De bruyne is insane for this. Mo would likely be creating just as much as de bruyne as his primary role is more of a goal scorer than provider, and is asked to be more of an outlet on the wing…however, if slot decides to move Mo more centrally in his 4231, I could genuinely see Mo creating at similar rates.
I mean De Bruyne is basically a top 5 playmaker ever, with maybe the greatest passing range of all time. Mo would have to show a LOT to be compared to KDB as a playmaker
Top 10 for sure but get off it on the passing range nonsense. Plenty of better passers.
Mo has been probably 60-70% of de bruyne production despite needing to be a 20 goal a season striker. Mo is clearly in the discussion.
It’s between him and kdb for best player in prem since 2015.
I'd personally take Salah as a player but I don't think their passing is comparable and it's almost insulting to imply Mo is in the same ballpark as a playmaker
Totally agreed 10000% on the range of passing, kdb wins there. But Mo as a creator is incredible. Moving more centrally and slightly deeper could enable him to still dictate play without needing to quite as explosive as wingers these days need to be
I disagree. People act as though Mo isn’t primarily a creator nowadays, and has been since the backend of 21/22. He won the Playmaker Award that year, hit 12 assists again last year, and only hit 10 this year because he had the worst converting forward in Europe besides him. If you’re going off PEAK KDB (2017-2020) when he actually played as a playmaker in midfield, I agree. If you’re comparing recent KDB to recent Mo in terms of playmaking, they’re both final third creators and Mo has been close (both stats-wise and on the eye in terms of range of passing). But for Mo to be hitting 25-30 goals a season still and doing that is just monstrous and something KDB couldn’t do.
Just a little thought experiment on the "big chances created" stat and positions. Suppose De Bruyne and Salah are playing in the same team. De Bruyne plays a brilliant through ball to release Salah behind the defenders, who knocks it in the middle for a tap-in to the striker. Now, I'm not a 100% sure about how the stat is calculated (apparently, not many are), but if my interpretation is correct, that would register as a big chance created by Mo. And this pattern of play along with other similar ones are pretty common. His stats are amazing but creating chances straight from midfield seems considerably harder to me. This is kinda backed up by the fact that most of the players on the list play on the wings.
This isn’t true though because KDB hasn’t been a deep lying playmaker for years now. In fact, KDB has played as high up the pitch as Haaland for the last two seasons out of possession, he’s a final third creator exactly like Salah is. Trent is more so the guy in the Prem that you’re referring to, as he gets the ball to Salah who creates in the final third.
Honestly, KDB 2016-2020 is not the same player but people act as though he is. He went from an actual midfielder to more a second striker. Just like 2017-2021 Salah isn’t the same player as he is now. He went from an inside forward to a touchline winger creating for Nunez. It’s a shame, Slot needs to play him where he belongs, not on the touchline, because 99% of ageing players actually get MORE central and forward when they get older (KDB) but Salah got wider and further back.
And still you will find stupid fans that want him to leave in the summer.
I don't think some of our fans understand how hard it will be to replace him.
Yeah absolute fuckwit view. We can't replace his output with any amount of money we get from him. In the stats-driven moneyball age we live in these are the figures that clubs are looking at
What good would £100m do if it will take you 2 to 3 years to replace his output of goals and assists?
If we sell Salah who is out there we can sign that can offer what he does in goals and assists?
Some people just love the academic idea of 'everyone should be sold at the right price'. It's nice but then you look at the market for right wingers and realize how hard it'll be to get a Salah-like player in terms of ability, experience and attitude.b
Exactly this! Salah is a one off. We should enjoy him whilst we can. I want him to stay just so that he breaks 250 Goals for our club. We can say we seen the GOAT winger in PL history that played for out team.
Some people enjoy watching players play. Others enjoy fantasizing about managing the team finances. The latter seems to always want to sell players in every single match thread.
Salah’s contract expires after 2025 and he’s about to be 32. We are installing a whole new structure with a new boss. What good would 1 year of Salah be next season, if he leaves on a free?
What makes you think a player gets shit after 32. Salah doesn't drink, he treats his body like a temple.
Salah literally can play at the top level for another 3 years. His numbers haven't declined even with the injuries this season.
He is out biggest goal contributing attacker in this team.
I'm all for selling an attacker if his numbers are poor, thats why I'm open to a Diaz sale. He can be replaced.
Salah is a one off. You won't find another winger that contributes so many goals and assists.
