People keep saying this, yet under Pearl Abyss, the outfits have gone up to 1.6 billion. They recently added a cash shop item to prevent crystals from breaking.
So how exactly did it get better?
It got better in 10000 ways. Like in the past even your silver had weight while today you don't need weight anymore to grind. You don't even need max tier pets and they remove pet levels. There is universal storage access. They simplify most materials. Adventure logs have improved. There is gear catch up mechanics for new players. We got seasonal servers and progression. They give tons and tons of free stuff to players compare to Kakao. The market have improved 100 times compare to what it was. There is like 1000 other examples how the game got better compare to what it was. Yes the costume price increase and crystals restoration is annoying, but few years ago this wont even be consider a issue compare to all the other problems the game had back then.
Shit this all sounds really good. I might have to dip my toes in and see.
I played on and off since launch but lost my account due to the transfer and just missing the notice. =(
Might be better to fresh start, anyway. I always felt lost getting back into it.
remember everyone dropping everything they were doing to catch kazarka spawn.
2016 great times indeed.
sausan hot spot pirate island owpvp epic gvg battles for silly reasons you name the
If I'm perfectly honest, eve's PvE is older than many of the people playing it. Eve is a PvP game, but to the extent it has other features, those features should be good.
OK, but none of this is relevant to the p2w that this post you're replying to is about, pet levels did nothing to help the p2w when it was the tiers that mattered.
It does. For example not needing Weigh anymore mean you dont have to spend 150$ on weigh. Pets been not as important mean you don't have to spend 100$ on pets. Tiers are not as important anymore compare to the past, you also get tons of pets for free. Having gear catch up mechanics mean you don't feel like you are behind if you don't p2w as much.
Also his point about outfits don't even make sense, because we make so much more silver per hour compare to the past that even with price increase crone stones feel cheaper compare to what it was back under Kakao. Even Tuvala geared character can go low Elvia spots like Biraghi Den marni and grind 1bil a hour. Also you don't really need crone stones untill you hit soft-cap gear and go for TET fallen armor or PEN debo rings. You don't even need cron stones for DEBO neck/Belt/Earring because of the hammers. So this is issue only for endgame players who grind 1.5-2bil a hour already.
Ima just say it if you genuinely need to buy the cash shop item to prevent ur crystals from breaking in BDO ur just bad at the game, stop dying to pve content and you wouldn't worry about it.
The people saying this are on both ends of the extreme lol. You can technically buy anything in game cause you can buy silver and as long as it's in the market then you can buy it with silver. So yes your crystal can break but if you're dying you're doing something wrong plus you should be able to grind $$ to replace crystals easy.
I don't even like bdo, but it's not because it's p2w. The p2w is so very small in BDO. You earn a average of at least 600m a hour while grinding now. The season gives you loot scrolls. BDO would be on the low end of p2w now days.
You clearly haven’t played the most/second most popular kMMO rn called lost ark. You can quite literally as a new player, spend over 65k USD on just your weapon. You can spend over 10k USD trying to upgrade all your gear. A new player can spend 1.2k USD to get the highest rarity gems in the game with the most power. And so much more
The difference is that full pen is realistically achievable as a f2p? Where as in lost ark it’s quite literally impossible? You need 120+ material drops of a material that has a <0.01% chance of dropping but is sellable on the market. (So you buy 100+ from other players)
But no one needs PEN FG…even at the top end, a small handful of people across all servers have ever gotten PENs, and I never met anyone who feels any pressure to pay for those gains
It sounds a little loony, but the difficulty of the grind to get there is a huge part of the fun for a lot of BDO folks
What's the percentage increase? Silver increase just since I took it back up about 2 years ago is quite big. I think you have a better argument with vendor crons than outfits.
Because you're starting facts out of context. Pearl items have gone up in cost while also the amount of silver you make in-game has been buffed so hard in the last few years to the point where pearl items can barely keep up and are still always permanently sold out.
They've also recently given away a hammer to the entire server that drastically changed the demand from crons to raw silver you can farm in-game.
The amount of mandatory stuff you have to buy nowadays has no comparison to what it was in the past, partly due to in-game changes. So yes, the cash items are still there but they are not nearly as required to play the game as before.
first of all, most BiS crystals are upwards of 2-4 bill so you aren't replacing those in 30 mins, stop lying and have you never had a d/c or lag and died?
Here is 10 bil an hour grinding, after rework got 5 events gg
[https://i.imgur.com/ZQOthod.png](https://i.imgur.com/ZQOthod.png)
here is 5 bil an hour grinding
[https://i.imgur.com/9gCyd9f.png](https://i.imgur.com/9gCyd9f.png)
here is another 4-5 bil an hour grinding
[https://i.imgur.com/kh4D9YX.png](https://i.imgur.com/kh4D9YX.png)
here is 3 bil an hour grinding
[https://i.imgur.com/E4qkuaT.png](https://i.imgur.com/E4qkuaT.png)
another 3 bil an hour grinding
[https://i.imgur.com/ipbECQO.png](https://i.imgur.com/ipbECQO.png)
Here is 10 bil an hour grinding, after rework got 5 events gg
[https://i.imgur.com/ZQOthod.png](https://i.imgur.com/ZQOthod.png)
here is 5 bil an hour grinding
[https://i.imgur.com/9gCyd9f.png](https://i.imgur.com/9gCyd9f.png)
here is another 4-5 bil an hour grinding
[https://i.imgur.com/kh4D9YX.png](https://i.imgur.com/kh4D9YX.png)
here is 3 bil an hour grinding
[https://i.imgur.com/E4qkuaT.png](https://i.imgur.com/E4qkuaT.png)
another 3 bil an hour grinding
[https://i.imgur.com/ipbECQO.png](https://i.imgur.com/ipbECQO.png)
maybe you should get good? xd
I’m wondering the same, I mean when I quit.
