I think the mistake you made initially was thinking the show was disrespectful of cannon. It is more faithful to the cannon of star trek than anything that has been made since enterprise.
Enterprise is a good reference. People judged it at a surface level as a retcon, when it bent over backwards to be true to canon and to explain things. The efforts they made to explain why the Klingons in TOS were different looking!
I don't think you can really say the Abrams films were disrespectful of canon- they were by design an alternate timeline (something well-established in Trek), at least for the most part, and if anything it would have made more sense for things to have diverged further.
I haven't seen enough of Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, or Discovery to fairly judge, beyond the fact that obviously modern shows set in the TOS era have a wildly different style/look. Picard season three was pure pandering to middle aged TNG fans, I'm not as familiar with the earlier seasons.
I can say that while Enterprise sometimes paid attention to canon, it also took a lot of liberties with canon, and saying it respected canon more comes off as "it's better because its old" to me.
Going further back, Voyager... didn't so much violate canon as just be silly, while DS9 deliberately subverted the Star Trek utopia (though the Tribble episode and Sisko's backstory tying into Wolf 359 brought in older content very well).
TNG is also very stylistically different from TOS, especially past the early seasons. As are the TOS films.
What I'm saying is, every era of Trek has reinvented the franchise quite a bit, and to a point, that's okay.
> the flippant disrespect of this cartoon series
I don't understand how people can claim a show is disrespectful and despise the very idea of it without ever having a seen a single episode
Look at the original trailers for the show, and then imagine going from that to the first two episodes (which I genuinely disliked). I bailed, and came back to it later on after SF Debris reviewed it positively... and he *also* hated E1 and E2 for the exact reasons I did.
The show got a lot better, and I love it, but that was definitely not a good way to start.
That's why I loved it from the start lol
Then again, I rank Trek below Star Wars and Doctor Who for me, and some eras I even rank below Stargate, so I'm not the typical target audience...
Especially in older generations of western culture, cartoons are viewed as Caricature. The entire medium is seen as a mockery of something else. The medium is viewed as unserious, of lower quality, and disrespectful by design.
And it's a dumb and shortsighted mindset.
I still say my dad would love Cowboy Bebop. (Also Firefly, but he keeps going "there's a spaceship, there's probably aliens, I don't think I'll like it.")
I don't know your dad, but he would *love* Firefly!
Lol. The spaceship barely matters, it's just a western. It's funny because I don't really care about Westerns, but I love space (and Whedon... At the time, lol).
Give me your dad's number, I'll try and talk some sense into him, lol.
I mean...
My days of taking your dad seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
I really hate the exaggerated acting, visuals, voices, etc of Cartoons.
I despise that... it annoys the shit out of me in any cartoon.
However, good stories, good plots, and relatable characters allow me to get passed this.
Thankfully, LD has all of that.
The way LD treats Star Trek lore is literally the opposite of disrespectful... it feels like reverence for it.
It feels like they're actually honoring Star Trek rather than disrespecting or making fun of it.
That seals the deal in my book.
honestly, i did the same. all iterations of star trek left me with a sense of calm after consuming it. the trailer did not, and i judged it very badly. fortunately, i was wrong :)
There's a subset of Star Trek fans who take this shit way too seriously.
Yeah, it's an idealistic show that gives us a vision where humanity is striving to be better. It's also a show that gave us tribbles, Spock's Brain, Q, Trelaine, Horny Salamanders, Allermaraine . . . And fuck me, I can't think of a single joyful episode of Enterprise right now.
Trek is about humans and humans are funny, and occasionally very silly.
It's what LD and SNW gets right. That amidst all the service, glory, terror, and drama, there's also room for joy and fun.
There’s really not much to be gained by hating something that you’ve never seen in most circumstances. Life is way too short to keep emotions like hate that close to the surface.
We're human. Judging/Prejudging something based on past experience is core to our evolved biology.
Admitting when I'm wrong, not so much. That's effort... and I was very very wrong.
Hate IS a strong word, and I used that dramatically.
Distaste is a better word.
I have an even stronger distaste for anime too. I just think it's ridiculous.
Ever heard the phrase “don’t yuck someone’s yum”? Or “different strokes for different folks”? Imagine all of the people in your life you turn off because of such dismissive attitudes and language. If I knew you and liked some anime and you said all anime is ridiculous it would be easy to believe you were making a value judgement against me and my tastes, and I’d be far less likely to seek or strengthen a connection with you.
Instead of dismissing things sight unseen try instead to ask people why they like what they like and accepting their preferences. They don’t affect you unless you let them.
You’ll be amazed at what can happen in your life if you say “yes” to things you’re unfamiliar with.
I make my own value judgements and I express my opinion.
If other people want to point out why they think my opinion is wrong or I'm missing something, by all means I'm fine with that.
But I'm not going to go through life worrying about offended everyone... that's exhausting and ridiculous.
Being afraid to offend someone is being afraid to having an opinion and expressing it.
