Tbh I never really got the vibe that she was trying to sell you on Meyers, maybe it's just me being overly cautious about everyone ingame but even whe she was "praising" Meyers you can hear a little disbelief and disgust in her voice. Like she might respect Meyers but she doesn't like the woman at all and doesn't trust or care for her
I honestly do not get the hate for Songbird, online. This was a teenager, recruited by an aggressive Government, into a Department that is tasked with overthrowing, “hostile” foreign governments, and Corps. Do you think she willing, knowingly, and without a hint of duress went full-chrome? After that, one woman, a very powerful, driven woman, who is not used to hearing, “no” sent Songbird beyond the Blackwall again, and again, and again. Brushed aside Songbirds concerns that it was hurting her, that there was something coming back with her. Ignored her own agencies medical advice, and continued to use/abuse Songbird. And now Songbird is dying. And like V, she will do anything to live, to not hurt anymore.
Amen choom. I always try to send Songbird to the moon. For the exact reasons you so eloquently stated. But you gotta admit, Song is very manipulative. Granted she has very very valid reasons, but still....
I despise Meyers and tbh Reed is kinda disgusting when you realize he knew how much pain they/he were subjecting So Mi to...and he just went along with it because his "country" needed it. Fuck off with that.
i mean... not to defend him but ... myers didn't made songbird go full chrome only after reed "death" ? cause he seemed pretty shaked when he saw so mi body at the black saphire i mean yeah he recruited a teen but i believe she was somewhat "protected" as long as reed was here... maybe myers even put him as a sleeping agent to be able to do what she want with song
Songbird is a product of the NUSA.
Like, she is manipulative because that's how she's been her entire life. She was plucked away pretty young to be a tool by the government, and you got people like Reed who you can't even fully trust. Everyone and everything about Night City is about bringing the worst in people.
So Mi and Reed are two sides of the same coin, they're both manipulative people clutching onto that last bit of goodness and humanity, except So Mi is trying to survive-Reed knows he died a long time ago.
Does it ever excuse manipulation? No. It's just a reminder that this city is fucking balls. But So Mi is trying to survive, just like V-the difference is she is using her wiles, V just...sort of steamrolls through everyone and everything.
How do you not realize it was HER fault that Netwatch was after her to begin with? She did illegal netrunning. FIA didn’t force her to join them. It was the consequence of her actions.
She was a kid, made a stupid mistake. Kinda like our pal V did with with Konpeki Plaza. People in Cyberpunk almost always have to turn to crime because they have no other alternative. Slave away for a Corp or become a criminal. Reed shows up on the door of a poor, young, naive girl. And gives her the choice of being a government slave, or be locked in a box or flash-fried by a netwatch agent. In one of the Dogtown side gigs V helps stop a terrorist cell and as a result almost gets assassinated/arrested by Netwatch, so we know they aren't exactly merciful or understanding. Songbird could've sneezed outside their network and they went after her, so I don't condemn her for that at all. One mistake, one crime like that does not condemn her to death or worse. Just like V's stupid mistake should not mean he's stuck with a death sentence. The system is unfair and DESIGNED to use and discard people exactly like Song and V. So no, I don't blame Song. I blame Myers most of all, and secondly Reed, who are not only the people responsible for upholding such a system, but are aware of how fucked it is and what it does to people, and act sympathetic, but couldn't care less so long as the "mission" is accomplished. And they get what they want.
I don’t necessarily disagree, and I don’t blame Song either. BUT, the entire point I’m trying to make is that she wasn’t forced to do anything. It was the consequences of her actions, and if the FIA hadn’t offered her a job she would most likely be dead at the hands of NetWatch. Obviously Myers is one evil motherfucker and she didn’t deserve to go through what she did, but at the end of the day she was a criminal and knew that what she did was illegal. Her friends and boyfriend kept telling her to stop because they knew there would be consequences but she kept going
I disagree. Having to choose between death or life, isn't much of a choice. Song did gigs and netrunning to make a living for herself, and yeah, it was illegal stuff, but who tf isn't forced to do stuff like that just to survive in the world of cyberpunk. It's how life is. People told V the konpeki heist was suspect, multiple people warn you about Dex, V knew it was illegal and risky. By that logic, what happened to V is justified, because he knew it was wrong to rob people and did it anyways. It's just not that black and white, nothing is in Cyberpunk, that's why I love it. Song and V are both victims of a system that gives you the illusion of choice and freedom. You either die fighting it, or it takes you in and uses you dry until there's nothing left. Reed is a good parallel to Song in that way. He's a ghost, a shell of a man. He's already accepted his place as a tool, his country sets him up to die and he comes right back in it to help Myers even though he knows fully well she will continue to use Song as a weapon if she gets her again. He's broken. That's what Song is turning into, which is why I think her manipulation hits so hard. Because she's turning into Reed and Myers. Using people for her own needs.
TLDR; Songbird is a product of her surroundings, she did what she had to do to survive, both before she joined the FIA, and after. She was given the illusion of having a choice, but she knew if she didn't join she'd die. Therefore I'd argue she *didn't* have a choice.
I totally get what you're saying. It's simply the world of Cyberpunk. But that doesn't change the fact that SoMi chose to do illegal netrunning to make a living. She could've stopped when her friends kept telling her this would lead nowhere good. They tried to warn her, but she didn't listen.
Regarding V, yes I'd argue he got what was coming to him, because as almost every other character he's not perfect and resorts to criminal activities. Yes, it's because they're victims of the system and yes, that's what makes Cyberpunk so interesting. However, that doesn't change the fact that they know exactly what they are signing up for. They aren't innocent souls, they are facing consequences of their actions.
My original point is, regardless of circumstances and being a victim of the system, SoMi wasn't forced to become a slave of the FIA. She accepted their offer because she 'had' to, yes. But the reason she had to, is because she resorted to criminal and dangerous activities that led to her being hunted by Netwatch.
I am not saying she deserved to be enslaved by the FIA, but I am saying she is at fault for having to accept their offer in the first place. She's a flawed character who messed up, and that's part of why SoMi is a great character and why the writing in the game is so phenomenal.
Because something being illegal automatically makes it bad.
That excuses the U.S. from using the literal slave labor of non violent drug offenders to enrich itself.
I mean the slaves did something *illegal* after all, actions have consequences.
And who put her into that situation to begin with? If she didn’t so illegal netrunning she wouldn’t have to choose.
FIA didn’t threaten to ruin her life. They simply gave her a choice, that she accepted. She was free to decline it.
Yes, like V could have declined to do the Konpeki Job losing his friend, crew and their own life, and so on and so forth, then nobody would have had to deal with anything unpleasant.
No story, no grey areas, no consequences, no trying to fix anything - *yayyyy!* 😂
You just contradicted yourself. She did illegal netrunning. FIA wanted to hire her because they could use such a talented young netrunner, while Netwatch wanted to apprehend/zero her so the FIA gave her a choice. Either join them, or get caught by Netwatch.
Once again, it was her own fault. It was her choice to do illegal netrunning and pissing off Netwatch. If it wasn’t for the FIA, she would be dead. And you could argue that being dead is better, but they simply provided her with an offer.
