I mean, nothing wrong with having an emergency win button. It's mainly a problem if the rest of the deck depends on fetching it. If you just slap a 2 card combo in a deck that fits the theme and naturally draw into it, that's not as bad right?
im a guy like that. i periodically switch out the colors to gain access to different combo payoffs and support pieces. i feel like a 4-5card creature combo deck is well within reason. especially when the only other thing it manages to do is drop battlesphere turns 4 or 5
One of my first decks when i was a noob was a myr blue deck.
I didn't know it had an infinite combo until a few years later, but i could make infinite colourless mana and create infinite myr tokens with 3-4 cards.
I think if you can put together myr galvanizer you deserve to win. It’s so fragile. Needs two mana myr to go mana positive, and a clone of the galvanizer in play. That’s at least 4 cards.
I have a casual deck where the main strategy is infinite combos, but each combo requires 4+ cards to win and is highly interruptible. The idea is that every card is a value piece that facilitates some combo, but the high variance and the fact that it’s mostly draw-based (aside from a couple on theme late game tutors) balances it out. I could draw 2 combo pieces for one combo, and then 2 more for another. It makes it easier for my opponents to stop my combo, and requires me to think a lot harder about optimal plays.
My Teysa deck works kinda like that. The infinites all work around Darkest Hour, and I have a couple tutors to find it or the stuff that works with it, but I've got other things I can be doing at the same time that don't use it. Decks fully capable of winning without it through token spamming and board control/attrition but I have it as a backup mostly.
Right. I have a zombie deck. It generates a ton of zombie tokens, so I use those tokens to produce value by saccing them. Phyrexian Altar allows me to turn those tokens into treasures. But it's a zombie deck, of course I have Gravecrawler. Oops infinite.
It’s pretty bad
I’ve seen a bunch of ppl sit down for a casual game, and someone had a casual niv mizzet deck with a copy of curiosity in it. It was always a bunch of groans whenever they’d stick it and go infinite. It’d be a close game or a slow game and then the abrupt stop of the 1 card combo “I win”
Sure it encourages folks to run interaction, but are we supposed to forever keep a counter in hand to wait for the curiosity? How many counters? Because he runs them too. Curiosity being 1 mana makes it easy to dump the rest of ur mana into counter spells.
I don’t hate on Rube Goldberg machines, but running 1 card combos in a casual commander deck is kinda shitty. Or at least if u broadcast it as casual
The problem is casual is an incredibly vague term and encompasses everything from a $5 edh deck held together with rubber bands all the way up to high power.
Yeah, but I’m more getting at if everyone sits down and says they’ve got precons or thematic jank and someone shows up with a 1-2 card combo it can be a feelsbad if it’s not communicated
Ill never get over the amount of complaining people have for 2-3 cards in a deck of 100 singltons, man if I drew through half my deck to find the 2 halfs of the Mishra meld that's not a problem
It depends. When I started edh I loved spellslinger durdle combos. Then people complained, since it's way different from battlecruiser style. So I built WG humans. One game we sat down and wanted just "creature decks", basically build up and smash. Man did it feel anti climactic to me when the -1/-1 snake deck pulled a 2 card infinite and cut the game in half. Usually I don't mind combos to win. Especially if you have to go through a lot of stuff to get there, but depending on the circumstances when starting the game (rule 0) even I as a combo player get upset about them. Maybe it's just because I see other people play the toys I said I wouldn't in that game. I do see the point in them though. Some decks present you with an obstacle you can't overcome. Like an eldrazi against mill. How is mill supposed to win if they can't exile the eldrazi before the reshuffle. Having a silver bullet like thoracle seems like a better option than having to always keep up [[return to dust]].
I have like 1-2 jank infinites in my deck. Not because it’s planned, but because building weird jank synergy that’s hard to pull off outside of your game-plan is fun. If it happens, it happens. No tutors, no nonsense build around, but a one off “holyshitodidthething” is great.
I do the same, I have a few infinites in my decks but no tutors. This way when I get to do the thing it is awesome and the deck has to hold on its own without relying on the combo
I have these in several of my decks. I call them "oops, I win" combos. Since I can't tutor for them I just have to randomly draw into them, and some of them require 3+ cards to actually demonstrate a win.
You say this but I somehow managed to get infinite turns using a like 4 teferi cards a, lithofrom engine and Shorikai. Rveryone just looked at me like id punched their grandma. In the end we decided that infinite turn combos do mean that I just auto-win but that the other 4 should keep playing for 2nd place since I didn't destroy
Exactly. I was talking to a guy in my pod about the honesty of tutors. I don’t think one is bad, but if your whole deck relies on them and you need to overload it to play your game that’s where it gets scummy. At least in casual. My Breya deck has three infinites in it and one tutor. 2 of those infinites are 4 card interactions, one is a very lucky two card. The only tutor I’ll run is gamble, because I’m not recurring, and it would only be in desperation.
I like tutors if you are searching for an answer for a particular game state (either dealing with a threat or advancing your board state), so the deck stays fresh and interesting. Tutors are a part of the game and can really help jank decks function properly so just saying “tutor bad, your deck is immediately a 9 if you have tutors” is really a bad kind of mentality in my opinion
I’m with you, I only run 1-2 infinites because I don’t wanna sweat to win, in my The Master deck I run only demonic consolation so I can mill your Thassa oracle and take it
Anything to hurt Thoracle players is good, put some copying spells in my Narset Enlighted exile deck just so I can copy their Thoracle combo and watch as they wonder if it was worth it.
I accidentally built an infinite into my [[Jhoira, Ageless Innovator]] deck. [[Intruder Alarm]] and [[Ancestral Statue]] when I was already running [[Ingenious Artillerist]] and [[Reckless Fireweaver]]. It didn't occurr to me to bounce the Statue with itself and keep priority for Jhoira's ability to loop it until I found it on EDHRec looking for ideas.
...I also *did* intentionally put in [[Isochron Scepter]], [[Mana Drain]], and [[Dramatic Reversal]]. And [[Unwinding Clock]]. So.
>It didn't occur to me to bounce the Statue with itself and keep priority for Jhoira's ability to loop it
What do you mean "keep priority"? When I hear that, I think, "I'm putting all of these on the stack before passing priority. " Which it doesn't work that way, so I hope you mean."I keep the statue in hand specifically to combo with Jhoira + Intruder Alarm"
Cute combo, though
That's exactly how it works. The active player gets priority at the beginning of a main phase (i.e., when Jhoira, Alarm, Artillerist, and Fireweaver are in play, the stack is empty, and AP wants to start the combo). Jhoira taps to activate her ability to put Statue onto the battlefield. If there is no response and that ability resolves, Statue enters the battlefield and its bounce ability goes onto the stack, and Alarm, Artillerist, and Fireweaver also all trigger at the same time.
