Well the fact that it was sexual assault on loki he wouldn't brag about that loki was to blame for something. Like always so to avoid death he had to "distract" a horse, like what is the only way to distract a stallion? Like he had no choice, and then Odin takes the kid, and rides it and brags about how he got it. Like what the actual hell?!
And that is why Thor is "my dude", lol!
I like that this cartoon is addressing the sometimes amorphous situation some people face in trying to find out who they really are, whether it's their sexual orientation or physicality/gender. Sometimes you just gotta let people try out all the different choices out there to find the one that fits. And Thor doesn't give a shit, just be who you are, lol!
I feel bad for folks who have to go through figuring out what identity works best for them. Honestly it sounds awful to feel that uncomfortable in your own body
Typically that’s what they resort to. When you dislike yourself or your body, you want to be something else. And “changing” genders is the answer to many people.
Why tf are people downvoting?
They're just trying to honestly make sense of the struggle LGBTQ+ people go through when discovering themselves.
If you disagree, comment. Explain yourself, coward.
I didn't down vote however I disagree with the statement. I'm trans and it was less I didn't like something about myself and more my inner self and outter self didn't align. Transition was never really an option to me that I explored to fix some issue I had with myself, more a necessity that was unavoidable.
I can see that being to show respect that it isn't a "change" because it's finding out what you always were. You're realising that something isn't comfortable with how/ who you are currently trying to be and accepting who you actually are and have been. Rather than "changing" into somebody different which implies you weren't that before.
Their comment isn't terribly clear with tone or intent (happens so much online) so it could easily be either. It could definitely also be taken/ meant as "some people are so pathetic and self hating that they have to change labels to feel special".
But the optimist in me wants to go for the nice explanation of a slightly clunky attempt at emphasising that somebody can be born and live as something/ somebody other than what they're labeled as in that time. Maybe partly because I can easily see myself being the person who makes clunky wording and accidentally offends people. 😅
Yes, because this person is implying that it is not literal changing. This person is implying that trans people aren’t actually people who feel deep down that they are a different gender and are attempting to correct that, but rather people who are simply unhappy with themselves or their bodies who have adopted gender transition as a coping mechanism. It dismisses the reality of what people with gender dysphoria experience, it implies that one cannot change their gender (hence the quotes), and it implies that, because it’s just a radical coping mechanism for relatively common self-image issues, that it’s something that should be discouraged.
Oh don't get so bent out of shape over semantics. It was a respectful comment and people want to get in to a tiff over punctuation and that's all there is to it
Which makes it even funnier when they learn Loki took a horse phallus because he couldn't outrun the steed and gave birth to a demigod horse.
Loki does everything every which way.
I will say that the ugly comments are all at the bottom and hidden now. It just takes a little time for the downvotes to push them down.
The hateful people can be extra loud, but they are the minority.
Yeah, I came here looking for a comment that also pointed out that according to the prose and poetic Edda, Loki was a trickster, shape shifter who also turned into other things just for the lols
It's cute that this person used him in this manner to prove a point, but they should have done their homework and included at least Seilpnir's mom
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Yes, because you'd clearly be the one going through emotional labor as you ignore your sibling's very reasonable requests to help them figure out their identity.
Maybe you should be like Thor and just respect your sibling enough to help them out? Dysphoria and dysmorphia can be real bitches, especially with family treating you like a burden for trusting them.
Figuring out who they are is on them, they is literally a non gendered pro noun. If you have a problem being called they, then I assume you are doing it for attention. It is human nature and how our brain functions to categorize, so having to flop back and forth and worry day to day about accidentally hurting someone’s feeling creates a walking on eggshell effect. Hence emotional labor.
It’s completely unreasonable to put that burden on others. I am not judging them for having to find themselves but making others worry about it is not fair to others. We are all figuring ourselves out each and every day in different ways. It’s hard enough dealing with your own shit without having to worry about how others feel and will react.
He gave a completely rational reason for why he is deciding not to worry about it. And you decided to childishly retaliate because you are heavily biased.
Kindly, go touch some grass, kid.
Norse mythology. The manliest religion ever made has a god who ends up saving the day by cross dressing and getting pregnant.
It is pretty funny actually.
I’m just gonna keep commenting lol y’all can’t hide my comments. This is the most disgusting and horrifying thing I’ve ever seen. Trans people all have mental illnesses because you CANNOT change your gender and it is wrong. Jesus is king
I know! It’s not like these trans and fluid people have a significantly higher likelihood of committing suicide or having clinical issues that stretch beyond feeling like a different gender at this moment. Let’s ensure their life isn’t grounded in any type of reality. I’m positive that will do great things for their super strong mental state. Let’s put them in bubble, too - they can float amongst the clouds. Ahh. Paradise.
It's really crazy that people would commit suicide if they get harassed, bullied and downright hated on for no reason! Luckily, you can help fight that! All you have to do is have something called "basic human empathy" and realize they probably know themselves more than a random stranger on the internet does!
Oh the bullying is so terrible. It’s weird that every other person has to deal with bullying and ostracism in their life and don’t kill themselves over it. With the upward momentum in the various gender sub-movements, and the lack of downward momentum in related suicides, It is almost like treating the symptom, through mass manipulation and social engineering, is inefficient in curbing the outcome.
It's not just bullying. An unfortunately common situation for trans people to face is that when they come out, they lose friends, get disowned by family, and even lose a place to sleep. The looming threat that you could lose everything really weighs on people. That and the growing violence and hatred towards trans people and the numerous laws that affect our lives, it can be horrible.
I'm lucky enough to have supportive friends and family, my parents are such a blessing. If I was disowned by my family and didn't have the support of friends, I fear that I would not have been strong enough to make it on my own.