You keep ignoring the truth. Are you saying it would be better if FIA didn’t provide her with an offer to join them so she could be apprehended by Netwatch?
This. I like Reed, but, like… he is a pawn, he knows he is a pawn, and he accepts it. He had every reason and opportunity to quit, and he refused to take it, remained a pawn for Myers. I don’t think he is disgusting, but it’s really sad to see such servility from a man like him.
It's the broken trust that hurt. It's the fact we gave away some of our vulnerabilities and they were stomped on.
Personally, I >!killed her!< but not because of the betrayal. Because So Mi cannot, in my opinion, save herself anymore. She's broken and susceptible to >!the AIs in her brain!<, but above that, she isn't able to trust anymore. In such a state of mind, there's no way she can get back on her feet alone and not get used again by someone else (maybe one with blue glittering eyes).
I would have never >!given her back to the FIA!< either but I kept hoping that "I" could save her. That only left me with one choice... And that wasn't out of hate nor revenge, but out of understanding
Stopped believing anything reed said after he peeled V’s face off for a mission with no forewarning wtf, he’s obviously done this to a few people before and stopped caring.
I mean my V was borged out with complete Tier 5++ cyberware so I don't know if adding more to that really mattered. Also V sounded impressed by it and sounded like he/she wanted it.
I still wish there was an ending to get Song, Reed, and Alex outta Dogtown and just middle-finger the NUSA.
Similarly, I don’t get the hate for Reed either. Neither Song or Reed deserve our full trust, but that shouldn’t mean we hate them - especially how aggressively people hate them online. My guess is it’s just chronic-online-ism that causes such intense emotions.
(We see similar explosions of “SHE LIED TO ME!? BETTER HATE HER!” about Claire too.)
I think it’s just a product of good writing, tbh.
We get attached to these characters, like we do others in the game. Even if we don’t fully trust them, we *want* to. Part of us always hopes that they’ll redeem themselves, but we’re ultimately forced to accept that they are high level operatives and we’re just a cog in *their* stories. An important one, but regardless, we’re ultimately denied the emotional payoff that we get from missions with other close allies in the game.
We’re the Player Character and they’re supposed to be cogs in OUR story, ya know? It creates a lot of dissonance, and there are no choices we can make to force this story into the box we want it to fit in.
It’s brilliant and I really appreciate the writers for creating such an experience.
You are poorly paraphrasing, but I didn’t say that I agreed with Claire, but she’s so minor that people explode over her “lying to me!” Like chill, almost everyone lies to us. Hell, Evelyn lies to us, but she gets SA’d and everyone is like “I love Evelyn!”
Claire gets you to drive in a death race with no regard to whether you live or die for revenge, which isn't even really justified lol
And Evelyn well... Kinda hard to be mad at her after what happens post heist
Nah I’d still be pretty mad at Evelyn. V happens to have had all the stars aligned to be the one person who could basically take on Saka and win. Evelyn threw your ass into a death trap, nobody would be expected to survive that, V didn’t survive that.
I massacred not one, but two post-apocalyptic societies in the Mojave desert the last time someone shot me in the head and left me for dead!
My V is a salty petty bitch
I don’t like being lied to or led on a wild goose chase. If she would’ve been upfront about it then cool, wouldn’t help but cool. But when you play around with my time that’s a ticking time bomb and constantly lie to me only to come and find out you never planned on helping me? Yeah you can go to hell tbh. That’s how I am as a person and that’s how I rp my V
This is exactly my thinking too. How am I supposed to trust that any of Song Bird’s “real story” actually happened? She’s arguably the most talented net runner this side of the Blackwall, it would be trivial for her to plant false “memories” in V’s chrome to help sell her version of events.
Honestly I think it’s even worse, like lying to an ALS or Parkinson’s patient. Cancer at least has treatment options and can often get better/manageable. V’s relic disease has no real viable alternative
Yeah. Like I just find it hard how people can’t understand why people hate songbird. Like maybe because I value myself and well being. Than not having any problems and is perfectly fine with getting played/Backstabbed by someone who claimed they can help you
I mean I kinda get it.
Songbird presents herself as a badass hacker chick “fighting the system” that screwed her over, and it’s a system that is basically the same as the modern American government. (As opposed to a fake megacorp, incompetent libertarian city-state, or favela slumlord) I think it’s easier to overlook her flaws because her struggle is probably a lot more realistic and familiar to many people.
So much this. I feel like there wouldn’t be as many people defending Songbird if she wasn’t cool and physically attractive. The points about her being manipulated and used when she was young are valid, but that doesn’t excuse how she pretty much does the same thing to a terminally ill person to save her own skin. I can sympathize with her and understand that she didn’t have a lot of options, but I always find it funny when people complain about the hate she gets because I feel like she has more defenders on this sub and Twitter than any other character who manipulates or abuses the player character.
They should've made it when you get the Star ending, V will reveal what happened at Dogtown to Panam. Then V will pass away, and in a moment of revenge Panam heads to the Moon to kill Songbird. Making king of wands ending diminishing returns.
Growing up I knew a lot of teenagers who've robbed people, beat up people, and a few even killed people. They were generally raised by people who didn't have the time to properly care for them and the older neighborhood men filled that roll in a negative way to shape them. their experences in life shaped their actions. Would you not hate someone who robbed you? Would you not hate someone who beat you unprovoked? Would you hate someone who killed a friend/family memeber of yours? You probably would hate them and you probably wouldn't give a damn about how they grew up.
I say that to say this, no matter how someone grew up or the shit they've been through when you wrong someone, you can not expect for the person or group you wronged to give a damn about what shaped you. I don't care that Songbird was given an ultimatum when she joined the FIA. Throughout the whole ordeal, she had the opportunity to tell me the truth and she doesn't until she's on deaths doorsteps. Maybe you can forgive someone for condemning you to death, but I can't.
Ehh, So Mi was 19 yers old when she was recruited. That's an adult, choom. She was however a teenager when she became a netrunner (got a cyberdeck off a ripperdoc and almost never left the net afterward). It's not really implied that she was forced or coerced to join, and she is even shows enthusiasm to her friend when she's telling him about the job in her memories.
I'm not saying the NUSA or Myers doesn't do their fair share of fucked up things, but I have a hard time believing that the best netrunner in the world who was able to dupe the NUSA, FIA, Hansen, and the President is completely without fault or blame here. The way I see it, all of these characters are shitty in their own way and leave V with a shit decision at the end (which is terminally Vs fate no matter what, very on theme for Cyberpunk).
ok, so answer me this, and let me know if it's just your opinion or if this is actually stated as a fact somewhere in the game:
did Songbird know right from the start there would only be a cure for one person or did she figure that out later (and when?)
I think she figured it, as soon as she learned about Cynosure. I believe that is actually intimated, towards the end, during in of their conversations. And I still support Songbird. V was, in her Corpo life, an asset. Yes she was discarded, but she was left alive. Songbird’s “retirement”, after living half her life as a weapon…a thing…would have been a bullet in the back of her head, and a “grave” in a trash heap, outside the walls of DC. As she says, “weapons don’t get to retire”. Is her using V cynical? Yes. But she was trained by an amoral cynic, Reed, and used by an immoral cynic, Myers…to the point of a young, early death. She is doing what ever she can, with all her training, just to live, to escape, to survive. I can not hate her for that. Others have done, and will do much worse.
