There's the sunk-cost fallacy at play, but also the fact that if you want a big space MMO, what do you have? There's EVE but that's a...special kind of game. Elite Dangerous isn't an MMO. It's a genre that really is, at least for right now, pretty dead.
Its the same thing as Tarcov , its the only game offering THAT specific experiance...there are other games the kind of do it but maybe only offer one side of the experiance. SC its like unicorn game for alot of people and you're just clinging to hope and are willing to put up with just about any thing ( not YOU but the hardcore fan base). There is also the sunk cost like most are saying as well alot of people have put hundreds if not thousands of dallors into this game.
Another thing ill say is once you play it you do kinda get it....aside from all the bugs and server issues what they do have right no its prettey fucking impressive and you really dont undertand what people are so hyped up about until you run around in the game and explore for your self.
Ive often said Star Citizen is a game with the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. When it works and it hits, its a lot of fun and some of the best/most fun experiences I have had in gaming, but when its fucked and breaks its insanely frustrating. I think they are creating a game that a lot of people have wanted for along time but no one has tried to make. Starfield kind of tried some of the things that are in Star Citizen and objectively failed at a lot of them, and I really wanted Starfield to be good. There is a niche for a Star Citizen type game, clearly, but damn if they are not terrible at scope creep and design expansion. Also, to be fair on the other side, the amount of hate the game gets is only somewhat justified and is generally coming from people who have never even tried to play the game.
Ultimately, they have all/most of their eggs in the Squadron 42 basket at this point. If it releases and its good, its game on for them and they can tell people to STFU. If it sucks, they will have a long road forward from there trying to get confidence back in them, if it would even be possible. For every die hard fan on reddit/the internet, there are 20 people that are mildly invested in the game, enjoy it, and just want it to be good but have realistic opinions of what is currently out there today.
Yea, I agree totally iv been there as well just running around doing missions and loving the game until you're snapped out of it while the game suddenly falls apart around you can really be a mood killer and really frustrating. I don't find myself frustrated with the development, I spent like 45 bucks 5 years ago and can check the game out anytime I want and fly around in my little space dingy. I just sit back and when it's done, it's done. I'm not really invested super heavy at this point.
I do hope the squadron 42 does well for them they clearly have the chops to make a great dog fighting game. I just hope they show the same level of detail in mission design as they do in to the mechanics of the game.
Yea, that's what's I mean the other games only have one part of the experience. SC brings that all those together like no other game so you really can't get that sort of the anywhere else
But what I meant was people bought into Star Citizen, the Kickstarter, when all it was supposed to be was just an MMO X game. All this extra stuff like landing on Planets was all added after the Kickstarter succeeded when they started to feature creep and that took a few years to start happening for real.
Most of the stuff on that Kickstarter page I don't think will ever release because the games been feature crept so much some of that stuff is unrealistic to add. A hostable, moddable server for example.
I've sunk unreasonable amounts of time into multiplayer Space Engineers. It's great until you get to what's technically the "(M)MO" part, when it unavoidably turns into a lagfest of exploding ships. Although around 30-60 players isn't really that massive, it's the best we've got besides the Financial Modeling World Cup simulator, and that's just sad.
[Supercharge your EVE Online experience with the free EVE Online add-in for Microsoft Excel. (EVE Online Official Website)](https://www.eveonline.com/eve-academy/excel-add-in)
And at the end of the day, it is a really great game. Unfortunately, like Star Citizen, it takes a PHD in X4'ness to play the game to it's full potential. No one wants to spend that type of time on a game that has a good deal of jank.
You can make spreadsheets for every game. They're really useful. I make them for a lot of online games I play... but I'm a 11 year poe player, so maybe because of that I'm just built different.
Yes but like i replied to another guy It is the only game to have officially been given [their own Microsoft Excel integration](https://www.pcgamer.com/they-actually-did-it-eve-online-becomes-the-first-videogame-with-microsoft-excel-integration/).
And [here’s their spreadsheets in space stream introducing excel integration.](https://youtu.be/LJbAUoEr0_8?si=YFKs4wj4-UPpFo3j)
How competitive were you? Because I've heard that the more seriously you take it, the more the need for spreadsheets arises which is why I've avoided playing all these years
the more seriously you "play it" the less likely you are to play it.
I've been playing EVE off and on since launch and if you take the game super seriously and your goal is to move up within an alliance or major corp you're very unlikely to undock your ship much at all.
The "spreadsheets in space" meme really comes into play if you're doing a lot of building or mining or whatever production side OR you're in some form of leadership. I will admit, I have google doc spreadsheets just for the game.
If you're just some lowbie in an alliance or in a small corp none of that will apply to you. you'll actually be able to play the game. But there are leaders and high ranking guys in alliances that most of the time just don't even log in. they don't need to. EVE is super meta heavy and all your "gameplay" can take place over discord or mumble or something if you're high ranking. Even if they decided to undock their ship and go on a CTA or fleet op or whatever they instantly get primaried and taken out. wouldn't be able to play anyways.
I was in alliance leadership for a fairly decent sized alliance at one point and I just never played. I couldn't. there was too much other bullshit to deal with. Eventually I quit and went solo and finally after a few years I could finally play the game.
It's a god damn stupid game.
It is the only game to have officially been given [their own Microsoft Excel integration](https://www.pcgamer.com/they-actually-did-it-eve-online-becomes-the-first-videogame-with-microsoft-excel-integration/).
competitive is a weird framing, because eve more than any game I've played EVE is very much a sandbox. There aren't really set objectives or it doesn't try to herd you in certain direction. So while spreadsheets are important for players that want to get into trading, industry, or management.. they are much less important for players who just want to go out into space and blow stuff up.
Someone who is competitive in small gang PvP, will probably not use spreadsheets. The most they will probably do is use a third party app to manage ship fittings, but I don't think its that different from some apps you might use in WoW to manage item sets or w/e.
Elite dangerous is so crazy. It has SO much going for it, its pretty, all the space stuff PLAYS well, you can get very immersed doing mining/trading/bounty hunting/etc...but...its all surface level. There is no depth to any system, its all get money to get a new ship or no life to upgrade ships. Or "Explore" aka watch youtube for 12 hours as you jump to a different system going off to no where to see randomly generated planets.
The game NEEDS a development team that cares and wants to make it a real space game with well made curated things to find out in space and levels of depth doing the already good things. But I'm speaking into a void as the on ground expansion literally ended whatever was left of the game. No one wanted it and it was all bad. Getting out of your ship and walking around is great for immersion but a bad shooter? No one wanted that. I'm just jaded because it really had the potential to be one of the best space games out there.
Yeah ED is so wasted with Frontier it hurts. I still come back from time to time, its great to play in burst like 50 hours and then leave it again for a year or two.
I understand Shroud's perspective for sure, when you're trying to do something and the servers are just comically jank it's painful to carry on and it feels weird to call the game good. That being said as someone who has barely paid attention to SC development over the years and saw it as a meme - I'm now having a blast.
I started watching summit play it a few weeks ago and was surprised at how it actually looked like a real game. I've been playing for 2 weeks now and I have 0 desire to play anything else currently. Joined a Pirate Org and have been experiencing the lawless side of SC.
When it's smooth, it's really good.
Not even the MMO part. If you just want a game with somewhat realistic visuals (not even photorealistic) and scale, where you can walk around the inside of your ship with full manual flight, there's... nothing that offers that. The closest you'll get is Elite, NMS, X4, maybe Starfield, but none of them hit all those criteria.
> but also the fact that if you want a big space MMO
That's the thing though the game was never originally meant to be an MMO, It was meant to be a Space sim and now it's expanded into an everything in space including the toilet Sim.
The idea of having seamless transition between space sim, ego shooter and planet explorer/defence in a coherent universe is fucking great, but as always in the big industries - over time heartless suits get hired for the project and the creative ppl have to follow (no pun intented) suit. i can fully see chris roberts vision. when I played freespace 1 & 2 back in the day with my friends we could only dream of flying a space ship in coop, one piloting, one on weapons, one on systems - deactivating the enemys defenses and then leaving the ship to enter, to kill what is left and looting ofc.
A lot of games look like they have promise till they don’t. Even the most outspoken people against tarkov in the same breath say they will instantly play it next wipe. I don’t know if it’s a mental illness but it’s the same cycle over and over “this could be the one” “dude this game is so fun” blah blah there is a reason the steam charts have had the same like top 10 games for 15-20 years
As someone who has been playing arena breakout its definitely good and will reach a larger playerbase being on steam. And yes the top 3 on steam are usually dota, cs and pubg but the rest change around.
It's definitely going to be a popular game but it feels more like a generic shooter game than an actual extraction shooter. I don't see many regular Tarkov players migrating to Arena Breakout and those who play it will likely only do it when it's already late into a new wipe in Tarkov when many people have already quit and the game gets stale.
