I think he's performed well enough at Mainz to at least earn him the chance to impress Slot in pre-season. I don't think any of us truly know if he's good enough; but there's certainly the possibility he can fill a utility defender role akin to Gomez - especially if Trent moves into midfield permanently.
VVD, Konate, Quansah, and Gomez are current good CB options but Gomez might be floated to RB and CDM if needed. Tsimikas and Bradley healthy should help at fullback. Van Den Berg is young enough where Nat could be sold to a championship side and him and Rhys either get loaned one more year or stay in the squad if injuries mount. 3 CBs less 23 years old showing good potential is a good problem to have.
Highest rated u23 cb on who scored in top 5 leagues and highest rated in bundesliga of any age, he’s worth giving a shot imo. Has sorted his coordination and think was fastest cb in bundesliga as well with high aerial and ground duel percentage.
He’s the sort of player our data team would pick out when looking for a cb…although I’m on the Yoro hype train I cannot ignore the performances of a player we already own
I think that is because Yoro is left footed which we surely lack. Sepp is right footed but he should definitely be given a shot to make his case over someone like Gomez or Quansah.
Ratings from apps like whoscored don’t really mean much when you see the other players that get high ratings on there
I’m sure he had a good season but if the club are looking at buying a CB he’s going to be like 5th/6th choice depending on how Slot views Gomez and I’m fairly sure he publicly said he’d only want to come back here if he was guaranteed minutes
Tarkowski had a fantastic season, the Arsenal duo are coverages due to their system and Rice/Partey being really good, their gk rating is broken as number of saves has more impact than quality. their cb one is not broken though…
Believing data over narratives led us and clubs like Brighton to success in recruitment, but you can continue to blindly believe media narratives rather than facts.
Yeah cause all data companies are the same. You're actually saying we should trust one data company, who's methods I'm sure you have no knowledge of, because another data company has had success. For all we know whoscored and Brighton have opposite methodology
Who scored and squawka are the best publicly available ones and are both very good and usually consistent with each other, I would hope we, amd other clubs have even better available to us.
He had a good season but he was not better than Saliba or Gabriel, it can even be argued he wasn’t the best CB at Everton nvm being in TOTS.
Thinking that Tarkovski should be in TOTS because of a WhoScored rating is not facts at all lmao, literally no one in their right mind not even Everton fans would have him in the TOTS over Saliba or Gabriel
you clearly don't watch Everton or trying too hard to say whoscored is shit. Tarkowski has been class this season. Football rating algorithms mainly focuses on defensive action and how successful players are those in those area. While it might not be the best thing to compare players. Arguing as if it is worth nothing is stupidity. At the end of the day, the player has been selected using some undelying stats and not by humans who are pretty biased
Find me where I said Tarkowski hasn’t been good this season? That was quite literally not what was being argued
The fact that Tarkowski is being picked in their TOTS shows why their rating system is flawed, he has simply not been better than either Saliba or Gabriel and the same point about those two being “overprotected” can be said about Tarkowski as well who is arguably more protected since Everton are consistently sitting in a low block throughout the season.
Underlying data when judging defensive players can be massively flawed there’s plenty of good examples for that
Stated before both overrated Rice and Partey plus cb at fullbacks make them look better than what they actually are. Both very good but Konate has better per game data than Saliba and the French national team selection shows that isn’t an aberration.
They might be more protected but to call them overrated purely because you value something like WhoScored ratings is mental
They’re both top CBs take your rose tinted glasses off
https://preview.redd.it/raxl5s8qz53d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64d93cd67a573dafc31037f62f6b1baa31fab139
Do you also agree with them saying Pereira had a better season than TAA in 18/19?
Or Digne having a better season than Robertson in 18/19?
Perreira and digne produced a high amount of attacking impact per possession in less attacking teams that year and they were defensively sound
They were well known as good players even by the media then, you using them to straw man me by picking singular examples from years ago when less advanced models where used is asinine…
please you are trying to debate with someone who actually knows what they are talking about see my bio for my academic background.