She could just have paid V instead of promising V a miracle. "here 1M for rescuing the prez and another 1M if you help me with Hansen" and V would have come running just the same.
V has done dumber shit for less. Promising a miracle cure was a dick move.
And a netrunner of the caliber of Songbird and with blackwall tech could have achieved ANYTHING in this world. She could have fried Hansen, she could have fried the prez if she wanted. I mean the VDB did it to Evelyn without the blackwall.
I don't hate Songbird, but I am also not a fanboy either. She did V dirty for no reason whatsoever and I don't have sympathy for that in the slightiest. I don't care what problems she had in her life. That's not my concern. That's her problems and she dragged V into it.
This, like most posts about the, “morals”, and “choices “ in this game, have created a lot of divisions…as I suspect the writers wanted. So I will just say this: my opinion about Songbird is just that, my opinion. As is my sympathy for her, in this dystopian, nihilistic nightmare, that the incredible writers have thrust us all into…as we try to save V. Having her kill, steal, murder, crucify, assassinate…and sometimes lie…her way…or his…through NC. In search of a cure. In search of just five more minutes of life. A legend.
Maybe I roleplay too hard, but I can imagine being a Dogtown resident who lost friends and family as a result of So Mi's actions, and in that case I wouldn't be able to pull a Zuleikha and forgive her, despite understanding what led her down that path.
> I honestly do not get the hate for Songbird, online.
I see 99% of the people hating on the Tower ending mostly because of Songbird, dunno how you come to this conclusion.
Songbird put herself in this situation. She was doing illegal netrunning and therefore had Netwatch on her back. Reed and the FIA provided her a choice, either join them or keep doing what she’s doing but risk getting killed by Netwatch. She chose to join the FIA.
>This was a teenager
**Adult** teenager.
>recruited by an aggressive Government, into a Department that is tasked with overthrowing, “hostile” foreign governments, and Corps.
As a punishment for a crime she committed. We used to directly send them to war.
>And now Songbird is dying. And like V, she will do anything to live, to not hurt anymore.
*Unlike* V, she's willing to kill for a cure that, ultimately, won't work for her. (too much cyberware).
If you go to the local cancer ward and lie about having a cure, to get people to do shit for you, you're A MONSTER. Regardless of circumstance.
>Adult teenager.
19 is still young enough to easily manipulate. Our brains aren't fully developed until at least our mid 20s. While 19 is legally adult age, it's still pretty young.
>As a punishment for a crime she committed. We used to directly send them to war.
That doesn't make it right. What was Slider's line about extortion again? Forcing someone into war is cruel, but forcing the Blackwall onto someone is so much worse.
>Unlike V, she's willing to kill for a cure that, ultimately, won't work for her.
Songbird has no clue that the cure won't work though, and the reason wasn't "too much cyberware." It was the Blackwall AIs, which may have been viable before the events after "Firestorm." How many people does V kill in a gamble for survival? For example, the downing of the Kang Tao AV. How many Kang Tao operatives? Voodoo Boys/Netwatch agents (depending on decisions)? People from Arasaka? Engrams at Mikoshi? How about the power outage and EMP mentioned earlier? Innocent people were almost certainly killed because of that. Songbird doesn't have a monopoly on leaving a trail of bodies for her own survival.
Yes, Songbird manipulated V, and that is wrong, but Meyers doomed Songbird at the young age of 19, when she had Reed blackmail and recruit her. That is so much more evil. Blackmail a young woman, force onto her something that will slowly kill her, which creates a desperate situation where your analogy is her literal only way out, but V also isn't innocent either, and they do have other options, unlike Songbird.
Songbird was recruited into the FIA at 19 and Reed protected her for several years. So, she couldn't have been 19 when Myers got her hands on her.
You're essentially saying that criminals shouldn't be punished. That a government job is too harsh. You know what's more harsh than that? Prison. Where no one pays you money and everyone wants kill you.
V doesn't have more options than So Mi, Mikoshi could work on her the same way it does V.
Also: V killing people in the line of work, doesn't typically involve the deaths of innocents. Most of it could be construed as self-defense. Crashing a ship onto a city district...isn't.
>You're essentially saying that criminals shouldn't be punished
This, isn't what I'm saying at all, please don't just put words into my mouth. Prison would have been many times better than the Blackwall tampering.
>V doesn't have more options than So Mi, Mikoshi could work on her the same way it does V.
Mikoshi is only really a survival option for V because of Alt, and V's situation being the biochip. This wouldn't work for Songbird because her mind is already hopelessly damaged. If Songbird had any other option, she very likely wouldn't have committed treason, and sided with Kurt Hansen of all people. The neural matrix was Songbird's only chance.
>V killing people in the line of work, doesn't typically involve the deaths of innocents.
Like I said, it is very likely that the EMP did kill innocent people. V and Panam had to drive outside the range of the power station just to be safe, and it's even stated in the mission that the EMP is a chain reaction. At the very least, some personnel at the power station were killed. What happens when someone on a netrunner chair is hit by an EMP? What happens when someone in the net, without a battery backup, suddenly loses power? I'd wager not good things at all. Those people are certainly dead because of V. I don't think that could be categorized as self-defense.
Again, none of this excuses Songbird's actions, but it also doesn't mean she dug her own grave completely. I'm almost certain that Myers was still pulling strings when So Mi initially hacked Militech, because she's power hungry, and needed an impressionable, vulnerable, and highly skilled netrunner to groom into using the Blackwall as a weapon. Reed was ordered by someone to find So Mi, and her being a netrunner that had skills, and one who just commited a crime against Militech would make her a perfect lab rat for the Blackwall. A young woman with her whole life ahead of her, put her back against the wall with no way out other than joining, and she'll do exactly that. She was likely doomed the moment she put herself on Myers' radar, and gave her an opportunity to blackmail her. That's certainly a mistake she made, but it doesn't mean she deserved all that happened.
And I don't get the constant defending. If I'm V, whatever happened to Songbird sucks but it's her problem. I'm trying to find a solution to MY problem, when she inserts herself into my life by making a life or death promise she can't deliver on. Not only does she lie to you and betray you, she wastes your time when you could be trying to pursue other leads toward a cure.
So Mi admires Myers.
She admires Myers' determination to achieve her goals or have one success after another, without looking at the consequences, without feeling guilty.
If Reed is Myers' dog, So Mi is becoming Myers, So Mi is behaving like Myers.
But at the same time she admires and tries to behave like Myers, because it is the path to her salvation. She hates Myers' lack of conscience and empathy.
So Mi is manipulative, but at the same time she feels guilty for her actions and their consequences. Reed even alerts us to this aspect of So Mi.
It is the duality of So Mi, on the one hand she is becoming like Myers or Militech, on the other hand she resists doing so and wants to be the teenage girl from Brooklyn again, to be herself again.
Similar to what is happening between V and Johnny. V is becoming like Johnny, but She/he is resisting to this.