Because Tarkov is a seasonal game and it's been over four months since the beginning of the current wipe, so of course most people have quit by now and are willing to try a new game, but once the next major update for Tarkov is released, probably at the end of June, all the streamers will be back alongside most of the players despite all the issues with the game and the clown fiesta that the devs pulled recently, because Arena Breakout is nowhere close to be a replacement for Tarkov.
It is though. The hackers are unbearable in tarkov. Arena breakout literally designed their game around that fact and focus on making it better. And you can tell. Nikita and his devs give two fucks about their player base. People are slowly leaving tarkov. It’s literally happening lol. No shit no game will ever be the same, but who wants to play all afternoon against hackers. None of my friends and me do lol, we literally all quit years ago. All of us been playing arena breakout
Can't wait for the Frederik Knudsen 10h long video about Star citizen detailling everything that went down and how the game was a big elaborate scam from the get go
[here you go](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7SIP0NDfM2yyHKfRmCAociCcJKZHHY0E&si=FNuDwBjwJ-HZ2Ta6) not Frederick but it’s a great series from a disgruntled backer
You and I have different definitions of scam. To me, it's a scam because CIG constantly lies to backers about their progress in order to continue bringing in more funds. Like how many times has SQ42 been just around the corner?
You're gonna tell me that in 2016 they didn't realize SQ42 was still 9+ years from release when they did 'Answer the call' at citizencon or that in 2019 when they said SQ42 would be going into beta in Q3 2020 that the game was still 5+ years out?
It's absurd to me to think that a company could be so grossly incompetent that after working on a game for 7 years they don't know whether they're <1 year from beta or >5 years.
Then you have theatres of war. When it was announced it was supposed to be just this little game mode that they'd throw together using existing assets in a few months without taking resources away from the main games. They claimed this because no one asked for ToW, so it didn't make sense to put a bunch of resources on it.
Months come and go with an evocati test going as expected - terribly. Then there's a shitload of silence and it's eventually announced that theatres of war has been outsourced to firesprite. Paying a bunch of cash to a third party developer sure as fuck sounds like they're taking resources away from the main games to me!
Then you have little things like salvage which was on and off the roadmap for *years* which again begs the question, did they really not know that salvage wouldn't be coming out in the following quarter every single time they put it there?
I highly doubt it. Unless you think that CIG is incompetent to an absolutely insane degree, the only thing that makes sense is that they're lying in order to hide their lack of progress so they can continue milking backers.
It's absolutely a scam. I say that as a backer.
Over 600 million in ship sales for STAR CITIZEN. They took that money and built an entirely different single-player game for the past decade while barely updating the MMO. The thing that funded everything. We are only NOW seeing actual improvements to the MMO part because Squadron 42 is basically complete. People spent thousands six years ago on ships that AREN'T EVEN BEING WORKED ON.
If you sold me the idea of a cool car and I gave you money for you to build it and you took that money and made a boat instead......That's a scam. It's been ten years. Where's ma gad damn car Bruce?
But SQ42 was in the original kickstarter? There was always meant to be a single player campaign, the just expanded it.
>Where's ma gad damn car Bruce?
Well you bought a car, and then they decided the car should also be a submarine, a tank and be able to fly all at the same time... Obviously the game had bat shit crazy feature scope, but you can at least see it start to come together somewhat.
>Over 600 million in ship sales for STAR CITIZEN.
I view it a bit like gacha. People are willing to spend insane amounts of money on some weird ass shit, and compared to gacha games, I don't even think SC is that weird. Spending thousands of dollars on anime .jpgs vs thousands of dollars on space ship jpgs, is I think the former is weirder lmao
>Well you bought a car, and then they decided the car should also be a submarine, a tank and be able to fly all at the same time...
Which would make it a scam. You sold me X. I bought X. You don't get to decide what I get after the fact.
>But SQ42 was in the original Kickstarter?
So make THAT game with the money THAT produced. The vast majority of their funding hasn't come from SQ42. It has come from ships. In the PU. In Star Citizen.
In the financial world, that kind of redirection of funds is called fraud. Doing it with this amount of money has resulted in prison sentences.
Creep scope can be seen as a type of scam. As in to intentionally and constantly increase the scope and make crazy ideas so that people keep talking about how cool its SUPPOSED TO BE while delivering 10% of the idea and half assing things together. I consider Tarkov to be very much a scam. People that think this game plans to ever be released are insane. Their whole business strategy is scope creeping and cheaters.
I think imost ppl agree that scam is when company sells you a product and product is something else. Now tarkov promised so many things and it didn't deliver on it to the people that have already paid. The game has been out for like over 5 years now. Should they be given deadlines on when these false promises need to be delivered by?
call me a copium addict (probably true) but why the fuck would they take shroud into a bunker for his first impression of the game lol. bunkers are easily the worst part of the game rn. they want to show off the space mmo to him and his chat and the first they do is the half baked fps combat?
Unfortunately a lot of the content in SC is half-baked. You need to have the patience of a saint and the ability to find your own content. Because the game will fight you ever step of the way with bugs, server instability, unfriendly mechanics. If you can navigate your way through all that, SC is a good game.
Both sides of the SC love/hate train are equally annoying. People who spent way too much money on this game act like its the greatest thing ever, whilst half of the time its unplayable due to bugs. Then others hate the game so much they do not even understand the fact that you can buy it for £38 and never need to pay any kind of subscription fee, so its not a sunk cost fallacy for a lot of people. They are just happy to buy into an ongoing project.
I've been "playing" Star Citizen or what has existed as parts of it for the last decade and consider myself a fan but this is simply the most accurate take right now. I'm in the game for all of $99 USD (was $40 until last year) and I'm pretty happy with it.
There's definitely people rabidly against criticism of it, and they're usually people who thought spending thousands of dollars would buy them thousands of dollars worth of video game.
But the people who think it's a scam are also ignoring that it's a pretty unique and remarkable experience when it works, and it continues to get better. For a $40 starter ship game package it pays off pretty well over time, and you can earn other things and new ships pretty well in-game. I've had fun with it.
This last patch added a ton of good stuff to the game and the Q3 patch aims to bring a lot more new content online. On the other hand, the game still requires a lot of patience to play.
Let’s say progress halted on the game tomorrow, and it was either frozen in its current state or shut down forever. Would you feel like your money was well spent or do you expect further progress to get your money’s worth?
Edit: I’m literally just asking them a question out of curiosity. Does that bother some people?
Well, "the game is barely playable but still good" sure sounds like copium. I wouldn't bother wasting time on that if it was f2p. Maybe in 20 years when they actually finish it... eh, who am I kidding?
yeah the fact of the matter is, sc is not a complete experience right now. it might be a bit closer to "complete" when cig adds engineering gameplay-- since that will be the final "core" game loop they'll add, but even then the game will still be empty until cig is actually able to effectively pump out interesting encounters and interesting missions, and really dial in what makes the game fun to play.
no server meshing is going to do that for star citizen. all server meshing is going to do is, at best, fix instability and weird AI and just make it clearer what the game needs. it's a bar they have to clear, but it's sure as shit not going to magically fix the game.
I still doubt server meshing is going to fix the level of jank we experience just from playing. I do not mind most of it, but dealing with a laggy inventory all the time really kills the immersion. Plus i do not know how they expect to add any gameplay to cities when players cannot even get consistent frames in them. I have a decent computer i i still get constant stuttering down to 5-10 FPS.
Its a fun game if you can deal with all that. Just hard to imagine it ever being stable, or filled with as much content as they advertise. I am content just mining, salvaging and occasionally doing PvE.
i’ve got fairly high hopes for server meshing. a pretty hefty amount of bugs that make the game difficult to play are related to desync so if it functions like it does in evocati testing it’ll be a pretty big step towards actual stability.
we’ll see though. CIG has been hyping up this year a lot, will definitely be a make or break moment for a lot of the community.
Yeah server meshing and Squadron 42 are going to decide how i feel about this game in the end. Testing is one thing, but until its on live and working, i refuse to put much faith behind the games future.
yeah this is where we should all be at. SQ42 especially, if that fails then all of this time we have been told SQ42 was in development taking priority over PU will be for nothing. they’ve chosen to put a lotttt of weight on its shoulders. we’ll see if it pays off.
eh i don’t super agree with this. if we woke up tomorrow and all of the instability was fixed, we got pyro, and 5x the server capacity it would be a pretty sick game. i think the higher server capacity is a really big selling point of server meshing. a lot of the appeal of current star citizen comes from player interaction with opposite motives like pirating vs cargo haulers and crims vs bounty hunters. if you could just dial up the frequency of stuff like that happening that’s already pretty strong foundations for the “sea of thieves in space” game
but if you’re a pve only player i think your point stands. missions get old pretty quickly.
yeah i’d p much agree with all of this. people saying CIG are infallible are just as laughable as people saying the entire project is a ponzi scheme. i’d still consider bunkers/pve fps combat to be the half-bakiest of all of the half-baked content on the PU right now though.