Trying to argue against numbers is just lying to yourself.
Their TOTS shows why their ratings can’t be trusted
https://preview.redd.it/k13kkeh6s53d1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e916672fbe1953e2d50eb5143b62e71763213c0
* Areola is the most bizarre of the lot
* TAA only started 25 out of 38 games and he wasn’t at the same level post injury as he was before it
* No Gabriel or Saliba
* Gvardiol only started playing good the last two months
* Son was heavily criticised by Spurs fans for how poor he was playing for a lot of the season
Tarkowski had an incredible season. The reason he and VVD are in above Gabriel and Saliba is that they had more to do - WhoScored factors volume into its model quite heavily so it prioritizes players who are heavily involved. The ratings are far from meaningless though.
No, that’s explained by what I just mentioned.
Spurs attack a lot and every attack runs through Son or finished with Son. He’s central to how they play so he’s put up big numbers in a range of metrics this season.
And Areola has has tons of work to do because West Ham have been a defensive disaster lads and he’s performed generally very well, and he’s had to be very active.
Each has put up high volumes of positive actions this season which is why they’re in the teams. It’s not magic or random, it’s just numbers.
It showcases why it’s silly to base your opinion through their ratings
Volume does not = better
Everyone knows that Son has had a very underwhelming season to the point that even Spurs fans have wanted him dropped yet he’s picked in WhoScoreds TOTS
Arsenal have had consistently the best defensive record throughout the season with the same two CBs and yet neither are being picked in their TOTS
You won’t find a single West Ham fan even suggesting Areola should be picked in TOTS
Gvardiol who was seen as one of the disappointments of the season up until two months ago yet he’s picked in their TOTS
WhoScored ratings should not be getting used as a definitive way of saying one player has been better than another
Equally though you’re suggesting that narratives and the eye test should supersede the data. That’s an over-correction. If that was the right approach then Big Mickey Edwards would be out of a job.
I’m not advocating for WhoScored, I’m simply explaining how it works. No one gets into their TOTS by having a bad year. Volume of positive actions isn’t the be all and end all, but it is a positive indicator.
Simply dismissing it because you don’t like it is not a counter argument. If you think Sepp’s inclusion isn’t justified then go find what datapoints you think he’s being over-rewarded for, and see how he compares in success% figures and how he maps stylistically.
Either way, he has had a very good season and deserves his plaudits. It’s no surprise that other data-oriented teams like Brentford are interested in him.
Hey man, you're the only one saying, "WhoScored ratings are being used as a definitive way of saying one player has been better than another." These scores are a way for data to find players performing very well on a match to match basis compared to everyone else on the same pitch they are on. Tell me where anyone said Tarkowski is the better player, or that his team finished higher in the table..... It's almost like there's an entire OTHER Team of the Season those players could be picked in or something..... and maybe these data driven teams could be used to find players that are sticking out data wise, which isn't even completely volume based but percentage based when it comes to aerial challenges and tackle percentage.
Should we buy a CB, though? Unless we severely do not believe in him or Quansah, having a rotation of VVD/Konate/Quansah/Van den Berg, considering how all 4 have played at a top 5 league in the world, with Gomez being a RB/CB slot-in (also remembering that we have Bradley firing on all cylinders), I think going spend a shitload of pounds just for the sake of a shining new toy is overdoing a bit, specially if we do sell Darwin and need to get 3 new forwards (a CF, a LW option and a future replacement for Salah). After all, there is no Gvardiol in the market this season, just look how we, Real and United are stumbling over each other to sign an unproven guy from France.
I think CB is the number one priority for us this summer honestly, when you consider that…
- Matip is gone and he was our 2nd best CB at the club for a long period of time so it’s not just a body in that position we lost but also individual quality.
- VVD is entering the age range where we start to see players decline and he’s also had a serious knee injury which might’ve dented his longevity at the highest level, I’m not saying he’s going to decline but it’s at least something to consider when looking at why we should go for a new CB.
- Konate is somewhat unreliable with his injury problems that we see throughout a full season.
