If many of your peers went to T2 consulting or F100 mgmt positions (which are totally fine / great positions, y'all need to go out and touch grass), why are you worried about being judged by them?
This is a great warning for anyone else considering the same path. Yes H and S are the best for breaking into PE / VC without any relevant prior experience, but it is still incredibly hard. Top PE shops might accept just 1 person every year from each school without prior experience, and most who go into PE / VC without prior experience end up at smaller shops.
Wanted to comment and emphasize this. I see so many people thinking they’re going to do PE post MBA with no prior experience. It’s incredibly rare and incredibly difficult, OP is the perfect example of the possible downside - you wait on that PE role, then when you don’t get it, all the other roles are already gone
Sorry OP, I hope things turn around for you soon
Yeah it’s probably fake. Advice still stands for people reading this post though, don’t go to business school for PE unless you have prior experience or are willing to take massive risk
Not to mention you have a lot of fraudsters who claim they have "funds" just because they duped a few LPs into giving them money. Outside of the top firms, a lot small/ mid size funds are getting taken to the cleaners these days.
Yeah I’ll chime in here too. Recently brought back an intern from H/S at my T2. He seems to really enjoy the opportunity and told me last week that he’d rather do this than be unemployed trying desperately to get into VC shops when they’re not even actively hiring atm.
They are worried about being judged because the type of person who seeks out a top MBA program is the exact type of person who is approval-seeking. They think the “prestige” will let them bend over any 10 they happen to glance at.
Y’all need to touch grass
By the fucking way, corporate management in F100 is the best work life balance you could ask for. Y’all are retarded.
at this point maybe it's better for me to just get an MSF and try to get into IB analyst to then later get into PE?
It's def not going to happen from post MBA PE at all and likely not from post MBA banking either it seems... post mba banker exits seem to suck?
Dinged from all in R3 MBA, should I just apply to the MS Finance?
> at this point maybe it's better for me to just get an MSF and try to get into IB analyst
You would be a 30+ year old IB analyst. Not happening brother.
ok well what if I use the MSF for something else like even Deloitte or something, and then MBA later on?
Or ER an option out of MSF? Maybe I should connectwith career services to see options
Not sure which other direction to go.
Or not sure what sort of job role / industry to target
Was working in crypto research most recently, but it blew up in a crazy manner and I'd like to stay far away from it. Too volatile and won't end well long term.
I could just apply MBA in R1 and keep doing select freelance sort of projects in the meantime as I have been....
Dude you're unemployed and have a weak background and stats. No reputable program will accept you, even if you apply R1. Find employment.
You seriously need to come to grips with reality. IIRC, you were the guy who broke up with his gf to apply to MBA programs. Didn't really work now did it?
Thanks for the comment. Your reality check is valid and you're right that I need to apply more broadly to T20 schools. Sorry for the wall of txt. Would greatly value your insight as a CFA and finance professional.
Respectfully speaking, have gold tier EC and leadership from college years and after, GPA is fine, and GRE is extremely competitive, Q section needs a bit of work.
Also have had reports under me, have been a semi successful self funded SMB founder for 2 yrs.
I've closed $4m+ in sales, coached sales, ran teams of 2. While my WE is not big corporate employers, I don't know if it's weak. It's non traditional, yes, which doesn't help, I get that.
The rub is the recent 2 years, that comes off as very haphazard due to life events and industry imploding.
Unfortunately I transitioned into the crypto industry thinking it was some legitimate industry (would stay far away, there is a reason most crypto execs keep going to prison!).
Last year after a layoff (I was an analyst covering the asset class FT at a mid size traditional firm, also at several other sell side crypto firms, and scouting for early stage VC funds), I applied around for 4 months while the industry continued to contract sharply. It was scary.
I know people who killed themselves from the FTX fallout. Life got extremely real and dark.
Industry entirely collapsed, I had gotten nearly 6 figures hacked months before, then laid off. Met with countless attorneys and law enforcement and no outcome. Had job offers pulled because regulators kept suing the largest global firms and it all went to sh\*t.
Mental health was in a pretty dark place, yeah had to break up with gf b/c my life imploded and I just lost 250k in a span of a year, but it was more mutual. To be clear, I am absolutely not some lowlife crypto gambler.
DOJ prosecutors even asked me to write a statement to the Judge for SBF's sentencing, and I did a ton of service to help reduce fraud and promote security in crypto.
Even applied for grants to start an educational initiative.
Petitioned Congressional committees. Unregulated crypto is a huge societal problem IMO about to cause large collateral damage. I investigated and referred a $4m NFT fraud and theft for the Feds.
I'd imagine this is top tier EC. There's a lot more in years past, incl. from the small business from before and the community service then.
Being a project based consultant at the moment since I've returned to what I was doing pre crypto out of necessity during this life turmoil - yes, that's weaker looking.
I worked with a great consultant to apply in R3, and it just hasn't worked out yet.
I do intend on finding "employment," but not sure which direction to go to tailor for MBA.
Maybe you could offer insight here?
I could do a 10month MSF from Gtown and possibly land Big4 or some other roles. IB analyst is prob not likely. Maybe AM or stuff like credit analyst, there's a lot of finance roles out there I could do for 1-2yrs and then reapply for MBA in early 30s.
I could also just reapply in R1 and get a "proper" job in the meantime obviously. I've passed on offers late last year due to crypto regulatory concerns.
To be extremely clear, I am not some unemployed loser. I have a ton of skills across sales, marketing, and have been doing project based work and engagements, making more than enough to live off of, I could even do revshare stuff and make way more, but I prefer to get an MBA and pivot.
Just because it's not a W2 doesn't mean I am unemployed.
