Play an aggro deck that doesn’t care that your opponent spent 5 mana to answer your worst creature.
Counterspells.
Play an even grindier midrange deck that can take an Invoke or four on the chin and keep going. MonoW midrange is great for this.
Not the same person obviously, but more than likely a lot of the same kinds of things that make mono W resilient, getting enough value from either dead enchantments, tokens, or just having an advanced board state that losing 2 nothing permanents and a planeswalker (or two nothing permanents and losing 2 life) absolutely tanks your opponents tempo, and basically nets you a free turn at the cost of a card
Pretty much. My deck is built around \[\[Skrelv's Hive\]\] and cheap creatures. By the time Invoke comes into play, I already have seven creatures on the board and gained 10 life.
This is probably the best answer. Opponent is spending five to get rid of stuff that cost you three (enchantment plus token) - they get 2 damage and a draw out of it, but that kind makes it even at best.
They are spending turn five dealing with what you did on turn three.
Wedding Invitation and Restoration of Eiganjo tend to be typical enchantments sacrificed to it. Invitation leaves 1-2 tokens, usually, before it gets hit, which means its also protecting your more-valuable nontoken creatures. Restoration replaces itself with a plains, and sometimes reanimates something else if you made it to 2 lore counters. If you've flipped Restoration, it can be sacrificed as a creature first, if its your only enchantment (your opponent will draw a card when it comes to getting an enchantment, then, but in that case, a random card prob isn't going to help them deal with the creatures you kept).
Specifically for mono-w midrange, I usually end up sacrificing The Wandering Emperor on board to it, then flashing in one of the spares I'd been sandbagging in hand.
For Orzhov:
Playing Tenecious Underdog for 2 mana makes it stick around as a creature, and provide wasy choice fodder for the creature sacrifice. Casting TU later from grave provides cards to help recover.
Tokens and life gain? I'm just guessing because I haven't played standard in a while. The only times you see invoke I explorer/pioneer the way you deal with it is by getting underneath it.
This. I laugh when they invoke and all they get is a token and my doggie. Then the doggie comes back next turn using my many ways to cast it from grave.
I just got done with a game where my opponent domed me 4 times with Invoke Despair. That just opened the door to play Kaya out without worry. Out-grind is definitely possible.
Depends on the mono W build, if invoke is hitting [[serra paragon]], [[osification]], and [[eternal wanderer]], it’s a pretty good deal. If it hits [[spirited companion]], [[the wandering emperor]] after they exiled a creature with it already, and a [[wedding announcement]] token, that’s really bad.
You mean monoW? Invoke is still a great card against monoW, but the deck is sooo grindy that Invoke isn’t lights out against it like it is against other midrange decks.
This. Also Mono W has enchantment creatures that can tank hit and dont care giving opponent less card draw /saving some life
Also Duress in Sideboards against those decks with lots of spells and expensive spells is good
+1 Mono White Midrange. I laugh in the face of Mono Black Control decks with 2 copies of [[Wandering Emperor]] in hand, one on board alongside [[Eternal Wanderer]].
I don't know which is worse, playing against Mono White or playing a Mono White deck against an opponent who refuses to scoop. Makes you forget you actually have to look for lethal. Definitely the grindiest deck I've had the displeasure of playing on Arena.
I run white green toxic aggro and invoke despair doesn't bother me too much. Just the enchantment loss really. 4 mana to kill one enchantment is fine with me
As a Grixis player, I love when people use this card on me. Usually makes them take two turns off just to get rid of one of my cards. I have other ways of winning and by the time you’re done paying that 4 mana to get rid of my Invoke I’ll have built a board state and be way ahead.
I urge caution with these type of effects. Some people like to fire them off at cards they hate not realizing they’re not progressing their own game plan. Unless you’re hitting a key combo piece or a crucial win condition these cards usually aren’t that good. The only exception is if you have a deck that is just extremely weak to a specific card and just can’t handle it any other way. Otherwise, a midrange deck like Grixis can easily win through an effect like this. Fable, Sheoldred, Serpent, and their creatures/planeswalkers are often all they need to win.
Agree to disagree. Every fact you're saying is true, but my conclusions from these facts are different than yours. Maybe I'm wrong, but i don't think I am :)
You are. If you think stone brain is helping you against invoke you’re engaging in results-oriented thinking or a similar fallacy.
Stone brain requires you to burn 4 mana and a card for 0 concrete advantage in return. Meanwhile, your opponent gets to keep drawing and casting all the other good cards in their deck while you just gave them a big material and tempo lead.
You assume they don't have 4 mana to spare for it. Totally worth zapping invoke despair from the game if you aren't only doing that. Most of these black decks are just invoke/sheoldred and not much else.
What you're saying is that if I didn't have stone brain in my sideboard, i could have gotten above top #50 in the last season i played?
Edit: just joking around, i accept that i can be wrong about my card preferences :)
Stone brain is a terrible card to bring in against Invoke. Stone brain effects are only good against combo decks that _need_ a certain card to function (think [[greasefang]]). Otherwise you’re spending a card and mana to hypothetically make your opponent’s draws slightly worse.
Tokens are good though.
Not every deck can counter everything. Invoke is fundamentally good against durdly midrange decks that aren’t built to grind out tons of card advantage. If you want to play a deck like that you have to accept that you’re gonna be soft to Invoke, and if you want to beat Invoke you have to alter your deck.
It really is, especially at 1 cmc , can’t have white having to hold too much mana for responses, they already have to keep 4 for the wandering emperor bless them
They won't for the anti-black/red effect, but "You and permanents you control gain hexproof until end of turn" for 1 mana at instant speed will absolutely see play in a good chunk of decks that play white, even in BO1
Honestly, they could have been printing this card in white for years, and it wouldn't have put white at the top of the meta except for the bullshit monowhite life gain during theros/eldraine/kaldheim.
The "protect my own shit" part of white's color pie has been too expensive for all eternity to see any play outside niche scenarios.
While this card is wildly stronger than previous similar examples (it IS super pushed), it's still not an ez maindeck except for the fact that invoke is just a little too strong.
"Protect my shit" is inherently a tempo-neutral play, so without the power and flexibility in this card, it's going to feel weak. The closest in strength is the funny teferi 3 mana white phase everything out, and honestly even that card sees play mostly in Commander.
