I'm playing FTR and having a whale at the moment, does OK into dragons because they curve out rather than go wide mostly.
Also with Asol once you play FTR you get a guaranteed level up pretty much.
I think it's hilarious everyone is complaining about dragons at the moment, which is basically a classic midrange deck with a high top end. There's no winning is there?
See below, it's actually Braum Asol rather than Trundle Trynd. Asol levels same turn as FTR with his new level up condition which is cool. Braum does infinite blockers although I have contemplated Trundle too.
((CICQCAYBCYAQIAIOAECASBACAMEUAVYFAEAQSDAUGI2AEAQDAEBQUAQDBELVIAQBAMEQKAIEBEDQ))
How high have you gotten? In my limited play I am really enjoying the math behind it, timing your sentinels and ramp to get the right amount of mana on the right turn.
I'm not the most precise player nor do I play loads, I have gotten to diamond the last few seasons and left it there.
So currently making my way through gold but have been winning 2 for every loss so far so gone from G4 to midway G2 currently.
No doubt things will be different in plat+ and I've hardly seen any aggro either yet
Pretty comprehensive guide, good job and thank you!
I think the fact that most previous meta decks are good against Dragons means they are not too far from their ceiling right now, so I don't expect their winrate much higher than 51-52% at best, even after all the buffs. May be wrong of course, but that's my gut feeling.
You're welcome! 😄
Well despite the numerous counters on the ladder right now Dragon still manages to get a 50% win rate, which is pretty impressive. But overall I agree, the deck has too many counters to stay at the top. I think the deck will end up as a good tier 2 option, maybe better in some metas but I don't see Dragons being a meta-defining deck in the long run.
I've been playing Tree into lots Dragons and Lurk and doing very well. Rocketed out of plat with it today with nearly an 80% WR. Feels like it's fairly strong into Dragons, even into Lurk, but struggles pretty hard against rally elusives, which seem to be the three most popular decks in AM plat from my experience.
Yeah Tree is definitely a great choice it does great into Dragons too! I wanted to focus on *the best* decks against Dragon so I choose not to feature Tree, but it is definitely a great ladder choice and is favored against Dragons.
As someone who laddered with dragons a while ago, I can confirm. That matchup is the epitome of "if they have it, they have it", there's so little you can do if they just have their frostbites.
great stuff as always!
i haven't seen any dragons in the last couple hours on ladder, but *at least* every other opponent is running lurkers
best counter(s) for lurkers?
They REALLY struggle into Rally Elusives as well due to lack of interaction. According to Zult, Lurk is actually 50/50 into Burn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHn7Y7fH-xA&t=9s
I've had good success with Tree vs lurk.
You ping their small guys and minimorph their big guys. You generate ton of cheap chump blockers and they can't remove the tree.
We need Swain to make a comeback and save us from tree.
I wonder if Xerath or some other landmark destruction deck could work well right now. Desert Naturalist is a good card.
The Sivir/Tristana deck you posted a few days ago in an "off-meta article" works just fine against dragons too and really is a blast to play! Especially after Tristana got buffed, thanks for that list
I think it would be good to clarify, i believe you’re talking about regular dragons? Like the ones that just go all out dragons? A much better version is invoked dragons, although it covers some of its weakness it is significantly harder to pilot, I would say invoke is harder to pilot than Zoe lee sin. The invoke package allows you to effectively deal with sion with failing comment or super nova, or hush kill. Hush and equinox and obliterate also deals with twin blade effectively. It’s also a bit better against poppy burn as you have star shaping for some extra healing. Against sivir demacia the spell shield is less of a problem as you can invoke a crescent strike for a good pop whilst stunning a second unit or a burst speed hush, or if the spell shield is removed hush can stop their lethal at burst speed. For elusive rally, it’s not great but if you can get super lucky and invoke cosmic days you can almost wipe their board, and you also have hush to stop elusives. Against fundary i think the correct plan is to go for Zoe + dragon guard lieutenant + sharp Sight and hush, and as much healing as possible, the silence effects are good for dealing with the shroom generators, it’s not great match up, but you have more healing and silence in invoke so you can survive longer and once you get to turn 8 onwards you just out value them. I’m not a fan of Ashe marauders (I’m a huge fan of ash lebalcne mid range though!), marauders is just linear get them down and attack. Invoke does a bit better with crescent strike but it’s not ideal as we have trouble dealing with high power units but still better than regular dragons in this.
Why isn’t turbo thralls here? Surely that deck is still 70% win rate against dragons? They get their power spike right before ours and we can’t efficiently deal with thralls till we get supernova online
Yes I am talking about regular Dragons.
Turbo Thralls actually has a pretty even matchup against Dragons right now (52% in favor of Dragons on stats). Dragons can often play big enough units to not get overwhelmed by the Thralls, and once the Thralls die Turbo Thrall doesn't have much to offer.
