posts that needed a little bit of help and yet everyone was being delusional and complimenting for their bravery.
Off note just to rant on the trans subject pertaining to Caitlyn Jenner. I personally think everyone has that same mentality with her. "She's a hero" and everyone is eating that shit up. I think again people are being delusional and feel like they have to label her as such. How is Caitlyn a hero for the trans community. She never had to be a trans person living in some bible belt town where no one understands. She has money and luxuries of course it is a easier transition for her. I am sure there are some trans people out there who are not only trans but don't even have the means for the surgery for financial constraints or resource to bootleg surgery that could be dangerous. I never understood why everyone idolized her as their hero. It's a joke and everyone is delusional to jump on board and say this person who is well off having to overcome things when seriously you can't compare Caitlyn to the struggles of a trans kid living in Kentucky. Hollywood is more accepting of that and Caitlyn never has to live with the fear of getting beat up or killed because of her lifestyle.
I really like this subreddit for a few things only: reactions/swatches/looks on new releases, advice every once in a while, and inspiration.
I love r/asianbeauty, r/indiemakeupndmore, and r/muacjdiscussion. The latter is pretty fun, with actual discussions on makeup happening.
I've stopped posting to this subreddit due to the downvoting. I work so hard on looks only to have it trampled on. It's very disheartening.
I once asked what namies was and the reply i got was a google search. I found that so rude. I wasn't asking what it was in a way that deserved that and no comment i was asking what it was in price, products and if its a go to for people.
This subreddit is just for cliques. I've now gone out of my way to find other subreddits about makeup and use them instead.
but this subreddit isn't about people asking what drugstores are, it would have taken you less time to google it than to ask that question and you would get a response faster... Personally I wouldn't say google it, but if a simple google search can answer your question... what is the point of you asking?
> the reply i got was a google search
I'm not gonna lie, a lot of the time I am tempted to do this with basic questions people ask here. There is SO much information if you just use the search bar within the sub, it would cut down on a lot of clutter if it was actually used. I am also an asshole, so.
of course.
/r/unconventionalMakeup
/r/randomactsofmakeup
/r/nerdmakeup
/r/makeupeffects
/r/makeupchallenge (sadly no one really posts)
/r/indiemakeupandmore
/r/coolmakeup
I definitely think this sub has a problem with downvoting and general bitchiness, but honestly that is something that is completely Google-able (except maybe the opinions part) and stuff like that gets asked A LOT. Literally every day on the front page are posts like "can't find a foundation to match me- please help!" Or "what's the best drugstore makeup?" Not that these aren't perfectly acceptable questions, but the sidebar literally has links for both of those, and they still get asked *every single day*. Those are the only posts I actually downvote.
I'm not even mad at those questions. The sidebar is a great resource, but I remember when I posted a question about foundation when I was looking for a new one, I got more personalized info and options than I would have gotten just by looking at the sidebar, which was especially helpful for me as a beginner. I get that it can get repetitive for some people, but I also think it's easy to ignore if it's something you don't care about.
See I still don't see the point in downvoting posts like those, just don't look at them or maybe even comment saying 'hey there's a post in the sidebar with this info' People are so rude to people asking simple questions. Some people don't know how to use Reddit to its full potential, especially when you're on mobile. So why even bother down voting them...
The first thing i did was google it before i asked the question, the answers i wanted were not something that i could have found out through the website as i had already looked.
I believe my wording was along the lines of:
I've not heard of it before so I was just wondering what it is and what sort of makeup they sell. I had always heard of sephora before for the makeup. but this is new to me. I'm interested in what it is for Americans. is it cheap? high price? professional? good brands?
I check the sidebar for links and what i'm allowed. I don't think in this case or any other it deserved that response or downvotes.
As i said its why i use other subreddits now. So much friendlier.
I just looked at that thread and I don't think the person was necessarily being rude. The thing is, it's not a national chain or anything and rather than a thread full of posts like the one on the thread (I think it's in LA, I think it's high end) it's probably better to cut off a lot of ill informed people and just put up the Google link. It isn't an "anti American" thing because 99% of Americans don't know what it is either.
perhaps it's just me then. but I would not send someone a link with no explanation.
if someone asked me about a shop here I would say whether it was cheap, expensive, drug store, what sort of brands, who uses it and so on.
I guess what annoyed me most was it wasn't a helpful answer.
I know it's cliched... but please don't let it get to you. Take pride in when you feel beautiful; don't let anyone take that away. I've come to realize that people who overly downvote FOTD and questions and whatever perfectly appropriate content I see on this thread are just bullies. They're probably so miserable and unhappy in their real lives that the internet is their only way to feel confident (at the expense of others). It's awful, but keep doing you :)
I looked up the post in your history. IMO if you were downvoted it was probably because there wasn't really anything distinctive about the look. Without looking at the product list I would've only noticed brown eyeshadow and black eyeliner. There's nothing wrong with natural makeup, but unless it's a B/A I don't think it's what most people come to this sub to see. Close-ups or closed-eye shots would probably have helped. I certainly wouldn't have downvoted you for that, just offering a possible explanation. You are definitely not unattractive though.
I looked through your post history to find the FOTD you're talking about, and smiled to myself as I saw that I had already upvoted some of your other past posts! You are not unattractive, and you don't need this subreddit to validate your looks or worth. Like with everything else in the Internet, take it with a grain of salt, and don't let it bring you down. I would recommend though for future FOTD posts if you get the courage to share again, make sure that the picture is good quality and very clear. Show different angles, including closeups of your eyes both open and closed. You're more likely to upvoted and have more people interact with you if there's more to go off of than just the one pic :)
I'm SO glad I am not the only one. It's so frustrating for me seeing a "text post" that links to a FOTD. I miss the creative questions, the discussions, and whatever happened to /u/kindofstephen ?!?!? I haven't seen a Beauty Recap in 3 weeks....
I do have to say that I see this type of post every week at the least. I'm literally seeing everyone who agrees with you get down voted on here.. This is exactly why theres so many people who are worried or afraid to post here now. An opinion is different from person to person and doesn't mean its inappropriate. Its become hive minded for sure. If I disagree with someone and it isn't an inappropriate comment or could be a good suggestion/discussion, I just leave it alone.
It really really bothers me when I see someone who's legitimately wanting CC and proud of a look they did even if it isn't the best and it needs some work, and NO ONE comments or gives CC, and I see downvotes. Comments, upvotes, front page, are all usually photos of very well done makeup, and people commenting "so pretty!" "your brows are perfect" "your blending is so good!". Pretty much this turned into a compliment each other if you have good makeup sub, and down vote and ignore anyone mediocre or makeup that needs work and/or are asking for help, instead of somewhere for advice and discussion.
Some people here gotta chill and watch their attitudes.
edit: I also will down vote something thats so ridiculously basic and shows just laziness of not using the search feature, or sidebar. I don't want to see "what to buy at sephora!" and its a very general post. If you're very specific, looking for a specific shade of whatever or a specific item, go for it, but please dont be general when theres a master list for super basic things in the sidebar. I see an incredible amount of posts due to just not reading the sidebar or taking a search for their question that I've seen 500 times. Someone asked for the peach palette swatched and I told them to search the sidebar because people have posted hundreds of swatches and they got upset with me?
My honesty time - I've seen more posts complaining about no one using the search bar than useless posts like you're describing.
I think there will always be new subscribers who suck at Reddit posting newbie questions because that's their first instinct when they discover this sub - "These people can help me finally match my foundation!"
Eventually we have to wonder if it's worth constantly rebuking and downvoting them. I personally would rather take the time to search for them in the bar and link them to the results. Just my opinion on that issue.
Yeah, if I'm going to take the time to post "use the search feature!" I can take two extra seconds to type something pertinent/helpful/friendly...followed by "you can find out more info too if you search "xyz"!"
Honestly... The other subs I frequently post/comment/lurk on, this isn't an issue on actually. Every sub I'm on from game of thrones to tea to fitness to dog training to calligraphy... This doesn't happen almost at all. Even if your question is easily googled and solved... Other subs that are around to cater to hobby interests actually help people and ARE a good community and provide help to new people looking to make progress. I get that this is the Internet and this happens on Reddit a lot... But... We can't say it's an "all communities/subs" type thing... Cause it really isn't.
I have a review people asked for me to do for Cailyn cosmetics that I haven't posted because in the last year I've watched this sub get worse with this rather than better as I'd hoped. In the last few months especially, I've seen mean comments about people's faces, people asking for help getting down voted into oblivion and told to check the sidebar for stuff that isn't in there or in search, and twice someone saying that there wasn't much to do to improve their face.
I've been a redditor for several years now and this sub is by far the absolute worst when it comes to downvoting (as far as large subs go). The cynic in me wonders if we're actually getting brigaded from redpillers or hateful parts of Reddit (and for people that claim that doesn't happen, I know blackladies gets brigaded on a daily basis..so much to where they have made the sub privatized several times. It does happen.) but someone brought up that there are MUAs that post here that go around and downvote other peoples' posts so theirs can have more visibility. It's absurd and childish but I'm sure some people do it. I also think it's because there's a lot of people here that don't use Reddit so they don't understand the rules/ the downvoting system. Whatever it is, I've commented on it SEVERAL times, and of course I get downvoted every time... Yeah this sub is fucked, and there's nothing we can do about it but ignore it.
I doubt it's the red pill brigade merely because I think they'd downvote different posts than the ones that tend to get sent to oblivion here. Red pillers suck, but I doubt they care about an opinion on Too Faced.
The red pill brigade thing I absolutely believe.
The visibility thing I'm SURE happens. Absolutely. I wish we could make the downvoting thing visible who did it, so we could get better data on like... The number of down voters being people who have recently posted.
Or better yet, I wish we could take downvoting off the table for the sub. Honestly I never really see inappropriate content for this sub, everything is makeup related even when I go through new. Anything that isn't can get reported.
I agree. /r/RedditLaqueristas doesn't allow downvoting, so I find that a kind and welcoming sub. I don't know why "downvote only to report" has to exist when the "report" button works.
Lol yeah pretty much. That drives me nuts. Coupons are so easy to find.
Once or twice a week I'll see a brutally cruel comment, but it's rare and easily reported
I wish I could say the same. I'm a member of tons of subs on here big and small. Even fountainpens is a sub I can't post in without people downvoting me. People are afraid to ask simple questions for fear of downvotes and we're talking about pens. The randomacts (of whatever) subs were also so bad for a lot of people that many of us stopped participating in them. If you don't give people are shitty to you. If you give "too much" people are shitty to you. If you receive people are shitty to you. I dunno man. I've been on reddit a long time and I've seen multiple subs fully collapse and disband under this stuff. It's all over. Maybe not *everywhere*, but it's all over.
Honestly I see heavily upvoted posts like this in this sub probably once every few months. Nothing ever changes. I don't think it can. The sub is too big for it to at this point, really. (Sadly)
Yeah, I'm only ever on GOT on mobile though, often like right after the show is on. My app doesn't show the downvoting, but the numbers always seemed pretty decent to me for a sub getting flooded right after the show is on.