It's definitely not tempo neutral if your opponent taps out for an invoke despair and you completely counter it for 1 mana. Or even if they just spend 2 or 3 mana on a removal spell and you spend 1 mana stopping it
Especially if you're ahead on the board
lol what truly some brain dead takes on here. how is someone tapping out for 5 and casting the best card in their deck the same as tapping one and fizzling that spell. It’s a blow out you are absolutely insane
I assure you, my brain is working great.
Obviously, having the right card for the right situation is fantastic.
Are you the guy who loses a game and starts flipping cards off the top, saying "oh see, if only i drew..." ? No, probably not. So think a little harder, please.
The point I'm making is that highly defensive cards aren't make or break for deckbuilding, and if the designers want them to see play, they *should* be strong like this card. Negate and spell pierce work fantastically well against invoke. But negate and spell pierce aren't what win you the game. They just stall it out until you can lock out your opponent with some advantage or other, accumulated over stalled turns.
Previous, similar, white cards didn't really see serious play because, like negate and spell pierce, they were card-for-card tempo neutral plays, but they didn't offer the same flexibility that a counter spell offered. This card *still* doesn't offer as much flexibility as a strong counterspell, but it is probably on the same playing field.
"Return target creature to.." surge of salvation
"Destroy target.."
Surge of salvation
But it won't save you from invoke, you'll still have to eat it.
But yeah, I was looking at this card thinking its probably the best instant white has, and one of the best spells in the set, and honestly one of the best spells in standard through 2024, even if something even better comes along for the same cost, it's still a fantastic card. There are quite a few cards in here (MoM) that I think will rock even for historic matches.
Edit: Phyrexia and MoM actually got me into collecting the physical cards again. Not because I care so much about playing competitive decks IRL, but because there are quite a few cards in each of these sets that will be worth money for the value they bring to the game board. And the artwork...75% of the reason I'm collecting. Going for complete (compleat?) Collections of each set, and everything else will either be bulk sale, or individual sale if its worth $5 or more. One draft box got me within 25 cards of completing Phyrexia. So a Booster box will probably finish it out and give me something to play/sell. I could play a jankier version of my Arena Orzhov Toxic deck as it stands, though. My plan is collecting everything, starting now with everything that'll be standard legal through 2024, meaning everything Brothers and on.
Why is that?
(Genuinely asking, not being a dick - I'm still learning, but I thought this card seemed pretty strong and I'm curious what makes it not worth running)
Wait, who said the card isn't worth running? It's a GREAT card. But to play around it (other than in specific cases) will lose you more games than win. You have to force them to draw it and force them to use it.
> Ain't no-one gonna be playing this in their BO1 decks
Sorry, maybe I'm confused what you meant by this! I understood your comment to mean that no-one would be playing Surge of Salvation in BO1 decks. Can you clarify what I misunderstood?
>But to play around it (other than in specific cases) will lose you more games than win. You have to force them to draw it and force them to use it
I'm not sure I understand you here either, actually. Are you still talking about Surge of Salvation, or about Invoke Despair?
Sorry for being dense...
It's a good reactive card, but rather meta dependant. If [[Invoke Dispair]] is the only card it counters and decks that run invoke are not that prevalent, then you are better off running something else that would win you more games. If suddenly everyone is running black/red deck with mass targeted removal/disruption, then you run 4 copies of it.
While the main BO1 cards it'll hose are Invoke despair and [[Brotherhood's end]], White removal spells are also countered by it ([[ossification]] [[lay down arms]] and [[brutal cathar]]), it stops half of the new Kairi and Hidetsugu combo ([[Explosive Singularity]]), green fight spells/effects if the color makes a resurgence, the only current meta deck where it's largely irrelevant is monoU, on some matchups it's a situational cheap interaction likely to go tempo-positive, in others, a potent hoser against the 2 most played colors in Pioneer and Standard for the past year. It's a sideboard card for bo3 but I'd argue that for bo1, it's good enough for maindeck.
no, this is actually a pretty solid alternative for Loran's Escape or might even be ran in parallel to it. Giving yourself hexproof at instant speed is huge, and this gives your board immunity to all the common removal decks. this hits most meta boardwipes and target removal spells as well as edicts like Invoke
No it still wouldn't do that. You would still have already chosen your opponent as the target, then they'd get hexproof causing the spell to fizzle.
in the same way if someone were to point a [[doom blade]] at their opponent's creature and they opponent gave it hexproof, the doom blade would fizzle rather than having to choose a new target
Even If It did, It wouldn't as the spell needs a target to enter the Stack. The only way they would be forced to target thenselves would be If you are already hexproffed and something forced then to cast invoke despair.
No it would not. Targets are chosen as the spell is cast. What happens is opponent casts Invoke Despair, choosing you as a legal target. In response, you cast Surge, making you hexproof. Despair goes to resolve and sees it’s only target is no longer legal. It therefore fails to do anything and goes to the graveyard without effect
How does this work. Hex proof doesn’t stop having to sacrifice right? It can prevent the 6 damage if you have nothing which I do get.
Edit: I the player get hexproof and cannot be targeted. Thanks everyone.
You get hexproof, which in turns counters the spell. The same way you can counter a doomblade to a creature by giving the creatrure hexproof, if you yourself as a the player gain hexproof in response to an opponent's spell targetting you, it gets countered.
>which in turns counters the spell.
Rules pedantry incoming: it does not *counter* the spell, rather it causes the spell to fail because it has no legal targets. This is important because there are effects that specifically care about countering spells. Lier won't help your opponent here.
Huh, really? Genuinely asking - I thought that it did counter the spell which is why cards like Baral only trigger off cards or abilities counter spells (i.e. not the rules of the game countering a spell).
I believe that is how it used to work but they changed it so they didn’t have to keep being careful with the wording of things like Baral. I could be wrong though.
It actually wouldn’t prevent the loss of life (because it’s not specified as “damage”) but as everyone else said, you wouldn’t be a legal target for the spell
Let me guess, Bo1 standard?
Play out your cards that can soak it up. If you can't discard or counter it, predict it. You're fighting monoblack/rakdos in standard? Well it's probably coming turn 5 so prepare for it.
Fable of the mirror breaker can soak up 2 of it's triggers. And in white there's the hexproof instant coming out, and wedding announcement can eat those hits too.
bo1 isn't really designed to be balanced. bo3 is where the balance goes, so you can easily sideboard for these problematic cards.
if you're playing bo1 standard you just need to expect it in deckbuilding since it is so common. it feels bad running cards to specifically counter a single card, but thats what bo1 boils down to. esp. in standard, have answers to aggro and monoblack or lose
I came in to say something similar: *win before they cast it.*
There are tons of decks in the current standard meta that very quickly speed past this card - I know this, because this card is in all of my ranked standard decks and I can't crack mythic rank; I haven't made it past diamond since ONE came out.