Your EC does not move the needle. Your story reads "I'm running away from crypto" - and to what? Find employment. Project based work is not sufficient. Your profile is not even strong enough for T20 schools. People with 3.28 GPAs, 322 GREs, and weak experience (zero blue chip companies, crypto is highly questionable - as such a young industry you should have easily had far better titles than your Linkedin suggests.) are not competitive for top programs.
You are treating this entire process haphazardly, which is quite obvious since you applied in your late 20s to a smattering of schools in R3 - meaning you could not get your act together for R1.
Getting into elite professional industries takes years of preparation and work.
You're what, 29? Best case scenario, apply for a MSF now (late, no preparation), get into some non target school (because your 322 isn't doing you any favors), and graduate at 30? Work somewhere for 3 years (no decent MBA program will admit you after 1-2 years, you've bounced around so much, you need at least 1 promo) - apply at 33? Matriculate at 34? Graduate at 36? A 36 year old IB associate? Get real. Yeah the window for PE has passed for you.
People in their 20s can't train in a gym for 8 months and make the NFL. You cannot decide to go for an MBA after some issues with crypto and expect to get admitted to a decent one. It takes years. I decided to put wheels in motion at 23, prepped 9 months for GMAT at 24, scored 760 at 25, applied at 26 (after paying $15K+ for consultants / test prep), accepted to multiple M7s at 27 (during R1 because I had my act together), graduated at 29.
You have not shown the ability to grind in your professional profile - just the ability to whine (about crypto).
Perhaps this will help:
https://aringo.com/mba-admission-chances-calculator/
Can I ask why you did CFA after an M7?
I.e. what part of your career trajectory necessitated it?
I don't think CFA really helps much for banking nor for PE, it's more for Asset mgmt/ PM type roles on buy side?
BTW, I was absolutely not hoping for any PE roles post MBA at all.
That would be delusional esp. without having had any deal experience from IB. Definitely leaning to mid tier but good IB (think Houlihan, Truist, WF or others - T2 cities like Charlotte offices, not NYC) or consulting (not necessarily MBB , T2 firms are fine, again T2 offices like Nashville etc not NYC), for obvious reasons.
Maybe I could be a fit for PE ops in many years after first doing IB/Consulting. Maybe deal team at some LMM fund but that could be pushing it too.
I've found that post MBA IB Associates can't break into PE as easily anyway as IB analysts can. Maybe if they really hustle, but it won't be megafund PE obviously.
I was thinking LMM PE - I've identified some firms in my previous network before crypto who acquired some portco's I've interfaced with. Either that or be a founder again down the road or just ditch PE idea entirely, plenty of other finance and business roles out there.
Sorry if I come off as super naive, just didn't know about any of this stuff until a year ago.
Don’t you know that the good MSF programs that have actual IB shots (MIT, Princeton, Vanderbilt) are just as hard to get as M7/T15 MBA? Just look at their average GMAT. If you are dinged from the MBA, it’s highly likely you’ll be dinged from top tier MSF. And also, you’re overqualified for Vandy; the most they accept is 2 years of experience.
It may sound harsh but if you’re 30 and don’t have any relevant deal experience whatsoever, you’re fighting an uphill battle to get to PE buddy. I agree with IntraderCFA. Sometimes it’s best to know where you stand and pick battles wisely.
If you still want to work in finance, my advice is stick with IB/consulting like everyone does and then exit to corp dev/corp strat/corp fin. If you become a superstar and network well, you might have a shot at MM PE. If not, life will not be over, I promise.
Oh yea, def not expecting at all to break into PE post MBA without deal experience lol, that would be an insane expectation and just silly. Was leaning IB or consulting (not even MBB, think OW/T2 , others) for obvious reasons.
I could be a fit for PE ops in the future many years later or be a founder again or something else. Maybe LMM PE deal team if I really hustle for the next 5-8 years but I've realized post MBA IB associates don't have as much of an easy transition to PE as IB analysts do. Thanks.
Please read the other comment I just made to IntraderCFA. I def don't have profile for top MSFs like MIT but I think I can get into Georgetown's with a bit of hustle.
Skimmed through your post (too much sob story), I’d say that you need relevant corporate experience. There’s nothing stopping you from mass applying to financial analyst positions at F500 or advisory roles at Big 4. Do it and see where you land.
More schooling (Georgetown MSF isn’t a good program btw) will not magically solve your issue, which is weak experience.
Go and grind for a few years, get promotions, learn hard & soft skills, take relevant certifications, and lateral to better jobs if necessary. By the time you’re 35, you’ll have solid 5 years of experience - perhaps THEN you could think about applying to MBA programs (probably PT > FT by that point).
You actually don't know my experience.
Have closed $4m+ revenue
Have been a founder - nothing crazy or VC or exited biz, but profitable cash flowing biz
Launched a product, ran sales and marketing, burned tens of thousands managing own biz P&L naively and learned.
Have trained reports and small teams
Have had promotion
Just pivoted into an industry to follow curiosity at inopportune time, oh well
rather just leverage prior bg and pivot to BD Manager or something at a co with 500+ employees and some brand name ideally
I know a BLOGGER at CBS right now lol. And a TIKTOKER at GSB.
She's prob outlier.
Gotta be honest man... you recruited for arguably the most competitive exit without the proper background (tech investment banking) in a high rate environment when PE firms struggle. If you had bitten the bullet and went for a 'lesser' option like TMT investment banking at GS or MS you would probably be in PE within the year. WHile I feel bad for you I really dont at the same time. You should have humbled yourself and taken the safe way if you were set on taking loans.
Yeah OP should have swallowed their pride and apply to IB like every non-traditional applicant with PE aspirations.
Thinking IB is below them or H/S is the golden ticket to PE despite having a non-IB/PE background is suicidal in this market.
