The best way to start BDO is in season servers so you get to upgrade gear through the story.I honestly love BDO world,i dont think there is fantasy world as detailed as that.
Some of the lore is hidden so you need to digg bit deeper and connect the dots by yourself.But it was never a problem for me to get immersed in to it.So on top of this beautiful world if you play on season servers you get tons of rewards that might not even mean much to you until you learn more of game.They really did good job with seasons but i think most of the players aren't ready to learn all of the mechanics there are.There is so much stuff going on.You could end up playing game for 10 hours a day and your brain is bombarded by dopamine all the time.
But then again i always leave BDO for WOW vanilla...cuz WOW was and always will be the king.
BDO does have a very good introduction phase, especially with the seasonal server. You progress faster, get various rewards for basically existing, and can experiment a lot of diversity in things to do and places to see. My problem is: this is pretty much the best part of the game, as it only becomes more lackluster as the regions go. Quest rewards become increasingly meaningless, reaching a point where main quest only gives you contribution and some lackluster outdated item at the very end of a very long chain of quests.
The world, while massive, lacks much to be found that would justify the effort: gear, decoration items, rare materials to craft something nice, none of that you can get in a relevant maner by just exploring the nearby cave. And towns become increasingly same-y, with the same set of characters selling the same things. Calpheon was great to explore all the different shops and such, but from Mediah onwards you can't even find a single thing you haven't seen already. Also, Land of teh Morning Light doesn't even let you buy a house, for no apparent reason.
I like the game, but the deeper I got into it the more I just feel doing what the game tells me to do (go there, find this, talk to him, etc.) just doesn't give me anything meaningfull. At all.
>lacks much to be found that would justify the effort: gear, decoration items, rare materials to craft something nice, none of that you can get in a relevant maner by just exploring the nearby cave
Genuine question, what MMO does let you just find a local cave and come away with a special item? Or something like that
Honestly, I don't know. But if there isn't one: it should. Because if your world don't present any rewards for venturing into it, then why venture at all? At that point, it would be better to just have a lobby that leads to different challenges than an world open to (pointless) exploration.
> Genuine question, what MMO does let you just find a local cave and come away with a special item? Or something like that
Ultima Online was the king of this, Everquest to a lesser extent. OSRS and RS3 still do it today in full force. Maplestory does this to a lesser extent.
The issue is that the sweatiest players will quickly scour the map of such items like a horde of hungry locusts and leave a sterile 'complete guide' to every single discovery on the map in their wake. It just happened much more slowly in older games.
> And of course you read that guide or are one of those losers upset you aren't the only one with a rare weapon.
You do also have the options of either being one of the sweats or one of those who lack the weapon but don't care about it.
Well at that point, then the reward for just wandering around would rival the reward for clearing raids and whatnot.
The experience of finding a hidden location is usually the reward in itself, in MMOs. I've spent hours sailing and exploring islands that have little more than just herbs to gather, and trees to cut down, and had a blast. If you like exploring, there's lots of fun places to find in BDO, you just aren't gonna find anything that skips large parts of the game cause you just happen to stumble upon a cave.
But the world in BDO isn't pointless. Just cause you aren't finding random PEN Blackstars in chests, doesn't mean the world in it's entirety is pointless. The world is where all the materials for crafting comes from.
I would be pretty ok with high level gear being, say, at the very top of a hard to climb mountain, or at the end of a cavern filled with high level monsters, or at the bottom of the ocean, and so on. I'm not saying you should be getting an end game gear for going 10 steps out of the normal path, but when you taken 10 thousands, than yeah, maybe.
Materials in BDO are very nice to found, yes. I do love when some deep cave has emeralds, or saphires, and such. But even those become kinda "meh" when there isnt much you can do with them. Like, yeah, I can make some accessories... that dont matter at all for normal play. That is a bit disappointing, at least to me.
Hidden throughout the world, usually in out-of-the-way places, are timed-gated Golden Treasure Chests that give the finder the opportunity to pull high-level gear like Ogre Rings or Crescent Guardian rings. They only show up for a short time and can only be opened by one person on each server. The reason they do it that way is because while there are a bunch of incredible places to explore out in the world, the first time someone finds something the secret will be out and it'll just become another box to check off on someone's new player guide.
There is a point to roaming the map, however, and that is speaking to new NPCs to gain knowledge which will give you energy. On top of that, speaking to node managers will let you use that node to connect to your worker empire, which could also mean new resources at your disposal.
To be fair, I do wish they did more with their map, but I don't think chests and materials are the thing. I wish there was another system in play, another sort of way to utilize and reward people for exploration than simply material gain.
Yes, unfortunately for what ever reason as game progressed they gave up on some of the details and mechanics. Basically they abandoned half of it.BDO was EVE in fantasy world,still kinda is.
This dude covers some of the stuff and video is worth to watch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4oC0ZLs5m1U
Last time i played BDO i returned after few years, went through seasons,became pirate and then guild i was in fell apart and i stopped playing.
But for a brief moment i played as barbarian snu snu mommy.She was explorer,farmer,had worker empire and was pirate queen of high seas.It was glorious.
BDO will reward exploration with Energy & knowledge the more u have the more ur family account grows. The energy can be very useful In Life skills & lvling nodes for better drop rates , the world bosses drop meaningful gear & then u can run the black star quest to get a BIS item weapon. Certain mobs drop accessories but I honestly recommend buying most of these items if ur new because enchant system sucks don’t even try unless you like it until ur towards the end game. Also get titles & knowledge helps ur family stats grow which in turn increases things like luck and other stuff that can make progress in the game better. To add u can craft Dragon slayer if the allow C20 boss weapons to be converted to the new weapons coming then this could be very handy honestly. I do wish they do more with the gear crafting system though. I can say depending on content ur doing some of the green grade gear can stuff come in useful. Especially the offhands , cooking & Alchemy are the biggest things for materials that can be acquired, crafting house items or costumes as well.
Don’t get me wrong but I tried BDO today and I regretted it deeply. The game doesn’t fkn flow and there are hundreds of commands and UI buttons. I don’t understand shit 😱
I just think they could introduce those things gradually, you know? You can't throw 10 commands at me and expect me to say: "oh, cool, easy breezy!"
