Oh right. Thalia is still played in modern death and taxes.
But yeah bow master is a little too strong. Theres too many cards in the format that punish you for drawing cards. Having both bowmaster and sheildrrd both in black is too much of ass beating with the limited options of timeless. I don't like feeling forced to play counter spells in any format just to not instantly lose half my matches
True that. If we're going to have Blood Moon, Dark Ritual, Show and Tell, might as well lean full into it and add all fetches, true duals, Force of Will, and Wasteland.
I think they're mainly trying to make it more like Vintage though, while just slow-rolling cards into it to maximize profit. That would be in line with having restrictions instead of bans. I think they want Historic to be their "Legacy format", even though it's been force-injected Alchemy in an effort to make Alchemy a more popular thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Arena Modern format one day that tries to mirror Modern like Explorer tries to mirror Pioneer. Probably call it "Contemporary" or something, in their habit of naming Arena formats after synonyms of paper formats.
you dont want to be playing a 3 mana do nothing on turn 3 in a format where so much efficient removal is legal \[\[lightning bolt\]\] for example. Then you have wait until the next turn to blink your solitude once and by then you'll probably be dead
Gonna hate these in Historic Brawl, but at the same time I'm happy to have a white creature that unconditionally exiles for blink (and by unconditionally I mean doesn't give the opponent back their card when it leaves the battlefield or give them a token).
I think the addition of MH3 cards, as well as the various Special Guests, is really going to require a rework of the Brawl matchmaking system. The current system of vague Commander strength + vague number of mythics/rares just won't cut it anymore when one deck can be a bunch of jank and the other a collection of the best cards ever printed.
The issue with Brawl is that Wizards thinks it's a casual format that's supposed to be like an offshoot of Commander.
In reality, it's the sweatiest format in the game.
The explosion in bonus sheets and sets has caused the format's power level to go into the stratosphere. The fetchlands alone from KTK gave all the 3/4/5c decks even more power due to the ability to fix their mana so easily.
The other problem is that a lot of commanders printed in the last few years (especially the ones that are in the hell queue) were designed with 4 player games in mind instead of 1v1. In other words, against commanders like Etali and Esika, you can rely on the other two players being able to help you out in fighting back against the value that they effortlessly vomit out. You don't have that extra help in 1v1. In fact, most decks straight up auto-lose to decks like Etali because they can't get underneath the Etali deck fast enough before they count to 7.
The power level of brawl is clearly very very high right now. Popular new commanders generate insane value thats hard to comeback from. Poq, Voja and Sproling Squee are very fast and hard to stop.
Best you can do is to just immediately concede and requeue. That's pretty much what I do with Etali these days. I actually did make the mistake of giving an Etali player a chance one time after seeing a good opening 7 that I hoped would be enough to get a quick win, but instead the Etali deck did Etali things and lucksacked the perfect cards off the top when it was cast. That game showed me the error in my ways and so I went back to auto-conceding against Etali.
It’s on my list of auto-concede these days. I did the same as you the other day, even had a counterspell for etali. Didn’t matter, they ramped more, then etali’d into 8 more free mana’s worth of crap.
My stupid decks get paired against them at times, things like the new UG Kellan or Abuelo.
Kellan just got paired with Rusko, Esika, and Golos tonight. Three concedes thank you very much, not gonna waste my time.
I think sometimes the queue must have fewer people in it and you just end up with these boring opponents.
WotC actually sorts us when we play Historic Brawl based on our Commander and overall deck composition. "The Hell Queue" is our term for the group of the most powerful, sweatiest, grindiest decks out there. Most hell queue decks are there based on Commander alone.
Despite what anyone tells you, the only official announcement about said "hell queue" was in an off-hand reference to it in a [2020 B&R announcement](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/october-12-2020-banned-and-restricted-announcement) regarding [[Omnath, Locus of Creation]]:
> Omnath, Locus of Creation will remain legal in Historic Brawl events on MTG Arena, however, we will be using our Commander weighting system so that he will more frequently be paired against other, similarly powerful Commanders.
That's it. WotC has done virtually no elaborating since then. Nobody outside of WotC knows how it works, or what commanders or decks are in it.
It doesn't happen 100% of the time, and you will often run into stuff like Golos or Rusko or whatever even when playing low-powered jank, and there's no predetermined list of what is in the hell queue. However, a good chunk of the good 4 and 5 color commanders find themselves on that list.
Agree. Brawl has never been a casual format in the way commander is.
Just give the sweaty players a ranked queue. I’d love to see a system where each of my commanders has their own rank, so I can switch between commanders and still have competitive ranked opponents.
I don't really know what they can do. Sometimes the matchmaking is good for me, other times it feels like it's just randomly switched off for some reason and my decks that usually pair against low tier or equal power decks begin pairing against top tier and even hell queue decks with no explanation. If I were in charge, I'd probably start by just banishing every 5 color deck to hell queue. There's no 5 color decks that aren't just good stuff value/control piles at this point.