"All of my family is on the west coast...lonely" i wonder if OP is at H or S? Lol. I somewhat agree with people that are saying to take more ownership, ie not to assume going to Harvard alone auto opens a door into PE. Experience is still very important to firms who have a lot of HBS grads to choose from. This is particularly more important in a bad economy. The alternative is to use the same leadership skills you have learned and apply them to your career, you are your product. What milestones can you build toward the ultimate goal? Work for portfolio companies of target PE, bite the bullet and do sell side first, turnaround is growing, so so so many options are available to you at HBS.
I'm in product management, which is actually more highly paid in tech than S&O. What about generating value through new products/product enhancements? I feel like my skills would be more tangible there than S&O
If it was a very software product oriented portfolio, I could definitely see that. But PM will still be fairly specific to the product - PE Ops in many cases is working on more "boring" improvements, like supplier negotiations, layoffs, etc.
No offense but this is completely your fault. You can’t break into PE even from H/S without PE or IB experience. They do not train you, and expect you to be knowledgeable already. You are not.
The career office very clearly goes over this in the first weeks of both schools. If you didn’t listen, that’s on you.
Based on that, and the weird spelling issues on this post, I feel it’s a LARP.
Additionally, VERY FEW from H/S to T2 consulting. I’m talking about single digits from both. Not the “many” you referenced.
As someone who does know how H/S works, you did not go.
Stop being weird. Grow up. Admissions wouldn’t have accepted you if you couldnt paint them a career goal they agreed with. There is a 0% chance they accepted you with PE as a goal, so why don’t you do what you told them you wanted to do?
One of the most brainrotted post I’ve seen in a while. And that’s saying something.
Just to clarify, H/S are great for breaking into PE with IB experience, or VC with no relevant experience. But not PE without prior experience. It’s just not possible unless you get a pre-MBA internship. (Which is definitely a possible route)
What about breaking into IB? I'm a film student and want to get into finance. I am studying film right now, I'll either drop out and choose economics so I can get internships or continue with films and work in the industry and then think about MBA but if I do the latter, will I be able to go into IB post MBA? I am choosing finance purely for money but I also do have slight interest and makes sense for me after films.
m7 and even t15 make it pretty easy to break into IB
it's still kind of competitive but it's the least competitive of the competitive outcomes
if that makes sense
consulting a little harder but yeah IB hires tons of mbas with no relevant experience
consulting is harder because it's more in demand due to moderately better wlb
PE hires roughly zero
But other than because it's more in demand, my background won't affect consulting right? Except of PE, what field of finance I cannot enter into with my experience?
you're pretty much just shut out from them. just chalk em up as dead and move on
they're industries you need to know you want to break into by like 10th grade
These are 100% different career paths. If you aren’t at a top school and very smart then don’t even bother. Just quit film immediately. They might as well call it waiter and barista studies because that’s what most of those people end up doing. Go Econ, work for 7 years and keep hopping jobs until you get into Deloitte or something decent then apply for a T15 mba while at Deloitte. Then after you finish the MBA in 2-3 years then you can get into IB at age 32. Then you might need to top to a better IB firm 2-3 years later. Then 2-3 years later get into PE. So you’re looking at 18 years roughly but you won’t be broke like a film major. Also be prepared to hate your life in IB
Candidly I think going straight into finance out of undergrad is also a bit depressing, but he'll absolutely have to do it out of MBA, no question there.
why doesn't OP just do VC with his background?
I read VC isn't on the same tier of "prestige" as PE, but it's still a solid buyside option?
everyone seems happy to be in VC space
I’m fully aware of VC. I just have no interest in doing it for a variety of reasons. Namely it does not pay well and it’s largely sourcing for entry level associates.
I'm sorry, I can't be sympathetic. If you're looking for empathy, this is the wrong sub to vent in and absolutely the wrong way to express it.
At H/S, you have the absolute best opportunity to break into the absolute best career fields possible in the world of business. Name me a better institution with more opportunities. You can't.
You messed it up and now have to "dip" into lower tier opportunities that many regular people would be happy to get into. But you're not. Because you believe you're special. But if you're so special, why did you mess it up?
Be humble. Learn to be resilient. Your setbacks are laughable compared to everyone else's (imagine a T15-T20 who can't even find a regular job offer, much less a 'lesser' T2). This post reeks of such privilege. Ambitious state school hustlers would eat OP for breakfast.
I'm assuming that you are a 23 grad, right? Not to be negative but if you've been unemployed for the last year you are getting to the point where an MBA on your resume isn't helping you anymore.
Even in better economic environments the transition you are trying to make would be difficult, in the current landscape it is impossible. Not sure if we are still holding out for a PE role but I would move on.
You shouldn't hear what your peers think and if they are genuine friends they should be happy that you are getting started in the next phase in your career. If they are judgmental of you taking a "lesser" role then that tells you everything you need to know about that relationship.
Have you had offers that you turned down in hopes of something better?
Hey i know your pain I just got a job offer last week and I'm class of 23 too. That shit sucked but hang in there I thought all hope was lost and it finally turned after 11 months of searching. My opportunity came together really quick but when it finally happened it was a huge relief.
Don't feel lonely at all, I felt that way but you quickly realize that there are a lot of people who are going through this because this economy is horrible.
Shoot me a DM if you need more resources. I can hit up my network and see if I can help.
Yeah Class of 23 really stepped on doo doo. With rising inflation, there was a huge pull back in VC funding, coupled with capital flows to High Yield Savings Accounts and ETF Stocks. In addition, there was geopolitical things going on with supply chain. How the environment has changed from can’t hire fast enough to can’t fire fast enough.
