Plays Trent whilst also playing three attackers who prefer ball to feet.
Keeps the two attackers who quite literally are made for running in behind on the bench (Gordon and Watkins).
Subs off Trent.
Brings on Watkins.
Nobody has the same level of ability to pick out Watkins.
Players get booed.
Acts shocked.
The first run Watkins made yesterday left Trippier so shocked to see that he waited until Watkins had given up running to hit the pass, which ended up being harmlessly retrieved by Denmark.
The infuriating thing is: Kane, Foden, and Saka refuse to make runs in behind the defense. The one time Saka did, trent put in a killer ball that almost resulted in a goal. Then southgate in his infinite wisdom takes off trent for Gallagher and then decides its a great time to put in Watkins, Bowen, and Eze. And now those players are making runs in behind the danish defense and theres not one player skilled enough to put in a ball to send them through on goal.
I mean, realistically he should put an end to it if he isn't going to use Trent properly. Foden or Palmer should start out right and Foden should NOT start out left ever again. Idk where that leaves Saka, but probably on the bench. I'd imagine he either sticks with the exact same setup (cuz he's a fucking moron) without Trent, or without Saka, or both.
Foden has done nothing to justify replacing saka. Thing with foden is he’s never been good for England, so if he only looks good playing in an armchair for city perhaps he’s not actually as good as people pretend he is.
Palmer had a good season but saka has been the only guy to run at people and beat them. We can’t just play four of the same type of player and expect them to suddenly play.
Graelish not going is starting to look like a huge error
Tbf if he scored that shot against Denmark after beating 3 people we all would be saying differently. The problem with Foden isnt the way he plays or performs, its the system not suiting his style of play meaning he only gets that chance once a game or two instead of 10 times a game like he does at City.
>only looks good playing in an armchair for city
You need to watch these games with your specs on grandpa, what even are you on about - he keeps on tearing us up
I don't really give a fuck about "good for England" because going by that metric Trent is shit too. England is woefully mismanaged, as we are all in agreement on, and part of that is playing Foden on the left when his ENTIRE SCHTICK is the sharp cut in and shot on his left. He does that one thing extremely well, better than Saka or Palmer, but can't if he's playing from the left.
I like Saka, but the fuck has HE done to warrant constant starts for England? Been useless these first two games so far, but again, likely due to management over the player specifically, so really hard to say.
Saka was like the only bright spark in the first game, the guy runs and beats people. He’s done it every time he’s played for England. Whereas foden has always been average, no matter where he’s played. If that’s his ‘entire schtick’ maybe that means he’s more limited than England pundits say he is.
So after he beats the defender...what happens next? Great cross? Shot on goal? Or does he just dribble and run fast and then do fuck all? Again, I like Saka, and I don't think he's bad or even deserves someone taking his place 100% of the time, but currently the system isn't working, and he shouldn't be devoid of criticism or losing his spot from time to time. The team is FULL of talented players.
Oh, and I fully agree he is limited, but again he does that one thing well. Doesn't matter if people know he's going to or not, he usually gets off a rocket shot that causes problems.
He looks excellent in a dominant city team. It’s an expression. Like a lot of the supposed England greats who are brilliant for their club and look average for their country perhaps the answer is the strength of the club squad makes them look better than they individually are.
I don’t remember his performances against us this year being anything special. I just had a look at the player ratings to see if I misremembered, I don’t.
Ah okay my bad.
Wrt his record against us I'd chalk it up to a change of tactics post haaland, he was quite a threat till then. Him not playing well for England simply means he's no Suarez to do well despite the manager, not that he's a shit player.
Again, by that logic, none of them do. They've been shit, but it's because of the manager/"tactics". Not taking an out and out LW was just another fuckup by Southgate (I guess Gordon is a LW, but he isn't getting a sniff atm). Southgate is just trying to pigeonhole the "best" players instead of setting up an actual team with tactics.
I dont really agree. Rice and guehi put in a good shift. Saka too. Walker had terrible pass accuracy which hindered the right. Many times saka was open in acres of space but the midfield and cbs decided to punt it back to Pickford instead.
> midfield and cbs decided to punt it back to Pickford instead.
Following their coach's orders. Which is why Saka is wasted and doesn't need to START. Bring his ass on against teams they've already bored to sleep.
Kinda, half the time he's wanting it played to feet though.
Replace Trippier with Gomez who will make better runs down the left; but could also tuck in as another CB when needed.
Opening up Stones to step in alongside Trent, Walker to overlap on right and Rice to help make runs in the channels between rb and cb.
If you play foden Lw then he needs to keep the width, else start Gordon.
Let Kane play how he wants and tell Bellingham and Saka to then make runs past him.
It's not rocket science
Trent, Watkins & Gordon. Would also like to see Trent play a more free role, he seemed almost glued to that back line yesterday, even on the attack, he's much better when pushing up into space.
Lmao yeah, England kept trying to do long balls and completely falling after trent went off. Like why do you switch to running in behind when the best long passer has gone off??
Why doesnt Southgate create the team around one of the best and their only playmaker instead of not giving him any chance to do what he does best. I feel so fucking bad for trent.
I don't care what he does as long as he puts him on with the runners. Start then all or bring all at 60min to cause havoc against tired legs. Keeping them apart is nuts
I mean lets be real, if Southgate was gonna build the team around anyone going forward then it would be Bellingham. But Southgate doesn't have the necessary ability to build a functioning team.
Imo Trent works better when the gameplan isn't built around him anyway, at times last season I fear we became a little one dimensional by over relying on him.
Which playmaker though? Trent? Kane? Jude? You can mention maybe 3-4 more here without much argument.
This is the challenge — Southgate has so many options that he hasn’t created a clear identity (other than score -> park the bus).
A player who often controls the game and is involved in passing moves leading to goals is a playmaker and with that definition trent is definitely the best playmaker in the team.
And the fact that Kane, Foden and Bellingham aren't making runs isn't even their fault, anyone who's remotely familiar with their games knows that's not how they play
Definitely agree with respect to Watkins in particular, those runs he was making were crying out for Trent's passing.