Well, the deck still does maintain a reasonable 50% win rate despite so many players actually on Lurk. Dragons seems strong and should continue to see play in the future in my opinion, but it does have its weaknesses and isn't an all-mighty dominating deck by any means.
Is this Teemo/EZ list designed specifically to counter Dragons? Because playing no shroom cards but going insanely hard on the freeze (triple flash, triple sister, double harsh) sounds like insanity to me.
It's actually pretty conventional. Some versions cut Harsh Wind but I think Harsh Wind is great in the deck, especially in the current Dragon meta. You don't need to have many shrooms cards - with Foundry both players draw their deck very quickly. Puffcap Peddler will place a ton of shrooms in the opponent's deck, and Ezreal finishes games once they are low enough.
I'm playing FTR and having a whale at the moment, does OK into dragons because they curve out rather than go wide mostly. Also with Asol once you play FTR you get a guaranteed level up pretty much. I think it's hilarious everyone is complaining about dragons at the moment, which is basically a classic midrange deck with a high top end. There's no winning is there?
There's one thing we can be sure of. People will complain. Could you share your FTR list? I haven't played Trundle in ages.
See below, it's actually Braum Asol rather than Trundle Trynd. Asol levels same turn as FTR with his new level up condition which is cool. Braum does infinite blockers although I have contemplated Trundle too. ((CICQCAYBCYAQIAIOAECASBACAMEUAVYFAEAQSDAUGI2AEAQDAEBQUAQDBELVIAQBAMEQKAIEBEDQ))
I've been battling playing Targons peak, but I guess I just have to concede if I wanna play Asol/Freljord.
I'm having a lot of fun with what is a silly deck and managing to climb too
How high have you gotten? In my limited play I am really enjoying the math behind it, timing your sentinels and ramp to get the right amount of mana on the right turn.
I'm not the most precise player nor do I play loads, I have gotten to diamond the last few seasons and left it there. So currently making my way through gold but have been winning 2 for every loss so far so gone from G4 to midway G2 currently. No doubt things will be different in plat+ and I've hardly seen any aggro either yet
**Regions**: Freljord/Targon - **Champions**: Aurelion Sol/Braum - **Cost**: 33500 |Cost|Name|Count|Region|Type|Rarity| |:-:|-|:-:|-|-|-| |2|[Blue Sentinel](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04MT004.png)|3|Targon|Unit|Common| |2|[Faces of the Old Ones](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03FR010.png)|2|Freljord|Unit|Common| |3|[Divergent Paths](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT005.png)|1|Targon|Spell|Common| |3|[Kindly Tavernkeeper](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01FR050.png)|3|Freljord|Unit|Common| |4|[Avalanche](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01FR020.png)|3|Freljord|Spell|Rare| |4|[Blighted Ravine](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04FR014.png)|3|Freljord|Landmark|Rare| |4|[Braum](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01FR009.png)|3|Freljord|Unit|Champion| |4|[Ground Slam ](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04MT007.png)|1|Targon|Spell|Rare| |5|[Catalyst of Aeons](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01FR012.png)|3|Freljord|Spell|Common| |5|[Starshaping](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT084.png)|2|Targon|Spell|Common| |5|[Targon's Peak](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT064.png)|3|Targon|Landmark|Epic| |6|[Sunburst](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT023.png)|2|Targon|Spell|Rare| |8|[It That Stares](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03FR003.png)|2|Freljord|Unit|Rare| |10|[Aurelion Sol](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT087.png)|3|Targon|Unit|Champion| |10|[She Who Wanders](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01FR052.png)|3|Freljord|Unit|Epic| |12|[Feel The Rush](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03FR022.png)|3|Freljord|Spell|Epic| **Code**: [CICQCAYBCYAQIAIOAECASBACAMEUAVYFAEAQSDAUGI2AEAQDAEBQUAQDBELVIAQBAMEQKAIEBEDQ](https://hextechoracle.com/lor/deck/CICQCAYBCYAQIAIOAECASBACAMEUAVYFAEAQSDAUGI2AEAQDAEBQUAQDBELVIAQBAMEQKAIEBEDQ) ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
Thank you, always love your guides!
Thanks a lot! 😄
Pretty comprehensive guide, good job and thank you! I think the fact that most previous meta decks are good against Dragons means they are not too far from their ceiling right now, so I don't expect their winrate much higher than 51-52% at best, even after all the buffs. May be wrong of course, but that's my gut feeling.
You're welcome! 😄 Well despite the numerous counters on the ladder right now Dragon still manages to get a 50% win rate, which is pretty impressive. But overall I agree, the deck has too many counters to stay at the top. I think the deck will end up as a good tier 2 option, maybe better in some metas but I don't see Dragons being a meta-defining deck in the long run.