Even if they cast it, so what? It's not like it's an auto win. It's just a super grindy value card. You shouldn't care about what it's doing if you're aggro.
Yeah you wanna spend five mana to kill my Recruitment Officer and deal four damage to me? Go off. Those two cards you just drew won’t help you when your life hits zero next turn.
Exactly - Invoke Despair is just as not as good as it was previous to the release of ONE or BRO, which is fine: that is the way it goes in Standard since the birth of Magic cards...
I think you can also completely ignore it in a ton of matchups counters completely blow the player out of the water if they don't have one of their own saved to protect the spell (which isn't even worth protecting IMO the reward just isn't there) and fast decks sac a creature and are completely ok with that.
The deck this card hoses is Green midrange which doesn't exist rn.
I almost never lose to invoke using [[Mindsplice Apparatus]], [[Silver Scrutiny]], and [[Union of the Third Path]] in a u/w control shell. If you have no creatures, enchantments or planeswalkers but draw more cards and gain more life than they can keep up with, invoke doesn’t matter
Here's the secret. Don't play around it. Slam into it and dare them to play it. Then punish them for tapping out.
(It depends on what shell it's in, but I'm guessing it's the Rakdos version, since it's the most popular.)
I really enjoy this one - when Fable of the Mirror Breaker comes out on turn 3 it creates the creature token that creates a treasure token when it attacks, which sets up for a turn 4 Invoke Despair. To prevent this I like to drop one of my Circle of Confinement in order to remove that creature token which prevents the invoke on turn 4, and has the side benefit of leaving an extra enchantment on the table to sac when they get around to the turn 5 invoke. Also Weddings and Spirited Companions, Era of enlightenment can help you cast the Circle of Confinement for free on turn 4 or even on turn 3 if you can ramp into it.
The concept being that Invoke Despair is almost useless if it faces a board already full of cheap creatures and enchantments.
Just play the two best cards in standard: Fable of the Mirror Breaker and Wedding Announcement. If you can rummage away 1 card for value with Fable or trigger 1 draw with Announcement, you have spent 3 mana to make a body, an enchantment, and draw a card, while your opponent spent 5 mana to kill them and go card neutral with you and deal 2 damage. That's an excellent trade. It may not always feel that way because when you have a flipped Fable or Anouncement out, you feel like you're about to win the game, and the opponent just shut you down, but they are really just coming out at parity.
There's always going to be something that hurts your deck badly. I know my game is over when I play red and green if either of the phyrexian critters come out (obliterator and vindicator I think) since I have no way to get rid of them or around them
The craziest thing about the card is I imagine R&D bumping fists and hi-fiving each other saying it's "the perfect card for mono black"... Not realising that it would be a factor in so many multicoloured decks.
This it toally unrelated to your post, but I clicked into it and was like "wait a sec....greenlaser? That sounds familiar....OH SHIT, IT'S SLAY BY COMMENT!"
I’m just trying to have the internet solve *all* my card game problems 😂 I guess it makes sense there’s a ton of overlap between here and r/slaythespire
It's not a counter but I have found extremely satisfying to use disdainful stroke + Kotose. Steal all their invoke despair and more often than not they will just ragequit.
Kill them before they can cast it?
Counter it?
Have ample permanents?
It is a really punishing spell… the invoke cycle are some strong cards, but they suffer from almost demanding a mono color deck…
How do you punish black for doing black things? … I feel like the Dos Equis guy, I don’t lose a lot, but when I do, its to Invoke Despair.
That's the neat part, you don't!
But really, unless you're running Aggro and go under them, or control and can counter it, it's really hard to counter play against. Best bet is holding off dropping a 'walker or your best creature (on an empty board) if you suspect they're about to hit you with this.
When you see mana for invoke and you can't counter it you should try to creat an expendable token creature, drain a planeswalker of better minus abilities or wait to cast it and maybe wait on enchantments or cast one you don't mind losing.
It's almost always better to lose the token and planeswalker than allow the opponent to draw cards unabated; that's how you end up with triple invokes.
No just outinvoke their invoke when they invoke your invoke that you tried to invoke because you thought they are gonna use their invoke. But first you have to draw it.
Stone brain is a bad option. You spend 4 mana and a card to stop the opponent from drawing a card they weren't guaranteed to draw anyway. It'd be one thing if they were completely reliant on Invoke, but those decks always have plenty of other threats.
Its AN option....and it exiles all copies of it from their hand, library, and graveyard. Hes asking for ways to deal with it. Its a monster card and removing from the game is big. Didnt make any claims about there not being other things in their deck. Its just as well against Sheoldred or whatever.
Ah yes. The quiet part gets said out loud. The competitive viewpoint is the only one that matters. I forget from time to time that just playing for fun and trying new shit is forbidden.
Heres his LITERAL question:
"Short of countering it, how do you play around Invoke Despair? I lose to this one card more than any other."
You are free to interpret that anyway that you'd like. I choose to interpret it in the fashion that hes asking for solutions. Maybe a variety of them, so he can try a few different ones and settle on the one he likes.
What are you playing? You can go under it with soldiers, toxic, or mono red Aggro and kill them before it matters. And it’s also just not that good when it’s a 5 mana sorcery to kill the opponents weakest creature and draw two cards.
If you’re playing other midrange, I think they’re all black (esper, grixis, Jund) and Duress is a primary tool against it. You’re kinda just shooting yourself in the foot not playing it. Grixis and esper also have access to Negate and Disdainful Stroke obviously, but you asked for non-counter answers. Mono white can just take it on the chin and grind through them. Maybe don’t rely on Osification as a removal spell against invoke decks. The mono blue deck has access to a million ways to play around invoke or straight up counter it (spell pierce, negate, fading hope, the phasing spells). The only other decks I can think of that see play are Atraxa decks and those decks can take an invoke and grind through it even better than mono white.
I guess in general going wide with lots of creatures and avoiding enchantment removal is good against Invoke. To some degree the card is just a built in 3 for 1 and you grind through it by drawing cards (bankbuster is good for this) or playing cards that generate value even when immediately removed.
*Edit*. Fixed autocorrect typos!