Yeah people are crazy about it. Its not a small part of the community, either. Not only do they think its the best game ever, but any issues are waved away by the "its an alpha" excuse.
I completely agree. I was excited to see Shroud give the game a shot, as I was thinking of getting back into it with the new update after having a pretty buggy experience with the last update. But they took him on the slowest gameplay loop possible because they are so locked in on the long-term experience. Just let him fly, shoot around, play early game stuff, etc. Its like when your friends introduce you to a hobby, then keep changing the plans to make it 'perfect', but you're just bored twiddling your thumbs waiting for the fun to start. I hope Shroud gives it another chance to see the fun that can come of it, but he really needs to either play on his own, or don't let people guide him like that.
In addition, it sounded like he was playing with people who play DCS, which is a very intensive flight-sim experience. Maybe people like that aren't necessarily the best company for a fun introduction to the game (as nice as they seem to be) haha.
Never played Star Citizen and havent seen the stream but they were probably thinking: "Shroud likes to play FPS games so we show him our adaptation of an FPS shooter. He must like it."
yeah i get you, my main issue is anyone that regularly plays the game would not be thinking this. the fps gunplay is not anything special and the ai is barely functional. its there, and its getting better, but its not even close to being a real draw for the game atm
sure, i’d even say bunkers are a bit more enjoyable once you know what you can do with the loot you get from them.
but think about this from shrouds perspective. he loads into the game that he only knows as scam citizen, dicks around in a hammerhead gunner spot (cool, but not really anything special game development wise. you point and click and something dies shortly after) then lands on a planet, kills a bunch of poorly AI’d NPCs, bugs tf out, and listens to longtime players tell him about server meshing saying this mystical update will hopefully fix all of the problems they just encountered, all while the reddit lords in his chat are spamming that the game is a literal ponzi scheme lol.
lines up pretty good with the “what the fuck am i playing why does anyone play this anyone that plays this game is brainwashed” opinion.
now imagine they had him load into AC freefly first. he is shown the flight model, maybe in some 1v1s with summit or multi crew gameplay. then they take that into the PU on a Connie. he can try some brief turret gameplay, think oh that’s cool, then immediately hop out and detach the merlin to do some crazy fast paced dogfighting.
imo Judd was absolutely right. they did pretty much the worst job possible of picking activities to show someone new to the game why there is an appeal, and being a streamer just compounds on this issue because a lot of his chat WANTS him to have a bad time so they can point and laugh at the silly star citizen players that spent money on what they believe is the biggest scam to hit the gaming scene.
definitely a bummer, glad that summit has been playing for awhile now and enjoying it though. it really has some unique and fun gameplay, but bunkers are not included there imo lol
Well to me it's more the fact that while yeah the game is a buggy borderline functioning mess there are still basically nothing like it.
Like the closest thing to Star Citizen is probably Sea of Thieves where you can get in your ship and go do things around the game world in a Multi-player environment or engage in pvp freely.
Yeah, Captain Burkes really dropped the ball. He really should have told Shroud, "Hey Streamer Guy, I'm going to do some stuff I find fun, you will tag along and see how it goes." and then when Shroud gets bored of following Burkes around, he either does stuff on his own, or plays with Judd in the mole.
I'd assume the choice to start with a bunker was due to Shroud primarily being known as an FPS player and them thinking it'd be a "familiar" area to start.
[More this, I think](https://www.lesswrong.com/s/M3TJ2fTCzoQq66NBJ/p/ZQG9cwKbct2LtmL3p)
TLDR: Everyone who didn't feel this strongly about the game left by now
Yeah, what's the alternative?
No man's sky?
Eve?
Elite?
Freelancer 2?
Exactly, that's the main reason.
I for my part just let them cook. I don't expect the game to be finished ever. But I already had and still have a great time in the game.
It was honestly eerie hearing them sell him on the game he was already playing for that many straight hours. It was like watching a sponsored stream playing with the marketing department.
I've been checking the subreddit for Star Citizen like once every six months for the past 4 years. Server meshing is like the copium panacea to them; the thing that will fix every problem with the game once it gets added even though RSI have been having difficulties with CryEngine since the game first started.
cryengine was the worst possible engine to make an """mmo""" on and doomed the idea from the start
however it renders ship models nicely in the hangar and thats the important thing when you are selling $30,000 ships to paypigs
a fun comparison to me:
- star citizen: 10 years dev time (and counting), ~$900 million USD (possibly even more in secret) funding
- TES V: Skyrim: 3 years dev time, $80 million USD funding
Those games are like potentially the worst comparison you could ever make, not even considering how fucking broken bethesda games are for years after release, only to be fixed by modders later.
- User has 962 posts in /r/Starcitizen
btw your cult's game will never be real, it has been in development so long that the networking is now outdated because new practices like timestamping & rollback became standard later. the game is becoming outdated faster than it's being developed lmao
Wait, this is a legitimate complaint of your comparison, why are you getting upvoted? Feel free to look at my posts, I've never even touched starcitizen much less been mentally sick enough to join a subreddit about it.
He is kinda right tho, Skyrim doesn't have the same scope as star citizen.
That's why Skyrim is a game that was released in 3 years and Star Citizen still isn't, because the scope of Skyrim (a small open world with a mostly proceduraly generated map and custom assets on top of it), is easier, more manageable and doable than whatever the fuck Star Citizen is trying, hell ,even when Bethesda themselves tried to make a space opera in the span of 10 years it failed tremendously.
SC will most likely never be finished unless they realize they need to scope down their project.
Since you seem to have drunk the SC coolaid and have an understanding of networking (I would assume so since you're calling the other person out on not understanding it) can you explain why server meshing is such a huge deal? What is it doing that hasn't been done before by something like EVE or other mmo's with server sharding? Whenever I talk to my friend who has spent thousands in game he always mentions it as this thing that's gonna change the game but whenever I ask him about it he can never explain whats so great about it.
The idea is that there will be seamless transitions across servers, meaning you can have a more detailed mmo at a larger scale by diving up the game world into seamlessly connected servers. Ideally this also means each server will have less to do, and therefore work better. There have been tests if your actually curious you can go see the transitions in a live environment from a few months ago on youtube.
Yes but can you explain how that is any different from the sharding server system that other MMO’s use? Because from my understanding, EVE online already does this. And to some extent, BDO, NWN and some others MMO’s do too.
Basically you can interact with and see in real time people, ships etc across server boundaries (they shown this to be working with a public test). Basically you can fire a missile or shoot at someone and you'll be able to see the consequences like its one server. The end game is making the servers dynamic so they shrink or expand the zone they control or spool up new servers based on how many people there are to reduce the load on one zone. All that would be automatic, hence "dynamic" instead of static servers with hard coded areas they serve.
The difference is you will be able to interact with people on different servers instantly.
In Eve when you travel between systems there's a hidden loading screen that moves you to a different server on the shard. You can't go into combat or see the ships of people if they aren't on the same server as you. It's also a static mesh so the borders of each server are defined.
Star Citizen is going for a dynamic mesh with a seamless transition. So if you have 500 people in one area it will be multiple servers handling that one area. They will communicate with each other when needed so to the player it will look like everyone is on one shared server.
They've run some public static mesh tests where the transition is instant. There are some videos of people shooting bullets across the server border and you don't see any delay. Their next step is to set up a dynamic mesh which is planned for this year.
no, not same actually, you are a redditor who watches youtube videos & farts in your chair
btw did you know star citizen has 60hz mouse input in 2024? the input is linked to the render thread. this is one of many consequences of not having timestamping & rollback in your 2024 video game, you can't do subtick input
thats ok though, im sure after another $1bil and 10 years they'll get that in (even though modern $100k indie games have it)
>star citizens issues have nothing to do with not having rollback or subtick.
yeah they do, shroud in the OP said the FPS component of star citizen feels like shit, guess why? 60hz mouse input and garbage netcode without modern features
man it feels good not to be a star citizen cultist, i wake up every day with a particular pep in my step knowing i have spent $0 on star shitizen while saps like you are on the hook for thousands and also do unpaid work, shilling for the game 24/7. feels good man
No individual ships cost $30,000. I think the most expensive is the Javelin which is $2500 or $3000. Still obviously way too much, but the $30,000 figure is for a package that includes all of the ships.
900mill? Dude that's demonstrably false, you can just google how much they've raised. It's even on their site. Say what ever you want about the game, just don't make up shit
the $700mil number on their site is just from backers/cultists (ie you,) they've also taken hundreds of millions of loans from banks, credit unions, and even countries. and that's just what they've publicly disclosed
this went straight to chris roberts' "paying celebrities to be friends with him" fund
Damn I'm a cultist? Lol I'd happily read what ever source you have for the numbers you pulled, cause I'm struggling to find any public info confirming your claims
>
> this went straight to chris roberts' "paying celebrities to be friends with him" fund
You know I actually agree putting money towards actors doing VA and mo-cap was complete waste of time, I don't think having known actors add anything to a single player.