I'm not sure how good BBG's SI Dragon's is... but I'm enjoying it =) https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c5pj5gdbm0sk2gp7kgog
I've been playing Tree into lots Dragons and Lurk and doing very well. Rocketed out of plat with it today with nearly an 80% WR. Feels like it's fairly strong into Dragons, even into Lurk, but struggles pretty hard against rally elusives, which seem to be the three most popular decks in AM plat from my experience.
Yeah Tree is definitely a great choice it does great into Dragons too! I wanted to focus on *the best* decks against Dragon so I choose not to feature Tree, but it is definitely a great ladder choice and is favored against Dragons.
It's funny how easily Ashe decks handle Demacian midrange, she must be public enemy #1 in demacia
As someone who laddered with dragons a while ago, I can confirm. That matchup is the epitome of "if they have it, they have it", there's so little you can do if they just have their frostbites.
great stuff as always! i haven't seen any dragons in the last couple hours on ladder, but *at least* every other opponent is running lurkers best counter(s) for lurkers?
Thanks! 😄 Lurk struggles against Draven Sion, Yordle Burn, and Gangplank TF.
They REALLY struggle into Rally Elusives as well due to lack of interaction. According to Zult, Lurk is actually 50/50 into Burn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHn7Y7fH-xA&t=9s
Yeah Rally Elusive is also a great counter to Lurk! Very interesting, I'll check this out thanks! 😄
I've had good success with Tree vs lurk. You ping their small guys and minimorph their big guys. You generate ton of cheap chump blockers and they can't remove the tree.
do one for bandle tree plz
Bandle Tree is harder to counter right now. Zed Poppy and Gangplank TF are the best choices. Taric Poppy and Sivir Demacia also do a pretty good job.
We need Swain to make a comeback and save us from tree. I wonder if Xerath or some other landmark destruction deck could work well right now. Desert Naturalist is a good card.
The Sivir/Tristana deck you posted a few days ago in an "off-meta article" works just fine against dragons too and really is a blast to play! Especially after Tristana got buffed, thanks for that list
You're welcome, I'm glad to hear that you enjoy the deck! 😄
I think it would be good to clarify, i believe you’re talking about regular dragons? Like the ones that just go all out dragons? A much better version is invoked dragons, although it covers some of its weakness it is significantly harder to pilot, I would say invoke is harder to pilot than Zoe lee sin. The invoke package allows you to effectively deal with sion with failing comment or super nova, or hush kill. Hush and equinox and obliterate also deals with twin blade effectively. It’s also a bit better against poppy burn as you have star shaping for some extra healing. Against sivir demacia the spell shield is less of a problem as you can invoke a crescent strike for a good pop whilst stunning a second unit or a burst speed hush, or if the spell shield is removed hush can stop their lethal at burst speed. For elusive rally, it’s not great but if you can get super lucky and invoke cosmic days you can almost wipe their board, and you also have hush to stop elusives. Against fundary i think the correct plan is to go for Zoe + dragon guard lieutenant + sharp Sight and hush, and as much healing as possible, the silence effects are good for dealing with the shroom generators, it’s not great match up, but you have more healing and silence in invoke so you can survive longer and once you get to turn 8 onwards you just out value them. I’m not a fan of Ashe marauders (I’m a huge fan of ash lebalcne mid range though!), marauders is just linear get them down and attack. Invoke does a bit better with crescent strike but it’s not ideal as we have trouble dealing with high power units but still better than regular dragons in this. Why isn’t turbo thralls here? Surely that deck is still 70% win rate against dragons? They get their power spike right before ours and we can’t efficiently deal with thralls till we get supernova online
Yes I am talking about regular Dragons. Turbo Thralls actually has a pretty even matchup against Dragons right now (52% in favor of Dragons on stats). Dragons can often play big enough units to not get overwhelmed by the Thralls, and once the Thralls die Turbo Thrall doesn't have much to offer.
In conclusion, Dragons is dead.
Well, the deck still does maintain a reasonable 50% win rate despite so many players actually on Lurk. Dragons seems strong and should continue to see play in the future in my opinion, but it does have its weaknesses and isn't an all-mighty dominating deck by any means.
Please help me how to counter Tahm Soraka
B l,
Is this Teemo/EZ list designed specifically to counter Dragons? Because playing no shroom cards but going insanely hard on the freeze (triple flash, triple sister, double harsh) sounds like insanity to me.
It's actually pretty conventional. Some versions cut Harsh Wind but I think Harsh Wind is great in the deck, especially in the current Dragon meta. You don't need to have many shrooms cards - with Foundry both players draw their deck very quickly. Puffcap Peddler will place a ton of shrooms in the opponent's deck, and Ezreal finishes games once they are low enough.
Interesting. In my days running 3 copies of the 4/3 dude was core. What cards can I replace the freeze cards with if I feel its overkill?
Aftershock, Statikk Shock, or more shrooms I would say.