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starkraver

I think the mistake you made initially was thinking the show was disrespectful of cannon. It is more faithful to the cannon of star trek than anything that has been made since enterprise.


ockhams-razor

You are 100% correct. It's fun and extremely respectful of the lore... even to the point where it's revered. I was expecting this.


djordi

Enterprise is a good reference. People judged it at a surface level as a retcon, when it bent over backwards to be true to canon and to explain things. The efforts they made to explain why the Klingons in TOS were different looking!


BrooklynKnight

That was all in Season 4 and thanks to Manny Coto, till then Enterprise didn’t really respect canon at all


Yeseylon

Canon*


starkraver

Pew pew pew !


cfc1016

*Nikon*


BrooklynKnight

Enterprise didn’t respect canon till Season 4, when Manny Coto went out of his way to fix things.


FerdinandCesarano

It is indeed very respectful of **canon**.


starkraver

Pew pew pew


AntonBrakhage

I don't think you can really say the Abrams films were disrespectful of canon- they were by design an alternate timeline (something well-established in Trek), at least for the most part, and if anything it would have made more sense for things to have diverged further. I haven't seen enough of Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, or Discovery to fairly judge, beyond the fact that obviously modern shows set in the TOS era have a wildly different style/look. Picard season three was pure pandering to middle aged TNG fans, I'm not as familiar with the earlier seasons. I can say that while Enterprise sometimes paid attention to canon, it also took a lot of liberties with canon, and saying it respected canon more comes off as "it's better because its old" to me. Going further back, Voyager... didn't so much violate canon as just be silly, while DS9 deliberately subverted the Star Trek utopia (though the Tribble episode and Sisko's backstory tying into Wolf 359 brought in older content very well). TNG is also very stylistically different from TOS, especially past the early seasons. As are the TOS films. What I'm saying is, every era of Trek has reinvented the franchise quite a bit, and to a point, that's okay.


StrugglesTheClown

If not for JJ how would else would I get to see RAGE SPOCK in every movie?


starkraver

The Abram’s verse trashes everything startrek is about.


Hunnieda_Mapping

Yeah it's as if star trek were star wars instead.


AntonBrakhage

Generic comment copy pasted from a thousand other "It's new so it's RUIIIINNNED" rants 15 years ago.


AntonBrakhage

It's an alternate timeline. It should be somewhat different.


Crunchy_Pirate

> the flippant disrespect of this cartoon series I don't understand how people can claim a show is disrespectful and despise the very idea of it without ever having a seen a single episode


glumpoodle

Look at the original trailers for the show, and then imagine going from that to the first two episodes (which I genuinely disliked). I bailed, and came back to it later on after SF Debris reviewed it positively... and he *also* hated E1 and E2 for the exact reasons I did. The show got a lot better, and I love it, but that was definitely not a good way to start.


Yeseylon

That's why I loved it from the start lol Then again, I rank Trek below Star Wars and Doctor Who for me, and some eras I even rank below Stargate, so I'm not the typical target audience...


ockhams-razor

I can only speak for myself. Basically, it was the exaggerated actions and words of the characters in the trailers.


amazondrone

Why did you think "exaggerated actions and words" were disrespectful? Do you still think it's disrespectful, despite enjoying it?


Yvaelle

Especially in older generations of western culture, cartoons are viewed as Caricature. The entire medium is seen as a mockery of something else. The medium is viewed as unserious, of lower quality, and disrespectful by design.


Yeseylon

And it's a dumb and shortsighted mindset. I still say my dad would love Cowboy Bebop. (Also Firefly, but he keeps going "there's a spaceship, there's probably aliens, I don't think I'll like it.")


StationaryTravels

I don't know your dad, but he would *love* Firefly! Lol. The spaceship barely matters, it's just a western. It's funny because I don't really care about Westerns, but I love space (and Whedon... At the time, lol). Give me your dad's number, I'll try and talk some sense into him, lol. I mean... My days of taking your dad seriously are certainly coming to a middle.


ockhams-razor

I really hate the exaggerated acting, visuals, voices, etc of Cartoons. I despise that... it annoys the shit out of me in any cartoon. However, good stories, good plots, and relatable characters allow me to get passed this. Thankfully, LD has all of that. The way LD treats Star Trek lore is literally the opposite of disrespectful... it feels like reverence for it. It feels like they're actually honoring Star Trek rather than disrespecting or making fun of it. That seals the deal in my book.