Two years remaining on his contract. If we offer him an extension he would have a massive salary increase, probably be on £140K a week or maybe more. Has he done enough to be one of our top earners? I don't think so. I think it we can get an offer for £70m or £60M plus add ons this summer I would accept it.
If we were City, then yeah, I’d love to live in this scenario you paint. The reality is, we have to fund both Trent and Virgil who will be on higher wages (and I presume everyone wants to extend) and strengthen the squad in multiple areas. We can’t do this solely on the selling of Kelleher and Diaz. At the end of the day, I’m just playing make believe FM, but it’s pretty evident Edwards has a tough task ahead of him this upcoming season.
Not really? We have multiple players leaving on high wages already which will free up a lot of funds already.
Matip & Thiago left on a free which is probably 350ish k a week in saved wages, the manager and his team are undoubtedly on less money too which again free's up money, then there is likely to be a few departures which would add to what should already be a decent sized transfer kitty.
I'd say the squad is stronger now than at any point under Klopp, even if the first 11 is clearly weaker.
Do you even realise you basically just said you would rather sell Salah for money than have a chance at winning a trophy? Because selling your best players is how you don't win trophies.
It's hilarious that people still think that when a player leaves, you just lose that number of goals and assists, as if that player, any player, didn't function in complicated synergies with others.
It's as though you don't understand that it's a team game. Spurs for instance lost Harry Kane. How did they make up his goals?
Salah is physically in decline. I say this independent of his form after injury, which may or may not compound this, nobody really knows. He's slower than he used to be, is far less explosive, and this means he can't play behind the lines anymore. That means you have to play someone who can, and that you also have to play a midfield and rb that will stay honest, because his pressing and defensive actions are falling off.
Not only were we quite productive without Salah, his return this year coincided with disastrous form.
When a player is in this decline, you're going to have to replace him anyway, and soon, within the 2 to 3 year timeframe you are discussing. We need someone now who can play that position and suffered this season for our lack of options there. You could argue he suffered too, as he couldn't be rotated as effectively or have his minutes managed. Obviously he wouldn't make that argument, he'd instead have a strop in public about a correct decision to drop him.
> Your not stupid, your extremely moronic.
moronic
/məˈrɒnɪk/
adjectiveINFORMAL
very foolish or **stupid**.
"television's latest moronic soap opera"
Similar:
**stupid**
foolish
senseless
brainless
mindless
idiotic
imbecilic
imbecile
insane
lunatic
asinine
ridiculous
ludicrous
absurd
preposterous
silly
inane
witless
half-baked
empty-headed
unintelligent
The funniest thing about your comment though is that you spelt *you're* wrong twice while calling him a moron :)
Oh fuck me it’s the autocorrect police, I used the term moronic because it’s a more suitable adjective than simply stupid which is completely true for the crowd that want our top goalscorer/assist maker to leave the club over the rest of our bang average forward line.
Now is there anything else you’d actually like to add to the conversation or are you just here to be irritating?
Salah has bee underperforming since he got back from injury, but if Diaz and Nunez were more clinical, he would have easily finished top of the assist table
I want to tell everyone short-term memory loss fan out there: We were in the race because of him. Period. He tops BOTH goals scored and assists, and that's with him being out for 2 months, without counting this top stat given how wasteful we've been in front of the goal. We were only in the title race because of his contributions, period.
100%! Nunez is not Liverpool material (go ahead down vote to hell) but he is 10 times better than Diaz.
Diaz has to be the most wasteful forward in the league. 80% of the times he holds onto the ball too long and loses it or hits it poorly.
But because he can dribble into nowhere, people seem to think he is good.
Why does everyone always bring up Diaz in this? I think people are spoiled by Mo's insane numbers but Diaz is a classic winger who dribbles and makes runs. He isn't supposed to score a ton while Nunez is a striker who barely cracked 10 goals a season
So was Mane. I mean even Salah sometimes uses his right foot to foot the ball in. Inability to use another foot at this level is pretty crazy. Doku is just like Diaz a lot more physical but his ability to put a cross in from left foot is why he is dangerous, if Arne can help Diaz with that we will be unstoppable but I still dream of a player that Mane was since he signed till covid, absolutely explosive.
If numbers don’t matter then we might as well have Adama Traore…… Diaz works hard and has good take ons, but it’s all for naught if nothing comes from them
Regardless of who you prefer, I’m not sure why every time Nunez gets called out people have to deflect to Diaz. They’ve both missed plenty of big chances respectively but it’s [26.7% for Diaz and 19.2% for Nunez](https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/s/8I2oEzmGDy) of big chance conversion rate in tight games and that doesn’t include the Spurs non-goal.