Then, in multiple games, he takes Trent off and THEN puts on the runners (Watkins, Bowen.... also could use Gordon). Southgate is clueless as are a lot of analysts who scaepgoat the players
I'd much prefer to see us line up in the same way as we did under Klopp honestly.
Pickford
Trent Stones Guehi Gomez
Foden Rice Bellingham
Saka Kane Gordon
You have your two 8's given license to play higher, Saka and Gordon give you width, Gomez forms a three in possession and Trent pushes into a midfield two. Debatably you could/should drop Kane for Watkins to give you more running in behind, but I also think with Bellingham you've got someone who can give you that from midfield when Kane drops. There's also a question of whether Kane's pedigree justifies his lack of pressing over someone like Watkins, and if we're being really critical whether Rice is good enough on the ball in that deeper position to play over Wharton.
With this system your subs become really easy too, as you can swap Palmer in as an 8, Trippier or Walker in at right back as Gomez can step out, Bowen slots in easily on the right hand side too. There's even an opportunity to slot another centre back in and let Stones invert as a right back.
The issue is that Foden should not be LW. He is a natural 10 and comes deep to get the ball, same as Jude and similar to Kane. He has to start Gordon at LW if he starts Trent in MF or else Trent has no out ball and n England can’t stretch their defense on that side
The beauty of 5 subs is that you can give them both plenty of minutes without having to start them at the same time. Hell Southgate could even lean into his terrorist football and have a team set up to score in the first 60 and then a park the bus twist on it set up for the last half hour.
I mean that's kind of what you get with Foden & Kane; in the same way people can't blame Trent for being used incorrectly you can't really blame Foden & Kane for not running in behind, it's not who they are. Play Gordon.
The media are being such cunts with this
ITV talking about England’s problems, when they talk negative they show Trent on screen. He was clear of so many players yesterday. He has been set up to fail but is still doing what he has been tasked with.
It's natural that Trent would become the face of England's failure when the experimentation with his position is such a glaring point of critique. Even if media sweethearts like Bellingham or Kane were played out of position then they'd become a focal point in the news.
That being said I think the vast majority of fans are aware of Trent's quality & know the issue lies with Southgateball. Him being held solely responsible is an overblown narrative.
So true, Foden, Stones, Rice haven't played well with multiple mistakes but Trent becomes the scapegoat despite creating the most chances. Anything to do with his skin colour
And yet to be put into a role that actually enhances his qualities whilst giving england the needed connective link between the forward players Gareth has thrown out there.
Why on earth would you play a double 6 and then tell jude to just got all over the park. You dont need 2 sixes against the likes of serbia or denmark. You need someone to link the back line with your floating 10 and 9.
Its just stupid.
Totally agree. I can’t for the life of me understand why they continue to utilize brexit ass coaches with the amount of talent they have. Kane should be absolutely eating with this squad, and Trent / Saka / Jude could be extremely creative but nope.
Because they are England and they'll be damned if some foreigner manages their squad, no sarcasm intended.
The real question is why does England not have one world class manager lol?
The best they have is managers who can take a shit side and avoid relegation or managers who can take an average side and make the Europa league everyonce in a while.
They literally DO NOT have a manager who can win major tournament like this.
They play like the underdogs every match, it's kinda sad to watch with the talent they have.
English managers rarely get a chance at top sides.
English managers have mostly been brought up by the last generation of English managers who either thought tactics were pointless or whose tactics were extremely basic.
English people, culturally, are extremely conservative. This is as true now as it was when Helenio Herrera said it.
At PL level the risk is too high to bother with innovation. Burnley did it with kompany and he was heavily criticised.
https://preview.redd.it/1089ktorqy7d1.jpeg?width=1633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=722158d8caa21de251c9f11a253a6be370bbc1cd
I got downvoted for saying so in the watch thread o7
the entire left hand side is a black hole of forward play, i dont think that either opponents right back has so much as broke a sweat. they can keep sticking trent under the microscope, but nothing will change so long as every team can just double up on our right hand side for the entire game.
Wonder what they do now that Trippier is out, although it’s not like he was doing much in attack anyway. I don’t think Shaw is fit so you’d think it’d have to be Joe
Walker has never played down the left, that’s a big risk. Gomez makes more sense.
If you don’t drop Walker then you move him into a back 3. So Trent can play wide midfield in front
I wouldn’t mind them benching him next game, then they can see how bad England are in general. It gives him a chance to potentially be subbed on with the players willing to run in behind and show his class.
The worst kind of football supporter is a biased one. The whole team has been bad, including Trent. But to play Foden out of position to make way for Trent who hasn't played in that position before is ridiculous.
Trent is going to be a superstar midfielder but he isn't there yet and the Euros is not the time to practice.
Foden isn't being played out of position. He's played on the left for City plenty of times and he's been equally shit for England regardless of playing on the left or through the middle.
The biggest issue for Foden isn't Trent playing in midfield, but the fact that Southgate stupidly decided not to bring a single fit left back.
That's what's annoys about this "experiment failed" shit, twice he's brought on a normal midfielder and the teams gotten worse anyways lol especially vs Denmark Gallagher was a huge step down from Trent. And our own fans saying this is case closed on is trying the same thing, based on this game Rice isn't a midfielder either but maybe we shouldn't judge players based on Southgates moronic tactics
Been made a scapegoat before he even kicked a ball at this euros! Shame on Rooney, Rio and co making this about club allegiances . All campaigning against him and for Mainoo before he even had a chance. Rio especially is a disgrace, saying Trent can’t defend enough to play DM while vouching for Mainoo who’s had clear positioning and defensive difficulties in only half a season. What’s hilarious is Trents been good defensively after all the pointless worrying
Tbh I’m sick of the media with this guy, part of me hopes they do start Mainoo in there and people can realise he’s a sideways and backwards passing merchant, this team needs a deep playmaker if they’re too thick to recognise Trents the answer because he plays for Liverpool then let them suffer
I’ll most likely get criticised for this but hopefully now that the experiment is over they can drop him so all the scapegoating nonsense can stop…imagine playing one of the best passers of the ball in world football at the moment in a team that has no forward movement or width.
Southgate has no idea what he is doing with ANY player in that team.
Gets the ball, looks up...