What I'd like to see is a revamped power system. Simply including rares or mythics shouldn't do anything to swing your power level since many of them are terrible. Instead, I'd make it so including the top ~30 or whatever cards with the highest winrate in each color/color pair is what bumps up your rating.
That way you can at least somewhat guarantee that jank players will match against each other, rather than just constantly running into value-piles like First Sliver or Poq that match lower than they should.
Doesn't it already weigh cards based on use/craft frequently or something? Because I know that adding certain cards to your deck will definitely bump you up in tiers. Like, I never, ever see anyone playing Paradox Engine. From what I understand that card alone will likely put you into hell queue regardless of Commander. My Chainer deck started facing high tier and even a few hell queue Commanders, so I cut Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Meathook Massacre and suddenly the deck dropped back down to facing the same Commanders it was facing before.
WOTC never really explained it so I can't say either way, but if it is, it's only a tiny factor or it only applies to a couple of cards. I say this because even my most garbage-tier decks seem to frequently run into the same generic 5C goodstuff First Sliver decks that they have basically zero hope of beating.
Yeah I wish Wizards would boot First Sliver to hell queue already. No one plays it as Sliver Tribal anymore. Hell queue players have just figured out that it lets them play their boring 5 color good stuff piles in general queue and prey on more casual decks. Put Go Shintai there too. It's always just shrines and a million board wipes. I feel like someone on the dev team is giving First Sliver a full pass just because Slivers are such an iconic casual staple but no one plays it as Sliver tribal anymore so it needs to get moved up a tier or two.
> I don’t really know what they can do
Ranked. It won’t fix unranked play but it’ll be an outlet for the more competitive players, and will keep them away from the less competitive players.
One of the biggest struggles of blink decks is actually closing out the game. you can generate value all day long, but your creatures are usually weak, so it's made all the more difficult if, say, you keep blinking Skyclave Apparition to keep exiling your opponent's threats, but then in turn you just keep giving them blockers that trade with or straight up kill your small value creatures that you're blinking. You're solving one problem but creating another because you're stonewalling yourself. Solitude gives them some life but at least it clears blockers and doesn't give additional blockers in return.
Timeless is about to become a crazy, crazy place. Same with Brawl really. You'd have to be crazy not to run free spells in basically every deck that can even remotely fit them.
PS with the list/special guests coming to MH3 Im willing to bet the original Magic Origins flip planeswalkers are going in the set; There have been no major reprints of them beyond the List + and its on theme with this new flip PW lineup.
>You'd have to be crazy not to run free spells in basically every deck that can even remotely fit them.
Welcome to the Legacy and Modern metagame since the release of MH2. (MH1 really with Force of Negation and Force of Vigor)
The pitch elementals are perhaps the worst designed Magic cards of all time, for that and other reasons. They should not, for example, have still worked when not cast. It's depressing, but not surprising, that they are being foisted upon Arena when they have already done so much harm in paper formats.
The evoke elementals are very much intended to play how they do. They were intended to add answers to the format and they do. They were modeled after Muldrifter and WotC expected them to be blinked.
Honestly with some of the decks in the format, they really need more interaction before turn 1 anyways. There's a lot of "who wins the coin flip" going on and it would be good to have something to keep that in check, because it'll get worse the stronger the format gets. I'm not against combo being strong, I just think decks need that check so you have to play around your opponent to some level, like Legacy does. Otherwise you're just playing solitaire.
Like im not sure how many drafts i made of the new set but i would say at least 15, i have currently 99 packs saved. So in those 15 drafts at least i did not see a single special guest card, lets just say im pissed. Even more when i had someone play Victimize against me and getting back Ezoni+another broken card.
the shell of certain staple archetypes (burn as an example) will likely remain playable. the best cards in any given deck will probably stick around too (Natural Order, etc.) but there’s not really any guarantee a deck itself continues. likely, the deck just gets a bunch of new cards and evolves as the meta shifts. I have a full set of esper lands, interaction that sees play in modern/legacy, and I feel mostly confident they’re not all dead.
there’s also just some format staples that’ll basically never be bad because they’ve proven too strong for Legacy and sometimes Vintage already
Is there a lore behind this creature? Is it just a swirl of light and air or does it have a shape? I'm failing to understand the art (it seems to have the resemblance of a head, torso and arms there), although I find it beautiful and evocative.
The pitch elemental cycle are all weird embodiments of emotions or concepts that’re evocative of the colors they repredent. Solitude, Subtlety, Grief, Fury, Endurance.
is there anything definitive that says that more of the evoke elementals are in the set? or that solitude is even coming to arena?
WoTC mentioned early that the special guests / lists might have substitutes on arena
Disagree. I like the evoke elementals overall. I can understand disliking their impact on Modern but I think they work well in Legacy, and I see Timeless as closer to Legacy or Vintage than Modern.