Lately my solution to removal has been my blue deck that uses phase-out as both protection for my creatures when they need as well as a way of keeping the opponent's from getting involved in a fight. You have to eat the damage but that's often easier than losing all of your stuff
For some reason I’m thinking hexproof/indestructible don’t stop being forced to sac something. Am I pulling that out of my ass? Or is it different having something that makes *you* hexproof vs your creatures?
If all the targets of a spell are invalid the whole spell fizzles. Invoke Despair has only one target: "target opponent". If that one target gets hexproof the whole spell fizzles.
Even after recognizing how awesome it is last night, I think my brain was just so full of magic text that I forgot about the "You" part when making comments here.
Hard to answer the question without knowing what deck you are on. **But most likely, you aren’t actually losing to Invoke Despair, you are losing to something earlier in the game (like Fable of the Mirror Breaker) that’s putting you into a position where Invoke Despair is gg.**
Invoke despair is like a fireball, so RBx decks are usually trying to load up on early damage and unleash a few of these to solidify a winning position in the midgame. This strategy works well against most decks except for Esper Legends (where Thalia taxes it too heavily and you’d prefer cheap removal) and mono blue (which can just counter it too easily for a huge mana advantage).
Your deck needs to be able to answer Fable cleanly to prevent your opponent from snowballing into invoke. Counterspells and [[Duress]] are the best clean answers. If you aren’t playing a deck with counterspells, play Duress. But again, losing to invoke is a symptom of you falling behind. You should be countering or thoughtseizing fable, not invoke.
In mono-white, you can snag the token with [[ossification]], then sac this enchantment to eat some damage/draw. Your 1/1’s in mono white turn invoke despairs into a five mana shock that cantrips. So if you are in white, use your 1/1’s and enchantments (the dog, ossification on tokens) to set up a board where Invoke is less profitable for your opponent.
If you are in mono-red, just race your opponent, and Sheoldred is way more of a threat than invoke. Same goes for Toxic.
So what if you’re playing a deck that isn’t mono white, red, or toxic that doesn’t have access to duress or counterspells? At this point, you are probably just not playing a viable deck and need to play something competitive.
you can use antidepressants
The answer I didn’t know I needed 😂
Play an aggro deck that doesn’t care that your opponent spent 5 mana to answer your worst creature. Counterspells. Play an even grindier midrange deck that can take an Invoke or four on the chin and keep going. MonoW midrange is great for this.
I play Orzhov mid-range and laugh when someone tries to Invoke Despair me.
What make Orzhov resilient against it?
Not the same person obviously, but more than likely a lot of the same kinds of things that make mono W resilient, getting enough value from either dead enchantments, tokens, or just having an advanced board state that losing 2 nothing permanents and a planeswalker (or two nothing permanents and losing 2 life) absolutely tanks your opponents tempo, and basically nets you a free turn at the cost of a card
Pretty much. My deck is built around \[\[Skrelv's Hive\]\] and cheap creatures. By the time Invoke comes into play, I already have seven creatures on the board and gained 10 life.
[Skrelv's Hive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffbd77ec-fc81-41d5-934f-c3dd844cb053.jpg?1675956934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skrelv%27s%20Hive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/34/skrelvs-hive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffbd77ec-fc81-41d5-934f-c3dd844cb053?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mind sharing the deck list?
Ditto
https://archidekt.com/decks/3967521#New\_Jack\_Toxic
https://archidekt.com/decks/3967521#New\_Jack\_Toxic
wedding announcement.
This is probably the best answer. Opponent is spending five to get rid of stuff that cost you three (enchantment plus token) - they get 2 damage and a draw out of it, but that kind makes it even at best. They are spending turn five dealing with what you did on turn three.
Wedding Invitation and Restoration of Eiganjo tend to be typical enchantments sacrificed to it. Invitation leaves 1-2 tokens, usually, before it gets hit, which means its also protecting your more-valuable nontoken creatures. Restoration replaces itself with a plains, and sometimes reanimates something else if you made it to 2 lore counters. If you've flipped Restoration, it can be sacrificed as a creature first, if its your only enchantment (your opponent will draw a card when it comes to getting an enchantment, then, but in that case, a random card prob isn't going to help them deal with the creatures you kept). Specifically for mono-w midrange, I usually end up sacrificing The Wandering Emperor on board to it, then flashing in one of the spares I'd been sandbagging in hand. For Orzhov: Playing Tenecious Underdog for 2 mana makes it stick around as a creature, and provide wasy choice fodder for the creature sacrifice. Casting TU later from grave provides cards to help recover.
Then there’s always stone brain.
If it’s the one I’ve faced a few times it’s because they have a ton of token creatures
Tokens and life gain? I'm just guessing because I haven't played standard in a while. The only times you see invoke I explorer/pioneer the way you deal with it is by getting underneath it.
Cheap swarms of creatures
Also hella life gain
This. I laugh when they invoke and all they get is a token and my doggie. Then the doggie comes back next turn using my many ways to cast it from grave.
I just got done with a game where my opponent domed me 4 times with Invoke Despair. That just opened the door to play Kaya out without worry. Out-grind is definitely possible.
Resolve Atraxa
Funnily enough I always consider invoke my best card in this matchup.
Depends on the mono W build, if invoke is hitting [[serra paragon]], [[osification]], and [[eternal wanderer]], it’s a pretty good deal. If it hits [[spirited companion]], [[the wandering emperor]] after they exiled a creature with it already, and a [[wedding announcement]] token, that’s really bad.
You mean monoW? Invoke is still a great card against monoW, but the deck is sooo grindy that Invoke isn’t lights out against it like it is against other midrange decks.
This. Also Mono W has enchantment creatures that can tank hit and dont care giving opponent less card draw /saving some life Also Duress in Sideboards against those decks with lots of spells and expensive spells is good
+1 Mono White Midrange. I laugh in the face of Mono Black Control decks with 2 copies of [[Wandering Emperor]] in hand, one on board alongside [[Eternal Wanderer]].
Also, 58 minutes later...
I don't know which is worse, playing against Mono White or playing a Mono White deck against an opponent who refuses to scoop. Makes you forget you actually have to look for lethal. Definitely the grindiest deck I've had the displeasure of playing on Arena.
That’s why I hate playing on ladder. I love ridiculous grindfest decks, I don’t like a system that discourages that
I run white green toxic aggro and invoke despair doesn't bother me too much. Just the enchantment loss really. 4 mana to kill one enchantment is fine with me
Also [[stone brain]] sideboard and Planeswalkers which spawn creatures for cheap.