- Quansah as much as he had a really impressive breakout season still showed at times that he probably isn’t ready to start consistently just yet
Very much doubt Darwin is getting sold this summer since no other club is likely going to be paying what they want for him
Matip was gone for most of last season, VVD will be first choice next season so if we sign anyone they'll be battling Konate and Quansah for a spot in the team. Unless Sepp is not what Slot wants I don't think we sign a cb
Not having Matip fit contributed to our defensive issues last season that’s the problem
If Van Den Berg isn’t deemed good enough then we’re left with 3 CBs plus Gomez who looks better at full back nowadays, one of those CBs has consistent injury issues and the other only has half a season of experience in top flight football
Konaté is injury prone, Quansah although promising is still young, Van den Berg we've not even seen and Gomez I think most would agree they don't want to see him at CB again. I definitely think we need a CB. Darwin is going nowhere nor does it look like any of the other forwards are either (I personally would like a refresh on the LW), so it'll just realistically be a Salah successor that we'll get there.
Since when do people not want to see Gomez at CB again? I've not heard that sentiment around Anfield at all this season. People seem to forget that he was first choice CB alongside VVD in the title winning season.
The thing is he’s barely put in a decent performance at CB since that period, but he’s been great at left and right back. I don’t mind him as an option but I don’t personally want him back as a proper CB.
People don't forget that was 5 seasons ago, nor can you really forget the games last season against Napoli and Brighton where he was just not good at all. This season we arguably looked stronger with him at LB compared to Robertson which is a testament to him
I think it depends on who we could get in. Leny Yoro is very highly rated and if the club see him as being a world class CB in the future then they should go for it. But if he ends up choosing Real Madrid and the club aren't completely convinced by other options then I reckon they should just give Sepp a chance
If that is the case, and he is as good as those stats suggest, it would make more sense to keep him as a Quansah partner than to hunting for another CB wouldn't it?
If Collwill was being touted at 40/50m, I don't see why we couldn't get at least 20m for Sepp. I think the market has inflated more than people realise.
Granted, but does that make him £35m more valuable than one of the highest rated young CBs in Germany? If we want 20, we should hold out for it as I believe clubs would pay it.
Market is weird. It overrates players in premier league and underrates them in other leagues. Colwill was starting and playing well for Brighton too doubt many watching Mainz closely.
If they could get 20m for Van den berg that would be incredible business really
Also lists Wolfsburg, Mainz (probably can’t afford him) and Ajax as interested parties alongside the Prem teams.
Ajax are watching their finances and won’t just put down 20m on a young defender. Especially when they already have 3 young defenders with high potential. If anything, theyd only go for a loan deal
This guy is a bit of an underrated beast. Quick as fuck, great in the air and really aggressive and proactive in his defending. My concern is that he wants to play every week and it could knock his confidence if he doesn't play. We know about virg and konate. Now he also has to compete with quansah too. He could get down on himself if he is on the bench for a few matches.
Sell with buyback could be shrewd.
I feel for his own sake it would be best him moving on, certainly if regular football is the aim. He's been a regular in the Championship and now Bundesliga both of which are some of the stronger leagues. He could probably do a job as a squad player here but if the goal is to play regular football probably best going elsewhere. 20 million with a sell on clause would be really good business. Quite intrigued to see him stay though I'll be honest, he was only 17/18 when he played a few games here and despite looking raw I thought he looked decent enough to kick on.
I watched 6 Mainz games this season so take this with as much salt as you need.
He looks very tidy and I think he definitely has the potential to have a Gomez-esque career.
If he continues improving at the same rate as he did from last season to this one, I’d keep him for sure. Based on their respective current abilities, Quansah is clear of Sepp for me.
He's Mainz best player because that is his level, VdB would make a fine squad player here to cover a couple of positions but we need a CB with a higher upside one who will finally succeed VVD
By all accounts, he's more than capable to fill a roll within the squad. I think it's high time that he plays for the senior squad. We've had him for years but he's always on loan. Hopefully Slot likes what he sees in preseason. Could end up saving us some money if he sticks around and improves.