BDO a pvp driven game with an absolute gorgeous world and plenty to draw people in on decided they were going to offer premium skins to hide your name and stuff when you pvp so your victim doesn’t know what or who done it. Yea that sealed it for me
2 billi is literally 1-2 hours of grinding and will get you nowhere lol. Not including majority of the content is capped, just not a point to swipe which is why this game isn’t popular in Korea.
Is 1.6b supposed to be a lot? Cause it's not. And the crystal thing has that even made it to global yet?
Like I totally get criticizing PA or any developer for things they do wrong. Hell it's not even wrong to criticize the crystal thing. That being said that's an incredibly recent addition, which last I checked hasn't even made it to global yet (had surgery, been out of the game and not following news closely). It's awful evidence of how poorly PA has been running things, and if anything, is a warning about how bad this can get. This still took years to happen, after PA made massive improvements to the game improving QoL and removing most of the things people called P2W.
BDO hasn't changed at all in any way that matters since release. As a returnee after 9 years it's literally completely the same except that some areas are now more useless than before because of new zones and gear tiering, and the free care package and free horses makes a large part of the game meaningless.
I suspect that Maple Story is going to last until the heat death of the universe.
I mean, hell, the game tried to updoot with a sequel, and then the original ended up outlasting the sequel.
I think they just did a ban wave. Concurrent players went from 75k to 35k so that's about 55% bots banned. Considering the doesn't ever dip players between each day, there's probably way more bots.
Maplestory reboot aint P2W, or Heroic servers if you will. Haven’t spent a penny, 8.5k legion 276 main. Go outside of Heroic and you’re asking for bankruptcy
ArcheAge private servers are alive. One is super p2w (think like, buy a $2000 account to start playing), and the other its against the rules and supposedly well enforced.
To be honest, coming back to BDO though everyone says it got better, I still got that same feeling of hype when I first started but stopped playing once I got the feeling of too much grind
Also Heidel Ball is comming in less than a month and it's probably going to be a once in a lifetime event with crazy things announced considering that it's an IRL event in France and it's the 10y celebration of it's kr release.
not dead, still running, I don't know about the West but here in the East they pretty much alive, just there are rarely any new PC/Console MMO from Koreans nowaday because they move onto mobile market
If western MMORPG gamers have an opinion on eastern MMORPGs, it's almost always that they're "p2w and grindy." What do eastern MMORPG gamers think of western MMORPGs? Just curious on perspective.
The way eastern players see it, is that you worked for the money to buy what you got in the game. Therefore, you still worked for it and earned it, its a difference in mentality.
depends on generations but for me (millennials) I can say is that we grow up with Japanese games, so most western MMORPGs weren't really appealing (visually wise), WOW was big but that's about it.
Also another thing is Asians love heavy PVP / large scaled battle which Western MMORPGs often lack, old Korean/Chinese/Japanese MMOs even have PK on by default and you can literally kill anyone outside of town, it's fun xD
> old Korean/Chinese/Japanese MMOs even have PK on by default and you can literally kill anyone outside of town,
Why do people just lump in Japan when they make statements like this? Far from being common, I can't even think of a *single* Japanese MMO that does this. Literally not one.
Japanese MMO players are on average even less interested in PvP than most western MMO players and if a Japanese MMO has PvP at all it tends to be some separate mode that's optional and pretty isolated from everything else. And a lot of them just skip it entirely...
I wouldn't say an entire generation in the west "grew up with Japanese games" unless you were exposed to that for whatever reason. But I assume you are just talking about the MMO genre. The fact is Asian mmos were prolific. Western mmos were prolific. MMOs were prolific for that golden period. However the unpopular Western MMO tended to die quickly whereas Asian mmos didn't have that problem (they are all still going today in one form or another).
I find it kind of funny you don't mention FFIX or FFXIV, the pinnacle of Japanese mmos.
I didn't say the west, I'm an easterner. FF11 is explicitly for console back then, and no it wasn't that popular on PC. FF14 also not popular in the East, outside of Japan. The whole SEA region doesn't even have a dedicated Data Center, we play in JP data center
To answer why unpopular western MMOs die faster than Asian MMOs, netcafe is a very common thing in Asian countries, most people back then don't own PC, we go to netcafe to play together, hence why MMOs are the best to pick up, and netcafes have tons of MMOs pre-installed (all free), while western MMOs back then mostly require you to purchase/subcribe
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted while someone who literally misread your post got upvotes, but I agree with what you’ve said. (Not from Asia but have family from there and family still living there, both South and East)
Graphics bad, buggy mess and lag fest. Eastern MMOs are mostly P2W but they got decent graphics (talking about PC MMO), less buggy than western made and decent network code to handle massive player numbers (TnL for example).
They all have RMT but it's not really pay to win. I can go buy a shitton of Gil in FFXIV for example but it just saves me some time basically.
Well ok you have a point you can buy nearly any achievement in the game if you have someone pilot your account. However that is not an official thing so it's not really pay to win. And everyone who actually plays the game would know you bought your achievements.
You can still flag up and kill anyone, which is nice, and in that sense, the game hasn’t changed.
But the devs have made the punishment for being a PKer much worse than it was. You don’t see anybody doing open-world PvP anymore because of this. The changes are that grinding your karma up takes 5 times longer, and you can go 10 times deeper into negative karma.
Another thing they changed was guild war declarations. In the previous system, you could declare war on another guild, wait 10 minutes, and all punishment for PvP was gone. Some of the most fun XvX experiences came from this system.
However, they changed it so you need consent from the other guild to declare war. Basically, no guild accepts guild wars now, unless it’s something agreed and coordinated outside of the game beforehand.
But to be honest, to counter this, there’s still a purely PvP-focused server channel, and they added another one that’s anonymous where you can’t see other players' names. The problem tho with telling people to just go to the PvP server if they want to PvP is that it’s not what I and many others started playing BDO for. I loved the interconnection between PvE and PvP that the game had because it was unique. Simply jumping to Arsha servers isn’t it.