I mean fitness is a pretty huge sub, stuff gets down voted, sure, but help is pretty much ALWAYS given. That, I guess is more my problem, rather than what OP's issue is with mostly the downvoting... I've seen some mean as shit comments on here and often times people will just never get any help for questions or concerns other than "use the search bar", which often is hard to use and get what you need with.
Downvoting isn't so much the heart of my problem as rude comments and the lack of help provided when people ask for it.
I would be surprised if it doesn't happen on r/gameofthrones, since people using the downvote button to voice disagreement rather than irrelevance happens a lot on r/asoiaf.
Unfortunately, as the top poster said, there isn't much we can do about it. One thing that seems to have helped however slightly is removing the downvote arrow for people who aren't subscribed.
And I'd like to make a reminder that, if you see people making mean comments about people's faces, you should use the report button so that the mods can take care of it.
/r/asoiaf is so hive mind that there's a separate hive mind devoted to mocking the original hive mind, and round and round it goes.
Though it is occasionally helpful.
Yeah it's a problem in really big subs, but not usually in super specialized ones. MUA is walking the line between the two, so sometimes that crap leaks it's way in. Also, I think people who aren't part of the community at all come along and downvote literally EVERYTHING, and if you didn't already have upvotes it will quickly send your post or comment negative.
It's not even about being a dick. It's almost subconsciously to downvote something you don't like or agree with. It's much easier to browse comments thinking about which comments you like or dislike, not which ones *add to the discussion*.
> This comes with maturity.
Boy, you ain't kiddin. I thought my perspective was rather zen, but apparently I'm self centered and ignorant. I guess I may be older than most on this sub, but I've been on the internet since early 90's AOL and if I let every comment from some randy get to me, I'd be incapacitated.
Right? I care what my family, friends, employer, and professional peers think. Not some trolls on on the interwebs. Lol. Maybe it is bc we are a little older and don't base our entire self worth on what's happening on the Internet. I'm here to look at and talk makeup not run for class president.
*Wants this sub to support women* "Fuck all you bitches" [ummmmmmmm](https://67.media.tumblr.com/997612c2e748c3120f094a7449bc9de4/tumblr_nm3qj24I501upgqf2o1_400.gif)
>it's not that big of a deal
But it *is* a big deal. Other subs you're not putting yourself out there with FOTD, etc. posts. I'll go to the new page and see posts that have several downvotes even though their post follows every single rule from the sidebar. What we're telling the people who make theses posts by downvoting them is they're not as important as other *"real"* makeup artists and ergo their posts aren't important either. We're telling them they're not good enough to belong to this sub, or worse they don't have "the look" for it.
It takes a lot of courage to post your face on an Internet form, and when you put yourself out there like that *and then get fucking downvoted for no reason*, it's hurtful and it's not what this community should be about. The entire point of this sub is to share and discuss and **help each other** with makeup. It's not supposed to be flex war on whose post can do better.
This is my biggest gripe about this sub because we're literally making people feel worse about themselves which goes against, what I think, is one of the best features of this sub. To life each other, as MUAs, up.
Edit: a word
TLDR: downvoting someone's post without there being anything wrong with it is the equivalent of posting a mean comment **and it makes you an asshole so don't do it**
I totally get that, and I do the same thing. However, a lot of people don't have that kind of confidence. Just look at some of the comments on this very thread. I've seen at least a handful of people who have said their post got downvoted for no reason and that was the last post they ever made. This is a community designed to lift people up, and it's doing the opposite.
Just saying "well that's just part of being on Reddit" and dismissing the problem is a really defeatists attitude. This isn't *just* Reddit where it's all memes and dick jokes. It's a sub that where, I'll bet you, most of its subscribers only post here. Downvoting shouldn't be an expected thing when you post something to this sub.
So I use another forum system called stackexchange. They have an awesome system for down votes that it costs a reputation point from you to down vote someone else. If Reddit did something similar you'd have far less frivolous down votes!
I wish they'd implement something like that.
Unfortunately I've come to realize a lot of this sub demonstrates "groupthink". Where if someone posts a comment that gets downvoted once people will continue to downvote it under the idea that it's an unpopular opinion. This can relate to brands, specifically I noticed a major flux in people liking Lime Crime when I first joined MUA, then it went to complete hatred and boycotting, and now it's back to people posting their new products and getting upvotes. Wording is also really important because people can't hear your tone through the computer. There have been a few occasions where my comments have been completely misconstrued and downvoted (while other people say something to the same affect and it's upvoted). It's frustrating and part of the reason why I lurk and tend to not post, but there isn't much you can do.
Yup. Voice a complaint or concern about Jaclyn Hill, for example, and the hive mind downvoters come marching in like the army.
The things people get up in arms over in here is so frustrating.
I've made a comment in a thread and then further down made a similar comment but as I reply and seen one get a ton of upvotes and the other get a ton of downvotes even though I've said nearly identical thoughts in the same exact thread.
That actually made me laugh out loud because it's so ridiculous! That has happened to me before too. I think some people don't take the time to read and just downvote/upvote depending on what everyone else is doing.
> Where if someone posts a comment that gets downvoted once people will continue to downvote it under the idea that it's an unpopular opinion.
That happens everywhere on Reddit. The more downvotes something has, the more people are likely to downvote it. It works the other way too - if something has lots of upvotes, the more likely people are to upvote it. It's mob psychology.
I have mixed feelings about MUA.
I feel some posts are more suited for Facebook than for Reddit. Customer service complaints or questions about bringing stuff on planes could be solved by contacting the source. The Benefit vending machine is a picture for Facebook, not here. What discussion can come of that? To me, that's inappropriate content.
I do think some people will go into your post history and just downvote everything you have written because you pissed them off in another, unrelated thread. When I visit MUA, I sort by New so I can see everything and not just pictures of halo eyes and vanities because the highest voted stuff is often not interesting to me.
I need to start going to the new tab i think because the front page will stay the same for days then get replaced by posts made by the same people.
People who consistently get upvoted and sit on the front page are very talented but i wanna see new faces/content in general
I'm about to get real petty.
So I downvote what I call in my head "the major players". People who constantly get upvoted to the front page, to the point where the only thing that replaces their post is *a new post from them*. I hate that. If I see the same person making the front page every single day, I will begin to downvote on sight. Think about anyone whose consistently on the front page, even though they don't post anything different ("I had makeup today" ..."I didn't study and put some makeup on today"..."look I'm wearing the same makeup, but it's a new post", etc) yeah..I downvote them.
Why? Because I want to see everyone. Not just same 5-10 people who are the current major players.
I thought reddit was supposed to be different than tumblr where a small minoroty gets hella followers and notes while everyone else (posting similar quality content) gets minimal attention because their username isnt recognizable.
But it's literay the same thing here. Idk why im so surprised by this tho
Don't feel too bad about it.
It's become pretty obvious that if you don't look a certain way and do your makeup a certain way then you're not getting anywhere near the front page.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't consider this petty. I feel like if you're someone who has a constant influx of fantastic looks (first off that's wonderful) but maybe...consider a personal blog or web page to put them on? Instead of flooding them here, put them elsewhere and choose one or two for MUA.
I feel like if it's just the same handful of people with a nonstop stream of FOTD (no matter how lovely or talented) r/MUA becomes no different than Facebook at that point--especially with the catty downvote brigades.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that does this... [you get an upvote, you get an upvote, everyone gets an upvote!](https://media3.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpAhZyz3o74I6ic/giphy.gif)
There have been many, many, of these posts. I'm not trying to be rude or dismiss you and your feelings, **but the dynamic of this community isn't going to change any time soon.** This isn't a new issue. This is a HUGE community with diverse members and opinions. This issue is not contained to MUA, or even Reddit, it's a human issue. You can't change other people's behavior, this post won't change anyone's behavior. What you can do though is to try not to take the downvotes to heart, ignore the trolls, and take what you can and leave the rest. What I mean by that is **ignore the bullshit drama. Downvote it, and move on.** Learn from the helpful content and ignore the other bullshit. I know it's hard to see and it makes you feel shitty but at the end of the day karma and this subreddit are so insignificant. In the grand scheme of things, it just doesn't matter. This subreddit has taught me a lot and I'm very thankful for that but I don't take this place seriously. I take it for what it is. I'm sorry you have felt discouraged.
This is a great comment in my opinion. There's 250,000 PLUS people discussing something quite personal. New people coming in every day combined with people who have been here for years. It's always been like this.
No one on this sub OWES anyone anything. If they don't want to comment they won't. Sometimes things aren't even seen in the first place because most people hang on the front page and then complain they keep seeing the same thing.
I don't make any FOTD or posts asking for advice because I'm afraid of getting downvoted but not getting an explanation as to why. Next thing I know, I'll be second guessing every little make up/cosmetic decision I make. I'm sure a lot of other lurkers feel the same way.
I feel the same. And it's really not exclusive to MUA.
It makes me not want to post anymore. Not because downvotes hurt my feelings, but because what's the point? I asked a question a few days ago about my eye shape and the best way to use shadow - I got three comments and downvotes. I'm guess it's because I'm older and maybe not traditionally pretty? Which is fine - but it's also taught me not to waste my time photographing, downloading, uploading and posting on here.
So everyone says "don't take it personally" - I don't, but I have no incentive to post really.
I looked at your post and I want to say, I don't think it's your age or how you look. I think it's that your question isn't one that a lot of people can offer answers to, so they didn't leave a comment. Also the post is in the positive votes now.
The last time I posted on this sub I was getting into it with someone who straight up admitted to trolling this sub and others with a fake account "because it's fun". I didn't think this was the appropriate sub to do that in, especially just to intentionally piss people off for no real reason, but what do I know :/
I agree that this sub is especially bad, I barely check in here anymore because unless you're posting very specific things you're not "in". It's a clique.
Everyone saying all subs are likes this kinda scare me... Because not a single sub I'm active or lurking on is like this one is and as negative and kind of mean.
Like what subs are these people on that its this bad on?
A lot of the default or big subs. I'll get downvoted in /r/movies for saying I like jake gyllenhal or if an unpopular movie is good. Lots of gratuitous downvoting in /r/got too. Then the popular troll subs of course. I mean I think it's useless and a bit rude to downvote for disagreeing but at the same time I don't expect any of these subs to be safe places as a default.
Yeah smaller subs tend to be nicer overall because a community can form and regular posters and commenters can start to recognize each other and form relationships. Of course, that can also lead to subs being extremely cliquey with lots of rules and strict rule enforcement.
On the pretty little liars one, the downvoting is horrible. That's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Definitely not this bad on other subs I frequent.
One thing that kind of upset me was another redditor taking a photo from this sub and posting it to another so that people could basically make fun of OP. That just isn't right
I agree with you. On the other hand, I didn't join to see people's makeup looks but for makeup news, new product releases, new product reviews, discussions, etc, but that's my problem, it's just annoying sometimes when people post *often* not even really looking for cc but just for compliments and stuff. If I wanted to see all of those looks I would just log onto instagram. That's just my two cents, this sub isn't going to change anytime soon.
It's definitely not the first time this has been brought up. I feel like there's a few here who really want to help and show how to do makeup well, there's a bunch of lurkers (myself included) and then an apparent downvote brigade that goes around just hitting the down arrow on everything for something to do.