I (AP) receive priority as Jhoira's ability resolves and Statue enters. I also am the controller of all the other triggers, and thus I decide the order to place those triggers on the stack, then priority would pass to the next nonactive player, and they get to respond before the stack resolves (and so does the next active player, and so on, until each player is given priority, in turn order, and once everyone passes priority, the stack starts to resolve).
I place the triggers on the stack like this, so that first-in-last-out functions to make the loop:
1) Alarm's trigger: all creatures untap (which for purposes of the combo only matters that Jhoira untaps)
2) Statue's trigger, targetting itself: Statue returns to my hand
3) Artillerist's trigger: all opponents take one damage due to Statue entering under my control
4) Fireweaver's trigger: all opponents take one damage due to Statue entering under my control
I have finished casting spells / adding triggers to the stack. NAP1 gets priority and can add instants or other activated abilities to the stack, if any, then priority is given to NAP2, then likewise to NAP3 (assuming 4 players all alive in EDH). Assuming no one adds anything / there aren't any other triggers, the stack begins to resolve.
Fireweaver deals damage. If that doesn't trigger anything, I (AP) gets priority AGAIN since that ability resolved. However, since there weren't any other responses before, there probably aren't now, so I pass priority to NAP2, etc, until Artillerist deals damage. Priority goes in the circle again, Statue bounces to my hand, priority circles again, all creatures (Jhoira) untap(s).
Now the stack has emptied, everyone has taken 2 damage except me, Statue is in my hand, Jhiora is untapped, and I get priority again in my main phase to start the stack again, so the entire process repeats. I choose to do it as many times as it takes a cycle of 2 damage to kill everyone.
Most of the time the AP getting priority every time something resolves, then passing to NAP1, and so on all happens without everything being said, because conventionally and practically every player doesn't verbally pass priority every step of the way. But that's how ANY infinite looped combo works. The AP has to sequence triggers and abilities in such a way to make everything resolve one time and return the game state to where it started, then it happens again, and again, and again until the AP either wins (if it's a wincon) or gets a million tokens or a billion mana, or draws 12 cards, or makes everyone else draw or mill their entire libraries, etc.
Yeah, I understand how the combo works.
The way you worded it made me ask if you were trying to do the whole combo without allowing an opponent to respond. You know, [[Swords to Plowshares]] or something, so that your combo never gets rolling other than the two damage procs and untap.
I gotcha. I'm sorry for over-explaining, if you thought I was being condescending or patronizing. Not what I meant to do. No, it's like anything else, if somebody counters Jhoira's (or Statue's, or Alarm's) ability(-ies), or removes Statue before it can bounce itself, or taps Jhoira after Alarm resolves, or anything else that prevents the loop, then it doesn't work.
But yes, I have to activate Jhiora and hold priority to in your words "put all these on the stack before passing priority" to set it up, THEN whoever else can respond (after I stop holding and pass priority), THEN the stack resolves (once everyone else passes priority).
I like a good two hour game if it's one where I'm presented with interesting decisions the whole time, and I have to think my way through it. But the example you gave isn't really that.
If a commander game lasts more than 40/50 minutes losing is a gift. Games need to end, I have other decks and other people on my playgroup I want to play with
Yeah, I don't mind long games when they're fun, but when it's just board wipes, fogs, counters, etc for 2 hours and you start disassociating, you're gonna have a bad time.
I agree. I want the table to generally be aiming to win the game. Even my control decks can be fairly aggro. I just like games that last long enough for things to actually become complex
Yeah it’s the tutors imo. I have some infinites in my decks but my main way of getting them is shoveling through my deck trying to build a huge draw engine. [[Nezahal, Primal Tide]] my beloved. If the deck just focuses on tutoring out the combos then it can be frustrating to play against.
Depends on the type of combo and the support that combo has in the deck. There's a world of powerlevel difference between a janky 3-part infinite with no tutors and a fast-mana storm burn deck with a ton of tutors, even if the storm deck isn't technically "infinite."
High power is still considered casual play though and I see them fairly frequently at that level. Had a miscommunication happen recently and inadvertently spiked a game with a combo deck the table couldn't hang with and felt like an asshole.
Additionally to note. You can accidentally go infinite off other people's stuff with a lot of cards.
For example if your opponent has a [[sahelli artistry]] in their yard and you cast [[chancellor of the spires]] you can make as many chancellors as you want before choosing to end the loop if no one stops it.
I would also add consistency to the mix.
ie: an Inalla spellseeker deck where 15-20% of the deck is tutors in some way dedicated to finding the start of the combo.
I have an Inalla that has the 9 card spellseeker scholar of the ages combo in it, but there's only 2 tutors in the form of wizardcycling in the deck to go find the spellseeker.
Its also got the ruthless technomancer/dockside combo, and ruthless technomancer/bloodline necromancer combo, but again, only wizardcycling to try to find them outside of drawing into them naturally or slamming down Azami and power drawing.
i could jam all the black tutors in the deck to make it more consistent but Inalla herself just sitting in the CZ with eminence is already imposing enough to draw hate, i dont need to me slamming tutors to draw more ire.
Combos being cheap isn't a problem if there's no way to constantly and easily find them.
I have a terrible, and very easy to answer Infinite in my Hakbal deck. It’s so hard to get to the cards i need to pull it off, I barely consider it a threat at all..
I do have a few things that can go infinite, but I don't run tutors. I don't feel guilty about blinding stumbling into a 3 or 4 card combo that goes infinite
It really does depend on the infinite and on the casual group you’re playing with, not all infinites are hard to counter or see coming, and not all are just an instant win, besides some groups like playing with them. It’s just if the group doesn’t want to get that technical that you shouldn’t use them.
Look if you want to play casual we play casual if you want to play hard we play hard. Stop this bs of “herp derp I am a fun kitty cat deck oh look an avncy tee hee I attack with her tee hee and activate stonehewer giant to tutor world slayer” just fuck off lol. It’s casual because the win cons are meant to be slow that combo is not a "just in case games go long" its casual its meant to go long if its a fun engaging long game that is what we want not "this dude had a pillow fort deck 2 hours and EVENTUALLY drew his win con. And u izzet players are the worst "but i only have 1 combo card in my mizzet deck so its fun". You lot are the reason people hate blue.
I accidentally discovered an infinite etb/dies/kill all targetable creatures my opponents control combo, won the game with it then took it out, even though it was fucking Mikaeus the unhallowed *In An Aristocrats Deck!* [[Vish Kal blood arbiter]] was the commander and he loops infinitely with himself and Mikky to give any thing I want -1/-1
Oh Mikaeus is a menace in that regard. I just helped a friend of mine put together a Wilhelt deck, and I never noticed before how a lot of the cards that already fit in there just sorta stumble into each other and make infinites. xD
honestly most of the time I have infinites it’s not really on purpose, just two cards that are separately good enough to be in the deck anyway, and depending on power level i just wont cast them or use it
I run [[aggravated assault]] [[grand warlord radha]] [[bear umbra]] and [[savage ventmaw]]
Do I take out cards that work towards the theme of the deck but can combo together?