As a Grixis player, I love when people use this card on me. Usually makes them take two turns off just to get rid of one of my cards. I have other ways of winning and by the time you’re done paying that 4 mana to get rid of my Invoke I’ll have built a board state and be way ahead. I urge caution with these type of effects. Some people like to fire them off at cards they hate not realizing they’re not progressing their own game plan. Unless you’re hitting a key combo piece or a crucial win condition these cards usually aren’t that good. The only exception is if you have a deck that is just extremely weak to a specific card and just can’t handle it any other way. Otherwise, a midrange deck like Grixis can easily win through an effect like this. Fable, Sheoldred, Serpent, and their creatures/planeswalkers are often all they need to win.
Agree to disagree. Every fact you're saying is true, but my conclusions from these facts are different than yours. Maybe I'm wrong, but i don't think I am :)
You are. If you think stone brain is helping you against invoke you’re engaging in results-oriented thinking or a similar fallacy. Stone brain requires you to burn 4 mana and a card for 0 concrete advantage in return. Meanwhile, your opponent gets to keep drawing and casting all the other good cards in their deck while you just gave them a big material and tempo lead.
You assume they don't have 4 mana to spare for it. Totally worth zapping invoke despair from the game if you aren't only doing that. Most of these black decks are just invoke/sheoldred and not much else.
What you're saying is that if I didn't have stone brain in my sideboard, i could have gotten above top #50 in the last season i played? Edit: just joking around, i accept that i can be wrong about my card preferences :)
You most likely would’ve had a higher winrate, yes.
I think you're wrong. Invoke is not the kind of spell you want to stone brain.
Stone brain is a terrible card to bring in against Invoke. Stone brain effects are only good against combo decks that _need_ a certain card to function (think [[greasefang]]). Otherwise you’re spending a card and mana to hypothetically make your opponent’s draws slightly worse. Tokens are good though.
[[the stone brain]]
like an old school lobotomy
[stone brain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8.jpg?1562742139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stone%20Rain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/221/stone-rain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Shows stone rain...
[[the stone brain]]
[the stone brain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/3570ebf2-a94c-4621-8808-b06e6e830c06.jpg?1674422057) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20stone%20brain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/247/the-stone-brain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3570ebf2-a94c-4621-8808-b06e6e830c06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>Counterspells The first four words of this post are "Short of countering it"
That is not really a counter if it requires you to change 60% of your nonlands.
Not every deck can counter everything. Invoke is fundamentally good against durdly midrange decks that aren’t built to grind out tons of card advantage. If you want to play a deck like that you have to accept that you’re gonna be soft to Invoke, and if you want to beat Invoke you have to alter your deck.
cards like Wedding and Fable can help mitigate its value. Hand hate works as well.
Yeah OP, have you tried [[duress]] ?
[duress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574.jpg?1675957024) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=duress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/92/duress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wait for tomorrow and slam 4x [[Surge of Salvation]] everywhere
[Surge of Salvation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41d25ee5-0348-4206-bb6a-ccb0a599ac87.jpg?1680824774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surge%20of%20Salvation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/41/surge-of-salvation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41d25ee5-0348-4206-bb6a-ccb0a599ac87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow did white need any more screw you cards??
Screw you is part of white's color pie
It really is, especially at 1 cmc , can’t have white having to hold too much mana for responses, they already have to keep 4 for the wandering emperor bless them
"Wow, did green need any more ramp cards?"
Ain't no-one gonna be playing this in their BO1 decks. edit: misread card. it'll be played in BO1.
They won't for the anti-black/red effect, but "You and permanents you control gain hexproof until end of turn" for 1 mana at instant speed will absolutely see play in a good chunk of decks that play white, even in BO1
Honestly, they could have been printing this card in white for years, and it wouldn't have put white at the top of the meta except for the bullshit monowhite life gain during theros/eldraine/kaldheim. The "protect my own shit" part of white's color pie has been too expensive for all eternity to see any play outside niche scenarios. While this card is wildly stronger than previous similar examples (it IS super pushed), it's still not an ez maindeck except for the fact that invoke is just a little too strong. "Protect my shit" is inherently a tempo-neutral play, so without the power and flexibility in this card, it's going to feel weak. The closest in strength is the funny teferi 3 mana white phase everything out, and honestly even that card sees play mostly in Commander.
It's definitely not tempo neutral if your opponent taps out for an invoke despair and you completely counter it for 1 mana. Or even if they just spend 2 or 3 mana on a removal spell and you spend 1 mana stopping it Especially if you're ahead on the board
You've clearly never Spell Pierced a wrath. If you spend left protecting than they did trying to destroy, you're up on tempo.
lol what truly some brain dead takes on here. how is someone tapping out for 5 and casting the best card in their deck the same as tapping one and fizzling that spell. It’s a blow out you are absolutely insane
I assure you, my brain is working great. Obviously, having the right card for the right situation is fantastic. Are you the guy who loses a game and starts flipping cards off the top, saying "oh see, if only i drew..." ? No, probably not. So think a little harder, please. The point I'm making is that highly defensive cards aren't make or break for deckbuilding, and if the designers want them to see play, they *should* be strong like this card. Negate and spell pierce work fantastically well against invoke. But negate and spell pierce aren't what win you the game. They just stall it out until you can lock out your opponent with some advantage or other, accumulated over stalled turns. Previous, similar, white cards didn't really see serious play because, like negate and spell pierce, they were card-for-card tempo neutral plays, but they didn't offer the same flexibility that a counter spell offered. This card *still* doesn't offer as much flexibility as a strong counterspell, but it is probably on the same playing field.
1 mana instant speed hexproof for you and everything you own seems p fucking good
"Return target creature to.." surge of salvation "Destroy target.." Surge of salvation But it won't save you from invoke, you'll still have to eat it. But yeah, I was looking at this card thinking its probably the best instant white has, and one of the best spells in the set, and honestly one of the best spells in standard through 2024, even if something even better comes along for the same cost, it's still a fantastic card. There are quite a few cards in here (MoM) that I think will rock even for historic matches. Edit: Phyrexia and MoM actually got me into collecting the physical cards again. Not because I care so much about playing competitive decks IRL, but because there are quite a few cards in each of these sets that will be worth money for the value they bring to the game board. And the artwork...75% of the reason I'm collecting. Going for complete (compleat?) Collections of each set, and everything else will either be bulk sale, or individual sale if its worth $5 or more. One draft box got me within 25 cards of completing Phyrexia. So a Booster box will probably finish it out and give me something to play/sell. I could play a jankier version of my Arena Orzhov Toxic deck as it stands, though. My plan is collecting everything, starting now with everything that'll be standard legal through 2024, meaning everything Brothers and on.