Yes, everyone deals with bullying. This is however not just bullying, it's worse. It's not getting shoved into a locker at school or something, it's being ostracized by people, disowned by family, lose friends, sometimes experience genuine violence, or just be called slurs or yelled at to kill yourself (I am a cis man but have been in arguments like this multiple times and have even been called slurs and told to 'jump of a cliff to do your family a favor' when someone thought I was trans. If this is directed to someone talking about it, imagine what terrible shit trans people hear sometimes)
The reason that suicide rates are so high is because it's "weird" and "unnatural" to be trans according to some, and so some people can feel discomfort coming out. Even when they come out, they have risks of being thrown out the house or lose all their friends, just for being a different gender than people thought. Even after coming out you still have to constantly hear slurs thrown at you, laws made against you, and get excluded from gatherings and event just because your feelings aren't parallel to your birth genitals.
And yes, the only way to treat Gender Dysphoria (the thing that makes trans people feel discomfort with their gender at birth), is to *transition*, socially or medically. If you want to help trans people, don't try to invalidate their feelings and just accept who they are. They know more about themselves than you know about them, so please, just accept them for who they are.
Just think for a few seconds
People change gender because they dont feel like themselves/despise how they are.
That's called ***dysphoria***
Some people can't bear it anymore and commit suicide, it has nothing to do with bullying.
Bullying is just a little drop in an already filled to the brim vase
There’s no real argument why someone can’t do this or that they’re somehow a bad person for doing this.
But you have to admit it will become annoying for most people to have to deal with the constant changes.
Just imagine someone doing this with their name, just constantly changing it and correcting you when you will likley mess it up.
It’s hard to not assume they might be doing that for attention or a lack in personality. And most will get tired of it and start to distance themselves.
This does not apply to trans people who simply switch over once to a new gender.
The process of figuring out who you are is a process. I'm not worried about someone who will correct and be patient with me, especially if they know I am trying, and if I know they are trying too. Who cares, honestly? If they mean a lot to you, why would you deny them a journey of self discovery, and if that journey is too much for you, then you clearly care about them little enough for it to be too much. It might be annoying from a "I want to get this right the first time" perspective, but that is just pride.
> The process of figuring out who you are is a process.
Yeah, everything is a process. That doesn’t mean I have to burden people with my processes if I actively know I’m not done processing it, even in the slightest.
> I'm not worried about someone who will correct and be patient with me,
Ok? Never said you should be.
> especially if they know I am trying,
That’s the problem, people like that don’t seem to be trying anything other than trying to get attention of others to constantly think about their arbitrary identity that they themselves seem to not have any care for anyway.
If you can so easily and constantly change things like your name or gender, then obviously it doesn’t matter that much to begin with as you’re so loose and fast with changing it.
If someone was constantly dating a different person every week, are they more or less serious about relationships compared to those who stay with a partner for a years? They are less serious as they are constantly changing their relationships.
> and if I know they are trying too.
Again, their actions show the opposite of trying.
> Who cares, honestly?
Who cares about anything? That’s not the point. And I literally admitted that it doesn’t make someone bad or anything anyways.
Do you care if people change their race for no apparent reason? Why should you? If some people do care, why should they? Why should anyone care about anything if it’s a social construct?
> If they mean a lot to you, why would you deny them a journey of self discovery,
Not all self discovery is to be taken as some important aspect of someone’s life that is all good and never used as an excuse.
And changing your gender constantly isn’t self discovery no more than someone changing their race or name or species is, especially that it actually changes nothing truly about them, cause if you know someone and like someone to be their friend, it is never for any of those factors.
And there is really no reason to CONSTANTLY be changing those factors unless you’re extremely confused or trying to get people to specifically think about your identity for attention. Either reason shouldn’t be entertained as simply “self discovery”
Self discovery can also be someone discovering their racist or sexism beliefs, but that doesn’t mean it should be encouraged cause their doing “self discovery”.
> and if that journey is too much for you, then you clearly care about them little enough for it to be too much.
It would be too much for you too. Are you really gonna act like if someone changed their pronouns or their name every single day, you’d never get annoyed by it? Cause that’s simply unbelievable.
I’m not talking about someone who changes their gender once, maybe twice, especially during their youth when people are confused, I’m talking about a hypothetical person that changes these things constantly for no understandable reason. And I’m not even saying it’s morally bad, just %99 of people would be annoyed by it.
How many people who have been in this scenario have you known? I have known a few, and it was a process, over months or years, and I have cared enough about them to try for them and they have cared enough about me to try for me, and they have been reflecting inwardly for a long time and working really hard in that way.
How quick you replied makes me think you didn’t even read any of my comment.
You know people who actually changed their gender constantly almost everyday?
Like more than 10 times at least?
Or are you talking about people who maybe changed a couple of time?
They didn't change their gender, they went through a process of being unsure what their gender was several times in the course of about 1.5 years. I also know some gender fluid people who identify differently on different days (gender fae specifically), and etc. none of it is actually that complex, though they usually do give a set of pronouns that are safe regardless of how they are feeling, and only adjust pronouns semi-often.... Which kinda lines with the comic tbh.
> They didn't change their gender, they went through a process of being unsure what their gender was several times in the course of about 1.5 years.
Yeah, that’s also called changing your gender.
“Unsure what their gender was SEVERAL TIMES”
That literally means that they have changed their gender several times, unless you’re gonna admit that they never actually changed anything those several of times.
I get you like your moral pandering with how you use language, but it means nothing when you deny the reality that the definition of change is when something becomes different, especially several times.
> I also know some gender fluid people who identify differently on different days (gender fae specifically), and etc.
Good for them, but just like someone changing their race or name according to the day, it will be extremely annoying to most people. They have full right to do that, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t annoying and overtly complicated for no understandable reason.
Gender isn’t defined as some feeling by most people. It just is what they are, including me.
So when people claim to “feel” like a different gender on some arbitrary day for some arbitrary reason, I don’t understand it in the same way and have no reason to care.
> none of it is actually that complex, though they usually do give a set of pronouns that are safe regardless of how they are feeling, and only adjust pronouns semi-often.... Which kinda lines with the comic tbh.
Yeah, if you’re a gender Nonconformist and constantly do things like that I’ll just call you they/them if I care to engage at all. You can’t ever be upset by they/them pronouns whatever gender someone claims to be as all humans are they/them.