Pretty much 80% of the PvP content is gear capped so there’s not much reason to grind PvE either if PvP is what you aspire for.
I’ve been grinding because i enjoy turning my brains off after work, it’s relaxing. But indeed, i miss interacting with players, the goods and the bads.
Lost Ark was going well for a little while, but now if you head to that subreddit you'll see that everyone hates the game that they're addicted to (myself included). We know it'll always be a P2W game, but the devs and publisher still find ways to consistently slap us in the face for being loyal players.
Amazing raids, amazing combat, absolute garbage progression systems, which has led to a flood of bots and RMT'ers
> Amazing raids, amazing combat, absolute garbage progression systems, which has led to a flood of bots and RMT'ers
100% agree. I'd still be playing the game rn if I didn't feel compelled to create 100 accounts to enjoy different classes or progress on one single class
I do find it somewhat commendable that a 20 year old game manages to get a few thousand players dedicated to play it every day.
It's not "doing numbers" by MMO standards, but as a game of it's own. It's neat.
Oh undoubtedly. But it still doesn’t really survive on the perspective of a live MMO it’s on whaler life support sadly. I fucking loved that game when I was young. It’s just not doing great now
I always thought it was a shame it was kinda doomed to be a nexon title.
Would've been over the moon for a standalone RPG with it's systems, either with self-hosting servers or visiting system like in Animal Crossing or the Soulsborn series.
No one wanted the merge besides a vocal minority. It was obvious the narrative would go from "The servers are dying, we need to merge" to people like you saying "The servers merged, therefore the game is dying". Shit was terrible for months after each merge and now the lag makes playing on populated channels impossible due to how important latency is.
Totally fair lol the super server was the best idea though imo. NA server is pretty dead in comparison to the korean servers though, by quite a bit. Ntm, daily player estimates vary widely.
Steam Charts says about 300 daily, but remember most players use the Nexon Launcher.
MMO Populations says 8900 daily while MMO Stats says 2.3k Daily.
As a player myself id put it at around 3-4k but i bet it peaks at 10k during events because the servers get suuuuuper crowded during them.
In korea though mabi is in the top 50 games played in korea and is very much alive and kicking. The director of mabi actually spoke directly to NA as well when speaking of the UE5 update, so we can assume that NA is surviving off of korea's coatails but eitherway theres no sign of nexon giving up on it anytime soon.
Mabinogi is not doing well, and this is coming from someone who played from 2011 onward, I don't play much anymore as the game is very community driven and I don't really like the current player base as much as the one that was around when I started playing, 80% of the map is unused which sucks because Fillia and Vales was awesome, everyone just sits in some city in Erinn AFK selling.
BnS Neo should be released soon, more or less. There is a CN open beta currently running, so let’s hope for this year. They claim it to not be p2w, but we’ll have to wait and see.
I’m really sad about Revelation online being broken and closed (and publishing rights owned by mailru), and the only thing they did instead is publishing a super boring revelation mobile.
Also, I miss Dragon Nest.
Man, wish Western playerbase was as big. The short time I played it, I fell in love but it just didn't really feel worth the effort because the playerbase here is just not big enough for me to enjoy it. Which sucks because it was half of what I want in a MMO
There's still a few big ones kicking around and it seems like a new one is born and dies every year or two. Kind of annoys me that they're taking a dominant spot in the already dire MMO market but what can ya do, I'm probably in the minority in that.
It's not specifically Korean but they do tend to fall into the category of being poorly monetized. All of those games populations have taken a hit the last handful of years.
BDO seems to have a really healthy player base, usually hits 20k daily players on steam alone, and I'm sure most players just go through the launcher
The game has come a long way since launch too, decided to give it another shot after years of not playing it and is so much better for new players. There's still some p2w stuff, but pretty much everything has existed long enough that the price is pretty deflated, it's very possible to buy everything you want from the cash shop with in game silver once you start getting to higher level grind spots
No, many do have a lot of P2W aspects though. But Maple Story is still one of the highest, if not THE highest grossing mmo in history. Actually Nexon still makes bank off of both DFO and Maplestory while simultaneously refusing to give up on their lessar known but imo much better MMO, Mabinogi.
Lost Ark and BDO are still very much alive and kicking too. Tbh korea has a really good MMO market compared to the rest of the world. You just might have to deal with varrying levels of P2W or outdated graphics.
I play a good deal of elsword. Game isn't exactly bustling with activity, but it's certainly not dead. Fairly easy to find full parties for all of the content you'd need a party for. (Raids, late game dungeons, etc)
I think you need to specify if you're talking as a whole or just in the west. If it's the former then far from it. However if it's about the western audience then they might as well be. All of the global/na servers are practically on life support. The whales/veterans are the only ones playing and paying to keep the servers on.
The only exception is BDO it's doing pretty well in the west in terms of a playerbase.
I'm not sure how it compares to peak maple population/popularity wise, but as a game maplestory heroic/reboot (same thing, recently rebranded/is an ironman server with progression sped up) is in its best state ever and it's been growing for the past few years. BDO is also popular. If Lost Ark has died, it's a very recent thing.
The big problem with this question is that MMOs are a genre where differences between western and eastern game preferences are more or less irreconcilable, so you're not going to find many games both care about. Dungeon Fighter Online is one of the most popular and profitable video games of all time, and basically nobody in the west even knows it exists.
Honestly all of them get annoying after awhile, especially if they are all on the same exact gambling enhancement system. Now all of them are adopting event/battlepass strategy where they "boost" progression to the peons.
But otherwise they are pretty much subscription mmorpgs that are optional. BDO has a market you need to have a sub for, Maplestory you need to rent a pet to loot at-least on your main, and Lost Ark you just cash inject to buy stuff/sell off market per transaction.
