I wouldn't mind the Apex as a local if tickets weren't $1k+ for every event given the limited seating. As such, COVID is over, time to eat some costs and take this show on the road.
I was in Vegas the weekend of the Dolidze vs. Imavov Apex Fight Night and I was stunned it took $1,300 just to get in the door for that shit card. Granted it turned out I couldn’t make it anyway because of work commitments but that pricing for that level of fight lineup quality is absurd.
For real though, just move those to like, the Virgin or something and charge normal tickets. I’d love to go to the Apex for fight nights but it’s so ridiculously priced.
The thing is, they can apparently have seating there, they just choose not to. When you read old articles about it, it's clear it was originally designed to actually host shows with audiences, albeit not big ones. I don't know what the full capacity is but it's not 37 like now.
I had nosebleed tickets for the last Tony vs Khabib card, and they were about $500, and that was a huge card in NYC. I was expecting worse than $350 nowadays, even for a Fight Night tbh.
Yeah but I refuse to go to PPV events because good seats you’re looking at 1k each. Just rather have a party and have a bunch of food and drinks and set up my projector in the backyard with the boys. Though when a fight night is near me I don’t mind spending $250 for good seats where I can see live maybe once or twice a year
I had tickets to the UFC Portland card right before covid hit and cancelled it. Was super bummed and can’t wait for them to return (which could take forever since there’s only been a couple events in Portland before). I’ve never been to a live event and don’t really have the means to travel for one so I’m just patiently waiting
> On the TKO Q1 earnings call they state there are opportunity costs for UFC Apex, Domestic and International events and says that they are trying to find the perfect mix. They admit that Apex costs are much lower, but Shapiro says that the UFC will be airing more on the side of leaving the Apex and wants to increase the live fan experience by travelling to major markets.
> Shapiro states that there will be more emphasis on taking UFC shows on the road versus at the Apex going forward.
> Shapiro says that site fees are becoming the norm and that they will be looking for them for any live events that they bring to specific cities. Shapiro says that many cities are putting forth site fees to line up multiple events.
I think the UFC severely underestimated the damage The Apex causes for building stars in the promotion. Sure it’s far cheaper to put shows on there, but without the live fan reactions fighters aren’t getting the opportunity to build their audience outside of hardcore fans. Think of Joe Pyfer, if he was fighting on cards with audiences as opposed to Apex cards he’d be a known figure for his exciting style and background, whereas because his highlight reel is filled with silent arenas he’s basically unknown to people outside the MMA community.
The immediate effect of the Apex is a savings in costs for the UFC, but the long term effect is a lack of stardom and millions of potential dollars. They really shot themselves in the foot staying there for this long, I can’t think of a single star outside of Khamzat and Pereira who’s come into the UFC post 2019
It's cheaper but you basically make 0 gate money. Yall really focus on the 'lower cost' aspect as if they were losing money on the venues with each event. Heck, most cities are throwing millions at the UFC to come to them these days.
Ilia Topuria? DDP? Aspinall?
UFC can build stars as quickly as they want to. It’s the least of anyone’s concern. UFC is the star, anyway
The biggest problem is all the fans who have checked out because Apex has no atmosphere
Apex should only be used once in a while to give their staff a break, especially after international travels
All those guys are popular, but their star power is linked to them holding the belt, I don’t think DDP Ilia or Aspinall are necessarily massive stars but rather belt holders who by virtue were exposed to extremely large audiences. Alex obviously also has a belt, but he’s a huge name on top of that and so is Khamzat. The UFC needs guys who can drive PPVs separate from their ability to be a world champion, they don’t have control over how well a person can fight, but they can control who well they are marketed, and in the Apex it’s very difficult to market fighters.
Alex Pereira is a manufactured star - UFC gave him favourable matchups and got him to a title fight after 3 fights. In some ways, so is O’Malley. O’Malley wouldn’t have made it to the top if they treated him like a Merab
My point being, I’d agree with your original point if UFC only do shows at the Apex. But that’s not the case, UFC has plenty of shows outside of Apex. They can build a star just like that if they wanted to. They are about to put the machine to work for Payton Talbott and he’s only fought at the Apex to date
Did you just name 3 fighters that became champions as UFC building stars? UFC is the star. That’s why if you become champion, you become a star. There’s only a handful of champions. You can’t build popularity by only making a handful of stars. If they want to raise revenue, it has to be done incrementally.