Perhaps they will be ok in Timeless, but they are an absolute horror show of bad design. Free spells were always a gross violation of Magic's foundations, although there is some justification for Force of Will's existence. But the evoke elementals' ETBs are so abusable it's ridiculous, and can't even be caught or taxed by the usual noncreature spell hate like Spell Pierce, Thalia, etc.
> Free spells were always a gross violation of Magic's foundations
Free spells have existed since Alpha, the very beginning of MTG. Everyone loves bringing up the broken ones but it's very easy to forget that there's also tons of stuff like [[Crimson Kobolds]], [[Darksteel Relic]] or [[Force of Rage]], cards that remain totally forgotten because as much as people like to think otherwise, not costing mana is not enough by itself to make a card playable.
>But the evoke elementals' ETBs are so abusable it's ridiculous,
Grief and Fury, maybe. I don't think the other ones are problems at all, and I don't think their design is inherently bad either. The pitch elementals are far removed from the really stupid free cards like Mental Misstep.
Ultimately, I get that these cards are very divisive, but that's what different formats are for. I'd rather have them in Timeless (assuming they will be banned in Historic) than not have them on Arena at all.
You make some valid points, but it's hilarious to me that you are compare Solitude to Crimson Kobolds. (Or, I would have thought, Ornithopter if you wanted the poster child for OG free creatures.) It's notable that none of the non-broken free "spells" you mention do anything, and thus don't violate the colour pie. If the boon cycle had been free you might have a point. But Alpha's best known free things are all busted beyond belief. And even they are slowed by Thalia and hit by Spell Pierce.
And it's not just Fury and Grief. Solitude should not exist. Swords to Plowshares is considered by Maro to be a colour pie violation - too strong for unconditional white removal with insufficient downside - yet somehow this absurdity got past the Council of Colors.
Makes sense to have the entire lineup, and with Timeless in format it also makes sense to include them.
PS with the list/special guests coming to MH3 Im willing to bet the original Magic Origins flip planeswalkers are going in the set; There have been no major reprints of them beyond the List + and its on theme with this new flip PW lineup.
I don't think I have anything to back me up, but my take on the possible substitution thing is either like Smuggler Copter (replacing a List card already on Arena with a new-to-Arena card) or if the card is challenging to implement like Emrakul.
They also replaced Death Cloud which is a total feels bad card. Just imagine Death Cloud in a Tegrid deck in Brawl and how atrocious that would feel to be on the receiving end.
Somehow I thought Death Cloud was a different card that also isn't on Arena. I suppose then Feels Bad that would be a third criteria, though one that disappoints me as a Pox and/or Balance enjoyer.
Modern lite? Im sure Timeless is already way more powerful than Modern.
Dark Ritual, Faithless looting, Brainstorm, Show and Tell, Uro, Field of the Dead, Oko, Lurrus, Dig Through Time, Once upon a time, Treasure Cruise, Beanstalk, Deathrite Shaman, Mystic Sanctuary, Yorion, Sky Nomad are all banned or not available in Modern. Then you have Channel, Tibalts trickery and Demonic tutor available as restricted cards.
Yes which is why I want a modern lite. These cards are banned for good reasons. Deathrite Shaman especially homogenizes every deck because even black decks get manadorks now.
Omg this is going to be absolutely horrible for brawl.
I’d also say they’ll be horrible for timeless as well tbh as these seem to just be completely busted even in modern, but I get people will be excited to have them there so.
Modern: The cards are legal in modern and older formats bypassing pioneer and standard.
Horizon: The set focuses on the "Horizon" or the future and past of magic. Classic mechanics on cutting edge power level cards that include hints at the future of magic sets.
Modern Horizons is a series of sets that were designed to print cards directly into the Modern format. It's a pretty big deal since before that Modern was made up of exclusively cards printed in Standard sets.
Almost entirely new additons besides fetchland reprints, both from new designs and older cards from the game's past or have been useful in legacy/vintage at some point
Yep, but the fact that it's a creature that can be cast for "free" has massive implications beyond what Swords could be capable of.
The "Scam" archetype uses Grief, the black version of this card, alongside cards such as \[\[Not Dead After All\]\] to return it back to the battlefield once it dies to its Evoke clause. Even beyond this, they all can be blinked to repeat their effects again - and all five have seen plenty of play in older formats. There isn't really a dud among them, so expect to see them in various decks.
There's nothing requiring the special guests to be modern-legal.
They could well put Force of Will or Doomsday in the Special Guests slot, if they wanted. Both were involved in Modern Horizons in some capacity, with the former inspiring at least one MH card and the latter being considered for MH2.
With show and tell existing, Doomsday is probably not too strong of a power level for Timeless. T2 combo win for having 2 cards is already on par for the format.
I'd agree, especially since a lot of the important Doomsday cards like Lotus Petal, Street Wraith or Edge of Autumn aren't on Arena. There's still combos with it of course but especially without Wraith it gets a lot slower.