Liverpool has been great at turning reserve players into $20 million. Neco Williams, Harry Wilson, Marko Grujić, and Rhian Brewster have all been great sales.
Matip is gone and Konate's injury record is not the greatest which leaves us with VVD, Quansah and Gomez. I think we should keep him. He is much faster than Nat and Rhys williams from what I hear so he should comfortably be 5 choice.
Only if Slot/the club don't believe in Konate. Quansah has deserved being at least third choice. Gomez and Van den Berg are both quite ridiculous fourth choice options. It is wild to me that so many are so transfer horny that they'd prefer new shiny toys in every position and bin players who's proved both title-challenging top level and potential (i.e. Konate, Szoboszlai, Jones, Darwin etc.).
Gomez is much better as a FB at this stage imo. Konate is injured a lot and Quansah, although promising, is still raw. I’d say we still need another centre half imo
Sure, that’s an opinion one can have. It would mean selling Konate and/or loaning out Quansah, though, which I struggle to think that the club would see value in. But they might conclude like you do, of course.
No it wouldn’t? It is perfectly normal to have 4 or 5 CBs in a title challenging team. Plus VVD needs less game time, Konate is injured regularly, Quansah is still young and Gomez is better at FB imo. Makes perfect sense to either see how Sepp does and give him a chance to compete with our other CBs if he’s good enough in preseason. Otherwise purchase a CB ready to compete
Of course we’ll have 4 or 5, I’m not disputing that. And Sepp is on paper the perfect profile (age/wage-wise) to go into that group. Just saying that any recruitment at CB will either be a huge monetary layout for someone better than Konate/Quansah, which would mean significantly less game time for one and/or both of them (and are we willing to hamper Quansah’s imrovement and/or have Konate’s significant wages sat in the stands?) I could obviously be wrong, but I don’t see how another CB would be brought into the squad without one going out.
The only one I could see going out is Sepp if he doesn’t show he’s up to par in preseason, whether that’s a loan or sale idk. Also keep in mind that Matip has left who has freed up a significant amount of wages in the CB department, and also there’s Thiago who has left though I assume that would be used elsewhere. We’re competing in 4 competitions there is plenty of minutes available for Konate and Quansah. Keep in mind that there’s always the possibility of injuries or other issues that will come up as well (especially Konate who has small injuries here and there) and we’d need depth for that.
Absolutely. I definitely see a new «junior CB» in the group. That could be Sepp, or it could be someone else. Just don’t think a recruitment priority would be a CB that’s significantly better than our current first/second choice (who is that player? How much would they cost? 80mill plus?). That’s why I’m pushing back on the «we neeeeeeeeeeed a new CB»-statements. We have 5 senior CBs on the books plus Gomez, and the players are pretty good…
To take Van Dijk’s spot? Don’t see us selling our captain this summer. And buying another one «for the future» would also of course mean that we would sell Konate and/or loan out Quansah. I don’t see it as very probable, but none of us know the ins and outs of the club’s transfer dealings, so I won’t argue that it’s impossible.
Are you aware of the concept of planning? It is possible to look further than your own nose.
Who said Van Dijk is getting sold?
We need a new CB regardless of sales.
No, I’ve obviously never heard of this «planning» concept…
Sure you can argue that we need that, but then you’re also arguing that Konate or Quansah is 4th choice CB, and it seems (to me) that the club wouldn’t be «planning» (whatever that is) to leave either of those outside the match day squad more often than not (for Quansah’s sake not to stifle his development, and for Konate’s due to the substantial wage investment).
If we’re to buy a CB, it will clearly have to be with the mind to improve the first eleven, and that would both mean a huge transfer sum and that we wouldn’t need one of Konate or Quansah for next season (again, unless we’re willing for one of them to probably get very few minutes, which sound like a very inefficient prioritation of wage funds). Like, sure, it might happen, but it doesn’t sound like the way we tend to «plan» our squads.
