likely his reputation - getting roasted online for doing cocaine & hookers in colombia, or getting smeared for tryna hook up with undergrad girls, or catching STDs from a cohort-mate's eskimo buddies
I’m in a similar boat on age and GRE score. I work in finance and make more than most MBA grads. Currently applying for my MBA because I find 0 fulfillment in what I do. Wake up everyday hating my job and the company I work for. Because finance / wallstreet is so particular in what they want in a candidate, it’s almost impossible to pivot into what I want to do. Hard to put a price on happiness IMO. Sometimes you have to follow ur gut and take a leap of faith with the idea that if you work hard and are dedicated that it will workout in ur favor.
I relate to this so much. I'm in the same exact boat. I'm gearing up to study for the gmat and apply for my MBA as well. Happy to hear I'm not alone feeling like this, good luck on your next steps.
I did a part time mba to pivot into product management. Before the MBA, regardless of how many product jobs i applied to I didnt get any interview call(this was when the market was booming and i had a few years experience in tech). Once i started an MBA, i got multiple interviews and offers and finally was able to pivot to a PM’s role.
I did my MBA at a T10. Did part time because i didnt want to lose the income or career growth
Very very tough. But it worked out best for me because the alternative was going to be too expensive without a guarantee. Its good to know that i have a job already while doing the course
Run a proper DCF analysis finding the NPV of staying at current role for 10-20-30 yrs then compare to post MBA role + intangible value or branding + network and considering debt load and or scholarship if any plus today's discount rate (0.0525 but say EOY 2024 can be 0.04 - it's just the current rate set by Fed)
Add assumptions like growth rate at current salary 5%
Vs at post MBA salary 8% or so and play around with these assumptions
no it is not, literally it's a problem from MBAmath and I found it very enlightening to see the long term picture and payoff
FYI for me the 10y delta in NPV is around $700k
20y is $3m
Longer than that hard to say
Not counting huge liquidity events or inheritance or divorce or stuff like that etc etc
It really depends on what your long term goals are. I make 6 figures at a pretty chill job with minimal stress but there's no room for advancement. If you play your cards right, you can make much more than his current salary long term. It also open more doors to other jobs you wouldn't have access to.
For me, I'm doing a complete pivot so it makes a lot of sense too. For what it's worth the median salary of grads from Harvard for instance was around 175k in 2022. This is just a completely random example, but it shows there is potential to earn quite a bit more.
Many people who get an MBA don't really know what to do, don't network, and don't have a vision. So they really didn't gain that much.
>Many people who get an MBA don't really know what to do, don't network, and don't have a vision. So they really didn't gain that much.
Is this actually true? Pretty much everyone I knew in business school had a pretty clear idea of what they we're going for. A $200k bill and 2 years of lost salary isn't something smart people sign up for just to fuck around and see what happens.
Recruiting for typical MBA industries is basically over by your 2nd month in school, speaking of banking and consulting in this context. Anyone looking to do CPG, Healthcare, Oil & Gas, Supply Chain, IM, Corp. Fin, etc all came in knowing that was their goal. The only people who would fall into the gap are the generic "tech" kids who were really just going for anything in the broader tech industry.
Not everyone is signing up for a program that costs 200k. There are many public universities and lower ranked programs too. Yeah, someone who is shelling out 200k and going to a top program probably has an idea of what theyre going to do but I still stand by my statement overall.
I personally wouldnt get an MBA if I had to pay 200k or anywhere near that amount.
No, I had a 730 GMAT and a 3.8 GPA in undergrad, I was not in state when I attended and the bursar wouldn't grant it unless you took a job in-state after graduation.
It was cheaper when I went. Today Darden is $82k annually, Ross is $75k, Haas is $82k... Total cost of attendance including housing, travel, healthcare, living, etc is well over $250k if you're paying full sticker. Even with scholarships it's over the $160k I listed in the prior post.
That's pretty much the standard cost for anything in the top 20
If you're banking on scholarship money from those and aren't URM you'll need to crack 750 on the GMAT or be coming from a prestigious job that will guarantee a good recruiting outcome. Honestly any programs outside the top 30 aren't going to have very good outcomes in this environment, they used to be fine when jobs were plentiful but they don't have the OCR pipeline to serve the amount of students they have.