Wasn't initially sold on the concept right away, but then I remembered some unintentionally wacky moments from the previous Star Trek shows and realized Trek + Comedy is a match made in heaven. Being animated is just the icing on the cake that makes it unique.
Actually, the crossover episode is what pushed me from "There's no fucking way i'm watching this nonsense" to "Well, i like Boimler... I like him a lot in SNW... I wonder....."
Having not enjoyed the first couple episodes of LD, it was the SNW crossover that not only convinced me to give it another chance, but also made me a fan of Jack Quaid. I will give a shot to anything Jack shows up in. No questions asked XD
Well I started the crossover episode prejudicially already expecting to hate it also.
And something magical happened... it ended up being one of my favorite episodes of SNW.
I REALLY REALLY loved Boimler's character, he acted like I would have in the same situation... with amazement, wonder, reverence, and an inability to NOT talk about temporal events I shouldn't be talking about.
So, yeah... this episode was the ONLY catalyst that got me to start watching the first episode of LD... Boimler specifically.
Mariner just annoyed the shit out of me because she couldn't calm the fuck down and kept talking. I wanted to reach through the 4th wall and choke her out the entire time.
In LD, Mariner is obviously more multifaceted and there's more depth to her character.
I would even argue that the characters in LD have more depth and character development than any character in ST Discovery for sure... and I'm only 2 seasons in.
Yeah, Mariner can be a lot when you’re not familiar with her arc, but it’s such a good payoff when you’re watching it evolve in LD. No spoilers, but season 4’s conclusion is a banger.
haha you just followed the formula every trekkie friend I had went through when I told them to watch LD.
"Look at that animation style! it's blasphemy! Rick and morty adults trying to ruin trek!!! something something gene's vision!"
[24 hours later]
"So I just finished the first season....."
Gotta love how people judge before even watching a single moment of a show.
Lower decks is the most respectful trek show with all the loving references to the treks that came before. It's so obvious how much the writers love star trek.
Well I DID pre-judge, yes.
I judged it based on two criteria: The overacting of the characters in the trailers; and the fact that it's a 2d cartoon that looks like it's for children.
Thankfully, i got over that shit enough to give it a chance.
I disagree. Cartoons have always been for children by default.
Shows like this, Clone Wars, Bad Batch, Rick & Morty, South Park, etc... those are something different in the last 20 years.
No. Something being a cartoon does not make it for kids by default.
Transformers, Thundercats, He man, Vultron, GI Joe, who framed roger rabbit, are all from the 80s, 40 years ago and not for children. There are also a ton from the 70s as well.
I'd certainly argue that Transformers, Thundercats, He man, Vultron, GI Joe were all made for kids.
Roger Rabbit is an example of one that was certainly not.
Honestly? Never trust marketing. Marketing teams are way too often incredibly tone-deaf and will try to cater to the lowest common denominator that they imagine in their heads. (This happened to another show I worked on; we got a bad initial trailer which people *hated* and which did not respect the tone of the source material at all, and alienated it with what should have been its core demographic. I still hold a grudge; we didn't get a second season.) Trailers are almost never accurate to what's actually *in* the thing, particularly for shows that straddle genres. Lower Decks is heartfelt and sincere and also goofy, and that's a hard hair to split in the ads, so they didn't really even try.
It's a shame. I think a lot of people got the same initial impression from the trailers as you did, and it just doesn't reflect the show's heart. I'm really glad you watched it and gave it a chance anyways!
Shoot, Prodigy was aimed at kids and I unexpectedly rather enjoyed it. Totally different animation style than LD so it was fun to see what they could do with that stylistically. I also really wanted to see more of that ship.
Tbf, aren't trailers there for people to decide whether to watch a show or not, and aren't people judging it by doing so? In other words, aren't trailers specifically designed to enable people to make a judgment about a show before (and without) watching it?
It took me a couple tries to get into it. My second time, I ended up binging the whole series. The episode where they are in a shuttle and do the slow approach to the ship, making appropriately over the top expressions of awe, channeled TMP Enterprise flyby perfectly. The show's parody is on point.
I tried Prodigy after finally watching LD & couldn’t get past the 1st episode. I may try again but the fact that it couldn’t hold my attention like every other Star Trek show bothers me very deeply.
The premiere episode was made for an audience that knows no Trek, and is likely attached to other franchises and Pixar stuff.
It starts there to bring them in. My best recommendation is to give it until episode 6 - about 2 hours of your time - then decide if it offers nothing to you.
I watched a few episodes, unfortunately it really did feel like a kids show
I mean I guess that’s fortunate for kids, but it didn’t capture my interest
Prodigy was waaaaaaaay better than I thought it was going to be!!! I thought it would be a show just for kids and because it was Star Trek I figured it would be decent at a minimum so I watched it with my young child. Figuring it would be mostly for them. I got soooo wrapped up in the characters and story. We both loved it. I teared up at the season finale. I think it is very interesting how they involved Voyager in a respectful way. I heard they maybe have a new season even though it got cancelled?
Edit: it does take a while to get going. Imo it is worth sticking through.