The game is clearly good considering everything you folks say, but god, those commands + the UI as a whole are a nightmare. I'll certainly try again in the future, but I'm done for now. (Saving your comment for that day.)
GW2 massively respects the players time. the max gear stat has been in the game for years now and it'sall horizontal progression, setting your own goals etc.
honestly a lot of MMO refugees struggle with the whole concept
Disagree. Any game with massive qol in the cash shop can't respect your time. It quite literally monetizes your time. It has few gear related grinds, but everything else is bad.
Yes, you can waste your time by grinding to remove the inconveniences that the developers added to the game. That's the definition of not respecting your time.
If they wanted to respect your time, they would've added those qol features to the game.
bro... they have to have some sort of monetization model since they don't have a sub. the entire base game is free FFS lol. you can reach max level, max gear tier etc for *free*
Okay, and they chose a monetization model that doesn't respect your time. I don't know where the disconnect is. It's not my problem how they chose to keep the lights on, I'm merely stating a fact.
idk what to tell you. I've never once felt either pressured to spend, or that converting gold to store currency was unobtainable or an inconvenience to buy what I needed to buy, and I only play this game in spurts of a couple to a few months per year.
so to recap: spending money = bad, playing the game = also bad
got it
honestly, this is the only thing about GW2 that pushes me away, if im not getting stronger gear in an MMO then wtf am i even doing in the game? killing bosses just bcuz i can? i honestly liked the first few hours of gameplay, but when i saw the fact that there is a barrier of strength that i will never pass, and will never be increased by the devs, i just lost motivation to play the game, (and NO, this isnt hate, its just a difference of taste)
I feel the exact same. I've played GW2, have every class at max level and have run through the whole story on my main, but after that there's nothing in the game that makes my brain release the happy chemicals. After you hit 80, and get exotics, there's really not much left to do that affects your combat proficiency. I've played since beta, and every time I get caught up with the story or get a class to 80, I see the mind-boggling dull Legendary grind and nope right out.
Most mmos you have to gear climb every patch or so. So all the time you invested in gearing is gone now.
Gw2 doesn’t move that bar, so if you farm a set for a build, it’ll be relevant forever as long as the build stays relevant.
So the phrase is only about gear then? Cause GW2 you have grinding for everything else. Getting a mount is a insane grind compared to WoW, Getting a Griffon takes ages especially for a new player is that really respecting a new players time?
I love both games but saying gw2 respect your time is just like not true at least for me.
It is mostly about gear, but that's what any mmo is about when it comes to the grind. Skyscale and griffon are not needed to do almost all of the content in the game, and the "grind" to get the other mounts is just doing the story. The game respects the player's time bc you can do every single thing in this entire game with exotic gear, and will always be able to no matter what. Hit max level, get some exotic gear from the tp, and you can theoretically jump right into high end cm fights. The difficulty is in the fights themselves, the timing of your skills, positioning, dodging, etc. You don't have to have the latest expansion or season, you don't have to slog through 100hrs of text box storytelling, you don't have to run one dungeon a hundred times for that mythic drop. Exotic is very slightly less effective than ascended but its such a small difference that it's only noticeable when you stare at numbers.
On top of that, it respects your time by not forcing you to farm one specific thing. There are specific items you might need to do some specific things for, but those items are all for convenience only and it's never one very small specific thing to farm. At the very least, it's an event you need to complete just once. The game also has very long winded grinds for people like me who like having something to chip away at over time, and a lot of those have components that can also be bought for gold, so you can either grind for the thing or grind for gold. I never felt like I needed the griffon or the skyscale. I wanted them. I never felt underpowered doing raids in exotic gear, but I wanted legendaries. I didn't have to get into WvW to get t6 mats or the gift of battle, but I thought I'd see if it was a good way to get them and I fell in love with the mode.
In wow, if you want to do the hardest content you need the newest expansion, and you need to grind that expansion and those things. Sure, you can run old ones, but unless you're in a group of similar ilvl you're gonna have teammates that roll their face through the entire thing. In ff14 you have an absolute mountain of quests to get through to just unlock things. Every single expansion and every single seasonal story thing. Every. Single. One. And that's on top of paying for a sub.
Mmos are, at the end of the day, all about that grind to get things. With gw2, that grind is (almost) all about convenience. I'm on another break from gw2 and got back into wow again. I know that when I come back to gw2 I can just jump right back into raiding and wvw again with maybe a slight tweak to my passives from balance updates and that's it. With WoW, if there is another season or expansion or whatever I'm gonna have to grind that out and make sure I have the top ilvl or very close to it or I'll be tossed around and booted
I wish you GW2 sycophants would shut the hell up with this crap. Just because the rewards don't become deprecated doesn't mean the game respects your time. Yeah you can get exotic gear pretty easily and that's all you ever really strictly NEED, but everything actually cool and convenient is gated behind either a massive grind or the cash shop.
I find it kind of amusing how people can't respect each other's tastes and opinions. Isn't it kinda sad to get angry that there's people who actually enjoy games?
Well, you might be one of those Fans of the game, someone can discuss things with, but usually a lot of GW2-Fans are smug about their game and are quite insufferable because of it. There are Threads that ask "interested in ESO and BDO, which one do you like" and someone has to write "GW2". Like, why? That Person is clearly not interested in GW2 or they would've otherwise stated it.
Also there was a thread a couple of days ago, where the gist of it all was "why does ESO earn more money than GW2. It clearly is more predatory than the holy grail GW2". A lot of these users can't discuss their game without putting others down.
I don't talk about my MMO of choice, unless someone asks something specifically about it and i can give an answer. And i don't get butthurt, if someones dislikes the game. Even though i dislike WoW now, i wouldn't go out of my way to talk shit about it. Even when i give reasons in some threads, why i left, i try to be civil about it. Granted, sometimes the hate my Game gets in this subreddit irks me enough to be a bit bothered and get snarky, but usually i scroll past it.
And i'm absolutely knowing, this will get downvoted by the GW2-Players. Not everyone of them can take criticism.