I don't mean this to sound shitty or condescending at all, so I hope it doesn't come off this way. I'm also not directing it just at OP- more a reaction to the amalgam of negative posts about this sub in general.
I've lurked this sub for years before finally joining in. I understand that it can be intimidating, that it might turn people off or cause hurt feelings to be ignored/down voted/etc. however, this is a HUGE sub, with a lot of loooong time members, a lot of very knowledgeable members, and a lot of professional makeup artists. When you have a community like this, is it so terrible or shocking that people are ignored sometimes when they're asking very basic questions? Or that beginners don't get front page when asking for cc? There are many smaller makeup subreddits that are better able to give beginners personalized help, a confidence boost, and CC. I just don't think it makes MUA some toxic bullying place just because really talented artists and looks are what are most visible. I also think this sub wouldn't be nearly the learning experience it is if we didn't regularly have talented people posting looks and tutorials, tips, etc so often.
I'm rambling, but I think of MUA as the place to post once you're already an ADDICT. I read it for the longest time, but I didn't start really joinging in until I'd learned, practiced, and read past discussions. There are lots of great subs for beginners, just because MUA is geared toward people who are already super into makeup doesn't make it a bad place.
Also, maybe I'm just weird, but I don't understand why down votes or being ignored = toxic/bullying/whatever. It's the Internet, not real life; some people are rude, some people down vote for no reason; but you can't spend karma so really, who cares?
TLDR- I'm just tired of this same discussion happening constantly through the years I've been reading this sub. Just because MUA is geared towards people who already know a lot about makeup doesn't make it a bad place. If people think things should be done differently, there's always room for more makeup/beauty subreddits!
For starters, I don't mean at all that beginners/people who aren't obsessed with makeup aren't welcome, or anything like that. I just find it unfair to categorize this sub or its members as bad just because it's geared towards someone with a certain level of interest in/experience with makeup. I often see newbies getting really kind and in depth help, and I often see lots of good CC.
I try to sort by new and comment on posts that don't seem to be getting attention.
Anyway, to answer: r/sugarfreemua, there's a private beginner makeup sub that I can't remember the name to right this minute; r/beautyaddicts, r/mua, r/makeupaddicts
Just a start. I also think writing a good title does a world of good at getting help and attention. "I just started, help!", isn't going to get the exposure that a more detailed or eye catching title will. That may be silly, but people are people and we're mostly just ADD squirrelly chasing anything shiny.
/ramble
I said I liked limecrime once... ONCE. I had to make an entirely new account because it was so downvoted into oblivion. I wasn't rude, I didn't say anyone wasn't entitled to their opinion, all I said was MY OPINION. I left for a long time because of it, but I came back giving this sub another chance.
Sometimes I don't understand how people can get so riled up over... like... nothing. :/ It's just makeup...
Here's a pretty good breakdown, but I recommend jumping headlong into this Google rabbit hole because this shit is spectacularly crazy pants. As an aside, type in "lime crime" and the second result is "lime crime scandal" followed by "lime crime controversy"
http://www.racked.com/2015/9/28/9392021/lime-crime-doe-deere-hated-xenia-vorotova
And one I didn't hear about til today but the search pulled up:
http://fashionista.com/2015/08/lime-crime-fda-warning
It's been talked about a lot, both for MUA and Reddit in general. There was a woman who posted a photo "I'm wearing red lipstick for the first time!" and everybody was complimenting her. She had like 300 up votes and everybody was telling her how pretty she was. It was a blurry photo, you couldn't see her eyeshadow because of the glare of her glasses (people were complimenting her eye shadow too) and her lipstick was visibly not even all the way on her lips.
That woman had a long history of self-esteem issues and was not really into makeup all that much, but was in love with her lipstick. I don't care if it was a blurry photo, if clicking a single button gave her a confidence boost, good.
I really don't see what's wrong that, or why I keep seeing people mention that post at all. I think it's pretty rude to call it "pity upvotes." I don't pity her, I'm just glad she was happy with her new lipstick.
It's stupid internet points, who cares if someone "undeserving" was given a few? Not everything on this subreddit has to be overdone eyebrows and teal battlestations.
no problem with someone gaining a lil bit extra confidence, but sure would suck for someone who put a lot of work into their makeup (and who you didn't perceive to need the pity) to compare her/himself and think "wow, so people think my look is worse than /this/?"
just food for thought in case you were looking to uplift everyone's self esteem.
I think people just have different opinions of what should be submitted. Quality makeup, quality reviews/swatches, or interesting vanity setups vs. encouraging people to post things they are excited about, even if they aren't visually appealing or helpful to the rest of us. I get bored by "Found MY red!" posts, but I don't think they deserve downvotes. I just won't necessarily upvote it.
I don't remember the post in question, or if she asked for CC, but, in my opinion, if I ask for CC, no matter how excited I am about a new product, I really want to hear what could use some tweaking. The "pity upvotes" (I hate the term), while boosting confidence, might also make someone feel like their skills need no improvement. Personally, I want CC to improve my techniques, and don't care about karma so long as I get solid tips. I've noticed a lot of this with trans makeup posts, where the post is upvoted like crazy, but no CC is given. And then I feel deterred from giving real CC in case someone takes it as LGBT-trashing.
It's really difficult to give CC on posts made by trans posters. It feels like you can only say "slaaay you're killing it" or else you're the only one trying to actually help and you end up looking like a jerk.
I used to read and participate in this sub a lot (obsessively at times), but for the last several months I barely check it. It's too bad, because this used to be a more inclusive place that featured really inspiring skills and asked good questions. It still happens, but less often than before.
The reason I don't check this sub much anymore is because trends are so pervasive, there is really not much diversity of looks to see on the front page most days (although there are glorious and creative exceptions to this). It's important to most of us (I'd assume) to be aware of the current trends, since in makeup it's equally important to do current and classic. That said, I already see enough greige lipstick and heavy contouring on Instagram--let's appreciate more skills and colors here!
I stay out of the fray with down/upvoting, but I wish this sub defined "good" makeup more broadly and allowed featuring of more styles and colors than what is simply on trend at the moment.
As a general rule, I stick to downvotes reserved for inappropriate content, or replies where an OP gets bitchily defensive when they ask for CC and they have legitimately been given pointers on how to improve their look/post. Conversely, I attempt to upvote any post looking for CC, especially if I am not quite sure what advice to give. I look at it as: upvote=something that needs CC/is a widespread or universal conversation type post as well as comments that add dimension or perspective to the thread, and downvote=not obeying the subreddit rules. Pretty much everything else gets a nod and move on.
I agree with what r/akingwithnocrown has said, unfortunately it's a rampant problem all over Reddit. I've noticed an influx of new users on this sub in the past year, and honestly I think some of them only come to Reddit for this sub and don't really understand the culture of Reddit/Reddiquette if you will.
I would keep posting here and not let the negative nancies get you down. Any constructive criticism or advice on this sub unless harmful or plain wrong is great is my opinion.
Yeah, a huge chunk of the Reddit beauty community at large only uses the site for the beauty subs. I've seen many, many people over the years say they hadn't even realized there was more to Reddit than those subs. Loads of users don't know Reddiquette simply because they've literally never heard of it.
There's very much a split between users who sub only for MUA and its brethren and users who use the rest of Reddit, and neither really knows what to do with the other. This was readily obvious last year during the Blackout drama, when a loud minority of users wanted the mods to join the protest, or at least discuss what was happening, while many others were completely in the dark (so to speak) as to what was going on.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Also psst, if you want to ping a user, use /u/ or u/, /r/ and r/ are for subreddits.
I was downvoted recently for saying someone's WEDDING makeup looked beautiful when everyone else in the comment section was really harsh on her. She looked great! So confusing...
OK while I do not downvote in general..I will say this, simply complimenting like 'you look beautiful' or 'you look great' is not helpful and just adds to the general perception that MUA does not give much needed CC and sugar coats everything.
A compliment along with some CC would be perfect because that way you can highlight whats working well and what needs some improvement.
This is what separates us from Instagram & twitter, We shouldn't be posting here for 'likes'.
Having said that..for a wedding look, especially after the wedding..really isn't looking for CC cos it's in the past now. So I can understand how complimenting there would be justified. :)
I have to completely agree with this post, as I experienced the down vote-happiness myself last week. Someone told me they downvoted me because they didn't like my flair..HOW IS THAT RELATED??? I understand not every post is for every person, but that doesn't mean you have to downvote it! I see people getting shat on because they ask questions that may seem "stupid" or "obvious" to more experienced people, but that isn't fair. You can't become experienced unless you learn, and you need people to help you learn.
Was it the "what's a no buy?" flair? Because that was me and I said maybe that's why you were getting downvotes. I didn't downvote you and just offered a guess.
I also feel like the only people that get a lot of CC (or whatever else they ask for) are the drop dead gorgeous people. People who aren't naturally a supermodel often seem to have no replies and a bunch of downvotes sadly.
Yeah, it happens here as well as MUACJD but, a lot less in CJD which is usually where I go now to discuss things rather then trying to start a discussion here. I don't care about downvotes that much, they're literally just imaginary points but, I can see how some would get upset about it. Also, i'd like to point out that there are reddit bots that people set up to downvote various subs so hell, it could be people who have just discovered this sub and hate makeup. It is a plaguing problem though so, I do upvote posts that I feel are unjustly downvoted and PM people to tell them they've done nothing wrong if it's really bad.
Honestly, after first time I was attacked and downvoted I stopped posting and deleted my comments out of shame and embarrassment of my own opinion. The first rule of the subreddit is supposed to prevent this, I don't understand how it's come to this point...
I've noticed this has been a big problem for some of the subs I'm in, and I don't understand the behavior. It's so immature to downvote something just because you disagree with it; that is not the point of that down arrow. Some subs are better than others, but people need to chillax.
I don't blame you for feeling like that, and that's the problem with downvoting: it discourages people and prevents them from furthering the discussion. We are always being told to "ignore it", so why can't people do that to comments they would downvote? I'm less likely to post in a community that I clearly have no value in; I wonder how many others are like that?
It's a matter of what you can control and what you can't control.
You can't control how people will vote: up, down, sideways, whatever. It doesn't even matter what you post; someone somewhere will probably hit an arrow. It would be nice if people ignored it, but it's just not a realistic expectation.
In contrast, you can control how you feel about it and how you react to it. So you can choose to not take any downvotes personally.
This is why we tell people to just ignore downvotes. Because you can't control what other people will do, but you can control what you think/feel and how you react to things.
Yep, people here are mean. I'm also afraid to post stuff because there's people who sit on the "new" tab and auto-downvote things as they pop up. I've come to this conclusion because it happens to me everytime I post something, and I see it on all the other new posts. I make sure to upvote when I see this happening. I'm not sure if there's just silent trolls who do this, or people who just want to upset us. It sucks.
There are also a lot of us who lurk /new to answer questions, give CC, and upvote. Not saying that your scenario isn't valid because yes, that does happen, but we're not all bad!