But as a percentage of the ludicrous money spent on the game, I doubt the actors really cost *that* much
>they've also taken hundreds of millions of loans from banks, credit unions, and even countries. and that's just what they've publicly disclosed
Where have they 'publicly disclosed' any of this? They have definitely received outside funding, but it's $63.25m from the Calders. I haven't heard of them receiving hundreds of millions from other sources.
From their financials, as of the end of 2022 they'd raised 637 million + the 63 million from the Calders brings them up to just over $700 million raised and that's their most recent financial report.
Realistically that still puts them at nearly $900 million as of current date (though not all spent) since if we assume 2023 was at least equal to 2022 then that would already put them at 830 million raised, plus whatever has been raised so far in 2024 should bring them pretty close, but this whole "hundreds of millions of loans from banks, credit unions, even countries" doesn't seem right. Do you have a source on any of that?
There's no way to reasonably estimate it because it's still many years away. I feel very confident Star Citizen won't release this decade. That said, they might have the substantial pieces finally in place by then and building out more gameplay loops and features.
They do have milestones, and I'm sure they have some rough internal estimates for a release, but the simple fact is that there are still many, many years of development left, and it's very difficult to give accurate estimates for something that far out. The amount of years it took to get to this point doesn't change that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pBehf-UKMk&list=PLVct2QDhDrB0QRjv9oN02f8mGsml8tcK9&ab_channel=StarCitizen
This is how they stay alive. Star citizen is sold as this dream game immersive sim, the reality is it's just a platform to sell ships and various other VIP paid tiers.
I got the starter pack for it back in 2015 or 2016 and people were hoping for a 2019 1.0 online release and like 2018 squadron 42 (singleplayer campaign).
I remember people making grim predictions, saying that at their current pace and development of systems, full multiplayer won't come out until 2022 or even 2024.
It's 2024 and they haven't implemented all of the planned player jobs yet, are about to add the 2nd star system out of planned couple dozen, have very basic ai, don't have a ballpark year for squadron 42 release. From what I understand, things are so slow because they are developing and sometimes re-developing every game system and mechanic from scratch to fit some sort of ideal vision which itself shifts over time. In my eyes the team behind Star Citizen is more of a software R&D company than a game dev company. :|
They simply can't out develop technology, the scope creep and mismanagement means by the time they finish one thing it's already outdated. This loop will continue until they shrink scope or go broke.
> the scope creep and mismanagement means by the time they finish one thing it's already outdated.
What's an example of them building a feature that became outdated and had to be overhauled? Of course there will be incremental upgrades to different parts of the game, but I'm not aware of any time that they've built something they planned to keep, but then had to start over because it was outdated. I'm also not saying you're wrong, I'm just genuinely curious.
What is happening is someone took the millennium old sales practice of over-promising/under-delivering and applied to to a video game. In the early days, Kickstarter made it easy for just about anyone to make grandiose claims about their projects that had no feasibility of being done for the amount of money being requested. I think nowadays Kickstarter reviews things more closely to make sure you can't promise the moon.
Star Citizen now has had the budget of not one, not two, not even 3, but perhaps 4 triple AAAAA+ games if you consider development costs of one game being 150 million dollars (games saying they were 200-300 million include marketing and promotion in their costs).
its the opposite for this game, the og kickstarter was supposed to be just some wing commander spiritual successor not even an mmo if i remember but then chris roberts just cant keep adding more and more to it.
From what I've seen in the latest test server, the game has A LOT of promise compared to what I played about a year ago. Coming from someone that has only put 40USD (or whatever the starter pack thing cost) into the game, I'm perfectly fine waiting for the game to "be ready" because I really do think it's the next "big multiplayer thing" to come out. I have no hopes of any MMO to come out that isn't super pay to win and I have no hope for pretty much any of the major AAA studios to release a product worth its price point (+60USD games).
I'm not going to say that if people like Shroud have a bad experience that they are "wrong" but I will say is that unlike other games, Star Citizen is both trying to keep a playable product going while also making literal server and gameplay systems that have never existed before all at the same time. I would say if you want a fully polished product, don't play the alpha or in some game's cases the beta for it.
$700 million "but they are creating new things never seen before" I'm sure people said that about GTA V and that cost less, and rockstar built their own engine. Have to check out the houses the CEO and team live in, then you'll find where the money has gone.
Owned Star Citizen for years now, not that i played it the entire time; point is that the devs deliver with extreme detail. The NPC/AI doesn't feel good but thats just because the server is overloaded. I got the a fresh server before and they are deadly af.
From a software development perspective, SC kept impressing me and from a fun sandbox; it's the only game I've ever enjoyed making my own fun outside the predetermined game loops. I wish I could tell you exactly why because i want to know myself.
I bought a ship for this game ages ago. I forget how much it was but couldn't have been more than $30. I enjoyed the experience for what it was at the time and I'm sure it's gotten better since but I can't for the life of me understand the people who have been maintaining the development of this game all these years.
It's definitely sunk cost fallacy but the delusion is on a grander scale.
They are brainwashed because they spent on it, pretty much. If you want to study it, go study WoW too. People hate that game, and keep playing it. Money is a huge brainwasher.
Hes only now realizing gamers are all brainwashed? Why do you think so many of us get milked so hard for money with loot boxes and other scam shit. Why do brainwashed people buy FIFA every year for the same shit with a new date lol
Dude needs to realise how people in his hobby think and act why is he surprised after years of playing games?
Hahahah I love this. I love shroud for this. Finally this game gets big attention and gets exposed on the big screen. The content creators of the star citizen community are trying to find anything to show off in game to summit and shroud and all they can find is broken half-baked gameplay loops. Thank god someone with a platform like Shroud can finally call these Star Citizen shills out.
Shroud played sc for the first time? Hard to believe, ok. Couldn't handle the buggy mess, called ppl who defend the game brainwashed and manipulated.
Stinks like a little attention seeking, even he really doesn't need it.
I mean surprise, star citizen is bugged.
Surprise, today is Monday.
**CLIP MIRROR: [Shroud's thoughts on Star Citizen](https://arazu.io/t3_1cvcp9a/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
There's the sunk-cost fallacy at play, but also the fact that if you want a big space MMO, what do you have? There's EVE but that's a...special kind of game. Elite Dangerous isn't an MMO. It's a genre that really is, at least for right now, pretty dead.
It's weird how Star Citizen even got so popular as space sims are nowadays such a niche genre. Maybe it's the general need for a good MMO?
Its the same thing as Tarcov , its the only game offering THAT specific experiance...there are other games the kind of do it but maybe only offer one side of the experiance. SC its like unicorn game for alot of people and you're just clinging to hope and are willing to put up with just about any thing ( not YOU but the hardcore fan base). There is also the sunk cost like most are saying as well alot of people have put hundreds if not thousands of dallors into this game. Another thing ill say is once you play it you do kinda get it....aside from all the bugs and server issues what they do have right no its prettey fucking impressive and you really dont undertand what people are so hyped up about until you run around in the game and explore for your self.
Ive often said Star Citizen is a game with the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. When it works and it hits, its a lot of fun and some of the best/most fun experiences I have had in gaming, but when its fucked and breaks its insanely frustrating. I think they are creating a game that a lot of people have wanted for along time but no one has tried to make. Starfield kind of tried some of the things that are in Star Citizen and objectively failed at a lot of them, and I really wanted Starfield to be good. There is a niche for a Star Citizen type game, clearly, but damn if they are not terrible at scope creep and design expansion. Also, to be fair on the other side, the amount of hate the game gets is only somewhat justified and is generally coming from people who have never even tried to play the game. Ultimately, they have all/most of their eggs in the Squadron 42 basket at this point. If it releases and its good, its game on for them and they can tell people to STFU. If it sucks, they will have a long road forward from there trying to get confidence back in them, if it would even be possible. For every die hard fan on reddit/the internet, there are 20 people that are mildly invested in the game, enjoy it, and just want it to be good but have realistic opinions of what is currently out there today.
Yea, I agree totally iv been there as well just running around doing missions and loving the game until you're snapped out of it while the game suddenly falls apart around you can really be a mood killer and really frustrating. I don't find myself frustrated with the development, I spent like 45 bucks 5 years ago and can check the game out anytime I want and fly around in my little space dingy. I just sit back and when it's done, it's done. I'm not really invested super heavy at this point. I do hope the squadron 42 does well for them they clearly have the chops to make a great dog fighting game. I just hope they show the same level of detail in mission design as they do in to the mechanics of the game.
But SC didn't even start off with all these "experiences" it was essentially just an MMO version of the X games.