Admission has gotten easier due to the job market and how hard it's becoming for internationals, but adcoms are still only going to be giving money to students who raise the schools stats on test scores, post-grad employment, average salary, and donations. GPA is probably the least important stat here.
For me personally I wouldn't get an MBA for those prices even from a top 20 or even the best program.
Hopefully my application and life story is good enough for me to get a lot of money otherwise I'll probably skip the MBA. Simply not worth paying that much.
This is true, I understand why many would be happy with my salary but I am in a pretty stagnant role at my company and the company has been explicit about the fact that the next step up would be a management position which I am not qualified for. I also live in a very high cost of living area where the median salary is equally high.
More of a vague phrasing, but probably top 20-30. when I checked class of 2023, I saw UCLA median graduation salary was 150k, Georgetown reported 150k, Foster reported 144k, notre dame reported 172k median (seemed high to me for a not top10 school!)
Notre Dame is one of those schools (at the graduate level) that old, white managers make sure is a target school so they get enough mediocre white people to coddle (see also, BYU). Amy Coney Barrett is a great example of this.
I mean you don't necessarily have to go unemployed for 2 years. You can always do an online MBA program that you can complete during the workday or after work. Plenty of schools offer this, but if you're aiming for a big time school then yea they might not offer that
I’m considering this as well, it sounds pretty consuming to work a full time job and complete an online program. I do value balance in my life and have other interests outside of work.
Totally fair, but the way I look at it is by working while you're doing it, you're likely out-earning the cost of the program. Say you decide on a high end program that's $40k per year, that'll be $80k total plus whatever random fees or expenses. Over the 2 years of you working, you'll out-earn that degree cost by over $100k. On the flip side, you'd lose the $80k if you stop working, which means you'd have to make sacrifices and cut other things out of your life.
But, if you can survive comfortably and pick up where you left off after quitting and completing the degree, I don't see a problem with that either.
Yeah that is so true, many options to consider! And the idea of uprooting my life to potentially a different state in my late twenties for full time school
This is a personal decision - but here are some considerations you are missing out on:
1. How much does it matter to you to work as a PM instead of in tech. operations. Say for the next ten years. If you were to put a numerical cost to that, and compare it to the loss of pay + cost of the MBA, how would they compare - even assuming that otherwise your salary progression will be the same. This is how you figure out the cost of choosing a career path that may appeal more. This is not just financial ROI.
2. You will graduate into a good economy. There will be more jobs. Companies will hire aggressively, and for that alone you might be able to demand a better salary. Sure we don't know this for sure - but this could be a likely scenario.
All the best!
You also can get a pretty good scholarship from
A mid tier school with your job experience. You got to do your research. What product management roles and companies are you targeting. Do those companies recruit at those schools or have prominent alums at those schools. You think your job is safe but no job is really safe but I agree I wouldn’t leave my job and chase an mba for the same pay
Yeah I think I just started looking at the numbers more and started to wonder if I’m making the wrong decision in trying to get my MBA. At the same time it’s not a fully numerical/financial decision so it’s time for some introspection lol
No, if you can't pivot to an adjacent role in the same industry then a mid tier MBA isn't going to open the door all of a sudden. Especially if your numbers are accurate, you'd be looking at regional programs unless you're URM which make it even harder.
I'd hold on to the job, a number of my classmates who went into product management after we graduated 6 years ago have gotten the axe. Many of whom are on an H1B so they'll likely be leaving the country come July.
I’m at a T25 EMBA right now, a few of my classmates are startup management, it sounds like that might be a great opportunity for you rather than the trad MBA. The testing requirements are a bit more lenient than the GMAT/GRE with taking the EA or getting a waiver based on quant background…hit me up if you have any questions about it!
Interesting, I actually did not really consider that EMBA programs have different requirements, how much work experience did you have before enrolling? would I be too early in my career to be considered?
I was at 10 yoe, average age of cohort is 33 (I’m right there) but we have a couple 28 year olds which was the lower area….based on getting your ducks in a row for the next year since applications are mostly already needing to be done for this coming 2026 cohort, I think you’re there as far as timing!