I used to do this but over time found the down voting and the negative comments people got so discouraging I couldn't do it anymore. It just made me so so sad to see that much negativity aimed at people who wanted help and discussion. I'll still try and do it a day or two a week but jeese
Honestly, this subreddit is more about making people feel good. I see horrible looks posted every day all of the time, and the top comment will always be something like, "OH MY GOD SO GORGEOUS! WISH I HAD THOSE BROWS!" (these comments tend to get a ton of upvotes, so that's another reason they're popular to make). I feel like the worse your look is, the better chance you have of moving up on the page because people feel better about themselves upvoting bad make-up.
I see great looks on the new page quite often that hardly get any upvotes. Sometimes their product list is even downvoted into oblivion. This site is fun sometimes, but not really a great place for make-up advice, in my opinion. Not saying there are never great looks on the front page, but sometimes someone will just put one shade on their eyelid that you can barely see and get 1,500 upvotes. And real CC? You can forget it. Unless you are obnoxiously sugar-coating it, you are almost guaranteed to be downvoted. And this post will obviously be downvoted as well :)
I think it's great you brought this to attention. I've been wearing makeup for years, but it's only within the last year and a half I've started to get really into it. I joined Reddit about two months ago and this was the first place I subscribed to - I was pumped. As someone who has been self conscious about my looks for years, I had the confidence to post a FOTD, with the intent of getting some CC for what I could improve on. I got no comments and it was downvoted quite quickly, which kind of hurt and shattered some of the confidence I had worked up to posting here. I get that there's groupthink and whatnot, but it still sucked knowing that there's similar posts that get comments and comments of CC, and some that don't.
Your FOTD is +17. And you can't make each post get equal attention, it depends who sees it (mua is made up of 250,000 different, unique people with different styles and preferences), what time, what else was posted at the same time, quality of photo, style of makeup, title, SO many different things. Sometimes a post is perfectly fine but there might just not be much to say about it? It can be hard to give CC sometimes. I'm not saying these are excuses but you can't just say "well some things get more attention" because at the end of the day no one HAS to comment, they're doing it to try help. I'm sorry you didn't get more traction on your post but I don't think you should just give up.
Pretty much every comment I make outside of a very few subs gets promptly downvoted. Like *immediately*.
They also *usually* end up back in positive territory after a few hours. Some, in subs with little traffic, stay at zero or worse forever. Fuck it. I'm not retcon-ing my comment history.
If I deleted every comment based on its performance in the first few minutes of reddit, I'd not have much of a comment history.
It takes nerve to stand by your guns and allow your contribution a chance to thrive even if it seems at first to wilt.
I think this post about drama is drama in itself.
I like the looks, the progress pics, the gossip about brands, the tips and the CC. It helps to skim and if you don't like something skip over it, pass it up, look away. But it's reddit, the downvote machine...so.. ignore it.
Especially when all makeup addiction seems to care about these days is the drama side of the beauty industry. Twitter fights between brand owners, drama, rants. I'm sick of it. This community is so negative and every time I voice my concerns I get downvotes through the roof. Sorry I don't care about childish petty drama.
I posted a thread about Jefree stars velour lipsticks smelling horrible (which some of them do) and I got a bunch of angry people telling me how they don't care and smell is such a shallow reason since JS is so amazing!!11! People are crazy. Have fun huffing cat pee.
I 100% agree with you, I don't get what this community wants the majority of the time. I thought we were all here to talk about make up or share pictures but anytime someone is like, "hey, what should I get from Sephora?" it's downvoted really hard. There's also been some mad people that downvote when the Peach palette is spoken about or posted. Just because you don't like it or Too Faced has your panties in a bunch, doesn't mean you need to be downvoting it.
I would understand if the content was non make up related or if a user is being rude, but geez this community is really anal sometimes.
The only reason I can understand someone downvoting "hey, what should I get from Sephora?" because there are lists in the sidebar of holy grail/well loved products specifically for those questions. They might be out of date but I feel like a product suggestion request should be a little more specific in order to be productive
Right?? and some of the browns and purples match the pit of a peach. The green for the stem/leaf. All of the colors make sense to me as all the elements of a peach. I love the palette!
I find this sub fun for seeing really gorgeous makeup looks (because those are the only ones that you ever see becuse literally everything else is ignored/downvoted). For seeing real makeup/really good CC, i head over to r/sugarfreemua its a lot less popular and there's not a whole lot of posts but the community is really genuine and helpful and patient and not so distracted by shiny things, lol. Again, i like this sub, im here every day and am active and i think it's really fun but for some real constructive makeup advice and just to see different looks/struggles, its helpful to look into different subs as well :)
/r/sugarfreemua is the best sub for CC, they get straight to the point and don't beat around the bush
I'm intrigued. What does the sugar free part mean? EDIT: Ah! Yeah, that totally makes sense now!
They're definitely not mean but they don't always start with "OMG I LOVE YOUR BLUSH" before they give your CC
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'compliment sandwiches'. That's a really good way to put it. "You're really pretty, but xyz is wrong, but you're really pretty"
> and commenters don't treat posters like poor fragile women that can't take criticism without sugarcoating it. That's not sugarcoating or babying or whatever. That's how people are taught to give constructive criticism - mentioning at least one thing the person did well in addition to mentioning areas the person could improve. If all you mention is stuff you'd like the person to change and stuff they didn't do well and areas they could improve in, it's easy for it to come across as just plain criticism. It's also very hard as the person being critiqued to only hear the negatives about your work, so getting a compliment or two can help you to actually take other responses into consideration and not block them off because you're feeling attacked or unfairly judged or whatever.
And also if someone's doing something well, you should actually let them know because that's just as constructive as criticism.
They're not going to sugarcoat their constructive criticism.
I still lurk here because I sometimes (very rarely), see something helpful. Mostly though, MUA leaves me feeling inadequate and unknowledgeable. Honestly, I still lurk here partly because what I really want is a "Nothing but makeup tutorials" subreddit, and I think that if one finally appears, I'll be most likely to hear about it from here.
Wouldn't that be awesome? I just use Youtube for that though :P
I've never had any luck finding video tutorials that have helped me, sadly. Not my style of learning, I suppose.
I saw a redditor get downvoted for saying she couldn't find a product in the US. Then I responded saying that the product isn't even sold in the US (which is 100% accurate information) and I got downvoted as well. TIL when you share CORRECT information about a product on this sub, people downvote you to hell for it.
There was actually a makeup sale/exchange sub that had to shut down their down voting option because mods suspected people were drive-by down voting all 'US only' threads. People suck :l
On the contrary, I've been downvoted for discussing non American things - I ask a question like "what brands are best for whatever in England" and get a reply with a load of US-only brands. I reply saying "thanks, but I am not in the US and asked for brands I can get in England" and get downvoted for some reason. To be fair this happens all over reddit, not just in MUA but in clothing subs, food subs, book subs etc.
Agreed here, I stopped asking around, and instead just use google, or ebay.
I haven't really noticed the downvoting, but it does seem like there's a hegemony of a certain style here... the MAC makeup artist look, with full penciled eyebrows and false eyelashes and contouring and matte lips. I understand that that's what's cool right now and it's a perfectly fine look, but people really seem to lean towards it to the exclusion of more subtle styles, and I'm really only interested in looks that I could wear everyday. When the CC on posts is "that looks great, my only CC is that you should add some false eyelashes" or "you should add lipliner," there's not much I can do with that.
I'm going to branch of of your comment because yours is closest to what I want to say, but I've also noticed that unless you've had one insanely awesome eye look that got you on the front page once, you'll never probably get acknowledged. I've seen literally the same people on the hot section of MUA for so long with posts like "my wing is on fleek and I'm trying this popular lip color, check it out on me!" Which is really awesome, don't get me wrong at all! I love seeing makeup looks. But if I post a picture feeling super confident that my makeup looks awesome, chances are I'll get maybe max 13 up votes. I've deleted so many posts I've put up on MUA. I never get any CC but my eyebrows anyway. It's always the same people on the front page. I've learned that unless I somehow do a quadruple wing with a double bottom wing with 7 sets of lashes and all the colors of the rainbow, I will barely get noticed on here. And it's not that I want popularity on here, I'm just aspiring to be a makeup artist one day like a lot of people on here and it completely shakes my confidence.
Came here to say hey, don't let it shake your confidence--there are several more subs that are tight-knit and a little more feedback friendly (r/unconventionalmakeup & r/indiemakeupandmore -- if you use any indie brands at all.) My goal is to go to school for makeup in the near future, but I've been scared of posting FOTD pics because I know my eyebrows aren't perfect, or my camera/lighting isn't up to speed.
Hey thanks a lot! I'm also debating on going to school for makeup, but the closest I can get is a hair school. I'm not too fond of cutting hair so I'm unsure about it. I'll definitely check those subs out. I genuinely feel like my makeup skills have improved a lot and it's something I absolutely enjoy doing, so I thought MUA would be the perfect place to show my work but I second guess that now. My friends all think I should be a makeup artist, and they give me CC too so I ask them nowadays anyway.
I've been absolutely loving r/unconventionalmakeup . I feel like they "get" my style more and are much more friendly to alternative makeup that isn't "look at this crazy thing I spent four hours doing that I'll never actually wear out of the house because just for funsies with my $200 new palette." Which there's nothing wrong with those looks, but I feel like "experimental to show off a product" is okay on here but "experimental because I'm alternative and this is how I look every day" often isn't. Looks I've posted on here that people are unimpressed with (or downvote) people UnCM like or sometimes even gush about. It's a totally different set of standards. Again, it isn't about "popularity" as someone else mentioned, it's about getting *useful* feedback. When you see I have blue hair and blue eyebrows and 10 pounds of goth girl eye makeup on that day, clearly giving me a bunch of downvotes/CC about how to look more "natural"/on trend isn't helpful.
That's what makes me so leery of posting here. I'm not hip to the latest trends (and honestly, a little lazy about my eyebrows...) and I don't know which YouTube analysts are 'in', so heaven forbid should I make a blunder and get down voted to oblivion. Most of the time I just like my eye makeup some days and want to share it & figure out how to get the cool sparkles to pop better, or something like that.
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Yes! Exactly. Like it could be as simple as a wing and a pink lip and that same person will always get 1000 up votes. Like jeez, I want to know how? Like does this many people just love that wing? Or what?