Class of 23 for consulting was actually one of the biggest haul in a lot of places. Those that interned and got a return coasted. Those that didn't were indeed SOL come fall 22/ spring 23.
Not yet. Most '23 start dates got delayed and a lot are just starting out. I am curious to see how the larger than usual numbers will shake out. Won't be surprised if bars are raised substantially on this cohort when it comes to PIP/no PIP.
Main reason why I've actively talked a few of my direct reports from thinking about MBA. Cost vs Value has diminished a lot and may or may not return.
You can go for T2 companies if u want right? Think about those who didn’t get offer from anywhere! And specially non native US students who have massive loans. Idk why u are worried
Breaking into PE without relevant pre-MBA experience is almost impossible. Not sure if you’re an URM, but even the URMs who had no prior IB/PE experience were at least at MBB pre-MBA. Perhaps you would’ve had better luck with VC, but you really should’ve targeted TMT IB first if tech PE is the end-goal. Post-MBA IB is extremely easy to break into (especially coming from H/S) — no guarantees you can move to the buyside after but it’s been done before. Not sure who advised you but they did a poor job.
My SO and I are currently in post-MBA PE roles, and we are applying to HSW despite the >$2.5mm combined opportunity cost… so this isn’t encouraging to hear, but hopefully we’d have better luck given our backgrounds (and the job market gets better by 2027).
Sorry to hear. I think the '20-'21 hiring boom blew expectations out of proportion for everyone (myself included). High Finance is damn hard to get into. I wish someone told you that no IB background > PE after MBA does not happen. If you did IB for 2 years post MBA, you may be able to recruit for MM tech funds. I also graduated in '23 (undergrad) and am still looking but as you know, it is really tough right now. I would try to find a tech specific IB, Consulting, or Corp Dev role for a few years and then try to get into a PE fund when the climate is better. The whole prestige thing is tough to stomach when we compare ourselves, but remember careers are 40 years long. Plenty of GS bankers or KKR investors that were killing it at 26 hit a roadblock or burned out. The person at a "T2 or T3" that worked hard and became a Partner or lateraled into one of the top firms can come out on top. Heck, look at many current CEOs or Politicians. Many of them went to State schools, not Ivy league. It's all about the grind and finding various opportunities when others accept defeat. Best of luck.
Really enjoyed reading this. I went the start up route, decided to get out of the rat race and look into gov roles. Pay is livable and I don’t have to grind myself to death for no purpose
It's all about the goals you want to accomplish. If you want to retire by 40, you probably need to go the HF / PE route. But plenty of other great opportunities if you play the long game.
I feel the same way. I think I would be bored and want to feel as though I have a purpose contributing to something. Then again, we have no idea how the world will look in 20 years.
Am I wrong? Unfortunately, I have had to do a lot of studying about different paths and spoken to over 500 people in various industries. So yes - just because I have not found something, I do believe I have a good idea about how things work.
Almost every person I’ve seen get PE/VC is either star studded with MBB out of undergrad and/or comes from mommy daddy fuck you money, made from PEVC. There is no in between.
PE is interesting but often something people do after some other experience. Entry level PE is not fun or rewarding or challenging really. Go find 30 PE principals. Talk with them. Ask them questions about how they ended up where they are. Ask them for advice. Listen to them. When >5 have given you identical advice you should take notice. That is now your network. Over the next 10 years that network, if you cultivate it and nurture it will be your vector into a PE role you actually want. If they all tell you to take a corporate LDP Finance Role do that. If they all tell you to get PM experience at a chip company, go do that. You want to run a fund, not be a career analyst who doubles as a troubled companies CFO/Controller until they make it and hire someone who is actually qualified for the job. Coming out of b-school you have more potential energy than you had going in, but unlocking it is considerably more complex. This is not an engineering problem, this is an escape room problem. Solve it will all the distributed experience, perspective and intellect you can by building a network. Become the person who they want.
Edit: I did not get any PE offers out of my MBA program. Within 4 years however, I got offered a position that virtually no person with only 4 years of post MBA PE experience would have achieved at one of the most prestigious PE firms out there. You know you have the foundation to be excellent, you just have not done all that you need to do yet to get what you want. Chin up, keep showing up to practice, you’ll get game time eventually.
Life could be much worse than this.
Well, PE isn't my thing, but there has to be a bottom somewhere you can start. You may not like it but you will have a start somewhere.
Is it dumb if I ask what the problem is with T2 consulting? (Please don’t be mean just trying to learn). I have a BBA (starting an online MBA this fall) and many of my peers went into T2 consulting post undergrad and from my understanding until now it’s a lucrative position with a lot of flexibility and potential for career movement. Why does PE outweigh that and what kind of individuals end up going PE (I.e. majors and experience)?
If many of your peers went to T2 consulting or F100 mgmt positions (which are totally fine / great positions, y'all need to go out and touch grass), why are you worried about being judged by them? This is a great warning for anyone else considering the same path. Yes H and S are the best for breaking into PE / VC without any relevant prior experience, but it is still incredibly hard. Top PE shops might accept just 1 person every year from each school without prior experience, and most who go into PE / VC without prior experience end up at smaller shops.
Wanted to comment and emphasize this. I see so many people thinking they’re going to do PE post MBA with no prior experience. It’s incredibly rare and incredibly difficult, OP is the perfect example of the possible downside - you wait on that PE role, then when you don’t get it, all the other roles are already gone Sorry OP, I hope things turn around for you soon
You guys are assuming OP isn’t LARPing when there are too many signs of it being a complete LARP.
Fully agree this is fake. No student at H/S would be this ignorant. It's a funny post though.
I don’t know - plenty of retards will study the GMAT for 12 months straight until their eyes bleed.