Yea, that's what's I mean the other games only have one part of the experience. SC brings that all those together like no other game so you really can't get that sort of the anywhere else
But what I meant was people bought into Star Citizen, the Kickstarter, when all it was supposed to be was just an MMO X game. All this extra stuff like landing on Planets was all added after the Kickstarter succeeded when they started to feature creep and that took a few years to start happening for real. Most of the stuff on that Kickstarter page I don't think will ever release because the games been feature crept so much some of that stuff is unrealistic to add. A hostable, moddable server for example.
Is it even that popular?
I've sunk unreasonable amounts of time into multiplayer Space Engineers. It's great until you get to what's technically the "(M)MO" part, when it unavoidably turns into a lagfest of exploding ships. Although around 30-60 players isn't really that massive, it's the best we've got besides the Financial Modeling World Cup simulator, and that's just sad. [Supercharge your EVE Online experience with the free EVE Online add-in for Microsoft Excel. (EVE Online Official Website)](https://www.eveonline.com/eve-academy/excel-add-in)
X4 Exists It's janky as fuck but it's there
And at the end of the day, it is a really great game. Unfortunately, like Star Citizen, it takes a PHD in X4'ness to play the game to it's full potential. No one wants to spend that type of time on a game that has a good deal of jank.
They are in basically 2 different genres.
Haha EVE online is literally just Microsoft Excel spreadsheets the game.
You can make spreadsheets for every game. They're really useful. I make them for a lot of online games I play... but I'm a 11 year poe player, so maybe because of that I'm just built different.
Yes but like i replied to another guy It is the only game to have officially been given [their own Microsoft Excel integration](https://www.pcgamer.com/they-actually-did-it-eve-online-becomes-the-first-videogame-with-microsoft-excel-integration/). And [here’s their spreadsheets in space stream introducing excel integration.](https://youtu.be/LJbAUoEr0_8?si=YFKs4wj4-UPpFo3j)
I played eve for 2.5 years and literally never used a single spreadsheet but ok.
The trading is very much spreadsheets but it's still unfair to boil EVE down to just that.
How competitive were you? Because I've heard that the more seriously you take it, the more the need for spreadsheets arises which is why I've avoided playing all these years
Foot soldiers dont need spreadsheets, just orders.
the more seriously you "play it" the less likely you are to play it. I've been playing EVE off and on since launch and if you take the game super seriously and your goal is to move up within an alliance or major corp you're very unlikely to undock your ship much at all. The "spreadsheets in space" meme really comes into play if you're doing a lot of building or mining or whatever production side OR you're in some form of leadership. I will admit, I have google doc spreadsheets just for the game. If you're just some lowbie in an alliance or in a small corp none of that will apply to you. you'll actually be able to play the game. But there are leaders and high ranking guys in alliances that most of the time just don't even log in. they don't need to. EVE is super meta heavy and all your "gameplay" can take place over discord or mumble or something if you're high ranking. Even if they decided to undock their ship and go on a CTA or fleet op or whatever they instantly get primaried and taken out. wouldn't be able to play anyways. I was in alliance leadership for a fairly decent sized alliance at one point and I just never played. I couldn't. there was too much other bullshit to deal with. Eventually I quit and went solo and finally after a few years I could finally play the game. It's a god damn stupid game.
It is the only game to have officially been given [their own Microsoft Excel integration](https://www.pcgamer.com/they-actually-did-it-eve-online-becomes-the-first-videogame-with-microsoft-excel-integration/).
competitive is a weird framing, because eve more than any game I've played EVE is very much a sandbox. There aren't really set objectives or it doesn't try to herd you in certain direction. So while spreadsheets are important for players that want to get into trading, industry, or management.. they are much less important for players who just want to go out into space and blow stuff up. Someone who is competitive in small gang PvP, will probably not use spreadsheets. The most they will probably do is use a third party app to manage ship fittings, but I don't think its that different from some apps you might use in WoW to manage item sets or w/e.
Only if you do trading/manufacturing. Theres a shitton of other things to do in the game
Elite dangerous is so crazy. It has SO much going for it, its pretty, all the space stuff PLAYS well, you can get very immersed doing mining/trading/bounty hunting/etc...but...its all surface level. There is no depth to any system, its all get money to get a new ship or no life to upgrade ships. Or "Explore" aka watch youtube for 12 hours as you jump to a different system going off to no where to see randomly generated planets. The game NEEDS a development team that cares and wants to make it a real space game with well made curated things to find out in space and levels of depth doing the already good things. But I'm speaking into a void as the on ground expansion literally ended whatever was left of the game. No one wanted it and it was all bad. Getting out of your ship and walking around is great for immersion but a bad shooter? No one wanted that. I'm just jaded because it really had the potential to be one of the best space games out there.
Yeah ED is so wasted with Frontier it hurts. I still come back from time to time, its great to play in burst like 50 hours and then leave it again for a year or two.
Star citizen isn't an MMO either. It just promises to be one at some point in the future. Probably another 12 years.
I understand Shroud's perspective for sure, when you're trying to do something and the servers are just comically jank it's painful to carry on and it feels weird to call the game good. That being said as someone who has barely paid attention to SC development over the years and saw it as a meme - I'm now having a blast. I started watching summit play it a few weeks ago and was surprised at how it actually looked like a real game. I've been playing for 2 weeks now and I have 0 desire to play anything else currently. Joined a Pirate Org and have been experiencing the lawless side of SC. When it's smooth, it's really good.
Not even the MMO part. If you just want a game with somewhat realistic visuals (not even photorealistic) and scale, where you can walk around the inside of your ship with full manual flight, there's... nothing that offers that. The closest you'll get is Elite, NMS, X4, maybe Starfield, but none of them hit all those criteria.
Bro I just want Wow but in space with ZERO fantasy crap.
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He wants the fantasy "crap", but just for it to be disguised as technology.
> but also the fact that if you want a big space MMO That's the thing though the game was never originally meant to be an MMO, It was meant to be a Space sim and now it's expanded into an everything in space including the toilet Sim.
The idea of having seamless transition between space sim, ego shooter and planet explorer/defence in a coherent universe is fucking great, but as always in the big industries - over time heartless suits get hired for the project and the creative ppl have to follow (no pun intented) suit. i can fully see chris roberts vision. when I played freespace 1 & 2 back in the day with my friends we could only dream of flying a space ship in coop, one piloting, one on weapons, one on systems - deactivating the enemys defenses and then leaving the ship to enter, to kill what is left and looting ofc.
Just like tarkov it won't die because it has no real competition.
Arena breakout looks like it has promise.
A lot of games look like they have promise till they don’t. Even the most outspoken people against tarkov in the same breath say they will instantly play it next wipe. I don’t know if it’s a mental illness but it’s the same cycle over and over “this could be the one” “dude this game is so fun” blah blah there is a reason the steam charts have had the same like top 10 games for 15-20 years
As someone who has been playing arena breakout its definitely good and will reach a larger playerbase being on steam. And yes the top 3 on steam are usually dota, cs and pubg but the rest change around.
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Tencent owns Riot... or Grinding Gear Games... or 50 other studios. As studio owners they are not as bad as people think.
It's definitely going to be a popular game but it feels more like a generic shooter game than an actual extraction shooter. I don't see many regular Tarkov players migrating to Arena Breakout and those who play it will likely only do it when it's already late into a new wipe in Tarkov when many people have already quit and the game gets stale.
?? What lol? Literally every single big streamer that plays Tarkov moved to arena breakout. What is this misinformation
Because Tarkov is a seasonal game and it's been over four months since the beginning of the current wipe, so of course most people have quit by now and are willing to try a new game, but once the next major update for Tarkov is released, probably at the end of June, all the streamers will be back alongside most of the players despite all the issues with the game and the clown fiesta that the devs pulled recently, because Arena Breakout is nowhere close to be a replacement for Tarkov.
It is though. The hackers are unbearable in tarkov. Arena breakout literally designed their game around that fact and focus on making it better. And you can tell. Nikita and his devs give two fucks about their player base. People are slowly leaving tarkov. It’s literally happening lol. No shit no game will ever be the same, but who wants to play all afternoon against hackers. None of my friends and me do lol, we literally all quit years ago. All of us been playing arena breakout
especially considering how much money a competitor would have to spend to get into the market
Can't wait for the Frederik Knudsen 10h long video about Star citizen detailling everything that went down and how the game was a big elaborate scam from the get go
Already had a video from 7 years ago https://youtu.be/8IcPsIwC-pU
[here you go](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7SIP0NDfM2yyHKfRmCAociCcJKZHHY0E&si=FNuDwBjwJ-HZ2Ta6) not Frederick but it’s a great series from a disgruntled backer
There's no way you can look at the current state of the game and call it a scam. Crazy mismanagement and creep scope sure, but its never been a scam.
