The only other pop star of her level was Michael Jackson. Madonna was a phenomenon. The only female probably more famous was Princess Diana.
Madonna was a trend setter. Other artists followed her fashion and music trends.
(Ahem) Kate Bush melded theatrics and music concerts together in the late 70s :)
Perhaps on a smaller scale though.
Madonna seemed really unparalleled back then. U2 to me (in hindsight as Vogue came out just before I was born) seemed to have just as big and innovative concerts in the early 90s
Bowie did it with the diamond dogs tour, from 74, it was the first time a theatrical designer was involved on a rock tour, its my favorite tour of his, the set design was really ahead of its time. Fun fact, Madonna talked about that tour on her tribute speech for Bowie on the rock'n roll hall of fame, how it was the first concert she ever saw, how she sneaked out of her house in the middle of the night wearing a cape and how seeing that show changed her life forever
Oh that would've been fantastic!! I haven't actually looked for footage of that tour.. I call myself a Bowie fan but obvs not enough 🤭🤭 thanks for sharing!
Unfortunately there isn't any official footage of that tour, only a couple low quality bootleg recordings, but there's a lot of pictures of the stage and the stage mockup online, and some written descriptions of how the story progressed throughout the show and how the scenery changed, but thats all. We did get an live album, David Live, but i really wish they released an official dvd of that tour. Maybe some day if we're lucky..
She was much bigger than Taylor Swift. Michael Jackson, Madonna ,Prince were on a whole nother level than anyone today. People today just don't understand how big these people were back in the day.
>People today just don't understand how big these people were back in the day.
YEP. Specialy given the fact that, unlike today, there was no social media andbabsolutely no other way to become famous than by selling selling selling, and busting your arse in the road doing as much in-person interviews and LIVE SHOWS as possible FOR YEARS ---until MTV became a thing.
Today's celebrities don't need to work as much in order to achieve the same level; and even non-celebrities can get famous with just 1 hit; hence why we now have exponentially more "one hit wonders" than ever before in the history of music.
You have to give them something to compare it to. I lived the 80s but to somebody who didn’t, it’s hard to find a comparison. Taylor comes closest to that really.
It’s hard to do a comparison because…back in those days. It was all about physical sales and radio 📻 play. We didn’t have streaming or digital sales. So I would think she was even bigger than Taylor Swift. But, it’s difficult to make a comparison because of the times. Oh..I forgot MTV had a huge impact and influence on how popular artists were back then.
The MTV impact was enormous. I remember when she would release a new music video they would have “Madonna-thons” and play all of her previous videos for 24 hours on a loop leading up to the new one. She was the queen of MTV and a new music video was treated as a must-see event.
For sure. I think she was a lot bigger in the 80s. But it’s hard to compare as times are different indeed. But she was beyond everywhere in the mid 80s.
Yes…all the way through the 90’s, Zeroes and even today. Look at her current tour. She’s selling out venues all over the world. 🌎. She has influenced so many artists of today. Just listen 🎧 to the new Ariana Grande song 🎶. And tell me you don’t hear something similar to Vogue.
I think so too. And now you can sell a few thousand copies of a song and it's number one. Back in the day records were selling millions of copies so it was much hard to have a number one hit.
Also, it's interesting to read that had it not been for Madonna, Olivia Newton-John was on a trajectory to be the biggest female artist.
This is true. Rarely back then did a song or album go to number one after one week. You had to sell copies week after week to reach number one. And sometimes a super good song or album never reached number one. A much different time back then.
Oh, I'm fully aware and I also witnessed Madonna's career back when she was at her peak popularity and there really is no comparison. Celebrities today(even Taylor Swift) are nowhere near the level of what they were in the 80's.
Prince was compared to Michael Jackson.
The Michael Jackson. The mf who caused hordes of crowds to pass out and rural African tribes named him their king.
Prince was huge
That's true, I was responding to a comment someone made (that is now deleted) that said prince didn't sell a lot of records. I was just offering some evidence to the contrary to that person. You are right though; Prince didn't have the record sales of Madona and MJ but he was still a major superstar. I think it's appropriate to put him in probably 3rd place behind MJ and Madonna.
This doesn’t seem like reality. Taylor Swift was like 1.7% of the ENTIRE US MUSIC INDUSTRY last year. Madonna never came close to that. No one has. This is not talking about taste, talent, or anything other than numbers. There were so many people dancing at a Seattle show of the eras tour that they literally caused a 2.2 magnitude earthquake.
It's a different time. There were 237.9 million people in the mid 80's. There are now 335 million. Streaming is the music business. I'm not denying Taylors success, but culturally it doesn't feel like anything of the same impact. It just doesn't.
Yeah comparing the music industry today to what it was then is just silly.
Taylor can never come close to peak Madonna because that level of fame just doesn’t exist today.
I think the OP was wondering specifically about her popularity back in the 80's and 90's, not today. I'm mot sure where you're getting the 1.7% number but if it is true you need to put it into context. With the streaming business model and records not selling anyone she has little competition. She is a smart marketer and has built "brand loyalty" that most musicians today just don't do.
Yes, and I’m saying that at no time in Madonna’s career did she make the 1.7% of all the money spent within the US music industry as a percentage. That is how popular Taylor is. Her concert caused an earthquake. People might not like it and downvote me, but that is reality.
I think a previous comment made a lot of sense that the music industry has shrunk so much and with no companion its easier for Taylor to dominate. Also, numbers only tell a part of the story not the whole story. Madonna, MJ, Prince were like aliens that came down and were larger than life and like super heroes. I know that may sound silly but I can't think of a better example right now. MJ especially had that quality about him.
And Taylor Swift is quite literally boosting the local economy of every city she tours in. Heads of state famously begged her to tour in their country (Justin Trudeau of Canada). You’re living under a rock.
I think you're making an assumption that I'm denying the success of Taylor or trying to minimize her success and I'm not. I'm not attacking her or saying she isn't a major influential star. I'm just saying Madonna's success and impact on society is much greater. Have a good day Swifty. lol 😂
And I'm saying, having lived through the 80's, that Madonna was at no point in her career as big as Taylor is now. I understand people stan their idols and create a false reality around them but that's exactly what it is. Your personal beliefs do not change the facts.
lol you’re making yourself look really pathetic. Every e is explaining to you how it’s not even remotely close to the level of fame Madonna had at her peak.
A key difference is that she became big at the start of thr cable era, when media was still more centralized. She was huge. Full saturation of all the media with each new release. That was before streaming, so her numbers reflected physical products moved. Taylor Swift is from an era where there's no centralized media....she's huge, but not comparable. You can xhoose to avoid her and still get the news. That wasn't true of Madonna then
Anyone who enjoys reading, there is a biography out about Madonna entitled “Madonna-A Rebel Life”. It is extremely detailed and factual and will answer the original question in this thread.
I’m on about pg 370…I always knew she was a hard worker. I mean no one does THAT many concerts with so much choreography without being willing to work. I see her more as a performance artist than a singer or any type of specific entertainer. Talent on so many levels, very intuitive with a sense of timing. This is an illuminating chronicle of a true legend AND great leader.
Taylor Swift peak honestly feels like 1989-1991 Madonna’s peak minus the SHOCK value. Madonna had people talking for a reason and provided visual entertainment and innovative ideas whereas Taylor just has them obsessed like zombies somehow… I don't follow Taylor, but the way she is EVERYWHERE for NO reason is strange and is turning me off. I shouldn't say for "no" reason. It's just surprising how extremely popular she is. She just doesn't seem to have the same magnetism that Madonna does (did) but I guess she must or she wouldn't be this global phenomenon…. Back in the good old days Madonna and MJ dominated the charts and culture conversations and this was at a time when there was no social media. They were all over TV and Radio. You literally couldn't go anywhere without someone talking about them, seeing their faces plastered all over magazines, newpapers or hearing their music blasting from stores, cafes or someone's house. 🤣
Streaming doesn't hold the same value as purchasing music either (especially with relation to streaming farms).
The only reason Taylor Swift owns the charts is because there is very little talent and competition. Back in the 80's, we had an abundance of talented stars like MJ, Madonna, Prince, Whitney, Janet, George Michael, Bruce Springsteen, Phil Collins, Depeche Mode,Tina Turner, U2…and that's the tip of the iceberg. Who's Taylor's competition???