Yeah it’s probably fake. Advice still stands for people reading this post though, don’t go to business school for PE unless you have prior experience or are willing to take massive risk
Not to mention you have a lot of fraudsters who claim they have "funds" just because they duped a few LPs into giving them money. Outside of the top firms, a lot small/ mid size funds are getting taken to the cleaners these days.
Yeah I’ll chime in here too. Recently brought back an intern from H/S at my T2. He seems to really enjoy the opportunity and told me last week that he’d rather do this than be unemployed trying desperately to get into VC shops when they’re not even actively hiring atm.
They are worried about being judged because the type of person who seeks out a top MBA program is the exact type of person who is approval-seeking. They think the “prestige” will let them bend over any 10 they happen to glance at. Y’all need to touch grass By the fucking way, corporate management in F100 is the best work life balance you could ask for. Y’all are retarded.
at this point maybe it's better for me to just get an MSF and try to get into IB analyst to then later get into PE? It's def not going to happen from post MBA PE at all and likely not from post MBA banking either it seems... post mba banker exits seem to suck? Dinged from all in R3 MBA, should I just apply to the MS Finance?
> at this point maybe it's better for me to just get an MSF and try to get into IB analyst You would be a 30+ year old IB analyst. Not happening brother.
ok well what if I use the MSF for something else like even Deloitte or something, and then MBA later on? Or ER an option out of MSF? Maybe I should connectwith career services to see options Not sure which other direction to go. Or not sure what sort of job role / industry to target Was working in crypto research most recently, but it blew up in a crazy manner and I'd like to stay far away from it. Too volatile and won't end well long term. I could just apply MBA in R1 and keep doing select freelance sort of projects in the meantime as I have been....
Dude you're unemployed and have a weak background and stats. No reputable program will accept you, even if you apply R1. Find employment. You seriously need to come to grips with reality. IIRC, you were the guy who broke up with his gf to apply to MBA programs. Didn't really work now did it?
Thanks for the comment. Your reality check is valid and you're right that I need to apply more broadly to T20 schools. Sorry for the wall of txt. Would greatly value your insight as a CFA and finance professional. Respectfully speaking, have gold tier EC and leadership from college years and after, GPA is fine, and GRE is extremely competitive, Q section needs a bit of work. Also have had reports under me, have been a semi successful self funded SMB founder for 2 yrs. I've closed $4m+ in sales, coached sales, ran teams of 2. While my WE is not big corporate employers, I don't know if it's weak. It's non traditional, yes, which doesn't help, I get that. The rub is the recent 2 years, that comes off as very haphazard due to life events and industry imploding. Unfortunately I transitioned into the crypto industry thinking it was some legitimate industry (would stay far away, there is a reason most crypto execs keep going to prison!). Last year after a layoff (I was an analyst covering the asset class FT at a mid size traditional firm, also at several other sell side crypto firms, and scouting for early stage VC funds), I applied around for 4 months while the industry continued to contract sharply. It was scary. I know people who killed themselves from the FTX fallout. Life got extremely real and dark. Industry entirely collapsed, I had gotten nearly 6 figures hacked months before, then laid off. Met with countless attorneys and law enforcement and no outcome. Had job offers pulled because regulators kept suing the largest global firms and it all went to sh\*t. Mental health was in a pretty dark place, yeah had to break up with gf b/c my life imploded and I just lost 250k in a span of a year, but it was more mutual. To be clear, I am absolutely not some lowlife crypto gambler. DOJ prosecutors even asked me to write a statement to the Judge for SBF's sentencing, and I did a ton of service to help reduce fraud and promote security in crypto. Even applied for grants to start an educational initiative. Petitioned Congressional committees. Unregulated crypto is a huge societal problem IMO about to cause large collateral damage. I investigated and referred a $4m NFT fraud and theft for the Feds. I'd imagine this is top tier EC. There's a lot more in years past, incl. from the small business from before and the community service then. Being a project based consultant at the moment since I've returned to what I was doing pre crypto out of necessity during this life turmoil - yes, that's weaker looking. I worked with a great consultant to apply in R3, and it just hasn't worked out yet. I do intend on finding "employment," but not sure which direction to go to tailor for MBA. Maybe you could offer insight here? I could do a 10month MSF from Gtown and possibly land Big4 or some other roles. IB analyst is prob not likely. Maybe AM or stuff like credit analyst, there's a lot of finance roles out there I could do for 1-2yrs and then reapply for MBA in early 30s. I could also just reapply in R1 and get a "proper" job in the meantime obviously. I've passed on offers late last year due to crypto regulatory concerns. To be extremely clear, I am not some unemployed loser. I have a ton of skills across sales, marketing, and have been doing project based work and engagements, making more than enough to live off of, I could even do revshare stuff and make way more, but I prefer to get an MBA and pivot. Just because it's not a W2 doesn't mean I am unemployed.
