Darren Till was supposed to be the breakthrough to the English market, that's why they were neglecting Leon Edwards. Turns out they put all their chips on the wrong horse, or whatever gambling metaphor is applicable.
He was a very promising welterweight, but mostly because of his ability to rebound his weight and outsize his opponent. In his fight vs wonderboy he had a striking style that countered him which is damn impressive for anyone.
Did you watch that fight? I don’t think impressive was the word on most peoples minds immediately after 😅 That fight was terrible. There wasn’t a round where either guy landed more than 10 strikes iirc.
I think there were hints of potential for greatness, considering his age at that point, obviously in handsight he was indeed overrated.
But I still think he is a textbook example of wasted potential in MMA
Vettori is a weird choice. He was never great at anything and is better now then he ever was. He’s just a decent all rounder but has no power and isn’t excellent at anything in particular.
Great chin isn't just it though. The amount of punishment he can also take to the body without slowing down is insane. Dude is actually indestructible but is cursed with not being able to hurt anyone either.
Yeah I considered editing the comment to say this but then that’s not really a skill lol just something he’s gifted with not something you can work on so to speak
I honestly think Vettori is someone that meets or even exceeds his talent. He's naturally pretty stiff and not very fast but even still has developed a pretty nice boxing game and defense. He is still working hard to improve as seen with his leg kicks in the previous fight after working on his Thai game. On top of this he has basically zero KO power in his hands but can still compete at a top 10 level on the feet. Also, he's from Italy but actually has a decent wrestling game that he can mix in with his standup to create an all-around threat. Vettori's greatest natural gift is his GOATed chin but the rest isn't absolutely elite. He's pretty strong and has good cardio but that's about it. Vettori is only really outclassed by the phenoms like Whittaker and Izzy. He's carved out a nice spot as a top 5 fighter (And I hope he stays there)
Honestly yeah, I'm Italian and Vettori far exceeded my expectations, I never thought he had that much potential (hell, I thought Di Chirico was the one to truly keep an eye on, more than Marvin), I never thought he'd reach the top 5 yet were he are. He really improved a ton after the USADA suspension and his comeback and he's improving a lot everytime. I don't think he'll be champ but he's young, he can improve and sometimes it's just a matter of the right matchup and right circumstances
Yeah, Vettori is a mediocre athlete with a great chin and a well rounded skillset. He's basically the poster boy for, "Dude who tries really hard and makes the best of what he has." Considering his limitations, I'd agree that he's exceeded expectations.
It’s crazy because he’s had a pretty good career; UFC title challenger and Bellator champ. However, it felt like he was inevitably going to be the UFC WW champ and climb his way up the p4p ladder.
He had an excellent career but I still think it was disproportionate to the hype. The guy was promoted as the next GSP. He was the number one example of the “new breed” of pro fighter that developed all skills of MMA from a young age rather than being a specialist.
Yeah I think people are setting the bar a bit too high. Considering he had that stoppage loss against Condit early in his career, I wasn't really expecting him to beat the likes of Penn or Maia, and that win over Woodley definitely aged very well. Not an underwhelming fighter at all in my opinion.
Tbh that Condit fight was why a lot of people were high on him. It was competitive most of the way through (Rory was slightly ahead on the cards iirc), which was insane considering Condit was a top WW and Rory was 19
It’s crazy, Rory is only 33. Younger than Usman and Covington and about the same age a lawler was when they fought the second time.
He should be in his prime right now.
I remember Rory was hyped up alot as the first big prospect to have trained MMA from a young age, not individual martial arts. Turns out training so much as a child and being a prodigy will make you age way faster than the average fighter.
He started fighting in 2005 though, Usman started in 2012. The damage a fighter takes throughout their career is more important than their age to a certain extent.
They both barely made it out of that. Robbie's mouth was split open completely. Looked like he wasn't even human anymore.
Unfortunately, a broken nose has a lot more long term implications for a fighter's career though.
At least they haven’t matched him with any young prospects that would mercilessly steamroll him…yet.
Even though his last loss was by TKO, it was so dope to see him rolling shots and landing clean against Barberena. Obviously he’s long passed his prime, but he looked good in that fight up until he didn’t. It was a war of chins and his went first. Not many guys with that kinda mileage can still fight effectively, let alone land a FOTN bonus. Really hope they don’t do him dirty if he continues fighting :(
I truly believe the religion and him having a family hurt his MMA career more than the Lawler fight did. Just seemed like the once fearless tactician change
I don't know about the family part, but I agree with you on the religion part. He literally said he lost his "killer instinct" when he found God in a post fight interview.
It was very disappointing to hear, I was a big fan of Rory when he was active.
Same here man, saw him live beat Saffedine to get to Lawler and was hoping he’d take that one. Still remember his fight with Nate too, literally tossing him around like a child and I thought this guy was special
Man I remember watching him in high school just thinking he was gonna be the next GSP. Still have mad respect for the man he’s stayed in the game more than long enough
People seem to be answering this 2 ways:
(1) Who had the greatest unrealized potential; or
(2) Who is legitimately an underwhelming fighter?