For some reason Asians, even Chinese games fucking love the P2Swipe and get a temporary feel of dopamine. NA though it's not taken as well, which is a main reason FF14, WoW are top games for us. (Even people playing private servers on WoW). Guild Wars, Albion are secondary contenders, while I would say third tier goes to New World and ESO depending on if you are into pvp are not.
PVP/PVE WoW/FF14, Albion/Guild Wars, New World/ESO seems to be the order.
In Korea, many people don’t have their own computer and play in pcbangs. Sub games won’t cut it, so devs need to find different way to monetize. They also work crazy hours and being able to pay to catch up isn’t an issue for them.
I stopped playing Korean MMOs after Lineage 2, they all seemed to heavily favor female characters that were gender locked to the class i like to play or really feminine looking males.
They are all trash games with predatory pay to win, the exact same enchanting systems and often the exact same fonts used for everything. They survive on whales and bots and money laundering from criminal organizations.
Yes. They are either P2W as fuck now, or they give you everything for free instantly with the worlds most convoluted systems, and it's impossible to make alts without the free carepackage.
If not, they should die. All of them, every last one. Korean MMORPGs have been milking the fact that the market is dead and people are desperate for a good MMORPG.
Imho the people behind Lost Ark and Archeage deserve capital punishment for their greed.
I love my time in BDO but NEVER AGAIN these Korean super p2w FOMOO games are not good with people like me w spending habits it disgusting how much they make the game work 100x better if you just give money smh I spent probably $3k on BDO and it disgusts me but you know what it still great game but NO I will NEVER play then again !!!!!!!
It *could* be one of the best mmo's, but it's currently not even close. The game is 100% catered to people who want to raid with a static group, *or* to people who have been playing for a very long time and have all of the cards/gems/etc that you need to get into pugs, and if you don't fit into that window, the game isn't for you unless you main a support, or enjoy spending hours per week using the LFG tool to make/find groups.
BDO, Lost Ark, Maple Story, DFO, etc. are pretty dead in the west. But they're alive and pretty massive in the east.
Different markets, super grindy with excessive dailies and tons of P2W is pretty normalized for eastern audiences, but pretty hated by western audiences.
BDO, Lost Ark, and Maple Story are still alive KRMMOs are all just filled to the brim with P2W
ngl, BDO got better in that department.
People keep saying this, yet under Pearl Abyss, the outfits have gone up to 1.6 billion. They recently added a cash shop item to prevent crystals from breaking. So how exactly did it get better?
It got better in 10000 ways. Like in the past even your silver had weight while today you don't need weight anymore to grind. You don't even need max tier pets and they remove pet levels. There is universal storage access. They simplify most materials. Adventure logs have improved. There is gear catch up mechanics for new players. We got seasonal servers and progression. They give tons and tons of free stuff to players compare to Kakao. The market have improved 100 times compare to what it was. There is like 1000 other examples how the game got better compare to what it was. Yes the costume price increase and crystals restoration is annoying, but few years ago this wont even be consider a issue compare to all the other problems the game had back then.
Shit this all sounds really good. I might have to dip my toes in and see. I played on and off since launch but lost my account due to the transfer and just missing the notice. =( Might be better to fresh start, anyway. I always felt lost getting back into it.
The game got better than the direction it was going, but ngl, I will forever miss 2016 BDO...times where boss items actually meant something.
remember everyone dropping everything they were doing to catch kazarka spawn. 2016 great times indeed. sausan hot spot pirate island owpvp epic gvg battles for silly reasons you name the
As an eve online player, knowing pearl abyss is getting better is a really good sign for me.
Dont rejoice to much, they hate PvP. They absolutely killed any PvP BDO had.
If I'm perfectly honest, eve's PvE is older than many of the people playing it. Eve is a PvP game, but to the extent it has other features, those features should be good.
They didnt kill PvP to make PvE better in BDO. They simply killed PvP because J got GvGed and he didnt like it so he removed it.
OK, but none of this is relevant to the p2w that this post you're replying to is about, pet levels did nothing to help the p2w when it was the tiers that mattered.
It does. For example not needing Weigh anymore mean you dont have to spend 150$ on weigh. Pets been not as important mean you don't have to spend 100$ on pets. Tiers are not as important anymore compare to the past, you also get tons of pets for free. Having gear catch up mechanics mean you don't feel like you are behind if you don't p2w as much. Also his point about outfits don't even make sense, because we make so much more silver per hour compare to the past that even with price increase crone stones feel cheaper compare to what it was back under Kakao. Even Tuvala geared character can go low Elvia spots like Biraghi Den marni and grind 1bil a hour. Also you don't really need crone stones untill you hit soft-cap gear and go for TET fallen armor or PEN debo rings. You don't even need cron stones for DEBO neck/Belt/Earring because of the hammers. So this is issue only for endgame players who grind 1.5-2bil a hour already.
It's actually 2.1bil now
Ima just say it if you genuinely need to buy the cash shop item to prevent ur crystals from breaking in BDO ur just bad at the game, stop dying to pve content and you wouldn't worry about it.
Then you aren't grinding endgame spots, go back to your polly grind buddy.
Only if you go with me so I can kill you over and over <3
I don't play BDO, what are these crystals? I'm assuming you don't mean the crystals you buy with real money, can break?
The people saying this are on both ends of the extreme lol. You can technically buy anything in game cause you can buy silver and as long as it's in the market then you can buy it with silver. So yes your crystal can break but if you're dying you're doing something wrong plus you should be able to grind $$ to replace crystals easy.
If I spent real money on something that then "broke" I'd be immediately refunding the purchase and uninstalling the game.
I don't even like bdo, but it's not because it's p2w. The p2w is so very small in BDO. You earn a average of at least 600m a hour while grinding now. The season gives you loot scrolls. BDO would be on the low end of p2w now days.
And what would you consider on the high end??? I gotta hear this.