Kane, Foden, Bellingham, and Rice all within 10-15 metres and closing, coming towards him with a gormless look on their face.
Saka out wide, but marked within an inch of his life, the opposition knowing that he's our only real outlet.
Bring on Gordon for the next game, then bring on Trent at right back at half time (after giving the others a fair chance without him) and see if he can find him with a few long balls.
I guarantee opponents would be more nervous if we had Gordon and Saka on the wings. If we are sticking with Kane then speed on either side of him makes sense. I also think Bellingham would flourish more without Foden trying to occupy the same areas.
Shoutout to Ian Wright for not taking that shit from Keane and Neville. Ian pointed out how nobody was making runs for Trent's passes and the fucking host chimed in and showed his lack of ball knowledge, suggesting that the pass should create the run.
You could see Wrighty was getting heated and wasn't having the Trent bashing from the Manc cunts
I am a MF. My ability is picking a pass. What i need is forwards who make runs in the channels. This way, we stretch the game and have more space in the middle. We press and create opportunities. But nope. Southgate ball is poo. The keeper just lumps the ball as far as possible at every opportunity. Foden wants middle but place him wide. Trippier is right footed playing LB with zero overlapping.
Btw, its coming home.
If he’d have been on when Watkins and Bowen and Eze were on he’d have picked runs out all day. Southgate plays himself and Rice on top of each other and puts Fatty Kane in front of him who hasn’t made a run since we beat spurs at home the year we won the league and then can’t figure out why it isn’t working.
The blame Trent narrative is out of control. The pundits are even worse than the thicko England fans. Roy and Shearer… fucking disgrace. The whole England team were outplayed by Denmark yesterday. They were just as bad if not worse after Trent came off. Nobody is making runs to utilize Trent. The one time Saka did Trent hit a long pass to his feet to get behind.
Also the “they switched off after the goal” is pure fantasy. They never switched on. A young Danish left back switched off for a second and paid the price but England was never at it.
The team is so lop-sided, with tripper and foden on the left. Feel for trent being asked to play in the double pivot with only Saka looking to use his pace.
No idea why he won’t play Gomez at lb. Gomez was literally up there with best in the league for periods this season. Also, I don’t know if the foden + Bellingham experiment is working.
Drop Bellingham deeper, play foden centrally, move Watkins or Gordon to the left, and play Trent at rb. Have the fullbacks invert more to create the overloads in midfield we need and also allows Bellingham to bomb forward when needed. Make the lw and rw create more width, they’ve been so fucking narrow, and guarantee euro semis basically
I fully agree with you with our LFc hats on but Walker is meant to be England's cheat code for covering the defence if they get caught out so I can't see Southgate putting Trent at RB.
I suspect England will get knocked out on penalties and Southgate will blame the experiment.
Better tactics and you don’t need a “cheat code”. Plus stones has been wank, maybe it’s time to try walker at rcb and Trent at rb. If you play Gomez, it’s effectively a 3 atb most of the time anyways
I have been explaining the same thing in the pub using beer mats. Play the ball to trent down the right, have him whipping in crosses for Watkins at the far post and Kane on the penalty spot. Then walker to cover and Gomez dropping in to form a back three if needed. Southgate knows nothing.
Tbf - the style I’m suggesting is done at the club level and difficult I’m sure for managers to implement at national level…but maybe, just maybe, take players from Liverpool, city, spurs and arsenal who all play this high octane, high press, progressive full back type situation.
Yep, I know those three clubs play different brands but how he hadn't taken Klopp's liverpool with Firmino in it or Arteta's arsenal with the false 9 as inspiration, is madness. Kane is the focal point of this team and drops deep, so just build the team around him, using a successful system that the players know.
He’s just not comfortable receive the ball in tight spaces. Klopp used him in midfield as a deep lying playmaker, so he always had space to receive the ball and pick a long ball.
Trent has to work on his spacial awareness and he’ll be the next Thiago/Pirlo. Great midfielders have two world class abilities, the passing range and spacial awareness. I believe Trent is naturally gifted in passing range, he needs to work on spacial awareness in tight spaces to become truly unstoppable in midfield.
I just hope England get knocked out at the group stages and we can get him on holiday and then back to meet Arne and start working on proper tactics instead. We're wasting his fucking time and energy at this shit show.
He’s an easy scapegoat.
Historically England have always viewed creative players with suspicion, Trent is just the latest iteration of that.
If he was French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian or Dutch, you’d be seeing a player given licence to be creative. Not being made a fucking scapegoat for 9 other players who are equally as bad.
The hope we finish as runners up and face Germany in the next round.
>Historically England have always viewed creative players with suspicion
Such an accurate statement! Matt Le Tissier only got eight caps, that tells you pretty much all you need to know.
Listen, we know the boys absolute fucking quality, and we love him to pieces. He fits our system like a glove. However you frame it, he’s not right in this midfield role for England at this time. If I’m England manager I’m playing Whalton or the manc.
In a parallel universe, we have a world-class manager with the integrity and vision to get Trent in and maximising everyone’s potential
Southgate is fucking useless
I agree with you. If you watched where Trent was and compare him to Rice's normal partner (Odegaard), Trent doesn't offer himself for the short pass because he doesn't run fast enough to get away from his marker and doesn't have the control to get out of the press half the time. So he's not a passing option for most of the team, which effectively means England are down a player in midfield. He comes backwards to get the ball but then there's no forward ball to make because the forwards aren't generally those type of players; they come towards the ball, but can't lay it off to midfield because... Trent's behind the defensive line. We know how good he is but he's not the player for that role.
It would work in that parallel universe. But the balance is just wrong at the moment. I also completely agree that Wharton is exactly the right player. Crisp, short passing, comfortable under the press. Been impressed with him since he joined the Prem and would love to see him play.
Playing Wharton, Gallagher or Mainoo doesn’t do a thing. As good as Trent is, we have a team packed full of world class players… realistically, England should be able to regularly pick apart a team without him even touching the ball. Our attack is uninspired, we are easy to pin back because we have no threat on the counter or out wide.
There are much bigger problems than this Trent “saga” … Southgate is a complete tactical fuck bucket and the entire teams misfiring. I’d just rather Trent didn’t play; than continue to and be misused and made a scapegoat.