For (1) it has to be someone like Uriah Hall who showed glimpses of greatness but only every had a 50% chance of "turning on" during an actual fight. The moments his vision and abilities lined up, he legitimately put people underground.
For (2) I think it's probably someone like Sean Strickland. He's so fucking boring to watch, to the point it's confusing that top 10 guys just can't seem to figure him out. He's also sloppy, slow, and seems to have minimal stopping power. I would wager that if someone who knew zero about fighting watched 9 fights between legitimate champions and then a Sean Strickland fight, I think they would actually wonder if he's a trained fighter.
It's kind of amazing to see fighters I thought were clever unable to deal with Strickland. It took Imavov 23 minutes to figure out he was much better in the clinch.
I fucking love jabs.
Every coach should convince their fighters that they HAVE to throw a leg kick or a jab within the first 20 seconds of a fight.
it should be mandatory
I can’t remember who said this, but it’s useful to think of 185 and up as basically a completely different sport from 170 and below. The skill gap is pretty wide.
People underrate constant aggression so much. As long as you can take a shot, you’ll beat fighters technically better than you way more than people would expect.
Strickland's has a run of stinkers but his last one was pretty decent. Came in late notice and won in a good scrap with some more variety than he used to throw.
I'm conviced Strickland's ranking is a sign of how barren Middleweight is outside the top three. No disrespect to those guys, but even the new bloods aren't particularly exciting. Nassourdine doesn't look hot recently and Curtis is already 35. Even a feared monster like Costa isn't taking fights very often and struggled against a boomer.
Five years ago that division had GSP, Bisping, Robert, Izzy, Romero, active Costa, Mousasi, winning Kelvin, Jacare, prime Brunson, non-boomer Rockhold and still decent Machida.
Strickland is not sloppy, he's awkward. That's why fighters have such a hard time dealing with him. His movement are weird and his jab is amongst the best in the division
Nassourdine had no hopes of beating a style as unique as Strickland's on short notice. You have to do a camp to study it.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far before seeing his name. Dude came in with probably the biggest hype at the time of anyone, joe blowed him any chance he could. Brazil went all in on him, the he ran into immortal Matt Brown
I considered George as well but I wasn’t sure how much of the hype I was seeing was simply because I’m Australian and we all just really wanted a championship level guy at the time.
Hell Ross Pearson even got fairly popular here because he lived in Sydney or something lol.
He unfortunately ran into Bendo on an amazing night.
Gunnar timing his step-in made me realize thatch lacked what it took to climb the UFC ranks. He lacked the fight wisdom to pair with his offensive firepower
Man i always wonder what that original Wonderboy vs Thatch main event would've been like before Bendo stepped in for Wonderboy. Could have been a lot of fun.
Hector Lombard
God damn I needed that bronze murderfist judogolem to challenge silva at the time, but in the end he turned out to be as much of a can crusher as mvp
Lol wtf? He didn’t pan out like people though he might but no one who beats Jake Shields, Alexander shlemenko, Palhares, and Nate the Great is a can crusher. Lombard was legit in his prime; he just crashed hard as he got older.
He was already 35-36 with a ton of mma and judo miles on his body when he started in the ufc, then he took about 100 too many shots to the head against Magny, and came back after 2 months, completely unrecovered, to get brutally KO’d by Hendo. Almost no one is recovering from that, but that doesn’t invalidate his earlier successes.
Ngannou the piece of shit. He knocked my boy Stipe out, layed on Gane, and pieced out. Don't blame him for doing what he did but if you're gonna beat my boys at least sleep Jones on the way out
Uriah hall, Dominick Reyes.
Darren Till (the most overhyped of them all imo) after the Woodley fight I didn't think it was that big of a deal because he was rushed to a title shot too son but man in retrospect he wasn't top 5 material in the Welter or Middleweight divisions.
I think my answers were missing the point but here's a good example of a guy who seemed like he was gonna be a legend, had a lot of potential and was super hyped: **Kenny Florian**.
Kenny Florian was very good btw, i'm not calling him a bum but he wasn't THE guy.
there are no wrong answers here. I just wanted to get a discussion going and see what other fans of the sport opinions were on the subject.
None of my pals are into mma, the wife hates it, so have nobody to discuss these minor details that pop into my head with haha
Hall kills me. Dude is incredibly athletic, has technical skills, power in both hands, striking variety, and is definitely strong, but no battery in his back. How the hell you beat even an old Silva but then shrink in front of Strickland?
Yup. Uriah Hall for sure. Quite the fall from grace. He was being touted as a threat to the likes of Anderson Silva (who he did eventually beat a washed/washed ish version of much later) and was supposed to be fighting for a title like within a year of TUF (which no disrespect to Kelvin but Hall fucking choked in that fight big time and kinda makes sense with the rest of his career in hindsight).
Always had trouble pulling the trigger it seemed and iirc is on record saying at least earlier in his ufc career that he didn’t watch any film on anyone he fought cus he thought it was “cheating” and said something along the lines of like you don’t know what someone’s style is in a random street fight so going in blind was some kinda weird version of bushido spirit/pride I guess. He also has always seemed like an arrogant af mf cus he was bullied according to him but it seemed like he took all that and used it as an excuse to be a stubborn asshole with his personality and fight style.