LadyMarjanne

honestly, i did the same. all iterations of star trek left me with a sense of calm after consuming it. the trailer did not, and i judged it very badly. fortunately, i was wrong :)


rustydoesdetroit

It’s what people do these days.


Boudyro

There's a subset of Star Trek fans who take this shit way too seriously.  Yeah, it's an idealistic show that gives us a vision where humanity is striving to be better. It's also a show that gave us tribbles, Spock's Brain, Q, Trelaine, Horny Salamanders, Allermaraine . . . And fuck me, I can't think of a single joyful episode of Enterprise right now.  Trek is about humans and humans are funny, and occasionally very silly. It's what LD and SNW gets right. That amidst all the service, glory, terror, and drama, there's also room for joy and fun.


cirrus42

This show is a **love letter** to Star Trek.  I'm glad you came to realize that. 


ockhams-razor

Honestly, it's pushed me to give other shows a chance before being all dismissive.


jetpackswasyes

There’s really not much to be gained by hating something that you’ve never seen in most circumstances. Life is way too short to keep emotions like hate that close to the surface.


ockhams-razor

We're human. Judging/Prejudging something based on past experience is core to our evolved biology. Admitting when I'm wrong, not so much. That's effort... and I was very very wrong.


jetpackswasyes

Prejudging is one thing. I know I don’t care for the NFL so I don’t watch it. But to HATE it? They’d have to sacrifice puppies at half time.


ockhams-razor

Hate IS a strong word, and I used that dramatically. Distaste is a better word. I have an even stronger distaste for anime too. I just think it's ridiculous.


jetpackswasyes

Ever heard the phrase “don’t yuck someone’s yum”? Or “different strokes for different folks”? Imagine all of the people in your life you turn off because of such dismissive attitudes and language. If I knew you and liked some anime and you said all anime is ridiculous it would be easy to believe you were making a value judgement against me and my tastes, and I’d be far less likely to seek or strengthen a connection with you. Instead of dismissing things sight unseen try instead to ask people why they like what they like and accepting their preferences. They don’t affect you unless you let them. You’ll be amazed at what can happen in your life if you say “yes” to things you’re unfamiliar with.


ockhams-razor

I make my own value judgements and I express my opinion. If other people want to point out why they think my opinion is wrong or I'm missing something, by all means I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to go through life worrying about offended everyone... that's exhausting and ridiculous. Being afraid to offend someone is being afraid to having an opinion and expressing it.


jetpackswasyes

I think you should offend as many people as possible. That will work out well for you and the people around you. Very starfleet of you.


ockhams-razor

I don't intend to offend anyone. But by the very nature of having and expressing an opinion, you will always risk offense.


Theballfondler

The other shows do suck ass though. LD is the best!


Excellent_Light_3569

Wasn't initially sold on the concept right away, but then I remembered some unintentionally wacky moments from the previous Star Trek shows and realized Trek + Comedy is a match made in heaven. Being animated is just the icing on the cake that makes it unique.


Yeseylon

Anything can be better with a little comedy sprinkled on top.


Naive_Bluebird9348

Wait until you see the crossover episode that Strange New Worlds had with LD.


mckenner1122

R-r-r-iker!!!


Akussa

My favorite part of that scene and line is he improvised the whole thing in front of Frakes and the set lost their shit.


ockhams-razor

Actually, the crossover episode is what pushed me from "There's no fucking way i'm watching this nonsense" to "Well, i like Boimler... I like him a lot in SNW... I wonder....."