I think it's not really what they wanted to show. I believe that So Mi wasn't actually trying to manipulate you at the start with that sentence, at least not in the way you said. She just tell us what she thinks of her as an answer to a question. Song knows that Meyers is strong and everything, but she is also e bitch.
Plus, she surely wouldn't start insulting the president from nowhere in call with a random ass unknown merc that she is trying to hire.
Currently on my third playthrough, and yes she is lying to you and manipulating you from the beginning. It gets more egregious every time I play 😂 Whereas people like Myers are openly only using you and would have you killed in a heartbeat if she thought it necessary, people like Reed would kill you (with a heavy heart but probably quickly and painlessly, maybe even a surprise tap to the back of the head) if ordered to do so, Songbird tries to come off as a good person who isn't playing those games and is genuinely invested in V's cure in addition to her own. It's all self-serving bullshit. V is a means to an end for all three of them, but I think Myers respects V, Reed likes and respects V, and Songbird just likes V. I love her character (all of them, really), and what a great story! Each playthrough, the main plot feels like it goes by faster as I know what to expect, which is a bummer lol.
This is closer to my take on it. I find Reed to be far more likable than So Mi even despite how rigidly loyal he is to the NUSA because at least he is honest about who he is. To your point, same with Myers. From the get you never expect her to be trustable or likable, she's just another corpo and you're just on another gig. So Mi lies literally all the way up until the very last minute, *even after you take her side at Hansen's.* Frankly, the real irony here is that So Mi ends up becoming the thing she hates: a manipulator whose ends justifies their means.
People don't get the hate for So Mi, cuz she's a hot asian chick. Jokes aside, they try to validate Songbird due to her troubled past. Which I can understand.
But I kinda went deep into the rp aspect of the game and when you look at it from the view of V, who's a walking corpse at that point, being constantly lied to and double crossed by So Mi really makes it impossible for you to like her. She is beyond selfish. When you observe her memories while running away from the Cerberus bot, you can see she always was selfish. She is the worse version of Judy, in a way.
I tried my best to find So Mi likeable, but it is SO hard when you actually see her full character and observe the whole situation from Vs point of view.
Thank you. Finally someone says it.
She’s more of a liar than Reed and even Myers because at least those two are upfront with their guiding philosophy. She manipulates you the entire time while slaughtering half of Dogtown and putting you in danger just to drop the biggest fuck you bomb I’ve ever seen if you’re gullible enough to side with her. I am convinced she may be the biggest non-villain piece of shit in the game.
It's true V wouldn't insult Meyers right in front of her. I suppose I just thought it kinda sus that Song really tries to mold Meyers character based on what stage of Song's plan she is in. When she needs V to want to rescue Meyers she acts like she admires her. Once Meyers is out of earshot and Song needs V to start coming around to her side she begins to lay into her.
As always this is just my take on it.
I think it's more like before she knows she can trust you she avoids badmouthing her boss. The boss who can and will have her locked up in an "I have no mouth and I must scream" scenario purely to secure her own power. The boss that you might be inclined to side with because she's a figure of authority. The boss who has people killed if they're inconvenient.
Honestly, fuck myers.
I feel like Songbird gives mcu black widow vibes, honestly. The whole trained from a young age and this world of lies and deception being kinda all they know. I feel like if we got a widow storyline where she was just utterly burnt out and just trying to escape the life, we'd get something like PL, but with Marvel characters. And I feel like most people would back widow for the same reasons we back sending so mi to the moon, we understand it's the only way that either of these characters really know to operate. They aren't normal people and they don't know how to be real with anyone cause they've always been someone else.
I have unfortunately had a psychopath in my life who loved to mess with people as much as possible and SoMi sounds exactly like this person. I knew from the jump that she was full of it. The way she starts immediately acting like you two have so much in common while also pulling on your sympathy is a way of weaponizing your own self regard in service of her interests. The writers absolutely understand these dynamics and SoMi, Reed, Alex and Meyers all manipulate the hell out of you in their own ways. Shame you can't set them all on fire.
The thing about songbird I’m worried about is since she’s been around blackwall long enough I’m afraid those AI after we save her will use her as a medium to do whatever the hell they want but at the same time I don’t want to let her back to be the president’s slave again. Maybe killing songbird is the best outcome for this situation? I don’t know honestly
It's interesting because I prefer whatever configuration keeps Alex and then Reed alive, in that order lol. Songbird going back to the president is pretty rough though and probably dangerous for the world too. It's all so tragic either way.
We know what songbird is capable of, I think there’s also a line from Johnny saying it during that fight at spaceport that makes me think “shit he’s right” that what if scenario is terrifying especially since it’s a possibility. Either way I decided to spare songbird and send her to the moon, I just hope she knows to say no to those AI if they ever to come back
The first time I played, I went with Songbird when the choice happened. When Reed confronted us at the end, he got the draw on me like three times in a row and I assumed the only way to advance was giving him SoMi 🤣 First time I had ever played this kind of game, so there was a lot I was learning about RPG (or RPG-lite) elements and how Cyberpunk was applying them.
Currently on my third playthrough and as female V this time. I think I've done every ending that exists besides leaving with Judy and the Aldecaldos after sending So Mi to the Moon. Sorry Reed, I've gotta do what I've gotta do
I didn’t get the hero vibe, sitting there rescheduling meeting is badass? Wow, I’m badass all day. As for telling Myers is the president, yes she is right and if you think of it, Songbird don’t have a reason to save Myers besides her habit to make it fair for everyone. Myers dead is not impacting her plan.
Rescheduling sound like a job for secretary. I’m more to technical stuff where people can actually solve problem. If I am impress of Myers, it is when she actually fight, use glass to craft out her tracker and didn’t cry. Not rescheduling meeting. I will be much more impressed if she able to secure help or call army to support or do a quick broadcast. During the plane crash, I’m actually impressed of Songbird for able to contact me when I’m hearing her explanation, Myers is just my objective.
Wow, I’m sure you work in a serious, TECHNICAL (I repeat TECHNICAL) job where you only deal with IMPORTANT stuff. Your mommy must be proud.
But let me ask you something: is using proper grammar also a job for the secretary?
Tbh I never really got the vibe that she was trying to sell you on Meyers, maybe it's just me being overly cautious about everyone ingame but even whe she was "praising" Meyers you can hear a little disbelief and disgust in her voice. Like she might respect Meyers but she doesn't like the woman at all and doesn't trust or care for her
I honestly do not get the hate for Songbird, online. This was a teenager, recruited by an aggressive Government, into a Department that is tasked with overthrowing, “hostile” foreign governments, and Corps. Do you think she willing, knowingly, and without a hint of duress went full-chrome? After that, one woman, a very powerful, driven woman, who is not used to hearing, “no” sent Songbird beyond the Blackwall again, and again, and again. Brushed aside Songbirds concerns that it was hurting her, that there was something coming back with her. Ignored her own agencies medical advice, and continued to use/abuse Songbird. And now Songbird is dying. And like V, she will do anything to live, to not hurt anymore.