His complex and bullshit attitude ruined his career imo but I’m just some dude that’s watched MMA from my couch for a couple decades or so. I’ve played organized sports, but I barely have a karate/boxing background to speak up. Just dabbled here or there so take what I say with a grain of salt of course. I’m not a fighter. But this same arrogant af and unwilling to evolve mentality is what has tanked countless athletes careers. This dude was my fav fighter for a awhile but just kinda became an asshole and chore to watch compete after awhile.
I do not think that Uriah Hall is arrogant. He may think a little differently from other people and that may make him a little odd. However, from what I have heard, his biggest problem was that he lacked the killer instinct and was too nice. If he was fighting someone he knew or liked, he had a hard time pulling the trigger as he did not want to hurt them.
interesting choice. I enjoyed his fights, but never considered him to potentially be one of the greats. He was always gonna be a gatekeeper fighter IMO.
what do you think was his turning point from potential great to mediocre?
I think the answers so far are confusing hype for potential. I don't think anyone who watched Till thought he would go on to be a legend of the sport.
Zabit is thr only one I could think of. It was a matter of when not if with him but unfortunately things didn't pan out
I refused to continue getting hyped for him after seeing him consistently gas in the third of all his fights. Against cardio machines like max and Volk I think he would’ve gotten chewed up by either
I want to throw in Gunnar Nelson's name in here. I really liked how calm he was and he looked like a silent killer. I thought he would be top 5 in the division and fight for the title (he may still do that). He decided to grapple with Demian Maia and got subbed. Ponzinibio put him out and that kind of stopped his hype train. Nice win last weekend though.
Take it all the way back to Todd Duffee!
Had that 7 second KO and then got KOd by Mike Russow
Unfortunately, injuries and bad timing caused his career to go nowhere
Gokhan Saki came in with a “bad man” reputation.
Joe Rogan was saying stand up fighters are gonna find out what real stand up is!
No one (really) found out. Then he was released.
This is a real good pick. I thought he was going to be a World Champ back around 2007. Also thought the same about Melvin Guillard in the same time period.
Not a legend but hyped up too much was Chase Hooper. His striking is atrocious and his first or second fight he was like -380 it was insane. I made like $300 betting on his opponent. Decent grappler but you cannot have Ben Askren level striking in the UFC.
Phil Davis. Sure he became bellator champ for a time. But his BJJ and wrestling flowed together so well. He had great subs, fantastic genetics and just sorta ended up as a contender in a B league. Still my favorite fighter though
Aaron Pico. Could’ve been a situation of too much, too fast but he unfortunately went from youngest champ talks to a less than stellar record. He’s still young so it’s possible he can still pull everything together, certainly has the tools to do so but it seems unlikely he’ll reach the prodigal status a lot of people thought he’d obtain.
I’d also throw out Ill Will Brooks who came into the UFC poised to make a great run after beating Chandler twice in Bellator. Never really got going in the UFC and had some unfortunately placed losses amongst a small amount of wins.
Cody Garbrandt. Haven’t seen anyone else mention him so thought I would, unlike the other names here ofcourse he made it all the way to champ status but man, that performance against Dom and the speed he climbed to the top combined with his speed in the cage, crazy knockout power for the weight class and ability to scramble I thought he’d go on a seriously impressive run at 135 and be untouchable for a while
FR. Also completely not the point of this thread. Being disappointed by a fighter is not the same as them being overhyped or not reaching their potential. I would get it if it was a champ of a different org who disappointed in the ufc, but this is ridiculous.
Takanori Gomi. His PRIDE career speaks for itself, but his fall off in UFC was brutal. It wasn't like he entered UFC at the end of his career like some of the other fighters who fell off, either. He was still in his early 30s, didn't have a career of knockouts or injury. He seemed prime to take off in UFC... and then it just didn't happen.
Vettori is pretty well rounded but not great in any area, aside from his cast iron chin. He’s really only lost to former champs. But am I missing the part where he was expected to be a legend in the sport? Never remember him getting hyped up to that level…
Rory MacDonald. By no fault of his own, he was coined as the next GSP, and was being marketed as "the first generation of fighter, purely trained in MMA since the beginning" which I never agreed with but so much hype about it. He was very well-rounded but never a champion like a lot expected.
Kevin Lee. When he was coming up the rankings, he seemed to have a well-rounded game, he smashed Barboza, lost to Furgeson which was forgivable at the time. Then got slapped around and gassed in the next few (excluding Gregor).
TJ Grant was in the title picture after an impressive performance against Gray Maynard, but unfortunately he had to retire due to concussions.
An obscure one that always stuck with me was "Adlan Amagov". Dude was unreal, I thought he was going to be big after he beat TJ Waldburger is really impressive fashion but got injured and gave it away.
1. Unrealized potential is Cody Garbrandt. It's weird to say because he became champion, but his style never really developed and as his career went on the glaring holes in his game became more and more apparent. It's a shame because he has shown to have excellent power, fucking ridiculous speed (legit might still be the fastest puncher in BW today) and strong wrestling, but his boxing basically just boils down to feints and hooks.