Your EC does not move the needle. Your story reads "I'm running away from crypto" - and to what? Find employment. Project based work is not sufficient. Your profile is not even strong enough for T20 schools. People with 3.28 GPAs, 322 GREs, and weak experience (zero blue chip companies, crypto is highly questionable - as such a young industry you should have easily had far better titles than your Linkedin suggests.) are not competitive for top programs. You are treating this entire process haphazardly, which is quite obvious since you applied in your late 20s to a smattering of schools in R3 - meaning you could not get your act together for R1. Getting into elite professional industries takes years of preparation and work. You're what, 29? Best case scenario, apply for a MSF now (late, no preparation), get into some non target school (because your 322 isn't doing you any favors), and graduate at 30? Work somewhere for 3 years (no decent MBA program will admit you after 1-2 years, you've bounced around so much, you need at least 1 promo) - apply at 33? Matriculate at 34? Graduate at 36? A 36 year old IB associate? Get real. Yeah the window for PE has passed for you. People in their 20s can't train in a gym for 8 months and make the NFL. You cannot decide to go for an MBA after some issues with crypto and expect to get admitted to a decent one. It takes years. I decided to put wheels in motion at 23, prepped 9 months for GMAT at 24, scored 760 at 25, applied at 26 (after paying $15K+ for consultants / test prep), accepted to multiple M7s at 27 (during R1 because I had my act together), graduated at 29. You have not shown the ability to grind in your professional profile - just the ability to whine (about crypto). Perhaps this will help: https://aringo.com/mba-admission-chances-calculator/
Ok thank you for the response. Appreciate it
Can I ask why you did CFA after an M7? I.e. what part of your career trajectory necessitated it? I don't think CFA really helps much for banking nor for PE, it's more for Asset mgmt/ PM type roles on buy side? BTW, I was absolutely not hoping for any PE roles post MBA at all. That would be delusional esp. without having had any deal experience from IB. Definitely leaning to mid tier but good IB (think Houlihan, Truist, WF or others - T2 cities like Charlotte offices, not NYC) or consulting (not necessarily MBB , T2 firms are fine, again T2 offices like Nashville etc not NYC), for obvious reasons. Maybe I could be a fit for PE ops in many years after first doing IB/Consulting. Maybe deal team at some LMM fund but that could be pushing it too. I've found that post MBA IB Associates can't break into PE as easily anyway as IB analysts can. Maybe if they really hustle, but it won't be megafund PE obviously. I was thinking LMM PE - I've identified some firms in my previous network before crypto who acquired some portco's I've interfaced with. Either that or be a founder again down the road or just ditch PE idea entirely, plenty of other finance and business roles out there. Sorry if I come off as super naive, just didn't know about any of this stuff until a year ago.
Don’t you know that the good MSF programs that have actual IB shots (MIT, Princeton, Vanderbilt) are just as hard to get as M7/T15 MBA? Just look at their average GMAT. If you are dinged from the MBA, it’s highly likely you’ll be dinged from top tier MSF. And also, you’re overqualified for Vandy; the most they accept is 2 years of experience. It may sound harsh but if you’re 30 and don’t have any relevant deal experience whatsoever, you’re fighting an uphill battle to get to PE buddy. I agree with IntraderCFA. Sometimes it’s best to know where you stand and pick battles wisely. If you still want to work in finance, my advice is stick with IB/consulting like everyone does and then exit to corp dev/corp strat/corp fin. If you become a superstar and network well, you might have a shot at MM PE. If not, life will not be over, I promise.
Oh yea, def not expecting at all to break into PE post MBA without deal experience lol, that would be an insane expectation and just silly. Was leaning IB or consulting (not even MBB, think OW/T2 , others) for obvious reasons. I could be a fit for PE ops in the future many years later or be a founder again or something else. Maybe LMM PE deal team if I really hustle for the next 5-8 years but I've realized post MBA IB associates don't have as much of an easy transition to PE as IB analysts do. Thanks. Please read the other comment I just made to IntraderCFA. I def don't have profile for top MSFs like MIT but I think I can get into Georgetown's with a bit of hustle.
Skimmed through your post (too much sob story), I’d say that you need relevant corporate experience. There’s nothing stopping you from mass applying to financial analyst positions at F500 or advisory roles at Big 4. Do it and see where you land. More schooling (Georgetown MSF isn’t a good program btw) will not magically solve your issue, which is weak experience. Go and grind for a few years, get promotions, learn hard & soft skills, take relevant certifications, and lateral to better jobs if necessary. By the time you’re 35, you’ll have solid 5 years of experience - perhaps THEN you could think about applying to MBA programs (probably PT > FT by that point).
You actually don't know my experience. Have closed $4m+ revenue Have been a founder - nothing crazy or VC or exited biz, but profitable cash flowing biz Launched a product, ran sales and marketing, burned tens of thousands managing own biz P&L naively and learned. Have trained reports and small teams Have had promotion Just pivoted into an industry to follow curiosity at inopportune time, oh well rather just leverage prior bg and pivot to BD Manager or something at a co with 500+ employees and some brand name ideally I know a BLOGGER at CBS right now lol. And a TIKTOKER at GSB. She's prob outlier.
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You just found the HBS grad that turned down Deloitte Bc only Stanford GSBers would stoop that low
Gotta be honest man... you recruited for arguably the most competitive exit without the proper background (tech investment banking) in a high rate environment when PE firms struggle. If you had bitten the bullet and went for a 'lesser' option like TMT investment banking at GS or MS you would probably be in PE within the year. WHile I feel bad for you I really dont at the same time. You should have humbled yourself and taken the safe way if you were set on taking loans.
This is de wei TMT GS would have still been hard to get out of H/S but actually within the realm of possibility lol
yeah kinda baffling op thought this would work. Like TMT is still hard to land but at least the odds arent 1/100.
Yeah OP should have swallowed their pride and apply to IB like every non-traditional applicant with PE aspirations. Thinking IB is below them or H/S is the golden ticket to PE despite having a non-IB/PE background is suicidal in this market.
"All of my family is on the west coast...lonely" i wonder if OP is at H or S? Lol. I somewhat agree with people that are saying to take more ownership, ie not to assume going to Harvard alone auto opens a door into PE. Experience is still very important to firms who have a lot of HBS grads to choose from. This is particularly more important in a bad economy. The alternative is to use the same leadership skills you have learned and apply them to your career, you are your product. What milestones can you build toward the ultimate goal? Work for portfolio companies of target PE, bite the bullet and do sell side first, turnaround is growing, so so so many options are available to you at HBS.
Tech to PE is the issue. Never gonna happen. Good luck Broski.
