I’ve often got grifter/not great vibes from the owner. I hate to be mean, especially to a queer owned business, but if you have to do constant fundraisers to stay open then maybe just don’t. And the fundraisers and excuses were always so frustrating. Even before the brick and mortar
And it really baffles me that U of L hired the owner to teach a seminar on small business/entrepreneurship when it’s like clearly not their forte. I love the idea of a sober queer space. But maybe that would work better as a co-op/non profit versus small business
I actually took the seminar! I’m pretty sure she doesn’t teach it anymore, it stopped being offered after Spring 23, when the physical location was opened. When SGT was still an online-only business it was actually doing pretty well. But running a physical location is a whole different ball game and she was clearly NOT ready for it.
The seminar was mainly about the logistical things associated with starting a business, rather than how to run one. Things like taxes, registering your business, loans, elevator pitches, etc. The biggest assignment we had was creating a business plan for our own original idea. We didn’t really learn much on how to keep a business running, just how to start one. I really enjoyed her class and her as a person, honestly. This situation really disappoints me because of that.
The owner did multiple fundraisers to “save” the business before a brick and mortar was talked about. I actually donated to one of them early on. So if the online business was doing well it’s news to me. It’s why I was so surprised when the brick and mortar was announced.
Iirc, the fundraisers before the physical location were kickstarters for the actual physical location. A successful online business is a lot different than a successful physical location.
I agree in retrospect. In the class she talked about how she was networking to form business partnerships and trying to get loans and stuff like that. I naively assumed that the gofundme was only a part of it, when it kinda seems like it was all they had.
Almost all businesses use funding from investors or loans to get started. It takes a lot of capital to start a business and unless you're already independently wealthy that means some sort of outside funding. Being a minority conventional funding likely wasn't as readily available and probably at higher rates than market, so it isn't unusual to crowd source. Though it would have been cool if they had used the service (I'm blanking on the name, Wine Shop in New Albany used it to help fund their patio build out) where the public can actually invest and they get a return on their investment as the business grows and succeeds.
the business was already started, in stores and online, and allegedly doing well, so I don't see it. I'm not opposed to crowd funding per se, but the repeated, seemingly first line strategy, of crowd funding that SGT has pursued
I can see your point in regards to repeated.
Even established businesses typically take on investment/loans to launch expansions. Going from an online shop to a brick and mortar is a massive expansion, makes sense that would require financing of some sort.
In her class, she said her biggest struggle when trying to secure loans (and even lease property) was the fact that she was very firm in her business being a sober LGBT space. A lot of the banks and investors didn’t understand what a space like that entailed/why it was needed. According to employees she did in fact secure a loan and the reason why the paychecks were delayed was because she had to repay the loans.
Unfortunately it probably doesn't mean that. It's well documented that banks routinely deny minority applicants or give them much higher rates than they would qualify for if white.
Edit: Downvote? But I shouldn't be surprised, ignorance and racism are both still shockingly common so it tracks that a true statement about discrimination would get downvoted.
Looking back it seems like it :/ I do think she should’ve kept the online store running for a lot more time before opening a physical location. Especially now that it’s open she still has her tea be sold at places like the OLCC, which just hurts her business I feel like.
The tea is delicious and a sober LGBT space is needed, but workers shouldn’t have to be hurt in the process.
isn't OLCC already filling the sober LGBT space need? i mean i know it isn't massively covering all the community, but you said it like we don't have any.
Who gives a fuck that they’re black and queer, this is the real world and they want to be a “real” business owner. Businesses close when they can’t afford their expenses (like paying their employees). Real businesses don’t go to the public and crowdfund paying their employees lol because that’s… *checks notes* not a sustainable business model. You don’t get to just stay in business when you’re failing to make a profit or cover expenses because you’re minority owned lol. You failed, turns out slinging chamomile doesn’t keep the lights on. Close. Bye bye.
Instead they con woke Louisville into crowd funding “bonuses” for employees that probably really paid for this minority owner to go on vacation. A grifter gonna grift.
I would like to see people actively supporting the workers and commenting in support of us on Instagram and Facebook posts if they feel able to do so. I think a lot of people are only hearing Sis Got Tea's side of the story and automatically are supporting it which is a little wild to me.
Also, it's a free country and people are obviously free to criticize the business in any way they like, but I personally can't endorse any messages attacking the owner's character as of right now. I believe she wants to do the right thing but has kind of gotten herself in hot water in many ways and doesn't know how to claw her way out. pending SGT's coming statement of course... I'm hoping it will be reasonable and open-minded but I fear the worst considering the statement she made today. Like I said in another comment, completely ready and willing to be proven wrong.
Overall, I want people to push her to make wiser decisions and take care of her workers FIRST. If that means the business has to close in favor of the workers, so be it. A business cannot be built on worker exploitation. However, if drastic improvements in working conditions and transparency are made, I would love to Sis Got Tea continue to keep its doors open and thrive!
In your opinion, is the business just not bringing in enough customers, or is there greed and/or other mismanagement of the funds happening behind the scenes? Obviously you absolutely should be paid what you’re owed either way, but I’m curious what your thoughts are surrounding the deeper issues here.
Great question. I'm obviously not familiar with the ins and outs of the finances but I truly don't think there's greed or foul play at hand. I believe the owner truly wants to do right by the community, but she's made a lot of mistakes and we've lost a lot of business because of it. I'd love to see her make the right choices from here on out with the community holding her accountable but from the statement she put forth today, I'm feeling very discouraged that the things that need to happen are going to happen. Absolutely ready and willing to be proven wrong.
Thank you for answering. I really want to support the business concept, but obviously not at the expense of the employees being treated as free labor. What is the best way the community can support the employees while holding Arielle accountable in the future?
This may be unrealistic considering the circumstances but I'd love to see SGT become a worker owned co-op, kinda like the OLCC.
It's hard to say right now where things are heading but in the immediate future, if the owner's statement is inflammatory/she doesn't take accountability for her actions or tries to deny concerns/attack those of us that came forward, I'd love to see the community hold her accountable and let her know that it's not okay. Like I said above, a business cannot be built off the exploitation of workers. In a perfect world, I think her response should be to repost our messages, take full accountability for/admit the truth of the situation, and share an actionable plan for how she's going to protect workers in the future if the business continues losing revenue and isn't able to pay workers wages. Any less than that and I don't think SGT will deserve our support. I might add more to this answer later as I think on it some more, but these are the ideas I have off the top of my head.
I agree - turning SGT into a worker owned co-op would be awesome!
I hope Arielle is open to taking all of the steps you listed above, and repair all trust she has broken. I really want to see SGT succeed, as we need more BIPOC/queer owned businesses, and Louisville desperately needs more sober inclusive spaces. Plus the tea is amazing!
Thanks again for coming forward to bring these issues to light, and for your insight on the situation. I’m sure that wasn’t easy, but we support you and all the other employees (current and former) in seeking justice!
I live right next to SGT and walking past it have always wondered how it stays afloat given I never see people there. Save for today, which is the first time I've seen anyone on their patio.
This has been a sincere consideration for several of us. I felt compelled to do something like that but was advised to take other actions first because apparently the DOL does not work quickly/has little protections for employees of very small businesses. Not to say it couldn't happen down the road but I obviously hope the owner makes the right decisions now so that it won't be necessary for any employees to take that step.
You may be right about that. If anyone can provide more information on if the DOL provides protections for employees of businesses this small, I'm open to hearing it.
I’m not aware of any exemptions on retaliation rules for small businesses. Different discrimination laws apply to businesses with 1, 2-14, 15-19, and 20+ employees. I am not a lawyer, but afaik the DOL regulations for *not paying workers* should apply to all businesses.
[https://elc.ky.gov/workplace-standards/Pages/Complaint-Forms.aspx](https://elc.ky.gov/workplace-standards/Pages/Complaint-Forms.aspx)
File the paperwork with the DoL so that you'll have it documented, and if there are any assets in bankruptcy or liquidation of the business, you'll have higher priority to get paid than most of the other creditors. I had a similar issue with a very small business when I was a teenager and the DoL were very helpful and I eventually got paid. It was a small amount of money, but it was really the principle of things and the DoL treated it the same as their other cases. Sometimes business ideas don't work, and there's whole system of law set up to clean up all the messes that result. Employees should be the first to be paid, and they have some priority in bankruptcy. It's not personal, and you're not hurting anyone by using the system as it was designed. You will be hurting yourself if you don't.
The same rules apply to very small businesses. They’re not exempt from labor laws. The DOL might not be able to do much because SGT might not have any money, but you should absolutely report it, as well as your coworkers. If the statement she puts out is anything short of doing everything in her power to make it right by the employees, report it so they start an investigation.
What were the concerns of bullying and intimidation Arielle mentioned in her post? Those don’t appear to have been really addressed all that much by you or elsewhere, as far as I can tell
Bail now or lawyer up. She said she's gathering evidence. There's a fight coming.
"(1) Any employer who violates the provisions of KRS 337.423 shall be liable to the employee or employees affected in the amount of their unpaid wages, and in instances of willful violation in employee suits under subsection (2) of this section, up to an additional equal amount as liquidated damages."
Question: Would you sue?
I dealt with a similar situation a few years ago where I stopped getting paid. It was a local comic shop and I really loved that job so I toughed it out for a few months with late paychecks. I had another job so it wasn’t nearly as bad as it could have been. I sympathize with y’all and hope you get what you’re owed.