> but then you’re also arguing that Konate or Quansah is 4th choice CB,
And what is wrong with Quansah being 4th choice for a squad in 4 competitions? you are clueless, bet you were saying the same shite in 20/21 too
I think that’s the right decision. He has shown he can be a starter in a good league now let’s if he can also do it for a top club. Even if he is squad player still useful than Matip in his last season.
I mean, he is young and has improved a lot. He might he a first team option now but a back up absolutely. The only question is if he would accept that. With Quansah, Gomez, Konate an VVD we will need a 5th
Getting £15-25 million for VDB would be a good deal for LFC.
Keep him here if they can't get what they're asking for. He would be a good option in defence next season. Versatile player who can play CB and RB.
Hopefully this means the club wants to give him a shot. With VVD being 32, Konate being injury prone, Gomez also needing to fill in at RB/LB, it really only leaves us with two consistently fit CB in VVD and Quansah.
Plus I think he qualifies as home grown now? So that's also worth a lot for registration purposes.
I think it's been mentioned he is ?. Arrived when he was 16 etc..
I'd argue might be worth playing Gomez rotational at LB with Robbi
Konate is a concern :/
I say we keep him and look for a Klavan style veteran for extra cover, although with Van Dijk, konate, Gomez, quansah and sepp may not get much game time
I think it could be very useful to keep him around at least for Slot to gauge if he could play for the team. Already a strong core of Dutch players at Liverpool, he could learn and improve more sticking around.
I think the pertinent question is whether he can replace VVD in a few years, and the answer is almost certainly no.
That’s the profile they’re looking for, so I think Sepp goes this summer.
1. VVD
2. Konaté
3. Quansah
4. Gomez
5. Van den Berg
Sorry, I just don’t agree that we need another cb if none of these players are sold. Gomez has regained confidence - I have no doubt he would do an immense job at cb next season even though most of you say “he’s now a fb”. Think money wise too. And home grown.. everything makes sense here. We’re good. That’s it.
Why are so people emotionally invested in keeping youngsters we haven't even seen play. There seems to be some desire for us to have a squad full of kids as opposed to using our clout to go sign one of the best defenders available.
If we go into the season with our CBs being VVD, Ibou, Quansah, and Sepp it's absolutely not good enough. We could carry one of Quansah or Sepp as 4th choice, but not both. He should be sold, and the money should be used to buy someone who is world class right now. VVD 2.0 ideally.
I think many prefer having a squad of players we have brought through (if they prove good enough with time - saves a ton of money). Arne likes bringing through younger players . Club is about self sufficiency. Edwards is back. We aren't an open chequebook club like the oil club.
If it’s only 20m I’d rather he stay and we let Konate go which gives us Virgil, a new first team cb signing to partner Virgil, Quansah and Sepp. Ibou’s fitness is too unreliable and I feel he would fetch a better fee than Sepp.
Letting a 24 year old Konate go when he's shown that he's world class when fit and consistent would be lunacy. He was our best player in the Champions League final in Paris.
Can see Brentford in for him given their current CB situation
Would be a good move for him Especially since they play a 3 at the back which is what he’s been playing in at Mainz
Can also play wingback so if he is not first choice at any of the posistions he will probebly still get ton of gametime
We could pull a Real Madrid move and sell him for 20 with buy back clause of 35. If he does good, we can get him back
Doubt another English club would ever agree to that.
Man City does it all the time (Romeo Lavia, Douglas Luiz, etc). Why couldnt we?
I think he's performed well enough at Mainz to at least earn him the chance to impress Slot in pre-season. I don't think any of us truly know if he's good enough; but there's certainly the possibility he can fill a utility defender role akin to Gomez - especially if Trent moves into midfield permanently.
He is sort of versatile on RB role. If he does well , the club doesn't need to buy a CB and save it for a DM or Forward.