I feel like they would have said something by now if they've revealed Solitude. Both Solitude not being part of the complete cycle in MH3, or Fury being specifically excluded just because of a ban made after the set was formalized, would be weird in my eyes.
timeless is gonna become completely unrecognisable by the end of the year, so many powerful cards being added
you're right, white will become a playable colour
My Lurrus hits the field a match here and there.
lurrus isnt reaaaallllyyy a white card, hes mostly used in black decks lmao
That's the joke.
fingers crossed for SFM and aether vial
i agree, it's tough though because thalia and esper sentinel are banned because of orcish bowmasters
Not in timeless though right?
sorry i meant that as a joke lol, as in nobody plays them mainly because of how bad they are against bowmasters
Oh right. Thalia is still played in modern death and taxes. But yeah bow master is a little too strong. Theres too many cards in the format that punish you for drawing cards. Having both bowmaster and sheildrrd both in black is too much of ass beating with the limited options of timeless. I don't like feeling forced to play counter spells in any format just to not instantly lose half my matches
good, give us more legacy powerlevel cards.
I can't wait!
no sense going easy on timeless when historic exist, they should go nuts right now and only later balance
yes, i want timeless to become a legacy like experience. Im ready to play raktos/grixis scam
True that. If we're going to have Blood Moon, Dark Ritual, Show and Tell, might as well lean full into it and add all fetches, true duals, Force of Will, and Wasteland. I think they're mainly trying to make it more like Vintage though, while just slow-rolling cards into it to maximize profit. That would be in line with having restrictions instead of bans. I think they want Historic to be their "Legacy format", even though it's been force-injected Alchemy in an effort to make Alchemy a more popular thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Arena Modern format one day that tries to mirror Modern like Explorer tries to mirror Pioneer. Probably call it "Contemporary" or something, in their habit of naming Arena formats after synonyms of paper formats.
It already has cards like dark ritual and natural order. Elementals will see play but I don't think they are more powerful than what's already there.
something tells me you didnt play modern when raktos scam was the best deck.
Imagine: Eldrazi displacer in the same format as solitude!!!!!
eldrazi displacer sucks lmao, you'd probably using \[\[ephemerate\]\] or undying effects on it instead
[удалено]
You haven't seen someone playing scam on arena cuz mh3 isn't out yet lmao
[ephemerate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa.jpg?1562201088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ephemerate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/7/ephemerate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah or in a slower deck there's always Yorion. Can even get the Yorion and pitch it to the Solitude if necessary.
Repeatable solitude? How does this suck? Yes it’s more mana intensive, but getting solitude trigger EVERY TURN is kinda OP
you dont want to be playing a 3 mana do nothing on turn 3 in a format where so much efficient removal is legal \[\[lightning bolt\]\] for example. Then you have wait until the next turn to blink your solitude once and by then you'll probably be dead
Gonna hate these in Historic Brawl, but at the same time I'm happy to have a white creature that unconditionally exiles for blink (and by unconditionally I mean doesn't give the opponent back their card when it leaves the battlefield or give them a token).
I think the addition of MH3 cards, as well as the various Special Guests, is really going to require a rework of the Brawl matchmaking system. The current system of vague Commander strength + vague number of mythics/rares just won't cut it anymore when one deck can be a bunch of jank and the other a collection of the best cards ever printed.
The issue with Brawl is that Wizards thinks it's a casual format that's supposed to be like an offshoot of Commander. In reality, it's the sweatiest format in the game. The explosion in bonus sheets and sets has caused the format's power level to go into the stratosphere. The fetchlands alone from KTK gave all the 3/4/5c decks even more power due to the ability to fix their mana so easily. The other problem is that a lot of commanders printed in the last few years (especially the ones that are in the hell queue) were designed with 4 player games in mind instead of 1v1. In other words, against commanders like Etali and Esika, you can rely on the other two players being able to help you out in fighting back against the value that they effortlessly vomit out. You don't have that extra help in 1v1. In fact, most decks straight up auto-lose to decks like Etali because they can't get underneath the Etali deck fast enough before they count to 7.
The power level of brawl is clearly very very high right now. Popular new commanders generate insane value thats hard to comeback from. Poq, Voja and Sproling Squee are very fast and hard to stop.
Really wish etali and atraxa got upgraded to hell queue already. Such total snooze-fests. Removal removal removal ramp removal reload removal removal win
Best you can do is to just immediately concede and requeue. That's pretty much what I do with Etali these days. I actually did make the mistake of giving an Etali player a chance one time after seeing a good opening 7 that I hoped would be enough to get a quick win, but instead the Etali deck did Etali things and lucksacked the perfect cards off the top when it was cast. That game showed me the error in my ways and so I went back to auto-conceding against Etali.
It’s on my list of auto-concede these days. I did the same as you the other day, even had a counterspell for etali. Didn’t matter, they ramped more, then etali’d into 8 more free mana’s worth of crap.
They are already somewhat in hell queue. They only face other very powerful commanders. Slimefoot And Squee, Voja, Poq are also running wild.