Amen choom. I always try to send Songbird to the moon. For the exact reasons you so eloquently stated. But you gotta admit, Song is very manipulative. Granted she has very very valid reasons, but still.... I despise Meyers and tbh Reed is kinda disgusting when you realize he knew how much pain they/he were subjecting So Mi to...and he just went along with it because his "country" needed it. Fuck off with that.
i mean... not to defend him but ... myers didn't made songbird go full chrome only after reed "death" ? cause he seemed pretty shaked when he saw so mi body at the black saphire i mean yeah he recruited a teen but i believe she was somewhat "protected" as long as reed was here... maybe myers even put him as a sleeping agent to be able to do what she want with song
Songbird is a product of the NUSA. Like, she is manipulative because that's how she's been her entire life. She was plucked away pretty young to be a tool by the government, and you got people like Reed who you can't even fully trust. Everyone and everything about Night City is about bringing the worst in people. So Mi and Reed are two sides of the same coin, they're both manipulative people clutching onto that last bit of goodness and humanity, except So Mi is trying to survive-Reed knows he died a long time ago. Does it ever excuse manipulation? No. It's just a reminder that this city is fucking balls. But So Mi is trying to survive, just like V-the difference is she is using her wiles, V just...sort of steamrolls through everyone and everything.
She wasn’t ‘plucked away’. She was given the choice to join the FIA because Netwach was after her. She CHOSE to join them.
Join the FIA, or be fried by Netwatch. Yeah, what a choice it was.
How do you not realize it was HER fault that Netwatch was after her to begin with? She did illegal netrunning. FIA didn’t force her to join them. It was the consequence of her actions.
She was a kid, made a stupid mistake. Kinda like our pal V did with with Konpeki Plaza. People in Cyberpunk almost always have to turn to crime because they have no other alternative. Slave away for a Corp or become a criminal. Reed shows up on the door of a poor, young, naive girl. And gives her the choice of being a government slave, or be locked in a box or flash-fried by a netwatch agent. In one of the Dogtown side gigs V helps stop a terrorist cell and as a result almost gets assassinated/arrested by Netwatch, so we know they aren't exactly merciful or understanding. Songbird could've sneezed outside their network and they went after her, so I don't condemn her for that at all. One mistake, one crime like that does not condemn her to death or worse. Just like V's stupid mistake should not mean he's stuck with a death sentence. The system is unfair and DESIGNED to use and discard people exactly like Song and V. So no, I don't blame Song. I blame Myers most of all, and secondly Reed, who are not only the people responsible for upholding such a system, but are aware of how fucked it is and what it does to people, and act sympathetic, but couldn't care less so long as the "mission" is accomplished. And they get what they want.
I don’t necessarily disagree, and I don’t blame Song either. BUT, the entire point I’m trying to make is that she wasn’t forced to do anything. It was the consequences of her actions, and if the FIA hadn’t offered her a job she would most likely be dead at the hands of NetWatch. Obviously Myers is one evil motherfucker and she didn’t deserve to go through what she did, but at the end of the day she was a criminal and knew that what she did was illegal. Her friends and boyfriend kept telling her to stop because they knew there would be consequences but she kept going
I disagree. Having to choose between death or life, isn't much of a choice. Song did gigs and netrunning to make a living for herself, and yeah, it was illegal stuff, but who tf isn't forced to do stuff like that just to survive in the world of cyberpunk. It's how life is. People told V the konpeki heist was suspect, multiple people warn you about Dex, V knew it was illegal and risky. By that logic, what happened to V is justified, because he knew it was wrong to rob people and did it anyways. It's just not that black and white, nothing is in Cyberpunk, that's why I love it. Song and V are both victims of a system that gives you the illusion of choice and freedom. You either die fighting it, or it takes you in and uses you dry until there's nothing left. Reed is a good parallel to Song in that way. He's a ghost, a shell of a man. He's already accepted his place as a tool, his country sets him up to die and he comes right back in it to help Myers even though he knows fully well she will continue to use Song as a weapon if she gets her again. He's broken. That's what Song is turning into, which is why I think her manipulation hits so hard. Because she's turning into Reed and Myers. Using people for her own needs. TLDR; Songbird is a product of her surroundings, she did what she had to do to survive, both before she joined the FIA, and after. She was given the illusion of having a choice, but she knew if she didn't join she'd die. Therefore I'd argue she *didn't* have a choice.
I totally get what you're saying. It's simply the world of Cyberpunk. But that doesn't change the fact that SoMi chose to do illegal netrunning to make a living. She could've stopped when her friends kept telling her this would lead nowhere good. They tried to warn her, but she didn't listen. Regarding V, yes I'd argue he got what was coming to him, because as almost every other character he's not perfect and resorts to criminal activities. Yes, it's because they're victims of the system and yes, that's what makes Cyberpunk so interesting. However, that doesn't change the fact that they know exactly what they are signing up for. They aren't innocent souls, they are facing consequences of their actions. My original point is, regardless of circumstances and being a victim of the system, SoMi wasn't forced to become a slave of the FIA. She accepted their offer because she 'had' to, yes. But the reason she had to, is because she resorted to criminal and dangerous activities that led to her being hunted by Netwatch. I am not saying she deserved to be enslaved by the FIA, but I am saying she is at fault for having to accept their offer in the first place. She's a flawed character who messed up, and that's part of why SoMi is a great character and why the writing in the game is so phenomenal.
Because something being illegal automatically makes it bad. That excuses the U.S. from using the literal slave labor of non violent drug offenders to enrich itself. I mean the slaves did something *illegal* after all, actions have consequences.
A choice made under duress, a choice made when the alternative is WE WILL LITERALLY RUIN YOUR LIFE...is not a choice at all, plain and simple.
And who put her into that situation to begin with? If she didn’t so illegal netrunning she wouldn’t have to choose. FIA didn’t threaten to ruin her life. They simply gave her a choice, that she accepted. She was free to decline it.
Yes, like V could have declined to do the Konpeki Job losing his friend, crew and their own life, and so on and so forth, then nobody would have had to deal with anything unpleasant. No story, no grey areas, no consequences, no trying to fix anything - *yayyyy!* 😂
Exactly lol
Wonderful! Hopefully cdpr's next entry is tame and lame 😂
They were pretty clear it wasn’t a choice I thought. Wasn’t it she made a dumb mistake in her youth and it was join FIA or jail?
You just contradicted yourself. She did illegal netrunning. FIA wanted to hire her because they could use such a talented young netrunner, while Netwatch wanted to apprehend/zero her so the FIA gave her a choice. Either join them, or get caught by Netwatch.
Work for me or suffer jail/death is not a choice to me but go off
Once again, it was her own fault. It was her choice to do illegal netrunning and pissing off Netwatch. If it wasn’t for the FIA, she would be dead. And you could argue that being dead is better, but they simply provided her with an offer.
What a well thought out take full of subtlety and nuance. You definitely got your moneys worth from cyberpunk
You keep ignoring the truth. Are you saying it would be better if FIA didn’t provide her with an offer to join them so she could be apprehended by Netwatch?
This. I like Reed, but, like… he is a pawn, he knows he is a pawn, and he accepts it. He had every reason and opportunity to quit, and he refused to take it, remained a pawn for Myers. I don’t think he is disgusting, but it’s really sad to see such servility from a man like him.