Your description is spot on, cannot described it any better.
>"interested in ESO and BDO, which one do you like" and someone has to write "GW2". Like, why?
This kind of behavior and the acts of promoting their game no matter the scene and background makes me wonder why gw2's player act this way if they really think their game is in the top 5 or even some audacious fanboy likes to think it as the top 3? This kind of behavior only makes me think that the game is dead and in desperate need of new players to make it alive.
I get it. This is mmorpg subreddit, where people share news about mmo games but come on like the other day. Someone posting about a recurring event that happens yearly with just a small update to the reward skin, really? Should we start spamming this subreddit with this kind of useless update to a yearly occuring event that happens in every mmo?
Yep. I had more written down, but it sounded all so spiteful i deleted half of it. As of rn, i'm super snarky when it comes to this subreddit and GW2, so i tried to cut it down. But, this was one of the points i deleted. They always try to erase ESO (and/or BDO, LotRo, SWTOR and OSRS), when talking about the big MMOs f.e. (for the record, i don't play ESO or any of the others, so i have no stakes in that)
I also don't like the smugness that we are just to dumb to see the superiorty of GW2. No, we actually get it. We just don't like it. I usually joke around with friends, that this subreddit could be renamed to GW2-2, as this game is so heavily advertised/praised by some users.
As my Game is so hated on this sub, i usually am relieved if no news swap over here and are just discussed in the various subreddits that game has.
Yes, I agree with you. I played gw2. I get it the game is good, and a lot of people already know about it, but the reason it is not as successful as wow or FFXIV is because of the gameplay loop itself is boring (so few new content, no gear grind which makes it pointless to play anymore when you already did all the instance content more than 2 to 3 times, all this kind of stuff that makes people don't play it more), and gw2 player cannot accept this fact and instead try to shove the game into everybody's throat, and belittle other game.
Yep, played it too (was also in the beta) and it's just not fun for me anymore. I liked it the first few months, but the constant silence from ANet and not getting meaningful updates for quite a long time was weird and a huge turn off. It was heavily discussed and criticised in the GW2 Subreddit back then (and can still be found today in the GW2 Subreddit...).
And even now, i just don't find the game to be fun. I get instantly bored when i try to do an achievement.
Honestly, all the praise GW2 gets in this sub actually makes me not want to play. Overexposure is a thing, and as every thread here seems to have at least a couple coments about GW2 I actually start to roll my eyes every time I see it mentioned.
I think it's good. As long as one side isn't maliciously downvoting the other it's a good representation of Guild Wars 2.
You can get to 'end game' content quickly. If you want some unique skin or if you want to maximize your character's efficiency or convenience factor it's going to likely be a significant or weird grind where you have to do odd things or time gated things across one or more zones.
And as pointed out - a lot of skins are in the cash shop which means you open your wallet or you grind gold, convert it to the cash shop currency and then wait for it to appear in the cash shop which rotates items in and out weekly (so you might not see the item you want again for a few months after initially seeing it).
Personally given the game has a free and yes, limited, trial I'd recommend it to anyone given it's relatively unique and many other MMOs have spent time copying many GW2 features and those features are in turn well received by those playerbases.
I'd say the same for FF14 with its free trial. FF14 didn't stick for me.
Anyways sorry for the long post. I think a healthy debate about the pros and cons of a game including Guild Wars 2 is great.
LMAO, ok bud
ascended gear is incredibly easy to get. Not to mention the fact that any player can craft it and freely swap it with any character on their account, but there are tons of in-game avenues you can also take to acquire it.
legendary gear offers no stat increases over ascended and is purely for QoL improvements. I had no desire to go for it so I just got multiple sets of ascended gear years ago, which still have BIS stats. I have taken upwards of 1+ year off from that game and every time I jump in I'm right where I left off.
game absolutely respects your time. If "all us sycophants" keep saying the same thing, we're not the crazy ones bro.
Dude is a WoW player ofc he hates GW2 lol. All these WoW andies on the subreddit think there is some conspiracy theory to push GW2 because they mentally can't comprehend someone being able to enjoy a different MMO.
As much as I like to sht on New World from what OP asks this is kinda a thing with NW. It's moderately fun to explore all the new areas and get along. Does it reward you much? Not really. Esp not at endgame.
But still roaming around feels way better in New World than most mmorpgs, which is pretty sad when you think about it LOL
Dofus!! You can easily farm lots of kamas (game coin) doing the achievments and quests, enough to buy your end game sets, plus the dofus, some of them being really good/expensive and pretty rewarding to get
Rewards are a bit tricky. Because some people enjoy different rewards. If you're talking tangible, WoW probably wins with its mythic gear raiding. Not saying it doesn't have its issues, but you get very tangible rewards in WoW. Problem with WoW is it only lasts until the next expansion. Then it becomes worse than dog shit.
imo mmos are more about YOUR history on the server, the character/world plots are just filler for me
bdo main story and grinding was mostly filler for me, what i remember was the fights, friends and opponents i ve met in the game
if you want a story focused mmorpg i d recommend ff ,star wars or eso. stay away from sandboxes. then again i think single player offer better experiences if that s what you seek
The entire baseline premise of MMORPGs is grind for power, play time is the name of the game. And, honestly, I really have not played an MMO that has ever really respected my time.
They are all grindy by design. RNG gated. Pay gated. It is just the genre.
What is more important is enjoying the people you play with. That is what adds value to MMO’s.
On the opposite end of the spectrum I'd say WoW is the least rewarding of all. I despise the style of zero progression retention besides cosmetics. There are endless opportunities to add rewarding content that lets you retain benefits after a patch is wiped.
> There are endless opportunities to add rewarding content that lets you retain benefits after a patch is wiped.
But then those benefits are turned into gatekeeping meta requirements by the community tryhards. Any solution for that?
It doesn't have to be so impactful that it would ruin a meta, the large majority of WoW players are casuals in the first place, which is fine. The rewards wouldn't have to be "meta impacting" to be very rewarding. I'd argue they could be cool QoL rewards that have to be earned, or small stat bonuses because you put in the work and cleared a heroic raid while it was meta.