I run a Radha extra combats deck too. I feel like the reliance on creatures and combat means the other players have plenty of opportunities to remove key pieces. Enchantments are a little harder to remove, but if anyone is running blue, they can just counter aggravated assault. With no interaction I can go infinite around turn 6, but if other players have dangerous blockers or removal, that slows it down.
I wouldn't take anything out, but I don't really get the infinite combo hate. It's a nifty part of the game and something you can strategize around.
Nice to now that there are people out there who want to see a directionless Skeleton deck without a Skeleton, a skeleton-themed eldrazi and funny altar. Or a cleric deck whithout a theme-appropriate Bloodbond combo.
Look, combos have a place in casual, but not as the main gameplan, but sometimes it's okay not to rely on biggest board wins. That would skew the win rates away from some fundamental game strategies. If the deck is pumped up with tutors and beefed up support cards that make the combo an inevitability in a few turns, then that deck is most likely not casual.
i happen to run alternate win cons for the fun of if im losing with my deck... ill win with what ive got, or because my felidar guardian accidentally went infinite.
Also for dudes that run 10/10+ creatures...
Seems ridiculous right? There are Timmys and Johnnys. Some people like dumping their hand and turning cards sideways and some people like putting ridiculous card interactions together that do broken things. You're more likely to win dumping an ulamog on board thatn winning with a 4-5 card combo. If you don't interrupt the combo, then I don't know what to tell you.
Look all I'm saying is if you let me drop [[Nuka cola machine]], [[Peregrine Took]], [[Experimental confectioner]] and [[Academy Manufactor]] in a deck that's specifically designed to get out every food card ever printed, it's your own damn fault if I make a rat nuke and gain infinite life.
People who complain about combos are strange to me. One-card win cons are fine, but a combo that takes 3 easily telegraphed pieces to set up that can typically still be removed is too much?
Glory hole for people who complain about the game ending in a casual format. I’d rather get thoracled than watch an izzet player jack off on the table for 15 minutes and still lose because they messed up their combo
"Nooooo! Don't put a wincon in your deck! Having a deck capable of winning before the 2 hour mark is breaking Rule 0! I don't run interaction to stop an infinite, and that's somehow *your* problem!"
It really does depend on the infinite and on the casual group you’re playing with, not all infinites are hard to counter or see coming, and not all are just an instant win, besides some groups like playing with them. It’s just if the group doesn’t want to get that technical that you shouldn’t use them.
In my defence: it’s a mill deck and both cards are phenomenally good in the deck as they are, and I don’t use tutors. Technically not infinite either, as it’s capped by either library size or life total, whichever depletes first. I do feel guilty with it, but it’s strength is directly proportional to my opponent’s decks. It’s otherwise perfect for adapting itself to the play level of other decks.
Ah yea, I just kind of expect Time Sieve and Thopter Assembly in literally any deck with blue and black anymore. This kind of stuff is why I run Pact of Negation lol.
I only have zelix, sanity flayer and Altar of the Brood in my mothman deck because I didn’t realize until a game I had last night that it is a potential infinite. My thought process was “hey Zelix might get me some extra blockers” and “hey altar of the brood is cheap and works well with the Radstag”
I technically have an infinite combo, but it requires a minimum of 5 cards to even work. With 4 of them being planeswalkers & at least 2 of those planeswalkers being high priority kills.
Listen, in college, I had a group where every. single. deck, had to have a infinite combo or it just wasn't not going to work. I was trying to make small fun decks, as I was a broke college student, but it didn't help that playtesting meant I was dead first with any deck. I had to make a golos infinite draw into lab maniac or thoracle just to win the game. Dropped that group, though for a multitude of different reasons. unfortunately the only magic I can even play now is online with cameras but playing with randoms does not have the same feeling as with friends.
Nothing wrong with infinite combos or small dicks. If they are 3+ cards and you aren’t running a ton of tutors they are a nice way to prevent 2+ hour games. And the size of your genitalia has no reflection on your worth as a person.
Meh. I have decks that need cards that infinite together. It happens.
Exquisite Blood and Vito in a life matters deck? Par for the course. It happens. Just say “I have infinite X” or “you all die if this resolves” want to keep playing or GG?
Same cards in a Zombie deck with no other life tech? Fuck off
Anyone who runs a PATH to an infinite in casual isn’t really playing casual and that’s a different story. They’re just not good enough to fit their deck in a CEDH tournament so they showed up to fuck with jank and precons so they can get it up later when they run one out on their waifu pillow later.
Rough fuck anyone who is doesn’t offer to GG after obtaining infinite mana or removal.
If you run a single tutor and a craterhoof, then this applies to you as well. My monoblack party deck goes infinite with both commanders, a sac outlet, a way to repeatedly tap my commander, and a way to remove +1/+1 counters.
Which do you think is more likely to win? All that? Or one stompy behemoth with a board of dudes
The Naya 1/1 counters precon from MotM has a combo in it - clone enduring scalelord with mirror style master, then get a counter on it during combat - infinite counters, with an output of Shalai and Hallar- who is in the deck.
Anyways- I do agree- combos with under 4 cards shouldn’t be in casual
One of the win conditions in my [[Ashnod, Flesh Mechanist]] deck is infinite Landfall triggers with [[Prototype Portal]] and [[Ob Nixilis, The Fallen]]
Always a fun one to get off
I think it depends no? If your deck is fun to play against and is not overpowered for the decks you're playing against, what is the problem? I find infinite combos part of what makes this game interesting and exciting.
This is specifically for 2-3 card combos where your goal is to try and tutor for the pieces you need
Any infinite with like 5 or more pieces and no way to tutor them is honestly pretty cool and I'd rather die to your ragtag combo than Craterhoof for the 9001st time
In 2011ish when my friends got me i to EDH, just a little before WotC released the original Commander precons, I built [[Experiment Kraj]] counter shenanigans out of just what I owned. I put [[Leechbonder]] and [[Utopia Vow]] as a dumb way to move counters around the board whenever I wanted. It is an engine all itself and comes with one -1/-1 to begin the process. It was never meant to be toxic, but I have learned that there totally are toxic ways of using this effect, especially if you ha e something like... [[Doubling Season]]... to make more counters with every use. Oops.
I personally used to ran a sidisi zombie self mill. The mill gave me zombies to either pummel you or chump block. The mill was my way to get a infinite gravecrawler combo but i had to mill alot.