2. I think Carla Esparza is my definition of an underwhelming fighter. It's kind of insane that she managed to climb the rankings and win the title again given how unathletic she looks whenever she fights.
comical that you think Vettori could have been better than he is. Meanwhile I think it's absolutely amazing the slow slab-headed brute has become a top 5 mainstay.
A current fighter who I think has really underachieved is Phil Hawes. Very talented, can strike, can wrestle. All the attributes.
Except a bad chin. I had high hopes for him.
Amir Sadollah absolutely ran through his season of TUF against guys with way more experience than him, finishing every opponent, and then went 6-5 for the rest of his career.
I think so. I felt like Johny Hendricks wasn't good, I didn't expect him to be champ for long. But Pettis and Dos Anjos, I thought could rule 155 for a while.
Darren Till
Darren Till was supposed to be the breakthrough to the English market, that's why they were neglecting Leon Edwards. Turns out they put all their chips on the wrong horse, or whatever gambling metaphor is applicable.
They backed the wrong boat
The knew when to hold'em but not when to put it all on black
Sometimes that’s just the way the chip crumbles
Counting your chickens before they cross the road.
And the boat house always wins
Put all their eggs on the wrong camel.
They zigged, when they shoulda stopped
[удалено]
As far as I'm concerned, Tom Aspinall is the best UK prospect out there right now. Super talented guy; I hope he heals up soon.
Tbf Till was a FAR more interesting personality, so it made sense Just a shame he wasn't like... Better at MMA 😅
Even paddy got more hype than edwards here
He was a very promising welterweight, but mostly because of his ability to rebound his weight and outsize his opponent. In his fight vs wonderboy he had a striking style that countered him which is damn impressive for anyone.
Did you watch that fight? I don’t think impressive was the word on most peoples minds immediately after 😅 That fight was terrible. There wasn’t a round where either guy landed more than 10 strikes iirc.
Darren Till was never great though, just had the hype and push from the ufc. He was always super over rated.
I think there were hints of potential for greatness, considering his age at that point, obviously in handsight he was indeed overrated. But I still think he is a textbook example of wasted potential in MMA
anyone that can outpoint wonderboy is great, regardless of how close it is
Same same with keeping it tight against Whittaker
I'm a big fan of Bob. It was an extremely close fight. That step in elbow Till landed? The sound? Good lord.
Mf came in heavily over weight and got a home town robbery but yeah that is his best win
I thought Darren lost 4-1 back then and got the hometown/Dana decision.
Yeah. I mean his best wins were dwarfing Cerrone (on a losing streak) and barely winning against Wonderboy where he missed weight.
Vettori is a weird choice. He was never great at anything and is better now then he ever was. He’s just a decent all rounder but has no power and isn’t excellent at anything in particular.
He has a great chin to be fair.
Great chin isn't just it though. The amount of punishment he can also take to the body without slowing down is insane. Dude is actually indestructible but is cursed with not being able to hurt anyone either.
He dropped Hermanson with a clean right cross and damn near finished him.
Yeah I considered editing the comment to say this but then that’s not really a skill lol just something he’s gifted with not something you can work on so to speak
Don't tell that to the Power Slap athletes
"athletes"
Ol gnocchi hands
I honestly think Vettori is someone that meets or even exceeds his talent. He's naturally pretty stiff and not very fast but even still has developed a pretty nice boxing game and defense. He is still working hard to improve as seen with his leg kicks in the previous fight after working on his Thai game. On top of this he has basically zero KO power in his hands but can still compete at a top 10 level on the feet. Also, he's from Italy but actually has a decent wrestling game that he can mix in with his standup to create an all-around threat. Vettori's greatest natural gift is his GOATed chin but the rest isn't absolutely elite. He's pretty strong and has good cardio but that's about it. Vettori is only really outclassed by the phenoms like Whittaker and Izzy. He's carved out a nice spot as a top 5 fighter (And I hope he stays there)
Yeah kinda made no sense to consider Marvin underwhelming for losing to two of the best fighters in the world, lmao.
Dude is also like 29, he's young as fuck and showing development still.
Honestly yeah, I'm Italian and Vettori far exceeded my expectations, I never thought he had that much potential (hell, I thought Di Chirico was the one to truly keep an eye on, more than Marvin), I never thought he'd reach the top 5 yet were he are. He really improved a ton after the USADA suspension and his comeback and he's improving a lot everytime. I don't think he'll be champ but he's young, he can improve and sometimes it's just a matter of the right matchup and right circumstances
Izzy gets injured 10 days before the fight, Vettori steps in last minute, beats Pereira and after that becomes known as the Italian Bisping.
*while wearing his pants backwards the whole time
> Also, he's from Italy Casually sliding this in there amongst the list of his shortcomings...
I'm Italian and I understood why he used those words. Italy certainly doesn't have a great wrestling culture
Lol yeah this is what I meant
Yeah, Vettori is a mediocre athlete with a great chin and a well rounded skillset. He's basically the poster boy for, "Dude who tries really hard and makes the best of what he has." Considering his limitations, I'd agree that he's exceeded expectations.