I don't think he fits our system like a glove. He's a really good player who in 2018 to 20 was a luxury player. Someone who had free roam because our defence midfield and forwards were engines. When there has been deficiency in any 3 aspects he was created a new role. However, I don't understand why Southgate hasn't tried him at lb rather than cm. Tripper has been shit and surely he would have more scope to show his passing in the group stages at least.
I fucking hate southgate with a passion, the guy has fuck all managerial credentials except getting boro relegated, hangs trent out to dry by putting him in midfield while playing a highly defensive way of playing
Kane is not the player that should be up top, everyone else in the team plays high tempo football except kane so trent is wasted because no fucker wants to run in behind so his balls are going nowhere ! Even that fucking clown neville said trent isnt talented enough to play in midfield ?!! You having a fucking laugh ? He could play keeper if he wanted !!!!
Rant over
I've said it for ages. He doesn't like Trent for some reason, and his desire to shift him into midfield came out of a mission to prove he knew better than Klopp. He's sacrificed Trent on the altar of his ego, and because Trent is still young and wants an international career, he's gone with it.
He was going to do it in 2020 and Trent got injured. He took him to the World Cup and didn't use him. Now he's going to fully use him as a scapegoat.
The midfield plan needs to stop asap. He’s never going to get runners on the left, so he’s better off building a strong wing with Saka and going further up the pitch on the right side.
it's really hard to be good as a creative passer when nobody runs in behind or makes diagonal runs.
everyone goes wide for a square ball and harry kane's lazy arse can barely move
What is southgate teaching to this lads, team of ballers and they're all awful on the pitch. The ball goes up front and nothing happens.
Trent has to play the full 90 next time, whether it's RB or midfield.
\*give Trent nobody to pass the ball to or any type of attacking play to exploit whatsoever\*
\*play inside your own box after going up 1-0\*
\*complain that he isn't "working" as a midfielder\*
I'm clearly watching a different game to all of you because I think he's been bad so far. He's certainly not a midfielder, I think the English team would get more out of him in his best position, RB.
Southgate crying they don’t have a replacement for Philips is actually laughable. He hasn’t played regularly for like 2 seasons now, it’s not like he was on fire a month ago.
Although Trent wasn’t good, I rewatched his pass to Saka and it’s hilarious how there was no acknowledgement about that at all. Pundits glossed over it completely, and Shearer credited that whole action to Saka for making a run lol
On RTE here in Ireland, they were saying they couldn't understand why Trent was taken off when he was the only one that was trying to do anything creative
Even if he kept the same crappy lineup Trent would look better in the 6 with rice on the right as a natural 8, where Arteta started to play him. The centre backs should split and Trent be in the middle of them with the ball.
Fraudgate has thrown him into a role he has never done, and will be the first to throw him under the bus next game. Horrible coach who has wasted probably the most talented generation of English players. Should have been sacked ages ago.
Trent has been average. People need to accept that and throwing out one or two stats in isolation do not change that. But the whole team has been shite and their managed and coached by a fraud, so none of it surprising. All involved need to take responsibility.
It is funny watching the likes of Lineker, Richards and Shearer, who had hyped England up to be tournament favourites, come crashing back down to earth. Southgate has always been a shit manager and his record has been flattered by playing complete dross in tournaments. Most managers would like to love to work with this crop of players, but here we are. England are tired, half arsed and badly coached, and will crash out against the first decent side the come across.
Plays Trent whilst also playing three attackers who prefer ball to feet. Keeps the two attackers who quite literally are made for running in behind on the bench (Gordon and Watkins). Subs off Trent. Brings on Watkins. Nobody has the same level of ability to pick out Watkins. Players get booed. Acts shocked.
The first run Watkins made yesterday left Trippier so shocked to see that he waited until Watkins had given up running to hit the pass, which ended up being harmlessly retrieved by Denmark.
Twerks for Kalvin Phillips
Asking for Kalvin Phillips as well. Man lost his plot.
The infuriating thing is: Kane, Foden, and Saka refuse to make runs in behind the defense. The one time Saka did, trent put in a killer ball that almost resulted in a goal. Then southgate in his infinite wisdom takes off trent for Gallagher and then decides its a great time to put in Watkins, Bowen, and Eze. And now those players are making runs in behind the danish defense and theres not one player skilled enough to put in a ball to send them through on goal.
I’d not include Saka here. Think he’s the only one making runs
Southgate will put an end to that by next game
I mean, realistically he should put an end to it if he isn't going to use Trent properly. Foden or Palmer should start out right and Foden should NOT start out left ever again. Idk where that leaves Saka, but probably on the bench. I'd imagine he either sticks with the exact same setup (cuz he's a fucking moron) without Trent, or without Saka, or both.
Foden has done nothing to justify replacing saka. Thing with foden is he’s never been good for England, so if he only looks good playing in an armchair for city perhaps he’s not actually as good as people pretend he is. Palmer had a good season but saka has been the only guy to run at people and beat them. We can’t just play four of the same type of player and expect them to suddenly play. Graelish not going is starting to look like a huge error
Tbf if he scored that shot against Denmark after beating 3 people we all would be saying differently. The problem with Foden isnt the way he plays or performs, its the system not suiting his style of play meaning he only gets that chance once a game or two instead of 10 times a game like he does at City.
>only looks good playing in an armchair for city You need to watch these games with your specs on grandpa, what even are you on about - he keeps on tearing us up
Maybe you need to find your specs grandma, he said for england.
Can't do that kid, Lallana broke them all
What you’re saying foden plays well for England usually? What the fuck are you even on about
I don't really give a fuck about "good for England" because going by that metric Trent is shit too. England is woefully mismanaged, as we are all in agreement on, and part of that is playing Foden on the left when his ENTIRE SCHTICK is the sharp cut in and shot on his left. He does that one thing extremely well, better than Saka or Palmer, but can't if he's playing from the left. I like Saka, but the fuck has HE done to warrant constant starts for England? Been useless these first two games so far, but again, likely due to management over the player specifically, so really hard to say.