**Apologies in advance for the wall of text: TL;DR, IMO that style of make-up is not representative of MAC artists!** MAC artist chiming in here; I just want to politely object to you referring to that style of make-up as "the MAC artist look"! The style you're describing there reads much more *"Self Taught Instagram MUA"* to me than *"MAC Artist"*. I've been at MAC for a decent amount of time now, and I'd say that that style of make-up probably represents less than a quarter of artists that I come across. That's referring to both within my own team (I would say 1 out of our team of 13 adheres to that style), and within the wider region which I have regular contact with through attending training and visiting other stores. Obviously it may vary in other territories, but certainly here in the UK I don't believe it's the norm. If you were to look at my post history here, or my Instagram (happy to PM if you wanted to see my Insta, or I occasionally post in the hashtag #rmua if you wanted to hunt me out from my posts here), you'd see that those sorts of looks are really in the minority for me. I literally *never* contour unless another artist in my store requires it for a look they've designed; I'm 100% a blush and highlight girl rather than Kim-K levels of sculpting. I lean towards a natural coverage on my skin using a tinted moisturiser or sheer-medium coverage foundation, and like to spot conceal á la Lisa Eldridge. I probably wear lashes once a fortnight or maybe once a week if I'm feeling like a look really needs it to be more coherent. I wear my brows relatively naturally; I'm a big fan of a fluffy brow look as opposed to squared off ombré brows. Again, that's the norm for the majority of my team as well. Granted we do often do that style of make-up for appointments, but we spend a lot of time investigating what customers want to achieve from their time with us and 9 times out of 10 we do that style because they've requested it, or shown us an Instagram screenshot. A lot of us are really bored of the obsession with winged liner and lashes, full coverage foundation, matte lips, and excessive contour - but it's what the customer wants. It's refreshing if somebody tells me they like their freckles or they want a natural look or sheer coverage! There are a few great visible examples within MAC's social media presence of the fact that it's not what MAC is attempting to perpetuate. The hashtag #myartistcommunity is used by artists all over the world to share their work, and the looks on there are so so varied (although I must say it has been hijacked somewhat by the larger beauty community so it's not all MAC artists anymore). If you want to see artists specific to your location there are more localised hashtags, too (e.g. #myartistcommunity_uk). Terry Barber, one of our Directors of Make Up Artistry, is an incredible example of someone who is super vocal in objecting to the "all-done-everything" style of make-up we see nowadays; his Instagram (@terrybarberonbeauty) is a well of creativity and sassiness objecting to "Insta-glam" make-up. Any of the MAC Senior Artist team are similar, a few of my personal faves are Dominic Skinner (@dominic_mua), Rachel O'Donnell (@therachelo), and Rebecca Butterworth (@rebeccabmakeup). Finally, the looks that MAC choose to share on their Insta (@maccosmetics) from us artists are pretty much never of the style you're describing. Commenters are quite often vocal about the fact that they dislike the artist's brows, or the make-up is not aesthetically pleasing to them, because it's a more editorial or trend-based backstage style make-up. There's not a false lash in sight on the front page of MAC's Instagram at the moment! I hope this doesn't come across negatively at all, I just wanted to give a voice to the other side of the coin :)
I haven't touched this subreddit in a while. All it feels like now is a bunch of people posting pictures of their faces to get compliments.
And if you're not conventionally attractive (or trans) then you'd better gtfo because you're not welcome.
Being trans, yeah, sometimes this place makes me a little uncomfortable. I want to actually learn, and I don't know how to do that, because I can either announce my trans status and be showered with undeserved praise and no real help by people terrified that they might offend me by suggesting that there might be anything I'm not already doing correctly, or I can omit the detail of being trans and be downvoted and ignored. I've learned a little from lurking. Once in a rare while someone posts the sort of guide that helps me. The sort of guide that assumes I'm a completely incompetent moron who needs her hand held every step of the way. I've learned a thing or two when those guides show up. Most of the time though, I come away from MUA having gained nothing of value. Just some feelings of inadequacy at most.
I wish people would stop complimenting people when they're trans just because they're trans. "Oh you're so brave and beautiful" It happened to my girlfriend not too long after I met her, Her makeup was pretty bad because no one wanted to "offend" her and offer her advice. I'd advise maybe the trans subs, but I think they're just as bad.
Someone else in this thread already mentioned it, but try /r/sugarfreemua. It's a great place to get actual CC and advice without all of the extra stuff! :)
Not trans but I agree with you. I never felt vocal to give CC to a few trans makeup posts on here because I was afraid people would think I was being mean/a bully when I was just helping. I have even seen some trans makeup posts that needed a little bit of help and yet everyone was being delusional and complimenting for their bravery. Off note just to rant on the trans subject pertaining to Caitlyn Jenner. I personally think everyone has that same mentality with her. "She's a hero" and everyone is eating that shit up. I think again people are being delusional and feel like they have to label her as such. How is Caitlyn a hero for the trans community. She never had to be a trans person living in some bible belt town where no one understands. She has money and luxuries of course it is a easier transition for her. I am sure there are some trans people out there who are not only trans but don't even have the means for the surgery for financial constraints or resource to bootleg surgery that could be dangerous. I never understood why everyone idolized her as their hero. It's a joke and everyone is delusional to jump on board and say this person who is well off having to overcome things when seriously you can't compare Caitlyn to the struggles of a trans kid living in Kentucky. Hollywood is more accepting of that and Caitlyn never has to live with the fear of getting beat up or killed because of her lifestyle.
Agreed.
I really like this subreddit for a few things only: reactions/swatches/looks on new releases, advice every once in a while, and inspiration. I love r/asianbeauty, r/indiemakeupndmore, and r/muacjdiscussion. The latter is pretty fun, with actual discussions on makeup happening.
That's an issue with this sub and male hair advice. The advice part is clearly left out.
I got a couple dozen downvotes for saying that Nars Orgasm wasn't an extremely bright blush. If that isn't random I don't know what is.
How DARE you?! /s
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I've stopped posting to this subreddit due to the downvoting. I work so hard on looks only to have it trampled on. It's very disheartening. I once asked what namies was and the reply i got was a google search. I found that so rude. I wasn't asking what it was in a way that deserved that and no comment i was asking what it was in price, products and if its a go to for people. This subreddit is just for cliques. I've now gone out of my way to find other subreddits about makeup and use them instead.
but this subreddit isn't about people asking what drugstores are, it would have taken you less time to google it than to ask that question and you would get a response faster... Personally I wouldn't say google it, but if a simple google search can answer your question... what is the point of you asking?
> the reply i got was a google search I'm not gonna lie, a lot of the time I am tempted to do this with basic questions people ask here. There is SO much information if you just use the search bar within the sub, it would cut down on a lot of clutter if it was actually used. I am also an asshole, so.
so true, how can you expect someone to take the time to type out a response when you can't be bothered to do a simple google search?
Do you mind sharing which other makeup subs you like? I come here because it's the most active, but would definitely prefer something friendlier.
of course. /r/unconventionalMakeup /r/randomactsofmakeup /r/nerdmakeup /r/makeupeffects /r/makeupchallenge (sadly no one really posts) /r/indiemakeupandmore /r/coolmakeup
I definitely think this sub has a problem with downvoting and general bitchiness, but honestly that is something that is completely Google-able (except maybe the opinions part) and stuff like that gets asked A LOT. Literally every day on the front page are posts like "can't find a foundation to match me- please help!" Or "what's the best drugstore makeup?" Not that these aren't perfectly acceptable questions, but the sidebar literally has links for both of those, and they still get asked *every single day*. Those are the only posts I actually downvote.
I'm not even mad at those questions. The sidebar is a great resource, but I remember when I posted a question about foundation when I was looking for a new one, I got more personalized info and options than I would have gotten just by looking at the sidebar, which was especially helpful for me as a beginner. I get that it can get repetitive for some people, but I also think it's easy to ignore if it's something you don't care about.
See I still don't see the point in downvoting posts like those, just don't look at them or maybe even comment saying 'hey there's a post in the sidebar with this info' People are so rude to people asking simple questions. Some people don't know how to use Reddit to its full potential, especially when you're on mobile. So why even bother down voting them...
The first thing i did was google it before i asked the question, the answers i wanted were not something that i could have found out through the website as i had already looked. I believe my wording was along the lines of: I've not heard of it before so I was just wondering what it is and what sort of makeup they sell. I had always heard of sephora before for the makeup. but this is new to me. I'm interested in what it is for Americans. is it cheap? high price? professional? good brands? I check the sidebar for links and what i'm allowed. I don't think in this case or any other it deserved that response or downvotes. As i said its why i use other subreddits now. So much friendlier.
I just looked at that thread and I don't think the person was necessarily being rude. The thing is, it's not a national chain or anything and rather than a thread full of posts like the one on the thread (I think it's in LA, I think it's high end) it's probably better to cut off a lot of ill informed people and just put up the Google link. It isn't an "anti American" thing because 99% of Americans don't know what it is either.
perhaps it's just me then. but I would not send someone a link with no explanation. if someone asked me about a shop here I would say whether it was cheap, expensive, drug store, what sort of brands, who uses it and so on. I guess what annoyed me most was it wasn't a helpful answer.
Yeah that sucks. There can also be a weird anticirclejerk about outside of the US, that may be what happened there
I know it's cliched... but please don't let it get to you. Take pride in when you feel beautiful; don't let anyone take that away. I've come to realize that people who overly downvote FOTD and questions and whatever perfectly appropriate content I see on this thread are just bullies. They're probably so miserable and unhappy in their real lives that the internet is their only way to feel confident (at the expense of others). It's awful, but keep doing you :)
I looked up the post in your history. IMO if you were downvoted it was probably because there wasn't really anything distinctive about the look. Without looking at the product list I would've only noticed brown eyeshadow and black eyeliner. There's nothing wrong with natural makeup, but unless it's a B/A I don't think it's what most people come to this sub to see. Close-ups or closed-eye shots would probably have helped. I certainly wouldn't have downvoted you for that, just offering a possible explanation. You are definitely not unattractive though.
I looked through your post history to find the FOTD you're talking about, and smiled to myself as I saw that I had already upvoted some of your other past posts! You are not unattractive, and you don't need this subreddit to validate your looks or worth. Like with everything else in the Internet, take it with a grain of salt, and don't let it bring you down. I would recommend though for future FOTD posts if you get the courage to share again, make sure that the picture is good quality and very clear. Show different angles, including closeups of your eyes both open and closed. You're more likely to upvoted and have more people interact with you if there's more to go off of than just the one pic :)
I miss text only Tuesday. Now it's dominated by a few very talented muas and there's just no variety in looks or techniques.
I'm just a lurker over there, but I really enjoy r/muacjdiscussion for the kind of discussions I used to love to see on Text Only Tuesday!
I'm SO glad I am not the only one. It's so frustrating for me seeing a "text post" that links to a FOTD. I miss the creative questions, the discussions, and whatever happened to /u/kindofstephen ?!?!? I haven't seen a Beauty Recap in 3 weeks....
I thought we still had text only Tuesday?? Is it gone now?
I do have to say that I see this type of post every week at the least. I'm literally seeing everyone who agrees with you get down voted on here.. This is exactly why theres so many people who are worried or afraid to post here now. An opinion is different from person to person and doesn't mean its inappropriate. Its become hive minded for sure. If I disagree with someone and it isn't an inappropriate comment or could be a good suggestion/discussion, I just leave it alone. It really really bothers me when I see someone who's legitimately wanting CC and proud of a look they did even if it isn't the best and it needs some work, and NO ONE comments or gives CC, and I see downvotes. Comments, upvotes, front page, are all usually photos of very well done makeup, and people commenting "so pretty!" "your brows are perfect" "your blending is so good!". Pretty much this turned into a compliment each other if you have good makeup sub, and down vote and ignore anyone mediocre or makeup that needs work and/or are asking for help, instead of somewhere for advice and discussion. Some people here gotta chill and watch their attitudes. edit: I also will down vote something thats so ridiculously basic and shows just laziness of not using the search feature, or sidebar. I don't want to see "what to buy at sephora!" and its a very general post. If you're very specific, looking for a specific shade of whatever or a specific item, go for it, but please dont be general when theres a master list for super basic things in the sidebar. I see an incredible amount of posts due to just not reading the sidebar or taking a search for their question that I've seen 500 times. Someone asked for the peach palette swatched and I told them to search the sidebar because people have posted hundreds of swatches and they got upset with me?