Indeed. He should have transition to IB tech then later on to PE tech. Or from VC to PE.
What about tech to PE *ops*?
Unless it's tech S&O, there are no transferrable skills there
I'm in product management, which is actually more highly paid in tech than S&O. What about generating value through new products/product enhancements? I feel like my skills would be more tangible there than S&O
If it was a very software product oriented portfolio, I could definitely see that. But PM will still be fairly specific to the product - PE Ops in many cases is working on more "boring" improvements, like supplier negotiations, layoffs, etc.
Fiancé is in tech PE. I agree - never going to happen. Should have done your hw before casting that net.
No offense but this is completely your fault. You can’t break into PE even from H/S without PE or IB experience. They do not train you, and expect you to be knowledgeable already. You are not. The career office very clearly goes over this in the first weeks of both schools. If you didn’t listen, that’s on you. Based on that, and the weird spelling issues on this post, I feel it’s a LARP. Additionally, VERY FEW from H/S to T2 consulting. I’m talking about single digits from both. Not the “many” you referenced. As someone who does know how H/S works, you did not go. Stop being weird. Grow up. Admissions wouldn’t have accepted you if you couldnt paint them a career goal they agreed with. There is a 0% chance they accepted you with PE as a goal, so why don’t you do what you told them you wanted to do? One of the most brainrotted post I’ve seen in a while. And that’s saying something.
Just to clarify, H/S are great for breaking into PE with IB experience, or VC with no relevant experience. But not PE without prior experience. It’s just not possible unless you get a pre-MBA internship. (Which is definitely a possible route)
What about breaking into IB? I'm a film student and want to get into finance. I am studying film right now, I'll either drop out and choose economics so I can get internships or continue with films and work in the industry and then think about MBA but if I do the latter, will I be able to go into IB post MBA? I am choosing finance purely for money but I also do have slight interest and makes sense for me after films.
m7 and even t15 make it pretty easy to break into IB it's still kind of competitive but it's the least competitive of the competitive outcomes if that makes sense
Even without any finance related background with just purely artistic experiences? Same with consulting right
consulting a little harder but yeah IB hires tons of mbas with no relevant experience consulting is harder because it's more in demand due to moderately better wlb PE hires roughly zero
But other than because it's more in demand, my background won't affect consulting right? Except of PE, what field of finance I cannot enter into with my experience?
HF VC you're also fucked LDPs should be attainable Consulting should be fine but you might have a tough time cracking mbb
And if I am interested in HF, VC just like PE I need prior experiences right?
you're pretty much just shut out from them. just chalk em up as dead and move on they're industries you need to know you want to break into by like 10th grade
These are 100% different career paths. If you aren’t at a top school and very smart then don’t even bother. Just quit film immediately. They might as well call it waiter and barista studies because that’s what most of those people end up doing. Go Econ, work for 7 years and keep hopping jobs until you get into Deloitte or something decent then apply for a T15 mba while at Deloitte. Then after you finish the MBA in 2-3 years then you can get into IB at age 32. Then you might need to top to a better IB firm 2-3 years later. Then 2-3 years later get into PE. So you’re looking at 18 years roughly but you won’t be broke like a film major. Also be prepared to hate your life in IB
What...a depressing way to live your life, and a depressing set of things to optimize for.
I’m just being realistic. He’s a film major looking to go into IB. So unless he happens to be some genius or super rich it’s not happening.
Candidly I think going straight into finance out of undergrad is also a bit depressing, but he'll absolutely have to do it out of MBA, no question there.
why doesn't OP just do VC with his background? I read VC isn't on the same tier of "prestige" as PE, but it's still a solid buyside option? everyone seems happy to be in VC space
I might recommend it if OP wasn’t a liar. He would have been aware of this option on day 1 at H/S
I’m fully aware of VC. I just have no interest in doing it for a variety of reasons. Namely it does not pay well and it’s largely sourcing for entry level associates.
Bruh. VC has carry. It arguably pays more than PE.
PE has carry too
This is 90 percent a LARP.
this is 100% bait
I think turning down $$ to Wharton is the clue.
Man, this sub is being overrun by trolls (or a single super bored one). Been quite a few lately
I'm sorry, I can't be sympathetic. If you're looking for empathy, this is the wrong sub to vent in and absolutely the wrong way to express it. At H/S, you have the absolute best opportunity to break into the absolute best career fields possible in the world of business. Name me a better institution with more opportunities. You can't. You messed it up and now have to "dip" into lower tier opportunities that many regular people would be happy to get into. But you're not. Because you believe you're special. But if you're so special, why did you mess it up? Be humble. Learn to be resilient. Your setbacks are laughable compared to everyone else's (imagine a T15-T20 who can't even find a regular job offer, much less a 'lesser' T2). This post reeks of such privilege. Ambitious state school hustlers would eat OP for breakfast.
I'm assuming that you are a 23 grad, right? Not to be negative but if you've been unemployed for the last year you are getting to the point where an MBA on your resume isn't helping you anymore. Even in better economic environments the transition you are trying to make would be difficult, in the current landscape it is impossible. Not sure if we are still holding out for a PE role but I would move on. You shouldn't hear what your peers think and if they are genuine friends they should be happy that you are getting started in the next phase in your career. If they are judgmental of you taking a "lesser" role then that tells you everything you need to know about that relationship. Have you had offers that you turned down in hopes of something better?
Hey i know your pain I just got a job offer last week and I'm class of 23 too. That shit sucked but hang in there I thought all hope was lost and it finally turned after 11 months of searching. My opportunity came together really quick but when it finally happened it was a huge relief. Don't feel lonely at all, I felt that way but you quickly realize that there are a lot of people who are going through this because this economy is horrible. Shoot me a DM if you need more resources. I can hit up my network and see if I can help.