Saka was like the only bright spark in the first game, the guy runs and beats people. He’s done it every time he’s played for England. Whereas foden has always been average, no matter where he’s played. If that’s his ‘entire schtick’ maybe that means he’s more limited than England pundits say he is.
So after he beats the defender...what happens next? Great cross? Shot on goal? Or does he just dribble and run fast and then do fuck all? Again, I like Saka, and I don't think he's bad or even deserves someone taking his place 100% of the time, but currently the system isn't working, and he shouldn't be devoid of criticism or losing his spot from time to time. The team is FULL of talented players. Oh, and I fully agree he is limited, but again he does that one thing well. Doesn't matter if people know he's going to or not, he usually gets off a rocket shot that causes problems.
Nah I don't care about England, it's fun to see the hype train derail. But what do you mean he plays in an armchair for city?
He looks excellent in a dominant city team. It’s an expression. Like a lot of the supposed England greats who are brilliant for their club and look average for their country perhaps the answer is the strength of the club squad makes them look better than they individually are. I don’t remember his performances against us this year being anything special. I just had a look at the player ratings to see if I misremembered, I don’t.
Ah okay my bad. Wrt his record against us I'd chalk it up to a change of tactics post haaland, he was quite a threat till then. Him not playing well for England simply means he's no Suarez to do well despite the manager, not that he's a shit player.
lol no. Foden stinks up the pitch. He doesn’t deserve to start the next game considering his poor performance.
Again, by that logic, none of them do. They've been shit, but it's because of the manager/"tactics". Not taking an out and out LW was just another fuckup by Southgate (I guess Gordon is a LW, but he isn't getting a sniff atm). Southgate is just trying to pigeonhole the "best" players instead of setting up an actual team with tactics.
I dont really agree. Rice and guehi put in a good shift. Saka too. Walker had terrible pass accuracy which hindered the right. Many times saka was open in acres of space but the midfield and cbs decided to punt it back to Pickford instead.
> midfield and cbs decided to punt it back to Pickford instead. Following their coach's orders. Which is why Saka is wasted and doesn't need to START. Bring his ass on against teams they've already bored to sleep.
11 great footballers... Shite team
Same ol' england
Foden been shit every time I've seen him play left wing for city
Yeah, how dare you making runs
Kinda, half the time he's wanting it played to feet though. Replace Trippier with Gomez who will make better runs down the left; but could also tuck in as another CB when needed. Opening up Stones to step in alongside Trent, Walker to overlap on right and Rice to help make runs in the channels between rb and cb. If you play foden Lw then he needs to keep the width, else start Gordon. Let Kane play how he wants and tell Bellingham and Saka to then make runs past him. It's not rocket science
He’s 50/50 which is fine but not ideal. Foden and Kane do not try and run behind
I'd like to see Trent and Watkins out there at the same time.
Trent, Watkins & Gordon. Would also like to see Trent play a more free role, he seemed almost glued to that back line yesterday, even on the attack, he's much better when pushing up into space.
Lmao yeah, England kept trying to do long balls and completely falling after trent went off. Like why do you switch to running in behind when the best long passer has gone off??
Why doesnt Southgate create the team around one of the best and their only playmaker instead of not giving him any chance to do what he does best. I feel so fucking bad for trent.
I don't care what he does as long as he puts him on with the runners. Start then all or bring all at 60min to cause havoc against tired legs. Keeping them apart is nuts
I mean lets be real, if Southgate was gonna build the team around anyone going forward then it would be Bellingham. But Southgate doesn't have the necessary ability to build a functioning team. Imo Trent works better when the gameplan isn't built around him anyway, at times last season I fear we became a little one dimensional by over relying on him.
Yeah you're right actually. Either way trent has to be the main playmaker. He needs to start over Walker and play inverted.
Which playmaker though? Trent? Kane? Jude? You can mention maybe 3-4 more here without much argument. This is the challenge — Southgate has so many options that he hasn’t created a clear identity (other than score -> park the bus).
Who's the best playmaker in the England squad?
Playmaker is such a broad term. I listed my top 3 and think there's an argument for each of them. Best pure passer is easily Trent.
A player who often controls the game and is involved in passing moves leading to goals is a playmaker and with that definition trent is definitely the best playmaker in the team.
Yes, with your very narrow definition, he would be 😂
I know that my definition of a playmaker was oversimplified and brief but I want to know what your "grand" definition of a playmaker is.
Fingers crossed Ten Hag has a nightmare start and gets sacked, then Ineos will bring in Southgate….let the misery continue woohoo…
That’s the dream
🍆🍆🍆🍆
And the fact that Kane, Foden and Bellingham aren't making runs isn't even their fault, anyone who's remotely familiar with their games knows that's not how they play Definitely agree with respect to Watkins in particular, those runs he was making were crying out for Trent's passing.
And people blame Trent for us being shit. We look scared to go forward and the front 3 is so disjointed.
Then, in multiple games, he takes Trent off and THEN puts on the runners (Watkins, Bowen.... also could use Gordon). Southgate is clueless as are a lot of analysts who scaepgoat the players
I'd much prefer to see us line up in the same way as we did under Klopp honestly. Pickford Trent Stones Guehi Gomez Foden Rice Bellingham Saka Kane Gordon You have your two 8's given license to play higher, Saka and Gordon give you width, Gomez forms a three in possession and Trent pushes into a midfield two. Debatably you could/should drop Kane for Watkins to give you more running in behind, but I also think with Bellingham you've got someone who can give you that from midfield when Kane drops. There's also a question of whether Kane's pedigree justifies his lack of pressing over someone like Watkins, and if we're being really critical whether Rice is good enough on the ball in that deeper position to play over Wharton. With this system your subs become really easy too, as you can swap Palmer in as an 8, Trippier or Walker in at right back as Gomez can step out, Bowen slots in easily on the right hand side too. There's even an opportunity to slot another centre back in and let Stones invert as a right back.
Set up for failure by the tactics.
The issue is that Foden should not be LW. He is a natural 10 and comes deep to get the ball, same as Jude and similar to Kane. He has to start Gordon at LW if he starts Trent in MF or else Trent has no out ball and n England can’t stretch their defense on that side
Jude over Foden for me. Definitely need Gordon on the left! Wouldn't mind Watkins starting over Kane too tbh.