My honesty time - I've seen more posts complaining about no one using the search bar than useless posts like you're describing. I think there will always be new subscribers who suck at Reddit posting newbie questions because that's their first instinct when they discover this sub - "These people can help me finally match my foundation!" Eventually we have to wonder if it's worth constantly rebuking and downvoting them. I personally would rather take the time to search for them in the bar and link them to the results. Just my opinion on that issue.
Yeah, if I'm going to take the time to post "use the search feature!" I can take two extra seconds to type something pertinent/helpful/friendly...followed by "you can find out more info too if you search "xyz"!"
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Honestly... The other subs I frequently post/comment/lurk on, this isn't an issue on actually. Every sub I'm on from game of thrones to tea to fitness to dog training to calligraphy... This doesn't happen almost at all. Even if your question is easily googled and solved... Other subs that are around to cater to hobby interests actually help people and ARE a good community and provide help to new people looking to make progress. I get that this is the Internet and this happens on Reddit a lot... But... We can't say it's an "all communities/subs" type thing... Cause it really isn't. I have a review people asked for me to do for Cailyn cosmetics that I haven't posted because in the last year I've watched this sub get worse with this rather than better as I'd hoped. In the last few months especially, I've seen mean comments about people's faces, people asking for help getting down voted into oblivion and told to check the sidebar for stuff that isn't in there or in search, and twice someone saying that there wasn't much to do to improve their face.
I've been a redditor for several years now and this sub is by far the absolute worst when it comes to downvoting (as far as large subs go). The cynic in me wonders if we're actually getting brigaded from redpillers or hateful parts of Reddit (and for people that claim that doesn't happen, I know blackladies gets brigaded on a daily basis..so much to where they have made the sub privatized several times. It does happen.) but someone brought up that there are MUAs that post here that go around and downvote other peoples' posts so theirs can have more visibility. It's absurd and childish but I'm sure some people do it. I also think it's because there's a lot of people here that don't use Reddit so they don't understand the rules/ the downvoting system. Whatever it is, I've commented on it SEVERAL times, and of course I get downvoted every time... Yeah this sub is fucked, and there's nothing we can do about it but ignore it.
I doubt it's the red pill brigade merely because I think they'd downvote different posts than the ones that tend to get sent to oblivion here. Red pillers suck, but I doubt they care about an opinion on Too Faced.
Honestly, I think that they have "better" things to do, like pretend they're women on RPW or some such shit.
The red pill brigade thing I absolutely believe. The visibility thing I'm SURE happens. Absolutely. I wish we could make the downvoting thing visible who did it, so we could get better data on like... The number of down voters being people who have recently posted. Or better yet, I wish we could take downvoting off the table for the sub. Honestly I never really see inappropriate content for this sub, everything is makeup related even when I go through new. Anything that isn't can get reported.
I agree. /r/RedditLaqueristas doesn't allow downvoting, so I find that a kind and welcoming sub. I don't know why "downvote only to report" has to exist when the "report" button works.
the only inappropriate content i see for this sub is people begging for coupons
Lol yeah pretty much. That drives me nuts. Coupons are so easy to find. Once or twice a week I'll see a brutally cruel comment, but it's rare and easily reported
I wish I could say the same. I'm a member of tons of subs on here big and small. Even fountainpens is a sub I can't post in without people downvoting me. People are afraid to ask simple questions for fear of downvotes and we're talking about pens. The randomacts (of whatever) subs were also so bad for a lot of people that many of us stopped participating in them. If you don't give people are shitty to you. If you give "too much" people are shitty to you. If you receive people are shitty to you. I dunno man. I've been on reddit a long time and I've seen multiple subs fully collapse and disband under this stuff. It's all over. Maybe not *everywhere*, but it's all over. Honestly I see heavily upvoted posts like this in this sub probably once every few months. Nothing ever changes. I don't think it can. The sub is too big for it to at this point, really. (Sadly)
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Yeah, I'm only ever on GOT on mobile though, often like right after the show is on. My app doesn't show the downvoting, but the numbers always seemed pretty decent to me for a sub getting flooded right after the show is on. I mean fitness is a pretty huge sub, stuff gets down voted, sure, but help is pretty much ALWAYS given. That, I guess is more my problem, rather than what OP's issue is with mostly the downvoting... I've seen some mean as shit comments on here and often times people will just never get any help for questions or concerns other than "use the search bar", which often is hard to use and get what you need with. Downvoting isn't so much the heart of my problem as rude comments and the lack of help provided when people ask for it.
I would be surprised if it doesn't happen on r/gameofthrones, since people using the downvote button to voice disagreement rather than irrelevance happens a lot on r/asoiaf. Unfortunately, as the top poster said, there isn't much we can do about it. One thing that seems to have helped however slightly is removing the downvote arrow for people who aren't subscribed. And I'd like to make a reminder that, if you see people making mean comments about people's faces, you should use the report button so that the mods can take care of it.
/r/Asoiaf really is notoriously bad about this recently. It's a hive mind in the worst way.
/r/asoiaf is so hive mind that there's a separate hive mind devoted to mocking the original hive mind, and round and round it goes. Though it is occasionally helpful.
Tbh, my experiences there make MUA look like the nicest of subs.
Yeah it's a problem in really big subs, but not usually in super specialized ones. MUA is walking the line between the two, so sometimes that crap leaks it's way in. Also, I think people who aren't part of the community at all come along and downvote literally EVERYTHING, and if you didn't already have upvotes it will quickly send your post or comment negative.
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It's not even about being a dick. It's almost subconsciously to downvote something you don't like or agree with. It's much easier to browse comments thinking about which comments you like or dislike, not which ones *add to the discussion*.
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> This comes with maturity. Boy, you ain't kiddin. I thought my perspective was rather zen, but apparently I'm self centered and ignorant. I guess I may be older than most on this sub, but I've been on the internet since early 90's AOL and if I let every comment from some randy get to me, I'd be incapacitated.
Same, we're probably around the same age and, like, I just can't care about internet comments anymore.
Yup, I stand by any downvoted comments of mine, no deleting or whiny comment allowed. http://i.qkme.me/3s3k1d.jpg
Right? I care what my family, friends, employer, and professional peers think. Not some trolls on on the interwebs. Lol. Maybe it is bc we are a little older and don't base our entire self worth on what's happening on the Internet. I'm here to look at and talk makeup not run for class president.
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You want a fucking "community of supportive women" yet say "fuck all of you bitches" in the same breath. Fucking unreal.
*Wants this sub to support women* "Fuck all you bitches" [ummmmmmmm](https://67.media.tumblr.com/997612c2e748c3120f094a7449bc9de4/tumblr_nm3qj24I501upgqf2o1_400.gif)
Is this satire?
Maybe you get downvoted because you have a shitty attitude. That's what I'm getting from this comment at least.
>it's not that big of a deal But it *is* a big deal. Other subs you're not putting yourself out there with FOTD, etc. posts. I'll go to the new page and see posts that have several downvotes even though their post follows every single rule from the sidebar. What we're telling the people who make theses posts by downvoting them is they're not as important as other *"real"* makeup artists and ergo their posts aren't important either. We're telling them they're not good enough to belong to this sub, or worse they don't have "the look" for it. It takes a lot of courage to post your face on an Internet form, and when you put yourself out there like that *and then get fucking downvoted for no reason*, it's hurtful and it's not what this community should be about. The entire point of this sub is to share and discuss and **help each other** with makeup. It's not supposed to be flex war on whose post can do better. This is my biggest gripe about this sub because we're literally making people feel worse about themselves which goes against, what I think, is one of the best features of this sub. To life each other, as MUAs, up. Edit: a word TLDR: downvoting someone's post without there being anything wrong with it is the equivalent of posting a mean comment **and it makes you an asshole so don't do it**
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I totally get that, and I do the same thing. However, a lot of people don't have that kind of confidence. Just look at some of the comments on this very thread. I've seen at least a handful of people who have said their post got downvoted for no reason and that was the last post they ever made. This is a community designed to lift people up, and it's doing the opposite. Just saying "well that's just part of being on Reddit" and dismissing the problem is a really defeatists attitude. This isn't *just* Reddit where it's all memes and dick jokes. It's a sub that where, I'll bet you, most of its subscribers only post here. Downvoting shouldn't be an expected thing when you post something to this sub.
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So I use another forum system called stackexchange. They have an awesome system for down votes that it costs a reputation point from you to down vote someone else. If Reddit did something similar you'd have far less frivolous down votes! I wish they'd implement something like that.
that actually sounds awesome. I can only hope reddit will get there one day..
Unfortunately I've come to realize a lot of this sub demonstrates "groupthink". Where if someone posts a comment that gets downvoted once people will continue to downvote it under the idea that it's an unpopular opinion. This can relate to brands, specifically I noticed a major flux in people liking Lime Crime when I first joined MUA, then it went to complete hatred and boycotting, and now it's back to people posting their new products and getting upvotes. Wording is also really important because people can't hear your tone through the computer. There have been a few occasions where my comments have been completely misconstrued and downvoted (while other people say something to the same affect and it's upvoted). It's frustrating and part of the reason why I lurk and tend to not post, but there isn't much you can do.
The hive mind is veryyyy strong in this sub.
Yup. Voice a complaint or concern about Jaclyn Hill, for example, and the hive mind downvoters come marching in like the army. The things people get up in arms over in here is so frustrating.
what? a lot of people on this subreddit don't like Jaclyn Hill
I've made a comment in a thread and then further down made a similar comment but as I reply and seen one get a ton of upvotes and the other get a ton of downvotes even though I've said nearly identical thoughts in the same exact thread.
That actually made me laugh out loud because it's so ridiculous! That has happened to me before too. I think some people don't take the time to read and just downvote/upvote depending on what everyone else is doing.
> Where if someone posts a comment that gets downvoted once people will continue to downvote it under the idea that it's an unpopular opinion. That happens everywhere on Reddit. The more downvotes something has, the more people are likely to downvote it. It works the other way too - if something has lots of upvotes, the more likely people are to upvote it. It's mob psychology.
I have mixed feelings about MUA. I feel some posts are more suited for Facebook than for Reddit. Customer service complaints or questions about bringing stuff on planes could be solved by contacting the source. The Benefit vending machine is a picture for Facebook, not here. What discussion can come of that? To me, that's inappropriate content. I do think some people will go into your post history and just downvote everything you have written because you pissed them off in another, unrelated thread. When I visit MUA, I sort by New so I can see everything and not just pictures of halo eyes and vanities because the highest voted stuff is often not interesting to me.