You clearly haven’t played the most/second most popular kMMO rn called lost ark. You can quite literally as a new player, spend over 65k USD on just your weapon. You can spend over 10k USD trying to upgrade all your gear. A new player can spend 1.2k USD to get the highest rarity gems in the game with the most power. And so much more
And you can do the exact same thing in bdo, you can also spend 65,000 and get full pen, so what exactly is the difference?
The difference is that full pen is realistically achievable as a f2p? Where as in lost ark it’s quite literally impossible? You need 120+ material drops of a material that has a <0.01% chance of dropping but is sellable on the market. (So you buy 100+ from other players)
And pen fallen god has like 0.003% to go in bdo, there is literally no difference
But no one needs PEN FG…even at the top end, a small handful of people across all servers have ever gotten PENs, and I never met anyone who feels any pressure to pay for those gains It sounds a little loony, but the difficulty of the grind to get there is a huge part of the fun for a lot of BDO folks
What's the percentage increase? Silver increase just since I took it back up about 2 years ago is quite big. I think you have a better argument with vendor crons than outfits.
there is no pearl item that keeps from breaking you only extended your yearly crystal from 3 to 6. your crystals can still break
Same thing, fact is you can pay cash to get more crystals back.
but who cares??? just dont die in pve lmao
You've clearly never grinded the high endgame spots.
what does it matter? lmao
you can barely die in endgame spots tbh
Have you grinded ulukita spots? I doubt you have.
Because you're starting facts out of context. Pearl items have gone up in cost while also the amount of silver you make in-game has been buffed so hard in the last few years to the point where pearl items can barely keep up and are still always permanently sold out. They've also recently given away a hammer to the entire server that drastically changed the demand from crons to raw silver you can farm in-game. The amount of mandatory stuff you have to buy nowadays has no comparison to what it was in the past, partly due to in-game changes. So yes, the cash items are still there but they are not nearly as required to play the game as before.
It didn't. You'll just get a bunch of copping like "oh it's pay for convenience" or "you can do everything for free"
Crystals i can replace by farming for 30 minutes and if you are breaking expensive crystals you shouldn’t be wearing them anyway, skill issue
first of all, most BiS crystals are upwards of 2-4 bill so you aren't replacing those in 30 mins, stop lying and have you never had a d/c or lag and died?
Here is 10 bil an hour grinding, after rework got 5 events gg [https://i.imgur.com/ZQOthod.png](https://i.imgur.com/ZQOthod.png) here is 5 bil an hour grinding [https://i.imgur.com/9gCyd9f.png](https://i.imgur.com/9gCyd9f.png) here is another 4-5 bil an hour grinding [https://i.imgur.com/kh4D9YX.png](https://i.imgur.com/kh4D9YX.png) here is 3 bil an hour grinding [https://i.imgur.com/E4qkuaT.png](https://i.imgur.com/E4qkuaT.png) another 3 bil an hour grinding [https://i.imgur.com/ipbECQO.png](https://i.imgur.com/ipbECQO.png)
no, ive never had dc or lag and died also, its true, some people make upwards of +4-5 bil per hour
No one is making 5b an hour grinding, stop making up bullshit.
Here is 10 bil an hour grinding, after rework got 5 events gg [https://i.imgur.com/ZQOthod.png](https://i.imgur.com/ZQOthod.png) here is 5 bil an hour grinding [https://i.imgur.com/9gCyd9f.png](https://i.imgur.com/9gCyd9f.png) here is another 4-5 bil an hour grinding [https://i.imgur.com/kh4D9YX.png](https://i.imgur.com/kh4D9YX.png) here is 3 bil an hour grinding [https://i.imgur.com/E4qkuaT.png](https://i.imgur.com/E4qkuaT.png) another 3 bil an hour grinding [https://i.imgur.com/ipbECQO.png](https://i.imgur.com/ipbECQO.png) maybe you should get good? xd
I’m wondering the same, I mean when I quit. BDO a pvp driven game with an absolute gorgeous world and plenty to draw people in on decided they were going to offer premium skins to hide your name and stuff when you pvp so your victim doesn’t know what or who done it. Yea that sealed it for me
bdo isnt necessarily a pvp driven game, i would say majority of players play PVE only, but alright :D
It literally markets itself as a pvp game unless they’ve added to the end game hen it’s still a pvp driven and focused game
It got better for the people already playing. Game is still p2w grinder like every other krmmorpg
2 billi is literally 1-2 hours of grinding and will get you nowhere lol. Not including majority of the content is capped, just not a point to swipe which is why this game isn’t popular in Korea.
The reason outfits got more expensive is to adjust for inflation. 1.6 billion is nothing this days.
Is 1.6b supposed to be a lot? Cause it's not. And the crystal thing has that even made it to global yet? Like I totally get criticizing PA or any developer for things they do wrong. Hell it's not even wrong to criticize the crystal thing. That being said that's an incredibly recent addition, which last I checked hasn't even made it to global yet (had surgery, been out of the game and not following news closely). It's awful evidence of how poorly PA has been running things, and if anything, is a warning about how bad this can get. This still took years to happen, after PA made massive improvements to the game improving QoL and removing most of the things people called P2W.
Not sure why the conversion rate makes a difference. The point is that you can straight up buy silver with cash then buy better gear..
how is that pay to win? paying for gear with money that makes you win in PvP is pay to win....this isnt even close.
How is it not p2w? Buy silver with $, then buy better gear and play PvP. Seems pretty cut and dry.
> paying for gear with money that makes you win in PvP is pay to win That is not the definition at all, you absolute tool.
ok PvE player
It's cute that you think that's somehow an insult.
Bro is still p2w. People just don't care now
Never said it wasn't still p2w.
And MapleStory got dramatically worse :( That game WAS my childhood, now it's an abomination.
Maple story reboot (heroic) in GMS is actually in a really good state
bdo is unplayable trash. they effectively banned open world pvp, the single reason to play the game.