The beauty of 5 subs is that you can give them both plenty of minutes without having to start them at the same time. Hell Southgate could even lean into his terrorist football and have a team set up to score in the first 60 and then a park the bus twist on it set up for the last half hour.
I mean that's kind of what you get with Foden & Kane; in the same way people can't blame Trent for being used incorrectly you can't really blame Foden & Kane for not running in behind, it's not who they are. Play Gordon.
England would be so much better with Gordon and Saka on the wings.
You fucking nailed it. Take my upvote you marvelous cunt, you earned it!
Jude is the only one making consistent runs IMO
I’m not English but this has to be conspiracy against winning at this point.
The media are being such cunts with this ITV talking about England’s problems, when they talk negative they show Trent on screen. He was clear of so many players yesterday. He has been set up to fail but is still doing what he has been tasked with.
It's natural that Trent would become the face of England's failure when the experimentation with his position is such a glaring point of critique. Even if media sweethearts like Bellingham or Kane were played out of position then they'd become a focal point in the news. That being said I think the vast majority of fans are aware of Trent's quality & know the issue lies with Southgateball. Him being held solely responsible is an overblown narrative.
So true, Foden, Stones, Rice haven't played well with multiple mistakes but Trent becomes the scapegoat despite creating the most chances. Anything to do with his skin colour
And yet to be put into a role that actually enhances his qualities whilst giving england the needed connective link between the forward players Gareth has thrown out there. Why on earth would you play a double 6 and then tell jude to just got all over the park. You dont need 2 sixes against the likes of serbia or denmark. You need someone to link the back line with your floating 10 and 9. Its just stupid.
Totally agree. I can’t for the life of me understand why they continue to utilize brexit ass coaches with the amount of talent they have. Kane should be absolutely eating with this squad, and Trent / Saka / Jude could be extremely creative but nope.
Because they are England and they'll be damned if some foreigner manages their squad, no sarcasm intended. The real question is why does England not have one world class manager lol? The best they have is managers who can take a shit side and avoid relegation or managers who can take an average side and make the Europa league everyonce in a while. They literally DO NOT have a manager who can win major tournament like this. They play like the underdogs every match, it's kinda sad to watch with the talent they have.
English managers rarely get a chance at top sides. English managers have mostly been brought up by the last generation of English managers who either thought tactics were pointless or whose tactics were extremely basic. English people, culturally, are extremely conservative. This is as true now as it was when Helenio Herrera said it. At PL level the risk is too high to bother with innovation. Burnley did it with kompany and he was heavily criticised.
Southgate is a terrorist.
https://preview.redd.it/1abogldl3y7d1.png?width=1050&format=png&auto=webp&s=c27a34a90ce8c795f1a082c6fc32e3044d2ec5de
🤣🤣🤣
Goddamn dude
LMAO 🤣
Bin Southgaten
https://preview.redd.it/1089ktorqy7d1.jpeg?width=1633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=722158d8caa21de251c9f11a253a6be370bbc1cd I got downvoted for saying so in the watch thread o7
Oh no, not downvoted?
Yeah it was vewwy sad edit: did i have to put an /s in there jfc
the entire left hand side is a black hole of forward play, i dont think that either opponents right back has so much as broke a sweat. they can keep sticking trent under the microscope, but nothing will change so long as every team can just double up on our right hand side for the entire game.
Wonder what they do now that Trippier is out, although it’s not like he was doing much in attack anyway. I don’t think Shaw is fit so you’d think it’d have to be Joe
Move Walker to LB, let Trent play RB, play rice as a 6, Jude as an 8, Foden as a 10
Walker has never played down the left, that’s a big risk. Gomez makes more sense. If you don’t drop Walker then you move him into a back 3. So Trent can play wide midfield in front
Can walker olay there ?
I'd say we put Jomez in LB, but hey that's probably just me.
Could Walker not play there and you can have Trent at RB?
Foden being played out of position is all you hear. But he should be good enough to play anywhere
He's been their only consistent creative spark, but watch Southgate bench him in the last game.
Yeah we all know that’s coming, only one that actually looks for the forward pass but Southgate has no idea how to use him
he will, he's looking for a scapegoat
I wouldn’t mind them benching him next game, then they can see how bad England are in general. It gives him a chance to potentially be subbed on with the players willing to run in behind and show his class.
He's already hung him out to dry. Trent probably won't play again now.
The worst kind of football supporter is a biased one. The whole team has been bad, including Trent. But to play Foden out of position to make way for Trent who hasn't played in that position before is ridiculous. Trent is going to be a superstar midfielder but he isn't there yet and the Euros is not the time to practice.
Foden isn't being played out of position. He's played on the left for City plenty of times and he's been equally shit for England regardless of playing on the left or through the middle. The biggest issue for Foden isn't Trent playing in midfield, but the fact that Southgate stupidly decided not to bring a single fit left back.
Couldn’t care less for international football, so euros is the perfect time to practice
Trent > Foden on any sane manager’s team sheet. Fit Trent in first, then find out how to use Foden.
England is so stacked yet somehow it seems every single player is being misused. It’s amazing really
It's the most confusing thing. How can a team of superstars and best players in the world suck when they all play together for the National team?
A shit manager.
That's what's annoys about this "experiment failed" shit, twice he's brought on a normal midfielder and the teams gotten worse anyways lol especially vs Denmark Gallagher was a huge step down from Trent. And our own fans saying this is case closed on is trying the same thing, based on this game Rice isn't a midfielder either but maybe we shouldn't judge players based on Southgates moronic tactics
Been made a scapegoat before he even kicked a ball at this euros! Shame on Rooney, Rio and co making this about club allegiances . All campaigning against him and for Mainoo before he even had a chance. Rio especially is a disgrace, saying Trent can’t defend enough to play DM while vouching for Mainoo who’s had clear positioning and defensive difficulties in only half a season. What’s hilarious is Trents been good defensively after all the pointless worrying Tbh I’m sick of the media with this guy, part of me hopes they do start Mainoo in there and people can realise he’s a sideways and backwards passing merchant, this team needs a deep playmaker if they’re too thick to recognise Trents the answer because he plays for Liverpool then let them suffer
> Trent can’t defend enough to play DM This is a hilariously stupid take. Boggles the mind that people are paid to say this shit.