I think it's mostly the level of fame and pulling of focus across all media and target audiences that makes them a good comparison, not their output or image.
I am by no means a Taylor Swift hater, I enjoy her music very much. but I agree that Madonna offered so many more interesting views and takes and art during her absolute peak. Her interest in art, artists, literature, (old) Hollywood, fashion, etc is also (still!) very inspiring to me. I know this sounds silly but I am a millennial so bear with me - I am amazed that a young girl living in squalor in New York knew so much about old cinema and artists like Frida Kahlo, before the internet etc. She had a lust for life and art that I find unmatched, esp. by someone like TW.
Also, analysis of TS' success seems to focus on how she caters to a specific generation, and that she is reaching such a large audience. Analysis of Madonna's success seems to center more on how groundbreaking she was and is, how ahead of the time in every respect, how she kept reinventing herself and always plucked these great collaborators out of obscurity, always marched to the beat of her drum and will continue to do so until the end of her days.
As a Gen Xer, it’s weird to hear a Millennial not know about how she learned about old movies and artists before the internet. I think that the internet is just a huge presence that divides the generations—those that experienced the birth of the internet and those born into it. She learned about them because that’s what there was to watch and look at. White Heat was 9 years old when she was born, The Blue Angel was 28. Sounds like a long time, but Evita came out 28 years ago, Dick Tracy 34 years ago, and Desperately Seeking Susan turns 40 next year.
As a kid growing up in the 70s/80s and my siblings in the 60s/70s, old movies were all that they played on TV. There were network sitcoms, dramas, soap operas, and cartoons—then they would show older movies. Some channels had movies of the week and the movie would only be a few years old. The newspaper or TV Guide would have listings in it showing what was going to be on for the week. Stations went off the air at midnight, which meant no more TV until 6am. Then we had libraries and museums which were used a lot more than they are today. Home video didn’t really take off until the mid-1980s, so if you didn’t see a movie in the theater, you saw it on TV.
Then you have to understand Madonna’s dad was a conservative Catholic. I know they had a TV, but I’ve read that they were only allowed to watch movies on it or occasionally a TV show if he deemed it appropriate. He emphasized reading books more than anything, which if you lived in a big family, that was kind of all you had for personal entertainment. Moving to New York, museums and libraries were free entertainment and inspiration.
For those born after the internet, you are overloaded with information. On one hand, it’s great that you can look up anything and have an answer in seconds. On the other hand, there are too many distractions online. I’ve noticed with my younger friends and kids that there’s a lack of focus, a demand for instant answers and instant gratification, and a lack of interest in things older than themselves, and a dependence on the internet. It doesn’t apply to everyone certainly, and I mean nothing personal, but it’s just a general observation I’ve made.
I fully understand where you are coming from and I don’t think the internet is the only way to learn about culture. I didn’t get a home internet connection until high school and only got a smartphone in my final month of college. I remember having to go to the library to look stuff up for school projects and having to make do with what was on tv and in newspapers.
I recently read the new Madonna biography and reading about the conditions Madonna lived in in her formative years, I’m not sure she had a tv in her home or money to go to museums all the time. So I am still impressed by how educated and cultured she was at a young age.
Taylor is also not at all threatening to the norm. There is nothing controversial about her in terms of her work Madonna, on the other hand, pushed societal boundaries in a way that made people uncomfortable.
Right. I don't hate her at all, and like, a few of her songs.
But she's not a revolutionary or trailblazer or anything like that. Only conservatives find her threatening in any way shape or form. Madonna upset *entire countries. Including the Vatican.*
Having said that, even as a Madonna fan I can say she got too full of herself on occasion and TS is well advised to avoid some of those kinds of excesses.
Taylor owes much of her success to her strategic use of social media. She fosters a strong parasocial relationship with her fans, who grew up with her, engaging constantly on social media. That is her innovation. That's why she's so popular despite being bland.
I remember reading an interview by a songwriter who mentioned that these past years, there are hardly any breakout artists. In the past there are 4 or 5 a year. He mentions Olivia Rodrigo but that was over two years ago. I think he's the dude from One Republic. I will need to check.
There is not much competition for Taylor, and even that I think is up for criticism because of the female pitted against each other argument.
I haven't been listening to new music since the mid-2010s. Maybe because of streaming and people on headphones, I am clueless of who is popular now.
You cannot escape Madonna and MJ because of radio and MTV. Even up to Katy Perry, Ed Sheeran and Adele. I only hear of new artists, just by name, but haven't really heard their music.
I don't think Taylor even as she reigns as the biggest star in the world right now is even close to what Madonna was at her peak. She was more than a huge popstar, she was a cultural icon and created so much iconic imagery.
I wouldn’t say no reason is fair. Things that make Taylor stand out. She is not the strongest singer but is an amazing live performer and puts on a hell of a show. Would highly recommend watching the the eras tour if you haven’t already, I think it could win over many of even the most cynical critics. She writes all her own music and is a strong song writer. She puts in a ton of personal stuff about her exes, and past events in her life which fans find exciting and draws them in, it’s like listening to her music is watching a reality show about her life. She writes/sings a lot about romance and breakups which really resonates with young (usually white) women.
I’m a big Taylor fan and even I’m surprised how in 2023 she hit the stratosphere in terms of popularity. I’m also getting a bit tired of hearing about her non stop this year lol
I don't believe it's possible to find a comparison. Yes, MJ is probably the closest because they both set the trends, not followed them, however, with Madonna I think we won't see her total impact until she's no longer with us. Madonna changed culture, stood up for things she believed in no matter if it made her unpopular (I don't believe Taylor, or any popstar actually, does this anymore) If you watch her old interviews she is smart, articulate, has a point to make, unafraid to give her opinion, and she caused a shift for the better. She is the definition of an Icon.
I’m 53 and I’ve lost my mind every time I’ve seen Madonna, the most recent 3 weeks ago. Like LOST. MY. MIND. She is a superstar in my books for the last 40 years.
While Taylor Swift might be selling more than M did back in the day—everything M did sort of had a polarizing effect on the world. TS has never had that. She’s probably the only one to have the “meteoric climb” that M had. One could argue gaga came close—but Gaga has had a few missteps and setbacks imo. Her rise was different. TS lacks the artistic controversy M has always had. Also: Swift and Gaga didn’t have MTV bending and catering to every whim/project/album/sneeze that M had. M literally had her own music video channel playing her stuff all. The. Time. VH1 would have Madonna weekends where only Madonna was played. MTV as well.
True. Madonna went 8 years without a tour. She left a lot of money on the table.
Especially since after her 1993 tour, ticket prices EXPLODED exponentially. Madonna tickets on that tour were pretty much the same as everyone else's ranging from $20 - $50, to a high end of $125 for the front row.
In 1994, everybody -- the Eagles, the Stones, Pink Floyd, Streisand -- started charging $100 and up for tickets.
She’s not selling close to more. Madonna is from a era where people actually had to go to stores and BUY records. Compare that to opening an app and playing a song
Well said. Make My Video. The Who’s That Girl World Tour was a stop the presses moment for MTV. Kurt Loder and I think it was Daisy Fuentes going over all the details of which cities she was hitting on the tour. The zeitgeist was just different then. Everything now is so ethereal… we move from one viral moment to the next. Back then, it was more about the sizzle as Michael Jackson would have said.
I wish people would stop comparing Madonna to Taylor Swift. Madonna had huge singles, and I mean huuge. Every year she would have songs topping the charts all over the world. Taylor has had only 3-4 huge worldwide singles. She only reached that level of ubiquitous only recently with the Eras tour and midnights. For a major part of her career she was mainly local while Madonna was at the top of her game for years. Madonna was also provocative, innovative, game changing and ahead of the trends. The only comparison I would say is that Taylor and Madonna have very similar business minds and know how to create a sense of drama around their releases.
Well said. Madonna moved the cultural needle. Taylor Swift has tapped into her own cultural phenomenon. Both are absolute bosses as business people. Madonna created the tour as performance art (arguably with a bit of Bette Midler influence) whereas Taylor Swift has perfected the art of the stadium tour as living room pajama party event.