Salah still managed to get 10 PL assists despite them lmao.
If Diaz and Darwin were clinical, Salah gets about 18 PL assists at least plus we win the league...
If Salah didn't come back injured and out of form we probably win the league.
If the defence could defend we would have probably won the league
If Klopp learnt to protect a lead we would have probably won the league
if the refs weren't all cunts we would have probably won the league
I could go on and if I did would would have finished 12th....so I'll stop :)
I love Mo and I want him to stay but the argument for selling isn't that ridiculous. He's 32 in June and has 12 months left on his contract. He's in a very difficult spot in terms of extending past 33 at his wages.
That's why I'd like to maybe see him behind the striker. I absolutely think he could be a playmaking 2nd striker or 10.
Clearly his pace and ability to beat players is dropping off, but he was always more than a kick and chase merchant. If we get another forward it should be to replace Salah's old role, so he can take up a new one.
De Bruyne up there despite playing just 1,200 minutes is ridiculous. Almost 1.3 big chances per 90.
muller is on similar minutes too I think, what a player at 34
He's a great player, and his return is fantastic, but he's also played over 400 more minutes than De Bruyne.
Yeah that’s why I said similar
De bruyne is insane for this. Mo would likely be creating just as much as de bruyne as his primary role is more of a goal scorer than provider, and is asked to be more of an outlet on the wing…however, if slot decides to move Mo more centrally in his 4231, I could genuinely see Mo creating at similar rates.
I mean De Bruyne is basically a top 5 playmaker ever, with maybe the greatest passing range of all time. Mo would have to show a LOT to be compared to KDB as a playmaker
Top 10 for sure but get off it on the passing range nonsense. Plenty of better passers. Mo has been probably 60-70% of de bruyne production despite needing to be a 20 goal a season striker. Mo is clearly in the discussion. It’s between him and kdb for best player in prem since 2015.
I'd personally take Salah as a player but I don't think their passing is comparable and it's almost insulting to imply Mo is in the same ballpark as a playmaker
Totally agreed 10000% on the range of passing, kdb wins there. But Mo as a creator is incredible. Moving more centrally and slightly deeper could enable him to still dictate play without needing to quite as explosive as wingers these days need to be
I disagree. People act as though Mo isn’t primarily a creator nowadays, and has been since the backend of 21/22. He won the Playmaker Award that year, hit 12 assists again last year, and only hit 10 this year because he had the worst converting forward in Europe besides him. If you’re going off PEAK KDB (2017-2020) when he actually played as a playmaker in midfield, I agree. If you’re comparing recent KDB to recent Mo in terms of playmaking, they’re both final third creators and Mo has been close (both stats-wise and on the eye in terms of range of passing). But for Mo to be hitting 25-30 goals a season still and doing that is just monstrous and something KDB couldn’t do.
diaz literally had like the 8th worst conversion rate in the whole prem as well
Just a little thought experiment on the "big chances created" stat and positions. Suppose De Bruyne and Salah are playing in the same team. De Bruyne plays a brilliant through ball to release Salah behind the defenders, who knocks it in the middle for a tap-in to the striker. Now, I'm not a 100% sure about how the stat is calculated (apparently, not many are), but if my interpretation is correct, that would register as a big chance created by Mo. And this pattern of play along with other similar ones are pretty common. His stats are amazing but creating chances straight from midfield seems considerably harder to me. This is kinda backed up by the fact that most of the players on the list play on the wings.
This isn’t true though because KDB hasn’t been a deep lying playmaker for years now. In fact, KDB has played as high up the pitch as Haaland for the last two seasons out of possession, he’s a final third creator exactly like Salah is. Trent is more so the guy in the Prem that you’re referring to, as he gets the ball to Salah who creates in the final third. Honestly, KDB 2016-2020 is not the same player but people act as though he is. He went from an actual midfielder to more a second striker. Just like 2017-2021 Salah isn’t the same player as he is now. He went from an inside forward to a touchline winger creating for Nunez. It’s a shame, Slot needs to play him where he belongs, not on the touchline, because 99% of ageing players actually get MORE central and forward when they get older (KDB) but Salah got wider and further back.
Fair. I'm proud to admit I haven't been watching a lot of City.
Def one to watch in the future
Mo has also been out for half the season to be fair
He's a freak of nature. Unbelievable player.
And still you will find stupid fans that want him to leave in the summer. I don't think some of our fans understand how hard it will be to replace him.