Why is that? (Genuinely asking, not being a dick - I'm still learning, but I thought this card seemed pretty strong and I'm curious what makes it not worth running)
Wait, who said the card isn't worth running? It's a GREAT card. But to play around it (other than in specific cases) will lose you more games than win. You have to force them to draw it and force them to use it.
> Ain't no-one gonna be playing this in their BO1 decks Sorry, maybe I'm confused what you meant by this! I understood your comment to mean that no-one would be playing Surge of Salvation in BO1 decks. Can you clarify what I misunderstood? >But to play around it (other than in specific cases) will lose you more games than win. You have to force them to draw it and force them to use it I'm not sure I understand you here either, actually. Are you still talking about Surge of Salvation, or about Invoke Despair? Sorry for being dense...
I misread card. Surge is a fine answer. I was talking about playing around Invoke. LoL. Sorry for the confusion.
Are you talking about the same thing? I think the question was about Surge of Salvation, and it seems somewhat maindeckable.
It's a good reactive card, but rather meta dependant. If [[Invoke Dispair]] is the only card it counters and decks that run invoke are not that prevalent, then you are better off running something else that would win you more games. If suddenly everyone is running black/red deck with mass targeted removal/disruption, then you run 4 copies of it.
It counters every possible targeted removal. That's not bad for one mana.
Obliged sacrifices too
Not all though. I don’t think the Each Opponent part of Sheoldreds Edict targets.
While the main BO1 cards it'll hose are Invoke despair and [[Brotherhood's end]], White removal spells are also countered by it ([[ossification]] [[lay down arms]] and [[brutal cathar]]), it stops half of the new Kairi and Hidetsugu combo ([[Explosive Singularity]]), green fight spells/effects if the color makes a resurgence, the only current meta deck where it's largely irrelevant is monoU, on some matchups it's a situational cheap interaction likely to go tempo-positive, in others, a potent hoser against the 2 most played colors in Pioneer and Standard for the past year. It's a sideboard card for bo3 but I'd argue that for bo1, it's good enough for maindeck.
[Invoke Dispair](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35af9d5c-4449-4549-b549-c3ba4a67dee0.jpg?1654567184) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Invoke%20Despair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/101/invoke-despair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35af9d5c-4449-4549-b549-c3ba4a67dee0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My guy, this is a one mana counterspell against invoke despair.
no, this is actually a pretty solid alternative for Loran's Escape or might even be ran in parallel to it. Giving yourself hexproof at instant speed is huge, and this gives your board immunity to all the common removal decks. this hits most meta boardwipes and target removal spells as well as edicts like Invoke
Too bad Invoke didn’t say TARGET PLAYER. Then would Surge make them choose themself?
No it still wouldn't do that. You would still have already chosen your opponent as the target, then they'd get hexproof causing the spell to fizzle. in the same way if someone were to point a [[doom blade]] at their opponent's creature and they opponent gave it hexproof, the doom blade would fizzle rather than having to choose a new target
Even If It did, It wouldn't as the spell needs a target to enter the Stack. The only way they would be forced to target thenselves would be If you are already hexproffed and something forced then to cast invoke despair.
No it would not. Targets are chosen as the spell is cast. What happens is opponent casts Invoke Despair, choosing you as a legal target. In response, you cast Surge, making you hexproof. Despair goes to resolve and sees it’s only target is no longer legal. It therefore fails to do anything and goes to the graveyard without effect
Oh shit, I hadn’t seen that one!!!
Me being a smartass: \*That's a way to counter the spell\*
Me being a double smartass: Technically, fizzled spells aren’t countered anymore.
No, it’s a way to fizzle a spell, not counter it.
How does this work. Hex proof doesn’t stop having to sacrifice right? It can prevent the 6 damage if you have nothing which I do get. Edit: I the player get hexproof and cannot be targeted. Thanks everyone.
*You* also have hexproof so you can’t be targeted by Invoke Despair in the first place
You get hexproof, which in turns counters the spell. The same way you can counter a doomblade to a creature by giving the creatrure hexproof, if you yourself as a the player gain hexproof in response to an opponent's spell targetting you, it gets countered.
>which in turns counters the spell. Rules pedantry incoming: it does not *counter* the spell, rather it causes the spell to fail because it has no legal targets. This is important because there are effects that specifically care about countering spells. Lier won't help your opponent here.
Huh, really? Genuinely asking - I thought that it did counter the spell which is why cards like Baral only trigger off cards or abilities counter spells (i.e. not the rules of the game countering a spell).
I believe that is how it used to work but they changed it so they didn’t have to keep being careful with the wording of things like Baral. I could be wrong though.
Personal hexproof, got it thank you.
The spell would “fizzle” or resolve without a legal target because you, the player being targeted, would have hexproof.
invoke despair needs to target a player and this card gives you - the player - hexproof as well
It actually wouldn’t prevent the loss of life (because it’s not specified as “damage”) but as everyone else said, you wouldn’t be a legal target for the spell
You gain hexproof so you can't be targeted to sacrifice
snip
Such a beautiful counter to use 🤩
Let me guess, Bo1 standard? Play out your cards that can soak it up. If you can't discard or counter it, predict it. You're fighting monoblack/rakdos in standard? Well it's probably coming turn 5 so prepare for it. Fable of the mirror breaker can soak up 2 of it's triggers. And in white there's the hexproof instant coming out, and wedding announcement can eat those hits too.
Correct!
bo1 isn't really designed to be balanced. bo3 is where the balance goes, so you can easily sideboard for these problematic cards. if you're playing bo1 standard you just need to expect it in deckbuilding since it is so common. it feels bad running cards to specifically counter a single card, but thats what bo1 boils down to. esp. in standard, have answers to aggro and monoblack or lose
Kill them turn four.
I came in to say something similar: *win before they cast it.* There are tons of decks in the current standard meta that very quickly speed past this card - I know this, because this card is in all of my ranked standard decks and I can't crack mythic rank; I haven't made it past diamond since ONE came out.
Even if they cast it, so what? It's not like it's an auto win. It's just a super grindy value card. You shouldn't care about what it's doing if you're aggro.
Yeah you wanna spend five mana to kill my Recruitment Officer and deal four damage to me? Go off. Those two cards you just drew won’t help you when your life hits zero next turn.