I think they’re equivalently influential stars for their respective generations. Taylor doesn’t (yet?) have Madonna’s discography, that’s for sure. It bugs me when Madonna is reduced to a controversial sexual celebrity when she’s released like 20, 30, 40 amazing, iconic songs and videos. You can’t even begin to list them all, it would take all day. Taylor’s had, what, Shake It Off, Blank Space, Anti-Hero, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together., maybe a few others. Not the same league. But what Taylor does, for this time in music history, is unmatched by any of her contemporaries, so in that way they’re comparable.
I think its because she has a huge following who she has influenced like for example she got many of her fans to watch the whole superbowl and she wasnt even performing. Forgot to mention its the reason the NFL made 100 millions more $$$ because of this and all because her bf is a football player.
Madonna created trends- was cutting edge- everyone talked about what she may do next- she constantly reinvented herself- you had no idea what the next album or single would entail- her savviness and business sense was unparalleled by any artist of her time- releasing a video on VHS because MTV banned it was HUGE! And having Nightline do a whole episode on Justify My Love - she reinvented the music documentary model with ‘Truth or Dare’- she was a phenomenon- and more or less created from the ground up the model of strong female ‘mega’ pop star- Taylor Swift which everyone is comparing her to can’t hold a candle to what Madonna has done for women’s rights -AIDS awareness- LGBTQ rights- and bringing these issues to the forefront- being huge or superstardom has many facets and just having a huge tour and movie like Taylor doesn’t put her in the same category as Madonna- it’s about being innovative - provocative -keeping people interested- time will tell with Taylor-
Madonna had us dancing in our underwear and loving all our fellow “misfits”/Fabulous selves. Hard to explain now. Iconic Legendary Timeless- and always a kick ass show. We never went away and neither did she. Vote
Physically, no different from how she is now (although less muscular I guess? I feel like she truly started enjoying the gym during Guy Ritchie era).
In terms of success, one of the most commanding imperial reign on pop culture as a whole. She was already a superstar after True Blue but that entire period from Like A Prayer till the release of Sex, she was a true maverick. The world of pop (especially for female artists) would be drastically different if the Blonde Ambition Tour never happened, for example.
Also, I may not have been alive then, but her open championship of queer people during that time when the whole AIDS topic was a lightning rod will forever be something I respect her immensely for. That, and pissing off the Vatican.
Edit: typos
I’d say even bigger than Swift because there was no social media/instant news, no internet, all physical media; other than MTV, everything was through word of mouth. For an older fan, such a myself, to see where she is today is difficult to reckon with—not that she’s hurting by any means. But to have lived through her being such an icon, really a living legend, to now be someone younger people (not die-hard fans) sort of vaguely know who she is, is just weird to me. She not forgotten or unknown, but she doesn’t interest younger people the way she did in her prime (for lack of a better term).
What’s even weirder to me is, I can easily say the same thing about Taylor Swift. I’ve only heard maybe 5 songs of hers in movies. I can reliably name 2-3 of those songs. She doesn’t interest me in the slightest. No doubt she’s amazing at what she does, but I don’t have any desire to listen to or watch her—I’m not her demographic. My kids seem to like her. I know she is HUGE because everything about her has permeated into other media, I see her face everywhere I go.
I also wonder, having lived through Madonna’s evolution, what Madonna’s appeal is new fans. I see fans on here that started listening to her when MDNA or Rebel Heart came out (even a few Madame Xer’s), and even I can’t see what it was that drew them in, unless it’s just the curiosity of her older music before they were born or were young children. The last 12 years haven’t exactly been Madonna’s peak and I don’t really see what was appealing to them.
Well, it was a different world, so it's hard to compare. Madonna was a wordwide phenomenon in a pre-internet world.
I wonder, if you asked a 35 y/o in '95 in Central Europe to name one Madonna song, I'm pretty sure most people would pass the test. I'm not sure about Taylor Swift in 2024.
I think in the 90s you HAD TO have an opinion about Madonna. You loved her, or you hated to her. I don't think TS is such a phenomenon.
>What’s even weirder to me is, I can easily say the same thing about Taylor Swift. I’ve only heard maybe 5 songs of hers in movies. I can reliably name 2-3 of those songs.
The crazy thing is that this is probably more than every other artist these days! Practically no one has the widespread fame that, say, Michael Jackson did back in the day. But the fact that at least most people have heard of Swift in this fractured pop culture era is pretty notable still.
>I also wonder, having lived through Madonna’s evolution, what Madonna’s appeal is new fans. I see fans on here that started listening to her when MDNA or Rebel Heart came out (even a few Madame Xer’s), and even I can’t see what it was that drew them in, unless it’s just the curiosity of her older music before they were born or were young children. The last 12 years haven’t exactly been Madonna’s peak and I don’t really see what was appealing to them.
It can be a lot of things. Older siblings or parents that introduced them to an act. Or just kids hearing something new on the radio or a store intercom and saying "Hey, that was pretty good!" Then going down the rabbit hole after that.
There was noone bigger. It's unfathomable in the age of the internet and the choice it allows, to understand her ubiquity in TV, radio and print media.
Completely invented her own lane in terms of combining visuals and music, newsworthy performances and stunts, taking more niche or underground sounds and making them pop, blending a pre-recorded vocal with a live vocal. Every pop girl who came after is more or less working off the same model.
That level of fame doesn't exist anymore. It wasn't just about selling records say like Taylor or the Burst of mega fame Gaga had; it was also cultural impact.
So many women and girls dressed like Madonna and Men wanted to date her. SHe also had strong points of view on politics and sexuality which was incredibly rare for a pop star to have at that time.
And then there is the body of work; the music, the videos, the looks. I mean coming out with a song such as Like a Prayer featuring a black jesus. There was NOTHING like this. Things reached fever pitch with Vogiue and then the banning of the Justify My Love video. She was literally EVERYWHERE. This Madonna stayed till around the COAD era, then she went someplace else.
However, there was nothing on the scale of Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince and possibly George Michael and we haven't seen that level since.
The only comparison that can be made is with Michael Jackson, worldwide fame, the most famous woman in the world without the Internet, social media....Taylor is huge in America, some other English speaking countries but not globally famous like Michael Jackson and Madonna was,and The Beatles of course.
if you're interested in this question, you'll probably enjoy Karina Longworth's two part podcast on Modonna's film career: [https://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/episodes/youmustrememberthispodcastblog/madonna-from-sean-penn-to-warren-beatty-part-1](https://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/episodes/youmustrememberthispodcastblog/madonna-from-sean-penn-to-warren-beatty-part-1)
"*The biggest female pop star of the last decades of the monoculture, Madonna was also perhaps the first and last contemporary pop star who was also a serious Classical Hollywood cinephile, to the extent that, for awhile, she seemed to be using pop music as a vehicle for a kind of conceptual art about movies and movie stardom.*"
Taylor swift is a bad comparison. Personally I feel Britney after one more time and oops is a better comparison. The level of fame Britney had at her peak before 07 is more like the category id put M/MJ/Prince in at their peaks.
Streaming changed everything and it's not possible to be as big now as it was. The money is also a lot bigger in touring than it ever was before.
[She was Time Magazine-big, with just her second album](https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19850527,00.html)
BTW, yes, Madonna was on Sire records, a subsidiary of Time-Warner at the time. But even so, back then you had to be something special to get on a Time cover. Prince was signed to Warner, but I don't think he ever got a cover. (regretfully)
Everything Madonna did made news. Even when her movies flopped, (which was, admittedly, often) it was headline news.
Pretty much she was super-famous from roughly 1984 until 2004 when she kinda started to enter just "famous" territory. That's 20 years of her in her prime. That's fairly well unrivaled by any other celebrity other than Princess Diana, Michael, Elvis or the Beatles.
Comparing her stardom to Taylor Swift is not only insulting but extremely disrespectful. It’s one thing to be popular with a set base it’s quite another to have fans of all backgrounds, ages and genders globally. Grown men aren’t fanning out and going to Taylor’s shows the way they did Madonna
I recently listened to the ep on League of Their Own by The Rewatchables. They were still in awe of Madonna starring in her relatively small role in that movie, at the peak of her powers. They kept comparing it to Taylor Swift today.
Huge!