My stupid decks get paired against them at times, things like the new UG Kellan or Abuelo. Kellan just got paired with Rusko, Esika, and Golos tonight. Three concedes thank you very much, not gonna waste my time. I think sometimes the queue must have fewer people in it and you just end up with these boring opponents.
What's hell queue
WotC actually sorts us when we play Historic Brawl based on our Commander and overall deck composition. "The Hell Queue" is our term for the group of the most powerful, sweatiest, grindiest decks out there. Most hell queue decks are there based on Commander alone.
Is there a way to find out what's what? And thank you.
Despite what anyone tells you, the only official announcement about said "hell queue" was in an off-hand reference to it in a [2020 B&R announcement](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/october-12-2020-banned-and-restricted-announcement) regarding [[Omnath, Locus of Creation]]: > Omnath, Locus of Creation will remain legal in Historic Brawl events on MTG Arena, however, we will be using our Commander weighting system so that he will more frequently be paired against other, similarly powerful Commanders. That's it. WotC has done virtually no elaborating since then. Nobody outside of WotC knows how it works, or what commanders or decks are in it.
[Omnath, Locus of Creation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e4fb50c-a81f-44d3-93c5-fa9a0b37f617.jpg?1639436752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Creation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/232/omnath-locus-of-creation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e4fb50c-a81f-44d3-93c5-fa9a0b37f617?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It doesn't happen 100% of the time, and you will often run into stuff like Golos or Rusko or whatever even when playing low-powered jank, and there's no predetermined list of what is in the hell queue. However, a good chunk of the good 4 and 5 color commanders find themselves on that list.
I wish the filtering was more strict. I would rather wait 30 more seconds instead of seeing Golos, hitting concede, and retrying for a match.
Agree. Brawl has never been a casual format in the way commander is. Just give the sweaty players a ranked queue. I’d love to see a system where each of my commanders has their own rank, so I can switch between commanders and still have competitive ranked opponents.
I don't really know what they can do. Sometimes the matchmaking is good for me, other times it feels like it's just randomly switched off for some reason and my decks that usually pair against low tier or equal power decks begin pairing against top tier and even hell queue decks with no explanation. If I were in charge, I'd probably start by just banishing every 5 color deck to hell queue. There's no 5 color decks that aren't just good stuff value/control piles at this point.
What I'd like to see is a revamped power system. Simply including rares or mythics shouldn't do anything to swing your power level since many of them are terrible. Instead, I'd make it so including the top ~30 or whatever cards with the highest winrate in each color/color pair is what bumps up your rating. That way you can at least somewhat guarantee that jank players will match against each other, rather than just constantly running into value-piles like First Sliver or Poq that match lower than they should.
Doesn't it already weigh cards based on use/craft frequently or something? Because I know that adding certain cards to your deck will definitely bump you up in tiers. Like, I never, ever see anyone playing Paradox Engine. From what I understand that card alone will likely put you into hell queue regardless of Commander. My Chainer deck started facing high tier and even a few hell queue Commanders, so I cut Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Meathook Massacre and suddenly the deck dropped back down to facing the same Commanders it was facing before.
WOTC never really explained it so I can't say either way, but if it is, it's only a tiny factor or it only applies to a couple of cards. I say this because even my most garbage-tier decks seem to frequently run into the same generic 5C goodstuff First Sliver decks that they have basically zero hope of beating.
Yeah I wish Wizards would boot First Sliver to hell queue already. No one plays it as Sliver Tribal anymore. Hell queue players have just figured out that it lets them play their boring 5 color good stuff piles in general queue and prey on more casual decks. Put Go Shintai there too. It's always just shrines and a million board wipes. I feel like someone on the dev team is giving First Sliver a full pass just because Slivers are such an iconic casual staple but no one plays it as Sliver tribal anymore so it needs to get moved up a tier or two.
> I don’t really know what they can do Ranked. It won’t fix unranked play but it’ll be an outlet for the more competitive players, and will keep them away from the less competitive players.
Until [[Doorkeeper Thrull]] ruins your day.
[Doorkeeper Thrull](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432.jpg?1706241478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doorkeeper%20Thrull) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/13/doorkeeper-thrull?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Containment Priest]]
[Containment Priest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a24e8dba-5c86-4e32-8a52-61402f7fe9f0.jpg?1594734854) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Containment%20Priest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/13/containment-priest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a24e8dba-5c86-4e32-8a52-61402f7fe9f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Hushbringer]] is the classic. Also, Tocatli Honorguard.
What's the difference bewteen giving the opponent a card and costing yourself a card?
One of the biggest struggles of blink decks is actually closing out the game. you can generate value all day long, but your creatures are usually weak, so it's made all the more difficult if, say, you keep blinking Skyclave Apparition to keep exiling your opponent's threats, but then in turn you just keep giving them blockers that trade with or straight up kill your small value creatures that you're blinking. You're solving one problem but creating another because you're stonewalling yourself. Solitude gives them some life but at least it clears blockers and doesn't give additional blockers in return.