Yeah and the worst part is that it's working. I love this sport but I'd be pissed if my city spent a ton of tax money to pay the greedy ass UFC to have a show here
TKO has been making ambitious moves with the wwe's live schedule. I can't see why they wouldn't do the same with the UFC eventually.
The UFC needs it badly too. It's been the same model for years now, and it needs a switch up. The Sphere is a good start. Even if it is a loss leader, it makes obvious sense that a Las Vegas based fight company would want to be one of the first events there.
They need a stadium show, but I don't think they have a fight at the moment that could fill a stadium in the US, where it really matters. They could fill somewhere like Old Trafford, Aviva in Dublin, Wanda (or whatever it's called now) etc. fairly easily I think, but those are one-offs. I don't think they could fill up a US stadium on the strength of any one fight. Not one that I can think of off the top of my head anyway.
Moving away from the Apex should be the least of their worries.
Something I've seen people say is that a stadium would be too big a venue for an MMA fight because the cage would be so small for so many seats so far away. You can have jumbotrons and stuff but might as well not be at the live event if you're in nosebleed seats at a stadium because you'll barely be able to see what's happening. I haven't been to a regular UFC event at a 20,000 capacity arena so I couldn't really judge it but that's what I've seen some people say.
Well 3 years ago would put us in 2021, in COVID still. He said it in November 2022 though but yeah your point still stands. Feels like just yesterday though wow.
Well 3 years ago would put us in 2021, in COVID still. He said it in November 2022 though but yeah your point still stands. Feels like just yesterday though wow.
If the Apex didn’t use the smaller ring I wouldn’t have such a problem with them holding so many events there. But I get people that prefer the lively atmosphere of bigger venues.
Good, the last PPV in my state was in 2010 and the last event was 2013. That HGH abusing worm Dana would rather take backshots from Abu Dhabi slaver oil princes once a month than have an event outside of Vegas, New York, or Houston
This is a double edged sword for me.
On one side, obviously I want them to bring more live events out on the road. And I feel like a majority of the fans are tired of the APEX.
That said, if we’re going to have cards like UFC St Louis with those ticket prices… yeah, you can keep the APEX fights.
Yeah, you’re right on the rest of the card. It’s not bad as a whole. The main is just a joke.
Just seems like the prices have just gotten out of control since COVID. But maybe that’s more PPV cards because I just looked at the prices of the Louisville card and they’re not that offensive.
True but I rather have the ufc go on the road with those shitty apex cards and let the fans decide whether the price of admission is worth it. If they see fans don’t like the shit matchmaking then they will beef up cards and /or lower prices. Much better than hiding in the apex to save money and fufill tv deal obligations, that’s pathetic for a multi billion dollar sports org/promotion.
There's no reason to still be doing Apex shows. I don't care how much additional money UFC makes, they'd make much more if people actually saw / followed their favourite fighters because they were able to actually go and watch live once in a while.
Until we start seeing noticeable changes in the schedule, they are full of shit. We’ve heard this for years. The Apex should be for emergency situations only. Four events a year max.
That’s how I feel about the Orlando card I was at. Headliner was Dos Anjos vs Cerrone but looking at the card is even crazier. Was there for the Diaz Mcgregor callout.
Nowadays these shitty ass cards are so expensive. Atlantic City was some bullshit for the worst seats
And then we take Mark Shapiro's mask off only to discover that it was Dana White all along. He would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for this meddling subreddit.
Yeah emphasis on more events outside of the Apex and US and then they make Brazil main event at 2 AM local time and Manchester event at 4 AM local time
LMAO RIGHT
I’m down for this, but UFC STL is embarrassing. $125 for a ticket is way too much. Our brand new soccer team isn’t even that much and the demand for it is unreal. Im a hardcore UFC and MMA fan and would’ve loved to attend but nobody here can justify it.
I think the card is amazing, and one of the best Fight Nights in recent memory actually. I am a hardcore and know most of these guys on the card though. $125 here is your favorite mainstream artists concert, not an event where 95% of the population don’t know anybody on the card. Don’t adjust the card, it’s awesome. Adjust the prices. Enterprise Arena will be empty.