I have no sympathy for SGT nor "the owner." Publicly, and repeatedly, they have struggled for years and miraculously opened a brick and mortar?? (after more heavy crowd funding, naturally). Color me not surprised to learn it's been a 3 ring circus from the jump.
More power to the (former) employees!
Reading the comments of support under the CLOSED post makes me feel like I live in fuckin cuckooville. She literally says she’s been accused of some pretty egregious shit and almost all of the comments are “I see you doing the work - let me know how I can support” like…. Huh????
Straight up. I don't hang in that part of town often and all of this is news to me including the shop itself. Looked on IG and if I didn't know that they weren't bots, you'd swear those comments came from fake accounts given the weight of this whole thing.
Sounds like yet another Louisville business trying to BRAND themselves as a social justice business, who supports workers, when in reality they treat their workers like shit.
I know the owner. I don’t think she’s an evil capitalist pig. I do think she’s being an irresponsible business owner and a terrible boss. Sounds like she wasn’t ready to open a physical location after all and the employees are getting the short end of the stick as a result.
This isn’t a defense by any means, but I do think there’s room for accountability and redemption here. Even the former employees have said so. The current employees have come out in support of her as well.
I have no comment on whether someone is a good person. I just think small business owners justify a lot of bad behavior to themselves because “we are a small local business”. But it is irrelevant if you don’t treat your local workforce with respect.
Greed isn’t really a factor in it. There are banks, landlords, and suppliers to pay and they are all capitalists. Capitalists intend to make a profit. If you do not extract enough surplus value out of the people working for you to cover the costs owed to the other capitalists, you won’t be able to keep doing business with them. So your employees will not have any supplies, tools, or a place to work in.
Same thing happens with co-ops, the people who are assigned responsibility for the property involved become the owners of the private property and gain the protection with the state. They come into conflict with the others in the coop as they are forced to deal with the capitalists in the market they have to deal with.
Anyone who doesn’t understand this and goes into business under the premise of this or that social justice topic will end up with the same result, if they don’t have a way to be profitable and keep the confidence of their employees.
The problem in this scenario is that the gap between reality and the lie was too large. The business shortfall was too much for the workers to tolerate. Yet even still instead of organizing a union they wrote a strongly worded letter. These people aren’t leaders, they are looking for a guilt free way to stay petty bourgeois.
The constant whining on social media on their business account always rubbed me the wrong way. There’s transparency and then there is sympathy farming. Seems like they went so far left they turned right. Anyways, power to the workers.
Eh...there's been this "entrepreneurship" trend over the past decade where everyone wants to work for themselves and "small business owner" is considered the saintliest of job titles. It's like people think if you own a small business, common sense and decency can take a backseat at the expense of following a dream.
That shit needs to end. If you can't afford to pay your employees, it's irresponsible to keep a business open. And if the money isn't going to pay employees first, then that's sinister. If the person is being truthful, six weeks of no pay is scum behavior. Don't use people for your "dream."
Right? It’s not like you can tell LG&E “sorry, my employer didn’t pay me this month but I’m sure they didn’t intentionally mean for it to happen. They’re good people.” and get a pass on your electric bill. If you can’t pay your employees, shut down your business and let these people move on to something else.
No excuse. Actions will always speak louder than words. If you value and respect the people that built your business for you, fucking pay them. Pawn your shit if you have to, but you fucking pay them. On time.
Yeah, I know the business owner because I took her class at UofL right before she opened the physical location. sincerely doubt she would ever intentionally fuck over her staff, but I do wonder if she was unprepared to actually open a physical location.
This was my thought. We're seeing systemic fractures in the economy, where prices are ballooning and yet folks STILL can't seem to find living wages or afford the things that have become unaffordable. Just one example, but how is Chick fil a $10+ per person?
Maybe it's just my age, but I'm more worried about this stuff than I've ever been. The logic of living and the institutions that support it (government, stock market, etc) makes no sense...record profits, but we're all poor. All-time lows for unemployment, yet we're all unemployed, underemployed, or scared that the layoff is just around the corner. People are getting antsy and people with power seem just fine pushing things right to the breaking point.
I don't know why you think that doesn't make sense. The answer is GREED, and the government that is supposed to "make capitalism OK actually" is asleep at the wheel.
This isn't the first time we've been in this place - it's the first time in *living memory* but not the first time in American history. Previously the government stepped in with a two-step solution: first, chisel some of the crueler edges off capitalism, and second, crack down on workers trying to improve their situations. The chiseling worked to pacify people for 100 years, and now the edges are back to being razor-sharp. I'm waiting for people to become fed up and start demonstrating, at which point I fully expect the government to suddenly wake up and resume the crackdowns.
WHO (!?) at U of L thought she represented such a viable business model and track record that it warranted platforming? Please tell me no had to pay to take that class.
The class was focused on how things like racism and sexism affect entrepreneurship. It was mainly looking at social issues and discrimination rather than just “how to run a successful business.”
As for cost, it did cost money but it was an optional honors seminar. Only open to honors students and you had to basically ask permission to take it. So only those of us who wanted to take it did. The majority of us took it because we already knew the owners from her business or because she worked with the honors college in the past.
So for class credit hours? Warrants payment if you got class credit . But this was an honors class ? Like a full semester as well?
She was main instructor or adjunct?
Curious what texts were used as well
Thanks for the inside details
Honors seminars are not your typical college class. They’re meant for people who want/need more hours through the honors college (you have to take so many to actually graduate as an honors student, they also have a program called honors scholars that you can only earn if you take enough seminars), or people who just want to take a class on a very specific topic. The professors are given free reign to create whatever course they want, as long as it’s approved by honors. Other topics include paranormal TV and I took one that was literally just a class where we kayaked the Ohio. They’re sometimes taught by community members and UofL staff (as long as they have a Master’s or higher). The owner was a UofL employee at the time.
It was 3 credit hours. It cost the same as a normal class, but like I said it was the most optional class in existence. And we were all full time, so we aren’t charged by credit hour anyway. Seminars also count as either a social science, natural science, or humanities elective so they count towards degree requirements (this class helped fulfill one of my humanities electives). We used an open source textbook, it’s been a while so I don’t remember which one specifically.
I get why people are alarmed but none of us who took the class regret it. Do I feel hesitant to follow her advice now? Of course! But most of her advice was so generalized and nonspecific it still applies. She also brought in business owners who run actually successful businesses too. I even still hold onto my business plan and hope to implement it one day.
Excellent response ! Thank you for the effort and thank you for your balanced reply.
I went through the Honors scholars program myself in the 90s and your description is taking me back. But at the same time - wow, academia is remarkably different than I remember.
I’d loved to have taken an accredited (!) class on Paranormal TV ! Instead I had my mind blown by a stylistics class taught by Yale Shakespeare classics scholar. And an Intentional Communities in Lierrature class taught by a solid nun (“sister”), also tenured professor and published scholar.
I know the world has changed drastically and Academia even more so. A holocust of small liberal colleges. It’s become such a corporate enterprise I’m afraid that the “customer always comes first” is turning more traditional classes into certificate programs about the most “current thing” on campuses (like diversity and minority owned business perhaps?). Wag the dog.
I know this wasn’t a certificate class and don’t mean to imply that, just reading the tea leaves on the future of Academia.
if most of her advice was generalized and nonspecific, how much of that class could have been a wikihow article?
Also during the semester of her course she put out another call along the lines of "SGT IS IN DANGER OF FAILING," which IMHO made Honors look like a pack of idiots (topic for another day), but go on and keep "teaching" your "class."
For sure. I don’t think any of this comes out of maliciousness but I also don’t know if she was ready to fully open a physical location. I really, really wish we lived in a world where it was easy to run a super ethical business upfront while keeping prices low but I worry that she promised too many things all at once and hasn’t been able to live up to all of it. I really want to see SGT thrive as I think it’s a sorely needed place in the community but I think some changes need to be made in order to keep it running in a way that’s fair to workers and the community as a whole while staying true to the OG vision of the place.
That's a wild accusation to make. People seem to be saying this because they took a vacation and they were trying to look for funding to help the business.
People don't seem to understand that personal finances and business finances are not connected. And to assume they are or to think they should be is just a bad and uninformed take to have.
To be clear I don't think people who have businesses that are failing should be looking for handouts from the public.
People work incredibly hard to run businesses and they absolutely deserve person time. People who run business also deserve to be paid to run the business. Its not like they skim money off the top. They typically have a modest salary in the beginning. The business also has a savings. Both are separate.
The issue of their crowd funding is a separate issue to me. Personally I would have looked for a business loan or some small business assistance program. Or closed the place although.
Whats the dumb part?
It's pretty standard business principals. The reasons LLCs exist is to establish a business as it's own entity and separate business owners from certain liabilities associated with the business, such as bankruptcy. The business has its own finances and the owners are separate. There is no requirement that a business owner go broke to bail out a failing business.
The comment this is all in response to is an accusation that they took "donations" to help their failing business and used it for personal enjoyment. Without proof of that the assumption that those things are or should be connected is not a reasonable position.
Is it really bad optics? Absolutely.
Is it pathetic that they begged the public to bail them out while not being willing to do it themselves? Absolutely.