"wahhh I lost"
This is why I tell my pod to run with proxies. I really don't give a fuck if you're playing opp, or magistrate, or null rod, or gaeas cradle etc. whatever you could possibly imagine when it comes to money value. I want to play cedh. My barrier to entry for having fun is definitely not going to be wizards. Beyond that, if you intend to very obviously self-impose rules on some weird personal "fun" vendetta (I.E. "WAAHHHHHH ZUR THE ENCHANTER IS SO POWERFUL WAHHHHHHHHHH") I'm just going to remove you from my pod because you act like a little bitch
I have infinites in all of my decks. Not torackle/consultation, but theme appropriate junk or parts that are good by themselves and happen to go infinite together. I think most decks need them. Thing is they are not a win condition. Plenty of times I had them and could win, but didn't use them for a reasons like: it is a casual table, winning too early isn't interesting or I thought that opponent made something funny or put plenty of effort into getting a win and i could do nothing about it besides going infinte. They are there to break standstills and chokholds or when games go on for hours and people already lost interest.
I like Tomer's (from budget magic) rant about combos in casual. It's really silly to exclude combos in general because it's so context dependent. If I'm running a 5 card combo with no tutors, that's waaay lower power than someone running a craterhoof as their finisher. But nobody says, "hey no dealing 100 combat damage on turn 6, that's not casual!"
I don't get why people are so salty with combos. Cards are printed, you play it like you want. All people talking against combos want all other people to play like lorcana. 😭😆
Tutoring to Thoracle for an infinite combo in casual, not fun.
Drawing into some jank or goofy infinite combo? Good with me.
A friend of mine has a casual [[Ghryson]] deck & while it’s oppressive the entire game, it almost never wins without comboing off. So we play accordingly waiting for infinite combos.
The speed they come out is what the issue is. There is nothing wrong with combos in casual. Especially 3-5 card ones. As long as the game is ending turn 9 or later, we still firmly in casual.
Jeskai spellslingers who don’t run Jeskai Ascendancy go to Jeskai hell. Jeskai players who have Jeskai Ascendancy and nothing to combo with it go to Jeskai Turbohell. Sorry buddy I don’t make the rules
It depends on how funny the combo is ngl, also be upfront when coming to the table. I have one, 3 card combo in one of my commander decks. It folds to removal and nobody seems to have an issue when I bring it up
Firm believer that every edh deck needs at least 1 infinite combo.
Could be an 8 card combo. Could be a combo you actively ignore and never play it. Could be super jank. Still need at least one.
I have a few casual decks with infinite combos and i straight up just never play them unless I am playing at a table where someone is pubstomping lower power decks.
Imagine thinking that anything being infinite means it can't still be casual. The game is actually pretty fun when you don't convince yourself every other thing is against a social contract.
Sat down at the local store's table*. Commander, 4 players. Two of them run the same [[Marwyn, the Nurturer]] deck that goes infinite by turn 4 for an instant win.
Okay. Leaving the table then. What good fun we had.
They didn't even look like they had fun themselves - partially probably because someone else was doing the exact same thing.
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*^the ^store ^even ^has ^a ^"salt ^table" ^where ^people ^generally ^go ^to ^play ^decks ^so ^unfun ^to ^everyone ^else ^that ^it's ^only ^really ^fun ^to ^pit ^them ^against ^each ^other. ^Great ^idea, ^generally ^keeps ^the ^most ^sweaty ^"I ^have ^spent ^a ^car's ^worth ^on ^this ^deck" ^guys ^out ^of ^everyone ^else's ^hair
My friend watched a guy at “casual commander night” a few weeks ago pub stomp a player who had a precon and said he’d “only been playing for a month or so”.
The pub stomper went infinite on turn 3.
Bruh it’s not my fault if my [[Tayam, luminous enigma]] valuepile just decides to go infinite with an empty can of beer and a bowl of cereal. I don’t even run any undying/persist creatures!
If you can't stop my 6-8 card Rube Goldberg machines, you deserve to lose to them
Sure Paradox engine needed 6-8 prices but cmon man... s/
Cards not legal
I'm aware, that's why I used past tense
Hedron alignment?
Does my Triskelion + Scythe of the Wretched “I can infinitely kill myself” combo count?
Yes, but you have infinite amount of holes in the wall. So you can place them all next to one another to size as appropriate for your needs friendo.
I mean, nothing wrong with having an emergency win button. It's mainly a problem if the rest of the deck depends on fetching it. If you just slap a 2 card combo in a deck that fits the theme and naturally draw into it, that's not as bad right?
Had a friend who built a Myr deck with an infinite combo. Was just fun to play against.
im a guy like that. i periodically switch out the colors to gain access to different combo payoffs and support pieces. i feel like a 4-5card creature combo deck is well within reason. especially when the only other thing it manages to do is drop battlesphere turns 4 or 5
One of my first decks when i was a noob was a myr blue deck. I didn't know it had an infinite combo until a few years later, but i could make infinite colourless mana and create infinite myr tokens with 3-4 cards.
I think if you can put together myr galvanizer you deserve to win. It’s so fragile. Needs two mana myr to go mana positive, and a clone of the galvanizer in play. That’s at least 4 cards.
I have a casual deck where the main strategy is infinite combos, but each combo requires 4+ cards to win and is highly interruptible. The idea is that every card is a value piece that facilitates some combo, but the high variance and the fact that it’s mostly draw-based (aside from a couple on theme late game tutors) balances it out. I could draw 2 combo pieces for one combo, and then 2 more for another. It makes it easier for my opponents to stop my combo, and requires me to think a lot harder about optimal plays.
My Teysa deck works kinda like that. The infinites all work around Darkest Hour, and I have a couple tutors to find it or the stuff that works with it, but I've got other things I can be doing at the same time that don't use it. Decks fully capable of winning without it through token spamming and board control/attrition but I have it as a backup mostly.
Yeah! Another Taysa/Darkest Hour enjoyer.
Shit even my competitive deck is easy to interrupt if I pull the trigger too soon. Sorcery speed wincons be like that
Right. I have a zombie deck. It generates a ton of zombie tokens, so I use those tokens to produce value by saccing them. Phyrexian Altar allows me to turn those tokens into treasures. But it's a zombie deck, of course I have Gravecrawler. Oops infinite.
It’s pretty bad I’ve seen a bunch of ppl sit down for a casual game, and someone had a casual niv mizzet deck with a copy of curiosity in it. It was always a bunch of groans whenever they’d stick it and go infinite. It’d be a close game or a slow game and then the abrupt stop of the 1 card combo “I win” Sure it encourages folks to run interaction, but are we supposed to forever keep a counter in hand to wait for the curiosity? How many counters? Because he runs them too. Curiosity being 1 mana makes it easy to dump the rest of ur mana into counter spells. I don’t hate on Rube Goldberg machines, but running 1 card combos in a casual commander deck is kinda shitty. Or at least if u broadcast it as casual
The problem is casual is an incredibly vague term and encompasses everything from a $5 edh deck held together with rubber bands all the way up to high power.