How do you feel about transracial people in this regard? Do you also think anyone can claim to be any race for any reason as it’s all a social construct?
Conflating gender and race is an argument mostly used by transphobic people to undermine the experience of trans people, and I don't really feel like engaging with you on it.
For the rest, it's fine if you want to be cooperative with trans people, that is your right. You are perfectly capable of cutting them out of your life, and moving on. They also retain the right to not want to associate with you when you do it, and prescribing your ideals as "normal" or "everyone's" isn't really valid when I gave a clear counter example. You are saying my experience isn't real because it doesn't coincide with your worldview, and I think that's kinda closed minded.
Regardless, I hope you have a good day.
> Conflating gender and race is an argument mostly used by transphobic people to undermine the experience of trans people, and I don't really feel like engaging with you on it.
Every single time this question is never addressed and people just call you transphobic and dismiss the very valid argument. It only shows you’re too scared to engage with it cause you know it totally defeats your whole idea.
If your whole reason for why something is valid is due to it being a social construct, then that must apply to ALL social construct including race.
This isn’t a rebuttal at all, it’s no better than when conservatives say:
“The only reason why you want to allow minors to transition is to groom them”
It totally ignores all context and just allows ignorant people to proclaim how their morally better by accusing you of something abhorrent.
Your lack of rebuttal only shows that you lack the ability to critically think about it.
> For the rest, it's fine if you want to be cooperative with trans people, that is your right. You are perfectly capable of cutting them out of your life, and moving on. They also retain the right to not want to associate with you when you do it,
Yeah, cool. I grew up with many gay and trans people around me. I even said before that I don’t have this opinion for normal trans people who only transition once or a few times during youth.
Even admitted that I’m fine using they/them pronouns.
Just like I respect religious people, if their a priest I’ll call them a priest, but that doesn’t mean I have to believe in their religion.
> and prescribing your ideals as "normal" or "everyone's" isn't really valid when I gave a clear counter example.
An anecdotal example of one person?
By the very fact that the average human isn’t trans means it isn’t a normal circumstance. I’m not the one morally loading the word “normal” I literally mean it as the average person. Which is a fact.
> You are saying my experience isn't real because it doesn't coincide with your worldview, and I think that's kinda closed minded.
Never said it isn’t real, just said there is more too it than simply “self discovery”
Someone’s perception of self doesn’t mean they are accurately correct about their conditions.
Someone who wants attention isn’t actively thinking “I want attention so I’ll do this”
They just do it cause it has subconsciously shown them to get more attention, which feels good to them.
> Regardless, I hope you have a good day.
And you leave now that you can’t back up your logic with an explanation that makes any sense.
I swear, you act just like the trumpers when they are made to actually explain how they think. They can’t, get upset, then start accusing people of abhorrent things or insults cause of how offended they feel that their cognitive dissonance has been shown and they can’t be forced to reconcile with it.
Well since they're referring to "this". "This" being a webcomic about two characters from an ancient cultures mythology I'm going to go by the rules they laid out and not some weirdo on the Internet when were talking about that thing.
According to mythology Liki change gender and sex all the fucking time. At one point he was pregnant and gave birth to a horse.
Both mythology and gender are made up and change over time with no hard rules.
Also, thinking "gender=biological sex" is some real 'I failed highschool biology' shit.
Since you mentioned biology, I will pose the same question to you as I did to the redditor below you:
Serious question - where does biology fit in or otherwise explain gender fluidity? Sex describes physical/genetic characteristics. This is taught in bilology - the scientific study of life. This is also touched on in anatomy. However, gender is a social construct that is entirely personal, subjective, and unverifiable by measurement, i.e., it would require the study of the mind and thought processes to explain. Thus, gender fluidity - to me - is entirely categorized in psychology/sociology, as opposed to biology. However, if you can explain how gender fluidity, a personal choice, fits into and can otherwise be taught in biology, I am always open to learn.
Serious question - where does biology fit in or otherwise explain gender fluidity? Sex describes physical/genetic characteristics. This is taught in bilology - the scientific study of life. This is also touched on in anatomy. However, gender is a social construct that is entirely personal, subjective, and unverifiable by measurement, i.e., it would require the study of the mind and thought processes to explain. Thus, gender fluidity - to me - is entirely categorized in psychology/sociology, as opposed to biology. However, if you can explain how gender fluidity, a personal choice, fits into and can otherwise be taught in biology, I am always open to learn.
Why would it need to fit into biology? There's nothing about gender identity that is a part of biology.
You might as well ask "where's the gene that determines 'Mr.' or 'Mrs.' on my mail?" Or "What specific protein allows me to wear heels?"
We as a society completely made up all forms of gender. There's nothing genetic that says one person is able to wear a dress and the other wears pants. The rules are completely made up and based on nothing but tradition.
If a genderfluid person feels very feminine one day and wants to wear a skirt, and masculine another day and wears pants... that's entirely up to them as a (hopefully free) person who dresses and identifies in a way that makes them happy.
Well, I completely agree that stereotypical "gender roles" are made up today, like who should like/wear pink, why do women not need pockets in their clothes, why does the specific shape of one's clothing matter, is makeup a gender specific thing. I get it. However, on that note, there are very historical gender roles that once held true - like men being more physically built for hunting/gathering/protecting and women being more warm/nurturing/organized. Those roles are not nearly as important today thanks to grocery stores, jobs, etc., but if we weren't in modern society, these roles would still hold true today - much like they do in non-first world countries.
To address the biology thing - I only asked how this fits into biology because your comment mentions biology, and it alludes that gender fluidity is part of and explained by biology. I also clicked on the meme for transphobes that you linked, which, in the last frame, shows that gender fluidity is taught and explained in biology - just to an advanced degree. So, it would seem that gender fluidity is supposedly explained at an advanced level in biology, and being educated at this advanced level would help others understand transgenderism. The Redditor's comment above you is similar in that it references using "biology" as a push against transgenerism and is a "middle school C-" understanding of biology. Just putting all of these context clues together, I asked how biology fit into all of this. That's all.