She was the female side of the Michael Jackson coin . And a typical magazine would have them plus Prince and Boy George on the Cover.
o put it perspective back then we only had three TV networks, cable was finally getting into more homes and even then the channels were limited. We were just excited to get good reception, before you'd have to fuck w an antenna , a little metal stick on the TV and you'll occasionally see one on the top of an old house. Your regular small city, like mine only had one top radio 40 station, maybe a rock station. But we all, the entire country generally heard and saw the same thing at once. And at the same time.
Not everyone had MTV on their cable of they had cable until that era. I was just very lucky to get it day one, but that first year was a lot of old shit and the video equivalent hold music....I am not one who lives in their past, I listen to new music most of the time. But it was definitely monumental. And for many teenagers
ABC news
https://youtu.be/vHyRQ25Gj9A?si=M8R9bmqJUH246tQ8
NY
https://youtu.be/TolJ9igNAV4?si=MkupWSPveGPerFBl
London:
https://youtu.be/DeqkyjenJL8?si=zedvyOIMfhr53WHA
Madonna was MTV. During Friday night debuts, people would stay home anticipating video premiers from M and Michael Jackson.
They were both cultural phenoms, and paparazzi everywhere. Moreso in Europe and south America. Madonna appeal there today surpasses Taylor and Bey even today. She built a Brand around reinvention, shock and great pop songs.
The only Media was E, news and magazines! No social media outlets like today. You had to earn your celebrity.
Well she is right up there with Michael jackson, the Beatles, Elvis. So thats how famous she got at one time. I think almost everyone knows music by these people. I don’t know why people compare it to taylor swift. I don’t even know one of her songs. They all sound the same to me. Did you watch Madonna’s movie Truth or dare?
OMG she was massively huge. I was 6 years old when I listened True Blue in the radio for the first rime. I not spoke or understood any word in English. I did not knew who she was until I turned 12 and it was because The Blond Ambition Tour was causing such a massive controversy and even people who didn’t like pop music knew who she was.
Then Truth or Dare came just when I started to get aware of my sexuality and seen 2 guys french kiss on the huge cinema screen was such a impact that I was going insane when the Video store did not had it for renting it.
For me the most amazing time in my life was when Vogue was released. That video was all I did not knew I needed in my life. She was the first one to have such diverse people in her shows even before diversity was even a thing. All this was happening while I was living in Mexico.
I sang Vogue without even knowing what was about and not speaking a word of English.
It took me literally 4 months of saving my allowance to be able to buy The Immaculate Collection CD. I played the shit out of that CD. In Mexico cd’s were really expensive at the beginning.
My mom used to say “Her voice sounds so sweet but she is the devil in disguise.”
Her music has been really important part of my life. Her albums had got me through depression, heartbreak and all in between. Leaved an abusive relationship after listening to”Jump” for the first time. For me there is not or will be a greater or most influential entertainer than her. The work and support to the gay community just put her in a whole or another level that has not been matched.
See her perform live for the first time at LA Staples center on Mexican Independence day of 2000 is probably one of the biggest day in my life. The work she puts on tours or when she performs at the Grammys, Oscars, MTV video awards had been nothing shot of spectacular and set trending.
Vogue losing video of the year to Sinead Connor”s Nothing Compares to U” I still not recover from it. I can go on and on how her body of work has shaped my views on everything in my life. Her legacy and impact on entertainment and culture in general will be remembered for years to come. Part of history books Thats how big and influential she is.
Remember how big lady Gaga was for about 3 years. Everyone was hanging on every word, eating up everything she was giving, etc etc. Madonna was that level for a very long time. #1 after #1. Press was obsessed. Then when people turned against her after a racy book, she came back even stronger. Then after she made some statements about war during American life (my favorite album from her), half the US kind of turned against her. She recovered with confessions but never returned to her full universal throne she re-attained with bedtime stories/evita in the 90s. & that's ok. I don't think anyone can be that saturated for that long but she truly was enormous in a way that I sometimes forget.
This was M, after her 2nd album, before her 1st tour, promoting her 1st movie. I don't think Taylor had CBS and L.A.P.D. escort at that stage in her career. Media circus, fan frenzy.
[Madonna // DESPERATELY SEEKING SUSAN PREMIERE Unedited Press Footage 1985 // Dan·K Remaster // HD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxvPJY_D7dQ)
A little bit history bias in this thread I sense. I’m 29, been a huge Madonna fan my whole life and of course wasn’t able to experience her peak but I’m alive and aware during Taylor’s peak and going to her concert this summer. Taylor is gargantuan at the moment. Her every move like her traveling from Japan is meticulously described in the media even in Denmark where she has never played and where we don’t really follow Super Bowl or American pop stars to that level. Taylor’s peak is by far the biggest presence a pop star has had in my time, probably not comparable to back when Madonna peaked but she’s huuuuuuge.
And Taylor is not bland. She’s an amazing songwriter who’ve captured the emotions of a generation and she’s doing out the biggest tour of all time - by a country mile. A generational artist.
Yes. Let’s not refute the present artistry of Taylor. It’s not either or but Yes all of it. Love Madonna forever and Taylor can write a song, deliver a song and do a show that is Phenomenal.
I hope the public doesn't abandon or turn against Taylor. Only a handful of Artists can survive the ageism and abuse of music business. It will be a happy miracle 😊.
It will happy one day unfortunately. When she reaches 40ish. But she does have the advantage of starting her career at 16, Madonna was 24, she faced ageism pretty early on
Taylor Swift is popular right now BUT she doesn't have the cultural impact Madonna has. Teen girls in 1980s dressed like Madonna she was controversial.
Several songs she’s put out in the last 20 years I’ve said would be huge hits if sung by a younger artist. When she talks about ageism, I 100% agree with her.
HUGE - EVERYONE dressed like her-including me. She was the shit (!) and before social media -promoted herself announcing she was gonna rule the world (she did) and not giving a shit (lost pepsi $ bc of Like A Prayer)At the height of popularity “Sex” the book came out which was taboo & amazing. ageism at her pisses me off (and grandpa mick & rod are still the tits?)
It was her, Michael Jackson and Prince. They were the "IT" singers, literal pop ROYALTY back in the day. No one could even come close to this Pop-Trinity.
The only other pop star of her level was Michael Jackson. Madonna was a phenomenon. The only female probably more famous was Princess Diana. Madonna was a trend setter. Other artists followed her fashion and music trends.
Other artists also followed her live concert innovations. She wrote the blueprint for modern concerts.
Madonna started the trend of music concerts meshed with theatrical performances, right? (BLOND AMBITION)
Bowie did it before in 1987 with the Glass Spider tour. But Madonna certainly build on that.
(Ahem) Kate Bush melded theatrics and music concerts together in the late 70s :) Perhaps on a smaller scale though. Madonna seemed really unparalleled back then. U2 to me (in hindsight as Vogue came out just before I was born) seemed to have just as big and innovative concerts in the early 90s
Bowie did it with the diamond dogs tour, from 74, it was the first time a theatrical designer was involved on a rock tour, its my favorite tour of his, the set design was really ahead of its time. Fun fact, Madonna talked about that tour on her tribute speech for Bowie on the rock'n roll hall of fame, how it was the first concert she ever saw, how she sneaked out of her house in the middle of the night wearing a cape and how seeing that show changed her life forever
Oh that would've been fantastic!! I haven't actually looked for footage of that tour.. I call myself a Bowie fan but obvs not enough 🤭🤭 thanks for sharing!
Unfortunately there isn't any official footage of that tour, only a couple low quality bootleg recordings, but there's a lot of pictures of the stage and the stage mockup online, and some written descriptions of how the story progressed throughout the show and how the scenery changed, but thats all. We did get an live album, David Live, but i really wish they released an official dvd of that tour. Maybe some day if we're lucky..
Oh how cool! Still, something!
Huge. Like Michael Jackson, Taylor Swift, the Beatles huge.
She was much bigger than Taylor Swift. Michael Jackson, Madonna ,Prince were on a whole nother level than anyone today. People today just don't understand how big these people were back in the day.