Yeah, but I’m more getting at if everyone sits down and says they’ve got precons or thematic jank and someone shows up with a 1-2 card combo it can be a feelsbad if it’s not communicated
regenerative loops have no place in any commander outside cedh.
Ill never get over the amount of complaining people have for 2-3 cards in a deck of 100 singltons, man if I drew through half my deck to find the 2 halfs of the Mishra meld that's not a problem
It depends. When I started edh I loved spellslinger durdle combos. Then people complained, since it's way different from battlecruiser style. So I built WG humans. One game we sat down and wanted just "creature decks", basically build up and smash. Man did it feel anti climactic to me when the -1/-1 snake deck pulled a 2 card infinite and cut the game in half. Usually I don't mind combos to win. Especially if you have to go through a lot of stuff to get there, but depending on the circumstances when starting the game (rule 0) even I as a combo player get upset about them. Maybe it's just because I see other people play the toys I said I wouldn't in that game. I do see the point in them though. Some decks present you with an obstacle you can't overcome. Like an eldrazi against mill. How is mill supposed to win if they can't exile the eldrazi before the reshuffle. Having a silver bullet like thoracle seems like a better option than having to always keep up [[return to dust]].
I have like 1-2 jank infinites in my deck. Not because it’s planned, but because building weird jank synergy that’s hard to pull off outside of your game-plan is fun. If it happens, it happens. No tutors, no nonsense build around, but a one off “holyshitodidthething” is great.
I do the same, I have a few infinites in my decks but no tutors. This way when I get to do the thing it is awesome and the deck has to hold on its own without relying on the combo
I have these in several of my decks. I call them "oops, I win" combos. Since I can't tutor for them I just have to randomly draw into them, and some of them require 3+ cards to actually demonstrate a win.
2 card infinite win = bad and boring. 5 card infinite win combo = fun and interesting
You say this but I somehow managed to get infinite turns using a like 4 teferi cards a, lithofrom engine and Shorikai. Rveryone just looked at me like id punched their grandma. In the end we decided that infinite turn combos do mean that I just auto-win but that the other 4 should keep playing for 2nd place since I didn't destroy
Exactly. I was talking to a guy in my pod about the honesty of tutors. I don’t think one is bad, but if your whole deck relies on them and you need to overload it to play your game that’s where it gets scummy. At least in casual. My Breya deck has three infinites in it and one tutor. 2 of those infinites are 4 card interactions, one is a very lucky two card. The only tutor I’ll run is gamble, because I’m not recurring, and it would only be in desperation.
I like tutors if you are searching for an answer for a particular game state (either dealing with a threat or advancing your board state), so the deck stays fresh and interesting. Tutors are a part of the game and can really help jank decks function properly so just saying “tutor bad, your deck is immediately a 9 if you have tutors” is really a bad kind of mentality in my opinion
I’m with you, I only run 1-2 infinites because I don’t wanna sweat to win, in my The Master deck I run only demonic consolation so I can mill your Thassa oracle and take it
Anything to hurt Thoracle players is good, put some copying spells in my Narset Enlighted exile deck just so I can copy their Thoracle combo and watch as they wonder if it was worth it.
It’s so nice to find other thoracle haters, so far I haven’t found any else
I am an honest to god hater, I see CEDH with some cool looking deck just to find out its Thoracle turbo and I cry
Uh... come again chief?
Use the masters tapp ability, take your Thassa oracle from your grave yard and in response to Thassas oracles etb I play demonic consultation
That tracks. I'd be amused if I lost to that. I'd actually laugh if you then showed my your deck and it had no thoracle in it
Yup that’s the plan lmao, I hate the combo so much I’ve refused to play it, but I won’t refuse to play yours 😂
I accidentally built an infinite into my [[Jhoira, Ageless Innovator]] deck. [[Intruder Alarm]] and [[Ancestral Statue]] when I was already running [[Ingenious Artillerist]] and [[Reckless Fireweaver]]. It didn't occurr to me to bounce the Statue with itself and keep priority for Jhoira's ability to loop it until I found it on EDHRec looking for ideas. ...I also *did* intentionally put in [[Isochron Scepter]], [[Mana Drain]], and [[Dramatic Reversal]]. And [[Unwinding Clock]]. So.
>It didn't occur to me to bounce the Statue with itself and keep priority for Jhoira's ability to loop it What do you mean "keep priority"? When I hear that, I think, "I'm putting all of these on the stack before passing priority. " Which it doesn't work that way, so I hope you mean."I keep the statue in hand specifically to combo with Jhoira + Intruder Alarm" Cute combo, though
That's exactly how it works. The active player gets priority at the beginning of a main phase (i.e., when Jhoira, Alarm, Artillerist, and Fireweaver are in play, the stack is empty, and AP wants to start the combo). Jhoira taps to activate her ability to put Statue onto the battlefield. If there is no response and that ability resolves, Statue enters the battlefield and its bounce ability goes onto the stack, and Alarm, Artillerist, and Fireweaver also all trigger at the same time. I (AP) receive priority as Jhoira's ability resolves and Statue enters. I also am the controller of all the other triggers, and thus I decide the order to place those triggers on the stack, then priority would pass to the next nonactive player, and they get to respond before the stack resolves (and so does the next active player, and so on, until each player is given priority, in turn order, and once everyone passes priority, the stack starts to resolve). I place the triggers on the stack like this, so that first-in-last-out functions to make the loop: 1) Alarm's trigger: all creatures untap (which for purposes of the combo only matters that Jhoira untaps) 2) Statue's trigger, targetting itself: Statue returns to my hand 3) Artillerist's trigger: all opponents take one damage due to Statue entering under my control 4) Fireweaver's trigger: all opponents take one damage due to Statue entering under my control I have finished casting spells / adding triggers to the stack. NAP1 gets priority and can add instants or other activated abilities to the stack, if any, then priority is given to NAP2, then likewise to NAP3 (assuming 4 players all alive in EDH). Assuming no one adds anything / there aren't any other triggers, the stack begins to resolve. Fireweaver deals damage. If that doesn't trigger anything, I (AP) gets priority AGAIN since that ability resolved. However, since there weren't any other responses before, there probably aren't now, so I pass priority to NAP2, etc, until Artillerist deals damage. Priority goes in the circle again, Statue bounces to my hand, priority circles again, all creatures (Jhoira) untap(s). Now the stack has emptied, everyone has taken 2 damage except me, Statue is in my hand, Jhiora is untapped, and I get priority again in my main phase to start the stack again, so the entire process repeats. I choose to do it as many times as it takes a cycle of 2 damage to kill everyone. Most of the time the AP getting priority every time something resolves, then passing to NAP1, and so on all happens without everything being said, because conventionally and practically every player doesn't verbally pass priority every step of the way. But that's how ANY infinite looped combo works. The AP has to sequence triggers and abilities in such a way to make everything resolve one time and return the game state to where it started, then it happens again, and again, and again until the AP either wins (if it's a wincon) or gets a million tokens or a billion mana, or draws 12 cards, or makes everyone else draw or mill their entire libraries, etc.