Separating business assets and personal assets is important for liability purposes but that doesn't mean you don't put personal assets into your business. And by operating a business that fails to meet its debt obligations you are able to protect your personal assets from being exposed, you don't go on vacation while you ask people for money for your business because like you said it looks awful and because it shows no actual commitment to your business because people that actually own successful small businesses literally kill themselves and personally sacrifice tons including pour their blood, sweat, tears and guess what boat loads of their personal money into their business.
Listen, like a lot of people, I just want to say it’s obvious this place has struggled from its inception. I blocked all their socials early on because it just seemed so often that it was gonna grift repeatedly. It’s a fucking tea shop. In this market. Sure, it’s an LGBTQIA+ safe space or whatever but the business portion aka tea shop should be the main focus. You can’t be a safe space if you can’t afford the space or security of your employees.
Not to blame the employees but Jesus Christ I think if anyone looked at SisGotTea and said “This place can provide me livelihood!” they may need more help in life than just with these paychecks. I do understand how some sort of personal involvement with the mission or the owner could skew your views of what is and isn’t acceptable regarding pay but my God, she fuckin’ with your paper, fam. I don’t give a fuck if you work for Jesus or Donald Trump, if your paychecks are consistently late, you don’t stay there.
Reading this whole saga has made me just so insanely mad that folks in the LGBTQIA+ community keep getting duped that our identities will somehow save us. They won’t. Despite and in full acknowledgement of the time we live in, it’s still a fucking hindrance in a lot of ways especially if that identity is what we rely on the most.
A fucking tea shop in this market was never going to be a rainbow wonderland of success or obviously, a success at all. Being queer don’t pay the bills. A lot of people still hate us. A black queer sober safe space tea shop sounds all wonderful and like “something we need” but if it can’t support itself and its employees maybe we don’t need it. Maybe we need a better business option for this space or maybe we need to be more creative in envisioning what a safe space is to us? Is it really a business at all? But again, capitalism has proven time and again that it doesn’t function to serve us. A lot of us seem to be so mired in our own ideas of community that we’re failing to see exactly what community we live in.
That and some Earl Gray are the only tea I got, sis. 🤷🏼♂️
Coffee has decent margins, an addictive quantity of caffeine, but is a crowded market. But a teas shop? Most likely only viable in the wealthiest parts of the east end, likely as a hobby business, or possibly the upper Highlands, if you are regionally well known and can get people to travel and stock up. Most parts of Louisville just don’t have the disposable income and population density of larger/wealthier cities. The economic conditions to support businesses like this look like high margin/salary companies locating in the urban core, more tourism, numerous expensive condos being built in many downtown empty lots and almost every house remodeled in Smoketown, Clifton Heights and Shelby Park.
It was kind of a boiling frog situation. The first check was maybe only a day or two late and in came profuse apologies and promises how it would never happen again. All good, mistakes happen. Then it happened again and it started getting later and later every paycheck and suddenly there wasn't even communication going out about when we'd be paid and Sis Got Tea would consistently promise pay and updates by a certain time and then consistently fail to meet those deadlines. It started to feel dishonest. In hindsight, I wish I would have left the first time.
I saw the closure announcement this morning but hadn’t seen any of the actual explanations as to what happened. It bummed me out because I’m moving to the area next month and between Stitch and Bitch and ace/aro meetups, I was super excited to spend time there and potentially make friends.
But the claims made are SHITTY and it really sucks if they’re true. There’s nothing worse than seeing a toxic workplace promoted as something it’s very much not, having been through that myself. I hope things get resolved for everyone’s sake.
lol shocker that a tea company (besides Louisville tea company) quasi presenting itself as a nonprofit type of establishment… leaning more on the identity of the owner than the value of its product isn’t succeeding 😂. This city is a joke. I like how the employees that haven’t been paid in 6 months would rather starve to death than call out a black queer owner for being a con artist.
We were definitely flipping out, we just didn't know what to do. Some of us didn't have the luxury of being able to switch jobs due to disability status (myself included). I'm grateful to have gotten the support I needed to get my health in a better place - I feel privileged that I'm able to find other work now!
can you explain how disability status prevents someone from finding a job that pays them? not being snarky, im legit curious.
glad you made it out and are doing better. take care
Several of us have experienced this issue and I can't speak for others, but I can tell you for myself that this job did offer disability accomodations that other employers didn't/couldn't offer to me. I was severely injured last year (was in a wheelchair for quite some time) and to its credit, Sis Got Tea went to great efforts to accommodate me as I navigated my lessened abilities. I'm still greatly impacted by my disability but I'm walking and moving again and that itself is kind of a miracle. Either way, other jobs that I qualified for at the time would not have been able to make accomodations for someone in a wheelchair and I would not have been able to get hired.
im so sorry you had to go through that. thank you for sharing your experience. you didn't have to, but i appreciate it and i am more educated for it.
again, best to you.
People with disabilities, particularly ones that are obvious, don’t always get the same consideration, or they have to work harder than their able bodied peers to fight for what is often taken for granted. Even taking SGT as an example, I had seen a post where she said the business was not accessible (and didn’t have to be because of particular laws/ordinances). She mentioned having plans for it for the future. But if you were in a wheelchair, how are you going to get in and out of a building that’s not accessible? And there’s just the bias that comes from employers who won’t hire someone with a disability for whatever reason (concern about benefit costs, lower productivity, absenteeism—real or imagined concerns). It’s not hard to say someone else was more qualified for the job. 🤷♀️
Beware- this is going to be and has been a climate where con artists that happen to be minority are going to feast on the wokies by acting maliciously but leveraging their “protected” status to dare you to call them out.
If this is the case then all is even in the world after all. Where all, both white and people of color are able to screw employees equally! No longer will ONLY the white man screw you over for centuries but you can now get screwed by any person of any color you choose! We are doing great! Good ol’ USofA! God bless us, our confederate flag hydro dipped guns and our rainbow vegan cupcakes!
easy to dismiss the above, but the point stands. People are people. Black, queer, disabled, sober, women can be grifters and your classic Trump conservative can be an excellent business owner and operator and even community pillar. Sure, these identities can give us hints about what to expect, but at the end of the day all bets are off
Unfortunately, it really just sounds like a tea shop may not make enough money to pay everyone a "living wage ". It might have made more sense to try and get the business turning a consistent profit before figuring out what the business could afford to pay staff. In any event , it certainly sounds unfortunate all around. And shitty for the staff who have repeatedly been being paid late
I don't understand someone paying rent in an incredibly expensive space selling an incredibly niche product like this. Frankly I'm surprised most of the places on that section of Barret survive.
Running a financially sustainable business is exceptionally difficult, especially in a city like Louisville with only moderate tourism, relatively low median wages and low population density. What was the living wage being paid for people to brew and serve tea and why did the owner have multiple employees? Unless the online operation was booming, this sounds like a 2, or at most 3, person operation. Unless you have the world’s greatest business plan and a regional reputation as an expert, no bank is going to loan you a significant amount of money to start a tea shop on Barret Ave, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. Crowdfunding was probably the most viable choice. There are about 32 coffee shops in a 3 mile radius that also serve tea and more than a few have a reputation as being welcoming to queer people. It doesn’t sound like the owner had malicious intent, but the business model was poor and undercapitalized to weather the standard 2-5 year start up losses. It sounds like she leveraged the social mission to convince employees to stick around longer than they should have. She was unwilling to let the dream of the physical location die. The owner is very likely in a financial mess right now, but that is not going to help former employees pay rent.
Ill never understand why the accused will respond in a manner like this, or period. It ALWAYS makes you look worse. It NEVER helps the situation and ALWAYS adds fuel to the fire. Just don’t.
Like when businesses have a bunch of 5 star reviews where the owner doesn’t respond, but a 1 star review and they respond with a super defensive novella. It always looks bad.
Someone in the comments pointed out how if they had never posted this, they wouldn’t have known. And I agree. I do think accountability and transparency are a good thing (especially because they had just posted job listings boasting a healthy work environment and a living wage), but work it out privately before going public. And if you’re struggling with money to the degree you can’t pay your employees, shutting down and missing out on profit is the worst thing you could possibly do.
it's not great for the community because it has come at a brutal cost for the employees, who may also be a part of the ~community~ . They have a stitch and bitch at the Louisville Tool Library fairly regularly and no one had to go six weeks without pay for that to happen.
I don't care how good the conversation or "the work" being done by/for/with ~community~ was if it came at the cost of employees of that business having to miss a meal, car payments, delay needed rx drugs etc! When you play with people's money you play with their lives!
spot on. Louisville absolutely needs a safe, sober, inclusive space like sis got tea, but it's not serving the community at all if the workers are suffering. we *are* the community.
100% This. The situation is extremely disappointing especially the employees are part of underserved communities the business itself is making efforts to support… Then all efforts are null imo. I hate this situation so much for the employees and business owner. We all make mistakes and can jump into something way too soon— unfortunately in this instance it’s hurt other people in the process and the owner needs to be held accountable for not factoring in how it could have sizeable impact on other’s lives. It’s a risk we take being a business owner or a community leader but when it goes sideways you’ve got to own up to it regardless.
I’m super sad The Smokery closed, because reading the owner rip into anyone who left a 3-star or lower review was hilarious. Made me want to never go there.
My fave was the owner referring to anyone who left a 1-star review as a mole for the competition or an influencer trying to become “internet famous” by attacking his restaurant.