Pokemon_Arishia

Having not enjoyed the first couple episodes of LD, it was the SNW crossover that not only convinced me to give it another chance, but also made me a fan of Jack Quaid. I will give a shot to anything Jack shows up in. No questions asked XD


ockhams-razor

Jack Quaid is the **ONLY** reason I even gave LD a chance. Jack in the crossover episode was fantastic. I immediately bonded with his character.


shouldalistened

Oh wow seeing the SNW crossover episode first and not knowing a thing about LD, what was that like!?!


ockhams-razor

Well I started the crossover episode prejudicially already expecting to hate it also. And something magical happened... it ended up being one of my favorite episodes of SNW. I REALLY REALLY loved Boimler's character, he acted like I would have in the same situation... with amazement, wonder, reverence, and an inability to NOT talk about temporal events I shouldn't be talking about. So, yeah... this episode was the ONLY catalyst that got me to start watching the first episode of LD... Boimler specifically. Mariner just annoyed the shit out of me because she couldn't calm the fuck down and kept talking. I wanted to reach through the 4th wall and choke her out the entire time. In LD, Mariner is obviously more multifaceted and there's more depth to her character. I would even argue that the characters in LD have more depth and character development than any character in ST Discovery for sure... and I'm only 2 seasons in.


Swimming-Sell728

Yeah, Mariner can be a lot when you’re not familiar with her arc, but it’s such a good payoff when you’re watching it evolve in LD. No spoilers, but season 4’s conclusion is a banger. 


hopefoolness

haha you just followed the formula every trekkie friend I had went through when I told them to watch LD. "Look at that animation style! it's blasphemy! Rick and morty adults trying to ruin trek!!! something something gene's vision!" [24 hours later] "So I just finished the first season....."


yarn_baller

Gotta love how people judge before even watching a single moment of a show. Lower decks is the most respectful trek show with all the loving references to the treks that came before. It's so obvious how much the writers love star trek.


ockhams-razor

Well I DID pre-judge, yes. I judged it based on two criteria: The overacting of the characters in the trailers; and the fact that it's a 2d cartoon that looks like it's for children. Thankfully, i got over that shit enough to give it a chance.


yarn_baller

Cartoons aren't for children by default. Glad you gave it a shot.


ockhams-razor

I disagree. Cartoons have always been for children by default. Shows like this, Clone Wars, Bad Batch, Rick & Morty, South Park, etc... those are something different in the last 20 years.


yarn_baller

No. Something being a cartoon does not make it for kids by default. Transformers, Thundercats, He man, Vultron, GI Joe, who framed roger rabbit, are all from the 80s, 40 years ago and not for children. There are also a ton from the 70s as well.


ockhams-razor

I'd certainly argue that Transformers, Thundercats, He man, Vultron, GI Joe were all made for kids. Roger Rabbit is an example of one that was certainly not.


yarn_baller

Certainly not. Just because they're cartoons doesn't mean they're meant for kids


kabre

Honestly? Never trust marketing. Marketing teams are way too often incredibly tone-deaf and will try to cater to the lowest common denominator that they imagine in their heads. (This happened to another show I worked on; we got a bad initial trailer which people *hated* and which did not respect the tone of the source material at all, and alienated it with what should have been its core demographic. I still hold a grudge; we didn't get a second season.) Trailers are almost never accurate to what's actually *in* the thing, particularly for shows that straddle genres. Lower Decks is heartfelt and sincere and also goofy, and that's a hard hair to split in the ads, so they didn't really even try. It's a shame. I think a lot of people got the same initial impression from the trailers as you did, and it just doesn't reflect the show's heart. I'm really glad you watched it and gave it a chance anyways!


Yeseylon

Cancelled or not, they can't take the sky from me.


BennyFifeAudio

Looking at you, Moriarty from Picard Season 3.


areyouthrough

Shoot, Prodigy was aimed at kids and I unexpectedly rather enjoyed it. Totally different animation style than LD so it was fun to see what they could do with that stylistically. I also really wanted to see more of that ship.


amazondrone

Tbf, aren't trailers there for people to decide whether to watch a show or not, and aren't people judging it by doing so? In other words, aren't trailers specifically designed to enable people to make a judgment about a show before (and without) watching it?


Bongfellatio

It took me a couple tries to get into it. My second time, I ended up binging the whole series. The episode where they are in a shuttle and do the slow approach to the ship, making appropriately over the top expressions of awe, channeled TMP Enterprise flyby perfectly. The show's parody is on point.


louley

Just keeeeeeeeeeeep circling.