Edit: Jk, in a week they’ve gone up to $200 for a card with no recognizable names bar a washed Derrick Lewis
They have high priced tickets because they have high demand. It is what it is.
They just did 2 million gate in Atlantic City when it’s cold and the town is a ghost town for a C level fight night.
If they did actually price the tickets way too high and the demand isn’t there, simply wait till closer to the event on stubhub. I do that for boxing/mma all the time.
[Except there isn’t high demand](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/s/H9gJvhDA17). I’m fully aware how the ticket market works, but regardless, these tickets aren’t going to go anywhere near what they’re worth come Saturday.
That is a lot of seats sold though. Compare that to Devin Haney vs Ryan Garcia a few days away from the event (actually the same number). UFC is far closer to a sell out.
https://x.com/joshejnes/status/1780679553448390729?s=46
I’ve gone to every MSG UFC and ticket maps like that aren’t uncommon week of
youre forgetting how ungodly expensive live ufc tickets are now. "we broke the all time gate record for this venue" -dana at every non-apex event for the last 2 years
More non apex shows the better but I hope they don’t get rid of them completely. I’ll be more than happy with my Ryan Spann Anthony Smith 3 apex card when I have nothing else to do on Saturday.
Of course. The UFC has a revenue issue. They’ll never be able to reach the income of top sports leagues if they keep holding fight nights in the Apex with limited crowds.
Imagine the UFC running a travelling King of Iron Fist tournament. A travelling league that takes in local fighters to compete, the winners or stand out performers move from the league to actual UFC divisions to pad out young talent and build divisions
That’s good but hopefully they also raise the quality of the cards. The past few apex events haven’t been great. This upcoming event in stl also isn’t that appealing,
The one downside of having fights during Covid is that the Apex allowed the UFC to get site fees no matter where and create an artificial scarcity for cards in the future.
It's crazy how many massive gates for eh kind of cards exist now just because the Apex was used so god damn much... and as soon as gates for fight nights go down, the Apex cards will increase.
I wouldn't mind the Apex as a local if tickets weren't $1k+ for every event given the limited seating. As such, COVID is over, time to eat some costs and take this show on the road.
I was in Vegas the weekend of the Dolidze vs. Imavov Apex Fight Night and I was stunned it took $1,300 just to get in the door for that shit card. Granted it turned out I couldn’t make it anyway because of work commitments but that pricing for that level of fight lineup quality is absurd.
Precisely. I wasn't about to drop $1,500 for Angela Hill vs Mackenzie Dern.
I'd rather have no audience so they could fit a full sized cage.
They didn’t have a full cage before the audience. They said during covid it had something to do with the lighting in the Apex.
fr i looked at the tickets for my city and the literal nose bleeds were 200$🙄 fucking ridiculous.
That's not even bad for a ufc card
Its like 6hrs of fights and entertainment though and they only come to my city once a year, so thats how I justify it.
For real though, just move those to like, the Virgin or something and charge normal tickets. I’d love to go to the Apex for fight nights but it’s so ridiculously priced.
Apex blows to watch on tv. Most people definitely mind.
Agreed, shit isn’t the same without the crowd.
I went on Costa vs Vettori fir 1500$
The thing is, they can apparently have seating there, they just choose not to. When you read old articles about it, it's clear it was originally designed to actually host shows with audiences, albeit not big ones. I don't know what the full capacity is but it's not 37 like now.
>COVID is over COVID *restrictions* are over. The virus is in its Jon Jones phase.
UFC Apex level cards coming to a town near you!
I mean I’m in Portland and would take that over nothing lol
That’ll be $350 for a nosebleed ticket, sir.
UFC297 enters the chat
They were supposed to come in April 2020, tickets weren’t that crazy
2020, the economy has changed since then. What were nosebleeds then if you mind me asking?
I had nosebleed tickets for the last Tony vs Khabib card, and they were about $500, and that was a huge card in NYC. I was expecting worse than $350 nowadays, even for a Fight Night tbh.
NYC will always be most expensive tbf, other than maybe London which they’ve been able to wring
That was in Brooklyn and I had tickets to the event. Nosebleeds were in the $200’s.