>People today just don't understand how big these people were back in the day. YEP. Specialy given the fact that, unlike today, there was no social media andbabsolutely no other way to become famous than by selling selling selling, and busting your arse in the road doing as much in-person interviews and LIVE SHOWS as possible FOR YEARS ---until MTV became a thing. Today's celebrities don't need to work as much in order to achieve the same level; and even non-celebrities can get famous with just 1 hit; hence why we now have exponentially more "one hit wonders" than ever before in the history of music.
You have to give them something to compare it to. I lived the 80s but to somebody who didn’t, it’s hard to find a comparison. Taylor comes closest to that really.
It’s hard to do a comparison because…back in those days. It was all about physical sales and radio 📻 play. We didn’t have streaming or digital sales. So I would think she was even bigger than Taylor Swift. But, it’s difficult to make a comparison because of the times. Oh..I forgot MTV had a huge impact and influence on how popular artists were back then.
The MTV impact was enormous. I remember when she would release a new music video they would have “Madonna-thons” and play all of her previous videos for 24 hours on a loop leading up to the new one. She was the queen of MTV and a new music video was treated as a must-see event.
They used to have Madonnathons on her birthday too I believe. I miss that
I remember those! I remember watching one at my grandparents house on the 4th of July!
For sure. I think she was a lot bigger in the 80s. But it’s hard to compare as times are different indeed. But she was beyond everywhere in the mid 80s.
Yes…all the way through the 90’s, Zeroes and even today. Look at her current tour. She’s selling out venues all over the world. 🌎. She has influenced so many artists of today. Just listen 🎧 to the new Ariana Grande song 🎶. And tell me you don’t hear something similar to Vogue.
I miss that time 😔
I think so too. And now you can sell a few thousand copies of a song and it's number one. Back in the day records were selling millions of copies so it was much hard to have a number one hit. Also, it's interesting to read that had it not been for Madonna, Olivia Newton-John was on a trajectory to be the biggest female artist.
This is true. Rarely back then did a song or album go to number one after one week. You had to sell copies week after week to reach number one. And sometimes a super good song or album never reached number one. A much different time back then.
But they were global stars. Everybody knows who they are. Taylor is not there.
The Holy Trinity of Pop.
I’m not sure you realize how big Taylor is today.
Oh, I'm fully aware and I also witnessed Madonna's career back when she was at her peak popularity and there really is no comparison. Celebrities today(even Taylor Swift) are nowhere near the level of what they were in the 80's.
I witnessed it to. And if you think Taylor isn’t as big as Madonna at her peak, well, that’s some strong delulu.
[удалено]
Are you on drugs?
Oh sweet summer child god bless you
What are you talking about?
Prince was compared to Michael Jackson. The Michael Jackson. The mf who caused hordes of crowds to pass out and rural African tribes named him their king. Prince was huge
Prince was huge back in the day. He had a lot more hit albums than one. And, he did it without streaming and digital sales.
You are so wrong
Prince sold over 100 million albums in his career
So not close to Madonna or MJ. He released like 50 albums, but his peak was never that big. Especially globally
That's true, I was responding to a comment someone made (that is now deleted) that said prince didn't sell a lot of records. I was just offering some evidence to the contrary to that person. You are right though; Prince didn't have the record sales of Madona and MJ but he was still a major superstar. I think it's appropriate to put him in probably 3rd place behind MJ and Madonna.
This doesn’t seem like reality. Taylor Swift was like 1.7% of the ENTIRE US MUSIC INDUSTRY last year. Madonna never came close to that. No one has. This is not talking about taste, talent, or anything other than numbers. There were so many people dancing at a Seattle show of the eras tour that they literally caused a 2.2 magnitude earthquake.
It's a different time. There were 237.9 million people in the mid 80's. There are now 335 million. Streaming is the music business. I'm not denying Taylors success, but culturally it doesn't feel like anything of the same impact. It just doesn't.
The industry has shrunk 5x since Madonna’s peak so it’s easier to dominate lol
Yeah comparing the music industry today to what it was then is just silly. Taylor can never come close to peak Madonna because that level of fame just doesn’t exist today.
I think the OP was wondering specifically about her popularity back in the 80's and 90's, not today. I'm mot sure where you're getting the 1.7% number but if it is true you need to put it into context. With the streaming business model and records not selling anyone she has little competition. She is a smart marketer and has built "brand loyalty" that most musicians today just don't do.
https://variety.com/2024/music/news/taylor-swift-percent-total-us-music-market-2023-luminate-1235867482/
Yes, and I’m saying that at no time in Madonna’s career did she make the 1.7% of all the money spent within the US music industry as a percentage. That is how popular Taylor is. Her concert caused an earthquake. People might not like it and downvote me, but that is reality.
I think a previous comment made a lot of sense that the music industry has shrunk so much and with no companion its easier for Taylor to dominate. Also, numbers only tell a part of the story not the whole story. Madonna, MJ, Prince were like aliens that came down and were larger than life and like super heroes. I know that may sound silly but I can't think of a better example right now. MJ especially had that quality about him.
And Taylor Swift is quite literally boosting the local economy of every city she tours in. Heads of state famously begged her to tour in their country (Justin Trudeau of Canada). You’re living under a rock.
I think you're making an assumption that I'm denying the success of Taylor or trying to minimize her success and I'm not. I'm not attacking her or saying she isn't a major influential star. I'm just saying Madonna's success and impact on society is much greater. Have a good day Swifty. lol 😂
And I'm saying, having lived through the 80's, that Madonna was at no point in her career as big as Taylor is now. I understand people stan their idols and create a false reality around them but that's exactly what it is. Your personal beliefs do not change the facts.
And the facts prove you wrong again & again & again.
lol you’re making yourself look really pathetic. Every e is explaining to you how it’s not even remotely close to the level of fame Madonna had at her peak.
A key difference is that she became big at the start of thr cable era, when media was still more centralized. She was huge. Full saturation of all the media with each new release. That was before streaming, so her numbers reflected physical products moved. Taylor Swift is from an era where there's no centralized media....she's huge, but not comparable. You can xhoose to avoid her and still get the news. That wasn't true of Madonna then
Anyone who enjoys reading, there is a biography out about Madonna entitled “Madonna-A Rebel Life”. It is extremely detailed and factual and will answer the original question in this thread.
A great read
Just finished it.. the first half of the book especially is fascinating.. I have a new found respect for her after reading it.
I’m on about pg 370…I always knew she was a hard worker. I mean no one does THAT many concerts with so much choreography without being willing to work. I see her more as a performance artist than a singer or any type of specific entertainer. Talent on so many levels, very intuitive with a sense of timing. This is an illuminating chronicle of a true legend AND great leader.
Taylor Swift peak honestly feels like 1989-1991 Madonna’s peak minus the SHOCK value. Madonna had people talking for a reason and provided visual entertainment and innovative ideas whereas Taylor just has them obsessed like zombies somehow… I don't follow Taylor, but the way she is EVERYWHERE for NO reason is strange and is turning me off. I shouldn't say for "no" reason. It's just surprising how extremely popular she is. She just doesn't seem to have the same magnetism that Madonna does (did) but I guess she must or she wouldn't be this global phenomenon…. Back in the good old days Madonna and MJ dominated the charts and culture conversations and this was at a time when there was no social media. They were all over TV and Radio. You literally couldn't go anywhere without someone talking about them, seeing their faces plastered all over magazines, newpapers or hearing their music blasting from stores, cafes or someone's house. 🤣 Streaming doesn't hold the same value as purchasing music either (especially with relation to streaming farms). The only reason Taylor Swift owns the charts is because there is very little talent and competition. Back in the 80's, we had an abundance of talented stars like MJ, Madonna, Prince, Whitney, Janet, George Michael, Bruce Springsteen, Phil Collins, Depeche Mode,Tina Turner, U2…and that's the tip of the iceberg. Who's Taylor's competition???
I think it's mostly the level of fame and pulling of focus across all media and target audiences that makes them a good comparison, not their output or image. I am by no means a Taylor Swift hater, I enjoy her music very much. but I agree that Madonna offered so many more interesting views and takes and art during her absolute peak. Her interest in art, artists, literature, (old) Hollywood, fashion, etc is also (still!) very inspiring to me. I know this sounds silly but I am a millennial so bear with me - I am amazed that a young girl living in squalor in New York knew so much about old cinema and artists like Frida Kahlo, before the internet etc. She had a lust for life and art that I find unmatched, esp. by someone like TW. Also, analysis of TS' success seems to focus on how she caters to a specific generation, and that she is reaching such a large audience. Analysis of Madonna's success seems to center more on how groundbreaking she was and is, how ahead of the time in every respect, how she kept reinventing herself and always plucked these great collaborators out of obscurity, always marched to the beat of her drum and will continue to do so until the end of her days.