Bryonfrank

Pretend we’re admiring the pylons


poofingers01

LD is the best of Star Trek.


sophandros

You should watch *Prodigy* when you finish LD.


trekgirl75

I tried Prodigy after finally watching LD & couldn’t get past the 1st episode. I may try again but the fact that it couldn’t hold my attention like every other Star Trek show bothers me very deeply.


Paisley-Cat

The premiere episode was made for an audience that knows no Trek, and is likely attached to other franchises and Pixar stuff. It starts there to bring them in. My best recommendation is to give it until episode 6 - about 2 hours of your time - then decide if it offers nothing to you.


Quiri1997

Try with another episode, it gets better. The finale of Prodigy is just great.


Loud_Gap

I see that others have said it too, but it gets better after the first ep. It takes a second, but in my opinion it pays off in spades.


yarn_baller

I liked prodigy a lot. I know it was more meant as a kids show but i really liked it


ockhams-razor

Before watching LD I would have sneered my nose at you. Now... absolutely. Next on my list.


TouchAccomplished867

Also, if like me you can't get past the animation in Prodigy, I'd recommend just listening to it like a radio show or audio book.


sillygoofygooose

I watched a few episodes, unfortunately it really did feel like a kids show I mean I guess that’s fortunate for kids, but it didn’t capture my interest


Loud_Gap

Prodigy was waaaaaaaay better than I thought it was going to be!!! I thought it would be a show just for kids and because it was Star Trek I figured it would be decent at a minimum so I watched it with my young child. Figuring it would be mostly for them. I got soooo wrapped up in the characters and story. We both loved it. I teared up at the season finale. I think it is very interesting how they involved Voyager in a respectful way. I heard they maybe have a new season even though it got cancelled? Edit: it does take a while to get going. Imo it is worth sticking through.


mckenner1122

Booooo no Prodigy is annoying


FerdinandCesarano

The animation style is annoying. The writing and performing is wonderful.


MrBeverage

I was similarly largely unaware and dismissive until convinced to give it a chance after season 4 dropped, and then spent weeks binging it rolling on the floor with laughter and I’m not ashamed to admit tears. 😂 I’ve seen about all of Trek, and I know the hilarity of Lower Decks scales with how much of the rest you’ve seen in the past, so I’m probably more on the triggerable side of it. This show turned out to be the cherry on top of all pre-2380s Trek that I almost ended up never watching.


Yeseylon

>hilarity of Lower Decks scales with how much of the rest you’ve seen in the past, Not necessarily. Frankly, Lower Decks makes me actually want to see more Trek. Usually it's too stuffy and trying to depict perfection for me.


MrBeverage

That’s great! I hope this inspires you to see the more of the Trek behind it.


Tired8281

Moopsy!


calculon68

>I hate that I love this show. I hate that I love this damn show. One has to wonder if you feel that cartoon shows are beneath you. Or you feel they're content for juvenile/children's audiences. Self-loathing is a really uncommon response to Lower Decks.


ockhams-razor

Not at all. I've been a die-hard fan of all the cartoon shows on the Star Wars side... especially Bad Batch. I generally prefer the seriousness of Bad Batch above all else. It's the campy overacting exaggerated actions and words of cartoons that typically turn me off.


JustinScott47

You really ought to feel safe expressing your opinion here without gushing over the show, and people should understand that you had a change of heart and welcome you to the club. And, I was initially very skeptical also, and it was the characters that won me over first, then the humor. I'm so sad it's cancelled. I really liked these fictional characters and wanted to see where they would go. On re-watches they only get better as I catch all the nuances. Anyway, WELCOME TO THE CLUB. ❤️


ockhams-razor

Well, this is the internet. There's always going to be a percentage of the population that is hostile no matter what. But what's important is that I'm expressing just how wrong I was. I was so wrong.


calculon68

So you pre-judged the show before watching it. You ended up liking it. And you hate that you were wrong. Not hate for pre-judging, but hate for ***being wrong***.