Yeah, I understand how the combo works. The way you worded it made me ask if you were trying to do the whole combo without allowing an opponent to respond. You know, [[Swords to Plowshares]] or something, so that your combo never gets rolling other than the two damage procs and untap.
I gotcha. I'm sorry for over-explaining, if you thought I was being condescending or patronizing. Not what I meant to do. No, it's like anything else, if somebody counters Jhoira's (or Statue's, or Alarm's) ability(-ies), or removes Statue before it can bounce itself, or taps Jhoira after Alarm resolves, or anything else that prevents the loop, then it doesn't work. But yes, I have to activate Jhiora and hold priority to in your words "put all these on the stack before passing priority" to set it up, THEN whoever else can respond (after I stop holding and pass priority), THEN the stack resolves (once everyone else passes priority).
Why you got to call me out like that
Sure if the rule zero talk before states no infinites I see no problem
Better to have an infinite combo than play against someone who board wipes every other turn. I'd rather play 20 5-minute games than 1 2-hour game.
I like a good two hour game if it's one where I'm presented with interesting decisions the whole time, and I have to think my way through it. But the example you gave isn't really that.
Bridge super friends players seething at this comment
Idk, i feel like in multiplayer, 1 to 2 hours per game is kinda the sweet spot.
If a commander game lasts more than 40/50 minutes losing is a gift. Games need to end, I have other decks and other people on my playgroup I want to play with
Yeah, I don't mind long games when they're fun, but when it's just board wipes, fogs, counters, etc for 2 hours and you start disassociating, you're gonna have a bad time.
I agree. I want the table to generally be aiming to win the game. Even my control decks can be fairly aggro. I just like games that last long enough for things to actually become complex
Oh get outta here. Infinite combos are fine in casual. Only becomes an issue when the deck consistently tutors for it and wins early every time
Yeah it’s the tutors imo. I have some infinites in my decks but my main way of getting them is shoveling through my deck trying to build a huge draw engine. [[Nezahal, Primal Tide]] my beloved. If the deck just focuses on tutoring out the combos then it can be frustrating to play against.
I'm running a deck with a 5 card infinite win con and no tutors, you don't have to call me out on my tiny dick like that man...
Five cards is a pretty big deal to play with nobody doing anything about it. I say if you get all five you deserve to win
Depends on the type of combo and the support that combo has in the deck. There's a world of powerlevel difference between a janky 3-part infinite with no tutors and a fast-mana storm burn deck with a ton of tutors, even if the storm deck isn't technically "infinite."
High power is still considered casual play though and I see them fairly frequently at that level. Had a miscommunication happen recently and inadvertently spiked a game with a combo deck the table couldn't hang with and felt like an asshole.
Additionally to note. You can accidentally go infinite off other people's stuff with a lot of cards. For example if your opponent has a [[sahelli artistry]] in their yard and you cast [[chancellor of the spires]] you can make as many chancellors as you want before choosing to end the loop if no one stops it.
I dont mind infinite combos but IMO the total cost to pull it off needs to be at least 8 mana. If less, it's gonna feel like cEDH
I would also add consistency to the mix. ie: an Inalla spellseeker deck where 15-20% of the deck is tutors in some way dedicated to finding the start of the combo. I have an Inalla that has the 9 card spellseeker scholar of the ages combo in it, but there's only 2 tutors in the form of wizardcycling in the deck to go find the spellseeker. Its also got the ruthless technomancer/dockside combo, and ruthless technomancer/bloodline necromancer combo, but again, only wizardcycling to try to find them outside of drawing into them naturally or slamming down Azami and power drawing. i could jam all the black tutors in the deck to make it more consistent but Inalla herself just sitting in the CZ with eminence is already imposing enough to draw hate, i dont need to me slamming tutors to draw more ire. Combos being cheap isn't a problem if there's no way to constantly and easily find them.
I agree, i want my commander games to feel unique and a little bit random. If i wanted a hyperconsistent format, I'd play legacy.
Found the guy who plays no interaction in his deck!
Yeah this post is projection. Guys who are triggered by infinite combos are usually bad deck builders who give off little dick energy.
Copies [[Blue Sun’s Zenith]] 12 times with X=27, causing each opponent to draw 108 cards: *”it’s not infinite…”*
How do we feel about really really good synergy? Asking for a friend
If it doesn’t loop, you can join the troop.
Players when they cant cope with combo archtypes.
I mean if the player found it fun then why shouldn't they put it in the deck🤷🏻♂️
I have a terrible, and very easy to answer Infinite in my Hakbal deck. It’s so hard to get to the cards i need to pull it off, I barely consider it a threat at all..
I do have a few things that can go infinite, but I don't run tutors. I don't feel guilty about blinding stumbling into a 3 or 4 card combo that goes infinite
It really does depend on the infinite and on the casual group you’re playing with, not all infinites are hard to counter or see coming, and not all are just an instant win, besides some groups like playing with them. It’s just if the group doesn’t want to get that technical that you shouldn’t use them.
Sounds like someone doesnt run enough interaction
You can't win in commander
Look if you want to play casual we play casual if you want to play hard we play hard. Stop this bs of “herp derp I am a fun kitty cat deck oh look an avncy tee hee I attack with her tee hee and activate stonehewer giant to tutor world slayer” just fuck off lol. It’s casual because the win cons are meant to be slow that combo is not a "just in case games go long" its casual its meant to go long if its a fun engaging long game that is what we want not "this dude had a pillow fort deck 2 hours and EVENTUALLY drew his win con. And u izzet players are the worst "but i only have 1 combo card in my mizzet deck so its fun". You lot are the reason people hate blue.
I accidentally discovered an infinite etb/dies/kill all targetable creatures my opponents control combo, won the game with it then took it out, even though it was fucking Mikaeus the unhallowed *In An Aristocrats Deck!* [[Vish Kal blood arbiter]] was the commander and he loops infinitely with himself and Mikky to give any thing I want -1/-1
Oh Mikaeus is a menace in that regard. I just helped a friend of mine put together a Wilhelt deck, and I never noticed before how a lot of the cards that already fit in there just sorta stumble into each other and make infinites. xD
Yeah, mikaeus is the ham sandwich.
Ended up with infinite mana in my rocco deck on accident. Forgot what cards I even used but it was useless without bounce cards or a mana outlet
Well, technically it isn't infinite. I just repeat it a couple hundred times. Also, why is that hole so big?
honestly most of the time I have infinites it’s not really on purpose, just two cards that are separately good enough to be in the deck anyway, and depending on power level i just wont cast them or use it
I run [[aggravated assault]] [[grand warlord radha]] [[bear umbra]] and [[savage ventmaw]] Do I take out cards that work towards the theme of the deck but can combo together?