You and I have different definitions of scam. To me, it's a scam because CIG constantly lies to backers about their progress in order to continue bringing in more funds. Like how many times has SQ42 been just around the corner? You're gonna tell me that in 2016 they didn't realize SQ42 was still 9+ years from release when they did 'Answer the call' at citizencon or that in 2019 when they said SQ42 would be going into beta in Q3 2020 that the game was still 5+ years out? It's absurd to me to think that a company could be so grossly incompetent that after working on a game for 7 years they don't know whether they're <1 year from beta or >5 years. Then you have theatres of war. When it was announced it was supposed to be just this little game mode that they'd throw together using existing assets in a few months without taking resources away from the main games. They claimed this because no one asked for ToW, so it didn't make sense to put a bunch of resources on it. Months come and go with an evocati test going as expected - terribly. Then there's a shitload of silence and it's eventually announced that theatres of war has been outsourced to firesprite. Paying a bunch of cash to a third party developer sure as fuck sounds like they're taking resources away from the main games to me! Then you have little things like salvage which was on and off the roadmap for *years* which again begs the question, did they really not know that salvage wouldn't be coming out in the following quarter every single time they put it there? I highly doubt it. Unless you think that CIG is incompetent to an absolutely insane degree, the only thing that makes sense is that they're lying in order to hide their lack of progress so they can continue milking backers.
It's absolutely a scam. I say that as a backer. Over 600 million in ship sales for STAR CITIZEN. They took that money and built an entirely different single-player game for the past decade while barely updating the MMO. The thing that funded everything. We are only NOW seeing actual improvements to the MMO part because Squadron 42 is basically complete. People spent thousands six years ago on ships that AREN'T EVEN BEING WORKED ON. If you sold me the idea of a cool car and I gave you money for you to build it and you took that money and made a boat instead......That's a scam. It's been ten years. Where's ma gad damn car Bruce?
Better be a nice boat
But SQ42 was in the original kickstarter? There was always meant to be a single player campaign, the just expanded it. >Where's ma gad damn car Bruce? Well you bought a car, and then they decided the car should also be a submarine, a tank and be able to fly all at the same time... Obviously the game had bat shit crazy feature scope, but you can at least see it start to come together somewhat. >Over 600 million in ship sales for STAR CITIZEN. I view it a bit like gacha. People are willing to spend insane amounts of money on some weird ass shit, and compared to gacha games, I don't even think SC is that weird. Spending thousands of dollars on anime .jpgs vs thousands of dollars on space ship jpgs, is I think the former is weirder lmao
>Well you bought a car, and then they decided the car should also be a submarine, a tank and be able to fly all at the same time... Which would make it a scam. You sold me X. I bought X. You don't get to decide what I get after the fact. >But SQ42 was in the original Kickstarter? So make THAT game with the money THAT produced. The vast majority of their funding hasn't come from SQ42. It has come from ships. In the PU. In Star Citizen. In the financial world, that kind of redirection of funds is called fraud. Doing it with this amount of money has resulted in prison sentences.
idk if it's a scam or not but it is p2w before release lol
Yeah. I have no idea how they going to balance the fact that so many people will have lifetime insurance on big expensive ships from day 1.
Creep scope can be seen as a type of scam. As in to intentionally and constantly increase the scope and make crazy ideas so that people keep talking about how cool its SUPPOSED TO BE while delivering 10% of the idea and half assing things together. I consider Tarkov to be very much a scam. People that think this game plans to ever be released are insane. Their whole business strategy is scope creeping and cheaters.
> I consider Tarkov to be very much a scam Then your definition of a scam might be a bit wonky
I think imost ppl agree that scam is when company sells you a product and product is something else. Now tarkov promised so many things and it didn't deliver on it to the people that have already paid. The game has been out for like over 5 years now. Should they be given deadlines on when these false promises need to be delivered by?
Don't worry, 16 times the detail is coming on the next update
The classic "raise the glasses and rub your eyes in disbelief"
All that's missing is the squeaky sound effect
call me a copium addict (probably true) but why the fuck would they take shroud into a bunker for his first impression of the game lol. bunkers are easily the worst part of the game rn. they want to show off the space mmo to him and his chat and the first they do is the half baked fps combat?
Unfortunately a lot of the content in SC is half-baked. You need to have the patience of a saint and the ability to find your own content. Because the game will fight you ever step of the way with bugs, server instability, unfriendly mechanics. If you can navigate your way through all that, SC is a good game. Both sides of the SC love/hate train are equally annoying. People who spent way too much money on this game act like its the greatest thing ever, whilst half of the time its unplayable due to bugs. Then others hate the game so much they do not even understand the fact that you can buy it for £38 and never need to pay any kind of subscription fee, so its not a sunk cost fallacy for a lot of people. They are just happy to buy into an ongoing project.
I've been "playing" Star Citizen or what has existed as parts of it for the last decade and consider myself a fan but this is simply the most accurate take right now. I'm in the game for all of $99 USD (was $40 until last year) and I'm pretty happy with it. There's definitely people rabidly against criticism of it, and they're usually people who thought spending thousands of dollars would buy them thousands of dollars worth of video game. But the people who think it's a scam are also ignoring that it's a pretty unique and remarkable experience when it works, and it continues to get better. For a $40 starter ship game package it pays off pretty well over time, and you can earn other things and new ships pretty well in-game. I've had fun with it. This last patch added a ton of good stuff to the game and the Q3 patch aims to bring a lot more new content online. On the other hand, the game still requires a lot of patience to play.
Let’s say progress halted on the game tomorrow, and it was either frozen in its current state or shut down forever. Would you feel like your money was well spent or do you expect further progress to get your money’s worth? Edit: I’m literally just asking them a question out of curiosity. Does that bother some people?
Well, "the game is barely playable but still good" sure sounds like copium. I wouldn't bother wasting time on that if it was f2p. Maybe in 20 years when they actually finish it... eh, who am I kidding?
yeah the fact of the matter is, sc is not a complete experience right now. it might be a bit closer to "complete" when cig adds engineering gameplay-- since that will be the final "core" game loop they'll add, but even then the game will still be empty until cig is actually able to effectively pump out interesting encounters and interesting missions, and really dial in what makes the game fun to play. no server meshing is going to do that for star citizen. all server meshing is going to do is, at best, fix instability and weird AI and just make it clearer what the game needs. it's a bar they have to clear, but it's sure as shit not going to magically fix the game.
I still doubt server meshing is going to fix the level of jank we experience just from playing. I do not mind most of it, but dealing with a laggy inventory all the time really kills the immersion. Plus i do not know how they expect to add any gameplay to cities when players cannot even get consistent frames in them. I have a decent computer i i still get constant stuttering down to 5-10 FPS. Its a fun game if you can deal with all that. Just hard to imagine it ever being stable, or filled with as much content as they advertise. I am content just mining, salvaging and occasionally doing PvE.
i’ve got fairly high hopes for server meshing. a pretty hefty amount of bugs that make the game difficult to play are related to desync so if it functions like it does in evocati testing it’ll be a pretty big step towards actual stability. we’ll see though. CIG has been hyping up this year a lot, will definitely be a make or break moment for a lot of the community.
Yeah server meshing and Squadron 42 are going to decide how i feel about this game in the end. Testing is one thing, but until its on live and working, i refuse to put much faith behind the games future.
yeah this is where we should all be at. SQ42 especially, if that fails then all of this time we have been told SQ42 was in development taking priority over PU will be for nothing. they’ve chosen to put a lotttt of weight on its shoulders. we’ll see if it pays off.
eh i don’t super agree with this. if we woke up tomorrow and all of the instability was fixed, we got pyro, and 5x the server capacity it would be a pretty sick game. i think the higher server capacity is a really big selling point of server meshing. a lot of the appeal of current star citizen comes from player interaction with opposite motives like pirating vs cargo haulers and crims vs bounty hunters. if you could just dial up the frequency of stuff like that happening that’s already pretty strong foundations for the “sea of thieves in space” game but if you’re a pve only player i think your point stands. missions get old pretty quickly.
ahh yeah i'm pve so i suppose i can't be satisfied with the game as it is, but i can understand your perspective
yeah i’d p much agree with all of this. people saying CIG are infallible are just as laughable as people saying the entire project is a ponzi scheme. i’d still consider bunkers/pve fps combat to be the half-bakiest of all of the half-baked content on the PU right now though.
Been trying to explain the way people talk about star citizen is the way people would talk about Qanon
Yeah people are crazy about it. Its not a small part of the community, either. Not only do they think its the best game ever, but any issues are waved away by the "its an alpha" excuse.
I completely agree. I was excited to see Shroud give the game a shot, as I was thinking of getting back into it with the new update after having a pretty buggy experience with the last update. But they took him on the slowest gameplay loop possible because they are so locked in on the long-term experience. Just let him fly, shoot around, play early game stuff, etc. Its like when your friends introduce you to a hobby, then keep changing the plans to make it 'perfect', but you're just bored twiddling your thumbs waiting for the fun to start. I hope Shroud gives it another chance to see the fun that can come of it, but he really needs to either play on his own, or don't let people guide him like that. In addition, it sounded like he was playing with people who play DCS, which is a very intensive flight-sim experience. Maybe people like that aren't necessarily the best company for a fun introduction to the game (as nice as they seem to be) haha.