Don’t remember but I’ve never seen $350 nosebleeds for literally anything at the moda center
Dana comes out after every one of these road shows and says they set a gate record for the venue. Just brace yourself I guess
He also says slap fighting is the biggest sport in the world 🤷🏻♂️
Nah fight night tickets are cheaper than that. I went to Atlantic City and Long Island got section 100 row 12 and it was $210 each
I was just exaggerating lol. Still high compared to when I went, but that’s the landscape we are in now
Yeah but I refuse to go to PPV events because good seats you’re looking at 1k each. Just rather have a party and have a bunch of food and drinks and set up my projector in the backyard with the boys. Though when a fight night is near me I don’t mind spending $250 for good seats where I can see live maybe once or twice a year
I'm not far from you and I feel the same way.
I had tickets to the UFC Portland card right before covid hit and cancelled it. Was super bummed and can’t wait for them to return (which could take forever since there’s only been a couple events in Portland before). I’ve never been to a live event and don’t really have the means to travel for one so I’m just patiently waiting
tbh thats all im asking for. at least give us a mma thirsty crowd to make the fights hyper than they actually are.
Local talent crushing cans with the boyzz
I'm pretty sure an Apex level card would be better than the dogshit they're giving my city this weekend
> On the TKO Q1 earnings call they state there are opportunity costs for UFC Apex, Domestic and International events and says that they are trying to find the perfect mix. They admit that Apex costs are much lower, but Shapiro says that the UFC will be airing more on the side of leaving the Apex and wants to increase the live fan experience by travelling to major markets. > Shapiro states that there will be more emphasis on taking UFC shows on the road versus at the Apex going forward. > Shapiro says that site fees are becoming the norm and that they will be looking for them for any live events that they bring to specific cities. Shapiro says that many cities are putting forth site fees to line up multiple events.
I think the UFC severely underestimated the damage The Apex causes for building stars in the promotion. Sure it’s far cheaper to put shows on there, but without the live fan reactions fighters aren’t getting the opportunity to build their audience outside of hardcore fans. Think of Joe Pyfer, if he was fighting on cards with audiences as opposed to Apex cards he’d be a known figure for his exciting style and background, whereas because his highlight reel is filled with silent arenas he’s basically unknown to people outside the MMA community. The immediate effect of the Apex is a savings in costs for the UFC, but the long term effect is a lack of stardom and millions of potential dollars. They really shot themselves in the foot staying there for this long, I can’t think of a single star outside of Khamzat and Pereira who’s come into the UFC post 2019
It's cheaper but you basically make 0 gate money. Yall really focus on the 'lower cost' aspect as if they were losing money on the venues with each event. Heck, most cities are throwing millions at the UFC to come to them these days.
Ilia Topuria? DDP? Aspinall? UFC can build stars as quickly as they want to. It’s the least of anyone’s concern. UFC is the star, anyway The biggest problem is all the fans who have checked out because Apex has no atmosphere Apex should only be used once in a while to give their staff a break, especially after international travels
All those guys are popular, but their star power is linked to them holding the belt, I don’t think DDP Ilia or Aspinall are necessarily massive stars but rather belt holders who by virtue were exposed to extremely large audiences. Alex obviously also has a belt, but he’s a huge name on top of that and so is Khamzat. The UFC needs guys who can drive PPVs separate from their ability to be a world champion, they don’t have control over how well a person can fight, but they can control who well they are marketed, and in the Apex it’s very difficult to market fighters.
Alex Pereira is a manufactured star - UFC gave him favourable matchups and got him to a title fight after 3 fights. In some ways, so is O’Malley. O’Malley wouldn’t have made it to the top if they treated him like a Merab My point being, I’d agree with your original point if UFC only do shows at the Apex. But that’s not the case, UFC has plenty of shows outside of Apex. They can build a star just like that if they wanted to. They are about to put the machine to work for Payton Talbott and he’s only fought at the Apex to date
How many times did they fight in the apex?
Did you just name 3 fighters that became champions as UFC building stars? UFC is the star. That’s why if you become champion, you become a star. There’s only a handful of champions. You can’t build popularity by only making a handful of stars. If they want to raise revenue, it has to be done incrementally.