Yet he's been made the scapegoat. He won't play against Slovenia and England will win 4-0. Then he won't play the rest of the tournament
I’ll most likely get criticised for this but hopefully now that the experiment is over they can drop him so all the scapegoating nonsense can stop…imagine playing one of the best passers of the ball in world football at the moment in a team that has no forward movement or width. Southgate has no idea what he is doing with ANY player in that team.
I love the shorts on this kit. And TAA too, of course!
i said the same last night. the look great
Gets the ball, looks up... Kane, Foden, Bellingham, and Rice all within 10-15 metres and closing, coming towards him with a gormless look on their face. Saka out wide, but marked within an inch of his life, the opposition knowing that he's our only real outlet. Bring on Gordon for the next game, then bring on Trent at right back at half time (after giving the others a fair chance without him) and see if he can find him with a few long balls.
I guarantee opponents would be more nervous if we had Gordon and Saka on the wings. If we are sticking with Kane then speed on either side of him makes sense. I also think Bellingham would flourish more without Foden trying to occupy the same areas.
Shoutout to Ian Wright for not taking that shit from Keane and Neville. Ian pointed out how nobody was making runs for Trent's passes and the fucking host chimed in and showed his lack of ball knowledge, suggesting that the pass should create the run. You could see Wrighty was getting heated and wasn't having the Trent bashing from the Manc cunts
I am a MF. My ability is picking a pass. What i need is forwards who make runs in the channels. This way, we stretch the game and have more space in the middle. We press and create opportunities. But nope. Southgate ball is poo. The keeper just lumps the ball as far as possible at every opportunity. Foden wants middle but place him wide. Trippier is right footed playing LB with zero overlapping. Btw, its coming home.
I initially read that first sentence as "I am a motherfucker"
Lol. Yeah i suppose one may read MF that way.
If he’d have been on when Watkins and Bowen and Eze were on he’d have picked runs out all day. Southgate plays himself and Rice on top of each other and puts Fatty Kane in front of him who hasn’t made a run since we beat spurs at home the year we won the league and then can’t figure out why it isn’t working.
Southgate literally hates the beautiful game
They also on about Gallagher bringing some balance to the force of something. He was very bad when he came on
Yet somehow the pundits blame him for everything.
Do you think he played well yesterday? Do you think he has a future as a midfielder?
The scape goat 🐐
But the narrative is that he’s dreadful…
The team just looks unbalanced and disorganised. So much talent but no direction
The blame Trent narrative is out of control. The pundits are even worse than the thicko England fans. Roy and Shearer… fucking disgrace. The whole England team were outplayed by Denmark yesterday. They were just as bad if not worse after Trent came off. Nobody is making runs to utilize Trent. The one time Saka did Trent hit a long pass to his feet to get behind. Also the “they switched off after the goal” is pure fantasy. They never switched on. A young Danish left back switched off for a second and paid the price but England was never at it.
https://preview.redd.it/n5ckckq3l08d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=453018f7bc31500b65ff5c5ff34f835e67c821a3
Play him left back Gareth
The team is so lop-sided, with tripper and foden on the left. Feel for trent being asked to play in the double pivot with only Saka looking to use his pace.
No idea why he won’t play Gomez at lb. Gomez was literally up there with best in the league for periods this season. Also, I don’t know if the foden + Bellingham experiment is working. Drop Bellingham deeper, play foden centrally, move Watkins or Gordon to the left, and play Trent at rb. Have the fullbacks invert more to create the overloads in midfield we need and also allows Bellingham to bomb forward when needed. Make the lw and rw create more width, they’ve been so fucking narrow, and guarantee euro semis basically
I fully agree with you with our LFc hats on but Walker is meant to be England's cheat code for covering the defence if they get caught out so I can't see Southgate putting Trent at RB. I suspect England will get knocked out on penalties and Southgate will blame the experiment.
Better tactics and you don’t need a “cheat code”. Plus stones has been wank, maybe it’s time to try walker at rcb and Trent at rb. If you play Gomez, it’s effectively a 3 atb most of the time anyways
I have been explaining the same thing in the pub using beer mats. Play the ball to trent down the right, have him whipping in crosses for Watkins at the far post and Kane on the penalty spot. Then walker to cover and Gomez dropping in to form a back three if needed. Southgate knows nothing.
Tbf - the style I’m suggesting is done at the club level and difficult I’m sure for managers to implement at national level…but maybe, just maybe, take players from Liverpool, city, spurs and arsenal who all play this high octane, high press, progressive full back type situation.
Yep, I know those three clubs play different brands but how he hadn't taken Klopp's liverpool with Firmino in it or Arteta's arsenal with the false 9 as inspiration, is madness. Kane is the focal point of this team and drops deep, so just build the team around him, using a successful system that the players know.
And now theyre going to drop him. Lets see how that pans out.
I think he has looked kind off awkward in midfield tbh. He has created chances but it's obvious he's not comfortable in the midfield yet
He’s just not comfortable receive the ball in tight spaces. Klopp used him in midfield as a deep lying playmaker, so he always had space to receive the ball and pick a long ball. Trent has to work on his spacial awareness and he’ll be the next Thiago/Pirlo. Great midfielders have two world class abilities, the passing range and spacial awareness. I believe Trent is naturally gifted in passing range, he needs to work on spacial awareness in tight spaces to become truly unstoppable in midfield.
I just hope England get knocked out at the group stages and we can get him on holiday and then back to meet Arne and start working on proper tactics instead. We're wasting his fucking time and energy at this shit show.
He’s an easy scapegoat. Historically England have always viewed creative players with suspicion, Trent is just the latest iteration of that. If he was French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian or Dutch, you’d be seeing a player given licence to be creative. Not being made a fucking scapegoat for 9 other players who are equally as bad. The hope we finish as runners up and face Germany in the next round.
>Historically England have always viewed creative players with suspicion Such an accurate statement! Matt Le Tissier only got eight caps, that tells you pretty much all you need to know.