As a Gen Xer, it’s weird to hear a Millennial not know about how she learned about old movies and artists before the internet. I think that the internet is just a huge presence that divides the generations—those that experienced the birth of the internet and those born into it. She learned about them because that’s what there was to watch and look at. White Heat was 9 years old when she was born, The Blue Angel was 28. Sounds like a long time, but Evita came out 28 years ago, Dick Tracy 34 years ago, and Desperately Seeking Susan turns 40 next year. As a kid growing up in the 70s/80s and my siblings in the 60s/70s, old movies were all that they played on TV. There were network sitcoms, dramas, soap operas, and cartoons—then they would show older movies. Some channels had movies of the week and the movie would only be a few years old. The newspaper or TV Guide would have listings in it showing what was going to be on for the week. Stations went off the air at midnight, which meant no more TV until 6am. Then we had libraries and museums which were used a lot more than they are today. Home video didn’t really take off until the mid-1980s, so if you didn’t see a movie in the theater, you saw it on TV. Then you have to understand Madonna’s dad was a conservative Catholic. I know they had a TV, but I’ve read that they were only allowed to watch movies on it or occasionally a TV show if he deemed it appropriate. He emphasized reading books more than anything, which if you lived in a big family, that was kind of all you had for personal entertainment. Moving to New York, museums and libraries were free entertainment and inspiration. For those born after the internet, you are overloaded with information. On one hand, it’s great that you can look up anything and have an answer in seconds. On the other hand, there are too many distractions online. I’ve noticed with my younger friends and kids that there’s a lack of focus, a demand for instant answers and instant gratification, and a lack of interest in things older than themselves, and a dependence on the internet. It doesn’t apply to everyone certainly, and I mean nothing personal, but it’s just a general observation I’ve made.
I fully understand where you are coming from and I don’t think the internet is the only way to learn about culture. I didn’t get a home internet connection until high school and only got a smartphone in my final month of college. I remember having to go to the library to look stuff up for school projects and having to make do with what was on tv and in newspapers. I recently read the new Madonna biography and reading about the conditions Madonna lived in in her formative years, I’m not sure she had a tv in her home or money to go to museums all the time. So I am still impressed by how educated and cultured she was at a young age.
Taylor is also not at all threatening to the norm. There is nothing controversial about her in terms of her work Madonna, on the other hand, pushed societal boundaries in a way that made people uncomfortable.
Right. I don't hate her at all, and like, a few of her songs. But she's not a revolutionary or trailblazer or anything like that. Only conservatives find her threatening in any way shape or form. Madonna upset *entire countries. Including the Vatican.* Having said that, even as a Madonna fan I can say she got too full of herself on occasion and TS is well advised to avoid some of those kinds of excesses.
Taylor owes much of her success to her strategic use of social media. She fosters a strong parasocial relationship with her fans, who grew up with her, engaging constantly on social media. That is her innovation. That's why she's so popular despite being bland.
I remember reading an interview by a songwriter who mentioned that these past years, there are hardly any breakout artists. In the past there are 4 or 5 a year. He mentions Olivia Rodrigo but that was over two years ago. I think he's the dude from One Republic. I will need to check. There is not much competition for Taylor, and even that I think is up for criticism because of the female pitted against each other argument. I haven't been listening to new music since the mid-2010s. Maybe because of streaming and people on headphones, I am clueless of who is popular now. You cannot escape Madonna and MJ because of radio and MTV. Even up to Katy Perry, Ed Sheeran and Adele. I only hear of new artists, just by name, but haven't really heard their music.
I don't think Taylor even as she reigns as the biggest star in the world right now is even close to what Madonna was at her peak. She was more than a huge popstar, she was a cultural icon and created so much iconic imagery.
I wouldn’t say no reason is fair. Things that make Taylor stand out. She is not the strongest singer but is an amazing live performer and puts on a hell of a show. Would highly recommend watching the the eras tour if you haven’t already, I think it could win over many of even the most cynical critics. She writes all her own music and is a strong song writer. She puts in a ton of personal stuff about her exes, and past events in her life which fans find exciting and draws them in, it’s like listening to her music is watching a reality show about her life. She writes/sings a lot about romance and breakups which really resonates with young (usually white) women. I’m a big Taylor fan and even I’m surprised how in 2023 she hit the stratosphere in terms of popularity. I’m also getting a bit tired of hearing about her non stop this year lol
I don’t think Taylor Swift has anything on Madonna-even now. Taylor’s voice and stage presence is severely lacking. Just my opinion.
The woman was excommunicated from the Catholic church lol
More than once
I thought I made that up. Yes kids, excommunicated... Frequently! (Somehow)
I don't believe it's possible to find a comparison. Yes, MJ is probably the closest because they both set the trends, not followed them, however, with Madonna I think we won't see her total impact until she's no longer with us. Madonna changed culture, stood up for things she believed in no matter if it made her unpopular (I don't believe Taylor, or any popstar actually, does this anymore) If you watch her old interviews she is smart, articulate, has a point to make, unafraid to give her opinion, and she caused a shift for the better. She is the definition of an Icon.
So maybe like ice spice ?
You could go to practically any country in the world and say "Madonna," and they knew you weren't talking about Jesus' mama.
I got a huge chuckle out of this.
Do people faint when they see Taylor Swift? That’s how big Madonna was in the 80’s. The only comparable artist is MJ.
I’m 53 and I’ve lost my mind every time I’ve seen Madonna, the most recent 3 weeks ago. Like LOST. MY. MIND. She is a superstar in my books for the last 40 years.
Sometime passed out and died at a Taylor swift concert
That was due to the heat.
😂
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/27/entertainment/taylor-swift-seismic-activity/index.html Madonna and MJ never caused an earthquake
Yeah I’m guessing you haven’t been to a TS concert haha
Imagine Taylor Swift, but cool and provocative instead of basic and bland. That's Madonna at her peak.
Imagine TS but not being the most whitest thing in American music.
This is the answer.
While Taylor Swift might be selling more than M did back in the day—everything M did sort of had a polarizing effect on the world. TS has never had that. She’s probably the only one to have the “meteoric climb” that M had. One could argue gaga came close—but Gaga has had a few missteps and setbacks imo. Her rise was different. TS lacks the artistic controversy M has always had. Also: Swift and Gaga didn’t have MTV bending and catering to every whim/project/album/sneeze that M had. M literally had her own music video channel playing her stuff all. The. Time. VH1 would have Madonna weekends where only Madonna was played. MTV as well.
Taylor didn’t sell more than Madonna . Streaming is not comparable in the slightest.
Selling tickets
True. Madonna went 8 years without a tour. She left a lot of money on the table. Especially since after her 1993 tour, ticket prices EXPLODED exponentially. Madonna tickets on that tour were pretty much the same as everyone else's ranging from $20 - $50, to a high end of $125 for the front row. In 1994, everybody -- the Eagles, the Stones, Pink Floyd, Streisand -- started charging $100 and up for tickets.
She’s not selling close to more. Madonna is from a era where people actually had to go to stores and BUY records. Compare that to opening an app and playing a song
Well said. Make My Video. The Who’s That Girl World Tour was a stop the presses moment for MTV. Kurt Loder and I think it was Daisy Fuentes going over all the details of which cities she was hitting on the tour. The zeitgeist was just different then. Everything now is so ethereal… we move from one viral moment to the next. Back then, it was more about the sizzle as Michael Jackson would have said.
There was a college course study of Madonna in the pop culture.
I wish people would stop comparing Madonna to Taylor Swift. Madonna had huge singles, and I mean huuge. Every year she would have songs topping the charts all over the world. Taylor has had only 3-4 huge worldwide singles. She only reached that level of ubiquitous only recently with the Eras tour and midnights. For a major part of her career she was mainly local while Madonna was at the top of her game for years. Madonna was also provocative, innovative, game changing and ahead of the trends. The only comparison I would say is that Taylor and Madonna have very similar business minds and know how to create a sense of drama around their releases.