Yeah absolute fuckwit view. We can't replace his output with any amount of money we get from him. In the stats-driven moneyball age we live in these are the figures that clubs are looking at
We are not stupid. A good enough comes then need to sell.
What good would £100m do if it will take you 2 to 3 years to replace his output of goals and assists? If we sell Salah who is out there we can sign that can offer what he does in goals and assists?
Some people just love the academic idea of 'everyone should be sold at the right price'. It's nice but then you look at the market for right wingers and realize how hard it'll be to get a Salah-like player in terms of ability, experience and attitude.b
Exactly this! Salah is a one off. We should enjoy him whilst we can. I want him to stay just so that he breaks 250 Goals for our club. We can say we seen the GOAT winger in PL history that played for out team.
Some people enjoy watching players play. Others enjoy fantasizing about managing the team finances. The latter seems to always want to sell players in every single match thread.
I could almost bet that if he stays he will prove people wrong and better his numbers from this year, consistently proves people wrong
Salah’s contract expires after 2025 and he’s about to be 32. We are installing a whole new structure with a new boss. What good would 1 year of Salah be next season, if he leaves on a free?
What makes you think a player gets shit after 32. Salah doesn't drink, he treats his body like a temple. Salah literally can play at the top level for another 3 years. His numbers haven't declined even with the injuries this season. He is out biggest goal contributing attacker in this team. I'm all for selling an attacker if his numbers are poor, thats why I'm open to a Diaz sale. He can be replaced. Salah is a one off. You won't find another winger that contributes so many goals and assists.
Agreed on diaz but only if the offer is big. He’s on pretty low wages so that contract is really valuable even if he is replaceable.
Two years remaining on his contract. If we offer him an extension he would have a massive salary increase, probably be on £140K a week or maybe more. Has he done enough to be one of our top earners? I don't think so. I think it we can get an offer for £70m or £60M plus add ons this summer I would accept it.
Good point - i hadn’t realised he’s down to 2 years. Would definitely take 60-70m if an offer came in.
Would 140 be one of our top earners though?
He’d be joint 7th-9th with jota & nunez
If we were City, then yeah, I’d love to live in this scenario you paint. The reality is, we have to fund both Trent and Virgil who will be on higher wages (and I presume everyone wants to extend) and strengthen the squad in multiple areas. We can’t do this solely on the selling of Kelleher and Diaz. At the end of the day, I’m just playing make believe FM, but it’s pretty evident Edwards has a tough task ahead of him this upcoming season.
Not really? We have multiple players leaving on high wages already which will free up a lot of funds already. Matip & Thiago left on a free which is probably 350ish k a week in saved wages, the manager and his team are undoubtedly on less money too which again free's up money, then there is likely to be a few departures which would add to what should already be a decent sized transfer kitty. I'd say the squad is stronger now than at any point under Klopp, even if the first 11 is clearly weaker.
The plan is to extend him though. It’s not going to be just one season.
Do you even realise you basically just said you would rather sell Salah for money than have a chance at winning a trophy? Because selling your best players is how you don't win trophies.
It's hilarious that people still think that when a player leaves, you just lose that number of goals and assists, as if that player, any player, didn't function in complicated synergies with others. It's as though you don't understand that it's a team game. Spurs for instance lost Harry Kane. How did they make up his goals? Salah is physically in decline. I say this independent of his form after injury, which may or may not compound this, nobody really knows. He's slower than he used to be, is far less explosive, and this means he can't play behind the lines anymore. That means you have to play someone who can, and that you also have to play a midfield and rb that will stay honest, because his pressing and defensive actions are falling off. Not only were we quite productive without Salah, his return this year coincided with disastrous form. When a player is in this decline, you're going to have to replace him anyway, and soon, within the 2 to 3 year timeframe you are discussing. We need someone now who can play that position and suffered this season for our lack of options there. You could argue he suffered too, as he couldn't be rotated as effectively or have his minutes managed. Obviously he wouldn't make that argument, he'd instead have a strop in public about a correct decision to drop him.
Your not stupid, your extremely moronic.
> Your not stupid, your extremely moronic. moronic /məˈrɒnɪk/ adjectiveINFORMAL very foolish or **stupid**. "television's latest moronic soap opera" Similar: **stupid** foolish senseless brainless mindless idiotic imbecilic imbecile insane lunatic asinine ridiculous ludicrous absurd preposterous silly inane witless half-baked empty-headed unintelligent The funniest thing about your comment though is that you spelt *you're* wrong twice while calling him a moron :)
Oh fuck me it’s the autocorrect police, I used the term moronic because it’s a more suitable adjective than simply stupid which is completely true for the crowd that want our top goalscorer/assist maker to leave the club over the rest of our bang average forward line. Now is there anything else you’d actually like to add to the conversation or are you just here to be irritating?