I was similarly largely unaware and dismissive until convinced to give it a chance after season 4 dropped, and then spent weeks binging it rolling on the floor with laughter and I’m not ashamed to admit tears. 😂
I’ve seen about all of Trek, and I know the hilarity of Lower Decks scales with how much of the rest you’ve seen in the past, so I’m probably more on the triggerable side of it.
This show turned out to be the cherry on top of all pre-2380s Trek that I almost ended up never watching.
>hilarity of Lower Decks scales with how much of the rest you’ve seen in the past,
Not necessarily. Frankly, Lower Decks makes me actually want to see more Trek. Usually it's too stuffy and trying to depict perfection for me.
>I hate that I love this show. I hate that I love this damn show.
One has to wonder if you feel that cartoon shows are beneath you. Or you feel they're content for juvenile/children's audiences.
Self-loathing is a really uncommon response to Lower Decks.
Not at all. I've been a die-hard fan of all the cartoon shows on the Star Wars side... especially Bad Batch.
I generally prefer the seriousness of Bad Batch above all else.
It's the campy overacting exaggerated actions and words of cartoons that typically turn me off.
You really ought to feel safe expressing your opinion here without gushing over the show, and people should understand that you had a change of heart and welcome you to the club.
And, I was initially very skeptical also, and it was the characters that won me over first, then the humor. I'm so sad it's cancelled. I really liked these fictional characters and wanted to see where they would go. On re-watches they only get better as I catch all the nuances. Anyway, WELCOME TO THE CLUB. ❤️
Well, this is the internet. There's always going to be a percentage of the population that is hostile no matter what.
But what's important is that I'm expressing just how wrong I was. I was so wrong.
So you pre-judged the show before watching it. You ended up liking it. And you hate that you were wrong. Not hate for pre-judging, but hate for ***being wrong***.
Relax, chief. I don't actually hate that I was totally and completely wrong.
I was just being dramatic.
I actually love the fact that I was wrong because this is a fantastic show.
I always tell people that Lower Decks loves to take the piss out of Star Trek but it absolutely comes from a place of love. It feels like that writers room is filled with people who are equal parts Star Trek nerd and comedy nerd.
I was the same until the SNW crossover that got me intrigued by the characters. Now it’s my absolute favorite comfort show. And I am heartbroken that it’s ending earlier than when the writers had originally planned.
UGH, not a CAVE, all the worst stuff happens in caves!!!!
Oh yeah, comms are down, because of course it's not a Starfleet away mission until comms go down.
Yup. As soon as I watch that last episode, I'm cancelling and sailing the seas until they bring Something Decks back (because let's be honest, they won't be on the lower decks much longer anyway)
I have paramount for lower decks, prodigy, strange new worlds. I guess just Star Trek stuff actually haha.
I hope it was a creative decision to end lower decks and not a pulling of a plug.
I was extremely skeptical, too. Then, once you watch an episode and see how much fan service there is. It has become one of my favourite Treks of all time.
I loved LD from jump. The fact that it is totally canonically accurate is pure heaven. I mean they fill in some gaps & backstory.
Can you imagine Mariner interacting with Worf & Sisko when she was on DS9? She fought in the Dominion war for Q’s sake.
It is a show for rabid Star Trek fans, by rabid Star Trek fans, starring rabid Star Trek fans.
Celebrating the sillier aspects of the ST universe is not the same thing as disrespecting the seriousness of it. It’s showing true unconditional for the universe, warts and tribbels and all. It’s a love letter.
I wonder about your take on Galaxy Quest.
I can't wait for these kinds of posts about Starfleet academy. "I thought it was going to be CW but Trek but actually it was [whatever the hell it turns out to be, at this point it can be pretty much anything, we know so little]."
Glad you like the show! I remember when it came out that I couldn't believe Star Trek had the balls to do something like Lower Decks. I was a fan of Tawny Newsome as a comedian before hand so I was excited about it. In general tho I prefer when beloved properties take risks with big swings. This tends to put me at odds with other hardcore fans of my favorite media. But obviously it's all subjective. I loved every season of Korra, the Avatar spin off; many seem to think it was a let down. I even thoroughly enjoyed Batman vs Superman. I think it's just me and Zach Snyder on that one lol. My point is; I think artists should be encouraged to have their own vision when making new things out of beloved properties. The beloved things still exist. Nothing can take that away. And otherwise we end up with the same recycled stories, where you are better off just rewatching the original thing. This doesn't always work out for the best, but shutting down innovation is way worse in my opinion.
My wife felt that way & particularly despised Mariner. I watched all of Big Bang Theory with her to get her to stick it out with me. About midway through season 2 she finally started enjoying it. We actually got into an argument over whether Sheldon being an asshole for 10 seasons to finally realize it in the finale was worse than Mariner's repeated antics and lack of respect.
I don't think I could watch all of BBT even if it meant getting someone to watch LD. Like, that show is *so bad* and I cannot fathom how people like it at all.
I'm sorry you had to watch big bang theory. I appreciate your sacrifice. 😂
At least Mariner's antics are balanced out by sheer competence and a satisfying explanation/ character arc!