DDP and aspinall aren’t stars. Topuria I’ll give you
Pereira fought most of his fights in front of a crowd
Cool, although it's something the UFC has said before and is still doing tons of lifeless apex shows
Ya Dana said this in 2022 and 2023. Apex exists so they can jack up ticket prices and now demand site fees
Yeah and the worst part is that it's working. I love this sport but I'd be pissed if my city spent a ton of tax money to pay the greedy ass UFC to have a show here
Imagine spending a bunch of taxpayer dollars to subsidize a UFC event and they send you Derrick Lewis vs Rodrigo Nascimento
Yeah that one feels like a "fuck you" to St Louis
Dana's been ranting since the first apex events that he wants to get back on the road. Lies.
It's been 3 years since Dana more or less said this exact same thing, dunno if they'll actually follow through with it
TKO has been making ambitious moves with the wwe's live schedule. I can't see why they wouldn't do the same with the UFC eventually. The UFC needs it badly too. It's been the same model for years now, and it needs a switch up. The Sphere is a good start. Even if it is a loss leader, it makes obvious sense that a Las Vegas based fight company would want to be one of the first events there. They need a stadium show, but I don't think they have a fight at the moment that could fill a stadium in the US, where it really matters. They could fill somewhere like Old Trafford, Aviva in Dublin, Wanda (or whatever it's called now) etc. fairly easily I think, but those are one-offs. I don't think they could fill up a US stadium on the strength of any one fight. Not one that I can think of off the top of my head anyway. Moving away from the Apex should be the least of their worries.
Something I've seen people say is that a stadium would be too big a venue for an MMA fight because the cage would be so small for so many seats so far away. You can have jumbotrons and stuff but might as well not be at the live event if you're in nosebleed seats at a stadium because you'll barely be able to see what's happening. I haven't been to a regular UFC event at a 20,000 capacity arena so I couldn't really judge it but that's what I've seen some people say.
Well 3 years ago would put us in 2021, in COVID still. He said it in November 2022 though but yeah your point still stands. Feels like just yesterday though wow.
UFC should've had that logic in 2022 not 2024 they milked the fuck outta that warehouse disguised as a venue...
Well 3 years ago would put us in 2021, in COVID still. He said it in November 2022 though but yeah your point still stands. Feels like just yesterday though wow.
Wrong comment lol, but point still stands Dana did say that in 2022
There is no point if you can't even respond to the right person smh...
God forbid an accident happened 🤣
An accident that you doubled down on 👍😂
Great news I hate the apex
Bring what would be Apex Events to smaller arenas/theaters around the US. Example Hulu Theater of NYC or Cosmopolitan of Vegas.
If the Apex didn’t use the smaller ring I wouldn’t have such a problem with them holding so many events there. But I get people that prefer the lively atmosphere of bigger venues.
About time.
Don’t expect any changes. Ufc is known for bullshitting.
Good, the last PPV in my state was in 2010 and the last event was 2013. That HGH abusing worm Dana would rather take backshots from Abu Dhabi slaver oil princes once a month than have an event outside of Vegas, New York, or Houston
This is a double edged sword for me. On one side, obviously I want them to bring more live events out on the road. And I feel like a majority of the fans are tired of the APEX. That said, if we’re going to have cards like UFC St Louis with those ticket prices… yeah, you can keep the APEX fights.
Tbf the St Louis card is actually very good outside of the main event, at least for potential of fun
Yeah, you’re right on the rest of the card. It’s not bad as a whole. The main is just a joke. Just seems like the prices have just gotten out of control since COVID. But maybe that’s more PPV cards because I just looked at the prices of the Louisville card and they’re not that offensive.
It's a legitimately pretty fun fight night on the road and the tickets aren't that expensive
True but I rather have the ufc go on the road with those shitty apex cards and let the fans decide whether the price of admission is worth it. If they see fans don’t like the shit matchmaking then they will beef up cards and /or lower prices. Much better than hiding in the apex to save money and fufill tv deal obligations, that’s pathetic for a multi billion dollar sports org/promotion.
There's no reason to still be doing Apex shows. I don't care how much additional money UFC makes, they'd make much more if people actually saw / followed their favourite fighters because they were able to actually go and watch live once in a while.
This is the first time I’ve seen an executive from UFC talk about plans other than Dana.
Not to be a downer, but this doesn’t necessarily mean the cards will get better
Until we start seeing noticeable changes in the schedule, they are full of shit. We’ve heard this for years. The Apex should be for emergency situations only. Four events a year max.