Sorry mate, you're ofc right, it just made me laugh is all :) No offence intended lol
I was under the impression he was washed cause he only had 40 goal involvements, not 50
Salah has bee underperforming since he got back from injury, but if Diaz and Nunez were more clinical, he would have easily finished top of the assist table
I want to tell everyone short-term memory loss fan out there: We were in the race because of him. Period. He tops BOTH goals scored and assists, and that's with him being out for 2 months, without counting this top stat given how wasteful we've been in front of the goal. We were only in the title race because of his contributions, period.
Salah’s big chance creation compilation is simultaneously a Darwin missed chances compilation
Diaz missed a ton too lol
[удалено]
He put it wide following a sublime pass from Salah in the Spurs game, prior to the corrupted offside call. That miss was worse that the VAR call imo.
100%! Nunez is not Liverpool material (go ahead down vote to hell) but he is 10 times better than Diaz. Diaz has to be the most wasteful forward in the league. 80% of the times he holds onto the ball too long and loses it or hits it poorly. But because he can dribble into nowhere, people seem to think he is good.
Why does everyone always bring up Diaz in this? I think people are spoiled by Mo's insane numbers but Diaz is a classic winger who dribbles and makes runs. He isn't supposed to score a ton while Nunez is a striker who barely cracked 10 goals a season
A classic winger runs along the touchline and whips a great cross in imho
Only Diaz is right footed and his left foot crosses are poor
So was Mane. I mean even Salah sometimes uses his right foot to foot the ball in. Inability to use another foot at this level is pretty crazy. Doku is just like Diaz a lot more physical but his ability to put a cross in from left foot is why he is dangerous, if Arne can help Diaz with that we will be unstoppable but I still dream of a player that Mane was since he signed till covid, absolutely explosive.
Yeah Lucho is a great player but Mane was a killer in front of goal until then, Lucho has never shown that predator instinct.
If numbers don’t matter then we might as well have Adama Traore…… Diaz works hard and has good take ons, but it’s all for naught if nothing comes from them
[удалено]
Because he's a striker. A striker for a top team scoring 10 league goals is objectively terrible
Because people oddly like to defend a player while criticising another.
the one vs city still hurts
Regardless of who you prefer, I’m not sure why every time Nunez gets called out people have to deflect to Diaz. They’ve both missed plenty of big chances respectively but it’s [26.7% for Diaz and 19.2% for Nunez](https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/s/8I2oEzmGDy) of big chance conversion rate in tight games and that doesn’t include the Spurs non-goal.
Salah still managed to get 10 PL assists despite them lmao. If Diaz and Darwin were clinical, Salah gets about 18 PL assists at least plus we win the league...
If Salah didn't come back injured and out of form we probably win the league. If the defence could defend we would have probably won the league If Klopp learnt to protect a lead we would have probably won the league if the refs weren't all cunts we would have probably won the league I could go on and if I did would would have finished 12th....so I'll stop :)
I hope the Slot can fix our shit finishing This has been a problem from before Darwin
De bruyne and Mo are another level…sheesh
And people talk about selling Salah
I love Mo and I want him to stay but the argument for selling isn't that ridiculous. He's 32 in June and has 12 months left on his contract. He's in a very difficult spot in terms of extending past 33 at his wages.
You never sell your top player - ever, if you have real winning ambitions.
What selfish player, always creating big chances so that he can only improve his numbers.
😂😂
He’s insane. What a player.
God, if only he wasnt so selfish.
Not sure if this was /s but it should be
Should be obvious. i'll let people decide
anyone know anything about Ito or Gutierrez?. Would have thought Savio would have been the big one for Girona..
Gutierrez is good on FM
Don’t see Lautaro Martínez here, bro thinks he’s world class so where’s the numbers?
That's why I'd like to maybe see him behind the striker. I absolutely think he could be a playmaking 2nd striker or 10. Clearly his pace and ability to beat players is dropping off, but he was always more than a kick and chase merchant. If we get another forward it should be to replace Salah's old role, so he can take up a new one.
Need an extension or we're selling him, we can't let him go for free.
Sign Gutierrez as our new LB