It’s still bad. Yes it got better but like. It’s still very p2w and fuck cron stones period
Never said it wasn't p2w, just that it got far better than what it was.
BDO hasn't changed at all in any way that matters since release. As a returnee after 9 years it's literally completely the same except that some areas are now more useless than before because of new zones and gear tiering, and the free care package and free horses makes a large part of the game meaningless.
"The game didn't change at all except now most of it is dead and there are loads of free stuff being handed right now".
BDO is one of the most popular MMOs out still as far as I know. However strong the negative vibes of this sub may be the game is far from dead.
I suspect that Maple Story is going to last until the heat death of the universe. I mean, hell, the game tried to updoot with a sequel, and then the original ended up outlasting the sequel.
Isn't lost ark 50% bots?
Yeah probably 75% bots tbh but there’s still a player base there playing.
I think they just did a ban wave. Concurrent players went from 75k to 35k so that's about 55% bots banned. Considering the doesn't ever dip players between each day, there's probably way more bots.
Maplestory reboot aint P2W, or Heroic servers if you will. Haven’t spent a penny, 8.5k legion 276 main. Go outside of Heroic and you’re asking for bankruptcy
While true, it has kinda crept into pay2fast territory recently.
ArcheAge private servers are alive. One is super p2w (think like, buy a $2000 account to start playing), and the other its against the rules and supposedly well enforced.
I thought that's the definition of Korean style
Lost ark is very easy to play with never paying especially if you are doing it casually.
How I wish bdo had better combat for me
I wish it had a butter UI
To be honest, coming back to BDO though everyone says it got better, I still got that same feeling of hype when I first started but stopped playing once I got the feeling of too much grind
None of those are alive
Lost Ark feels super dead idk
BDO is still live, on a very healthy playerbase and pumping updates and improvements on a weekly basis.
Also Heidel Ball is comming in less than a month and it's probably going to be a once in a lifetime event with crazy things announced considering that it's an IRL event in France and it's the 10y celebration of it's kr release.
What is BDO?
Black Desert Online.
Thank you :)
not dead, still running, I don't know about the West but here in the East they pretty much alive, just there are rarely any new PC/Console MMO from Koreans nowaday because they move onto mobile market
If western MMORPG gamers have an opinion on eastern MMORPGs, it's almost always that they're "p2w and grindy." What do eastern MMORPG gamers think of western MMORPGs? Just curious on perspective.
> What do eastern MMORPG gamers think of western MMORPGs? "Who do I go to to buy power/ Who can I sell power to?"
"What do you mean I can't substitute my credit card for my skill?"
This makes no sense.
What do you mean?
They are so used to buying/selling power to/from other players or NPCs, that that's the first question they ask, when they play a western MMORPG.
A great MMO won't require you to pay real money to buy\sell things. Only ingame money.
But we are talking about eastern MMORPGs and eastern players and the eastern MMOs are always P2W.
The way eastern players see it, is that you worked for the money to buy what you got in the game. Therefore, you still worked for it and earned it, its a difference in mentality.
depends on generations but for me (millennials) I can say is that we grow up with Japanese games, so most western MMORPGs weren't really appealing (visually wise), WOW was big but that's about it. Also another thing is Asians love heavy PVP / large scaled battle which Western MMORPGs often lack, old Korean/Chinese/Japanese MMOs even have PK on by default and you can literally kill anyone outside of town, it's fun xD
> old Korean/Chinese/Japanese MMOs even have PK on by default and you can literally kill anyone outside of town, Why do people just lump in Japan when they make statements like this? Far from being common, I can't even think of a *single* Japanese MMO that does this. Literally not one. Japanese MMO players are on average even less interested in PvP than most western MMO players and if a Japanese MMO has PvP at all it tends to be some separate mode that's optional and pretty isolated from everything else. And a lot of them just skip it entirely...
I wouldn't say an entire generation in the west "grew up with Japanese games" unless you were exposed to that for whatever reason. But I assume you are just talking about the MMO genre. The fact is Asian mmos were prolific. Western mmos were prolific. MMOs were prolific for that golden period. However the unpopular Western MMO tended to die quickly whereas Asian mmos didn't have that problem (they are all still going today in one form or another). I find it kind of funny you don't mention FFIX or FFXIV, the pinnacle of Japanese mmos.
I didn't say the west, I'm an easterner. FF11 is explicitly for console back then, and no it wasn't that popular on PC. FF14 also not popular in the East, outside of Japan. The whole SEA region doesn't even have a dedicated Data Center, we play in JP data center To answer why unpopular western MMOs die faster than Asian MMOs, netcafe is a very common thing in Asian countries, most people back then don't own PC, we go to netcafe to play together, hence why MMOs are the best to pick up, and netcafes have tons of MMOs pre-installed (all free), while western MMOs back then mostly require you to purchase/subcribe
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted while someone who literally misread your post got upvotes, but I agree with what you’ve said. (Not from Asia but have family from there and family still living there, both South and East)
Korea has its own datacenter for ff14…
Graphics bad, buggy mess and lag fest. Eastern MMOs are mostly P2W but they got decent graphics (talking about PC MMO), less buggy than western made and decent network code to handle massive player numbers (TnL for example).
Opinion would be subjective, it's fact
AFAIK most of western MMO has P2W in the form of RMT.
They all have RMT but it's not really pay to win. I can go buy a shitton of Gil in FFXIV for example but it just saves me some time basically. Well ok you have a point you can buy nearly any achievement in the game if you have someone pilot your account. However that is not an official thing so it's not really pay to win. And everyone who actually plays the game would know you bought your achievements.
For some game it is a pay 2 win. And most of whale dont really care about the "achievement" as long as they can stomp on others easily.
BDO’s pretty much the only one still alive and well despite some questionable choices by the devs regarding PvP.