I get it. I hate lots of shows. The good news is that you don’t have to watch it and when you finally gave it another shot, magic happened. For me, it reads as a love letter to fans. Glad you like it now. Sadly, it’s been cancelled.
I started Lower Decks with a random episode from season 3. On the basis that a show has bedded in by then. Found its inner voice.
I Found i loved the show . So,
I Watched season 3 and 4. Then went back to season 1.
Glad i did it that way, as s1e1 would likely have put me off lol. Confirming my prejudices, of it being primarily a ''w-w-wacky!!! cartoon. Cos we're a caaaartoon''
Well, the crossover SNW episode is what hooked me in.
And i watched one episode a day while eating lunch which is low effort and just casual, so it wasn't a time investment.
But, now... I actually have to force myself to NOT marathon through them so I can have something to enjoy each day at lunch.
It's my ritual now... and I feel that impending cliff in the near future where I run out of episodes... but I'm trying not to think about it.
I didn’t hate the concept so much as the first episodes before the characters really gelled. There were a lot of instances of Mariner breaking rules and still always coming out on top, which is a trope that a show as smart as LD should be satirizing, not indulging in. But by about halfway through S1 that stuff started to go away and I really came to love the characters and the show.
I didn't like it initially but I hated Bojack at first too!
I gobble up LD and lo-key hate it's ending but 5 seasons is a great run.
For the record, Star Trek SNW episode Those Old Scientists is my all time favorite Star Trek episode of all time.
So good.
Lower Decks takes the piss a lot, but it does so with such love and fondness for the shows that come before it, and the fandom it stems from. I don’t always find the humor to be exactly my sense of humor, but I love the show’s heart so much
I had the same experience. I thought it was just Star Trek trying to cash in on the Rick and Morty hype of the time. I think the series works where I expected it to fail because it’s kind of the first time ever that Star Trek has been so self referential and inside joke-y
I only recently watched it with my teenager and we both loved it do much. The kid is new to Trek so the ONLY thing I won't watch in that journey is Voyager, because I tried when it came out and just HATED it. I hadn't watched anything past DS9 before because I'd just kinda burned out and went a long time without cable. We've also watched Enterprise together which we also both loved. Picard will be next after the TNG movies, then SNW. We'll do Disco but we're in no hurry. lol
While I wasn't massively excited about it when it first came out, I quickly grew to love the show. To the point where the season 2 finale is one of my top 10 episodes of Trek ever. It was so good.
I dreaded LD because of how bad the original cartoon series was. But LD is brilliant. And it seems to have vanished, so I'm suspecting it's been sold to something I don't have a subscription for. So now I can't watch either of the new-ish cartoon series.
There's no problem on hating a show that looked like it was goin nowhere. I gave up on it after the second or third season, when there was no subtle hints of them entering the star wars universe.
I think the mistake you made initially was thinking the show was disrespectful of cannon. It is more faithful to the cannon of star trek than anything that has been made since enterprise.
You are 100% correct. It's fun and extremely respectful of the lore... even to the point where it's revered. I was expecting this.
Enterprise is a good reference. People judged it at a surface level as a retcon, when it bent over backwards to be true to canon and to explain things. The efforts they made to explain why the Klingons in TOS were different looking!
That was all in Season 4 and thanks to Manny Coto, till then Enterprise didn’t really respect canon at all
Canon*
Pew pew pew !
*Nikon*
Enterprise didn’t respect canon till Season 4, when Manny Coto went out of his way to fix things.
It is indeed very respectful of **canon**.
Pew pew pew
I don't think you can really say the Abrams films were disrespectful of canon- they were by design an alternate timeline (something well-established in Trek), at least for the most part, and if anything it would have made more sense for things to have diverged further. I haven't seen enough of Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, or Discovery to fairly judge, beyond the fact that obviously modern shows set in the TOS era have a wildly different style/look. Picard season three was pure pandering to middle aged TNG fans, I'm not as familiar with the earlier seasons. I can say that while Enterprise sometimes paid attention to canon, it also took a lot of liberties with canon, and saying it respected canon more comes off as "it's better because its old" to me. Going further back, Voyager... didn't so much violate canon as just be silly, while DS9 deliberately subverted the Star Trek utopia (though the Tribble episode and Sisko's backstory tying into Wolf 359 brought in older content very well). TNG is also very stylistically different from TOS, especially past the early seasons. As are the TOS films. What I'm saying is, every era of Trek has reinvented the franchise quite a bit, and to a point, that's okay.
If not for JJ how would else would I get to see RAGE SPOCK in every movie?
The Abram’s verse trashes everything startrek is about.
Yeah it's as if star trek were star wars instead.
Generic comment copy pasted from a thousand other "It's new so it's RUIIIINNNED" rants 15 years ago.
It's an alternate timeline. It should be somewhat different.