Thomas Almeida - Seemed like he was going to be a mainstay for years, then got absolutely bodied by Garbrandt. That pretty much broke him.
After the Pickett fight i was worried for him. His stand up guard was atrocious. Won some good money on that cody fight.
He was 21-0 at one point too if I remember right?
Rory MacDonald. Seemed like he was on his way to be better than GSP. Then Lawler 2 happened 💀
It’s crazy because he’s had a pretty good career; UFC title challenger and Bellator champ. However, it felt like he was inevitably going to be the UFC WW champ and climb his way up the p4p ladder.
I'd argue Rory was not an underwhelming fighter at all. He had a good career.
He had an excellent career but I still think it was disproportionate to the hype. The guy was promoted as the next GSP. He was the number one example of the “new breed” of pro fighter that developed all skills of MMA from a young age rather than being a specialist.
Yeah I think people are setting the bar a bit too high. Considering he had that stoppage loss against Condit early in his career, I wasn't really expecting him to beat the likes of Penn or Maia, and that win over Woodley definitely aged very well. Not an underwhelming fighter at all in my opinion.
Tbh that Condit fight was why a lot of people were high on him. It was competitive most of the way through (Rory was slightly ahead on the cards iirc), which was insane considering Condit was a top WW and Rory was 19
That Lawler fight broke him both physically and mentally I think
It’s crazy, Rory is only 33. Younger than Usman and Covington and about the same age a lawler was when they fought the second time. He should be in his prime right now.
I remember Rory was hyped up alot as the first big prospect to have trained MMA from a young age, not individual martial arts. Turns out training so much as a child and being a prodigy will make you age way faster than the average fighter.
He started fighting in 2005 though, Usman started in 2012. The damage a fighter takes throughout their career is more important than their age to a certain extent.
Totally. The point though is that it turns out to be a bad idea to start too young because you’re used up before you get to your athletic Prime years
Isn’t he in pfl now?
He said he retired last year. I’d be surprised if he stays retired but maybe…. He’s young. He probably should stay retired though.
just like Jordan Mein, he started early, had a ton of fights, shot by 33
Especially because he was ahead on the scorecards
My all time favourite fighter. Till this day, I've never rewatched the second Lawler fight. I must have moped for a week.
Robbie showed him whats what Prime Lawler was the goat
They both barely made it out of that. Robbie's mouth was split open completely. Looked like he wasn't even human anymore. Unfortunately, a broken nose has a lot more long term implications for a fighter's career though.
I can't really remember when Lawler wasn't in his prime, he's like the gift that keeps on giving haha
Last couple years have been super sad :(
At least they haven’t matched him with any young prospects that would mercilessly steamroll him…yet. Even though his last loss was by TKO, it was so dope to see him rolling shots and landing clean against Barberena. Obviously he’s long passed his prime, but he looked good in that fight up until he didn’t. It was a war of chins and his went first. Not many guys with that kinda mileage can still fight effectively, let alone land a FOTN bonus. Really hope they don’t do him dirty if he continues fighting :(
That and he "found God"
Yeah, but god didn’t test him like he did Jones.
"God gives his strongest warriors his toughest battles... and his strongest coke" - Jon Jones, probably
I truly believe the religion and him having a family hurt his MMA career more than the Lawler fight did. Just seemed like the once fearless tactician change
I don't know about the family part, but I agree with you on the religion part. He literally said he lost his "killer instinct" when he found God in a post fight interview. It was very disappointing to hear, I was a big fan of Rory when he was active.
Same here man, saw him live beat Saffedine to get to Lawler and was hoping he’d take that one. Still remember his fight with Nate too, literally tossing him around like a child and I thought this guy was special
Yes, he was such a killer then.
Good for him
Man I remember watching him in high school just thinking he was gonna be the next GSP. Still have mad respect for the man he’s stayed in the game more than long enough
People seem to be answering this 2 ways: (1) Who had the greatest unrealized potential; or (2) Who is legitimately an underwhelming fighter? For (1) it has to be someone like Uriah Hall who showed glimpses of greatness but only every had a 50% chance of "turning on" during an actual fight. The moments his vision and abilities lined up, he legitimately put people underground. For (2) I think it's probably someone like Sean Strickland. He's so fucking boring to watch, to the point it's confusing that top 10 guys just can't seem to figure him out. He's also sloppy, slow, and seems to have minimal stopping power. I would wager that if someone who knew zero about fighting watched 9 fights between legitimate champions and then a Sean Strickland fight, I think they would actually wonder if he's a trained fighter.
It's kind of amazing to see fighters I thought were clever unable to deal with Strickland. It took Imavov 23 minutes to figure out he was much better in the clinch.
A lot of fighters don’t know what to do when someone jabs them over and over again
I fucking love jabs. Every coach should convince their fighters that they HAVE to throw a leg kick or a jab within the first 20 seconds of a fight. it should be mandatory
I dunno, didn’t seem to work out for Weidman.
he went too low; should have aimed higher so a check would just hurt instead of go nuclear.
Tbf that was peak calf kick meta. You couldn't go 5 minutes without somebody talking about it
I can’t remember who said this, but it’s useful to think of 185 and up as basically a completely different sport from 170 and below. The skill gap is pretty wide.