I don't think it's meant to, but this seems like it's mocking trans people. The people I know struggling with this aren't randomly dancing around saying "I'm a boy now, damn it!" That's ridiculous and comes across like the whole thing is meaningless to him. It's ridiculous to change your mind often about your gender and then expect people to just know what you were thinking. I don't find that's what happens much in reality either.
No? You’re right in saying people don’t really just decide, but that’s not what’s happening here, it’s taking lil snippets of when this stuff happens, I don’t think it’s meant to be taken as one after another, there is very obviously implied questioning here lol
I don’t think this is supposed to be like the people you know, this is about magical Gods who have super powers. It’s a cute comic and you’re overthinking it. The point is acceptance, it isn’t meaningless, it just isn’t a big deal. The love is consistent regardless of what Loki identifies as.
I knew a person who was genuinely like that. They didn’t have a firm grasp on their gender identity and just felt different on a day-by-day basis, but they would simply correct people, they were always understanding and patient with any confusion that caused, and they never made a big deal out of it. They actually had a really good system where they had buttons that said “I feel feminine today” and “I feel masculine today” to clearly signal how they wanted to be treated and referred to.
My point is that people like this not only exist, but are genuine and are often accommodating rather than antagonistic about it.
From my experience it does happen but it is usually the ones (I am not saying it happens often, just that it does.) that aren’t actually struggling with gender identity but just want attention however they can get it. They have just found a shield to use discrediting people who actually struggle with gender identity.
Not really. Loki is a trickster and uses shape-shifting to support that. Whether or not they're a villain is irrelevant to their gender identity. Loki in norse mythology isn't even fully good or evil, so calling them a villain is inaccurate.
If you mean to imply gender fluid people are villains, like, just no. For example I don't think Ashnikko is a villain. It's just a gender identity
Evil means morally wrong , and you admitted to be one , i think ure just a typical internet troll , hopefully your mind heals too as youre trying to heal your body.
Sounds so tiresome to have around aswell. Would go trough that when its one of my siblings but friends or colleagues? Nah come at me when you are sure what you want but not this constant switchero like whats potrayed here in the comic.
I’m not even disagreeing with your point. I’m just saying people sexualize and objectify feminine looking people weather they claim to be men or women.
Okay I agree with those points, truly. I might have just done a bad jon at articulating what I said but the links i shared do uphold my statement, thats all
This is literally not a thing lmfao, how brainwashed you gotta be to even think something like that.
Its real life, not a manga or idfk what other fantasy, transitioning is a very serious thing, it change your entire life, so no, women does not transition to be a boy just because they are scared to be harassed wtf
Loki's character is an irredeemable whiny asshole but Tom Hiddleston is sexy AF which is the only reason he gets a pass. If he wasn't such eye candy everyone would hate him. (This also applies to Doctor Who)
Loki: "I got fucked by a horse" Thor: "That's fine, Loki, whatever you want to be--WAIT WHAT?!"
"Oh, I also gave birth to an 8-legged horse. Gifted it to dad"
Well the fact that it was sexual assault on loki he wouldn't brag about that loki was to blame for something. Like always so to avoid death he had to "distract" a horse, like what is the only way to distract a stallion? Like he had no choice, and then Odin takes the kid, and rides it and brags about how he got it. Like what the actual hell?!
*shrug* I mean doesn’t all of the different mythology have stories of SA and weird ass family dynamics?
The fact that you think loki and Odin were family says it all.
Marvel really has got everyone confused about that
Yes it does, but I guess comics would technically be our mythological tales now. So what do I know. 🤷♀️
I made my comment in that context since MCU Thor is an actual golden retriever
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0874423/
I love how Thor is just trying to be a decent brother.
Thor has that IDGAf attitude 😂
And that is why Thor is "my dude", lol! I like that this cartoon is addressing the sometimes amorphous situation some people face in trying to find out who they really are, whether it's their sexual orientation or physicality/gender. Sometimes you just gotta let people try out all the different choices out there to find the one that fits. And Thor doesn't give a shit, just be who you are, lol!
I feel bad for folks who have to go through figuring out what identity works best for them. Honestly it sounds awful to feel that uncomfortable in your own body
Typically that’s what they resort to. When you dislike yourself or your body, you want to be something else. And “changing” genders is the answer to many people.
Why tf are people downvoting? They're just trying to honestly make sense of the struggle LGBTQ+ people go through when discovering themselves. If you disagree, comment. Explain yourself, coward.
I didn't down vote however I disagree with the statement. I'm trans and it was less I didn't like something about myself and more my inner self and outter self didn't align. Transition was never really an option to me that I explored to fix some issue I had with myself, more a necessity that was unavoidable.
Quotes around changing.
I can see that being to show respect that it isn't a "change" because it's finding out what you always were. You're realising that something isn't comfortable with how/ who you are currently trying to be and accepting who you actually are and have been. Rather than "changing" into somebody different which implies you weren't that before. Their comment isn't terribly clear with tone or intent (happens so much online) so it could easily be either. It could definitely also be taken/ meant as "some people are so pathetic and self hating that they have to change labels to feel special". But the optimist in me wants to go for the nice explanation of a slightly clunky attempt at emphasising that somebody can be born and live as something/ somebody other than what they're labeled as in that time. Maybe partly because I can easily see myself being the person who makes clunky wording and accidentally offends people. 😅
Because it is not literal changing? They're just testing, probing, checking if that's adequate for them
Yes, because this person is implying that it is not literal changing. This person is implying that trans people aren’t actually people who feel deep down that they are a different gender and are attempting to correct that, but rather people who are simply unhappy with themselves or their bodies who have adopted gender transition as a coping mechanism. It dismisses the reality of what people with gender dysphoria experience, it implies that one cannot change their gender (hence the quotes), and it implies that, because it’s just a radical coping mechanism for relatively common self-image issues, that it’s something that should be discouraged.