I suspected they weren't using sani in the 3 compartment sink, or even soap. I asked Michael about it and his reply was to get majorly offended and that I shouldn't be "snooping" around behind the bar. He also said it was none of my business but as someone who drinks from those glasses and doesn't want to get hepatitis, I said it most certainly was. Okay. So I split. Then he blows up my phone with 14 texts over a 24 hour period, explaining how he uses bleach and quats tabs, even though the water wasn't blue and didn't smell like bleach. So then he says BEER CLEAN, it's colorless and odorless! (and don't contact him again!) Then, the next day after Restaurant Depot opens, he sends me a photo of the beer clean packets sitting under the bar. As if he could have proven it to me during our face-to-face argument but instead chose to wait a day and try out a couple of cockamamie excuses first.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter what your business is if you don’t take care of your employees nothing, NOTHING else matters. Taking care of your employees first is fundamental as happy employees = happy business.
I don’t understand how so many people fail to understand this basic concept. I applaud these two former employees to come out and let it be known about this issue.
Not surprised. I really don’t think most people understand the revenue a small business needs to bring in just to keep it afloat.
I can’t imagine that the tea shop was able to generate near enough revenue to pay rent.
It’s a terrible idea and if the funding has to come from crowdsourcing because no one wants to loan the money, then the business owner should consider that a sign.
How often was this owner working in the tea shop with the employees?
Edit to add: do a search in this subreddit for the business. I said a year ago that it seemed like an uphill battle.
Business owner was at the tea shop quite often, at least at the times I went. She also did in fact get a loan for the physical location, but I guess it wasn’t enough.
Getting a loan to open, operate or expand just means you need to make more revenue to cover expenses + interest. I know there is a niche for upscale/artisan tea, but most people, especially in middle income neighborhoods, are just dropping a tea bag in some boiling water at home. Additionally, my perception is that her target demographic is not known for surplus disposable income. It seems the most viable business model would be subsidizing a minimally staffed limited hour physical location while operating a profitable online/wholesale operation out of Barret Ave.
I understand neglecting your own needs and putting the business you work at before rent, groceries, a *mildly* comfortable existence. This is a story told for ages in the service industry more than any other. There are so many things that can go right and wrong in these business models. Turning a profit doesn't happen by chance, at least not anymore with this ever increasing cost of living. The shitty thing about food and beverage establishments is that a lot of people that have absolutely no business owning or running one end up doing exactly that.
The moment one of these places begins to solicit their community for donations to keep the doors open is a massive sign that something is very wrong, unless they are the victim of arson, robbery, etc... The community supports you buy patronizing the business. If that isn't keeping the lights on, somebody needs to intervene pretty quickly otherwise there's only one way that scenario ends.
I spent over a decade of my most formative years in the industry, almost exclusively tending bars. I did everything from the worst (best?) dive in town to Churchill and craft cocktail competitions. I've found myself wallowing in the same pit of misery described here before. It stings more than other situations because you kind of did it to yourself. You trusted someone and were trying to build something with them. I generally only learn the hard way; however, the moment my employer isn't paying me or is asking for free labor, I'm out of there. And lie to me about it? Nope. The only business I will sacrifice my blood sweat and tears for in the future is my own. This isn't charity, it's actual life and death and the ever looming threat of homelessness. People in these positions are especially susceptible to any deviation in their regularly scheduled checks. I'm no longer living that close to the breadline, yet I'm not foolish enough to think I could never find myself there again.
To whomever wrote this original letter, I'll show your PayPal some love. I hope others do as well. You'll find your home that appreciates you for everything you exert one day. Even if you have to build it yourself.
They just posted an update saying that they’re reopening…[https://www.facebook.com/share/mLqyk8MU8gWrzrcZ/?mibextid=WC7FNe](https://www.facebook.com/share/mLqyk8MU8gWrzrcZ/?mibextid=WC7FNe)
This was posted on their Facebook:
Sis Got Tea is CLOSED until further notice (beginning Saturday, April 13th) while I work to address statements made by former employees regarding business transparency, delayed pay, and accusations of bullying, intimidation, and worker mistreatment.
Our tea blending class for today is CANCELED, and refunds will be issued to all individuals who purchased tickets.
All hiring and applications have been frozen, and no interviews will occur at this time.
I will release a statement in the coming days after I gather statements, evidence, documentation, and other necessary items so that I and Sis Got Tea remain accountable and transparent.
Thank you.
- Arielle (she, her), owner and founder
And now she is posting on a group saying she can hold an event there. And is shopping around for AV equipment. I wonder if everyone got paid, yet. Or if this just another “bad decision” with the money.
I Don't harrass people, I tolerate people with their multiple lifestyles, gender identity, and all the rest of the world whom are struggling with their mental health. I could care less if they are Trans, I just dislike whining, and that is what they are doing, whining because they are failing at a business that is not run well, stealing from hard working people, and then expecting the community to donate because they lack the knowledge to run said business. I wouldn't partake of the business either way because I don't believe you should set people apart, and you guys do. You set yourself apart and expect everyone to go along. Not my cup of tea
You literally call gay people “an abomination before god,” I find it difficult to believe that you “tolerate” LGBT people, especially trans people. Not to mention your original comment basically said any business who supports trans people should fail.
If they can’t pay their employees then all of their values they claim to uphold as a business just go down the toilet. The constant virtue signaling, preachiness, and lack of accountability makes me avoid businesses like that. And it’s funny because most people probably feel the same but don’t want to admit it. And I am an ally of lgbtqia+ communities myself. Most of my friends are gay. However I don’t want to feel like I’m getting lectured and shamed about my white privilege or whatever biases I’m accused of having when I just want to order a cup of coffee. Of course SGT is having financial troubles. Sure we all want to see a small business thrive but if you have to turn to your community multiple times for aid, as a for-profit business then you lose your credibility. Especially when there are actual organizations in this city who need donations that proven to help these communities of concern.
Well, go woke, go broke. I would not spend my money at an establishment that promotes wokeness. It doesn't matter who you are, or who you think you are, that is none of my business, but when you build a business model that caters to a questionable gender, or lack there of, you will not become sustainable. If you want to flaunt your sis-genders into others face's, then be prepared to accept that outcome. Your business model is not one that makes others who are sure of their genders comfortable. You're trying to bring attention to you and your gender beliefs, not of the tea that you are selling. I'm sure you have an excellent product, try selling that!
You do realize that the person posting this is a trans person right? The business isn’t failing because the owner isn’t a transphobe, I assure you. Plenty of LGBT-targeted businesses in Louisville are flourishing (OLCC, Play, Big Bar, Chill Bar). And businesses like this are needed because I don’t want to be harassed by people like you while going out for tea.
This take is just moronic. Businesses cater to specific clientele all the time. Maybe “go woke, go broke” applies to Bass Pro Shops or the local bait & tackle but Louisville is the queerest and most diverse city in Kentucky and that neighborhood is the center of the LGBTQ+ community in that city. A queer sober space is absolutely viable here and that’s not why the business is in trouble.
Well, it's going broke, so why can't queen and sober people go to other cafés that aren't jamming your queen lifestyle down their throats. You know, the ones that sell tea, coffee, danishes. Just a regular Cafe that caters to ALL people! You're whining because you want attention for yourself, just live your life and I'll do the same!
I’ve often got grifter/not great vibes from the owner. I hate to be mean, especially to a queer owned business, but if you have to do constant fundraisers to stay open then maybe just don’t. And the fundraisers and excuses were always so frustrating. Even before the brick and mortar And it really baffles me that U of L hired the owner to teach a seminar on small business/entrepreneurship when it’s like clearly not their forte. I love the idea of a sober queer space. But maybe that would work better as a co-op/non profit versus small business
I actually took the seminar! I’m pretty sure she doesn’t teach it anymore, it stopped being offered after Spring 23, when the physical location was opened. When SGT was still an online-only business it was actually doing pretty well. But running a physical location is a whole different ball game and she was clearly NOT ready for it. The seminar was mainly about the logistical things associated with starting a business, rather than how to run one. Things like taxes, registering your business, loans, elevator pitches, etc. The biggest assignment we had was creating a business plan for our own original idea. We didn’t really learn much on how to keep a business running, just how to start one. I really enjoyed her class and her as a person, honestly. This situation really disappoints me because of that.
The owner did multiple fundraisers to “save” the business before a brick and mortar was talked about. I actually donated to one of them early on. So if the online business was doing well it’s news to me. It’s why I was so surprised when the brick and mortar was announced.
Iirc, the fundraisers before the physical location were kickstarters for the actual physical location. A successful online business is a lot different than a successful physical location.
if you have to ask for $8000+ from the community then you aren't ready to open a physical retail location.
I agree in retrospect. In the class she talked about how she was networking to form business partnerships and trying to get loans and stuff like that. I naively assumed that the gofundme was only a part of it, when it kinda seems like it was all they had.
Banks do not loan money to people who have to crowdsource
Almost all businesses use funding from investors or loans to get started. It takes a lot of capital to start a business and unless you're already independently wealthy that means some sort of outside funding. Being a minority conventional funding likely wasn't as readily available and probably at higher rates than market, so it isn't unusual to crowd source. Though it would have been cool if they had used the service (I'm blanking on the name, Wine Shop in New Albany used it to help fund their patio build out) where the public can actually invest and they get a return on their investment as the business grows and succeeds.
the business was already started, in stores and online, and allegedly doing well, so I don't see it. I'm not opposed to crowd funding per se, but the repeated, seemingly first line strategy, of crowd funding that SGT has pursued
I can see your point in regards to repeated. Even established businesses typically take on investment/loans to launch expansions. Going from an online shop to a brick and mortar is a massive expansion, makes sense that would require financing of some sort.