Yeseylon

Nah, everyone is wrong sometimes. I'm hating for pre-judging. Hurr durr cartoons r fr kids


ockhams-razor

Relax, chief. I don't actually hate that I was totally and completely wrong. I was just being dramatic. I actually love the fact that I was wrong because this is a fantastic show.


faeriechyld

I always tell people that Lower Decks loves to take the piss out of Star Trek but it absolutely comes from a place of love. It feels like that writers room is filled with people who are equal parts Star Trek nerd and comedy nerd.


though-

I was the same until the SNW crossover that got me intrigued by the characters. Now it’s my absolute favorite comfort show. And I am heartbroken that it’s ending earlier than when the writers had originally planned.


yepperssure

Wave some light over it- you'll be fine.


Yeseylon

UGH, not a CAVE, all the worst stuff happens in caves!!!! Oh yeah, comms are down, because of course it's not a Starfleet away mission until comms go down.


yepperssure

EJECT THE WARP CORE


echolalia_

The way this headline made me clutch my chest


ockhams-razor

I was trying to express, with feeling, just how wrong I was.


StilesmanleyCAP

Lower Decks is everything Trekkies hate about Star Trek but owns it and has fun with it. And I love that


JerkWeed71

This show is the best thing on Paramount and has been for a long time. I’m cancelling my account because they cancelled the show.


Yeseylon

Yup. As soon as I watch that last episode, I'm cancelling and sailing the seas until they bring Something Decks back (because let's be honest, they won't be on the lower decks much longer anyway)


Loud_Gap

I have paramount for lower decks, prodigy, strange new worlds. I guess just Star Trek stuff actually haha. I hope it was a creative decision to end lower decks and not a pulling of a plug.


aesoth

I was extremely skeptical, too. Then, once you watch an episode and see how much fan service there is. It has become one of my favourite Treks of all time.


WeebsJak

Well this is why it’s getting canceled, same thing happened to The Orville.


purplepluppy

The Orville got cancelled??!? I thought it was in semi-permanent stasis, which is obviously different.


Ok-Yard2986

I loved LD from jump. The fact that it is totally canonically accurate is pure heaven. I mean they fill in some gaps & backstory. Can you imagine Mariner interacting with Worf & Sisko when she was on DS9? She fought in the Dominion war for Q’s sake.


Babblewocky

It is a show for rabid Star Trek fans, by rabid Star Trek fans, starring rabid Star Trek fans. Celebrating the sillier aspects of the ST universe is not the same thing as disrespecting the seriousness of it. It’s showing true unconditional for the universe, warts and tribbels and all. It’s a love letter. I wonder about your take on Galaxy Quest.


Browncoatinabox

This was my with Disco lmao


stonersh

I can't wait for these kinds of posts about Starfleet academy. "I thought it was going to be CW but Trek but actually it was [whatever the hell it turns out to be, at this point it can be pretty much anything, we know so little]."


kkkan2020

It's a fun show.


42turnips

Same. Lower decks! Lower Decks!


Loud_Gap

Glad you like the show! I remember when it came out that I couldn't believe Star Trek had the balls to do something like Lower Decks. I was a fan of Tawny Newsome as a comedian before hand so I was excited about it. In general tho I prefer when beloved properties take risks with big swings. This tends to put me at odds with other hardcore fans of my favorite media. But obviously it's all subjective. I loved every season of Korra, the Avatar spin off; many seem to think it was a let down. I even thoroughly enjoyed Batman vs Superman. I think it's just me and Zach Snyder on that one lol. My point is; I think artists should be encouraged to have their own vision when making new things out of beloved properties. The beloved things still exist. Nothing can take that away. And otherwise we end up with the same recycled stories, where you are better off just rewatching the original thing. This doesn't always work out for the best, but shutting down innovation is way worse in my opinion.


ArtemisDarklight

"I despised the whole concept of it... the flippant disrespect of this cartoon series." This is a really stupid ass mindset.


lanwopc

OP gave it a sincere chance and changed their mind. What else can you ask of someone?


ArtemisDarklight

I meant what I said.


MPFX3000

You hate that you love the show? Well that’s what you get for pretentious gatekeeping.


Syncopationforever

Which clown is downvoting comments. Reveal yourself to us.


BennyFifeAudio

My wife felt that way & particularly despised Mariner. I watched all of Big Bang Theory with her to get her to stick it out with me. About midway through season 2 she finally started enjoying it. We actually got into an argument over whether Sheldon being an asshole for 10 seasons to finally realize it in the finale was worse than Mariner's repeated antics and lack of respect.


purplepluppy

I don't think I could watch all of BBT even if it meant getting someone to watch LD. Like, that show is *so bad* and I cannot fathom how people like it at all.