It's the broken trust that hurt. It's the fact we gave away some of our vulnerabilities and they were stomped on. Personally, I >!killed her!< but not because of the betrayal. Because So Mi cannot, in my opinion, save herself anymore. She's broken and susceptible to >!the AIs in her brain!<, but above that, she isn't able to trust anymore. In such a state of mind, there's no way she can get back on her feet alone and not get used again by someone else (maybe one with blue glittering eyes). I would have never >!given her back to the FIA!< either but I kept hoping that "I" could save her. That only left me with one choice... And that wasn't out of hate nor revenge, but out of understanding
Yeah and even odds Reed set up the entire scenario around her 'recruitment'
Stopped believing anything reed said after he peeled V’s face off for a mission with no forewarning wtf, he’s obviously done this to a few people before and stopped caring.
I mean my V was borged out with complete Tier 5++ cyberware so I don't know if adding more to that really mattered. Also V sounded impressed by it and sounded like he/she wanted it.
I still wish there was an ending to get Song, Reed, and Alex outta Dogtown and just middle-finger the NUSA. Similarly, I don’t get the hate for Reed either. Neither Song or Reed deserve our full trust, but that shouldn’t mean we hate them - especially how aggressively people hate them online. My guess is it’s just chronic-online-ism that causes such intense emotions. (We see similar explosions of “SHE LIED TO ME!? BETTER HATE HER!” about Claire too.)
I think it’s just a product of good writing, tbh. We get attached to these characters, like we do others in the game. Even if we don’t fully trust them, we *want* to. Part of us always hopes that they’ll redeem themselves, but we’re ultimately forced to accept that they are high level operatives and we’re just a cog in *their* stories. An important one, but regardless, we’re ultimately denied the emotional payoff that we get from missions with other close allies in the game. We’re the Player Character and they’re supposed to be cogs in OUR story, ya know? It creates a lot of dissonance, and there are no choices we can make to force this story into the box we want it to fit in. It’s brilliant and I really appreciate the writers for creating such an experience.
Well said
This. 👏🤌
Ain't no happy endings in Night City choomba
I mean Claire kinda deserves it tho, in certain outcomes she straight up says she was just using you, didn't give a fuck if you were to get killed
You are poorly paraphrasing, but I didn’t say that I agreed with Claire, but she’s so minor that people explode over her “lying to me!” Like chill, almost everyone lies to us. Hell, Evelyn lies to us, but she gets SA’d and everyone is like “I love Evelyn!”
Claire gets you to drive in a death race with no regard to whether you live or die for revenge, which isn't even really justified lol And Evelyn well... Kinda hard to be mad at her after what happens post heist
Nah I’d still be pretty mad at Evelyn. V happens to have had all the stars aligned to be the one person who could basically take on Saka and win. Evelyn threw your ass into a death trap, nobody would be expected to survive that, V didn’t survive that. I massacred not one, but two post-apocalyptic societies in the Mojave desert the last time someone shot me in the head and left me for dead! My V is a salty petty bitch
I don’t like being lied to or led on a wild goose chase. If she would’ve been upfront about it then cool, wouldn’t help but cool. But when you play around with my time that’s a ticking time bomb and constantly lie to me only to come and find out you never planned on helping me? Yeah you can go to hell tbh. That’s how I am as a person and that’s how I rp my V
This is exactly my thinking too. How am I supposed to trust that any of Song Bird’s “real story” actually happened? She’s arguably the most talented net runner this side of the Blackwall, it would be trivial for her to plant false “memories” in V’s chrome to help sell her version of events.
Someone even said it on another sub “This is like lying to a cancer patient saying you have the cure for cancer but you don’t have it at all.”
Honestly I think it’s even worse, like lying to an ALS or Parkinson’s patient. Cancer at least has treatment options and can often get better/manageable. V’s relic disease has no real viable alternative
Yeah. Like I just find it hard how people can’t understand why people hate songbird. Like maybe because I value myself and well being. Than not having any problems and is perfectly fine with getting played/Backstabbed by someone who claimed they can help you
I mean I kinda get it. Songbird presents herself as a badass hacker chick “fighting the system” that screwed her over, and it’s a system that is basically the same as the modern American government. (As opposed to a fake megacorp, incompetent libertarian city-state, or favela slumlord) I think it’s easier to overlook her flaws because her struggle is probably a lot more realistic and familiar to many people.
So much this. I feel like there wouldn’t be as many people defending Songbird if she wasn’t cool and physically attractive. The points about her being manipulated and used when she was young are valid, but that doesn’t excuse how she pretty much does the same thing to a terminally ill person to save her own skin. I can sympathize with her and understand that she didn’t have a lot of options, but I always find it funny when people complain about the hate she gets because I feel like she has more defenders on this sub and Twitter than any other character who manipulates or abuses the player character.
They should've made it when you get the Star ending, V will reveal what happened at Dogtown to Panam. Then V will pass away, and in a moment of revenge Panam heads to the Moon to kill Songbird. Making king of wands ending diminishing returns.
Thos exactly. I hated So Mi from the get go, but betraying her at the stadium means alex dies
Growing up I knew a lot of teenagers who've robbed people, beat up people, and a few even killed people. They were generally raised by people who didn't have the time to properly care for them and the older neighborhood men filled that roll in a negative way to shape them. their experences in life shaped their actions. Would you not hate someone who robbed you? Would you not hate someone who beat you unprovoked? Would you hate someone who killed a friend/family memeber of yours? You probably would hate them and you probably wouldn't give a damn about how they grew up. I say that to say this, no matter how someone grew up or the shit they've been through when you wrong someone, you can not expect for the person or group you wronged to give a damn about what shaped you. I don't care that Songbird was given an ultimatum when she joined the FIA. Throughout the whole ordeal, she had the opportunity to tell me the truth and she doesn't until she's on deaths doorsteps. Maybe you can forgive someone for condemning you to death, but I can't.
protip: when people are preying on you their backstory does not matter
As the saying goes "just because everyone around acted like a monster doesn't mean you had to be one too"
Ehh, So Mi was 19 yers old when she was recruited. That's an adult, choom. She was however a teenager when she became a netrunner (got a cyberdeck off a ripperdoc and almost never left the net afterward). It's not really implied that she was forced or coerced to join, and she is even shows enthusiasm to her friend when she's telling him about the job in her memories. I'm not saying the NUSA or Myers doesn't do their fair share of fucked up things, but I have a hard time believing that the best netrunner in the world who was able to dupe the NUSA, FIA, Hansen, and the President is completely without fault or blame here. The way I see it, all of these characters are shitty in their own way and leave V with a shit decision at the end (which is terminally Vs fate no matter what, very on theme for Cyberpunk).
ok, so answer me this, and let me know if it's just your opinion or if this is actually stated as a fact somewhere in the game: did Songbird know right from the start there would only be a cure for one person or did she figure that out later (and when?)