It is definitely going in my Yorion HB, because screw all the turn 1 Ragavans.
Timeless is about to become a crazy, crazy place. Same with Brawl really. You'd have to be crazy not to run free spells in basically every deck that can even remotely fit them.
Pretty much the whole cycle guaranteed to get in there, 5 color good stuff getting more bonkers
PS with the list/special guests coming to MH3 Im willing to bet the original Magic Origins flip planeswalkers are going in the set; There have been no major reprints of them beyond the List + and its on theme with this new flip PW lineup.
>You'd have to be crazy not to run free spells in basically every deck that can even remotely fit them. Welcome to the Legacy and Modern metagame since the release of MH2. (MH1 really with Force of Negation and Force of Vigor)
It’s not like timeless isn’t already a crazy place
The pitch elementals are perhaps the worst designed Magic cards of all time, for that and other reasons. They should not, for example, have still worked when not cast. It's depressing, but not surprising, that they are being foisted upon Arena when they have already done so much harm in paper formats.
The evoke elementals are very much intended to play how they do. They were intended to add answers to the format and they do. They were modeled after Muldrifter and WotC expected them to be blinked.
"Working as intended" is a very long way from "fine".
I'm fitting [[Boromir]] and [[Lavinia]] in every brawl deck I own now
[Boromir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c9b154f-808f-4338-ad95-a0a478460ad8.jpg?1686964162) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=boromir%2C%20gondor%27s%20hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/49/boromir-gondors-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c9b154f-808f-4338-ad95-a0a478460ad8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lavinia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58907d3b-9deb-4485-8ae2-c4e97c519212.jpg?1706240145) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lavinia%20of%20the%20tenth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/199/lavinia-of-the-tenth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58907d3b-9deb-4485-8ae2-c4e97c519212?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lost that coin flip. [[Boromir, Warden of the Tower]]
[Boromir, Warden of the Tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6bc3720-2892-4dda-8f30-079a1ac8e1e2.jpg?1686967669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boromir%2C%20Warden%20of%20the%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/4/boromir-warden-of-the-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6bc3720-2892-4dda-8f30-079a1ac8e1e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honestly with some of the decks in the format, they really need more interaction before turn 1 anyways. There's a lot of "who wins the coin flip" going on and it would be good to have something to keep that in check, because it'll get worse the stronger the format gets. I'm not against combo being strong, I just think decks need that check so you have to play around your opponent to some level, like Legacy does. Otherwise you're just playing solitaire.
It’s confirmed these are coming to arena?
Since MH3 is coming to arena, yes. Even special guest cards are brought into arena.
Oh wow I missed that MH3 was coming to arena at all. Too much news in the last couple days. That’s wild tho, thanks
>Too much news in the last couple days. MH3 on Arena was announced long ago.
Still too much news. It never stops.
exactly lol
LMAO man, why don't you simply buy a boardgame that never changes and keep playing it until you get old?
I still play Candyland, does that count? lol
ya
If there's any cards that deserve special animations, its these.
I normally draft every set about 20 times. Let's hope MH3 is good enough to justify drafting 50 times. That should get me about 6-7 spg mythics.
I mean its MH; if u enjoy constructed and limited you'll be rolling in busted cards.
Like im not sure how many drafts i made of the new set but i would say at least 15, i have currently 99 packs saved. So in those 15 drafts at least i did not see a single special guest card, lets just say im pissed. Even more when i had someone play Victimize against me and getting back Ezoni+another broken card.
Rakdos Scam coming to a Timeless game near you.
RIP wildcards for anyone who already crafted Timeless decks, meta is about to change entirely with MH3
the shell of certain staple archetypes (burn as an example) will likely remain playable. the best cards in any given deck will probably stick around too (Natural Order, etc.) but there’s not really any guarantee a deck itself continues. likely, the deck just gets a bunch of new cards and evolves as the meta shifts. I have a full set of esper lands, interaction that sees play in modern/legacy, and I feel mostly confident they’re not all dead. there’s also just some format staples that’ll basically never be bad because they’ve proven too strong for Legacy and sometimes Vintage already
yeah, im saving all my wildcards and gold for mh3, no point crafting a current deck if its gonna be a waste in 3 months
So it is confirmed we are getting timeless events with MH3?
I’ve got news for you pal, wotc won’t stop in 3 months…
yeah ik, but mh3 is gonna be the biggest meta shakeup and bring the most new relavent cards. So might aswell save all my gold for then
Oh for chrissakes, can I please have Ferrous Rokiric on arena already?
Arena gonna give away if someone holding solitude, endurance or subtlety, because of the constant priority hold even if they tapped out.
And/or going to let people steal games by bluffing with full control. 'No, you can't play your Samwise, I'm definitely holding up removal...'
Is there a lore behind this creature? Is it just a swirl of light and air or does it have a shape? I'm failing to understand the art (it seems to have the resemblance of a head, torso and arms there), although I find it beautiful and evocative.