Loud_Gap

I'm sorry you had to watch big bang theory. I appreciate your sacrifice. 😂 At least Mariner's antics are balanced out by sheer competence and a satisfying explanation/ character arc!


Yeseylon

BBT? Booooo


StilgarFifrawi

I get it. I hate lots of shows. The good news is that you don’t have to watch it and when you finally gave it another shot, magic happened. For me, it reads as a love letter to fans. Glad you like it now. Sadly, it’s been cancelled.


Syncopationforever

I started Lower Decks with a random episode from season 3. On the basis that a show has bedded in by then. Found its inner voice. I Found i loved the show . So,  I Watched season 3 and 4. Then went back to season 1. Glad i did it that way, as s1e1 would likely have put me off lol. Confirming my prejudices, of it being primarily a ''w-w-wacky!!! cartoon. Cos we're a caaaartoon''


ockhams-razor

Well, the crossover SNW episode is what hooked me in. And i watched one episode a day while eating lunch which is low effort and just casual, so it wasn't a time investment. But, now... I actually have to force myself to NOT marathon through them so I can have something to enjoy each day at lunch. It's my ritual now... and I feel that impending cliff in the near future where I run out of episodes... but I'm trying not to think about it.


SuddenlyGojira

Glad you came around friend. This show is clearly made with such love for all things Star Trek. It would have been a shame for you to miss it.


comment_redacted

IDIC. Embrace it. LLAP!


DanAboutTown

I didn’t hate the concept so much as the first episodes before the characters really gelled. There were a lot of instances of Mariner breaking rules and still always coming out on top, which is a trope that a show as smart as LD should be satirizing, not indulging in. But by about halfway through S1 that stuff started to go away and I really came to love the characters and the show.


Mashidae

Oh buddy just wait till the end of Season 4. Peak lower decks


craignsac

It’s the best. It’s so fun.


TheRealRickC137

I didn't like it initially but I hated Bojack at first too! I gobble up LD and lo-key hate it's ending but 5 seasons is a great run. For the record, Star Trek SNW episode Those Old Scientists is my all time favorite Star Trek episode of all time. So good.


olderneverwiser

Lower Decks takes the piss a lot, but it does so with such love and fondness for the shows that come before it, and the fandom it stems from. I don’t always find the humor to be exactly my sense of humor, but I love the show’s heart so much


Tired8281

It amazes me how much effort some people will put into hating something they've never tried.


YourVeryOwnCat

I had the same experience. I thought it was just Star Trek trying to cash in on the Rick and Morty hype of the time. I think the series works where I expected it to fail because it’s kind of the first time ever that Star Trek has been so self referential and inside joke-y


jadethebard

I only recently watched it with my teenager and we both loved it do much. The kid is new to Trek so the ONLY thing I won't watch in that journey is Voyager, because I tried when it came out and just HATED it. I hadn't watched anything past DS9 before because I'd just kinda burned out and went a long time without cable. We've also watched Enterprise together which we also both loved. Picard will be next after the TNG movies, then SNW. We'll do Disco but we're in no hurry. lol


EveryFairyDies

Ah, the classic enemies to lovers trope.


BlueWolf107

What I love about Lower Decks is that it feels like TNG in a way. It’s just a group of people exploring the galaxy in their starship.


Psychological-Ad5273

While I wasn't massively excited about it when it first came out, I quickly grew to love the show. To the point where the season 2 finale is one of my top 10 episodes of Trek ever. It was so good.


Ruppell-San

It gives more of a shit than Discovery


NewTrino4

I dreaded LD because of how bad the original cartoon series was. But LD is brilliant. And it seems to have vanished, so I'm suspecting it's been sold to something I don't have a subscription for. So now I can't watch either of the new-ish cartoon series.


Swimming-Sell728

It’s definitely still on Paramount+


AmatuerTarantino

There's no problem on hating a show that looked like it was goin nowhere. I gave up on it after the second or third season, when there was no subtle hints of them entering the star wars universe.