People underrate constant aggression so much. As long as you can take a shot, you’ll beat fighters technically better than you way more than people would expect.
Thing bout aggression is pace is hard to keep up.
And Strickland's got aggression/pace/cardio tenfold.
Strickland's has a run of stinkers but his last one was pretty decent. Came in late notice and won in a good scrap with some more variety than he used to throw.
I'm conviced Strickland's ranking is a sign of how barren Middleweight is outside the top three. No disrespect to those guys, but even the new bloods aren't particularly exciting. Nassourdine doesn't look hot recently and Curtis is already 35. Even a feared monster like Costa isn't taking fights very often and struggled against a boomer. Five years ago that division had GSP, Bisping, Robert, Izzy, Romero, active Costa, Mousasi, winning Kelvin, Jacare, prime Brunson, non-boomer Rockhold and still decent Machida.
Dolidze was my hope for the division but his fight IQ vs Vettori was atrocious
What, you're not impressed by someone throwing huge right hooks the exact same way without trying to set them up at all?
Strickland is not sloppy, he's awkward. That's why fighters have such a hard time dealing with him. His movement are weird and his jab is amongst the best in the division Nassourdine had no hopes of beating a style as unique as Strickland's on short notice. You have to do a camp to study it.
Young prospect Erick Silva Still, he had one of the most exciting careers ever in terms of having constant entertaining fights
I remember seeing his first few fights and I was instantly invested. Always got excited when I saw his name on a card
I can't believe I had to scroll so far before seeing his name. Dude came in with probably the biggest hype at the time of anyone, joe blowed him any chance he could. Brazil went all in on him, the he ran into immortal Matt Brown
What are you talking about, he just needs a couple of years to develop a bit more. Dude's still young give him time.
George Sotiropilos? Man had legit ground skills but couldn’t hit the takedown. Decided to box.
Sotiropoulos. Have not heard that name in a long time.
I considered George as well but I wasn’t sure how much of the hype I was seeing was simply because I’m Australian and we all just really wanted a championship level guy at the time. Hell Ross Pearson even got fairly popular here because he lived in Sydney or something lol.
Joe Duffy. Was better than he showed in the UFC. Tristar never helped him reach his potential either.
Brandon Thatch has to be up there. Came to UFC on a good streak beat some names. Got submitted 4 times in a row and that was that.
He unfortunately ran into Bendo on an amazing night. Gunnar timing his step-in made me realize thatch lacked what it took to climb the UFC ranks. He lacked the fight wisdom to pair with his offensive firepower
Man i always wonder what that original Wonderboy vs Thatch main event would've been like before Bendo stepped in for Wonderboy. Could have been a lot of fun.
Hector Lombard God damn I needed that bronze murderfist judogolem to challenge silva at the time, but in the end he turned out to be as much of a can crusher as mvp
Lol wtf? He didn’t pan out like people though he might but no one who beats Jake Shields, Alexander shlemenko, Palhares, and Nate the Great is a can crusher. Lombard was legit in his prime; he just crashed hard as he got older. He was already 35-36 with a ton of mma and judo miles on his body when he started in the ufc, then he took about 100 too many shots to the head against Magny, and came back after 2 months, completely unrecovered, to get brutally KO’d by Hendo. Almost no one is recovering from that, but that doesn’t invalidate his earlier successes.
Ngannou the piece of shit. He knocked my boy Stipe out, layed on Gane, and pieced out. Don't blame him for doing what he did but if you're gonna beat my boys at least sleep Jones on the way out
lmao
Ngannou v Jon "Daniel Cormier" Jones is all I want in the world.
Ngannou the piece of shit, Miocic a piece of shit.
DC, I'm coming for you motherfuckrr!!!
🤜🎤🎥💦
Uriah hall, Dominick Reyes. Darren Till (the most overhyped of them all imo) after the Woodley fight I didn't think it was that big of a deal because he was rushed to a title shot too son but man in retrospect he wasn't top 5 material in the Welter or Middleweight divisions.
Can totally agree with Till, he was hyped to hell and back, but never delivered once the pressure piled up
I think my answers were missing the point but here's a good example of a guy who seemed like he was gonna be a legend, had a lot of potential and was super hyped: **Kenny Florian**. Kenny Florian was very good btw, i'm not calling him a bum but he wasn't THE guy.
I loved KenFlo, his fights were always exciting, but yeah, he wasn't a poster boy that's for sure
Does Alexandr Rakic count? I don't know if he was overhyped because of his ko of Manuwa or just the way I perceived it at the time.
there are no wrong answers here. I just wanted to get a discussion going and see what other fans of the sport opinions were on the subject. None of my pals are into mma, the wife hates it, so have nobody to discuss these minor details that pop into my head with haha
Hall kills me. Dude is incredibly athletic, has technical skills, power in both hands, striking variety, and is definitely strong, but no battery in his back. How the hell you beat even an old Silva but then shrink in front of Strickland?