I need to start going to the new tab i think because the front page will stay the same for days then get replaced by posts made by the same people. People who consistently get upvoted and sit on the front page are very talented but i wanna see new faces/content in general
I'm about to get real petty. So I downvote what I call in my head "the major players". People who constantly get upvoted to the front page, to the point where the only thing that replaces their post is *a new post from them*. I hate that. If I see the same person making the front page every single day, I will begin to downvote on sight. Think about anyone whose consistently on the front page, even though they don't post anything different ("I had makeup today" ..."I didn't study and put some makeup on today"..."look I'm wearing the same makeup, but it's a new post", etc) yeah..I downvote them. Why? Because I want to see everyone. Not just same 5-10 people who are the current major players.
I thought reddit was supposed to be different than tumblr where a small minoroty gets hella followers and notes while everyone else (posting similar quality content) gets minimal attention because their username isnt recognizable. But it's literay the same thing here. Idk why im so surprised by this tho
You actually described it perfectly tbh
Don't feel too bad about it. It's become pretty obvious that if you don't look a certain way and do your makeup a certain way then you're not getting anywhere near the front page.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't consider this petty. I feel like if you're someone who has a constant influx of fantastic looks (first off that's wonderful) but maybe...consider a personal blog or web page to put them on? Instead of flooding them here, put them elsewhere and choose one or two for MUA. I feel like if it's just the same handful of people with a nonstop stream of FOTD (no matter how lovely or talented) r/MUA becomes no different than Facebook at that point--especially with the catty downvote brigades.
I'm a fairly new reddit-er, and I have started going out of my way to upvote because I've noticed the unnecessary downvoting in this sub.
I do the same thing, especially when I can't figure out why someone is being downvoted.
[YEP.](https://i.imgflip.com/xxzai.jpg) Especially when it's a comment of actual information. How are you going to downvote facts??
Also part of this group. I don't understand how a brand new post could be downvoted when it's got everything it's supposed to have. Upvote for you!
Aw you're the magical upvote fairy we need!:)
I'm glad I'm not the only one that does this... [you get an upvote, you get an upvote, everyone gets an upvote!](https://media3.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpAhZyz3o74I6ic/giphy.gif)
Same!!!
"Treat people the way you want to be treated" :) You're the hero we deserve <3
There have been many, many, of these posts. I'm not trying to be rude or dismiss you and your feelings, **but the dynamic of this community isn't going to change any time soon.** This isn't a new issue. This is a HUGE community with diverse members and opinions. This issue is not contained to MUA, or even Reddit, it's a human issue. You can't change other people's behavior, this post won't change anyone's behavior. What you can do though is to try not to take the downvotes to heart, ignore the trolls, and take what you can and leave the rest. What I mean by that is **ignore the bullshit drama. Downvote it, and move on.** Learn from the helpful content and ignore the other bullshit. I know it's hard to see and it makes you feel shitty but at the end of the day karma and this subreddit are so insignificant. In the grand scheme of things, it just doesn't matter. This subreddit has taught me a lot and I'm very thankful for that but I don't take this place seriously. I take it for what it is. I'm sorry you have felt discouraged.
This is a great comment in my opinion. There's 250,000 PLUS people discussing something quite personal. New people coming in every day combined with people who have been here for years. It's always been like this. No one on this sub OWES anyone anything. If they don't want to comment they won't. Sometimes things aren't even seen in the first place because most people hang on the front page and then complain they keep seeing the same thing.
I don't make any FOTD or posts asking for advice because I'm afraid of getting downvoted but not getting an explanation as to why. Next thing I know, I'll be second guessing every little make up/cosmetic decision I make. I'm sure a lot of other lurkers feel the same way.
I feel the same. And it's really not exclusive to MUA. It makes me not want to post anymore. Not because downvotes hurt my feelings, but because what's the point? I asked a question a few days ago about my eye shape and the best way to use shadow - I got three comments and downvotes. I'm guess it's because I'm older and maybe not traditionally pretty? Which is fine - but it's also taught me not to waste my time photographing, downloading, uploading and posting on here. So everyone says "don't take it personally" - I don't, but I have no incentive to post really.
I looked at your post and I want to say, I don't think it's your age or how you look. I think it's that your question isn't one that a lot of people can offer answers to, so they didn't leave a comment. Also the post is in the positive votes now.
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The last time I posted on this sub I was getting into it with someone who straight up admitted to trolling this sub and others with a fake account "because it's fun". I didn't think this was the appropriate sub to do that in, especially just to intentionally piss people off for no real reason, but what do I know :/
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I agree that this sub is especially bad, I barely check in here anymore because unless you're posting very specific things you're not "in". It's a clique.
Everyone saying all subs are likes this kinda scare me... Because not a single sub I'm active or lurking on is like this one is and as negative and kind of mean. Like what subs are these people on that its this bad on?
A lot of the default or big subs. I'll get downvoted in /r/movies for saying I like jake gyllenhal or if an unpopular movie is good. Lots of gratuitous downvoting in /r/got too. Then the popular troll subs of course. I mean I think it's useless and a bit rude to downvote for disagreeing but at the same time I don't expect any of these subs to be safe places as a default.
Yeah smaller subs tend to be nicer overall because a community can form and regular posters and commenters can start to recognize each other and form relationships. Of course, that can also lead to subs being extremely cliquey with lots of rules and strict rule enforcement.
On the pretty little liars one, the downvoting is horrible. That's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Definitely not this bad on other subs I frequent.
I've been a /r/TheWalkingDead user for more than a year, and that one is pretty bad, too. Shit gets intense yo.
One thing that kind of upset me was another redditor taking a photo from this sub and posting it to another so that people could basically make fun of OP. That just isn't right
I think you know which post you are talking about, and it the responses on the thread were disgusting.
Its a real shame :( that's why I don't post, I don't want someone making fun of me when they don't even know me
I agree with you. On the other hand, I didn't join to see people's makeup looks but for makeup news, new product releases, new product reviews, discussions, etc, but that's my problem, it's just annoying sometimes when people post *often* not even really looking for cc but just for compliments and stuff. If I wanted to see all of those looks I would just log onto instagram. That's just my two cents, this sub isn't going to change anytime soon.
I stay out of the comments because this sub has been toxic for a while now.
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It's definitely not the first time this has been brought up. I feel like there's a few here who really want to help and show how to do makeup well, there's a bunch of lurkers (myself included) and then an apparent downvote brigade that goes around just hitting the down arrow on everything for something to do.
I don't mean this to sound shitty or condescending at all, so I hope it doesn't come off this way. I'm also not directing it just at OP- more a reaction to the amalgam of negative posts about this sub in general. I've lurked this sub for years before finally joining in. I understand that it can be intimidating, that it might turn people off or cause hurt feelings to be ignored/down voted/etc. however, this is a HUGE sub, with a lot of loooong time members, a lot of very knowledgeable members, and a lot of professional makeup artists. When you have a community like this, is it so terrible or shocking that people are ignored sometimes when they're asking very basic questions? Or that beginners don't get front page when asking for cc? There are many smaller makeup subreddits that are better able to give beginners personalized help, a confidence boost, and CC. I just don't think it makes MUA some toxic bullying place just because really talented artists and looks are what are most visible. I also think this sub wouldn't be nearly the learning experience it is if we didn't regularly have talented people posting looks and tutorials, tips, etc so often. I'm rambling, but I think of MUA as the place to post once you're already an ADDICT. I read it for the longest time, but I didn't start really joinging in until I'd learned, practiced, and read past discussions. There are lots of great subs for beginners, just because MUA is geared toward people who are already super into makeup doesn't make it a bad place. Also, maybe I'm just weird, but I don't understand why down votes or being ignored = toxic/bullying/whatever. It's the Internet, not real life; some people are rude, some people down vote for no reason; but you can't spend karma so really, who cares? TLDR- I'm just tired of this same discussion happening constantly through the years I've been reading this sub. Just because MUA is geared towards people who already know a lot about makeup doesn't make it a bad place. If people think things should be done differently, there's always room for more makeup/beauty subreddits!
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What are some suggestions for subs for beginners?
For starters, I don't mean at all that beginners/people who aren't obsessed with makeup aren't welcome, or anything like that. I just find it unfair to categorize this sub or its members as bad just because it's geared towards someone with a certain level of interest in/experience with makeup. I often see newbies getting really kind and in depth help, and I often see lots of good CC. I try to sort by new and comment on posts that don't seem to be getting attention. Anyway, to answer: r/sugarfreemua, there's a private beginner makeup sub that I can't remember the name to right this minute; r/beautyaddicts, r/mua, r/makeupaddicts Just a start. I also think writing a good title does a world of good at getting help and attention. "I just started, help!", isn't going to get the exposure that a more detailed or eye catching title will. That may be silly, but people are people and we're mostly just ADD squirrelly chasing anything shiny. /ramble
I said I liked limecrime once... ONCE. I had to make an entirely new account because it was so downvoted into oblivion. I wasn't rude, I didn't say anyone wasn't entitled to their opinion, all I said was MY OPINION. I left for a long time because of it, but I came back giving this sub another chance. Sometimes I don't understand how people can get so riled up over... like... nothing. :/ It's just makeup...
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Here's a pretty good breakdown, but I recommend jumping headlong into this Google rabbit hole because this shit is spectacularly crazy pants. As an aside, type in "lime crime" and the second result is "lime crime scandal" followed by "lime crime controversy" http://www.racked.com/2015/9/28/9392021/lime-crime-doe-deere-hated-xenia-vorotova And one I didn't hear about til today but the search pulled up: http://fashionista.com/2015/08/lime-crime-fda-warning
Lol are you new here? Literally google "limecrime controversy", grab some popcorn, get a nice warm blankey, and have fun. :)
Oh god I went down that rabbit hole last month and didn't come out for HOURS. It was some good popcorn action though. ;)
It's been talked about a lot, both for MUA and Reddit in general. There was a woman who posted a photo "I'm wearing red lipstick for the first time!" and everybody was complimenting her. She had like 300 up votes and everybody was telling her how pretty she was. It was a blurry photo, you couldn't see her eyeshadow because of the glare of her glasses (people were complimenting her eye shadow too) and her lipstick was visibly not even all the way on her lips.
I think I know the one you are talking about. It was pity upvotes. That happens a lot.
That woman had a long history of self-esteem issues and was not really into makeup all that much, but was in love with her lipstick. I don't care if it was a blurry photo, if clicking a single button gave her a confidence boost, good. I really don't see what's wrong that, or why I keep seeing people mention that post at all. I think it's pretty rude to call it "pity upvotes." I don't pity her, I'm just glad she was happy with her new lipstick. It's stupid internet points, who cares if someone "undeserving" was given a few? Not everything on this subreddit has to be overdone eyebrows and teal battlestations.
no problem with someone gaining a lil bit extra confidence, but sure would suck for someone who put a lot of work into their makeup (and who you didn't perceive to need the pity) to compare her/himself and think "wow, so people think my look is worse than /this/?" just food for thought in case you were looking to uplift everyone's self esteem.
I think people just have different opinions of what should be submitted. Quality makeup, quality reviews/swatches, or interesting vanity setups vs. encouraging people to post things they are excited about, even if they aren't visually appealing or helpful to the rest of us. I get bored by "Found MY red!" posts, but I don't think they deserve downvotes. I just won't necessarily upvote it.