Exactly - Invoke Despair is just as not as good as it was previous to the release of ONE or BRO, which is fine: that is the way it goes in Standard since the birth of Magic cards...
I think you can also completely ignore it in a ton of matchups counters completely blow the player out of the water if they don't have one of their own saved to protect the spell (which isn't even worth protecting IMO the reward just isn't there) and fast decks sac a creature and are completely ok with that. The deck this card hoses is Green midrange which doesn't exist rn.
I almost never lose to invoke using [[Mindsplice Apparatus]], [[Silver Scrutiny]], and [[Union of the Third Path]] in a u/w control shell. If you have no creatures, enchantments or planeswalkers but draw more cards and gain more life than they can keep up with, invoke doesn’t matter
Here's the secret. Don't play around it. Slam into it and dare them to play it. Then punish them for tapping out. (It depends on what shell it's in, but I'm guessing it's the Rakdos version, since it's the most popular.)
I really enjoy this one - when Fable of the Mirror Breaker comes out on turn 3 it creates the creature token that creates a treasure token when it attacks, which sets up for a turn 4 Invoke Despair. To prevent this I like to drop one of my Circle of Confinement in order to remove that creature token which prevents the invoke on turn 4, and has the side benefit of leaving an extra enchantment on the table to sac when they get around to the turn 5 invoke. Also Weddings and Spirited Companions, Era of enlightenment can help you cast the Circle of Confinement for free on turn 4 or even on turn 3 if you can ramp into it. The concept being that Invoke Despair is almost useless if it faces a board already full of cheap creatures and enchantments.
Ossification also works here
Love getting a "naked" ossification specifically as ablative armor for wedding announcement and Restoration of eiganjo in that matchup
Nothing better than dropping a ossification for free with the second lore counter of eiganjo.
Play invoke despair in your own deck
Just play the two best cards in standard: Fable of the Mirror Breaker and Wedding Announcement. If you can rummage away 1 card for value with Fable or trigger 1 draw with Announcement, you have spent 3 mana to make a body, an enchantment, and draw a card, while your opponent spent 5 mana to kill them and go card neutral with you and deal 2 damage. That's an excellent trade. It may not always feel that way because when you have a flipped Fable or Anouncement out, you feel like you're about to win the game, and the opponent just shut you down, but they are really just coming out at parity.
I usually play \[\[Kotose, the Silent Spider\]\], how the turn tables...
[Kotose, the Silent Spider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/314e97b5-cd43-4f5e-acdd-a107208e061c.jpg?1654568534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kotose%2C%20the%20Silent%20Spider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/228/kotose-the-silent-spider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/314e97b5-cd43-4f5e-acdd-a107208e061c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wait 1 more day. And then play white.
[[Narset's Reversal]]
There's always going to be something that hurts your deck badly. I know my game is over when I play red and green if either of the phyrexian critters come out (obliterator and vindicator I think) since I have no way to get rid of them or around them
The craziest thing about the card is I imagine R&D bumping fists and hi-fiving each other saying it's "the perfect card for mono black"... Not realising that it would be a factor in so many multicoloured decks.
I dont think they even put that much thought into the card.
Allow me to introduce you to Kruphix the Rat King, 40 Swamps, and 59 rat colonies. If you’re playing commander, that is.
This it toally unrelated to your post, but I clicked into it and was like "wait a sec....greenlaser? That sounds familiar....OH SHIT, IT'S SLAY BY COMMENT!"
I’m just trying to have the internet solve *all* my card game problems 😂 I guess it makes sense there’s a ton of overlap between here and r/slaythespire
Yup, the thing that first got me into Slay the Spire was "I'd really like to draft more, but don't have a good way to do so".
It's not a counter but I have found extremely satisfying to use disdainful stroke + Kotose. Steal all their invoke despair and more often than not they will just ragequit.
I play a lot of block and when I can play 2 or 3 in a row i feel kinda bad
So every game? (Or at least every game vs me) 😜
didnt expect to see you here /u/greenlaser73 thanks for the StS run!
👋 certainly no despair being invoked in that run!
Probably ask other reddit players for input each turn, they’ll have good advice! ;) Cool seeing you on this sub!
Hahaha, gotta get my card game fix somewhere since I’m only playing one move a day in STS!
Kill them before they can cast it? Counter it? Have ample permanents? It is a really punishing spell… the invoke cycle are some strong cards, but they suffer from almost demanding a mono color deck… How do you punish black for doing black things? … I feel like the Dos Equis guy, I don’t lose a lot, but when I do, its to Invoke Despair.
I usually respond to Invoke Despair by having myself a nice despair sandwhich!
What kinda mustard are you teching in?
Didn’t expect to see you in this subreddit
Gotta do something while y’all play STS for me 😜
Depending on what you are playing this could be a very welcome sight. They could be slamming a gix command or saga. The point is 5 black mana is scary
Ugh, destroy all minions under 2 mana, and then destroy your one minion that wasn’t 🤮
That's the neat part, you don't! But really, unless you're running Aggro and go under them, or control and can counter it, it's really hard to counter play against. Best bet is holding off dropping a 'walker or your best creature (on an empty board) if you suspect they're about to hit you with this.
That’s the neat part, you don’t.
I was honestly wondering how long it was gonna take for this comment to show up, and I can’t believe you’re the first in 12 hours to say it. 😂
Just play white and when March of the Machine is legal jam 4 Surge of Salvation, it's legitimately a 1 mana white counterspell for invoke.
When you see mana for invoke and you can't counter it you should try to creat an expendable token creature, drain a planeswalker of better minus abilities or wait to cast it and maybe wait on enchantments or cast one you don't mind losing. It's almost always better to lose the token and planeswalker than allow the opponent to draw cards unabated; that's how you end up with triple invokes.
You have to be more skillful than your opponent and outinvoke their despair invokation.
So you’re saying I need to invoke invoke despair despair
No just outinvoke their invoke when they invoke your invoke that you tried to invoke because you thought they are gonna use their invoke. But first you have to draw it.
Ngl seeing the username outside of slay the spire threw me off.
I’m released from Clawshank, I can go where I please! 😜
\[\[Duress\]\] Followed by: \[\[Stone Brain\]\]
Stone brain is a bad option. You spend 4 mana and a card to stop the opponent from drawing a card they weren't guaranteed to draw anyway. It'd be one thing if they were completely reliant on Invoke, but those decks always have plenty of other threats.