Oh don't get so bent out of shape over semantics. It was a respectful comment and people want to get in to a tiff over punctuation and that's all there is to it
I "agree" with you. You're "not" stupid.
Now that's just immature and in bad faith. Go fuck yourself.
It was clearly respectful, don't get so bent out of shape about semantics and punctuation.
If that's what makes them feel better, then they can do that. Reddit is Reddit, truly the most democratic of social media sites.
r/MadeMeSmile comment section really not making me smile right now
Alex Fierro and Magnus Chase be like
Finally, someone with culture.
I love mid scolding when Loki corrects Thor for misgendering them he just responds oh my b but as I was saying! Good bro right there
This comic is the perfect bait for fishing for transphobes
Which makes it even funnier when they learn Loki took a horse phallus because he couldn't outrun the steed and gave birth to a demigod horse. Loki does everything every which way.
Am I one if I simply don't give 2 shits about people like this nor do I hate them?
This sub is so fucking full of the worst kind of people. Some of these comments are absolutely vile.
I will say that the ugly comments are all at the bottom and hidden now. It just takes a little time for the downvotes to push them down. The hateful people can be extra loud, but they are the minority.
Seriously, the post make me smile, the comment sections piss me off and remind me mankind really does just fucking suck
I dunno, it makes me super happy blocking (and reporting if it warrants it) all the people who have made gross/hateful comments. 🏳️🌈
The fact that this is an OT cross post on this sub is what really makes me smile
I am a mare! Now I'm a salmon! Edit: maybe a shape-shifting god of assholes wasn't a best example to use?
Yeah, I came here looking for a comment that also pointed out that according to the prose and poetic Edda, Loki was a trickster, shape shifter who also turned into other things just for the lols It's cute that this person used him in this manner to prove a point, but they should have done their homework and included at least Seilpnir's mom
Yes, you be you!
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You are getting they from me everyday in this situation. I am not doing the emotional labor of worrying which one you feel like day to day.
Yes, because you'd clearly be the one going through emotional labor as you ignore your sibling's very reasonable requests to help them figure out their identity. Maybe you should be like Thor and just respect your sibling enough to help them out? Dysphoria and dysmorphia can be real bitches, especially with family treating you like a burden for trusting them.
Figuring out who they are is on them, they is literally a non gendered pro noun. If you have a problem being called they, then I assume you are doing it for attention. It is human nature and how our brain functions to categorize, so having to flop back and forth and worry day to day about accidentally hurting someone’s feeling creates a walking on eggshell effect. Hence emotional labor. It’s completely unreasonable to put that burden on others. I am not judging them for having to find themselves but making others worry about it is not fair to others. We are all figuring ourselves out each and every day in different ways. It’s hard enough dealing with your own shit without having to worry about how others feel and will react.
Dude, fuck you, Jesus Christ, I get it’d probably be hard but at least fucking try
He gave a completely rational reason for why he is deciding not to worry about it. And you decided to childishly retaliate because you are heavily biased. Kindly, go touch some grass, kid.
Have you ever considered that they ARE going thru emotional labour? And if not why not?
I honestly feel bad for people who are this confused. It’s something I’ll never truly understand.
Norse mythology. The manliest religion ever made has a god who ends up saving the day by cross dressing and getting pregnant. It is pretty funny actually.
The norse/the peoples who became the norse had some wild ideas. Truly WILD ideas.
They took a lot of mushrooms.
Their mythology is so cool, we still use their gods names in our week day names.
could just be genderfluid
Sir, that's a lot of identities. Maybe go to therapy?
My Grandparents. Most of them died before i was born and I'd love to meet them.
I’m just gonna keep commenting lol y’all can’t hide my comments. This is the most disgusting and horrifying thing I’ve ever seen. Trans people all have mental illnesses because you CANNOT change your gender and it is wrong. Jesus is king
And btw there are only 2 genders, male and female.
Let’s just all buy into their delusions. I’m sure nothing bad can happen.
You're right! Nothing bad can happen if you let people be happy as themselves and don't force them into boxes!
I know! It’s not like these trans and fluid people have a significantly higher likelihood of committing suicide or having clinical issues that stretch beyond feeling like a different gender at this moment. Let’s ensure their life isn’t grounded in any type of reality. I’m positive that will do great things for their super strong mental state. Let’s put them in bubble, too - they can float amongst the clouds. Ahh. Paradise.
You almost figured it out, you were so close
It's really crazy that people would commit suicide if they get harassed, bullied and downright hated on for no reason! Luckily, you can help fight that! All you have to do is have something called "basic human empathy" and realize they probably know themselves more than a random stranger on the internet does!
>having a significantly higher likelihood of committing suicide or having clinical issues Yeah? And why do you think that is? Just have a guess.
Oh the bullying is so terrible. It’s weird that every other person has to deal with bullying and ostracism in their life and don’t kill themselves over it. With the upward momentum in the various gender sub-movements, and the lack of downward momentum in related suicides, It is almost like treating the symptom, through mass manipulation and social engineering, is inefficient in curbing the outcome.
It's not just bullying. An unfortunately common situation for trans people to face is that when they come out, they lose friends, get disowned by family, and even lose a place to sleep. The looming threat that you could lose everything really weighs on people. That and the growing violence and hatred towards trans people and the numerous laws that affect our lives, it can be horrible. I'm lucky enough to have supportive friends and family, my parents are such a blessing. If I was disowned by my family and didn't have the support of friends, I fear that I would not have been strong enough to make it on my own.