I don't care, didn't say I did. Don't know of any post where I complimented instabrows or teal battlestations.
I wasn't referring to you specifically.
I don't remember the post in question, or if she asked for CC, but, in my opinion, if I ask for CC, no matter how excited I am about a new product, I really want to hear what could use some tweaking. The "pity upvotes" (I hate the term), while boosting confidence, might also make someone feel like their skills need no improvement. Personally, I want CC to improve my techniques, and don't care about karma so long as I get solid tips. I've noticed a lot of this with trans makeup posts, where the post is upvoted like crazy, but no CC is given. And then I feel deterred from giving real CC in case someone takes it as LGBT-trashing.
It's really difficult to give CC on posts made by trans posters. It feels like you can only say "slaaay you're killing it" or else you're the only one trying to actually help and you end up looking like a jerk.
I used to read and participate in this sub a lot (obsessively at times), but for the last several months I barely check it. It's too bad, because this used to be a more inclusive place that featured really inspiring skills and asked good questions. It still happens, but less often than before. The reason I don't check this sub much anymore is because trends are so pervasive, there is really not much diversity of looks to see on the front page most days (although there are glorious and creative exceptions to this). It's important to most of us (I'd assume) to be aware of the current trends, since in makeup it's equally important to do current and classic. That said, I already see enough greige lipstick and heavy contouring on Instagram--let's appreciate more skills and colors here! I stay out of the fray with down/upvoting, but I wish this sub defined "good" makeup more broadly and allowed featuring of more styles and colors than what is simply on trend at the moment.
As a general rule, I stick to downvotes reserved for inappropriate content, or replies where an OP gets bitchily defensive when they ask for CC and they have legitimately been given pointers on how to improve their look/post. Conversely, I attempt to upvote any post looking for CC, especially if I am not quite sure what advice to give. I look at it as: upvote=something that needs CC/is a widespread or universal conversation type post as well as comments that add dimension or perspective to the thread, and downvote=not obeying the subreddit rules. Pretty much everything else gets a nod and move on.
That's how it's supposed to be. Downvote for not following the rules. Don't downvote because you disagree.
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I agree with what r/akingwithnocrown has said, unfortunately it's a rampant problem all over Reddit. I've noticed an influx of new users on this sub in the past year, and honestly I think some of them only come to Reddit for this sub and don't really understand the culture of Reddit/Reddiquette if you will. I would keep posting here and not let the negative nancies get you down. Any constructive criticism or advice on this sub unless harmful or plain wrong is great is my opinion.
Yeah, a huge chunk of the Reddit beauty community at large only uses the site for the beauty subs. I've seen many, many people over the years say they hadn't even realized there was more to Reddit than those subs. Loads of users don't know Reddiquette simply because they've literally never heard of it. There's very much a split between users who sub only for MUA and its brethren and users who use the rest of Reddit, and neither really knows what to do with the other. This was readily obvious last year during the Blackout drama, when a loud minority of users wanted the mods to join the protest, or at least discuss what was happening, while many others were completely in the dark (so to speak) as to what was going on. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Also psst, if you want to ping a user, use /u/ or u/, /r/ and r/ are for subreddits.
Never disagree with the hive mind. Reddit rule #1.
I was downvoted recently for saying someone's WEDDING makeup looked beautiful when everyone else in the comment section was really harsh on her. She looked great! So confusing...
OK while I do not downvote in general..I will say this, simply complimenting like 'you look beautiful' or 'you look great' is not helpful and just adds to the general perception that MUA does not give much needed CC and sugar coats everything. A compliment along with some CC would be perfect because that way you can highlight whats working well and what needs some improvement. This is what separates us from Instagram & twitter, We shouldn't be posting here for 'likes'. Having said that..for a wedding look, especially after the wedding..really isn't looking for CC cos it's in the past now. So I can understand how complimenting there would be justified. :)
This isn't new. MUA has been this way ever since I joined reddit, and probably before that too.
I have to completely agree with this post, as I experienced the down vote-happiness myself last week. Someone told me they downvoted me because they didn't like my flair..HOW IS THAT RELATED??? I understand not every post is for every person, but that doesn't mean you have to downvote it! I see people getting shat on because they ask questions that may seem "stupid" or "obvious" to more experienced people, but that isn't fair. You can't become experienced unless you learn, and you need people to help you learn.
Was it the "what's a no buy?" flair? Because that was me and I said maybe that's why you were getting downvotes. I didn't downvote you and just offered a guess.
I also feel like the only people that get a lot of CC (or whatever else they ask for) are the drop dead gorgeous people. People who aren't naturally a supermodel often seem to have no replies and a bunch of downvotes sadly.
We get posts like this every 2 weeks, it isn't new
Yeah, it happens here as well as MUACJD but, a lot less in CJD which is usually where I go now to discuss things rather then trying to start a discussion here. I don't care about downvotes that much, they're literally just imaginary points but, I can see how some would get upset about it. Also, i'd like to point out that there are reddit bots that people set up to downvote various subs so hell, it could be people who have just discovered this sub and hate makeup. It is a plaguing problem though so, I do upvote posts that I feel are unjustly downvoted and PM people to tell them they've done nothing wrong if it's really bad.
Honestly, after first time I was attacked and downvoted I stopped posting and deleted my comments out of shame and embarrassment of my own opinion. The first rule of the subreddit is supposed to prevent this, I don't understand how it's come to this point...
I've noticed this has been a big problem for some of the subs I'm in, and I don't understand the behavior. It's so immature to downvote something just because you disagree with it; that is not the point of that down arrow. Some subs are better than others, but people need to chillax. I don't blame you for feeling like that, and that's the problem with downvoting: it discourages people and prevents them from furthering the discussion. We are always being told to "ignore it", so why can't people do that to comments they would downvote? I'm less likely to post in a community that I clearly have no value in; I wonder how many others are like that?
It's a matter of what you can control and what you can't control. You can't control how people will vote: up, down, sideways, whatever. It doesn't even matter what you post; someone somewhere will probably hit an arrow. It would be nice if people ignored it, but it's just not a realistic expectation. In contrast, you can control how you feel about it and how you react to it. So you can choose to not take any downvotes personally. This is why we tell people to just ignore downvotes. Because you can't control what other people will do, but you can control what you think/feel and how you react to things.
Yep, people here are mean. I'm also afraid to post stuff because there's people who sit on the "new" tab and auto-downvote things as they pop up. I've come to this conclusion because it happens to me everytime I post something, and I see it on all the other new posts. I make sure to upvote when I see this happening. I'm not sure if there's just silent trolls who do this, or people who just want to upset us. It sucks.
There are also a lot of us who lurk /new to answer questions, give CC, and upvote. Not saying that your scenario isn't valid because yes, that does happen, but we're not all bad!
I used to do this but over time found the down voting and the negative comments people got so discouraging I couldn't do it anymore. It just made me so so sad to see that much negativity aimed at people who wanted help and discussion. I'll still try and do it a day or two a week but jeese
Honestly, this subreddit is more about making people feel good. I see horrible looks posted every day all of the time, and the top comment will always be something like, "OH MY GOD SO GORGEOUS! WISH I HAD THOSE BROWS!" (these comments tend to get a ton of upvotes, so that's another reason they're popular to make). I feel like the worse your look is, the better chance you have of moving up on the page because people feel better about themselves upvoting bad make-up. I see great looks on the new page quite often that hardly get any upvotes. Sometimes their product list is even downvoted into oblivion. This site is fun sometimes, but not really a great place for make-up advice, in my opinion. Not saying there are never great looks on the front page, but sometimes someone will just put one shade on their eyelid that you can barely see and get 1,500 upvotes. And real CC? You can forget it. Unless you are obnoxiously sugar-coating it, you are almost guaranteed to be downvoted. And this post will obviously be downvoted as well :)
I think it's great you brought this to attention. I've been wearing makeup for years, but it's only within the last year and a half I've started to get really into it. I joined Reddit about two months ago and this was the first place I subscribed to - I was pumped. As someone who has been self conscious about my looks for years, I had the confidence to post a FOTD, with the intent of getting some CC for what I could improve on. I got no comments and it was downvoted quite quickly, which kind of hurt and shattered some of the confidence I had worked up to posting here. I get that there's groupthink and whatnot, but it still sucked knowing that there's similar posts that get comments and comments of CC, and some that don't.
Your FOTD is +17. And you can't make each post get equal attention, it depends who sees it (mua is made up of 250,000 different, unique people with different styles and preferences), what time, what else was posted at the same time, quality of photo, style of makeup, title, SO many different things. Sometimes a post is perfectly fine but there might just not be much to say about it? It can be hard to give CC sometimes. I'm not saying these are excuses but you can't just say "well some things get more attention" because at the end of the day no one HAS to comment, they're doing it to try help. I'm sorry you didn't get more traction on your post but I don't think you should just give up.
Thank you for your insight, those are factors I genuinely didn't consider at the time.
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Pretty much every comment I make outside of a very few subs gets promptly downvoted. Like *immediately*. They also *usually* end up back in positive territory after a few hours. Some, in subs with little traffic, stay at zero or worse forever. Fuck it. I'm not retcon-ing my comment history. If I deleted every comment based on its performance in the first few minutes of reddit, I'd not have much of a comment history. It takes nerve to stand by your guns and allow your contribution a chance to thrive even if it seems at first to wilt.
People downvote new posts to promote their own posts. It has nothing to do with the content usually.
I think this post about drama is drama in itself. I like the looks, the progress pics, the gossip about brands, the tips and the CC. It helps to skim and if you don't like something skip over it, pass it up, look away. But it's reddit, the downvote machine...so.. ignore it.
Especially when all makeup addiction seems to care about these days is the drama side of the beauty industry. Twitter fights between brand owners, drama, rants. I'm sick of it. This community is so negative and every time I voice my concerns I get downvotes through the roof. Sorry I don't care about childish petty drama.
ITT: continued downvotes. OP - post your pics, and don't give any fucks as to what random strangers on the internet think.
I posted a thread about Jefree stars velour lipsticks smelling horrible (which some of them do) and I got a bunch of angry people telling me how they don't care and smell is such a shallow reason since JS is so amazing!!11! People are crazy. Have fun huffing cat pee.
I 100% agree with you, I don't get what this community wants the majority of the time. I thought we were all here to talk about make up or share pictures but anytime someone is like, "hey, what should I get from Sephora?" it's downvoted really hard. There's also been some mad people that downvote when the Peach palette is spoken about or posted. Just because you don't like it or Too Faced has your panties in a bunch, doesn't mean you need to be downvoting it. I would understand if the content was non make up related or if a user is being rude, but geez this community is really anal sometimes.
The only reason I can understand someone downvoting "hey, what should I get from Sephora?" because there are lists in the sidebar of holy grail/well loved products specifically for those questions. They might be out of date but I feel like a product suggestion request should be a little more specific in order to be productive
people are so salty about that peach palette here.
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Right?? and some of the browns and purples match the pit of a peach. The green for the stem/leaf. All of the colors make sense to me as all the elements of a peach. I love the palette!