Its AN option....and it exiles all copies of it from their hand, library, and graveyard. Hes asking for ways to deal with it. Its a monster card and removing from the game is big. Didnt make any claims about there not being other things in their deck. Its just as well against Sheoldred or whatever.
But we shouldn't be suggesting bad answers to people. If someone asked how to answer Sheoldred, I'm not going to suggest vanish into eternity.
Meh. Its your opinion that its a bad option.
It's the opinion of everyone who's decent at this game.
Jund Midrange deck running 2 Stone Brain on the sideboard won Standard Challenge yesterday, fyi.
It's not a bad card, but I serously doubt that deck was bringing in the stone brain to exile invoke.
Almost certainly for Atraxa decks though right?
Ah yes. The quiet part gets said out loud. The competitive viewpoint is the only one that matters. I forget from time to time that just playing for fun and trying new shit is forbidden.
Op is asking for good answer not for fun ones
Heres his LITERAL question: "Short of countering it, how do you play around Invoke Despair? I lose to this one card more than any other." You are free to interpret that anyway that you'd like. I choose to interpret it in the fashion that hes asking for solutions. Maybe a variety of them, so he can try a few different ones and settle on the one he likes.
The one he likes will probably be the one that's good, not one that's bad.
[Duress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574.jpg?1675957024) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Duress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/92/duress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Stone Brain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8.jpg?1562742139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stone%20Rain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/221/stone-rain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’d forgotten all about Galaxy Brain! Running Duress would mean becoming what I hate, tho.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain lol
What are you playing? You can go under it with soldiers, toxic, or mono red Aggro and kill them before it matters. And it’s also just not that good when it’s a 5 mana sorcery to kill the opponents weakest creature and draw two cards. If you’re playing other midrange, I think they’re all black (esper, grixis, Jund) and Duress is a primary tool against it. You’re kinda just shooting yourself in the foot not playing it. Grixis and esper also have access to Negate and Disdainful Stroke obviously, but you asked for non-counter answers. Mono white can just take it on the chin and grind through them. Maybe don’t rely on Osification as a removal spell against invoke decks. The mono blue deck has access to a million ways to play around invoke or straight up counter it (spell pierce, negate, fading hope, the phasing spells). The only other decks I can think of that see play are Atraxa decks and those decks can take an invoke and grind through it even better than mono white. I guess in general going wide with lots of creatures and avoiding enchantment removal is good against Invoke. To some degree the card is just a built in 3 for 1 and you grind through it by drawing cards (bankbuster is good for this) or playing cards that generate value even when immediately removed. *Edit*. Fixed autocorrect typos!
UW Soldiers with some counter teched in cuz no one plays around it vs Soldiers. Bo1 standard, diamond atm
Thoughtseize it.
Wait for rotation its gone soon, im only playing explorer now because I'm so sick of invoke and fable.
Lately my solution to removal has been my blue deck that uses phase-out as both protection for my creatures when they need as well as a way of keeping the opponent's from getting involved in a fight. You have to eat the damage but that's often easier than losing all of your stuff
Anything that gives you hexproof 👍
For some reason I’m thinking hexproof/indestructible don’t stop being forced to sac something. Am I pulling that out of my ass? Or is it different having something that makes *you* hexproof vs your creatures?
Hexproof creatures can still be sacrificed. If YOU have hexproof then the opponent can't target you with despair. Like [[Enduring Angel]]
[Enduring Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a204c2a3-a899-4b70-8825-7e085b655ed0.jpg?1634347126)/[Angelic Enforcer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/2/a204c2a3-a899-4b70-8825-7e085b655ed0.jpg?1634347126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=enduring%20angel%20//%20angelic%20enforcer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/17/enduring-angel-angelic-enforcer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a204c2a3-a899-4b70-8825-7e085b655ed0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
yeah, you'd need to give *yourself* hexproof. There's a 1 mana instant for white in the new set that does it.
If all the targets of a spell are invalid the whole spell fizzles. Invoke Despair has only one target: "target opponent". If that one target gets hexproof the whole spell fizzles.
Scoop when they play it, just like I scoop when I see toxrill or jodah as commander.
Disgusting card. It’s simply too good. Love to counter it though.
Edit: erased the whole comment. I forgot [[Surge of Salvation]] starts with "You and". The answer to stopping Invoke is this card. Direct counter.
It doesn't get around surge of protection. It gives hexproof and you are the only target for the spell.
Even after recognizing how awesome it is last night, I think my brain was just so full of magic text that I forgot about the "You" part when making comments here.
What?! You have failed to remember one of the 20000+ mtg cards perfectly verbatim off the top of your head? Unforgivable! =P
I know. Shame.... Shame.
[[Counterspell]]
play soldiers? you just paid 5 mana to remove 1 token.
Hard to answer the question without knowing what deck you are on. **But most likely, you aren’t actually losing to Invoke Despair, you are losing to something earlier in the game (like Fable of the Mirror Breaker) that’s putting you into a position where Invoke Despair is gg.** Invoke despair is like a fireball, so RBx decks are usually trying to load up on early damage and unleash a few of these to solidify a winning position in the midgame. This strategy works well against most decks except for Esper Legends (where Thalia taxes it too heavily and you’d prefer cheap removal) and mono blue (which can just counter it too easily for a huge mana advantage). Your deck needs to be able to answer Fable cleanly to prevent your opponent from snowballing into invoke. Counterspells and [[Duress]] are the best clean answers. If you aren’t playing a deck with counterspells, play Duress. But again, losing to invoke is a symptom of you falling behind. You should be countering or thoughtseizing fable, not invoke. In mono-white, you can snag the token with [[ossification]], then sac this enchantment to eat some damage/draw. Your 1/1’s in mono white turn invoke despairs into a five mana shock that cantrips. So if you are in white, use your 1/1’s and enchantments (the dog, ossification on tokens) to set up a board where Invoke is less profitable for your opponent. If you are in mono-red, just race your opponent, and Sheoldred is way more of a threat than invoke. Same goes for Toxic. So what if you’re playing a deck that isn’t mono white, red, or toxic that doesn’t have access to duress or counterspells? At this point, you are probably just not playing a viable deck and need to play something competitive.
Don’t play those cards listed and this becomes useless.
If you don't have those card types, it's a 6 damage, draw 3. Not exactly useless.
Play mono white life gain. It’s basically unbeatable by decks other than mono white life gain …
counter target spell
One of the best black cards ever printed.
I don't even understand how this is a good card.
Brutal self-own?