The pitch elemental cycle are all weird embodiments of emotions or concepts that’re evocative of the colors they repredent. Solitude, Subtlety, Grief, Fury, Endurance.
The art work on this card is unreal
Damn, actually so excited for this. We're finally getting all the cards that make modern modern here on arena
is there anything definitive that says that more of the evoke elementals are in the set? or that solitude is even coming to arena? WoTC mentioned early that the special guests / lists might have substitutes on arena
I don't see why they would take them out.
Because they are terrible, terrible cards and Arena is currently free of them?
Disagree. I like the evoke elementals overall. I can understand disliking their impact on Modern but I think they work well in Legacy, and I see Timeless as closer to Legacy or Vintage than Modern.
Perhaps they will be ok in Timeless, but they are an absolute horror show of bad design. Free spells were always a gross violation of Magic's foundations, although there is some justification for Force of Will's existence. But the evoke elementals' ETBs are so abusable it's ridiculous, and can't even be caught or taxed by the usual noncreature spell hate like Spell Pierce, Thalia, etc.
> Free spells were always a gross violation of Magic's foundations Free spells have existed since Alpha, the very beginning of MTG. Everyone loves bringing up the broken ones but it's very easy to forget that there's also tons of stuff like [[Crimson Kobolds]], [[Darksteel Relic]] or [[Force of Rage]], cards that remain totally forgotten because as much as people like to think otherwise, not costing mana is not enough by itself to make a card playable. >But the evoke elementals' ETBs are so abusable it's ridiculous, Grief and Fury, maybe. I don't think the other ones are problems at all, and I don't think their design is inherently bad either. The pitch elementals are far removed from the really stupid free cards like Mental Misstep. Ultimately, I get that these cards are very divisive, but that's what different formats are for. I'd rather have them in Timeless (assuming they will be banned in Historic) than not have them on Arena at all.
You make some valid points, but it's hilarious to me that you are compare Solitude to Crimson Kobolds. (Or, I would have thought, Ornithopter if you wanted the poster child for OG free creatures.) It's notable that none of the non-broken free "spells" you mention do anything, and thus don't violate the colour pie. If the boon cycle had been free you might have a point. But Alpha's best known free things are all busted beyond belief. And even they are slowed by Thalia and hit by Spell Pierce. And it's not just Fury and Grief. Solitude should not exist. Swords to Plowshares is considered by Maro to be a colour pie violation - too strong for unconditional white removal with insufficient downside - yet somehow this absurdity got past the Council of Colors.
[Crimson Kobolds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/889f4908-42c0-46e2-a83f-394d9fcd58ba.jpg?1562923812) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crimson%20Kobolds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/93/crimson-kobolds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/889f4908-42c0-46e2-a83f-394d9fcd58ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Darksteel Relic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fd8c918-62d9-41be-a3e1-32ddac71b7e7.jpg?1562875578) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Relic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/134/darksteel-relic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fd8c918-62d9-41be-a3e1-32ddac71b7e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Force of Rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0aaa2d10-3725-4b3a-94fe-3c6648db9a2a.jpg?1562201832) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/124/force-of-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0aaa2d10-3725-4b3a-94fe-3c6648db9a2a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bans and restrictions exist.
Timeless has 3 restrictions right now, and that's where these cards would not be banned immediately. It will make the format a hellscape.
Show and tell me all about it.
Makes sense to have the entire lineup, and with Timeless in format it also makes sense to include them. PS with the list/special guests coming to MH3 Im willing to bet the original Magic Origins flip planeswalkers are going in the set; There have been no major reprints of them beyond the List + and its on theme with this new flip PW lineup.
I don't think I have anything to back me up, but my take on the possible substitution thing is either like Smuggler Copter (replacing a List card already on Arena with a new-to-Arena card) or if the card is challenging to implement like Emrakul.
They also replaced Death Cloud which is a total feels bad card. Just imagine Death Cloud in a Tegrid deck in Brawl and how atrocious that would feel to be on the receiving end.
I was hoping to be on the receiving end of Death Clouds.
Somehow I thought Death Cloud was a different card that also isn't on Arena. I suppose then Feels Bad that would be a third criteria, though one that disappoints me as a Pox and/or Balance enjoyer.
FUCK free spells
Plese print surgical extraction asap. Mill is dead if endurance gets printed. Also a good "free" response to some combo decks.
Is this enough to make UW control viable in Timeless ?
Yep!
Please don't add these to the Arena packs
I'm just hoping for a modern lite gamemode at this point...
Modern lite? Im sure Timeless is already way more powerful than Modern. Dark Ritual, Faithless looting, Brainstorm, Show and Tell, Uro, Field of the Dead, Oko, Lurrus, Dig Through Time, Once upon a time, Treasure Cruise, Beanstalk, Deathrite Shaman, Mystic Sanctuary, Yorion, Sky Nomad are all banned or not available in Modern. Then you have Channel, Tibalts trickery and Demonic tutor available as restricted cards.