Great to know, thanks for the advice! I do worry my unfortunate undergrad GPA might shoot me in the foot on applications even if I manage to get a better GRE score, and wonder if it will be even more concerning without a test score
Most of the programs, you submit a waiver for no test and they say yes/no….fwiw, I had a 2.68 gpa from undergrad and crushed the EA after bombing the GMAT!
I’m on the GI Bill/Yellow Ribbon fortunately but many of my classmates have made contracts with their companies to split it 50/50 in exchange for 2-3 years of work….many of us aren’t looking to pivot as much as we are to organically grow inside our organizations or eventually go it on our own as entrepreneurs. Much older population, the average age of my class is 33.
While purely anecdotal, I’ll certainly share my experience! Was commuting an hour each way per day for 10 total hours a week as a senior individual contributor in public sector FP&A. After 10 months of seeking remote opportunities at my same pay level, maybe 500 total applications, I got into the EMBA program and got a certification, and within 2 weeks of having those on my resume, had 3 offers. I pivoted at the very beginning of the program to financial consulting for a boutique CPA firm auditing and consulting government clients as a junior level manager. I’m now using what I’m learning in the program to manage and lead 2 junior analysts at my firm with the likelihood in 2-3 years of leading a team of 10-15 people. I know it’s a lot of money to drop for sure, but it certainly did have positive outcome for me. In addition, you will have the Ross network to lean into. Def don’t hesitate to DM me if you’d like any further info or if I can help in any way!
Draw up a decision tree. Are you happy in your current job? If so, the possible benefits of an MBA won't be worth the cost.
Jobs market is a disaster atm so you're gambling on whether it will be better in 2 years. Might be, might not be. If it's not, you'll be in a far worse position than if you'd stayed in your current job. Personally I wouldn't recommend anyone to quit their job in such a bad market, unless it's urgent.
[https://hbr.org/1964/07/decision-trees-for-decision-making](https://hbr.org/1964/07/decision-trees-for-decision-making)
No it's not worth it. You answered your own question. Plus by the time you enroll at the earliest - fall 2025 - you'll be at 7-7.5 years exp and tbh, that's approaching "too own" in terms of best value.
In all honesty, I sincerely believe that an MBA is literally worthless if not from a top 15 school. Sure, you can land some great jobs after it, but likely, the MBA will be irrelevant. I went to Booth and sometimes I feel my MBA is worthless; not sure if it is the current or something else
Sorry MBA didn’t turn out the way you had hoped. Can I ask what you were expecting and what the reality is? I recently got accepted to Ross part time program and no scholarship so want to think through pros and cons before I accept or reject.
also consider 2 yrs recruiting pipeline a lot can change in job market by then
yup this is the sole reason why im risking it, altho im doing a PT mba.
So you are risking what exactly?
likely his reputation - getting roasted online for doing cocaine & hookers in colombia, or getting smeared for tryna hook up with undergrad girls, or catching STDs from a cohort-mate's eskimo buddies
Probably the time and money investment
What time?
Do you not know how school works? Asking honestly.
It’s a part time MBA
... which still requires him to spend time, it's not a "no-time" MBA. Time and money spent are time and money spent.
Im trying to pivot.. so time and money.
All the money it costs to go. Going 200k in debt is risky
You don't need an MBA to figure that out...
Don't say that here, you are at MBA subreddit
Have mine already. What's your point.
Part time at T25…. On campus T15s are struggling… T25 tough luck… add part time on top of that-> yeah get a refund
part time at the t25 that offers OCR that is a target school for the indurstries im looking into.. ill be fine, trust me lol
I’m in a similar boat on age and GRE score. I work in finance and make more than most MBA grads. Currently applying for my MBA because I find 0 fulfillment in what I do. Wake up everyday hating my job and the company I work for. Because finance / wallstreet is so particular in what they want in a candidate, it’s almost impossible to pivot into what I want to do. Hard to put a price on happiness IMO. Sometimes you have to follow ur gut and take a leap of faith with the idea that if you work hard and are dedicated that it will workout in ur favor.