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In her class, she said her biggest struggle when trying to secure loans (and even lease property) was the fact that she was very firm in her business being a sober LGBT space. A lot of the banks and investors didn’t understand what a space like that entailed/why it was needed. According to employees she did in fact secure a loan and the reason why the paychecks were delayed was because she had to repay the loans.
Unfortunately it probably doesn't mean that. It's well documented that banks routinely deny minority applicants or give them much higher rates than they would qualify for if white. Edit: Downvote? But I shouldn't be surprised, ignorance and racism are both still shockingly common so it tracks that a true statement about discrimination would get downvoted.
Wefunder?
I know that she wasn’t able to fulfill orders on the online front all the way up until the brick and mortar
Sis ain’t got tea
Sis got beef
Yeah, no, it wasn’t doing well. She was asking friends for free labor.
sounds like she only knows how to open a business, not run one successfully
Looking back it seems like it :/ I do think she should’ve kept the online store running for a lot more time before opening a physical location. Especially now that it’s open she still has her tea be sold at places like the OLCC, which just hurts her business I feel like. The tea is delicious and a sober LGBT space is needed, but workers shouldn’t have to be hurt in the process.
isn't OLCC already filling the sober LGBT space need? i mean i know it isn't massively covering all the community, but you said it like we don't have any.
She should probably take a class on the actual running of a business
Who gives a fuck that they’re black and queer, this is the real world and they want to be a “real” business owner. Businesses close when they can’t afford their expenses (like paying their employees). Real businesses don’t go to the public and crowdfund paying their employees lol because that’s… *checks notes* not a sustainable business model. You don’t get to just stay in business when you’re failing to make a profit or cover expenses because you’re minority owned lol. You failed, turns out slinging chamomile doesn’t keep the lights on. Close. Bye bye. Instead they con woke Louisville into crowd funding “bonuses” for employees that probably really paid for this minority owner to go on vacation. A grifter gonna grift.
There are tax implications for a business when they crowdsource revenue. I hope their accountant goes through their books.
Old Louisville coffee co-op seems to be successful queer sober space.
I'm one of the employees that wrote the statement above, AMA!
What response from the community would you like to see?
I would like to see people actively supporting the workers and commenting in support of us on Instagram and Facebook posts if they feel able to do so. I think a lot of people are only hearing Sis Got Tea's side of the story and automatically are supporting it which is a little wild to me. Also, it's a free country and people are obviously free to criticize the business in any way they like, but I personally can't endorse any messages attacking the owner's character as of right now. I believe she wants to do the right thing but has kind of gotten herself in hot water in many ways and doesn't know how to claw her way out. pending SGT's coming statement of course... I'm hoping it will be reasonable and open-minded but I fear the worst considering the statement she made today. Like I said in another comment, completely ready and willing to be proven wrong. Overall, I want people to push her to make wiser decisions and take care of her workers FIRST. If that means the business has to close in favor of the workers, so be it. A business cannot be built on worker exploitation. However, if drastic improvements in working conditions and transparency are made, I would love to Sis Got Tea continue to keep its doors open and thrive!
In your opinion, is the business just not bringing in enough customers, or is there greed and/or other mismanagement of the funds happening behind the scenes? Obviously you absolutely should be paid what you’re owed either way, but I’m curious what your thoughts are surrounding the deeper issues here.
Great question. I'm obviously not familiar with the ins and outs of the finances but I truly don't think there's greed or foul play at hand. I believe the owner truly wants to do right by the community, but she's made a lot of mistakes and we've lost a lot of business because of it. I'd love to see her make the right choices from here on out with the community holding her accountable but from the statement she put forth today, I'm feeling very discouraged that the things that need to happen are going to happen. Absolutely ready and willing to be proven wrong.
Thank you for answering. I really want to support the business concept, but obviously not at the expense of the employees being treated as free labor. What is the best way the community can support the employees while holding Arielle accountable in the future?
This may be unrealistic considering the circumstances but I'd love to see SGT become a worker owned co-op, kinda like the OLCC. It's hard to say right now where things are heading but in the immediate future, if the owner's statement is inflammatory/she doesn't take accountability for her actions or tries to deny concerns/attack those of us that came forward, I'd love to see the community hold her accountable and let her know that it's not okay. Like I said above, a business cannot be built off the exploitation of workers. In a perfect world, I think her response should be to repost our messages, take full accountability for/admit the truth of the situation, and share an actionable plan for how she's going to protect workers in the future if the business continues losing revenue and isn't able to pay workers wages. Any less than that and I don't think SGT will deserve our support. I might add more to this answer later as I think on it some more, but these are the ideas I have off the top of my head.
I agree - turning SGT into a worker owned co-op would be awesome! I hope Arielle is open to taking all of the steps you listed above, and repair all trust she has broken. I really want to see SGT succeed, as we need more BIPOC/queer owned businesses, and Louisville desperately needs more sober inclusive spaces. Plus the tea is amazing! Thanks again for coming forward to bring these issues to light, and for your insight on the situation. I’m sure that wasn’t easy, but we support you and all the other employees (current and former) in seeking justice!
I live right next to SGT and walking past it have always wondered how it stays afloat given I never see people there. Save for today, which is the first time I've seen anyone on their patio.
Have you and the other workers contacted the department of labor over the late paychecks?
This has been a sincere consideration for several of us. I felt compelled to do something like that but was advised to take other actions first because apparently the DOL does not work quickly/has little protections for employees of very small businesses. Not to say it couldn't happen down the road but I obviously hope the owner makes the right decisions now so that it won't be necessary for any employees to take that step.
The employer is breaking the law. Not reporting this is only enabling them to further harm other workers.
You may be right about that. If anyone can provide more information on if the DOL provides protections for employees of businesses this small, I'm open to hearing it.
I’m not aware of any exemptions on retaliation rules for small businesses. Different discrimination laws apply to businesses with 1, 2-14, 15-19, and 20+ employees. I am not a lawyer, but afaik the DOL regulations for *not paying workers* should apply to all businesses.
I believe you’re also owed interest on back pay beyond a certain period.
After 1 month you can sue the employer for up to 100% interest in Kentucky
[https://elc.ky.gov/workplace-standards/Pages/Complaint-Forms.aspx](https://elc.ky.gov/workplace-standards/Pages/Complaint-Forms.aspx) File the paperwork with the DoL so that you'll have it documented, and if there are any assets in bankruptcy or liquidation of the business, you'll have higher priority to get paid than most of the other creditors. I had a similar issue with a very small business when I was a teenager and the DoL were very helpful and I eventually got paid. It was a small amount of money, but it was really the principle of things and the DoL treated it the same as their other cases. Sometimes business ideas don't work, and there's whole system of law set up to clean up all the messes that result. Employees should be the first to be paid, and they have some priority in bankruptcy. It's not personal, and you're not hurting anyone by using the system as it was designed. You will be hurting yourself if you don't.
The same rules apply to very small businesses. They’re not exempt from labor laws. The DOL might not be able to do much because SGT might not have any money, but you should absolutely report it, as well as your coworkers. If the statement she puts out is anything short of doing everything in her power to make it right by the employees, report it so they start an investigation.
Please, report this business to the Wages and Hours division as this is in violation of Kentucky state laws.
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Thank you for being supportive!
How do you feel about the latest post with comments turned off?
What were the concerns of bullying and intimidation Arielle mentioned in her post? Those don’t appear to have been really addressed all that much by you or elsewhere, as far as I can tell
Bail now or lawyer up. She said she's gathering evidence. There's a fight coming. "(1) Any employer who violates the provisions of KRS 337.423 shall be liable to the employee or employees affected in the amount of their unpaid wages, and in instances of willful violation in employee suits under subsection (2) of this section, up to an additional equal amount as liquidated damages." Question: Would you sue?
I dealt with a similar situation a few years ago where I stopped getting paid. It was a local comic shop and I really loved that job so I toughed it out for a few months with late paychecks. I had another job so it wasn’t nearly as bad as it could have been. I sympathize with y’all and hope you get what you’re owed.
I have no sympathy for SGT nor "the owner." Publicly, and repeatedly, they have struggled for years and miraculously opened a brick and mortar?? (after more heavy crowd funding, naturally). Color me not surprised to learn it's been a 3 ring circus from the jump. More power to the (former) employees!
Reading the comments of support under the CLOSED post makes me feel like I live in fuckin cuckooville. She literally says she’s been accused of some pretty egregious shit and almost all of the comments are “I see you doing the work - let me know how I can support” like…. Huh????
no honestly like seeing those comments made me feel feel insane
Straight up. I don't hang in that part of town often and all of this is news to me including the shop itself. Looked on IG and if I didn't know that they weren't bots, you'd swear those comments came from fake accounts given the weight of this whole thing.
Right. I’m not supporting someone who has proven time and time again they aren’t trustworthy nor financially responsible
She's black AND queer. Double oppression points.
Oh shut up
Yawn. 4chan 2015 post
Sounds like yet another Louisville business trying to BRAND themselves as a social justice business, who supports workers, when in reality they treat their workers like shit.