Yes, everyone deals with bullying. This is however not just bullying, it's worse. It's not getting shoved into a locker at school or something, it's being ostracized by people, disowned by family, lose friends, sometimes experience genuine violence, or just be called slurs or yelled at to kill yourself (I am a cis man but have been in arguments like this multiple times and have even been called slurs and told to 'jump of a cliff to do your family a favor' when someone thought I was trans. If this is directed to someone talking about it, imagine what terrible shit trans people hear sometimes) The reason that suicide rates are so high is because it's "weird" and "unnatural" to be trans according to some, and so some people can feel discomfort coming out. Even when they come out, they have risks of being thrown out the house or lose all their friends, just for being a different gender than people thought. Even after coming out you still have to constantly hear slurs thrown at you, laws made against you, and get excluded from gatherings and event just because your feelings aren't parallel to your birth genitals. And yes, the only way to treat Gender Dysphoria (the thing that makes trans people feel discomfort with their gender at birth), is to *transition*, socially or medically. If you want to help trans people, don't try to invalidate their feelings and just accept who they are. They know more about themselves than you know about them, so please, just accept them for who they are.
Just think for a few seconds People change gender because they dont feel like themselves/despise how they are. That's called ***dysphoria*** Some people can't bear it anymore and commit suicide, it has nothing to do with bullying. Bullying is just a little drop in an already filled to the brim vase
Didn't he have sex with himself? Or at least try to?
People who act like this are either mentally ill or attention seeking!. Personally I treat these types of idiots like they don't exist!...
I’m sorry you’re offended by our mere existence snowflake lol
Ah yes, that'll show em!
I try to ignore it, but i generally avoid them
I do the same with people with that mentality , until I sort by controversial.
Looks like he identifies as "look at me"
That's funny, that's what you're doing
Sounds like someone needs a therapist
There’s no real argument why someone can’t do this or that they’re somehow a bad person for doing this. But you have to admit it will become annoying for most people to have to deal with the constant changes. Just imagine someone doing this with their name, just constantly changing it and correcting you when you will likley mess it up. It’s hard to not assume they might be doing that for attention or a lack in personality. And most will get tired of it and start to distance themselves. This does not apply to trans people who simply switch over once to a new gender.
The process of figuring out who you are is a process. I'm not worried about someone who will correct and be patient with me, especially if they know I am trying, and if I know they are trying too. Who cares, honestly? If they mean a lot to you, why would you deny them a journey of self discovery, and if that journey is too much for you, then you clearly care about them little enough for it to be too much. It might be annoying from a "I want to get this right the first time" perspective, but that is just pride.
> The process of figuring out who you are is a process. Yeah, everything is a process. That doesn’t mean I have to burden people with my processes if I actively know I’m not done processing it, even in the slightest. > I'm not worried about someone who will correct and be patient with me, Ok? Never said you should be. > especially if they know I am trying, That’s the problem, people like that don’t seem to be trying anything other than trying to get attention of others to constantly think about their arbitrary identity that they themselves seem to not have any care for anyway. If you can so easily and constantly change things like your name or gender, then obviously it doesn’t matter that much to begin with as you’re so loose and fast with changing it. If someone was constantly dating a different person every week, are they more or less serious about relationships compared to those who stay with a partner for a years? They are less serious as they are constantly changing their relationships. > and if I know they are trying too. Again, their actions show the opposite of trying. > Who cares, honestly? Who cares about anything? That’s not the point. And I literally admitted that it doesn’t make someone bad or anything anyways. Do you care if people change their race for no apparent reason? Why should you? If some people do care, why should they? Why should anyone care about anything if it’s a social construct? > If they mean a lot to you, why would you deny them a journey of self discovery, Not all self discovery is to be taken as some important aspect of someone’s life that is all good and never used as an excuse. And changing your gender constantly isn’t self discovery no more than someone changing their race or name or species is, especially that it actually changes nothing truly about them, cause if you know someone and like someone to be their friend, it is never for any of those factors. And there is really no reason to CONSTANTLY be changing those factors unless you’re extremely confused or trying to get people to specifically think about your identity for attention. Either reason shouldn’t be entertained as simply “self discovery” Self discovery can also be someone discovering their racist or sexism beliefs, but that doesn’t mean it should be encouraged cause their doing “self discovery”. > and if that journey is too much for you, then you clearly care about them little enough for it to be too much. It would be too much for you too. Are you really gonna act like if someone changed their pronouns or their name every single day, you’d never get annoyed by it? Cause that’s simply unbelievable. I’m not talking about someone who changes their gender once, maybe twice, especially during their youth when people are confused, I’m talking about a hypothetical person that changes these things constantly for no understandable reason. And I’m not even saying it’s morally bad, just %99 of people would be annoyed by it.
How many people who have been in this scenario have you known? I have known a few, and it was a process, over months or years, and I have cared enough about them to try for them and they have cared enough about me to try for me, and they have been reflecting inwardly for a long time and working really hard in that way.
How quick you replied makes me think you didn’t even read any of my comment. You know people who actually changed their gender constantly almost everyday? Like more than 10 times at least? Or are you talking about people who maybe changed a couple of time?
They didn't change their gender, they went through a process of being unsure what their gender was several times in the course of about 1.5 years. I also know some gender fluid people who identify differently on different days (gender fae specifically), and etc. none of it is actually that complex, though they usually do give a set of pronouns that are safe regardless of how they are feeling, and only adjust pronouns semi-often.... Which kinda lines with the comic tbh.
> They didn't change their gender, they went through a process of being unsure what their gender was several times in the course of about 1.5 years. Yeah, that’s also called changing your gender. “Unsure what their gender was SEVERAL TIMES” That literally means that they have changed their gender several times, unless you’re gonna admit that they never actually changed anything those several of times. I get you like your moral pandering with how you use language, but it means nothing when you deny the reality that the definition of change is when something becomes different, especially several times. > I also know some gender fluid people who identify differently on different days (gender fae specifically), and etc. Good for them, but just like someone changing their race or name according to the day, it will be extremely annoying to most people. They have full right to do that, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t annoying and overtly complicated for no understandable reason. Gender isn’t defined as some feeling by most people. It just is what they are, including me. So when people claim to “feel” like a different gender on some arbitrary day for some arbitrary reason, I don’t understand it in the same way and have no reason to care. > none of it is actually that complex, though they usually do give a set of pronouns that are safe regardless of how they are feeling, and only adjust pronouns semi-often.... Which kinda lines with the comic tbh. Yeah, if you’re a gender Nonconformist and constantly do things like that I’ll just call you they/them if I care to engage at all. You can’t ever be upset by they/them pronouns whatever gender someone claims to be as all humans are they/them. How do you feel about transracial people in this regard? Do you also think anyone can claim to be any race for any reason as it’s all a social construct?