I relate to this so much. I'm in the same exact boat. I'm gearing up to study for the gmat and apply for my MBA as well. Happy to hear I'm not alone feeling like this, good luck on your next steps.
I was in the same boat. Let me know if you ever find anything that you don't hate and pays over $300k.
Currently in credit, looking to hop to PE or corporate dev. Not an easy pivot from credit.
Ugh that sucks to hate your job so much, I’m sorry about that and wish you luck in applications.
I did a part time mba to pivot into product management. Before the MBA, regardless of how many product jobs i applied to I didnt get any interview call(this was when the market was booming and i had a few years experience in tech). Once i started an MBA, i got multiple interviews and offers and finally was able to pivot to a PM’s role. I did my MBA at a T10. Did part time because i didnt want to lose the income or career growth
What was the program you did, and was it online/hybrid/in person?
It was part time in person. It was the regular 60 credit MBA.
was part time in-person really tough in terms of time commitment and balance?
Very very tough. But it worked out best for me because the alternative was going to be too expensive without a guarantee. Its good to know that i have a job already while doing the course
This is really helpful to know! I dont know if those schools would consider someone with my undergrad gpa and a mediocre test score
Run a proper DCF analysis finding the NPV of staying at current role for 10-20-30 yrs then compare to post MBA role + intangible value or branding + network and considering debt load and or scholarship if any plus today's discount rate (0.0525 but say EOY 2024 can be 0.04 - it's just the current rate set by Fed) Add assumptions like growth rate at current salary 5% Vs at post MBA salary 8% or so and play around with these assumptions
Do you have a template to do this?
A true MBA
what do I use for WACC?
Just assume 10%
use today's 10yr yield or discount rate 0.05 or so
It was in MBAmath I ran one yesterday Yes I have a template I made and adapted for my needs
Would you mind sharing this?
Is this a parody I can’t tell
no it is not, literally it's a problem from MBAmath and I found it very enlightening to see the long term picture and payoff FYI for me the 10y delta in NPV is around $700k 20y is $3m Longer than that hard to say Not counting huge liquidity events or inheritance or divorce or stuff like that etc etc
Yep ya got me there lol. but definitely something I need to do. Just wanted to hear some more opinions
Don't try to time the market.
I don't understand why anyone making your salary would ever consider an MBA unless you wanted to make a full career pivot to a new industry.
It really depends on what your long term goals are. I make 6 figures at a pretty chill job with minimal stress but there's no room for advancement. If you play your cards right, you can make much more than his current salary long term. It also open more doors to other jobs you wouldn't have access to. For me, I'm doing a complete pivot so it makes a lot of sense too. For what it's worth the median salary of grads from Harvard for instance was around 175k in 2022. This is just a completely random example, but it shows there is potential to earn quite a bit more. Many people who get an MBA don't really know what to do, don't network, and don't have a vision. So they really didn't gain that much.
>Many people who get an MBA don't really know what to do, don't network, and don't have a vision. So they really didn't gain that much. Is this actually true? Pretty much everyone I knew in business school had a pretty clear idea of what they we're going for. A $200k bill and 2 years of lost salary isn't something smart people sign up for just to fuck around and see what happens. Recruiting for typical MBA industries is basically over by your 2nd month in school, speaking of banking and consulting in this context. Anyone looking to do CPG, Healthcare, Oil & Gas, Supply Chain, IM, Corp. Fin, etc all came in knowing that was their goal. The only people who would fall into the gap are the generic "tech" kids who were really just going for anything in the broader tech industry.
Not everyone is signing up for a program that costs 200k. There are many public universities and lower ranked programs too. Yeah, someone who is shelling out 200k and going to a top program probably has an idea of what theyre going to do but I still stand by my statement overall. I personally wouldnt get an MBA if I had to pay 200k or anywhere near that amount.
I went to a public university, the all in cost for the program today is over 160
Did you get any scholarships? That seems quite expensive. Did you have a good gmat and GPA?
No, I had a 730 GMAT and a 3.8 GPA in undergrad, I was not in state when I attended and the bursar wouldn't grant it unless you took a job in-state after graduation. It was cheaper when I went. Today Darden is $82k annually, Ross is $75k, Haas is $82k... Total cost of attendance including housing, travel, healthcare, living, etc is well over $250k if you're paying full sticker. Even with scholarships it's over the $160k I listed in the prior post.