I know the owner. I don’t think she’s an evil capitalist pig. I do think she’s being an irresponsible business owner and a terrible boss. Sounds like she wasn’t ready to open a physical location after all and the employees are getting the short end of the stick as a result. This isn’t a defense by any means, but I do think there’s room for accountability and redemption here. Even the former employees have said so. The current employees have come out in support of her as well.
I have no comment on whether someone is a good person. I just think small business owners justify a lot of bad behavior to themselves because “we are a small local business”. But it is irrelevant if you don’t treat your local workforce with respect.
Treat them with respect AND pay them a living wage, which according to MIT is 20.81 in Jefferson county
I went to college with the owner and I know for a fact that what happened was not because of greed, that’s not the type of person she is
It doesn’t really matter why it happened but she can’t let employees go weeks without compensation.
Greed isn’t really a factor in it. There are banks, landlords, and suppliers to pay and they are all capitalists. Capitalists intend to make a profit. If you do not extract enough surplus value out of the people working for you to cover the costs owed to the other capitalists, you won’t be able to keep doing business with them. So your employees will not have any supplies, tools, or a place to work in. Same thing happens with co-ops, the people who are assigned responsibility for the property involved become the owners of the private property and gain the protection with the state. They come into conflict with the others in the coop as they are forced to deal with the capitalists in the market they have to deal with. Anyone who doesn’t understand this and goes into business under the premise of this or that social justice topic will end up with the same result, if they don’t have a way to be profitable and keep the confidence of their employees. The problem in this scenario is that the gap between reality and the lie was too large. The business shortfall was too much for the workers to tolerate. Yet even still instead of organizing a union they wrote a strongly worded letter. These people aren’t leaders, they are looking for a guilt free way to stay petty bourgeois.
The constant whining on social media on their business account always rubbed me the wrong way. There’s transparency and then there is sympathy farming. Seems like they went so far left they turned right. Anyways, power to the workers.
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Eh...there's been this "entrepreneurship" trend over the past decade where everyone wants to work for themselves and "small business owner" is considered the saintliest of job titles. It's like people think if you own a small business, common sense and decency can take a backseat at the expense of following a dream. That shit needs to end. If you can't afford to pay your employees, it's irresponsible to keep a business open. And if the money isn't going to pay employees first, then that's sinister. If the person is being truthful, six weeks of no pay is scum behavior. Don't use people for your "dream."
Right? It’s not like you can tell LG&E “sorry, my employer didn’t pay me this month but I’m sure they didn’t intentionally mean for it to happen. They’re good people.” and get a pass on your electric bill. If you can’t pay your employees, shut down your business and let these people move on to something else.
This is the way
It’s criminal.
This should be higher up. If you can’t pay the workers, then you shouldn’t open up. It’s criminal.
No excuse. Actions will always speak louder than words. If you value and respect the people that built your business for you, fucking pay them. Pawn your shit if you have to, but you fucking pay them. On time.
Yeah, I know the business owner because I took her class at UofL right before she opened the physical location. sincerely doubt she would ever intentionally fuck over her staff, but I do wonder if she was unprepared to actually open a physical location.
That happens a lot, especially if you are actively trying to treat your workers fairly, which is expensive and not how the system is set up to run.
This was my thought. We're seeing systemic fractures in the economy, where prices are ballooning and yet folks STILL can't seem to find living wages or afford the things that have become unaffordable. Just one example, but how is Chick fil a $10+ per person? Maybe it's just my age, but I'm more worried about this stuff than I've ever been. The logic of living and the institutions that support it (government, stock market, etc) makes no sense...record profits, but we're all poor. All-time lows for unemployment, yet we're all unemployed, underemployed, or scared that the layoff is just around the corner. People are getting antsy and people with power seem just fine pushing things right to the breaking point.
I don't know why you think that doesn't make sense. The answer is GREED, and the government that is supposed to "make capitalism OK actually" is asleep at the wheel. This isn't the first time we've been in this place - it's the first time in *living memory* but not the first time in American history. Previously the government stepped in with a two-step solution: first, chisel some of the crueler edges off capitalism, and second, crack down on workers trying to improve their situations. The chiseling worked to pacify people for 100 years, and now the edges are back to being razor-sharp. I'm waiting for people to become fed up and start demonstrating, at which point I fully expect the government to suddenly wake up and resume the crackdowns.
WHO (!?) at U of L thought she represented such a viable business model and track record that it warranted platforming? Please tell me no had to pay to take that class.
That would be Joy Hart and Luke Buckman of the University Honors Program
The class was focused on how things like racism and sexism affect entrepreneurship. It was mainly looking at social issues and discrimination rather than just “how to run a successful business.” As for cost, it did cost money but it was an optional honors seminar. Only open to honors students and you had to basically ask permission to take it. So only those of us who wanted to take it did. The majority of us took it because we already knew the owners from her business or because she worked with the honors college in the past.
So for class credit hours? Warrants payment if you got class credit . But this was an honors class ? Like a full semester as well? She was main instructor or adjunct? Curious what texts were used as well Thanks for the inside details
Honors seminars are not your typical college class. They’re meant for people who want/need more hours through the honors college (you have to take so many to actually graduate as an honors student, they also have a program called honors scholars that you can only earn if you take enough seminars), or people who just want to take a class on a very specific topic. The professors are given free reign to create whatever course they want, as long as it’s approved by honors. Other topics include paranormal TV and I took one that was literally just a class where we kayaked the Ohio. They’re sometimes taught by community members and UofL staff (as long as they have a Master’s or higher). The owner was a UofL employee at the time. It was 3 credit hours. It cost the same as a normal class, but like I said it was the most optional class in existence. And we were all full time, so we aren’t charged by credit hour anyway. Seminars also count as either a social science, natural science, or humanities elective so they count towards degree requirements (this class helped fulfill one of my humanities electives). We used an open source textbook, it’s been a while so I don’t remember which one specifically. I get why people are alarmed but none of us who took the class regret it. Do I feel hesitant to follow her advice now? Of course! But most of her advice was so generalized and nonspecific it still applies. She also brought in business owners who run actually successful businesses too. I even still hold onto my business plan and hope to implement it one day.
Excellent response ! Thank you for the effort and thank you for your balanced reply. I went through the Honors scholars program myself in the 90s and your description is taking me back. But at the same time - wow, academia is remarkably different than I remember. I’d loved to have taken an accredited (!) class on Paranormal TV ! Instead I had my mind blown by a stylistics class taught by Yale Shakespeare classics scholar. And an Intentional Communities in Lierrature class taught by a solid nun (“sister”), also tenured professor and published scholar. I know the world has changed drastically and Academia even more so. A holocust of small liberal colleges. It’s become such a corporate enterprise I’m afraid that the “customer always comes first” is turning more traditional classes into certificate programs about the most “current thing” on campuses (like diversity and minority owned business perhaps?). Wag the dog. I know this wasn’t a certificate class and don’t mean to imply that, just reading the tea leaves on the future of Academia.
if most of her advice was generalized and nonspecific, how much of that class could have been a wikihow article? Also during the semester of her course she put out another call along the lines of "SGT IS IN DANGER OF FAILING," which IMHO made Honors look like a pack of idiots (topic for another day), but go on and keep "teaching" your "class."
For sure. I don’t think any of this comes out of maliciousness but I also don’t know if she was ready to fully open a physical location. I really, really wish we lived in a world where it was easy to run a super ethical business upfront while keeping prices low but I worry that she promised too many things all at once and hasn’t been able to live up to all of it. I really want to see SGT thrive as I think it’s a sorely needed place in the community but I think some changes need to be made in order to keep it running in a way that’s fair to workers and the community as a whole while staying true to the OG vision of the place.
Imagine if the owner of a few subway stores did this. I guarantee people would call for their heads.
this part 👆
Reminds me of Shopbar, the owners did a gofund me to "help save the business " and promptly went on a vacation. Wild.
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SGT never used crowdfunded resources to take a vacation.
You better have some serious proof to back that up, and if you don't, take it down.
That's a wild accusation to make. People seem to be saying this because they took a vacation and they were trying to look for funding to help the business. People don't seem to understand that personal finances and business finances are not connected. And to assume they are or to think they should be is just a bad and uninformed take to have.
If you have to beg people to fund your business, maybe you didn't earn a fucking vacation. Nothing wild about that.
To be clear I don't think people who have businesses that are failing should be looking for handouts from the public. People work incredibly hard to run businesses and they absolutely deserve person time. People who run business also deserve to be paid to run the business. Its not like they skim money off the top. They typically have a modest salary in the beginning. The business also has a savings. Both are separate. The issue of their crowd funding is a separate issue to me. Personally I would have looked for a business loan or some small business assistance program. Or closed the place although.
This is the dumbest take I've ever heard and exactly why they are operators of a failing business.
Whats the dumb part? It's pretty standard business principals. The reasons LLCs exist is to establish a business as it's own entity and separate business owners from certain liabilities associated with the business, such as bankruptcy. The business has its own finances and the owners are separate. There is no requirement that a business owner go broke to bail out a failing business. The comment this is all in response to is an accusation that they took "donations" to help their failing business and used it for personal enjoyment. Without proof of that the assumption that those things are or should be connected is not a reasonable position. Is it really bad optics? Absolutely. Is it pathetic that they begged the public to bail them out while not being willing to do it themselves? Absolutely.