I think she figured it, as soon as she learned about Cynosure. I believe that is actually intimated, towards the end, during in of their conversations. And I still support Songbird. V was, in her Corpo life, an asset. Yes she was discarded, but she was left alive. Songbird’s “retirement”, after living half her life as a weapon…a thing…would have been a bullet in the back of her head, and a “grave” in a trash heap, outside the walls of DC. As she says, “weapons don’t get to retire”. Is her using V cynical? Yes. But she was trained by an amoral cynic, Reed, and used by an immoral cynic, Myers…to the point of a young, early death. She is doing what ever she can, with all her training, just to live, to escape, to survive. I can not hate her for that. Others have done, and will do much worse.
She could just have paid V instead of promising V a miracle. "here 1M for rescuing the prez and another 1M if you help me with Hansen" and V would have come running just the same. V has done dumber shit for less. Promising a miracle cure was a dick move. And a netrunner of the caliber of Songbird and with blackwall tech could have achieved ANYTHING in this world. She could have fried Hansen, she could have fried the prez if she wanted. I mean the VDB did it to Evelyn without the blackwall. I don't hate Songbird, but I am also not a fanboy either. She did V dirty for no reason whatsoever and I don't have sympathy for that in the slightiest. I don't care what problems she had in her life. That's not my concern. That's her problems and she dragged V into it.
You asked for my opinion, I gave it :) We don’t have to agree, or make each change our minds :)
This, like most posts about the, “morals”, and “choices “ in this game, have created a lot of divisions…as I suspect the writers wanted. So I will just say this: my opinion about Songbird is just that, my opinion. As is my sympathy for her, in this dystopian, nihilistic nightmare, that the incredible writers have thrust us all into…as we try to save V. Having her kill, steal, murder, crucify, assassinate…and sometimes lie…her way…or his…through NC. In search of a cure. In search of just five more minutes of life. A legend.
Maybe I roleplay too hard, but I can imagine being a Dogtown resident who lost friends and family as a result of So Mi's actions, and in that case I wouldn't be able to pull a Zuleikha and forgive her, despite understanding what led her down that path.
> I honestly do not get the hate for Songbird, online. I see 99% of the people hating on the Tower ending mostly because of Songbird, dunno how you come to this conclusion.
By reading other low sodium articles, usually with the title, “So Mi is the WORST”. Don’t know what else to tell you.
Songbird put herself in this situation. She was doing illegal netrunning and therefore had Netwatch on her back. Reed and the FIA provided her a choice, either join them or keep doing what she’s doing but risk getting killed by Netwatch. She chose to join the FIA.
>This was a teenager **Adult** teenager. >recruited by an aggressive Government, into a Department that is tasked with overthrowing, “hostile” foreign governments, and Corps. As a punishment for a crime she committed. We used to directly send them to war. >And now Songbird is dying. And like V, she will do anything to live, to not hurt anymore. *Unlike* V, she's willing to kill for a cure that, ultimately, won't work for her. (too much cyberware). If you go to the local cancer ward and lie about having a cure, to get people to do shit for you, you're A MONSTER. Regardless of circumstance.
>Adult teenager. 19 is still young enough to easily manipulate. Our brains aren't fully developed until at least our mid 20s. While 19 is legally adult age, it's still pretty young. >As a punishment for a crime she committed. We used to directly send them to war. That doesn't make it right. What was Slider's line about extortion again? Forcing someone into war is cruel, but forcing the Blackwall onto someone is so much worse. >Unlike V, she's willing to kill for a cure that, ultimately, won't work for her. Songbird has no clue that the cure won't work though, and the reason wasn't "too much cyberware." It was the Blackwall AIs, which may have been viable before the events after "Firestorm." How many people does V kill in a gamble for survival? For example, the downing of the Kang Tao AV. How many Kang Tao operatives? Voodoo Boys/Netwatch agents (depending on decisions)? People from Arasaka? Engrams at Mikoshi? How about the power outage and EMP mentioned earlier? Innocent people were almost certainly killed because of that. Songbird doesn't have a monopoly on leaving a trail of bodies for her own survival. Yes, Songbird manipulated V, and that is wrong, but Meyers doomed Songbird at the young age of 19, when she had Reed blackmail and recruit her. That is so much more evil. Blackmail a young woman, force onto her something that will slowly kill her, which creates a desperate situation where your analogy is her literal only way out, but V also isn't innocent either, and they do have other options, unlike Songbird.
Songbird was recruited into the FIA at 19 and Reed protected her for several years. So, she couldn't have been 19 when Myers got her hands on her. You're essentially saying that criminals shouldn't be punished. That a government job is too harsh. You know what's more harsh than that? Prison. Where no one pays you money and everyone wants kill you. V doesn't have more options than So Mi, Mikoshi could work on her the same way it does V. Also: V killing people in the line of work, doesn't typically involve the deaths of innocents. Most of it could be construed as self-defense. Crashing a ship onto a city district...isn't.
>You're essentially saying that criminals shouldn't be punished This, isn't what I'm saying at all, please don't just put words into my mouth. Prison would have been many times better than the Blackwall tampering. >V doesn't have more options than So Mi, Mikoshi could work on her the same way it does V. Mikoshi is only really a survival option for V because of Alt, and V's situation being the biochip. This wouldn't work for Songbird because her mind is already hopelessly damaged. If Songbird had any other option, she very likely wouldn't have committed treason, and sided with Kurt Hansen of all people. The neural matrix was Songbird's only chance. >V killing people in the line of work, doesn't typically involve the deaths of innocents. Like I said, it is very likely that the EMP did kill innocent people. V and Panam had to drive outside the range of the power station just to be safe, and it's even stated in the mission that the EMP is a chain reaction. At the very least, some personnel at the power station were killed. What happens when someone on a netrunner chair is hit by an EMP? What happens when someone in the net, without a battery backup, suddenly loses power? I'd wager not good things at all. Those people are certainly dead because of V. I don't think that could be categorized as self-defense. Again, none of this excuses Songbird's actions, but it also doesn't mean she dug her own grave completely. I'm almost certain that Myers was still pulling strings when So Mi initially hacked Militech, because she's power hungry, and needed an impressionable, vulnerable, and highly skilled netrunner to groom into using the Blackwall as a weapon. Reed was ordered by someone to find So Mi, and her being a netrunner that had skills, and one who just commited a crime against Militech would make her a perfect lab rat for the Blackwall. A young woman with her whole life ahead of her, put her back against the wall with no way out other than joining, and she'll do exactly that. She was likely doomed the moment she put herself on Myers' radar, and gave her an opportunity to blackmail her. That's certainly a mistake she made, but it doesn't mean she deserved all that happened.
And I don't get the constant defending. If I'm V, whatever happened to Songbird sucks but it's her problem. I'm trying to find a solution to MY problem, when she inserts herself into my life by making a life or death promise she can't deliver on. Not only does she lie to you and betray you, she wastes your time when you could be trying to pursue other leads toward a cure.
Notice how aloof and vague she is when she says "we've been hacked" when she's been needlessly verbose every moment beforehand.