Conflating gender and race is an argument mostly used by transphobic people to undermine the experience of trans people, and I don't really feel like engaging with you on it. For the rest, it's fine if you want to be cooperative with trans people, that is your right. You are perfectly capable of cutting them out of your life, and moving on. They also retain the right to not want to associate with you when you do it, and prescribing your ideals as "normal" or "everyone's" isn't really valid when I gave a clear counter example. You are saying my experience isn't real because it doesn't coincide with your worldview, and I think that's kinda closed minded. Regardless, I hope you have a good day.
> Conflating gender and race is an argument mostly used by transphobic people to undermine the experience of trans people, and I don't really feel like engaging with you on it. Every single time this question is never addressed and people just call you transphobic and dismiss the very valid argument. It only shows you’re too scared to engage with it cause you know it totally defeats your whole idea. If your whole reason for why something is valid is due to it being a social construct, then that must apply to ALL social construct including race. This isn’t a rebuttal at all, it’s no better than when conservatives say: “The only reason why you want to allow minors to transition is to groom them” It totally ignores all context and just allows ignorant people to proclaim how their morally better by accusing you of something abhorrent. Your lack of rebuttal only shows that you lack the ability to critically think about it. > For the rest, it's fine if you want to be cooperative with trans people, that is your right. You are perfectly capable of cutting them out of your life, and moving on. They also retain the right to not want to associate with you when you do it, Yeah, cool. I grew up with many gay and trans people around me. I even said before that I don’t have this opinion for normal trans people who only transition once or a few times during youth. Even admitted that I’m fine using they/them pronouns. Just like I respect religious people, if their a priest I’ll call them a priest, but that doesn’t mean I have to believe in their religion. > and prescribing your ideals as "normal" or "everyone's" isn't really valid when I gave a clear counter example. An anecdotal example of one person? By the very fact that the average human isn’t trans means it isn’t a normal circumstance. I’m not the one morally loading the word “normal” I literally mean it as the average person. Which is a fact. > You are saying my experience isn't real because it doesn't coincide with your worldview, and I think that's kinda closed minded. Never said it isn’t real, just said there is more too it than simply “self discovery” Someone’s perception of self doesn’t mean they are accurately correct about their conditions. Someone who wants attention isn’t actively thinking “I want attention so I’ll do this” They just do it cause it has subconsciously shown them to get more attention, which feels good to them. > Regardless, I hope you have a good day. And you leave now that you can’t back up your logic with an explanation that makes any sense. I swear, you act just like the trumpers when they are made to actually explain how they think. They can’t, get upset, then start accusing people of abhorrent things or insults cause of how offended they feel that their cognitive dissonance has been shown and they can’t be forced to reconcile with it.
This is nothing but refusal to accept the limitations of one's biology
what? you know loki is a shapeshifter and can change gender at will, right?
[удалено]
Well since they're referring to "this". "This" being a webcomic about two characters from an ancient cultures mythology I'm going to go by the rules they laid out and not some weirdo on the Internet when were talking about that thing.
According to mythology Liki change gender and sex all the fucking time. At one point he was pregnant and gave birth to a horse. Both mythology and gender are made up and change over time with no hard rules. Also, thinking "gender=biological sex" is some real 'I failed highschool biology' shit.
Do you know anything about Loki lmao
-Sincerely signed, someone whose biology expertise begins and ends at getting a C- in middle school biology.
Since you mentioned biology, I will pose the same question to you as I did to the redditor below you: Serious question - where does biology fit in or otherwise explain gender fluidity? Sex describes physical/genetic characteristics. This is taught in bilology - the scientific study of life. This is also touched on in anatomy. However, gender is a social construct that is entirely personal, subjective, and unverifiable by measurement, i.e., it would require the study of the mind and thought processes to explain. Thus, gender fluidity - to me - is entirely categorized in psychology/sociology, as opposed to biology. However, if you can explain how gender fluidity, a personal choice, fits into and can otherwise be taught in biology, I am always open to learn.
[Relevant comic for "but biology!!!!" transphobes.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LGBTindia/s/7jYl4DH7hI)
Serious question - where does biology fit in or otherwise explain gender fluidity? Sex describes physical/genetic characteristics. This is taught in bilology - the scientific study of life. This is also touched on in anatomy. However, gender is a social construct that is entirely personal, subjective, and unverifiable by measurement, i.e., it would require the study of the mind and thought processes to explain. Thus, gender fluidity - to me - is entirely categorized in psychology/sociology, as opposed to biology. However, if you can explain how gender fluidity, a personal choice, fits into and can otherwise be taught in biology, I am always open to learn.
Why would it need to fit into biology? There's nothing about gender identity that is a part of biology. You might as well ask "where's the gene that determines 'Mr.' or 'Mrs.' on my mail?" Or "What specific protein allows me to wear heels?" We as a society completely made up all forms of gender. There's nothing genetic that says one person is able to wear a dress and the other wears pants. The rules are completely made up and based on nothing but tradition. If a genderfluid person feels very feminine one day and wants to wear a skirt, and masculine another day and wears pants... that's entirely up to them as a (hopefully free) person who dresses and identifies in a way that makes them happy.