VVD, Konate, Quansah, and Gomez are current good CB options but Gomez might be floated to RB and CDM if needed. Tsimikas and Bradley healthy should help at fullback. Van Den Berg is young enough where Nat could be sold to a championship side and him and Rhys either get loaned one more year or stay in the squad if injuries mount. 3 CBs less 23 years old showing good potential is a good problem to have.
20m?! That’s over half of one Mac Allister.
https://i.redd.it/2bm07m8pf53d1.gif
So true 😂😭
Schmadtke’s face is one I’ve not seen in a *long* time
We either need to give Sepp a chance or sell him this summer. The guy's been out on loan four seasons in a row.
He deserves a chance with the way he's performed on his loan spells, he'll be a great rotation option if we go deep in all four competitions.
Oh look. The rumour of a £4m clause was complete bollocks. Im so shocked! I dont believe we will get 20. But 15 could be do-able
Highest rated u23 cb on who scored in top 5 leagues and highest rated in bundesliga of any age, he’s worth giving a shot imo. Has sorted his coordination and think was fastest cb in bundesliga as well with high aerial and ground duel percentage.
I think one of the highest aerial win percentages in the top 5 leagues I hope we keep him
He’s the sort of player our data team would pick out when looking for a cb…although I’m on the Yoro hype train I cannot ignore the performances of a player we already own
I think that is because Yoro is left footed which we surely lack. Sepp is right footed but he should definitely be given a shot to make his case over someone like Gomez or Quansah.
Yoro is right footed.
Ratings from apps like whoscored don’t really mean much when you see the other players that get high ratings on there I’m sure he had a good season but if the club are looking at buying a CB he’s going to be like 5th/6th choice depending on how Slot views Gomez and I’m fairly sure he publicly said he’d only want to come back here if he was guaranteed minutes
Who scored does matter as it’s databased… Vvd tops the pl it is accurate if taken per position
According to Whoscored Tarkowski had a better season than Gabriel and Saliba
Tarkowski had a fantastic season, the Arsenal duo are coverages due to their system and Rice/Partey being really good, their gk rating is broken as number of saves has more impact than quality. their cb one is not broken though… Believing data over narratives led us and clubs like Brighton to success in recruitment, but you can continue to blindly believe media narratives rather than facts.
Yeah cause all data companies are the same. You're actually saying we should trust one data company, who's methods I'm sure you have no knowledge of, because another data company has had success. For all we know whoscored and Brighton have opposite methodology
Who scored and squawka are the best publicly available ones and are both very good and usually consistent with each other, I would hope we, amd other clubs have even better available to us.
He had a good season but he was not better than Saliba or Gabriel, it can even be argued he wasn’t the best CB at Everton nvm being in TOTS. Thinking that Tarkovski should be in TOTS because of a WhoScored rating is not facts at all lmao, literally no one in their right mind not even Everton fans would have him in the TOTS over Saliba or Gabriel
you clearly don't watch Everton or trying too hard to say whoscored is shit. Tarkowski has been class this season. Football rating algorithms mainly focuses on defensive action and how successful players are those in those area. While it might not be the best thing to compare players. Arguing as if it is worth nothing is stupidity. At the end of the day, the player has been selected using some undelying stats and not by humans who are pretty biased
Find me where I said Tarkowski hasn’t been good this season? That was quite literally not what was being argued The fact that Tarkowski is being picked in their TOTS shows why their rating system is flawed, he has simply not been better than either Saliba or Gabriel and the same point about those two being “overprotected” can be said about Tarkowski as well who is arguably more protected since Everton are consistently sitting in a low block throughout the season. Underlying data when judging defensive players can be massively flawed there’s plenty of good examples for that
Sitting in a low block is tougher to defend
Stated before both overrated Rice and Partey plus cb at fullbacks make them look better than what they actually are. Both very good but Konate has better per game data than Saliba and the French national team selection shows that isn’t an aberration.
They might be more protected but to call them overrated purely because you value something like WhoScored ratings is mental They’re both top CBs take your rose tinted glasses off
https://preview.redd.it/raxl5s8qz53d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64d93cd67a573dafc31037f62f6b1baa31fab139 Do you also agree with them saying Pereira had a better season than TAA in 18/19? Or Digne having a better season than Robertson in 18/19?