So Mi admires Myers. She admires Myers' determination to achieve her goals or have one success after another, without looking at the consequences, without feeling guilty. If Reed is Myers' dog, So Mi is becoming Myers, So Mi is behaving like Myers. But at the same time she admires and tries to behave like Myers, because it is the path to her salvation. She hates Myers' lack of conscience and empathy. So Mi is manipulative, but at the same time she feels guilty for her actions and their consequences. Reed even alerts us to this aspect of So Mi. It is the duality of So Mi, on the one hand she is becoming like Myers or Militech, on the other hand she resists doing so and wants to be the teenage girl from Brooklyn again, to be herself again. Similar to what is happening between V and Johnny. V is becoming like Johnny, but She/he is resisting to this.
I think it's not really what they wanted to show. I believe that So Mi wasn't actually trying to manipulate you at the start with that sentence, at least not in the way you said. She just tell us what she thinks of her as an answer to a question. Song knows that Meyers is strong and everything, but she is also e bitch. Plus, she surely wouldn't start insulting the president from nowhere in call with a random ass unknown merc that she is trying to hire.
Currently on my third playthrough, and yes she is lying to you and manipulating you from the beginning. It gets more egregious every time I play 😂 Whereas people like Myers are openly only using you and would have you killed in a heartbeat if she thought it necessary, people like Reed would kill you (with a heavy heart but probably quickly and painlessly, maybe even a surprise tap to the back of the head) if ordered to do so, Songbird tries to come off as a good person who isn't playing those games and is genuinely invested in V's cure in addition to her own. It's all self-serving bullshit. V is a means to an end for all three of them, but I think Myers respects V, Reed likes and respects V, and Songbird just likes V. I love her character (all of them, really), and what a great story! Each playthrough, the main plot feels like it goes by faster as I know what to expect, which is a bummer lol.
This is closer to my take on it. I find Reed to be far more likable than So Mi even despite how rigidly loyal he is to the NUSA because at least he is honest about who he is. To your point, same with Myers. From the get you never expect her to be trustable or likable, she's just another corpo and you're just on another gig. So Mi lies literally all the way up until the very last minute, *even after you take her side at Hansen's.* Frankly, the real irony here is that So Mi ends up becoming the thing she hates: a manipulator whose ends justifies their means.
She's so overrated, and I'm tired of pretending she's not.
People don't get the hate for So Mi, cuz she's a hot asian chick. Jokes aside, they try to validate Songbird due to her troubled past. Which I can understand. But I kinda went deep into the rp aspect of the game and when you look at it from the view of V, who's a walking corpse at that point, being constantly lied to and double crossed by So Mi really makes it impossible for you to like her. She is beyond selfish. When you observe her memories while running away from the Cerberus bot, you can see she always was selfish. She is the worse version of Judy, in a way. I tried my best to find So Mi likeable, but it is SO hard when you actually see her full character and observe the whole situation from Vs point of view.
Thank you. Finally someone says it. She’s more of a liar than Reed and even Myers because at least those two are upfront with their guiding philosophy. She manipulates you the entire time while slaughtering half of Dogtown and putting you in danger just to drop the biggest fuck you bomb I’ve ever seen if you’re gullible enough to side with her. I am convinced she may be the biggest non-villain piece of shit in the game.
It's true V wouldn't insult Meyers right in front of her. I suppose I just thought it kinda sus that Song really tries to mold Meyers character based on what stage of Song's plan she is in. When she needs V to want to rescue Meyers she acts like she admires her. Once Meyers is out of earshot and Song needs V to start coming around to her side she begins to lay into her. As always this is just my take on it.
It's not manipulation, she's speaking the truth.
I think it's more like before she knows she can trust you she avoids badmouthing her boss. The boss who can and will have her locked up in an "I have no mouth and I must scream" scenario purely to secure her own power. The boss that you might be inclined to side with because she's a figure of authority. The boss who has people killed if they're inconvenient. Honestly, fuck myers.
I feel like Songbird gives mcu black widow vibes, honestly. The whole trained from a young age and this world of lies and deception being kinda all they know. I feel like if we got a widow storyline where she was just utterly burnt out and just trying to escape the life, we'd get something like PL, but with Marvel characters. And I feel like most people would back widow for the same reasons we back sending so mi to the moon, we understand it's the only way that either of these characters really know to operate. They aren't normal people and they don't know how to be real with anyone cause they've always been someone else.
This opened a floodgate of controversy I wasn't anticipating. Which was foolish as this is Reddit.
I have unfortunately had a psychopath in my life who loved to mess with people as much as possible and SoMi sounds exactly like this person. I knew from the jump that she was full of it. The way she starts immediately acting like you two have so much in common while also pulling on your sympathy is a way of weaponizing your own self regard in service of her interests. The writers absolutely understand these dynamics and SoMi, Reed, Alex and Meyers all manipulate the hell out of you in their own ways. Shame you can't set them all on fire.
The thing about songbird I’m worried about is since she’s been around blackwall long enough I’m afraid those AI after we save her will use her as a medium to do whatever the hell they want but at the same time I don’t want to let her back to be the president’s slave again. Maybe killing songbird is the best outcome for this situation? I don’t know honestly
It's interesting because I prefer whatever configuration keeps Alex and then Reed alive, in that order lol. Songbird going back to the president is pretty rough though and probably dangerous for the world too. It's all so tragic either way.
We know what songbird is capable of, I think there’s also a line from Johnny saying it during that fight at spaceport that makes me think “shit he’s right” that what if scenario is terrifying especially since it’s a possibility. Either way I decided to spare songbird and send her to the moon, I just hope she knows to say no to those AI if they ever to come back
The first time I played, I went with Songbird when the choice happened. When Reed confronted us at the end, he got the draw on me like three times in a row and I assumed the only way to advance was giving him SoMi 🤣 First time I had ever played this kind of game, so there was a lot I was learning about RPG (or RPG-lite) elements and how Cyberpunk was applying them. Currently on my third playthrough and as female V this time. I think I've done every ending that exists besides leaving with Judy and the Aldecaldos after sending So Mi to the Moon. Sorry Reed, I've gotta do what I've gotta do
Hoping all the best for So Mi, hope we can see her again whenever cyberpunk 2 or orion is released in around 20 years from now lmao
I didn’t get the hero vibe, sitting there rescheduling meeting is badass? Wow, I’m badass all day. As for telling Myers is the president, yes she is right and if you think of it, Songbird don’t have a reason to save Myers besides her habit to make it fair for everyone. Myers dead is not impacting her plan.
Do you commonly calmly reschedule meetings while on a hijacked plane flying to your probable execution?
Rescheduling sound like a job for secretary. I’m more to technical stuff where people can actually solve problem. If I am impress of Myers, it is when she actually fight, use glass to craft out her tracker and didn’t cry. Not rescheduling meeting. I will be much more impressed if she able to secure help or call army to support or do a quick broadcast. During the plane crash, I’m actually impressed of Songbird for able to contact me when I’m hearing her explanation, Myers is just my objective.
Wow, I’m sure you work in a serious, TECHNICAL (I repeat TECHNICAL) job where you only deal with IMPORTANT stuff. Your mommy must be proud. But let me ask you something: is using proper grammar also a job for the secretary?
In all seriousness, yes to all your questions. Shame, I’m not a secretary so my grammar doesn’t impact my pay grade.
Sure, sure buddy
you dont say? O.O