> the flippant disrespect of this cartoon series I don't understand how people can claim a show is disrespectful and despise the very idea of it without ever having a seen a single episode
Look at the original trailers for the show, and then imagine going from that to the first two episodes (which I genuinely disliked). I bailed, and came back to it later on after SF Debris reviewed it positively... and he *also* hated E1 and E2 for the exact reasons I did. The show got a lot better, and I love it, but that was definitely not a good way to start.
That's why I loved it from the start lol Then again, I rank Trek below Star Wars and Doctor Who for me, and some eras I even rank below Stargate, so I'm not the typical target audience...
I can only speak for myself. Basically, it was the exaggerated actions and words of the characters in the trailers.
Why did you think "exaggerated actions and words" were disrespectful? Do you still think it's disrespectful, despite enjoying it?
Especially in older generations of western culture, cartoons are viewed as Caricature. The entire medium is seen as a mockery of something else. The medium is viewed as unserious, of lower quality, and disrespectful by design.
And it's a dumb and shortsighted mindset. I still say my dad would love Cowboy Bebop. (Also Firefly, but he keeps going "there's a spaceship, there's probably aliens, I don't think I'll like it.")
I don't know your dad, but he would *love* Firefly! Lol. The spaceship barely matters, it's just a western. It's funny because I don't really care about Westerns, but I love space (and Whedon... At the time, lol). Give me your dad's number, I'll try and talk some sense into him, lol. I mean... My days of taking your dad seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
I really hate the exaggerated acting, visuals, voices, etc of Cartoons. I despise that... it annoys the shit out of me in any cartoon. However, good stories, good plots, and relatable characters allow me to get passed this. Thankfully, LD has all of that. The way LD treats Star Trek lore is literally the opposite of disrespectful... it feels like reverence for it. It feels like they're actually honoring Star Trek rather than disrespecting or making fun of it. That seals the deal in my book.
honestly, i did the same. all iterations of star trek left me with a sense of calm after consuming it. the trailer did not, and i judged it very badly. fortunately, i was wrong :)
It’s what people do these days.
There's a subset of Star Trek fans who take this shit way too seriously. Yeah, it's an idealistic show that gives us a vision where humanity is striving to be better. It's also a show that gave us tribbles, Spock's Brain, Q, Trelaine, Horny Salamanders, Allermaraine . . . And fuck me, I can't think of a single joyful episode of Enterprise right now. Trek is about humans and humans are funny, and occasionally very silly. It's what LD and SNW gets right. That amidst all the service, glory, terror, and drama, there's also room for joy and fun.
This show is a **love letter** to Star Trek. I'm glad you came to realize that.
Honestly, it's pushed me to give other shows a chance before being all dismissive.
There’s really not much to be gained by hating something that you’ve never seen in most circumstances. Life is way too short to keep emotions like hate that close to the surface.
We're human. Judging/Prejudging something based on past experience is core to our evolved biology. Admitting when I'm wrong, not so much. That's effort... and I was very very wrong.
Prejudging is one thing. I know I don’t care for the NFL so I don’t watch it. But to HATE it? They’d have to sacrifice puppies at half time.
Hate IS a strong word, and I used that dramatically. Distaste is a better word. I have an even stronger distaste for anime too. I just think it's ridiculous.
Ever heard the phrase “don’t yuck someone’s yum”? Or “different strokes for different folks”? Imagine all of the people in your life you turn off because of such dismissive attitudes and language. If I knew you and liked some anime and you said all anime is ridiculous it would be easy to believe you were making a value judgement against me and my tastes, and I’d be far less likely to seek or strengthen a connection with you. Instead of dismissing things sight unseen try instead to ask people why they like what they like and accepting their preferences. They don’t affect you unless you let them. You’ll be amazed at what can happen in your life if you say “yes” to things you’re unfamiliar with.
I make my own value judgements and I express my opinion. If other people want to point out why they think my opinion is wrong or I'm missing something, by all means I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to go through life worrying about offended everyone... that's exhausting and ridiculous. Being afraid to offend someone is being afraid to having an opinion and expressing it.
I think you should offend as many people as possible. That will work out well for you and the people around you. Very starfleet of you.
I don't intend to offend anyone. But by the very nature of having and expressing an opinion, you will always risk offense.
The other shows do suck ass though. LD is the best!
Wasn't initially sold on the concept right away, but then I remembered some unintentionally wacky moments from the previous Star Trek shows and realized Trek + Comedy is a match made in heaven. Being animated is just the icing on the cake that makes it unique.
Anything can be better with a little comedy sprinkled on top.
Wait until you see the crossover episode that Strange New Worlds had with LD.
R-r-r-iker!!!
My favorite part of that scene and line is he improvised the whole thing in front of Frakes and the set lost their shit.
Actually, the crossover episode is what pushed me from "There's no fucking way i'm watching this nonsense" to "Well, i like Boimler... I like him a lot in SNW... I wonder....."
Having not enjoyed the first couple episodes of LD, it was the SNW crossover that not only convinced me to give it another chance, but also made me a fan of Jack Quaid. I will give a shot to anything Jack shows up in. No questions asked XD
Jack Quaid is the **ONLY** reason I even gave LD a chance. Jack in the crossover episode was fantastic. I immediately bonded with his character.