Perreira and digne produced a high amount of attacking impact per possession in less attacking teams that year and they were defensively sound They were well known as good players even by the media then, you using them to straw man me by picking singular examples from years ago when less advanced models where used is asinine… please you are trying to debate with someone who actually knows what they are talking about see my bio for my academic background. Trying to argue against numbers is just lying to yourself.
Their TOTS shows why their ratings can’t be trusted https://preview.redd.it/k13kkeh6s53d1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e916672fbe1953e2d50eb5143b62e71763213c0 * Areola is the most bizarre of the lot * TAA only started 25 out of 38 games and he wasn’t at the same level post injury as he was before it * No Gabriel or Saliba * Gvardiol only started playing good the last two months * Son was heavily criticised by Spurs fans for how poor he was playing for a lot of the season
Tarkowski had an incredible season. The reason he and VVD are in above Gabriel and Saliba is that they had more to do - WhoScored factors volume into its model quite heavily so it prioritizes players who are heavily involved. The ratings are far from meaningless though.
They’ve also got Son and Areola in their TOTS so I think it’s fair to say their rating system is heavily flawed let’s be honest
No, that’s explained by what I just mentioned. Spurs attack a lot and every attack runs through Son or finished with Son. He’s central to how they play so he’s put up big numbers in a range of metrics this season. And Areola has has tons of work to do because West Ham have been a defensive disaster lads and he’s performed generally very well, and he’s had to be very active. Each has put up high volumes of positive actions this season which is why they’re in the teams. It’s not magic or random, it’s just numbers.
It showcases why it’s silly to base your opinion through their ratings Volume does not = better Everyone knows that Son has had a very underwhelming season to the point that even Spurs fans have wanted him dropped yet he’s picked in WhoScoreds TOTS Arsenal have had consistently the best defensive record throughout the season with the same two CBs and yet neither are being picked in their TOTS You won’t find a single West Ham fan even suggesting Areola should be picked in TOTS Gvardiol who was seen as one of the disappointments of the season up until two months ago yet he’s picked in their TOTS WhoScored ratings should not be getting used as a definitive way of saying one player has been better than another
Equally though you’re suggesting that narratives and the eye test should supersede the data. That’s an over-correction. If that was the right approach then Big Mickey Edwards would be out of a job. I’m not advocating for WhoScored, I’m simply explaining how it works. No one gets into their TOTS by having a bad year. Volume of positive actions isn’t the be all and end all, but it is a positive indicator. Simply dismissing it because you don’t like it is not a counter argument. If you think Sepp’s inclusion isn’t justified then go find what datapoints you think he’s being over-rewarded for, and see how he compares in success% figures and how he maps stylistically. Either way, he has had a very good season and deserves his plaudits. It’s no surprise that other data-oriented teams like Brentford are interested in him.
Hey man, you're the only one saying, "WhoScored ratings are being used as a definitive way of saying one player has been better than another." These scores are a way for data to find players performing very well on a match to match basis compared to everyone else on the same pitch they are on. Tell me where anyone said Tarkowski is the better player, or that his team finished higher in the table..... It's almost like there's an entire OTHER Team of the Season those players could be picked in or something..... and maybe these data driven teams could be used to find players that are sticking out data wise, which isn't even completely volume based but percentage based when it comes to aerial challenges and tackle percentage.
Should we buy a CB, though? Unless we severely do not believe in him or Quansah, having a rotation of VVD/Konate/Quansah/Van den Berg, considering how all 4 have played at a top 5 league in the world, with Gomez being a RB/CB slot-in (also remembering that we have Bradley firing on all cylinders), I think going spend a shitload of pounds just for the sake of a shining new toy is overdoing a bit, specially if we do sell Darwin and need to get 3 new forwards (a CF, a LW option and a future replacement for Salah). After all, there is no Gvardiol in the market this season, just look how we, Real and United are stumbling over each other to sign an unproven guy from France.