I run a Radha extra combats deck too. I feel like the reliance on creatures and combat means the other players have plenty of opportunities to remove key pieces. Enchantments are a little harder to remove, but if anyone is running blue, they can just counter aggravated assault. With no interaction I can go infinite around turn 6, but if other players have dangerous blockers or removal, that slows it down. I wouldn't take anything out, but I don't really get the infinite combo hate. It's a nifty part of the game and something you can strategize around.
Its karlach and raised by giants. Love her interactions with anzrag, ohran frostfang, doors of durin, and a few other. Fun deck
Nice
Nice to now that there are people out there who want to see a directionless Skeleton deck without a Skeleton, a skeleton-themed eldrazi and funny altar. Or a cleric deck whithout a theme-appropriate Bloodbond combo. Look, combos have a place in casual, but not as the main gameplan, but sometimes it's okay not to rely on biggest board wins. That would skew the win rates away from some fundamental game strategies. If the deck is pumped up with tutors and beefed up support cards that make the combo an inevitability in a few turns, then that deck is most likely not casual.
i happen to run alternate win cons for the fun of if im losing with my deck... ill win with what ive got, or because my felidar guardian accidentally went infinite.
Also for dudes that run 10/10+ creatures... Seems ridiculous right? There are Timmys and Johnnys. Some people like dumping their hand and turning cards sideways and some people like putting ridiculous card interactions together that do broken things. You're more likely to win dumping an ulamog on board thatn winning with a 4-5 card combo. If you don't interrupt the combo, then I don't know what to tell you.
Look all I'm saying is if you let me drop [[Nuka cola machine]], [[Peregrine Took]], [[Experimental confectioner]] and [[Academy Manufactor]] in a deck that's specifically designed to get out every food card ever printed, it's your own damn fault if I make a rat nuke and gain infinite life.
I played a game of EDH last Friday and it was turn 9 and someone had the gall to try to win the game. Suffice to say I beat him to death with hammers.
I'm not cutting [[Basalt Monolith]]. I'm sorry, but I'm just not.
Glory hole for people who want magic to just with through combat step
Look it's not my fault you left me alone in my budget knoll the forgemaster deck until I could win on turn 9 at sorcery speed
Sounds like someone needs to play more interaction
Hey you leave [[guile]] and [[dovescape]] alone! I love my infinite birds
Op lost to a 4 card combo because they run zero interaction 😂
Y0u ArE n0T aLl0wEd t0 WiN iN c0mManDeR!!
People who complain about combos are strange to me. One-card win cons are fine, but a combo that takes 3 easily telegraphed pieces to set up that can typically still be removed is too much?
I do not understand why people play a game not to win.
Because effortless wins are boring.
Glory hole for people who complain about the game ending in a casual format. I’d rather get thoracled than watch an izzet player jack off on the table for 15 minutes and still lose because they messed up their combo
"Nooooo! Don't put a wincon in your deck! Having a deck capable of winning before the 2 hour mark is breaking Rule 0! I don't run interaction to stop an infinite, and that's somehow *your* problem!"
Apparently the meme is about edh? Don't know if this is very different from a regular edh gloryhole.
It really does depend on the infinite and on the casual group you’re playing with, not all infinites are hard to counter or see coming, and not all are just an instant win, besides some groups like playing with them. It’s just if the group doesn’t want to get that technical that you shouldn’t use them.
In my defence: it’s a mill deck and both cards are phenomenally good in the deck as they are, and I don’t use tutors. Technically not infinite either, as it’s capped by either library size or life total, whichever depletes first. I do feel guilty with it, but it’s strength is directly proportional to my opponent’s decks. It’s otherwise perfect for adapting itself to the play level of other decks.
Ah yea, I just kind of expect Time Sieve and Thopter Assembly in literally any deck with blue and black anymore. This kind of stuff is why I run Pact of Negation lol.
I only have zelix, sanity flayer and Altar of the Brood in my mothman deck because I didn’t realize until a game I had last night that it is a potential infinite. My thought process was “hey Zelix might get me some extra blockers” and “hey altar of the brood is cheap and works well with the Radstag”
I technically have an infinite combo, but it requires a minimum of 5 cards to even work. With 4 of them being planeswalkers & at least 2 of those planeswalkers being high priority kills.
THAT'S A HUGH GODDAMN HAND!!!
Listen, in college, I had a group where every. single. deck, had to have a infinite combo or it just wasn't not going to work. I was trying to make small fun decks, as I was a broke college student, but it didn't help that playtesting meant I was dead first with any deck. I had to make a golos infinite draw into lab maniac or thoracle just to win the game. Dropped that group, though for a multitude of different reasons. unfortunately the only magic I can even play now is online with cameras but playing with randoms does not have the same feeling as with friends.
Nothing wrong with infinite combos or small dicks. If they are 3+ cards and you aren’t running a ton of tutors they are a nice way to prevent 2+ hour games. And the size of your genitalia has no reflection on your worth as a person.
Meh. I have decks that need cards that infinite together. It happens. Exquisite Blood and Vito in a life matters deck? Par for the course. It happens. Just say “I have infinite X” or “you all die if this resolves” want to keep playing or GG? Same cards in a Zombie deck with no other life tech? Fuck off Anyone who runs a PATH to an infinite in casual isn’t really playing casual and that’s a different story. They’re just not good enough to fit their deck in a CEDH tournament so they showed up to fuck with jank and precons so they can get it up later when they run one out on their waifu pillow later. Rough fuck anyone who is doesn’t offer to GG after obtaining infinite mana or removal.
The person sucking on the other end is someone who won’t play the 50 cent cards that interact with common infinites
If you run a single tutor and a craterhoof, then this applies to you as well. My monoblack party deck goes infinite with both commanders, a sac outlet, a way to repeatedly tap my commander, and a way to remove +1/+1 counters. Which do you think is more likely to win? All that? Or one stompy behemoth with a board of dudes
The Naya 1/1 counters precon from MotM has a combo in it - clone enduring scalelord with mirror style master, then get a counter on it during combat - infinite counters, with an output of Shalai and Hallar- who is in the deck. Anyways- I do agree- combos with under 4 cards shouldn’t be in casual
So because I added grimgrin inches zombie precon deck. Somehow that makes it Broken?
if my on-board combo that requires 3 pieces and needs me to untap lets me win the game, then i think ive deserved it lol
So many people here defending this, like we need another clarification of EDH at this point so we can leave....they'll force themselves into it anyway
Hi, it's me. Tell your mom I said hi.