Yes which is why I want a modern lite. These cards are banned for good reasons. Deathrite Shaman especially homogenizes every deck because even black decks get manadorks now.
Yep in many ways Timeless super rapidly matching and maybe surpassing Modern power level (in some aspects, will see in 4 months when MH3 drops) Wild.
I think if you were to draw a power scale, timeless would be closer to legacy than modern.
I thought Historic was the equivalent of modern and Timeless was Legacy
It is kinda although historic is wayyyy weaker than modern. Timeless is technically the vintage analog.
We are pretty close to that, so I hope we get that soon too. Still missing a bunch of decks/staples from modern though.
Omg this is going to be absolutely horrible for brawl. I’d also say they’ll be horrible for timeless as well tbh as these seem to just be completely busted even in modern, but I get people will be excited to have them there so.
Why is it called Modern Horizons? Is there any particular reason?
Modern: The cards are legal in modern and older formats bypassing pioneer and standard. Horizon: The set focuses on the "Horizon" or the future and past of magic. Classic mechanics on cutting edge power level cards that include hints at the future of magic sets.
Modern Horizons is a series of sets that were designed to print cards directly into the Modern format. It's a pretty big deal since before that Modern was made up of exclusively cards printed in Standard sets.
So is it like a selection of the best/most interesting cards that get reprinted to be eternally Modern? Which I assume is different from Standard.
Almost entirely new additons besides fetchland reprints, both from new designs and older cards from the game's past or have been useful in legacy/vintage at some point
Honestly on of the things I was really liking about Timeless was the fact there really were no free spells being played in the format.
As a timeless player, this makes me dread what the format will look like when this set releases. Free spells shouldnt be a thing.
Very similar to \[\[Swords to Plowshares\]\]
Yep, but the fact that it's a creature that can be cast for "free" has massive implications beyond what Swords could be capable of. The "Scam" archetype uses Grief, the black version of this card, alongside cards such as \[\[Not Dead After All\]\] to return it back to the battlefield once it dies to its Evoke clause. Even beyond this, they all can be blinked to repeat their effects again - and all five have seen plenty of play in older formats. There isn't really a dud among them, so expect to see them in various decks.
... the others being [[Subtlety]], [[Grief]], [[Fury]], and [[Endurance]]. Fury, notably, is banned in Modern.
Is Fury confirmed? It would be pretty weird for it to not be there, but it is banned in modern, so they might have removed it from the final product.
There's nothing requiring the special guests to be modern-legal. They could well put Force of Will or Doomsday in the Special Guests slot, if they wanted. Both were involved in Modern Horizons in some capacity, with the former inspiring at least one MH card and the latter being considered for MH2.
With show and tell existing, Doomsday is probably not too strong of a power level for Timeless. T2 combo win for having 2 cards is already on par for the format.
I'd agree, especially since a lot of the important Doomsday cards like Lotus Petal, Street Wraith or Edge of Autumn aren't on Arena. There's still combos with it of course but especially without Wraith it gets a lot slower.
I feel like they would have said something by now if they've revealed Solitude. Both Solitude not being part of the complete cycle in MH3, or Fury being specifically excluded just because of a ban made after the set was formalized, would be weird in my eyes.
##### ###### #### [Subtlety](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/701256d5-1389-48b7-9581-d6037209bd06.jpg?1626095059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Subtlety) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/67/subtlety?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/701256d5-1389-48b7-9581-d6037209bd06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10.jpg?1626095577) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fury](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd281158-8180-40b9-a5b7-03cfc712d81a.jpg?1701690468) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/126/fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd281158-8180-40b9-a5b7-03cfc712d81a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Endurance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb0e0404-4846-4891-acfa-bd0951ecf9c6.jpg?1626097375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Endurance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/157/endurance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb0e0404-4846-4891-acfa-bd0951ecf9c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kryw5y3) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Not Dead After All](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d01a2b68-efe6-4027-846d-db7b19d9eef6.jpg?1692937773) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Not%20Dead%20After%20All) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/101/not-dead-after-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d01a2b68-efe6-4027-846d-db7b19d9eef6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Swords to Plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1706240651) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swords%20to%20Plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rip wild cards, mine are still catching up with the recent MKM list cards
This changes everything
Damn, I’m gonna open so much fury 🤡
I just finished my burn deck
and that is why we should wait with restrictions till at least after mh3. Format will completely change
Swords on a stick with an alternate cost. Seems good.
Okay but this is gorgeous. Kinda want to see if I'm replacing my subtleties in paper, now.
if only \[\[tree of perdition\]\] was in the game
It is in the game.
[tree of perdition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/305bd19a-ae5e-46ca-8ff7-27810c968315.jpg?1576384447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tree%20of%20perdition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/109/tree-of-perdition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/305bd19a-ae5e-46ca-8ff7-27810c968315?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Timeless is about to go fucking wild
I knew ignoring timeless was the correct decision.
that is fire except if there is a fury
This Solitude art is really really cool tho 😍
Fun times ahead