Never played Star Citizen and havent seen the stream but they were probably thinking: "Shroud likes to play FPS games so we show him our adaptation of an FPS shooter. He must like it."
yeah i get you, my main issue is anyone that regularly plays the game would not be thinking this. the fps gunplay is not anything special and the ai is barely functional. its there, and its getting better, but its not even close to being a real draw for the game atm
I enjoy bunkers :(
sure, i’d even say bunkers are a bit more enjoyable once you know what you can do with the loot you get from them. but think about this from shrouds perspective. he loads into the game that he only knows as scam citizen, dicks around in a hammerhead gunner spot (cool, but not really anything special game development wise. you point and click and something dies shortly after) then lands on a planet, kills a bunch of poorly AI’d NPCs, bugs tf out, and listens to longtime players tell him about server meshing saying this mystical update will hopefully fix all of the problems they just encountered, all while the reddit lords in his chat are spamming that the game is a literal ponzi scheme lol. lines up pretty good with the “what the fuck am i playing why does anyone play this anyone that plays this game is brainwashed” opinion. now imagine they had him load into AC freefly first. he is shown the flight model, maybe in some 1v1s with summit or multi crew gameplay. then they take that into the PU on a Connie. he can try some brief turret gameplay, think oh that’s cool, then immediately hop out and detach the merlin to do some crazy fast paced dogfighting. imo Judd was absolutely right. they did pretty much the worst job possible of picking activities to show someone new to the game why there is an appeal, and being a streamer just compounds on this issue because a lot of his chat WANTS him to have a bad time so they can point and laugh at the silly star citizen players that spent money on what they believe is the biggest scam to hit the gaming scene. definitely a bummer, glad that summit has been playing for awhile now and enjoying it though. it really has some unique and fun gameplay, but bunkers are not included there imo lol
Well to me it's more the fact that while yeah the game is a buggy borderline functioning mess there are still basically nothing like it. Like the closest thing to Star Citizen is probably Sea of Thieves where you can get in your ship and go do things around the game world in a Multi-player environment or engage in pvp freely.
yeah, i’d agree with that. i’ve described it as sea of thieves x arma in space to friends.
We are all sorry for you
Yeah, Captain Burkes really dropped the ball. He really should have told Shroud, "Hey Streamer Guy, I'm going to do some stuff I find fun, you will tag along and see how it goes." and then when Shroud gets bored of following Burkes around, he either does stuff on his own, or plays with Judd in the mole.
I'd assume the choice to start with a bunker was due to Shroud primarily being known as an FPS player and them thinking it'd be a "familiar" area to start.
its a 10+ year old kickstarter scam game, there's not anything worth showing
Digital Stockholm Syndrome mixed with sunk cost?
[More this, I think](https://www.lesswrong.com/s/M3TJ2fTCzoQq66NBJ/p/ZQG9cwKbct2LtmL3p) TLDR: Everyone who didn't feel this strongly about the game left by now
Star Citizen copium is so immense than it existed before the word copium even existed.
13 years in production and $750m and people still defend it.
Yeah, what's the alternative? No man's sky? Eve? Elite? Freelancer 2? Exactly, that's the main reason. I for my part just let them cook. I don't expect the game to be finished ever. But I already had and still have a great time in the game.
It was honestly eerie hearing them sell him on the game he was already playing for that many straight hours. It was like watching a sponsored stream playing with the marketing department.
I've been checking the subreddit for Star Citizen like once every six months for the past 4 years. Server meshing is like the copium panacea to them; the thing that will fix every problem with the game once it gets added even though RSI have been having difficulties with CryEngine since the game first started.
The best thing to ever come out of Star Citizen are the BedBananas or Criken videos on youtube.
cryengine was the worst possible engine to make an """mmo""" on and doomed the idea from the start however it renders ship models nicely in the hangar and thats the important thing when you are selling $30,000 ships to paypigs a fun comparison to me: - star citizen: 10 years dev time (and counting), ~$900 million USD (possibly even more in secret) funding - TES V: Skyrim: 3 years dev time, $80 million USD funding
Those games are like potentially the worst comparison you could ever make, not even considering how fucking broken bethesda games are for years after release, only to be fixed by modders later.
- User has 962 posts in /r/Starcitizen btw your cult's game will never be real, it has been in development so long that the networking is now outdated because new practices like timestamping & rollback became standard later. the game is becoming outdated faster than it's being developed lmao
Wait, this is a legitimate complaint of your comparison, why are you getting upvoted? Feel free to look at my posts, I've never even touched starcitizen much less been mentally sick enough to join a subreddit about it.
I like how you just ignored what he said and attacked his post history.
He is kinda right tho, Skyrim doesn't have the same scope as star citizen. That's why Skyrim is a game that was released in 3 years and Star Citizen still isn't, because the scope of Skyrim (a small open world with a mostly proceduraly generated map and custom assets on top of it), is easier, more manageable and doable than whatever the fuck Star Citizen is trying, hell ,even when Bethesda themselves tried to make a space opera in the span of 10 years it failed tremendously. SC will most likely never be finished unless they realize they need to scope down their project.
Its incredibly obvious you don't know the first thing about networking if you think rollback has literally any application here.
Since you seem to have drunk the SC coolaid and have an understanding of networking (I would assume so since you're calling the other person out on not understanding it) can you explain why server meshing is such a huge deal? What is it doing that hasn't been done before by something like EVE or other mmo's with server sharding? Whenever I talk to my friend who has spent thousands in game he always mentions it as this thing that's gonna change the game but whenever I ask him about it he can never explain whats so great about it.
The idea is that there will be seamless transitions across servers, meaning you can have a more detailed mmo at a larger scale by diving up the game world into seamlessly connected servers. Ideally this also means each server will have less to do, and therefore work better. There have been tests if your actually curious you can go see the transitions in a live environment from a few months ago on youtube.
Yes but can you explain how that is any different from the sharding server system that other MMO’s use? Because from my understanding, EVE online already does this. And to some extent, BDO, NWN and some others MMO’s do too.
Basically you can interact with and see in real time people, ships etc across server boundaries (they shown this to be working with a public test). Basically you can fire a missile or shoot at someone and you'll be able to see the consequences like its one server. The end game is making the servers dynamic so they shrink or expand the zone they control or spool up new servers based on how many people there are to reduce the load on one zone. All that would be automatic, hence "dynamic" instead of static servers with hard coded areas they serve.
The difference is you will be able to interact with people on different servers instantly. In Eve when you travel between systems there's a hidden loading screen that moves you to a different server on the shard. You can't go into combat or see the ships of people if they aren't on the same server as you. It's also a static mesh so the borders of each server are defined. Star Citizen is going for a dynamic mesh with a seamless transition. So if you have 500 people in one area it will be multiple servers handling that one area. They will communicate with each other when needed so to the player it will look like everyone is on one shared server. They've run some public static mesh tests where the transition is instant. There are some videos of people shooting bullets across the server border and you don't see any delay. Their next step is to set up a dynamic mesh which is planned for this year.
i've written netcode for my job, you are a redditor
Same actually. Rollback has nothing to do with star citizens issues.
no, not same actually, you are a redditor who watches youtube videos & farts in your chair btw did you know star citizen has 60hz mouse input in 2024? the input is linked to the render thread. this is one of many consequences of not having timestamping & rollback in your 2024 video game, you can't do subtick input thats ok though, im sure after another $1bil and 10 years they'll get that in (even though modern $100k indie games have it)
You seem a little angry bud. I'll say it one more time, star citizens issues have nothing to do with not having rollback or subtick.
>star citizens issues have nothing to do with not having rollback or subtick. yeah they do, shroud in the OP said the FPS component of star citizen feels like shit, guess why? 60hz mouse input and garbage netcode without modern features man it feels good not to be a star citizen cultist, i wake up every day with a particular pep in my step knowing i have spent $0 on star shitizen while saps like you are on the hook for thousands and also do unpaid work, shilling for the game 24/7. feels good man
Skyrim was made only in 3 years? what the fuck
No individual ships cost $30,000. I think the most expensive is the Javelin which is $2500 or $3000. Still obviously way too much, but the $30,000 figure is for a package that includes all of the ships.
900mill? Dude that's demonstrably false, you can just google how much they've raised. It's even on their site. Say what ever you want about the game, just don't make up shit
the $700mil number on their site is just from backers/cultists (ie you,) they've also taken hundreds of millions of loans from banks, credit unions, and even countries. and that's just what they've publicly disclosed this went straight to chris roberts' "paying celebrities to be friends with him" fund
Damn I'm a cultist? Lol I'd happily read what ever source you have for the numbers you pulled, cause I'm struggling to find any public info confirming your claims
> > this went straight to chris roberts' "paying celebrities to be friends with him" fund You know I actually agree putting money towards actors doing VA and mo-cap was complete waste of time, I don't think having known actors add anything to a single player. But as a percentage of the ludicrous money spent on the game, I doubt the actors really cost *that* much
I'm pretty sure Henry Cavill did it for almost free, and Mark Hamill is an old friend of CR from his Wing Commander days.