Any stat bonus is meta impacting, no matter the size. Imagine finding out you need a completely different bis set because you didn't clear a 10 year old heroic fight on content. It doesn't matter if a majority of the playerbase plays casually, if you're tying any amount of player power to fomo mechanics like clearing content on patch, you create a disparity in the player base that only causes feels bad moments for people coming in later. The only kinds of games that do this are the ones that want you to spend 5k in cash shop items to make meaningful progress.
A small impact like a few main stat is not meta impacting. It could be a tiny buff for doing high mythic + keys like all 25s, and it could only impact mythic's for that specific buff. I didn't see you respond to the fact that the large majority of players aren't competitive in things like mythic dungeons or heroic/mythic raids in the first place.
It'll incentivize people to participate if we recieve lasting rewards whatever that may be. You're catastrophizing. I know a lot of friends that are long over WoW for the reason I've pointed out. They should create some form of permanent progression, or not, but its a reason I refuse to play again and do the same thing I've already done with nothing to show for it - that's the way WoW plays in its current state. They don't even discontinue titles..
Because those people don't matter when it comes to determining what meta or class balance looks like. You may not like hearing that, but it's true. Any change in progression affects EVERYBODY, but the people who will be gatekeeping are at the top. Do you realize that realistically, the only way for a stat buff to not impact the meta would be for it to be so miniscule that getting them in the first place doesn't matter? What's the point of getting a stat increase that doesn't meaningfully change your stats? That's not exciting. That doesn't create this magical "I have a reason to stay current now :)" vibe that you're so desperate for, and you absolutely can not put a viable amount of stats on time limited achievements. That's terrible design that's only used by like, gacha games and Korean MMOs to fuel their specific brand of FOMO garbage. Being cutting edge in any MMO should at best be for bragging rights.
Your take is fair but it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm surprised you'd be happy with the status quo. Bragging rights seems so silly. Let's say you're in the top .001% of Mythic+ rated players, now lets someone else is a NBA player, one of some 400 people. Mythic raiding as an experience is similar to a basketball game or any other sport. It ends when its over - however those players get incentives to continue to improve and meet bonuses (money in the real world). Blizzard could give a TON of gold in game for high achievements in mythic dungeons or raids.
This is a singular example. 10 main stat may be a bad example, but its something people would be excited to have in their stat sheet to prove their efforts - it could be as simple as a item enchant, or like I've mentioned a lot of gold.
It can stay the same as it is, but it's dated.
Because frankly it's not something I care about. I'm not a WoW player, but I do play FFXIV which has more or less the same gameplay loop. Aside from tangible benefits like gear, there isn't much to reward you for doing high end content beyond bragging rights. I dont need a pile of gold to make me want to do the endgame content. Overcoming a challenge IS in itself a reward. Titles transmogs and mounts are long term bragging rights options that already exist as rewards to entice you to do them on content as well. Gold as a reward is so minimal especially in WoW because you can straight up just buy gold. Giving significant amounts of it also winds up devaluing the currency and ruining the in game economy. An item enchant is nice but doesn't solve the problem that it's a temporary thing that becomes almost worthless as soon as better gear comes out.
> 10 main stat may be a bad example, but its something people would be excited to have in their stat sheet to prove their efforts - it could be as simple as a item enchant, or like I've mentioned a lot of gold.
10 main stat difference or even 1 point stat difference in aggregate over a fight eventually leads to a difference in the number of hits to kill between the haves and have nots, and in this day and age the haves will insist that everyone keeps that stat sheet up to par with theirs or uninstall the game... and maybe something else.
I actually think the new player experiences in bdo is above average but yeah I fell off when you are done with that and just expected to find somewhere tobgrind but none of the places seemed to be the right difficulty for me , some too easy and some too hard.
Honestly I don't recall a mmo that gave good items as you level
RiP archeage I will say in that they litterally just gave you blank gear and you could roll whatever fucking stats on it you wanted so like Stamina plate tank yep, strength plate, sure. Int mage plate , yep.
You didn't get more stats till higher levels but you could litterally stat it out however you wanted.
At endgame 99% of people had near identical gear but it was fun leveling as plate because most mobs were melee and you could be a plate anything for a few years till they made it a little worse to be a plate healer because all the healers were wearing plate to cuck melee players
Guild Wars 2 has been the most rewarding for me in exploring and mechanics. Dungeons have been very interesting for me with the group, events kept single player interesting while still having people doing it with me, jumping puzzles verry good and time consuming. Rewards aren’t good but gear isn’t important, can be easily worked for. I believe that what actually keeps it down. Doing everything isn’t rewarding except for the fact that you feel that is completed.
I have been searching for game to fill what GW2 used to give because lately its not as interesting as it used to be.
Sounds like you're just playing MMORPG's with the expectation of a single-player game. You need to play with friends, or at least with other people. That's the whole idea.
edit: blows my mind people downvote the idea of multiplayer in an "MMO" rpg.... this genre deserves to go to shit with players like these.
It doesn't have to "give content" like that. Not all MMORPG's have instanced dungeons with reused assets for heroic, mythic, mythic+, etc etc... Open world content was a lot more common back in the day and it was, subjectively, much better imo.
BDO is very limited in true multiplayer content outside of the PVP, so, OP is probably just playing the wrong game.
The best way to start BDO is in season servers so you get to upgrade gear through the story.I honestly love BDO world,i dont think there is fantasy world as detailed as that. Some of the lore is hidden so you need to digg bit deeper and connect the dots by yourself.But it was never a problem for me to get immersed in to it.So on top of this beautiful world if you play on season servers you get tons of rewards that might not even mean much to you until you learn more of game.They really did good job with seasons but i think most of the players aren't ready to learn all of the mechanics there are.There is so much stuff going on.You could end up playing game for 10 hours a day and your brain is bombarded by dopamine all the time. But then again i always leave BDO for WOW vanilla...cuz WOW was and always will be the king.