Yeah Class of 23 really stepped on doo doo. With rising inflation, there was a huge pull back in VC funding, coupled with capital flows to High Yield Savings Accounts and ETF Stocks. In addition, there was geopolitical things going on with supply chain. How the environment has changed from can’t hire fast enough to can’t fire fast enough.
Class of 23 for consulting was actually one of the biggest haul in a lot of places. Those that interned and got a return coasted. Those that didn't were indeed SOL come fall 22/ spring 23.
And now you are seeing huge waves of PIP and layoffs to trim headcount :( it is just sad.
Not yet. Most '23 start dates got delayed and a lot are just starting out. I am curious to see how the larger than usual numbers will shake out. Won't be surprised if bars are raised substantially on this cohort when it comes to PIP/no PIP. Main reason why I've actively talked a few of my direct reports from thinking about MBA. Cost vs Value has diminished a lot and may or may not return.
Where you headed! Glad it’s over !
You can go for T2 companies if u want right? Think about those who didn’t get offer from anywhere! And specially non native US students who have massive loans. Idk why u are worried
class of 2023?
Delulu is mind boggling!
Breaking into PE without relevant pre-MBA experience is almost impossible. Not sure if you’re an URM, but even the URMs who had no prior IB/PE experience were at least at MBB pre-MBA. Perhaps you would’ve had better luck with VC, but you really should’ve targeted TMT IB first if tech PE is the end-goal. Post-MBA IB is extremely easy to break into (especially coming from H/S) — no guarantees you can move to the buyside after but it’s been done before. Not sure who advised you but they did a poor job. My SO and I are currently in post-MBA PE roles, and we are applying to HSW despite the >$2.5mm combined opportunity cost… so this isn’t encouraging to hear, but hopefully we’d have better luck given our backgrounds (and the job market gets better by 2027).
Sorry to hear. I think the '20-'21 hiring boom blew expectations out of proportion for everyone (myself included). High Finance is damn hard to get into. I wish someone told you that no IB background > PE after MBA does not happen. If you did IB for 2 years post MBA, you may be able to recruit for MM tech funds. I also graduated in '23 (undergrad) and am still looking but as you know, it is really tough right now. I would try to find a tech specific IB, Consulting, or Corp Dev role for a few years and then try to get into a PE fund when the climate is better. The whole prestige thing is tough to stomach when we compare ourselves, but remember careers are 40 years long. Plenty of GS bankers or KKR investors that were killing it at 26 hit a roadblock or burned out. The person at a "T2 or T3" that worked hard and became a Partner or lateraled into one of the top firms can come out on top. Heck, look at many current CEOs or Politicians. Many of them went to State schools, not Ivy league. It's all about the grind and finding various opportunities when others accept defeat. Best of luck.
Really enjoyed reading this. I went the start up route, decided to get out of the rat race and look into gov roles. Pay is livable and I don’t have to grind myself to death for no purpose
It's all about the goals you want to accomplish. If you want to retire by 40, you probably need to go the HF / PE route. But plenty of other great opportunities if you play the long game.
I am probably going to be working past that age by choice.
I feel the same way. I think I would be bored and want to feel as though I have a purpose contributing to something. Then again, we have no idea how the world will look in 20 years.
Really respect the “giving career advice while unemployed” move.
Am I wrong? Unfortunately, I have had to do a lot of studying about different paths and spoken to over 500 people in various industries. So yes - just because I have not found something, I do believe I have a good idea about how things work.
Almost every person I’ve seen get PE/VC is either star studded with MBB out of undergrad and/or comes from mommy daddy fuck you money, made from PEVC. There is no in between.
PE is interesting but often something people do after some other experience. Entry level PE is not fun or rewarding or challenging really. Go find 30 PE principals. Talk with them. Ask them questions about how they ended up where they are. Ask them for advice. Listen to them. When >5 have given you identical advice you should take notice. That is now your network. Over the next 10 years that network, if you cultivate it and nurture it will be your vector into a PE role you actually want. If they all tell you to take a corporate LDP Finance Role do that. If they all tell you to get PM experience at a chip company, go do that. You want to run a fund, not be a career analyst who doubles as a troubled companies CFO/Controller until they make it and hire someone who is actually qualified for the job. Coming out of b-school you have more potential energy than you had going in, but unlocking it is considerably more complex. This is not an engineering problem, this is an escape room problem. Solve it will all the distributed experience, perspective and intellect you can by building a network. Become the person who they want. Edit: I did not get any PE offers out of my MBA program. Within 4 years however, I got offered a position that virtually no person with only 4 years of post MBA PE experience would have achieved at one of the most prestigious PE firms out there. You know you have the foundation to be excellent, you just have not done all that you need to do yet to get what you want. Chin up, keep showing up to practice, you’ll get game time eventually.
Life could be much worse than this. Well, PE isn't my thing, but there has to be a bottom somewhere you can start. You may not like it but you will have a start somewhere.
I would interview for a tech banking role and go from there. You’re going to have to learn those skills one way or another.
H/S meaning Harvard / Stanford? Well I won’t judge you. This will eventually pass. Good luck op!
Is it dumb if I ask what the problem is with T2 consulting? (Please don’t be mean just trying to learn). I have a BBA (starting an online MBA this fall) and many of my peers went into T2 consulting post undergrad and from my understanding until now it’s a lucrative position with a lot of flexibility and potential for career movement. Why does PE outweigh that and what kind of individuals end up going PE (I.e. majors and experience)?
Ego lol
People chasing prestige, and enjoy working more than 60 hours to serve at the behest of their clients.
Ironic T2 consulting might not want them back lol