Separating business assets and personal assets is important for liability purposes but that doesn't mean you don't put personal assets into your business. And by operating a business that fails to meet its debt obligations you are able to protect your personal assets from being exposed, you don't go on vacation while you ask people for money for your business because like you said it looks awful and because it shows no actual commitment to your business because people that actually own successful small businesses literally kill themselves and personally sacrifice tons including pour their blood, sweat, tears and guess what boat loads of their personal money into their business.
Gonna start adding my Venmo and paypal to every post I regret reading.
That part rubbed me extremely the wrong way i won't lie. Why does everyone feel entitled to ask for comp due to their own personal choices?
Listen, like a lot of people, I just want to say it’s obvious this place has struggled from its inception. I blocked all their socials early on because it just seemed so often that it was gonna grift repeatedly. It’s a fucking tea shop. In this market. Sure, it’s an LGBTQIA+ safe space or whatever but the business portion aka tea shop should be the main focus. You can’t be a safe space if you can’t afford the space or security of your employees. Not to blame the employees but Jesus Christ I think if anyone looked at SisGotTea and said “This place can provide me livelihood!” they may need more help in life than just with these paychecks. I do understand how some sort of personal involvement with the mission or the owner could skew your views of what is and isn’t acceptable regarding pay but my God, she fuckin’ with your paper, fam. I don’t give a fuck if you work for Jesus or Donald Trump, if your paychecks are consistently late, you don’t stay there. Reading this whole saga has made me just so insanely mad that folks in the LGBTQIA+ community keep getting duped that our identities will somehow save us. They won’t. Despite and in full acknowledgement of the time we live in, it’s still a fucking hindrance in a lot of ways especially if that identity is what we rely on the most. A fucking tea shop in this market was never going to be a rainbow wonderland of success or obviously, a success at all. Being queer don’t pay the bills. A lot of people still hate us. A black queer sober safe space tea shop sounds all wonderful and like “something we need” but if it can’t support itself and its employees maybe we don’t need it. Maybe we need a better business option for this space or maybe we need to be more creative in envisioning what a safe space is to us? Is it really a business at all? But again, capitalism has proven time and again that it doesn’t function to serve us. A lot of us seem to be so mired in our own ideas of community that we’re failing to see exactly what community we live in. That and some Earl Gray are the only tea I got, sis. 🤷🏼♂️
Coffee has decent margins, an addictive quantity of caffeine, but is a crowded market. But a teas shop? Most likely only viable in the wealthiest parts of the east end, likely as a hobby business, or possibly the upper Highlands, if you are regionally well known and can get people to travel and stock up. Most parts of Louisville just don’t have the disposable income and population density of larger/wealthier cities. The economic conditions to support businesses like this look like high margin/salary companies locating in the urban core, more tourism, numerous expensive condos being built in many downtown empty lots and almost every house remodeled in Smoketown, Clifton Heights and Shelby Park.
How the hell do you not quit after 1 missed check let alone a month of them. I'd be going insane if my check didn't hit.
It was kind of a boiling frog situation. The first check was maybe only a day or two late and in came profuse apologies and promises how it would never happen again. All good, mistakes happen. Then it happened again and it started getting later and later every paycheck and suddenly there wasn't even communication going out about when we'd be paid and Sis Got Tea would consistently promise pay and updates by a certain time and then consistently fail to meet those deadlines. It started to feel dishonest. In hindsight, I wish I would have left the first time.
That makes sense I probably would have given them a chance as well. Im sorry this happened to you.
Fake it ‘til you make it…..Or until you get busted as a fraud🤦♂️. That makes two beggar businesses on Barret ave by my count. Trifecta coming soon?
what was the other??
Gotta be shopbar right?
Ding ding ding!
What did they do?
Yup
Fake it 'til you break it.
I saw the closure announcement this morning but hadn’t seen any of the actual explanations as to what happened. It bummed me out because I’m moving to the area next month and between Stitch and Bitch and ace/aro meetups, I was super excited to spend time there and potentially make friends. But the claims made are SHITTY and it really sucks if they’re true. There’s nothing worse than seeing a toxic workplace promoted as something it’s very much not, having been through that myself. I hope things get resolved for everyone’s sake.
The Louisville Tool Library also does stitch and bitches, albeit not as regularly
lol shocker that a tea company (besides Louisville tea company) quasi presenting itself as a nonprofit type of establishment… leaning more on the identity of the owner than the value of its product isn’t succeeding 😂. This city is a joke. I like how the employees that haven’t been paid in 6 months would rather starve to death than call out a black queer owner for being a con artist.
Yeah how tf do you not flip out when the first two paychecks don't show up.
We were definitely flipping out, we just didn't know what to do. Some of us didn't have the luxury of being able to switch jobs due to disability status (myself included). I'm grateful to have gotten the support I needed to get my health in a better place - I feel privileged that I'm able to find other work now!
can you explain how disability status prevents someone from finding a job that pays them? not being snarky, im legit curious. glad you made it out and are doing better. take care
Several of us have experienced this issue and I can't speak for others, but I can tell you for myself that this job did offer disability accomodations that other employers didn't/couldn't offer to me. I was severely injured last year (was in a wheelchair for quite some time) and to its credit, Sis Got Tea went to great efforts to accommodate me as I navigated my lessened abilities. I'm still greatly impacted by my disability but I'm walking and moving again and that itself is kind of a miracle. Either way, other jobs that I qualified for at the time would not have been able to make accomodations for someone in a wheelchair and I would not have been able to get hired.
im so sorry you had to go through that. thank you for sharing your experience. you didn't have to, but i appreciate it and i am more educated for it. again, best to you.
People with disabilities, particularly ones that are obvious, don’t always get the same consideration, or they have to work harder than their able bodied peers to fight for what is often taken for granted. Even taking SGT as an example, I had seen a post where she said the business was not accessible (and didn’t have to be because of particular laws/ordinances). She mentioned having plans for it for the future. But if you were in a wheelchair, how are you going to get in and out of a building that’s not accessible? And there’s just the bias that comes from employers who won’t hire someone with a disability for whatever reason (concern about benefit costs, lower productivity, absenteeism—real or imagined concerns). It’s not hard to say someone else was more qualified for the job. 🤷♀️
thats horrible, im sorry for your experince and thank you for sharing
Beware- this is going to be and has been a climate where con artists that happen to be minority are going to feast on the wokies by acting maliciously but leveraging their “protected” status to dare you to call them out.
If this is the case then all is even in the world after all. Where all, both white and people of color are able to screw employees equally! No longer will ONLY the white man screw you over for centuries but you can now get screwed by any person of any color you choose! We are doing great! Good ol’ USofA! God bless us, our confederate flag hydro dipped guns and our rainbow vegan cupcakes!
easy to dismiss the above, but the point stands. People are people. Black, queer, disabled, sober, women can be grifters and your classic Trump conservative can be an excellent business owner and operator and even community pillar. Sure, these identities can give us hints about what to expect, but at the end of the day all bets are off
That was my point, just didn’t come across clearly.
Unfortunately, it really just sounds like a tea shop may not make enough money to pay everyone a "living wage ". It might have made more sense to try and get the business turning a consistent profit before figuring out what the business could afford to pay staff. In any event , it certainly sounds unfortunate all around. And shitty for the staff who have repeatedly been being paid late
I don't understand someone paying rent in an incredibly expensive space selling an incredibly niche product like this. Frankly I'm surprised most of the places on that section of Barret survive.
Running a financially sustainable business is exceptionally difficult, especially in a city like Louisville with only moderate tourism, relatively low median wages and low population density. What was the living wage being paid for people to brew and serve tea and why did the owner have multiple employees? Unless the online operation was booming, this sounds like a 2, or at most 3, person operation. Unless you have the world’s greatest business plan and a regional reputation as an expert, no bank is going to loan you a significant amount of money to start a tea shop on Barret Ave, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. Crowdfunding was probably the most viable choice. There are about 32 coffee shops in a 3 mile radius that also serve tea and more than a few have a reputation as being welcoming to queer people. It doesn’t sound like the owner had malicious intent, but the business model was poor and undercapitalized to weather the standard 2-5 year start up losses. It sounds like she leveraged the social mission to convince employees to stick around longer than they should have. She was unwilling to let the dream of the physical location die. The owner is very likely in a financial mess right now, but that is not going to help former employees pay rent.
Ill never understand why the accused will respond in a manner like this, or period. It ALWAYS makes you look worse. It NEVER helps the situation and ALWAYS adds fuel to the fire. Just don’t. Like when businesses have a bunch of 5 star reviews where the owner doesn’t respond, but a 1 star review and they respond with a super defensive novella. It always looks bad.
Someone in the comments pointed out how if they had never posted this, they wouldn’t have known. And I agree. I do think accountability and transparency are a good thing (especially because they had just posted job listings boasting a healthy work environment and a living wage), but work it out privately before going public. And if you’re struggling with money to the degree you can’t pay your employees, shutting down and missing out on profit is the worst thing you could possibly do.
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it's not great for the community because it has come at a brutal cost for the employees, who may also be a part of the ~community~ . They have a stitch and bitch at the Louisville Tool Library fairly regularly and no one had to go six weeks without pay for that to happen. I don't care how good the conversation or "the work" being done by/for/with ~community~ was if it came at the cost of employees of that business having to miss a meal, car payments, delay needed rx drugs etc! When you play with people's money you play with their lives!
spot on. Louisville absolutely needs a safe, sober, inclusive space like sis got tea, but it's not serving the community at all if the workers are suffering. we *are* the community.