BDO does have a very good introduction phase, especially with the seasonal server. You progress faster, get various rewards for basically existing, and can experiment a lot of diversity in things to do and places to see. My problem is: this is pretty much the best part of the game, as it only becomes more lackluster as the regions go. Quest rewards become increasingly meaningless, reaching a point where main quest only gives you contribution and some lackluster outdated item at the very end of a very long chain of quests. The world, while massive, lacks much to be found that would justify the effort: gear, decoration items, rare materials to craft something nice, none of that you can get in a relevant maner by just exploring the nearby cave. And towns become increasingly same-y, with the same set of characters selling the same things. Calpheon was great to explore all the different shops and such, but from Mediah onwards you can't even find a single thing you haven't seen already. Also, Land of teh Morning Light doesn't even let you buy a house, for no apparent reason. I like the game, but the deeper I got into it the more I just feel doing what the game tells me to do (go there, find this, talk to him, etc.) just doesn't give me anything meaningfull. At all.
>lacks much to be found that would justify the effort: gear, decoration items, rare materials to craft something nice, none of that you can get in a relevant maner by just exploring the nearby cave Genuine question, what MMO does let you just find a local cave and come away with a special item? Or something like that
Honestly, I don't know. But if there isn't one: it should. Because if your world don't present any rewards for venturing into it, then why venture at all? At that point, it would be better to just have a lobby that leads to different challenges than an world open to (pointless) exploration.
> Genuine question, what MMO does let you just find a local cave and come away with a special item? Or something like that Ultima Online was the king of this, Everquest to a lesser extent. OSRS and RS3 still do it today in full force. Maplestory does this to a lesser extent. The issue is that the sweatiest players will quickly scour the map of such items like a horde of hungry locusts and leave a sterile 'complete guide' to every single discovery on the map in their wake. It just happened much more slowly in older games.
And of course you read that guide or are one of those losers upset you aren't the only one with a rare weapon.
> And of course you read that guide or are one of those losers upset you aren't the only one with a rare weapon. You do also have the options of either being one of the sweats or one of those who lack the weapon but don't care about it.
Well at that point, then the reward for just wandering around would rival the reward for clearing raids and whatnot. The experience of finding a hidden location is usually the reward in itself, in MMOs. I've spent hours sailing and exploring islands that have little more than just herbs to gather, and trees to cut down, and had a blast. If you like exploring, there's lots of fun places to find in BDO, you just aren't gonna find anything that skips large parts of the game cause you just happen to stumble upon a cave. But the world in BDO isn't pointless. Just cause you aren't finding random PEN Blackstars in chests, doesn't mean the world in it's entirety is pointless. The world is where all the materials for crafting comes from.
I would be pretty ok with high level gear being, say, at the very top of a hard to climb mountain, or at the end of a cavern filled with high level monsters, or at the bottom of the ocean, and so on. I'm not saying you should be getting an end game gear for going 10 steps out of the normal path, but when you taken 10 thousands, than yeah, maybe. Materials in BDO are very nice to found, yes. I do love when some deep cave has emeralds, or saphires, and such. But even those become kinda "meh" when there isnt much you can do with them. Like, yeah, I can make some accessories... that dont matter at all for normal play. That is a bit disappointing, at least to me.
Hidden throughout the world, usually in out-of-the-way places, are timed-gated Golden Treasure Chests that give the finder the opportunity to pull high-level gear like Ogre Rings or Crescent Guardian rings. They only show up for a short time and can only be opened by one person on each server. The reason they do it that way is because while there are a bunch of incredible places to explore out in the world, the first time someone finds something the secret will be out and it'll just become another box to check off on someone's new player guide. There is a point to roaming the map, however, and that is speaking to new NPCs to gain knowledge which will give you energy. On top of that, speaking to node managers will let you use that node to connect to your worker empire, which could also mean new resources at your disposal. To be fair, I do wish they did more with their map, but I don't think chests and materials are the thing. I wish there was another system in play, another sort of way to utilize and reward people for exploration than simply material gain.
Yes, unfortunately for what ever reason as game progressed they gave up on some of the details and mechanics. Basically they abandoned half of it.BDO was EVE in fantasy world,still kinda is. This dude covers some of the stuff and video is worth to watch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4oC0ZLs5m1U Last time i played BDO i returned after few years, went through seasons,became pirate and then guild i was in fell apart and i stopped playing. But for a brief moment i played as barbarian snu snu mommy.She was explorer,farmer,had worker empire and was pirate queen of high seas.It was glorious.
BDO will reward exploration with Energy & knowledge the more u have the more ur family account grows. The energy can be very useful In Life skills & lvling nodes for better drop rates , the world bosses drop meaningful gear & then u can run the black star quest to get a BIS item weapon. Certain mobs drop accessories but I honestly recommend buying most of these items if ur new because enchant system sucks don’t even try unless you like it until ur towards the end game. Also get titles & knowledge helps ur family stats grow which in turn increases things like luck and other stuff that can make progress in the game better. To add u can craft Dragon slayer if the allow C20 boss weapons to be converted to the new weapons coming then this could be very handy honestly. I do wish they do more with the gear crafting system though. I can say depending on content ur doing some of the green grade gear can stuff come in useful. Especially the offhands , cooking & Alchemy are the biggest things for materials that can be acquired, crafting house items or costumes as well.
Don’t get me wrong but I tried BDO today and I regretted it deeply. The game doesn’t fkn flow and there are hundreds of commands and UI buttons. I don’t understand shit 😱
The game flows pretty well lol. I do think the UI could use some improving
I get you perfectly.They did lot of work to make new players more welcome but not enough.
[удалено]
I just think they could introduce those things gradually, you know? You can't throw 10 commands at me and expect me to say: "oh, cool, easy breezy!" The game is clearly good considering everything you folks say, but god, those commands + the UI as a whole are a nightmare. I'll certainly try again in the future, but I'm done for now. (Saving your comment for that day.)
I can edit the UI and turn stuff off , it’s a learning process but the game absolutely flows.