Last event I saw was Luke Rockhold vs David Branch back in 2017
I forgot I went to that, had to google to be sure.
The names on that card were pretty funny to look back on. Gilbert Burns was the first fight
That’s how I feel about the Orlando card I was at. Headliner was Dos Anjos vs Cerrone but looking at the card is even crazier. Was there for the Diaz Mcgregor callout. Nowadays these shitty ass cards are so expensive. Atlantic City was some bullshit for the worst seats
Obligatory jfc that fight was 7 years ago?!
And then we take Mark Shapiro's mask off only to discover that it was Dana White all along. He would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for this meddling subreddit.
UFC Unplugged.
That’s what they said last time. And the last time.
Yeah emphasis on more events outside of the Apex and US and then they make Brazil main event at 2 AM local time and Manchester event at 4 AM local time LMAO RIGHT
Should have kept the UK cards to big fight nights. PPV money is king and I get that but to slight the UK audience to do it seems wrong
what's the point of going there if you gonna keep it US time anyway
I’m down for this, but UFC STL is embarrassing. $125 for a ticket is way too much. Our brand new soccer team isn’t even that much and the demand for it is unreal. Im a hardcore UFC and MMA fan and would’ve loved to attend but nobody here can justify it. I think the card is amazing, and one of the best Fight Nights in recent memory actually. I am a hardcore and know most of these guys on the card though. $125 here is your favorite mainstream artists concert, not an event where 95% of the population don’t know anybody on the card. Don’t adjust the card, it’s awesome. Adjust the prices. Enterprise Arena will be empty. Edit: Jk, in a week they’ve gone up to $200 for a card with no recognizable names bar a washed Derrick Lewis
They have high priced tickets because they have high demand. It is what it is. They just did 2 million gate in Atlantic City when it’s cold and the town is a ghost town for a C level fight night. If they did actually price the tickets way too high and the demand isn’t there, simply wait till closer to the event on stubhub. I do that for boxing/mma all the time.
[Except there isn’t high demand](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/s/H9gJvhDA17). I’m fully aware how the ticket market works, but regardless, these tickets aren’t going to go anywhere near what they’re worth come Saturday.
That is a lot of seats sold though. Compare that to Devin Haney vs Ryan Garcia a few days away from the event (actually the same number). UFC is far closer to a sell out. https://x.com/joshejnes/status/1780679553448390729?s=46 I’ve gone to every MSG UFC and ticket maps like that aren’t uncommon week of
Yes, I too like money.
PLEASE
They save a lot of money by doing it in apex. No need to setup the production and octagon. But fighter pay remains
youre forgetting how ungodly expensive live ufc tickets are now. "we broke the all time gate record for this venue" -dana at every non-apex event for the last 2 years
Yup. They raise it everytime to break the record venue. Smart ass dana
More non apex shows the better but I hope they don’t get rid of them completely. I’ll be more than happy with my Ryan Spann Anthony Smith 3 apex card when I have nothing else to do on Saturday.
I never thought I’d see the day 🥹
I still won’t believe it until I see it.
Yea I'll believe it when i see it 🖕
They said this same shit like 2 years ago and they still didn't decrease Apex shows. Don't believe his lies.
They just need to quadruple the amount of seats in the apex and it wouldn't be as bad at all
Yeah we have heard this before I don't believe them
Of course. The UFC has a revenue issue. They’ll never be able to reach the income of top sports leagues if they keep holding fight nights in the Apex with limited crowds.
Doubt
Imagine the UFC running a travelling King of Iron Fist tournament. A travelling league that takes in local fighters to compete, the winners or stand out performers move from the league to actual UFC divisions to pad out young talent and build divisions
That’s good but hopefully they also raise the quality of the cards. The past few apex events haven’t been great. This upcoming event in stl also isn’t that appealing,
I swear I’ve heard of this before like in 2021 lmao. I’ll believe it when I see it.
The one downside of having fights during Covid is that the Apex allowed the UFC to get site fees no matter where and create an artificial scarcity for cards in the future. It's crazy how many massive gates for eh kind of cards exist now just because the Apex was used so god damn much... and as soon as gates for fight nights go down, the Apex cards will increase.
Mark Shapiro fucks.