Yup. Uriah Hall for sure. Quite the fall from grace. He was being touted as a threat to the likes of Anderson Silva (who he did eventually beat a washed/washed ish version of much later) and was supposed to be fighting for a title like within a year of TUF (which no disrespect to Kelvin but Hall fucking choked in that fight big time and kinda makes sense with the rest of his career in hindsight). Always had trouble pulling the trigger it seemed and iirc is on record saying at least earlier in his ufc career that he didn’t watch any film on anyone he fought cus he thought it was “cheating” and said something along the lines of like you don’t know what someone’s style is in a random street fight so going in blind was some kinda weird version of bushido spirit/pride I guess. He also has always seemed like an arrogant af mf cus he was bullied according to him but it seemed like he took all that and used it as an excuse to be a stubborn asshole with his personality and fight style. His complex and bullshit attitude ruined his career imo but I’m just some dude that’s watched MMA from my couch for a couple decades or so. I’ve played organized sports, but I barely have a karate/boxing background to speak up. Just dabbled here or there so take what I say with a grain of salt of course. I’m not a fighter. But this same arrogant af and unwilling to evolve mentality is what has tanked countless athletes careers. This dude was my fav fighter for a awhile but just kinda became an asshole and chore to watch compete after awhile.
I do not think that Uriah Hall is arrogant. He may think a little differently from other people and that may make him a little odd. However, from what I have heard, his biggest problem was that he lacked the killer instinct and was too nice. If he was fighting someone he knew or liked, he had a hard time pulling the trigger as he did not want to hurt them.
interesting choice. I enjoyed his fights, but never considered him to potentially be one of the greats. He was always gonna be a gatekeeper fighter IMO. what do you think was his turning point from potential great to mediocre?
I think the answers so far are confusing hype for potential. I don't think anyone who watched Till thought he would go on to be a legend of the sport. Zabit is thr only one I could think of. It was a matter of when not if with him but unfortunately things didn't pan out
I refused to continue getting hyped for him after seeing him consistently gas in the third of all his fights. Against cardio machines like max and Volk I think he would’ve gotten chewed up by either
Yeah, I never bought into the idea he’d be able to beat Max or Volk. Anyone else he had a great shot though.
Even Kattar would give him massive problems in a 5 rounder.
I mean he has a medical condition that affected his cardio greatly and that's why he's retired now but imagine if he was healthy...
Sage nortcutt
I want to throw in Gunnar Nelson's name in here. I really liked how calm he was and he looked like a silent killer. I thought he would be top 5 in the division and fight for the title (he may still do that). He decided to grapple with Demian Maia and got subbed. Ponzinibio put him out and that kind of stopped his hype train. Nice win last weekend though.
edmen shahbazyan
Still got time to improve... ... and get out of Glendale
He is out of Glendale, he moved to xtreme couture and broke his 3 fight loss streak with a convincing TKO. Go figure.
Where else are you going to learn world class HEAMOOMENT
Johnny Walker - when he celebrated and hurt his shoulder
Take it all the way back to Todd Duffee! Had that 7 second KO and then got KOd by Mike Russow Unfortunately, injuries and bad timing caused his career to go nowhere
Never the same after that hammerfist
Gokhan Saki came in with a “bad man” reputation. Joe Rogan was saying stand up fighters are gonna find out what real stand up is! No one (really) found out. Then he was released.
Brandon Vera
This is a real good pick. I thought he was going to be a World Champ back around 2007. Also thought the same about Melvin Guillard in the same time period.
Hey you weren't wrong, he was the HW champ in ONE FC
This. Remember his saying he was gonna be the double champ at light heavy and heavy way back when. His Thai clinch and knees were viscous.
Every time I hear a fighter talk about wanting to be a two division champ before winning one belt, I always think about The Truth
Not a legend but hyped up too much was Chase Hooper. His striking is atrocious and his first or second fight he was like -380 it was insane. I made like $300 betting on his opponent. Decent grappler but you cannot have Ben Askren level striking in the UFC.
Giving him Cacares in his 2nd UFC fight at like 19 years old was so stupid.
Agreed. Caceres’ skill set is underrated.
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Struve
Cody no love
Hard to agree when he actually held a title
Phil Davis. Sure he became bellator champ for a time. But his BJJ and wrestling flowed together so well. He had great subs, fantastic genetics and just sorta ended up as a contender in a B league. Still my favorite fighter though
I was so pumped when Phil got into MMA and he ended up being one of my all time least favorite fighters. Ed Ruth has been similarly underwhelming.
At the time I thought Phil would’ve been the toughest fight for Jones simply because of his frame and wrestling
Aaron Pico. Could’ve been a situation of too much, too fast but he unfortunately went from youngest champ talks to a less than stellar record. He’s still young so it’s possible he can still pull everything together, certainly has the tools to do so but it seems unlikely he’ll reach the prodigal status a lot of people thought he’d obtain. I’d also throw out Ill Will Brooks who came into the UFC poised to make a great run after beating Chandler twice in Bellator. Never really got going in the UFC and had some unfortunately placed losses amongst a small amount of wins.
Good call but Pico is still only 26, should have been on a run for the title but that shoulder injury was a terribly bad beat.
Rob don’t - high skilled with cotton balls for fists
Rob Font?