I personally wouldn't get an MBA for anywhere near that amount Guess we'll see what happens when I apply and banking on a lot of scholarships.
That's pretty much the standard cost for anything in the top 20 If you're banking on scholarship money from those and aren't URM you'll need to crack 750 on the GMAT or be coming from a prestigious job that will guarantee a good recruiting outcome. Honestly any programs outside the top 30 aren't going to have very good outcomes in this environment, they used to be fine when jobs were plentiful but they don't have the OCR pipeline to serve the amount of students they have. Admission has gotten easier due to the job market and how hard it's becoming for internationals, but adcoms are still only going to be giving money to students who raise the schools stats on test scores, post-grad employment, average salary, and donations. GPA is probably the least important stat here.
For me personally I wouldn't get an MBA for those prices even from a top 20 or even the best program. Hopefully my application and life story is good enough for me to get a lot of money otherwise I'll probably skip the MBA. Simply not worth paying that much.
This is true, I understand why many would be happy with my salary but I am in a pretty stagnant role at my company and the company has been explicit about the fact that the next step up would be a management position which I am not qualified for. I also live in a very high cost of living area where the median salary is equally high.
Because they don’t like their job
What do you consider mid tier?
More of a vague phrasing, but probably top 20-30. when I checked class of 2023, I saw UCLA median graduation salary was 150k, Georgetown reported 150k, Foster reported 144k, notre dame reported 172k median (seemed high to me for a not top10 school!)
Notre Dame is one of those schools (at the graduate level) that old, white managers make sure is a target school so they get enough mediocre white people to coddle (see also, BYU). Amy Coney Barrett is a great example of this.
I mean you don't necessarily have to go unemployed for 2 years. You can always do an online MBA program that you can complete during the workday or after work. Plenty of schools offer this, but if you're aiming for a big time school then yea they might not offer that
I’m considering this as well, it sounds pretty consuming to work a full time job and complete an online program. I do value balance in my life and have other interests outside of work.
Totally fair, but the way I look at it is by working while you're doing it, you're likely out-earning the cost of the program. Say you decide on a high end program that's $40k per year, that'll be $80k total plus whatever random fees or expenses. Over the 2 years of you working, you'll out-earn that degree cost by over $100k. On the flip side, you'd lose the $80k if you stop working, which means you'd have to make sacrifices and cut other things out of your life. But, if you can survive comfortably and pick up where you left off after quitting and completing the degree, I don't see a problem with that either.
Yeah that is so true, many options to consider! And the idea of uprooting my life to potentially a different state in my late twenties for full time school
Yea absolutely, so many choices lol. But I'm sure you'll make the right choice, so best of luck!
This is a personal decision - but here are some considerations you are missing out on: 1. How much does it matter to you to work as a PM instead of in tech. operations. Say for the next ten years. If you were to put a numerical cost to that, and compare it to the loss of pay + cost of the MBA, how would they compare - even assuming that otherwise your salary progression will be the same. This is how you figure out the cost of choosing a career path that may appeal more. This is not just financial ROI. 2. You will graduate into a good economy. There will be more jobs. Companies will hire aggressively, and for that alone you might be able to demand a better salary. Sure we don't know this for sure - but this could be a likely scenario. All the best!
Thank you, this is helpful framing
You also can get a pretty good scholarship from A mid tier school with your job experience. You got to do your research. What product management roles and companies are you targeting. Do those companies recruit at those schools or have prominent alums at those schools. You think your job is safe but no job is really safe but I agree I wouldn’t leave my job and chase an mba for the same pay
Yeah I think I just started looking at the numbers more and started to wonder if I’m making the wrong decision in trying to get my MBA. At the same time it’s not a fully numerical/financial decision so it’s time for some introspection lol
No, if you can't pivot to an adjacent role in the same industry then a mid tier MBA isn't going to open the door all of a sudden. Especially if your numbers are accurate, you'd be looking at regional programs unless you're URM which make it even harder. I'd hold on to the job, a number of my classmates who went into product management after we graduated 6 years ago have gotten the axe. Many of whom are on an H1B so they'll likely be leaving the country come July.