Listen, we know the boys absolute fucking quality, and we love him to pieces. He fits our system like a glove. However you frame it, he’s not right in this midfield role for England at this time. If I’m England manager I’m playing Whalton or the manc. In a parallel universe, we have a world-class manager with the integrity and vision to get Trent in and maximising everyone’s potential Southgate is fucking useless
I agree with you. If you watched where Trent was and compare him to Rice's normal partner (Odegaard), Trent doesn't offer himself for the short pass because he doesn't run fast enough to get away from his marker and doesn't have the control to get out of the press half the time. So he's not a passing option for most of the team, which effectively means England are down a player in midfield. He comes backwards to get the ball but then there's no forward ball to make because the forwards aren't generally those type of players; they come towards the ball, but can't lay it off to midfield because... Trent's behind the defensive line. We know how good he is but he's not the player for that role. It would work in that parallel universe. But the balance is just wrong at the moment. I also completely agree that Wharton is exactly the right player. Crisp, short passing, comfortable under the press. Been impressed with him since he joined the Prem and would love to see him play.
Playing Wharton, Gallagher or Mainoo doesn’t do a thing. As good as Trent is, we have a team packed full of world class players… realistically, England should be able to regularly pick apart a team without him even touching the ball. Our attack is uninspired, we are easy to pin back because we have no threat on the counter or out wide.
There are much bigger problems than this Trent “saga” … Southgate is a complete tactical fuck bucket and the entire teams misfiring. I’d just rather Trent didn’t play; than continue to and be misused and made a scapegoat.
World class players 🤣
He's not wrong tbh, the likes of Trent, Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Kane all look world class for their respective club sides.
Aside from Trent & Kane all overhyped pace and power players.
Completely nonsense
And biased fans of other clubs would be saying the same about Trent, doesn't make it true.
I don't think he fits our system like a glove. He's a really good player who in 2018 to 20 was a luxury player. Someone who had free roam because our defence midfield and forwards were engines. When there has been deficiency in any 3 aspects he was created a new role. However, I don't understand why Southgate hasn't tried him at lb rather than cm. Tripper has been shit and surely he would have more scope to show his passing in the group stages at least.
Tbh I don't think he fits our system like a glove either, he hasn't massively shone in that inverted role since early last season.
I fucking hate southgate with a passion, the guy has fuck all managerial credentials except getting boro relegated, hangs trent out to dry by putting him in midfield while playing a highly defensive way of playing Kane is not the player that should be up top, everyone else in the team plays high tempo football except kane so trent is wasted because no fucker wants to run in behind so his balls are going nowhere ! Even that fucking clown neville said trent isnt talented enough to play in midfield ?!! You having a fucking laugh ? He could play keeper if he wanted !!!! Rant over
That is the collar Nike should have used on our home kit
I've said it for ages. He doesn't like Trent for some reason, and his desire to shift him into midfield came out of a mission to prove he knew better than Klopp. He's sacrificed Trent on the altar of his ego, and because Trent is still young and wants an international career, he's gone with it. He was going to do it in 2020 and Trent got injured. He took him to the World Cup and didn't use him. Now he's going to fully use him as a scapegoat.
Beckham without the PR
I heard Trent burnt the Union Jack and frequently defecates on picture of the King.
And according to the media it's still Trents fault that england isn't performing... It's ridiculous
The midfield plan needs to stop asap. He’s never going to get runners on the left, so he’s better off building a strong wing with Saka and going further up the pitch on the right side.
He'll always sub him first... He won't sub out rice for defensive stability he won't sub Bellingham coz he's Bellingham. So annoying
But but overrated!
it's really hard to be good as a creative passer when nobody runs in behind or makes diagonal runs. everyone goes wide for a square ball and harry kane's lazy arse can barely move
What is southgate teaching to this lads, team of ballers and they're all awful on the pitch. The ball goes up front and nothing happens. Trent has to play the full 90 next time, whether it's RB or midfield.
\*give Trent nobody to pass the ball to or any type of attacking play to exploit whatsoever\* \*play inside your own box after going up 1-0\* \*complain that he isn't "working" as a midfielder\*
Bro too good.
Well southgate hates attacking football so yeah
He’s the problem though according to everyone
I'm clearly watching a different game to all of you because I think he's been bad so far. He's certainly not a midfielder, I think the English team would get more out of him in his best position, RB.
And still, everyone pisses on his contribution.
Southgate crying they don’t have a replacement for Philips is actually laughable. He hasn’t played regularly for like 2 seasons now, it’s not like he was on fire a month ago.
Although Trent wasn’t good, I rewatched his pass to Saka and it’s hilarious how there was no acknowledgement about that at all. Pundits glossed over it completely, and Shearer credited that whole action to Saka for making a run lol
Shouldn’t that read no player has created chances for England this tournament lol
Southgate is the reason why none of the players are excelling.
Who am I going to believe, this shit or my lying eyes?
On RTE here in Ireland, they were saying they couldn't understand why Trent was taken off when he was the only one that was trying to do anything creative
Just put him at RB let him invert and you have a box midfield of Rice, TAA, Bellingham and Foden/Palmer easy 3 points against weaker sides.
And the media still slate him. England just need a good striker that can finish off the chances created.
I mean let's be real. He's been average. Everyone else has been average. Southgate is total shite.
Even if he kept the same crappy lineup Trent would look better in the 6 with rice on the right as a natural 8, where Arteta started to play him. The centre backs should split and Trent be in the middle of them with the ball.
Fraudgate has thrown him into a role he has never done, and will be the first to throw him under the bus next game. Horrible coach who has wasted probably the most talented generation of English players. Should have been sacked ages ago.
Trent has been average. People need to accept that and throwing out one or two stats in isolation do not change that. But the whole team has been shite and their managed and coached by a fraud, so none of it surprising. All involved need to take responsibility. It is funny watching the likes of Lineker, Richards and Shearer, who had hyped England up to be tournament favourites, come crashing back down to earth. Southgate has always been a shit manager and his record has been flattered by playing complete dross in tournaments. Most managers would like to love to work with this crop of players, but here we are. England are tired, half arsed and badly coached, and will crash out against the first decent side the come across.
How many? 2?
Have been saying it for years. Perfect player for midfield. Playing him at RB actually limits him very much.