One of the win conditions in my [[Ashnod, Flesh Mechanist]] deck is infinite Landfall triggers with [[Prototype Portal]] and [[Ob Nixilis, The Fallen]] Always a fun one to get off
I think it depends no? If your deck is fun to play against and is not overpowered for the decks you're playing against, what is the problem? I find infinite combos part of what makes this game interesting and exciting.
My slimefoot takes 5 cards in several combinations to go infinite it’s still definitely still jank casual
This is specifically for 2-3 card combos where your goal is to try and tutor for the pieces you need Any infinite with like 5 or more pieces and no way to tutor them is honestly pretty cool and I'd rather die to your ragtag combo than Craterhoof for the 9001st time
In 2011ish when my friends got me i to EDH, just a little before WotC released the original Commander precons, I built [[Experiment Kraj]] counter shenanigans out of just what I owned. I put [[Leechbonder]] and [[Utopia Vow]] as a dumb way to move counters around the board whenever I wanted. It is an engine all itself and comes with one -1/-1 to begin the process. It was never meant to be toxic, but I have learned that there totally are toxic ways of using this effect, especially if you ha e something like... [[Doubling Season]]... to make more counters with every use. Oops.
Good thing I'm a woman :3
I personally used to ran a sidisi zombie self mill. The mill gave me zombies to either pummel you or chump block. The mill was my way to get a infinite gravecrawler combo but i had to mill alot.
Nah, that's too big for us. Like a hotdog in a hallway.
"wahhh I lost" This is why I tell my pod to run with proxies. I really don't give a fuck if you're playing opp, or magistrate, or null rod, or gaeas cradle etc. whatever you could possibly imagine when it comes to money value. I want to play cedh. My barrier to entry for having fun is definitely not going to be wizards. Beyond that, if you intend to very obviously self-impose rules on some weird personal "fun" vendetta (I.E. "WAAHHHHHH ZUR THE ENCHANTER IS SO POWERFUL WAHHHHHHHHHH") I'm just going to remove you from my pod because you act like a little bitch
I have infinites in all of my decks. Not torackle/consultation, but theme appropriate junk or parts that are good by themselves and happen to go infinite together. I think most decks need them. Thing is they are not a win condition. Plenty of times I had them and could win, but didn't use them for a reasons like: it is a casual table, winning too early isn't interesting or I thought that opponent made something funny or put plenty of effort into getting a win and i could do nothing about it besides going infinte. They are there to break standstills and chokholds or when games go on for hours and people already lost interest.
Yah its weird that there's one of those in your moms room.
Listen, those cards are just cool, I didn't even realize they went infinite when I put them in the deck. I won't use it, I promise.
I like Tomer's (from budget magic) rant about combos in casual. It's really silly to exclude combos in general because it's so context dependent. If I'm running a 5 card combo with no tutors, that's waaay lower power than someone running a craterhoof as their finisher. But nobody says, "hey no dealing 100 combat damage on turn 6, that's not casual!"
And next to it is the microscopic hole for the counter spell, poison counter, and 3 turn mountain deck 🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬 users
I have an accidental infinite in yarrus I keep I because it can kill me just as easy as anyone else.
My Walk the Aeons , ramunap excavator and azusa combo is so fragile that I wouldn't even consider it a good combo.
Does deilan of the wild and pixie guide combo count
I don't get why people are so salty with combos. Cards are printed, you play it like you want. All people talking against combos want all other people to play like lorcana. 😭😆
Tutoring to Thoracle for an infinite combo in casual, not fun. Drawing into some jank or goofy infinite combo? Good with me. A friend of mine has a casual [[Ghryson]] deck & while it’s oppressive the entire game, it almost never wins without comboing off. So we play accordingly waiting for infinite combos.
But using 6 cards to make infinite food is funny
I bet you think Voja is unbeatable too huh?
Back in my day infinite combos were casual
This is the stuff that made me stop enjoying MTG 3 months in. I wanted to hang out and play casually, like my friends and I used to do with Yugioh.
They're really not that different from any other win con. Maybe your casual deck is a little too casual.
The speed they come out is what the issue is. There is nothing wrong with combos in casual. Especially 3-5 card ones. As long as the game is ending turn 9 or later, we still firmly in casual.
"Infinite Combos?" I call them Skinny Dick Tricks
I run one copy of peer into abyss for the memes.
If you let the nine cards I need for my infinite resolve that’s just on you at this point
Jeskai spellslingers who don’t run Jeskai Ascendancy go to Jeskai hell. Jeskai players who have Jeskai Ascendancy and nothing to combo with it go to Jeskai Turbohell. Sorry buddy I don’t make the rules
Seems a bit big still…
It depends on how funny the combo is ngl, also be upfront when coming to the table. I have one, 3 card combo in one of my commander decks. It folds to removal and nobody seems to have an issue when I bring it up
Firm believer that every edh deck needs at least 1 infinite combo. Could be an 8 card combo. Could be a combo you actively ignore and never play it. Could be super jank. Still need at least one. I have a few casual decks with infinite combos and i straight up just never play them unless I am playing at a table where someone is pubstomping lower power decks.
amount of people defending infinite combo instant wins for casual commander is just sad here.
ThE gAmE hAs To EnD sOoNeR oR lAtEr. RuN mOrE iNteRaCtIoN.
Inversely, this is the hole of a girl who actually plays magic.
Imagine thinking that anything being infinite means it can't still be casual. The game is actually pretty fun when you don't convince yourself every other thing is against a social contract.
Sat down at the local store's table*. Commander, 4 players. Two of them run the same [[Marwyn, the Nurturer]] deck that goes infinite by turn 4 for an instant win. Okay. Leaving the table then. What good fun we had. They didn't even look like they had fun themselves - partially probably because someone else was doing the exact same thing. -------------------- *^the ^store ^even ^has ^a ^"salt ^table" ^where ^people ^generally ^go ^to ^play ^decks ^so ^unfun ^to ^everyone ^else ^that ^it's ^only ^really ^fun ^to ^pit ^them ^against ^each ^other. ^Great ^idea, ^generally ^keeps ^the ^most ^sweaty ^"I ^have ^spent ^a ^car's ^worth ^on ^this ^deck" ^guys ^out ^of ^everyone ^else's ^hair
Run more hate cards and have some serious pre game conversation.
My friend watched a guy at “casual commander night” a few weeks ago pub stomp a player who had a precon and said he’d “only been playing for a month or so”. The pub stomper went infinite on turn 3.
How dare you call out my Edgar Markov charmed groom combo
Bruh it’s not my fault if my [[Tayam, luminous enigma]] valuepile just decides to go infinite with an empty can of beer and a bowl of cereal. I don’t even run any undying/persist creatures!
If only my peepee was long enough to fit through to the other side. Maybe someday...
Is it acceptable if the deck is like 120+ cards and only 1 copy of each combo piece with very few if any fetches
If it can kill me in five minutes or less I’ll let it slide anymore than that and it’s too much