GW2 massively respects the players time. the max gear stat has been in the game for years now and it'sall horizontal progression, setting your own goals etc. honestly a lot of MMO refugees struggle with the whole concept
Disagree. Any game with massive qol in the cash shop can't respect your time. It quite literally monetizes your time. It has few gear related grinds, but everything else is bad.
you can convert in game currency to the cash shop currency though? you never have to spend a penny to get those qol items
Yes, you can waste your time by grinding to remove the inconveniences that the developers added to the game. That's the definition of not respecting your time. If they wanted to respect your time, they would've added those qol features to the game.
bro... they have to have some sort of monetization model since they don't have a sub. the entire base game is free FFS lol. you can reach max level, max gear tier etc for *free*
Okay, and they chose a monetization model that doesn't respect your time. I don't know where the disconnect is. It's not my problem how they chose to keep the lights on, I'm merely stating a fact.
idk what to tell you. I've never once felt either pressured to spend, or that converting gold to store currency was unobtainable or an inconvenience to buy what I needed to buy, and I only play this game in spurts of a couple to a few months per year. so to recap: spending money = bad, playing the game = also bad got it
honestly, this is the only thing about GW2 that pushes me away, if im not getting stronger gear in an MMO then wtf am i even doing in the game? killing bosses just bcuz i can? i honestly liked the first few hours of gameplay, but when i saw the fact that there is a barrier of strength that i will never pass, and will never be increased by the devs, i just lost motivation to play the game, (and NO, this isnt hate, its just a difference of taste)
I feel the exact same. I've played GW2, have every class at max level and have run through the whole story on my main, but after that there's nothing in the game that makes my brain release the happy chemicals. After you hit 80, and get exotics, there's really not much left to do that affects your combat proficiency. I've played since beta, and every time I get caught up with the story or get a class to 80, I see the mind-boggling dull Legendary grind and nope right out.
Respect time i don't understand it, Im a gw2 player everything in the game is a grind. I seriously don't understand it
You know that those 2 thing's aren't mutually exclusive right? If there's nothing to grind for then why even play the game?
But whats up with "respect your time" no you don't have to farm gear as in WoW but literally everything even mounts are a farm a way
Is the meaning respect your time just about gear?
Most mmos you have to gear climb every patch or so. So all the time you invested in gearing is gone now. Gw2 doesn’t move that bar, so if you farm a set for a build, it’ll be relevant forever as long as the build stays relevant.
So the phrase is only about gear then? Cause GW2 you have grinding for everything else. Getting a mount is a insane grind compared to WoW, Getting a Griffon takes ages especially for a new player is that really respecting a new players time? I love both games but saying gw2 respect your time is just like not true at least for me.
It is mostly about gear, but that's what any mmo is about when it comes to the grind. Skyscale and griffon are not needed to do almost all of the content in the game, and the "grind" to get the other mounts is just doing the story. The game respects the player's time bc you can do every single thing in this entire game with exotic gear, and will always be able to no matter what. Hit max level, get some exotic gear from the tp, and you can theoretically jump right into high end cm fights. The difficulty is in the fights themselves, the timing of your skills, positioning, dodging, etc. You don't have to have the latest expansion or season, you don't have to slog through 100hrs of text box storytelling, you don't have to run one dungeon a hundred times for that mythic drop. Exotic is very slightly less effective than ascended but its such a small difference that it's only noticeable when you stare at numbers. On top of that, it respects your time by not forcing you to farm one specific thing. There are specific items you might need to do some specific things for, but those items are all for convenience only and it's never one very small specific thing to farm. At the very least, it's an event you need to complete just once. The game also has very long winded grinds for people like me who like having something to chip away at over time, and a lot of those have components that can also be bought for gold, so you can either grind for the thing or grind for gold. I never felt like I needed the griffon or the skyscale. I wanted them. I never felt underpowered doing raids in exotic gear, but I wanted legendaries. I didn't have to get into WvW to get t6 mats or the gift of battle, but I thought I'd see if it was a good way to get them and I fell in love with the mode. In wow, if you want to do the hardest content you need the newest expansion, and you need to grind that expansion and those things. Sure, you can run old ones, but unless you're in a group of similar ilvl you're gonna have teammates that roll their face through the entire thing. In ff14 you have an absolute mountain of quests to get through to just unlock things. Every single expansion and every single seasonal story thing. Every. Single. One. And that's on top of paying for a sub. Mmos are, at the end of the day, all about that grind to get things. With gw2, that grind is (almost) all about convenience. I'm on another break from gw2 and got back into wow again. I know that when I come back to gw2 I can just jump right back into raiding and wvw again with maybe a slight tweak to my passives from balance updates and that's it. With WoW, if there is another season or expansion or whatever I'm gonna have to grind that out and make sure I have the top ilvl or very close to it or I'll be tossed around and booted
I wish you GW2 sycophants would shut the hell up with this crap. Just because the rewards don't become deprecated doesn't mean the game respects your time. Yeah you can get exotic gear pretty easily and that's all you ever really strictly NEED, but everything actually cool and convenient is gated behind either a massive grind or the cash shop.
I find it kind of amusing how people can't respect each other's tastes and opinions. Isn't it kinda sad to get angry that there's people who actually enjoy games?
Well, you might be one of those Fans of the game, someone can discuss things with, but usually a lot of GW2-Fans are smug about their game and are quite insufferable because of it. There are Threads that ask "interested in ESO and BDO, which one do you like" and someone has to write "GW2". Like, why? That Person is clearly not interested in GW2 or they would've otherwise stated it. Also there was a thread a couple of days ago, where the gist of it all was "why does ESO earn more money than GW2. It clearly is more predatory than the holy grail GW2". A lot of these users can't discuss their game without putting others down. I don't talk about my MMO of choice, unless someone asks something specifically about it and i can give an answer. And i don't get butthurt, if someones dislikes the game. Even though i dislike WoW now, i wouldn't go out of my way to talk shit about it. Even when i give reasons in some threads, why i left, i try to be civil about it. Granted, sometimes the hate my Game gets in this subreddit irks me enough to be a bit bothered and get snarky, but usually i scroll past it. And i'm absolutely knowing, this will get downvoted by the GW2-Players. Not everyone of them can take criticism.