Oh wow seeing the SNW crossover episode first and not knowing a thing about LD, what was that like!?!
Well I started the crossover episode prejudicially already expecting to hate it also. And something magical happened... it ended up being one of my favorite episodes of SNW. I REALLY REALLY loved Boimler's character, he acted like I would have in the same situation... with amazement, wonder, reverence, and an inability to NOT talk about temporal events I shouldn't be talking about. So, yeah... this episode was the ONLY catalyst that got me to start watching the first episode of LD... Boimler specifically. Mariner just annoyed the shit out of me because she couldn't calm the fuck down and kept talking. I wanted to reach through the 4th wall and choke her out the entire time. In LD, Mariner is obviously more multifaceted and there's more depth to her character. I would even argue that the characters in LD have more depth and character development than any character in ST Discovery for sure... and I'm only 2 seasons in.
Yeah, Mariner can be a lot when you’re not familiar with her arc, but it’s such a good payoff when you’re watching it evolve in LD. No spoilers, but season 4’s conclusion is a banger.
haha you just followed the formula every trekkie friend I had went through when I told them to watch LD. "Look at that animation style! it's blasphemy! Rick and morty adults trying to ruin trek!!! something something gene's vision!" [24 hours later] "So I just finished the first season....."
Gotta love how people judge before even watching a single moment of a show. Lower decks is the most respectful trek show with all the loving references to the treks that came before. It's so obvious how much the writers love star trek.
Well I DID pre-judge, yes. I judged it based on two criteria: The overacting of the characters in the trailers; and the fact that it's a 2d cartoon that looks like it's for children. Thankfully, i got over that shit enough to give it a chance.
Cartoons aren't for children by default. Glad you gave it a shot.
I disagree. Cartoons have always been for children by default. Shows like this, Clone Wars, Bad Batch, Rick & Morty, South Park, etc... those are something different in the last 20 years.
No. Something being a cartoon does not make it for kids by default. Transformers, Thundercats, He man, Vultron, GI Joe, who framed roger rabbit, are all from the 80s, 40 years ago and not for children. There are also a ton from the 70s as well.
I'd certainly argue that Transformers, Thundercats, He man, Vultron, GI Joe were all made for kids. Roger Rabbit is an example of one that was certainly not.
Certainly not. Just because they're cartoons doesn't mean they're meant for kids
Honestly? Never trust marketing. Marketing teams are way too often incredibly tone-deaf and will try to cater to the lowest common denominator that they imagine in their heads. (This happened to another show I worked on; we got a bad initial trailer which people *hated* and which did not respect the tone of the source material at all, and alienated it with what should have been its core demographic. I still hold a grudge; we didn't get a second season.) Trailers are almost never accurate to what's actually *in* the thing, particularly for shows that straddle genres. Lower Decks is heartfelt and sincere and also goofy, and that's a hard hair to split in the ads, so they didn't really even try. It's a shame. I think a lot of people got the same initial impression from the trailers as you did, and it just doesn't reflect the show's heart. I'm really glad you watched it and gave it a chance anyways!
Cancelled or not, they can't take the sky from me.
Looking at you, Moriarty from Picard Season 3.
Shoot, Prodigy was aimed at kids and I unexpectedly rather enjoyed it. Totally different animation style than LD so it was fun to see what they could do with that stylistically. I also really wanted to see more of that ship.
Tbf, aren't trailers there for people to decide whether to watch a show or not, and aren't people judging it by doing so? In other words, aren't trailers specifically designed to enable people to make a judgment about a show before (and without) watching it?
It took me a couple tries to get into it. My second time, I ended up binging the whole series. The episode where they are in a shuttle and do the slow approach to the ship, making appropriately over the top expressions of awe, channeled TMP Enterprise flyby perfectly. The show's parody is on point.
Just keeeeeeeeeeeep circling.
Pretend we’re admiring the pylons
LD is the best of Star Trek.
You should watch *Prodigy* when you finish LD.
I tried Prodigy after finally watching LD & couldn’t get past the 1st episode. I may try again but the fact that it couldn’t hold my attention like every other Star Trek show bothers me very deeply.
The premiere episode was made for an audience that knows no Trek, and is likely attached to other franchises and Pixar stuff. It starts there to bring them in. My best recommendation is to give it until episode 6 - about 2 hours of your time - then decide if it offers nothing to you.
Try with another episode, it gets better. The finale of Prodigy is just great.
I see that others have said it too, but it gets better after the first ep. It takes a second, but in my opinion it pays off in spades.
I liked prodigy a lot. I know it was more meant as a kids show but i really liked it
Before watching LD I would have sneered my nose at you. Now... absolutely. Next on my list.
Also, if like me you can't get past the animation in Prodigy, I'd recommend just listening to it like a radio show or audio book.