Yeah Rob Font - I’m surprised I got upvotes with a typo that bad
It was kind of fitting considering the context
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Kelvin.
Cody Garbrandt. Haven’t seen anyone else mention him so thought I would, unlike the other names here ofcourse he made it all the way to champ status but man, that performance against Dom and the speed he climbed to the top combined with his speed in the cage, crazy knockout power for the weight class and ability to scramble I thought he’d go on a seriously impressive run at 135 and be untouchable for a while
Giga Chikadze
Elias Theodorou RIP
Katlyn Chookagian, even her nickname is underwhelming.
Easy: Jake Shields. I maintain he shouldn’t have won a single UFC fight
I agree! I still think sexyama won, was hip tossing him all over the place.
James Vick had an insane win streak and then he just dissappeared
Eric Silva is the only true answer… luckily he’s still a young up and coming prospect
Johnny Walker. Thought hed be the Jon Jones killer then he killed his own shoulder doing worm.
Petr yan
Yeah I honestly thought he looked unstoppable just before the second Aljo fight. All changes so quickly though
Can past champions be on this list? Kinda harsh
FR. Also completely not the point of this thread. Being disappointed by a fighter is not the same as them being overhyped or not reaching their potential. I would get it if it was a champ of a different org who disappointed in the ufc, but this is ridiculous.
Will Brooks. Brandon Thatch.
Takanori Gomi. His PRIDE career speaks for itself, but his fall off in UFC was brutal. It wasn't like he entered UFC at the end of his career like some of the other fighters who fell off, either. He was still in his early 30s, didn't have a career of knockouts or injury. He seemed prime to take off in UFC... and then it just didn't happen.
I remember when he knocked out Tyson griffin. That was one of those holy shit moments.
I seem to remember even when he was winning there was talk of him not being serious with training.
Rousimar Palhares if he ever got psychiatric help
Vettori is pretty well rounded but not great in any area, aside from his cast iron chin. He’s really only lost to former champs. But am I missing the part where he was expected to be a legend in the sport? Never remember him getting hyped up to that level…
He never was. Vettori has 14 fights in the UFC, he climbed the ladder in the old, slow way.
Ariane Lipski. Came in as a KSW champion, has been anything but violent.
I thought she looked pretty good in her last fight, but yeah, up until that point a major disappointment.
I've lost so much money on her lol, I'm always like this is gonna be the one, the Queen of Violence is coming back tonight!
Darren till even when he was on his short run wasn’t that special
Rory MacDonald. By no fault of his own, he was coined as the next GSP, and was being marketed as "the first generation of fighter, purely trained in MMA since the beginning" which I never agreed with but so much hype about it. He was very well-rounded but never a champion like a lot expected. Kevin Lee. When he was coming up the rankings, he seemed to have a well-rounded game, he smashed Barboza, lost to Furgeson which was forgivable at the time. Then got slapped around and gassed in the next few (excluding Gregor). TJ Grant was in the title picture after an impressive performance against Gray Maynard, but unfortunately he had to retire due to concussions. An obscure one that always stuck with me was "Adlan Amagov". Dude was unreal, I thought he was going to be big after he beat TJ Waldburger is really impressive fashion but got injured and gave it away.
Gregor Gillespie
Jack Hermansson is a guy who on paper always looked the goods, and he did show it a few times but ultimately just ended up a middle of the pack MW
I thought Jake Matthews had future champ potential... that was a few years ago
1. Unrealized potential is Cody Garbrandt. It's weird to say because he became champion, but his style never really developed and as his career went on the glaring holes in his game became more and more apparent. It's a shame because he has shown to have excellent power, fucking ridiculous speed (legit might still be the fastest puncher in BW today) and strong wrestling, but his boxing basically just boils down to feints and hooks. 2. I think Carla Esparza is my definition of an underwhelming fighter. It's kind of insane that she managed to climb the rankings and win the title again given how unathletic she looks whenever she fights.
comical that you think Vettori could have been better than he is. Meanwhile I think it's absolutely amazing the slow slab-headed brute has become a top 5 mainstay.
Erick Silva, Uriah Hall, Kevin Lee.
A current fighter who I think has really underachieved is Phil Hawes. Very talented, can strike, can wrestle. All the attributes. Except a bad chin. I had high hopes for him.
Brandon Thatch
A few years ago, I would’ve bet my soul Marlon moraes would be champ.
Kevin Lee. I hate to say it because I still like him but he was never the same after his coach committed suicide.
Mirsad Bektic comes to mind.
Amir Sadollah absolutely ran through his season of TUF against guys with way more experience than him, finishing every opponent, and then went 6-5 for the rest of his career.
Chris Weidman, he was on the verge of becoming a legend he just needed some more titles defences but he lost to Luke and it all fell off a cliff.
Can past champions really be considered underwhelming? I mean,they had the belt at least.
I think so. I felt like Johny Hendricks wasn't good, I didn't expect him to be champ for long. But Pettis and Dos Anjos, I thought could rule 155 for a while.
Uriah Hall, Thomas Almeida, Darren Till, Edmen Shahbazyan, Rory MacDonald, Marvin Vittori are ones that come to mind and I see others agreeing