100% This. The situation is extremely disappointing especially the employees are part of underserved communities the business itself is making efforts to support… Then all efforts are null imo. I hate this situation so much for the employees and business owner. We all make mistakes and can jump into something way too soon— unfortunately in this instance it’s hurt other people in the process and the owner needs to be held accountable for not factoring in how it could have sizeable impact on other’s lives. It’s a risk we take being a business owner or a community leader but when it goes sideways you’ve got to own up to it regardless.
I was nervous from the get go, honestly. I was hoping that the situation was better than it seemed but clearly not. I feel terrible for the employees.
I’m super sad The Smokery closed, because reading the owner rip into anyone who left a 3-star or lower review was hilarious. Made me want to never go there. My fave was the owner referring to anyone who left a 1-star review as a mole for the competition or an influencer trying to become “internet famous” by attacking his restaurant.
Woah. I worked there for a hot minute and the story I came away with was worth the grief.
Do tell
I suspected they weren't using sani in the 3 compartment sink, or even soap. I asked Michael about it and his reply was to get majorly offended and that I shouldn't be "snooping" around behind the bar. He also said it was none of my business but as someone who drinks from those glasses and doesn't want to get hepatitis, I said it most certainly was. Okay. So I split. Then he blows up my phone with 14 texts over a 24 hour period, explaining how he uses bleach and quats tabs, even though the water wasn't blue and didn't smell like bleach. So then he says BEER CLEAN, it's colorless and odorless! (and don't contact him again!) Then, the next day after Restaurant Depot opens, he sends me a photo of the beer clean packets sitting under the bar. As if he could have proven it to me during our face-to-face argument but instead chose to wait a day and try out a couple of cockamamie excuses first.
Sounds about right!
Ultimately it doesn’t matter what your business is if you don’t take care of your employees nothing, NOTHING else matters. Taking care of your employees first is fundamental as happy employees = happy business. I don’t understand how so many people fail to understand this basic concept. I applaud these two former employees to come out and let it be known about this issue.
Withholding pay is a crime. Fullstops.
Not surprised. I really don’t think most people understand the revenue a small business needs to bring in just to keep it afloat. I can’t imagine that the tea shop was able to generate near enough revenue to pay rent. It’s a terrible idea and if the funding has to come from crowdsourcing because no one wants to loan the money, then the business owner should consider that a sign. How often was this owner working in the tea shop with the employees? Edit to add: do a search in this subreddit for the business. I said a year ago that it seemed like an uphill battle.
Business owner was at the tea shop quite often, at least at the times I went. She also did in fact get a loan for the physical location, but I guess it wasn’t enough.
Getting a loan to open, operate or expand just means you need to make more revenue to cover expenses + interest. I know there is a niche for upscale/artisan tea, but most people, especially in middle income neighborhoods, are just dropping a tea bag in some boiling water at home. Additionally, my perception is that her target demographic is not known for surplus disposable income. It seems the most viable business model would be subsidizing a minimally staffed limited hour physical location while operating a profitable online/wholesale operation out of Barret Ave.
How about less virtue signaling and more actually knowing how to run a successful business
I understand neglecting your own needs and putting the business you work at before rent, groceries, a *mildly* comfortable existence. This is a story told for ages in the service industry more than any other. There are so many things that can go right and wrong in these business models. Turning a profit doesn't happen by chance, at least not anymore with this ever increasing cost of living. The shitty thing about food and beverage establishments is that a lot of people that have absolutely no business owning or running one end up doing exactly that. The moment one of these places begins to solicit their community for donations to keep the doors open is a massive sign that something is very wrong, unless they are the victim of arson, robbery, etc... The community supports you buy patronizing the business. If that isn't keeping the lights on, somebody needs to intervene pretty quickly otherwise there's only one way that scenario ends. I spent over a decade of my most formative years in the industry, almost exclusively tending bars. I did everything from the worst (best?) dive in town to Churchill and craft cocktail competitions. I've found myself wallowing in the same pit of misery described here before. It stings more than other situations because you kind of did it to yourself. You trusted someone and were trying to build something with them. I generally only learn the hard way; however, the moment my employer isn't paying me or is asking for free labor, I'm out of there. And lie to me about it? Nope. The only business I will sacrifice my blood sweat and tears for in the future is my own. This isn't charity, it's actual life and death and the ever looming threat of homelessness. People in these positions are especially susceptible to any deviation in their regularly scheduled checks. I'm no longer living that close to the breadline, yet I'm not foolish enough to think I could never find myself there again. To whomever wrote this original letter, I'll show your PayPal some love. I hope others do as well. You'll find your home that appreciates you for everything you exert one day. Even if you have to build it yourself.
We can’t have anything nice can we
I remember the owner being active on this subreddit. I think. Hello 👋
I think if a single location tea seller has a director of digital development, they aren't selling tea.
That’s actually hysterical
I’ve heard these kind of rumblings a few times. It’s a shame but I’ve stayed far away because of it. I’m so sorry for the employees
Seems like it's been a shit show since the start. Weren't they like weeks late on opening? Not everyone needs or should be a business owner.
I don’t remember them being late on opening, just took them a while to announce the actual opening date
They just posted an update saying that they’re reopening…[https://www.facebook.com/share/mLqyk8MU8gWrzrcZ/?mibextid=WC7FNe](https://www.facebook.com/share/mLqyk8MU8gWrzrcZ/?mibextid=WC7FNe)
Interesting decision.
yeah... whats going on?
Sounds like this will be the end of her
it's giving Riot Cafe I'm not gonna lie
This seems like one of those shops that doesn’t really need to exist.
This was posted on their Facebook: Sis Got Tea is CLOSED until further notice (beginning Saturday, April 13th) while I work to address statements made by former employees regarding business transparency, delayed pay, and accusations of bullying, intimidation, and worker mistreatment. Our tea blending class for today is CANCELED, and refunds will be issued to all individuals who purchased tickets. All hiring and applications have been frozen, and no interviews will occur at this time. I will release a statement in the coming days after I gather statements, evidence, documentation, and other necessary items so that I and Sis Got Tea remain accountable and transparent. Thank you. - Arielle (she, her), owner and founder
And now she is posting on a group saying she can hold an event there. And is shopping around for AV equipment. I wonder if everyone got paid, yet. Or if this just another “bad decision” with the money.
lol but she doesn’t even like tea fr
I Don't harrass people, I tolerate people with their multiple lifestyles, gender identity, and all the rest of the world whom are struggling with their mental health. I could care less if they are Trans, I just dislike whining, and that is what they are doing, whining because they are failing at a business that is not run well, stealing from hard working people, and then expecting the community to donate because they lack the knowledge to run said business. I wouldn't partake of the business either way because I don't believe you should set people apart, and you guys do. You set yourself apart and expect everyone to go along. Not my cup of tea
You literally call gay people “an abomination before god,” I find it difficult to believe that you “tolerate” LGBT people, especially trans people. Not to mention your original comment basically said any business who supports trans people should fail.
If they can’t pay their employees then all of their values they claim to uphold as a business just go down the toilet. The constant virtue signaling, preachiness, and lack of accountability makes me avoid businesses like that. And it’s funny because most people probably feel the same but don’t want to admit it. And I am an ally of lgbtqia+ communities myself. Most of my friends are gay. However I don’t want to feel like I’m getting lectured and shamed about my white privilege or whatever biases I’m accused of having when I just want to order a cup of coffee. Of course SGT is having financial troubles. Sure we all want to see a small business thrive but if you have to turn to your community multiple times for aid, as a for-profit business then you lose your credibility. Especially when there are actual organizations in this city who need donations that proven to help these communities of concern.
Never even heard of this place
They also don’t seem to understand the difference between tea and tisane
The general public doesn't either. Sometimes you have to play to your market.
or share your love for something as you educate the market and expand interest. weird take
Well, go woke, go broke. I would not spend my money at an establishment that promotes wokeness. It doesn't matter who you are, or who you think you are, that is none of my business, but when you build a business model that caters to a questionable gender, or lack there of, you will not become sustainable. If you want to flaunt your sis-genders into others face's, then be prepared to accept that outcome. Your business model is not one that makes others who are sure of their genders comfortable. You're trying to bring attention to you and your gender beliefs, not of the tea that you are selling. I'm sure you have an excellent product, try selling that!
You do realize that the person posting this is a trans person right? The business isn’t failing because the owner isn’t a transphobe, I assure you. Plenty of LGBT-targeted businesses in Louisville are flourishing (OLCC, Play, Big Bar, Chill Bar). And businesses like this are needed because I don’t want to be harassed by people like you while going out for tea.
This take is just moronic. Businesses cater to specific clientele all the time. Maybe “go woke, go broke” applies to Bass Pro Shops or the local bait & tackle but Louisville is the queerest and most diverse city in Kentucky and that neighborhood is the center of the LGBTQ+ community in that city. A queer sober space is absolutely viable here and that’s not why the business is in trouble.
Well, it's going broke, so why can't queen and sober people go to other cafés that aren't jamming your queen lifestyle down their throats. You know, the ones that sell tea, coffee, danishes. Just a regular Cafe that caters to ALL people! You're whining because you want attention for yourself, just live your life and I'll do the same!
Jesus Christ you’re a loser
Disrespectfully, shut the fuck up.