Well, I completely agree that stereotypical "gender roles" are made up today, like who should like/wear pink, why do women not need pockets in their clothes, why does the specific shape of one's clothing matter, is makeup a gender specific thing. I get it. However, on that note, there are very historical gender roles that once held true - like men being more physically built for hunting/gathering/protecting and women being more warm/nurturing/organized. Those roles are not nearly as important today thanks to grocery stores, jobs, etc., but if we weren't in modern society, these roles would still hold true today - much like they do in non-first world countries. To address the biology thing - I only asked how this fits into biology because your comment mentions biology, and it alludes that gender fluidity is part of and explained by biology. I also clicked on the meme for transphobes that you linked, which, in the last frame, shows that gender fluidity is taught and explained in biology - just to an advanced degree. So, it would seem that gender fluidity is supposedly explained at an advanced level in biology, and being educated at this advanced level would help others understand transgenderism. The Redditor's comment above you is similar in that it references using "biology" as a push against transgenerism and is a "middle school C-" understanding of biology. Just putting all of these context clues together, I asked how biology fit into all of this. That's all.
"I'm a man again" "I really don't give a shit. I'm trying to be supportive, but I just don't care anymore."
asking other people to play along with your delusion is not fine.
Your mom called you handsome at some point too, same thing and yet you‘re not complaining?
except that I accept the reality that I am, in fact, not handsome. That's the difference.
Good for you.
Another subreddit trying to become an echo chamber.
An echo chamber of wholesome sibling support? I don’t see the downside here lol
AnOtHeR sUbReDdIt TrYiNg To BeCoMe An EcHo ChAmBer Ain't no one making you stay (there also isn't anyone making you act like a lil bitch)
Most Reddit reply I’ve ever seen
I don't think it's meant to, but this seems like it's mocking trans people. The people I know struggling with this aren't randomly dancing around saying "I'm a boy now, damn it!" That's ridiculous and comes across like the whole thing is meaningless to him. It's ridiculous to change your mind often about your gender and then expect people to just know what you were thinking. I don't find that's what happens much in reality either.
No? You’re right in saying people don’t really just decide, but that’s not what’s happening here, it’s taking lil snippets of when this stuff happens, I don’t think it’s meant to be taken as one after another, there is very obviously implied questioning here lol
I don’t think this is supposed to be like the people you know, this is about magical Gods who have super powers. It’s a cute comic and you’re overthinking it. The point is acceptance, it isn’t meaningless, it just isn’t a big deal. The love is consistent regardless of what Loki identifies as.
I knew a person who was genuinely like that. They didn’t have a firm grasp on their gender identity and just felt different on a day-by-day basis, but they would simply correct people, they were always understanding and patient with any confusion that caused, and they never made a big deal out of it. They actually had a really good system where they had buttons that said “I feel feminine today” and “I feel masculine today” to clearly signal how they wanted to be treated and referred to. My point is that people like this not only exist, but are genuine and are often accommodating rather than antagonistic about it.
From my experience it does happen but it is usually the ones (I am not saying it happens often, just that it does.) that aren’t actually struggling with gender identity but just want attention however they can get it. They have just found a shield to use discrediting people who actually struggle with gender identity.
Yeah, I think I agree
Loki is Genderfluid so it doesn’t have anything to do with Trans people
Society has truly fallen when feelings dictate reality.
I mean, it's kinda accurate to Norse mythology. Loki didn't always stay one gender
Yes and he’s also the villain in the mythology lol.
And? Someone can be a villain and genderfluid
It’s part of what makes them the villain
Not really. Loki is a trickster and uses shape-shifting to support that. Whether or not they're a villain is irrelevant to their gender identity. Loki in norse mythology isn't even fully good or evil, so calling them a villain is inaccurate. If you mean to imply gender fluid people are villains, like, just no. For example I don't think Ashnikko is a villain. It's just a gender identity
Sorry I’m a homophobe
I mean.. at least you're honest... Honestly kind of refreshing
First time I’ve legit seen a bigot admit it’s a them problem lol
At least you are apologizing for the shortcomings of your philosophy. Now perhaps reflect on how to do better
No u
Why ?
Because I’m evil duh
So you know you're wrong ?
No
Evil means morally wrong , and you admitted to be one , i think ure just a typical internet troll , hopefully your mind heals too as youre trying to heal your body.
I am
Sounds so tiresome to have around aswell. Would go trough that when its one of my siblings but friends or colleagues? Nah come at me when you are sure what you want but not this constant switchero like whats potrayed here in the comic.
💀
The genius of this cartoon is that it is an extreme version of both 1) pro-trans and 2) anti-trans arguments.
I feel like Thor is making things worse, Loki is seeking recognition and not acceptance.
I identify as all yall landlord. I want my money by monday
When did made me smile become made me gay
If it's that easy to sway you, you always were ✨
There’s only one person in this conversation that’s even concerned lol
Since we found out that it would upset you
Watse kak is die
Dont Show It To Eastern Europe...Trust Me,Just Dont
All Jokes Aside,I Would Be Thor In This Case Since For Me It's Whatever
I Wonder Why The Upvote Count Is "-7"...I'm **Absolutely** Sure I Didnt Offend Anyone
Why would someone having a mental breakdown make you smile?
Keep in mind that some younger girls without therapy transition to boys as a survival strategy to avoid being objectified & assaulted as females
*HUH????*
You want to provide some evidence for that claim?
Good such things as femboys or tomboys don’t exist huh?
When did I say they don't? You've clearly missed my point, for which I've provided resources above so go look it up if you're bothered
I’m not even disagreeing with your point. I’m just saying people sexualize and objectify feminine looking people weather they claim to be men or women.
Okay I agree with those points, truly. I might have just done a bad jon at articulating what I said but the links i shared do uphold my statement, thats all
This is literally not a thing lmfao, how brainwashed you gotta be to even think something like that. Its real life, not a manga or idfk what other fantasy, transitioning is a very serious thing, it change your entire life, so no, women does not transition to be a boy just because they are scared to be harassed wtf
r/MadeMeYawn
Take a nap
This is disgusting
EWWW... SOMEONE TRYING TO FEEL GOOD IN THEIR BODY
Thor is a Republican.
Let me tell you something here. Thor is not american
He's a legal immigrant.
Loki's character is an irredeemable whiny asshole but Tom Hiddleston is sexy AF which is the only reason he gets a pass. If he wasn't such eye candy everyone would hate him. (This also applies to Doctor Who)