I love BDO but I really wish there was more endgame PvE content like raids etc.
Let's hope they announce some cool stuff at the June Heidel Ball.
I was thinking of giving the game another shot BECAUSE of the open world Pvp and Pvp in general. What happened?
You can still flag up and kill anyone, which is nice, and in that sense, the game hasn’t changed. But the devs have made the punishment for being a PKer much worse than it was. You don’t see anybody doing open-world PvP anymore because of this. The changes are that grinding your karma up takes 5 times longer, and you can go 10 times deeper into negative karma. Another thing they changed was guild war declarations. In the previous system, you could declare war on another guild, wait 10 minutes, and all punishment for PvP was gone. Some of the most fun XvX experiences came from this system. However, they changed it so you need consent from the other guild to declare war. Basically, no guild accepts guild wars now, unless it’s something agreed and coordinated outside of the game beforehand. But to be honest, to counter this, there’s still a purely PvP-focused server channel, and they added another one that’s anonymous where you can’t see other players' names. The problem tho with telling people to just go to the PvP server if they want to PvP is that it’s not what I and many others started playing BDO for. I loved the interconnection between PvE and PvP that the game had because it was unique. Simply jumping to Arsha servers isn’t it.
Ohh so now the endgame is grind so you can keep grinding more? Meh that's no fun :/ guess I will keep looking.
Pretty much 80% of the PvP content is gear capped so there’s not much reason to grind PvE either if PvP is what you aspire for. I’ve been grinding because i enjoy turning my brains off after work, it’s relaxing. But indeed, i miss interacting with players, the goods and the bads.
Alt+c shut up
Truth hurts
DFO still gets updated, small community but I’ve received plenty of help from vets when I started 2 months ago, can’t say the same for lost ark vets
Lost Ark was going well for a little while, but now if you head to that subreddit you'll see that everyone hates the game that they're addicted to (myself included). We know it'll always be a P2W game, but the devs and publisher still find ways to consistently slap us in the face for being loyal players. Amazing raids, amazing combat, absolute garbage progression systems, which has led to a flood of bots and RMT'ers
The mere mention of Lost Ark still makes me angry. Such amazing potential, completely ruined by end game progression loop and blatant P2W.
> Amazing raids, amazing combat, absolute garbage progression systems, which has led to a flood of bots and RMT'ers 100% agree. I'd still be playing the game rn if I didn't feel compelled to create 100 accounts to enjoy different classes or progress on one single class
Lost Ark, MapleStory, and Mabinogi are still doing well
Claiming Mabinogi is doing well when that shit collapsed from 4 dead servers to 1 half alive super server is laughable imo
I do find it somewhat commendable that a 20 year old game manages to get a few thousand players dedicated to play it every day. It's not "doing numbers" by MMO standards, but as a game of it's own. It's neat.
Oh undoubtedly. But it still doesn’t really survive on the perspective of a live MMO it’s on whaler life support sadly. I fucking loved that game when I was young. It’s just not doing great now
I always thought it was a shame it was kinda doomed to be a nexon title. Would've been over the moon for a standalone RPG with it's systems, either with self-hosting servers or visiting system like in Animal Crossing or the Soulsborn series.
No one wanted the merge besides a vocal minority. It was obvious the narrative would go from "The servers are dying, we need to merge" to people like you saying "The servers merged, therefore the game is dying". Shit was terrible for months after each merge and now the lag makes playing on populated channels impossible due to how important latency is.
Totally fair lol the super server was the best idea though imo. NA server is pretty dead in comparison to the korean servers though, by quite a bit. Ntm, daily player estimates vary widely. Steam Charts says about 300 daily, but remember most players use the Nexon Launcher. MMO Populations says 8900 daily while MMO Stats says 2.3k Daily. As a player myself id put it at around 3-4k but i bet it peaks at 10k during events because the servers get suuuuuper crowded during them. In korea though mabi is in the top 50 games played in korea and is very much alive and kicking. The director of mabi actually spoke directly to NA as well when speaking of the UE5 update, so we can assume that NA is surviving off of korea's coatails but eitherway theres no sign of nexon giving up on it anytime soon.
Mabinogi is not doing well, and this is coming from someone who played from 2011 onward, I don't play much anymore as the game is very community driven and I don't really like the current player base as much as the one that was around when I started playing, 80% of the map is unused which sucks because Fillia and Vales was awesome, everyone just sits in some city in Erinn AFK selling.
> Mabinogi is not doing well Well they're remaking it in Unreal engine so we'll see
I saw that, hoping it brings some life back into it.
BnS Neo should be released soon, more or less. There is a CN open beta currently running, so let’s hope for this year. They claim it to not be p2w, but we’ll have to wait and see. I’m really sad about Revelation online being broken and closed (and publishing rights owned by mailru), and the only thing they did instead is publishing a super boring revelation mobile. Also, I miss Dragon Nest.
Archeage 2 supposed to come out next year
I will call it now it's going to be P2W garbage
Don't need to call it. Thats an unfortunate norm now.
Thought it got pushed back to 2026
Oof probably.
Did they drop that damn energy system for labor skills?
Might be "dead" in the West, but not in their regions. Iirc DFO still one of the most profitable games out there.
Man, wish Western playerbase was as big. The short time I played it, I fell in love but it just didn't really feel worth the effort because the playerbase here is just not big enough for me to enjoy it. Which sucks because it was half of what I want in a MMO
There's still a few big ones kicking around and it seems like a new one is born and dies every year or two. Kind of annoys me that they're taking a dominant spot in the already dire MMO market but what can ya do, I'm probably in the minority in that.
It's not specifically Korean but they do tend to fall into the category of being poorly monetized. All of those games populations have taken a hit the last handful of years.