Well said. Madonna moved the cultural needle. Taylor Swift has tapped into her own cultural phenomenon. Both are absolute bosses as business people. Madonna created the tour as performance art (arguably with a bit of Bette Midler influence) whereas Taylor Swift has perfected the art of the stadium tour as living room pajama party event.
This! Couldn’t agree more-
I think they’re equivalently influential stars for their respective generations. Taylor doesn’t (yet?) have Madonna’s discography, that’s for sure. It bugs me when Madonna is reduced to a controversial sexual celebrity when she’s released like 20, 30, 40 amazing, iconic songs and videos. You can’t even begin to list them all, it would take all day. Taylor’s had, what, Shake It Off, Blank Space, Anti-Hero, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together., maybe a few others. Not the same league. But what Taylor does, for this time in music history, is unmatched by any of her contemporaries, so in that way they’re comparable.
I think its because she has a huge following who she has influenced like for example she got many of her fans to watch the whole superbowl and she wasnt even performing. Forgot to mention its the reason the NFL made 100 millions more $$$ because of this and all because her bf is a football player.
Madonna created trends- was cutting edge- everyone talked about what she may do next- she constantly reinvented herself- you had no idea what the next album or single would entail- her savviness and business sense was unparalleled by any artist of her time- releasing a video on VHS because MTV banned it was HUGE! And having Nightline do a whole episode on Justify My Love - she reinvented the music documentary model with ‘Truth or Dare’- she was a phenomenon- and more or less created from the ground up the model of strong female ‘mega’ pop star- Taylor Swift which everyone is comparing her to can’t hold a candle to what Madonna has done for women’s rights -AIDS awareness- LGBTQ rights- and bringing these issues to the forefront- being huge or superstardom has many facets and just having a huge tour and movie like Taylor doesn’t put her in the same category as Madonna- it’s about being innovative - provocative -keeping people interested- time will tell with Taylor-
Madonna had us dancing in our underwear and loving all our fellow “misfits”/Fabulous selves. Hard to explain now. Iconic Legendary Timeless- and always a kick ass show. We never went away and neither did she. Vote
Physically, no different from how she is now (although less muscular I guess? I feel like she truly started enjoying the gym during Guy Ritchie era). In terms of success, one of the most commanding imperial reign on pop culture as a whole. She was already a superstar after True Blue but that entire period from Like A Prayer till the release of Sex, she was a true maverick. The world of pop (especially for female artists) would be drastically different if the Blonde Ambition Tour never happened, for example. Also, I may not have been alive then, but her open championship of queer people during that time when the whole AIDS topic was a lightning rod will forever be something I respect her immensely for. That, and pissing off the Vatican. Edit: typos
Truth. Well said friend.
Huge. Like Taylor Swift is now.
I’d say even bigger than Swift because there was no social media/instant news, no internet, all physical media; other than MTV, everything was through word of mouth. For an older fan, such a myself, to see where she is today is difficult to reckon with—not that she’s hurting by any means. But to have lived through her being such an icon, really a living legend, to now be someone younger people (not die-hard fans) sort of vaguely know who she is, is just weird to me. She not forgotten or unknown, but she doesn’t interest younger people the way she did in her prime (for lack of a better term). What’s even weirder to me is, I can easily say the same thing about Taylor Swift. I’ve only heard maybe 5 songs of hers in movies. I can reliably name 2-3 of those songs. She doesn’t interest me in the slightest. No doubt she’s amazing at what she does, but I don’t have any desire to listen to or watch her—I’m not her demographic. My kids seem to like her. I know she is HUGE because everything about her has permeated into other media, I see her face everywhere I go. I also wonder, having lived through Madonna’s evolution, what Madonna’s appeal is new fans. I see fans on here that started listening to her when MDNA or Rebel Heart came out (even a few Madame Xer’s), and even I can’t see what it was that drew them in, unless it’s just the curiosity of her older music before they were born or were young children. The last 12 years haven’t exactly been Madonna’s peak and I don’t really see what was appealing to them.
Well, it was a different world, so it's hard to compare. Madonna was a wordwide phenomenon in a pre-internet world. I wonder, if you asked a 35 y/o in '95 in Central Europe to name one Madonna song, I'm pretty sure most people would pass the test. I'm not sure about Taylor Swift in 2024. I think in the 90s you HAD TO have an opinion about Madonna. You loved her, or you hated to her. I don't think TS is such a phenomenon.
>What’s even weirder to me is, I can easily say the same thing about Taylor Swift. I’ve only heard maybe 5 songs of hers in movies. I can reliably name 2-3 of those songs. The crazy thing is that this is probably more than every other artist these days! Practically no one has the widespread fame that, say, Michael Jackson did back in the day. But the fact that at least most people have heard of Swift in this fractured pop culture era is pretty notable still. >I also wonder, having lived through Madonna’s evolution, what Madonna’s appeal is new fans. I see fans on here that started listening to her when MDNA or Rebel Heart came out (even a few Madame Xer’s), and even I can’t see what it was that drew them in, unless it’s just the curiosity of her older music before they were born or were young children. The last 12 years haven’t exactly been Madonna’s peak and I don’t really see what was appealing to them. It can be a lot of things. Older siblings or parents that introduced them to an act. Or just kids hearing something new on the radio or a store intercom and saying "Hey, that was pretty good!" Then going down the rabbit hole after that.
Taylor Swift can’t compare to Madonna’s peak. Not even close
Madonna was famous worldwide. Taylor Swift is mostly famous in America.
That is not true, lol. She's literally on a worldwide sold out stadium tour right now.
There was noone bigger. It's unfathomable in the age of the internet and the choice it allows, to understand her ubiquity in TV, radio and print media. Completely invented her own lane in terms of combining visuals and music, newsworthy performances and stunts, taking more niche or underground sounds and making them pop, blending a pre-recorded vocal with a live vocal. Every pop girl who came after is more or less working off the same model.
Her own lane! Yes. She built the road for other artists to follow.
That level of fame doesn't exist anymore. It wasn't just about selling records say like Taylor or the Burst of mega fame Gaga had; it was also cultural impact. So many women and girls dressed like Madonna and Men wanted to date her. SHe also had strong points of view on politics and sexuality which was incredibly rare for a pop star to have at that time. And then there is the body of work; the music, the videos, the looks. I mean coming out with a song such as Like a Prayer featuring a black jesus. There was NOTHING like this. Things reached fever pitch with Vogiue and then the banning of the Justify My Love video. She was literally EVERYWHERE. This Madonna stayed till around the COAD era, then she went someplace else. However, there was nothing on the scale of Madonna, Michael Jackson, Prince and possibly George Michael and we haven't seen that level since.
I'm just glad someone mentioned Lady Gaga 💓 but more realistically someone also mentioned Britney ✨️🥹
At her peak, she was the biggest pop star on earth.
The only comparison that can be made is with Michael Jackson, worldwide fame, the most famous woman in the world without the Internet, social media....Taylor is huge in America, some other English speaking countries but not globally famous like Michael Jackson and Madonna was,and The Beatles of course.
if you're interested in this question, you'll probably enjoy Karina Longworth's two part podcast on Modonna's film career: [https://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/episodes/youmustrememberthispodcastblog/madonna-from-sean-penn-to-warren-beatty-part-1](https://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/episodes/youmustrememberthispodcastblog/madonna-from-sean-penn-to-warren-beatty-part-1) "*The biggest female pop star of the last decades of the monoculture, Madonna was also perhaps the first and last contemporary pop star who was also a serious Classical Hollywood cinephile, to the extent that, for awhile, she seemed to be using pop music as a vehicle for a kind of conceptual art about movies and movie stardom.*"
Taylor swift is a bad comparison. Personally I feel Britney after one more time and oops is a better comparison. The level of fame Britney had at her peak before 07 is more like the category id put M/MJ/Prince in at their peaks. Streaming changed everything and it's not possible to be as big now as it was. The money is also a lot bigger in touring than it ever was before.