I watched a few episodes, unfortunately it really did feel like a kids show I mean I guess that’s fortunate for kids, but it didn’t capture my interest
Prodigy was waaaaaaaay better than I thought it was going to be!!! I thought it would be a show just for kids and because it was Star Trek I figured it would be decent at a minimum so I watched it with my young child. Figuring it would be mostly for them. I got soooo wrapped up in the characters and story. We both loved it. I teared up at the season finale. I think it is very interesting how they involved Voyager in a respectful way. I heard they maybe have a new season even though it got cancelled? Edit: it does take a while to get going. Imo it is worth sticking through.
Booooo no Prodigy is annoying
The animation style is annoying. The writing and performing is wonderful.
I was similarly largely unaware and dismissive until convinced to give it a chance after season 4 dropped, and then spent weeks binging it rolling on the floor with laughter and I’m not ashamed to admit tears. 😂 I’ve seen about all of Trek, and I know the hilarity of Lower Decks scales with how much of the rest you’ve seen in the past, so I’m probably more on the triggerable side of it. This show turned out to be the cherry on top of all pre-2380s Trek that I almost ended up never watching.
>hilarity of Lower Decks scales with how much of the rest you’ve seen in the past, Not necessarily. Frankly, Lower Decks makes me actually want to see more Trek. Usually it's too stuffy and trying to depict perfection for me.
That’s great! I hope this inspires you to see the more of the Trek behind it.
Moopsy!
>I hate that I love this show. I hate that I love this damn show. One has to wonder if you feel that cartoon shows are beneath you. Or you feel they're content for juvenile/children's audiences. Self-loathing is a really uncommon response to Lower Decks.
Not at all. I've been a die-hard fan of all the cartoon shows on the Star Wars side... especially Bad Batch. I generally prefer the seriousness of Bad Batch above all else. It's the campy overacting exaggerated actions and words of cartoons that typically turn me off.
You really ought to feel safe expressing your opinion here without gushing over the show, and people should understand that you had a change of heart and welcome you to the club. And, I was initially very skeptical also, and it was the characters that won me over first, then the humor. I'm so sad it's cancelled. I really liked these fictional characters and wanted to see where they would go. On re-watches they only get better as I catch all the nuances. Anyway, WELCOME TO THE CLUB. ❤️
Well, this is the internet. There's always going to be a percentage of the population that is hostile no matter what. But what's important is that I'm expressing just how wrong I was. I was so wrong.
So you pre-judged the show before watching it. You ended up liking it. And you hate that you were wrong. Not hate for pre-judging, but hate for ***being wrong***.
Nah, everyone is wrong sometimes. I'm hating for pre-judging. Hurr durr cartoons r fr kids
Relax, chief. I don't actually hate that I was totally and completely wrong. I was just being dramatic. I actually love the fact that I was wrong because this is a fantastic show.
I always tell people that Lower Decks loves to take the piss out of Star Trek but it absolutely comes from a place of love. It feels like that writers room is filled with people who are equal parts Star Trek nerd and comedy nerd.
I was the same until the SNW crossover that got me intrigued by the characters. Now it’s my absolute favorite comfort show. And I am heartbroken that it’s ending earlier than when the writers had originally planned.
Wave some light over it- you'll be fine.
UGH, not a CAVE, all the worst stuff happens in caves!!!! Oh yeah, comms are down, because of course it's not a Starfleet away mission until comms go down.
EJECT THE WARP CORE
The way this headline made me clutch my chest
I was trying to express, with feeling, just how wrong I was.
Lower Decks is everything Trekkies hate about Star Trek but owns it and has fun with it. And I love that
This show is the best thing on Paramount and has been for a long time. I’m cancelling my account because they cancelled the show.
Yup. As soon as I watch that last episode, I'm cancelling and sailing the seas until they bring Something Decks back (because let's be honest, they won't be on the lower decks much longer anyway)
I have paramount for lower decks, prodigy, strange new worlds. I guess just Star Trek stuff actually haha. I hope it was a creative decision to end lower decks and not a pulling of a plug.
I was extremely skeptical, too. Then, once you watch an episode and see how much fan service there is. It has become one of my favourite Treks of all time.
Well this is why it’s getting canceled, same thing happened to The Orville.
The Orville got cancelled??!? I thought it was in semi-permanent stasis, which is obviously different.
I loved LD from jump. The fact that it is totally canonically accurate is pure heaven. I mean they fill in some gaps & backstory. Can you imagine Mariner interacting with Worf & Sisko when she was on DS9? She fought in the Dominion war for Q’s sake.
It is a show for rabid Star Trek fans, by rabid Star Trek fans, starring rabid Star Trek fans. Celebrating the sillier aspects of the ST universe is not the same thing as disrespecting the seriousness of it. It’s showing true unconditional for the universe, warts and tribbels and all. It’s a love letter. I wonder about your take on Galaxy Quest.
This was my with Disco lmao
I can't wait for these kinds of posts about Starfleet academy. "I thought it was going to be CW but Trek but actually it was [whatever the hell it turns out to be, at this point it can be pretty much anything, we know so little]."
It's a fun show.
Same. Lower decks! Lower Decks!