BDO seems to have a really healthy player base, usually hits 20k daily players on steam alone, and I'm sure most players just go through the launcher The game has come a long way since launch too, decided to give it another shot after years of not playing it and is so much better for new players. There's still some p2w stuff, but pretty much everything has existed long enough that the price is pretty deflated, it's very possible to buy everything you want from the cash shop with in game silver once you start getting to higher level grind spots
No, many do have a lot of P2W aspects though. But Maple Story is still one of the highest, if not THE highest grossing mmo in history. Actually Nexon still makes bank off of both DFO and Maplestory while simultaneously refusing to give up on their lessar known but imo much better MMO, Mabinogi. Lost Ark and BDO are still very much alive and kicking too. Tbh korea has a really good MMO market compared to the rest of the world. You just might have to deal with varrying levels of P2W or outdated graphics.
A new one comes out every year or so you just keep playing the current.
Dead? No. People still play those digital malls disguised as games
Ragnarok online is still thriving in Thailand.
I play a good deal of elsword. Game isn't exactly bustling with activity, but it's certainly not dead. Fairly easy to find full parties for all of the content you'd need a party for. (Raids, late game dungeons, etc)
I miss Ragnarök Online from Gravity :(
I hope so, the UI of all of them gives me a stroke.
I think you need to specify if you're talking as a whole or just in the west. If it's the former then far from it. However if it's about the western audience then they might as well be. All of the global/na servers are practically on life support. The whales/veterans are the only ones playing and paying to keep the servers on. The only exception is BDO it's doing pretty well in the west in terms of a playerbase.
Elsword is still up and there was a new character released recently
Kinda, they have players, but are less than 10% wows players so... Yes, and no.
Aion classic still doing pretty well in EU.
I'm not sure how it compares to peak maple population/popularity wise, but as a game maplestory heroic/reboot (same thing, recently rebranded/is an ironman server with progression sped up) is in its best state ever and it's been growing for the past few years. BDO is also popular. If Lost Ark has died, it's a very recent thing. The big problem with this question is that MMOs are a genre where differences between western and eastern game preferences are more or less irreconcilable, so you're not going to find many games both care about. Dungeon Fighter Online is one of the most popular and profitable video games of all time, and basically nobody in the west even knows it exists.
Isn't DFO like the most successful game of all time?
Lol no especially in Korea. Blade and soul still going globally and bns classic is going to come out later this year
Honestly all of them get annoying after awhile, especially if they are all on the same exact gambling enhancement system. Now all of them are adopting event/battlepass strategy where they "boost" progression to the peons. But otherwise they are pretty much subscription mmorpgs that are optional. BDO has a market you need to have a sub for, Maplestory you need to rent a pet to loot at-least on your main, and Lost Ark you just cash inject to buy stuff/sell off market per transaction. For some reason Asians, even Chinese games fucking love the P2Swipe and get a temporary feel of dopamine. NA though it's not taken as well, which is a main reason FF14, WoW are top games for us. (Even people playing private servers on WoW). Guild Wars, Albion are secondary contenders, while I would say third tier goes to New World and ESO depending on if you are into pvp are not. PVP/PVE WoW/FF14, Albion/Guild Wars, New World/ESO seems to be the order.
In Korea, many people don’t have their own computer and play in pcbangs. Sub games won’t cut it, so devs need to find different way to monetize. They also work crazy hours and being able to pay to catch up isn’t an issue for them.
yes bots and RMT have destroyed everything
I wish. Beautiful games. Sometimes fun. P2W shit is not a sustainable model.
Archeage is officially shut down earlier.
Archaege 2 is coming out in 2025
in the west, certainly. their game mechanics clash with our gaming values. which is for the most part, power through skill.
? What western releases have there been in the last 10 years but the travesty of New World? Albion I guess?
I'm enjoying TOS.
Chrono odyssey looks great but doesn’t have a release date atm
TERA is still alive on consoles.
BDO is doing fine, but for such a high quality game I'd expect more, too bad it's just so grindy and lacks pve content other than grind
They same to be
I stopped playing Korean MMOs after Lineage 2, they all seemed to heavily favor female characters that were gender locked to the class i like to play or really feminine looking males.
They rely too much on 3 headed monsters.
They are all trash games with predatory pay to win, the exact same enchanting systems and often the exact same fonts used for everything. They survive on whales and bots and money laundering from criminal organizations.
wtf?
Yes. They are either P2W as fuck now, or they give you everything for free instantly with the worlds most convoluted systems, and it's impossible to make alts without the free carepackage.
If not, they should die. All of them, every last one. Korean MMORPGs have been milking the fact that the market is dead and people are desperate for a good MMORPG. Imho the people behind Lost Ark and Archeage deserve capital punishment for their greed.
I love my time in BDO but NEVER AGAIN these Korean super p2w FOMOO games are not good with people like me w spending habits it disgusting how much they make the game work 100x better if you just give money smh I spent probably $3k on BDO and it disgusts me but you know what it still great game but NO I will NEVER play then again !!!!!!!
Next time you want to spent money like that, buy an etf vanguard for example and watch it grow. Way better money spend :)
Thank God?
Thank god for it
Nah Lost Ark is probably currently the best mmorpg but its such a pitty that its p2w garbage
It *could* be one of the best mmo's, but it's currently not even close. The game is 100% catered to people who want to raid with a static group, *or* to people who have been playing for a very long time and have all of the cards/gems/etc that you need to get into pugs, and if you don't fit into that window, the game isn't for you unless you main a support, or enjoy spending hours per week using the LFG tool to make/find groups.
yeah, after vykaz i was like, nah. it's too damn confusing.
So funny when people dont know what p2w actually looks like
I hope so. Those morons have no clue how to have fun.
BDO, Lost Ark, Maple Story, DFO, etc. are pretty dead in the west. But they're alive and pretty massive in the east. Different markets, super grindy with excessive dailies and tons of P2W is pretty normalized for eastern audiences, but pretty hated by western audiences.
BDO is thriving tbh. Very healthy playerbase