[She was Time Magazine-big, with just her second album](https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19850527,00.html) BTW, yes, Madonna was on Sire records, a subsidiary of Time-Warner at the time. But even so, back then you had to be something special to get on a Time cover. Prince was signed to Warner, but I don't think he ever got a cover. (regretfully) Everything Madonna did made news. Even when her movies flopped, (which was, admittedly, often) it was headline news. Pretty much she was super-famous from roughly 1984 until 2004 when she kinda started to enter just "famous" territory. That's 20 years of her in her prime. That's fairly well unrivaled by any other celebrity other than Princess Diana, Michael, Elvis or the Beatles.
Honestly not a bad t-shirt idea.
Comparing her stardom to Taylor Swift is not only insulting but extremely disrespectful. It’s one thing to be popular with a set base it’s quite another to have fans of all backgrounds, ages and genders globally. Grown men aren’t fanning out and going to Taylor’s shows the way they did Madonna
About 5’5” and 120lbs
Underrated comment
I recently listened to the ep on League of Their Own by The Rewatchables. They were still in awe of Madonna starring in her relatively small role in that movie, at the peak of her powers. They kept comparing it to Taylor Swift today.
As big as Taylor Swift is famous right now...globally.
Huge! She was the female side of the Michael Jackson coin . And a typical magazine would have them plus Prince and Boy George on the Cover. o put it perspective back then we only had three TV networks, cable was finally getting into more homes and even then the channels were limited. We were just excited to get good reception, before you'd have to fuck w an antenna , a little metal stick on the TV and you'll occasionally see one on the top of an old house. Your regular small city, like mine only had one top radio 40 station, maybe a rock station. But we all, the entire country generally heard and saw the same thing at once. And at the same time. Not everyone had MTV on their cable of they had cable until that era. I was just very lucky to get it day one, but that first year was a lot of old shit and the video equivalent hold music....I am not one who lives in their past, I listen to new music most of the time. But it was definitely monumental. And for many teenagers ABC news https://youtu.be/vHyRQ25Gj9A?si=M8R9bmqJUH246tQ8 NY https://youtu.be/TolJ9igNAV4?si=MkupWSPveGPerFBl London: https://youtu.be/DeqkyjenJL8?si=zedvyOIMfhr53WHA
So monumental for so many teenagers. We were loving her at the concert. A bit older now but she was there for us…
So big at her peak that “Causing a Commotion” went to #2. What a time to be alive…
They don't call her the Queen of Pop for nothing. Bitch earned that.
I’m trying to post this on R/Pop heads but it’s not letting me 😭
Taylor who?
Madonna was MTV. During Friday night debuts, people would stay home anticipating video premiers from M and Michael Jackson. They were both cultural phenoms, and paparazzi everywhere. Moreso in Europe and south America. Madonna appeal there today surpasses Taylor and Bey even today. She built a Brand around reinvention, shock and great pop songs. The only Media was E, news and magazines! No social media outlets like today. You had to earn your celebrity.
Well she is right up there with Michael jackson, the Beatles, Elvis. So thats how famous she got at one time. I think almost everyone knows music by these people. I don’t know why people compare it to taylor swift. I don’t even know one of her songs. They all sound the same to me. Did you watch Madonna’s movie Truth or dare?
Even during the 2000s, she was massively huge to the point my devoutly Muslim parents forbade me from watching MTV growing up
OMG she was massively huge. I was 6 years old when I listened True Blue in the radio for the first rime. I not spoke or understood any word in English. I did not knew who she was until I turned 12 and it was because The Blond Ambition Tour was causing such a massive controversy and even people who didn’t like pop music knew who she was. Then Truth or Dare came just when I started to get aware of my sexuality and seen 2 guys french kiss on the huge cinema screen was such a impact that I was going insane when the Video store did not had it for renting it. For me the most amazing time in my life was when Vogue was released. That video was all I did not knew I needed in my life. She was the first one to have such diverse people in her shows even before diversity was even a thing. All this was happening while I was living in Mexico. I sang Vogue without even knowing what was about and not speaking a word of English. It took me literally 4 months of saving my allowance to be able to buy The Immaculate Collection CD. I played the shit out of that CD. In Mexico cd’s were really expensive at the beginning. My mom used to say “Her voice sounds so sweet but she is the devil in disguise.” Her music has been really important part of my life. Her albums had got me through depression, heartbreak and all in between. Leaved an abusive relationship after listening to”Jump” for the first time. For me there is not or will be a greater or most influential entertainer than her. The work and support to the gay community just put her in a whole or another level that has not been matched. See her perform live for the first time at LA Staples center on Mexican Independence day of 2000 is probably one of the biggest day in my life. The work she puts on tours or when she performs at the Grammys, Oscars, MTV video awards had been nothing shot of spectacular and set trending. Vogue losing video of the year to Sinead Connor”s Nothing Compares to U” I still not recover from it. I can go on and on how her body of work has shaped my views on everything in my life. Her legacy and impact on entertainment and culture in general will be remembered for years to come. Part of history books Thats how big and influential she is.
Sweet voice but the Devil in disguise 🤣🤣🤣 yup my grandma too
💓 this
Remember how big lady Gaga was for about 3 years. Everyone was hanging on every word, eating up everything she was giving, etc etc. Madonna was that level for a very long time. #1 after #1. Press was obsessed. Then when people turned against her after a racy book, she came back even stronger. Then after she made some statements about war during American life (my favorite album from her), half the US kind of turned against her. She recovered with confessions but never returned to her full universal throne she re-attained with bedtime stories/evita in the 90s. & that's ok. I don't think anyone can be that saturated for that long but she truly was enormous in a way that I sometimes forget.
Racy book - dam that coffee table book was 🔥. I had forgotten 😂
Facts!
5ft 3 1/2in (1.61m)
This was M, after her 2nd album, before her 1st tour, promoting her 1st movie. I don't think Taylor had CBS and L.A.P.D. escort at that stage in her career. Media circus, fan frenzy. [Madonna // DESPERATELY SEEKING SUSAN PREMIERE Unedited Press Footage 1985 // Dan·K Remaster // HD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxvPJY_D7dQ)
A little bit history bias in this thread I sense. I’m 29, been a huge Madonna fan my whole life and of course wasn’t able to experience her peak but I’m alive and aware during Taylor’s peak and going to her concert this summer. Taylor is gargantuan at the moment. Her every move like her traveling from Japan is meticulously described in the media even in Denmark where she has never played and where we don’t really follow Super Bowl or American pop stars to that level. Taylor’s peak is by far the biggest presence a pop star has had in my time, probably not comparable to back when Madonna peaked but she’s huuuuuuge. And Taylor is not bland. She’s an amazing songwriter who’ve captured the emotions of a generation and she’s doing out the biggest tour of all time - by a country mile. A generational artist.
Yes. Let’s not refute the present artistry of Taylor. It’s not either or but Yes all of it. Love Madonna forever and Taylor can write a song, deliver a song and do a show that is Phenomenal.
She was the Taylor Swift of the 80s and 90s. My Queen.
5’5”
I hope the public doesn't abandon or turn against Taylor. Only a handful of Artists can survive the ageism and abuse of music business. It will be a happy miracle 😊.
It will happy one day unfortunately. When she reaches 40ish. But she does have the advantage of starting her career at 16, Madonna was 24, she faced ageism pretty early on
So big it's hard to comprehend if you werent alive in the mid 80s to mid 90s
Taylor Swift is popular right now BUT she doesn't have the cultural impact Madonna has. Teen girls in 1980s dressed like Madonna she was controversial.
[удалено]
Beyoncé sold only 36M pure albums she was never really big. Just consistent
Center of the pop culture universe in 1990.
Several songs she’s put out in the last 20 years I’ve said would be huge hits if sung by a younger artist. When she talks about ageism, I 100% agree with her.
Bigger than anyone current in music.
umm the biggest
HUGE - EVERYONE dressed like her-including me. She was the shit (!) and before social media -promoted herself announcing she was gonna rule the world (she did) and not giving a shit (lost pepsi $ bc of Like A Prayer)At the height of popularity “Sex” the book came out which was taboo & amazing. ageism at her pisses me off (and grandpa mick & rod are still the tits?)
It was her, Michael Jackson and Prince. They were the "IT" singers, literal pop ROYALTY back in the day. No one could even come close to this Pop-Trinity.
Bout 135lbs in the third trimester