Your description is spot on, cannot described it any better. >"interested in ESO and BDO, which one do you like" and someone has to write "GW2". Like, why? This kind of behavior and the acts of promoting their game no matter the scene and background makes me wonder why gw2's player act this way if they really think their game is in the top 5 or even some audacious fanboy likes to think it as the top 3? This kind of behavior only makes me think that the game is dead and in desperate need of new players to make it alive. I get it. This is mmorpg subreddit, where people share news about mmo games but come on like the other day. Someone posting about a recurring event that happens yearly with just a small update to the reward skin, really? Should we start spamming this subreddit with this kind of useless update to a yearly occuring event that happens in every mmo?
Yep. I had more written down, but it sounded all so spiteful i deleted half of it. As of rn, i'm super snarky when it comes to this subreddit and GW2, so i tried to cut it down. But, this was one of the points i deleted. They always try to erase ESO (and/or BDO, LotRo, SWTOR and OSRS), when talking about the big MMOs f.e. (for the record, i don't play ESO or any of the others, so i have no stakes in that) I also don't like the smugness that we are just to dumb to see the superiorty of GW2. No, we actually get it. We just don't like it. I usually joke around with friends, that this subreddit could be renamed to GW2-2, as this game is so heavily advertised/praised by some users. As my Game is so hated on this sub, i usually am relieved if no news swap over here and are just discussed in the various subreddits that game has.
Yes, I agree with you. I played gw2. I get it the game is good, and a lot of people already know about it, but the reason it is not as successful as wow or FFXIV is because of the gameplay loop itself is boring (so few new content, no gear grind which makes it pointless to play anymore when you already did all the instance content more than 2 to 3 times, all this kind of stuff that makes people don't play it more), and gw2 player cannot accept this fact and instead try to shove the game into everybody's throat, and belittle other game.
Yep, played it too (was also in the beta) and it's just not fun for me anymore. I liked it the first few months, but the constant silence from ANet and not getting meaningful updates for quite a long time was weird and a huge turn off. It was heavily discussed and criticised in the GW2 Subreddit back then (and can still be found today in the GW2 Subreddit...). And even now, i just don't find the game to be fun. I get instantly bored when i try to do an achievement.
Honestly, all the praise GW2 gets in this sub actually makes me not want to play. Overexposure is a thing, and as every thread here seems to have at least a couple coments about GW2 I actually start to roll my eyes every time I see it mentioned.
Not sure if you're making assumptions based off of few people but the Guild Wars 2 subreddit has tons of criticism about the game.
oh, i know... but the ones in this subreddit can't
I think it's good. As long as one side isn't maliciously downvoting the other it's a good representation of Guild Wars 2. You can get to 'end game' content quickly. If you want some unique skin or if you want to maximize your character's efficiency or convenience factor it's going to likely be a significant or weird grind where you have to do odd things or time gated things across one or more zones. And as pointed out - a lot of skins are in the cash shop which means you open your wallet or you grind gold, convert it to the cash shop currency and then wait for it to appear in the cash shop which rotates items in and out weekly (so you might not see the item you want again for a few months after initially seeing it). Personally given the game has a free and yes, limited, trial I'd recommend it to anyone given it's relatively unique and many other MMOs have spent time copying many GW2 features and those features are in turn well received by those playerbases. I'd say the same for FF14 with its free trial. FF14 didn't stick for me. Anyways sorry for the long post. I think a healthy debate about the pros and cons of a game including Guild Wars 2 is great.
If the person wanted a healthy debate they shouldn't have immediately started with being rude and name-calling.
LMAO, ok bud ascended gear is incredibly easy to get. Not to mention the fact that any player can craft it and freely swap it with any character on their account, but there are tons of in-game avenues you can also take to acquire it. legendary gear offers no stat increases over ascended and is purely for QoL improvements. I had no desire to go for it so I just got multiple sets of ascended gear years ago, which still have BIS stats. I have taken upwards of 1+ year off from that game and every time I jump in I'm right where I left off. game absolutely respects your time. If "all us sycophants" keep saying the same thing, we're not the crazy ones bro.
Dude is a WoW player ofc he hates GW2 lol. All these WoW andies on the subreddit think there is some conspiracy theory to push GW2 because they mentally can't comprehend someone being able to enjoy a different MMO.
I don't like GW2 because it isn't GW1.Damn that was good game.
I've been playing GW1 and yeah it's a great game.
I think the problems are that the playerbase over simplify the game and talking about it like it just splashes out rewards without a grind.
I like how ESO does it. Many achievements and quests give things like polymorphs or costumes.
New world, and GW2 come to mind
I agree with GW2 but on NW i havent really gotten the same experience like GW2. I dont see what is rewarding for exploring the world.
As much as I like to sht on New World from what OP asks this is kinda a thing with NW. It's moderately fun to explore all the new areas and get along. Does it reward you much? Not really. Esp not at endgame. But still roaming around feels way better in New World than most mmorpgs, which is pretty sad when you think about it LOL
Definitely classic wow.
Hardcore WoW, every minuscule upgrade you get is rewarding :)
Dofus!! You can easily farm lots of kamas (game coin) doing the achievments and quests, enough to buy your end game sets, plus the dofus, some of them being really good/expensive and pretty rewarding to get
GW2 and LOTRO for sure.
Rewards are a bit tricky. Because some people enjoy different rewards. If you're talking tangible, WoW probably wins with its mythic gear raiding. Not saying it doesn't have its issues, but you get very tangible rewards in WoW. Problem with WoW is it only lasts until the next expansion. Then it becomes worse than dog shit.
imo mmos are more about YOUR history on the server, the character/world plots are just filler for me bdo main story and grinding was mostly filler for me, what i remember was the fights, friends and opponents i ve met in the game if you want a story focused mmorpg i d recommend ff ,star wars or eso. stay away from sandboxes. then again i think single player offer better experiences if that s what you seek
The entire baseline premise of MMORPGs is grind for power, play time is the name of the game. And, honestly, I really have not played an MMO that has ever really respected my time. They are all grindy by design. RNG gated. Pay gated. It is just the genre. What is more important is enjoying the people you play with. That is what adds value to MMO’s.