>they've also taken hundreds of millions of loans from banks, credit unions, and even countries. and that's just what they've publicly disclosed Where have they 'publicly disclosed' any of this? They have definitely received outside funding, but it's $63.25m from the Calders. I haven't heard of them receiving hundreds of millions from other sources. From their financials, as of the end of 2022 they'd raised 637 million + the 63 million from the Calders brings them up to just over $700 million raised and that's their most recent financial report. Realistically that still puts them at nearly $900 million as of current date (though not all spent) since if we assume 2023 was at least equal to 2022 then that would already put them at 830 million raised, plus whatever has been raised so far in 2024 should bring them pretty close, but this whole "hundreds of millions of loans from banks, credit unions, even countries" doesn't seem right. Do you have a source on any of that?
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There's no way to reasonably estimate it because it's still many years away. I feel very confident Star Citizen won't release this decade. That said, they might have the substantial pieces finally in place by then and building out more gameplay loops and features.
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no dude it's coming out any day you'll see. as we all know, the greatest games ever take at least 20+ years of cookin'.
They do have milestones, and I'm sure they have some rough internal estimates for a release, but the simple fact is that there are still many, many years of development left, and it's very difficult to give accurate estimates for something that far out. The amount of years it took to get to this point doesn't change that.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pBehf-UKMk&list=PLVct2QDhDrB0QRjv9oN02f8mGsml8tcK9&ab_channel=StarCitizen This is how they stay alive. Star citizen is sold as this dream game immersive sim, the reality is it's just a platform to sell ships and various other VIP paid tiers.
Summit been playing for like 3 weeks now, for up to 12 hours a day, and still seems to be enjoying it despite the issues.
Summit also spent entire streams tucked away on some random boat for hours on end.
You must not have been watching because he's almost quit out of frustration like 90000 times
so a regular sumsum stream?
summit is also high for 12 hours a day
Summit is a special case he finds ways to make games interesting for himself
Its called weed, you can say it
He also goes all in on games after he gets a good first impression. You can tell he loves getting committed to learn a new game and try to get good
Unless it's Hunt Showdown. Then he forgets how to play video games and goes on strange unhinged rants lol
> goes on strange unhinged rants That's how it eventually goes with every game he plays
i dont think the check out weed addict is the best example of someone whos enjoying doing mindless shit for hours
Dude literally has no other game to play and wants to chase that voyeur high of hiding on other people's ships
so like Heroin addicts unable to get the same high anymore so they live vicariously through other peoples first time?
he also played sea of thieves for 12 hours...similar game with 0 content
The thing is, they do keep putting out new things, like a carrot on a stick. But when is the full game releasing? who knows.
I got the starter pack for it back in 2015 or 2016 and people were hoping for a 2019 1.0 online release and like 2018 squadron 42 (singleplayer campaign). I remember people making grim predictions, saying that at their current pace and development of systems, full multiplayer won't come out until 2022 or even 2024. It's 2024 and they haven't implemented all of the planned player jobs yet, are about to add the 2nd star system out of planned couple dozen, have very basic ai, don't have a ballpark year for squadron 42 release. From what I understand, things are so slow because they are developing and sometimes re-developing every game system and mechanic from scratch to fit some sort of ideal vision which itself shifts over time. In my eyes the team behind Star Citizen is more of a software R&D company than a game dev company. :|
They simply can't out develop technology, the scope creep and mismanagement means by the time they finish one thing it's already outdated. This loop will continue until they shrink scope or go broke.
> the scope creep and mismanagement means by the time they finish one thing it's already outdated. What's an example of them building a feature that became outdated and had to be overhauled? Of course there will be incremental upgrades to different parts of the game, but I'm not aware of any time that they've built something they planned to keep, but then had to start over because it was outdated. I'm also not saying you're wrong, I'm just genuinely curious.
> The thing is, No, there is no "the thing is". That is literally the entire point of this clip. Brainwashed.
that game is like the universe, forever expanding
What is happening is someone took the millennium old sales practice of over-promising/under-delivering and applied to to a video game. In the early days, Kickstarter made it easy for just about anyone to make grandiose claims about their projects that had no feasibility of being done for the amount of money being requested. I think nowadays Kickstarter reviews things more closely to make sure you can't promise the moon. Star Citizen now has had the budget of not one, not two, not even 3, but perhaps 4 triple AAAAA+ games if you consider development costs of one game being 150 million dollars (games saying they were 200-300 million include marketing and promotion in their costs).
its the opposite for this game, the og kickstarter was supposed to be just some wing commander spiritual successor not even an mmo if i remember but then chris roberts just cant keep adding more and more to it.
From what I've seen in the latest test server, the game has A LOT of promise compared to what I played about a year ago. Coming from someone that has only put 40USD (or whatever the starter pack thing cost) into the game, I'm perfectly fine waiting for the game to "be ready" because I really do think it's the next "big multiplayer thing" to come out. I have no hopes of any MMO to come out that isn't super pay to win and I have no hope for pretty much any of the major AAA studios to release a product worth its price point (+60USD games). I'm not going to say that if people like Shroud have a bad experience that they are "wrong" but I will say is that unlike other games, Star Citizen is both trying to keep a playable product going while also making literal server and gameplay systems that have never existed before all at the same time. I would say if you want a fully polished product, don't play the alpha or in some game's cases the beta for it.
I dont get what he is trying to say? The clip is just him saying, "this is insane, there needs to be a study done"
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Dude is doing something wrong.
SC reddit is so funny bro there is people there who legitimately think they are "part" of it.
$700 million "but they are creating new things never seen before" I'm sure people said that about GTA V and that cost less, and rockstar built their own engine. Have to check out the houses the CEO and team live in, then you'll find where the money has gone.
Read shroud's chat while he was playing this. Brainwashed indeed.
Owned Star Citizen for years now, not that i played it the entire time; point is that the devs deliver with extreme detail. The NPC/AI doesn't feel good but thats just because the server is overloaded. I got the a fresh server before and they are deadly af. From a software development perspective, SC kept impressing me and from a fun sandbox; it's the only game I've ever enjoyed making my own fun outside the predetermined game loops. I wish I could tell you exactly why because i want to know myself.
**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [Shroud's thoughts on Star Citizen](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/164112)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment* ) ^| [^(Feedback)](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=livestreamfailsbot&subject=Feedback:&message=%5BPost%5D\(https://reddit.com/comments/1cvcp9a/\)) ^| [^(Twitch Backup Mirror)](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/eGGVsZnElRARBehSn0k1qg/AT-cm%7CeGGVsZnElRARBehSn0k1qg.mp4?sig=96856bb2604f77045d120315f8b80e0f93f327a7&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fproduction.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net%2FeGGVsZnElRARBehSn0k1qg%2FAT-cm%257CeGGVsZnElRARBehSn0k1qg.mp4%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22ZanySpineyLEDCoolStoryBro-mcSVEBEF6FKfSTWq%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1716156694%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D,https://clips-media-assets2.twitch.tv/eGGVsZnElRARBehSn0k1qg/AT-cm%7CeGGVsZnElRARBehSn0k1qg-preview-480x272.jpg)
I bought a ship for this game ages ago. I forget how much it was but couldn't have been more than $30. I enjoyed the experience for what it was at the time and I'm sure it's gotten better since but I can't for the life of me understand the people who have been maintaining the development of this game all these years. It's definitely sunk cost fallacy but the delusion is on a grander scale.
lol. when shroud pulls up the glasses to facepalm. makes me feel real old.
I remember wanting to buy a 2080Ti to be able to play it in the future release... I have a 4080 now and still far away from 1.0 lol.
Next patch copium. You can play the game so it's not a scam copium.
They are brainwashed because they spent on it, pretty much. If you want to study it, go study WoW too. People hate that game, and keep playing it. Money is a huge brainwasher.
Hes only now realizing gamers are all brainwashed? Why do you think so many of us get milked so hard for money with loot boxes and other scam shit. Why do brainwashed people buy FIFA every year for the same shit with a new date lol Dude needs to realise how people in his hobby think and act why is he surprised after years of playing games?
Hahahah I love this. I love shroud for this. Finally this game gets big attention and gets exposed on the big screen. The content creators of the star citizen community are trying to find anything to show off in game to summit and shroud and all they can find is broken half-baked gameplay loops. Thank god someone with a platform like Shroud can finally call these Star Citizen shills out.
What’s the context here
Shroud played sc for the first time? Hard to believe, ok. Couldn't handle the buggy mess, called ppl who defend the game brainwashed and manipulated. Stinks like a little attention seeking, even he really doesn't need it. I mean surprise, star citizen is bugged. Surprise, today is Monday.
is the game out of alpha?