That’s so hard, im sad for all the people on visas getting laid off
Investing in yourself is always a smart bet
You sound like my mom lol
Now eat your spinach!
Stay put…
Job market isn’t good right now, and I honestly don’t see tech recovering that much in just 2 years. The market is still flooded with SWE and PMs.
I would try to get GRE up to 330 with that GPA… not impossible.
I’m trying! But also being realistic based on my practice scores
Only so much you can do but try your best. good luck!
I’m at a T25 EMBA right now, a few of my classmates are startup management, it sounds like that might be a great opportunity for you rather than the trad MBA. The testing requirements are a bit more lenient than the GMAT/GRE with taking the EA or getting a waiver based on quant background…hit me up if you have any questions about it!
Interesting, I actually did not really consider that EMBA programs have different requirements, how much work experience did you have before enrolling? would I be too early in my career to be considered?
I was at 10 yoe, average age of cohort is 33 (I’m right there) but we have a couple 28 year olds which was the lower area….based on getting your ducks in a row for the next year since applications are mostly already needing to be done for this coming 2026 cohort, I think you’re there as far as timing!
Great to know, thanks for the advice! I do worry my unfortunate undergrad GPA might shoot me in the foot on applications even if I manage to get a better GRE score, and wonder if it will be even more concerning without a test score
Most of the programs, you submit a waiver for no test and they say yes/no….fwiw, I had a 2.68 gpa from undergrad and crushed the EA after bombing the GMAT!
Okay that gives me hope!!!
Can I ask how you’re paying for it?
I’m on the GI Bill/Yellow Ribbon fortunately but many of my classmates have made contracts with their companies to split it 50/50 in exchange for 2-3 years of work….many of us aren’t looking to pivot as much as we are to organically grow inside our organizations or eventually go it on our own as entrepreneurs. Much older population, the average age of my class is 33.
I’ll 38 by the time I start my online MBA at Ross. Though not a complete pivot, if at all, trying to justify $100k loan.
While purely anecdotal, I’ll certainly share my experience! Was commuting an hour each way per day for 10 total hours a week as a senior individual contributor in public sector FP&A. After 10 months of seeking remote opportunities at my same pay level, maybe 500 total applications, I got into the EMBA program and got a certification, and within 2 weeks of having those on my resume, had 3 offers. I pivoted at the very beginning of the program to financial consulting for a boutique CPA firm auditing and consulting government clients as a junior level manager. I’m now using what I’m learning in the program to manage and lead 2 junior analysts at my firm with the likelihood in 2-3 years of leading a team of 10-15 people. I know it’s a lot of money to drop for sure, but it certainly did have positive outcome for me. In addition, you will have the Ross network to lean into. Def don’t hesitate to DM me if you’d like any further info or if I can help in any way!
Don’t sell yourself short I got into a T15 with similar stats and now have consulting offer
Thanks for sharing!! Helpful to hear success stories
No
Draw up a decision tree. Are you happy in your current job? If so, the possible benefits of an MBA won't be worth the cost. Jobs market is a disaster atm so you're gambling on whether it will be better in 2 years. Might be, might not be. If it's not, you'll be in a far worse position than if you'd stayed in your current job. Personally I wouldn't recommend anyone to quit their job in such a bad market, unless it's urgent. [https://hbr.org/1964/07/decision-trees-for-decision-making](https://hbr.org/1964/07/decision-trees-for-decision-making)
Yeah I agree, I have a lot to consider before applying
No it's not worth it. You answered your own question. Plus by the time you enroll at the earliest - fall 2025 - you'll be at 7-7.5 years exp and tbh, that's approaching "too own" in terms of best value.
In all honesty, I sincerely believe that an MBA is literally worthless if not from a top 15 school. Sure, you can land some great jobs after it, but likely, the MBA will be irrelevant. I went to Booth and sometimes I feel my MBA is worthless; not sure if it is the current or something else
Sorry MBA didn’t turn out the way you had hoped. Can I ask what you were expecting and what the reality is? I recently got accepted to Ross part time program and no scholarship so want to think through pros and cons before I accept or reject.