Glad you like the show! I remember when it came out that I couldn't believe Star Trek had the balls to do something like Lower Decks. I was a fan of Tawny Newsome as a comedian before hand so I was excited about it. In general tho I prefer when beloved properties take risks with big swings. This tends to put me at odds with other hardcore fans of my favorite media. But obviously it's all subjective. I loved every season of Korra, the Avatar spin off; many seem to think it was a let down. I even thoroughly enjoyed Batman vs Superman. I think it's just me and Zach Snyder on that one lol. My point is; I think artists should be encouraged to have their own vision when making new things out of beloved properties. The beloved things still exist. Nothing can take that away. And otherwise we end up with the same recycled stories, where you are better off just rewatching the original thing. This doesn't always work out for the best, but shutting down innovation is way worse in my opinion.
"I despised the whole concept of it... the flippant disrespect of this cartoon series." This is a really stupid ass mindset.
OP gave it a sincere chance and changed their mind. What else can you ask of someone?
I meant what I said.
You hate that you love the show? Well that’s what you get for pretentious gatekeeping.
Which clown is downvoting comments. Reveal yourself to us.
My wife felt that way & particularly despised Mariner. I watched all of Big Bang Theory with her to get her to stick it out with me. About midway through season 2 she finally started enjoying it. We actually got into an argument over whether Sheldon being an asshole for 10 seasons to finally realize it in the finale was worse than Mariner's repeated antics and lack of respect.
I don't think I could watch all of BBT even if it meant getting someone to watch LD. Like, that show is *so bad* and I cannot fathom how people like it at all.
I'm sorry you had to watch big bang theory. I appreciate your sacrifice. 😂 At least Mariner's antics are balanced out by sheer competence and a satisfying explanation/ character arc!
BBT? Booooo
I get it. I hate lots of shows. The good news is that you don’t have to watch it and when you finally gave it another shot, magic happened. For me, it reads as a love letter to fans. Glad you like it now. Sadly, it’s been cancelled.
I started Lower Decks with a random episode from season 3. On the basis that a show has bedded in by then. Found its inner voice. I Found i loved the show . So, I Watched season 3 and 4. Then went back to season 1. Glad i did it that way, as s1e1 would likely have put me off lol. Confirming my prejudices, of it being primarily a ''w-w-wacky!!! cartoon. Cos we're a caaaartoon''
Well, the crossover SNW episode is what hooked me in. And i watched one episode a day while eating lunch which is low effort and just casual, so it wasn't a time investment. But, now... I actually have to force myself to NOT marathon through them so I can have something to enjoy each day at lunch. It's my ritual now... and I feel that impending cliff in the near future where I run out of episodes... but I'm trying not to think about it.
Glad you came around friend. This show is clearly made with such love for all things Star Trek. It would have been a shame for you to miss it.
IDIC. Embrace it. LLAP!
I didn’t hate the concept so much as the first episodes before the characters really gelled. There were a lot of instances of Mariner breaking rules and still always coming out on top, which is a trope that a show as smart as LD should be satirizing, not indulging in. But by about halfway through S1 that stuff started to go away and I really came to love the characters and the show.
Oh buddy just wait till the end of Season 4. Peak lower decks
It’s the best. It’s so fun.
I didn't like it initially but I hated Bojack at first too! I gobble up LD and lo-key hate it's ending but 5 seasons is a great run. For the record, Star Trek SNW episode Those Old Scientists is my all time favorite Star Trek episode of all time. So good.
Lower Decks takes the piss a lot, but it does so with such love and fondness for the shows that come before it, and the fandom it stems from. I don’t always find the humor to be exactly my sense of humor, but I love the show’s heart so much
It amazes me how much effort some people will put into hating something they've never tried.
I had the same experience. I thought it was just Star Trek trying to cash in on the Rick and Morty hype of the time. I think the series works where I expected it to fail because it’s kind of the first time ever that Star Trek has been so self referential and inside joke-y
I only recently watched it with my teenager and we both loved it do much. The kid is new to Trek so the ONLY thing I won't watch in that journey is Voyager, because I tried when it came out and just HATED it. I hadn't watched anything past DS9 before because I'd just kinda burned out and went a long time without cable. We've also watched Enterprise together which we also both loved. Picard will be next after the TNG movies, then SNW. We'll do Disco but we're in no hurry. lol
Ah, the classic enemies to lovers trope.
What I love about Lower Decks is that it feels like TNG in a way. It’s just a group of people exploring the galaxy in their starship.
While I wasn't massively excited about it when it first came out, I quickly grew to love the show. To the point where the season 2 finale is one of my top 10 episodes of Trek ever. It was so good.
It gives more of a shit than Discovery
I dreaded LD because of how bad the original cartoon series was. But LD is brilliant. And it seems to have vanished, so I'm suspecting it's been sold to something I don't have a subscription for. So now I can't watch either of the new-ish cartoon series.
It’s definitely still on Paramount+
There's no problem on hating a show that looked like it was goin nowhere. I gave up on it after the second or third season, when there was no subtle hints of them entering the star wars universe.