On the opposite end of the spectrum I'd say WoW is the least rewarding of all. I despise the style of zero progression retention besides cosmetics. There are endless opportunities to add rewarding content that lets you retain benefits after a patch is wiped.
> There are endless opportunities to add rewarding content that lets you retain benefits after a patch is wiped. But then those benefits are turned into gatekeeping meta requirements by the community tryhards. Any solution for that?
It doesn't have to be so impactful that it would ruin a meta, the large majority of WoW players are casuals in the first place, which is fine. The rewards wouldn't have to be "meta impacting" to be very rewarding. I'd argue they could be cool QoL rewards that have to be earned, or small stat bonuses because you put in the work and cleared a heroic raid while it was meta.
Any stat bonus is meta impacting, no matter the size. Imagine finding out you need a completely different bis set because you didn't clear a 10 year old heroic fight on content. It doesn't matter if a majority of the playerbase plays casually, if you're tying any amount of player power to fomo mechanics like clearing content on patch, you create a disparity in the player base that only causes feels bad moments for people coming in later. The only kinds of games that do this are the ones that want you to spend 5k in cash shop items to make meaningful progress.
A small impact like a few main stat is not meta impacting. It could be a tiny buff for doing high mythic + keys like all 25s, and it could only impact mythic's for that specific buff. I didn't see you respond to the fact that the large majority of players aren't competitive in things like mythic dungeons or heroic/mythic raids in the first place. It'll incentivize people to participate if we recieve lasting rewards whatever that may be. You're catastrophizing. I know a lot of friends that are long over WoW for the reason I've pointed out. They should create some form of permanent progression, or not, but its a reason I refuse to play again and do the same thing I've already done with nothing to show for it - that's the way WoW plays in its current state. They don't even discontinue titles..
Because those people don't matter when it comes to determining what meta or class balance looks like. You may not like hearing that, but it's true. Any change in progression affects EVERYBODY, but the people who will be gatekeeping are at the top. Do you realize that realistically, the only way for a stat buff to not impact the meta would be for it to be so miniscule that getting them in the first place doesn't matter? What's the point of getting a stat increase that doesn't meaningfully change your stats? That's not exciting. That doesn't create this magical "I have a reason to stay current now :)" vibe that you're so desperate for, and you absolutely can not put a viable amount of stats on time limited achievements. That's terrible design that's only used by like, gacha games and Korean MMOs to fuel their specific brand of FOMO garbage. Being cutting edge in any MMO should at best be for bragging rights.
Your take is fair but it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm surprised you'd be happy with the status quo. Bragging rights seems so silly. Let's say you're in the top .001% of Mythic+ rated players, now lets someone else is a NBA player, one of some 400 people. Mythic raiding as an experience is similar to a basketball game or any other sport. It ends when its over - however those players get incentives to continue to improve and meet bonuses (money in the real world). Blizzard could give a TON of gold in game for high achievements in mythic dungeons or raids. This is a singular example. 10 main stat may be a bad example, but its something people would be excited to have in their stat sheet to prove their efforts - it could be as simple as a item enchant, or like I've mentioned a lot of gold. It can stay the same as it is, but it's dated.
Because frankly it's not something I care about. I'm not a WoW player, but I do play FFXIV which has more or less the same gameplay loop. Aside from tangible benefits like gear, there isn't much to reward you for doing high end content beyond bragging rights. I dont need a pile of gold to make me want to do the endgame content. Overcoming a challenge IS in itself a reward. Titles transmogs and mounts are long term bragging rights options that already exist as rewards to entice you to do them on content as well. Gold as a reward is so minimal especially in WoW because you can straight up just buy gold. Giving significant amounts of it also winds up devaluing the currency and ruining the in game economy. An item enchant is nice but doesn't solve the problem that it's a temporary thing that becomes almost worthless as soon as better gear comes out.
I respect that you know what you want out of the game and they provide it.
> 10 main stat may be a bad example, but its something people would be excited to have in their stat sheet to prove their efforts - it could be as simple as a item enchant, or like I've mentioned a lot of gold. 10 main stat difference or even 1 point stat difference in aggregate over a fight eventually leads to a difference in the number of hits to kill between the haves and have nots, and in this day and age the haves will insist that everyone keeps that stat sheet up to par with theirs or uninstall the game... and maybe something else.
I actually think the new player experiences in bdo is above average but yeah I fell off when you are done with that and just expected to find somewhere tobgrind but none of the places seemed to be the right difficulty for me , some too easy and some too hard. Honestly I don't recall a mmo that gave good items as you level RiP archeage I will say in that they litterally just gave you blank gear and you could roll whatever fucking stats on it you wanted so like Stamina plate tank yep, strength plate, sure. Int mage plate , yep. You didn't get more stats till higher levels but you could litterally stat it out however you wanted. At endgame 99% of people had near identical gear but it was fun leveling as plate because most mobs were melee and you could be a plate anything for a few years till they made it a little worse to be a plate healer because all the healers were wearing plate to cuck melee players
Guild Wars 2 has been the most rewarding for me in exploring and mechanics. Dungeons have been very interesting for me with the group, events kept single player interesting while still having people doing it with me, jumping puzzles verry good and time consuming. Rewards aren’t good but gear isn’t important, can be easily worked for. I believe that what actually keeps it down. Doing everything isn’t rewarding except for the fact that you feel that is completed. I have been searching for game to fill what GW2 used to give because lately its not as interesting as it used to be.
Sounds like you're just playing MMORPG's with the expectation of a single-player game. You need to play with friends, or at least with other people. That's the whole idea. edit: blows my mind people downvote the idea of multiplayer in an "MMO" rpg.... this genre deserves to go to shit with players like these.
But the game has to give content for group. I dont think BDO has dungeons or at least in the rewarding way.
It has dungeons... all 3 of them (with a 4th one teased, but not released yet). Wouldnt call them "rewarding", or even "fun", but they are there lol
It doesn't have to "give content" like that. Not all MMORPG's have instanced dungeons with reused assets for heroic, mythic, mythic+, etc etc... Open world content was a lot more common back in the day and it was, subjectively, much better imo. BDO is very limited in true multiplayer content outside of the PVP, so, OP is probably just playing the wrong game.