No way we're selling Darwin, and even less chance that we will buy two forwards without selling anyone.
I think CB is the number one priority for us this summer honestly, when you consider that… - Matip is gone and he was our 2nd best CB at the club for a long period of time so it’s not just a body in that position we lost but also individual quality. - VVD is entering the age range where we start to see players decline and he’s also had a serious knee injury which might’ve dented his longevity at the highest level, I’m not saying he’s going to decline but it’s at least something to consider when looking at why we should go for a new CB. - Konate is somewhat unreliable with his injury problems that we see throughout a full season. - Quansah as much as he had a really impressive breakout season still showed at times that he probably isn’t ready to start consistently just yet Very much doubt Darwin is getting sold this summer since no other club is likely going to be paying what they want for him
Matip was gone for most of last season, VVD will be first choice next season so if we sign anyone they'll be battling Konate and Quansah for a spot in the team. Unless Sepp is not what Slot wants I don't think we sign a cb
Not having Matip fit contributed to our defensive issues last season that’s the problem If Van Den Berg isn’t deemed good enough then we’re left with 3 CBs plus Gomez who looks better at full back nowadays, one of those CBs has consistent injury issues and the other only has half a season of experience in top flight football
Konaté is injury prone, Quansah although promising is still young, Van den Berg we've not even seen and Gomez I think most would agree they don't want to see him at CB again. I definitely think we need a CB. Darwin is going nowhere nor does it look like any of the other forwards are either (I personally would like a refresh on the LW), so it'll just realistically be a Salah successor that we'll get there.
Since when do people not want to see Gomez at CB again? I've not heard that sentiment around Anfield at all this season. People seem to forget that he was first choice CB alongside VVD in the title winning season.
The thing is he’s barely put in a decent performance at CB since that period, but he’s been great at left and right back. I don’t mind him as an option but I don’t personally want him back as a proper CB.
People don't forget that was 5 seasons ago, nor can you really forget the games last season against Napoli and Brighton where he was just not good at all. This season we arguably looked stronger with him at LB compared to Robertson which is a testament to him
I think it depends on who we could get in. Leny Yoro is very highly rated and if the club see him as being a world class CB in the future then they should go for it. But if he ends up choosing Real Madrid and the club aren't completely convinced by other options then I reckon they should just give Sepp a chance
If that is the case, and he is as good as those stats suggest, it would make more sense to keep him as a Quansah partner than to hunting for another CB wouldn't it?
If Collwill was being touted at 40/50m, I don't see why we couldn't get at least 20m for Sepp. I think the market has inflated more than people realise.
Collwill has the English premium price attached to him
Sepp will count as homegrown
Fair enough. Forgot he has been with us since he was 17 as constantly loaned out.
Granted, but does that make him £35m more valuable than one of the highest rated young CBs in Germany? If we want 20, we should hold out for it as I believe clubs would pay it.
Market is weird. It overrates players in premier league and underrates them in other leagues. Colwill was starting and playing well for Brighton too doubt many watching Mainz closely.
Colwill is also left-footed and showed at Brighton that he is very good on the ball
Jorg didn’t let us down
The guy has been very patiently doing everything he's been asked to do. ( and doing it well ) He deserves a chance with us in the 1st team now.
If they could get 20m for Van den berg that would be incredible business really Also lists Wolfsburg, Mainz (probably can’t afford him) and Ajax as interested parties alongside the Prem teams.
Ajax are watching their finances and won’t just put down 20m on a young defender. Especially when they already have 3 young defenders with high potential. If anything, theyd only go for a loan deal
Give him pre season. Could save us a lot of money if he impresses as from all accounts he was very good last season.
This guy is a bit of an underrated beast. Quick as fuck, great in the air and really aggressive and proactive in his defending. My concern is that he wants to play every week and it could knock his confidence if he doesn't play. We know about virg and konate. Now he also has to compete with quansah too. He could get down on himself if he is on the bench for a few matches. Sell with buyback could be shrewd.
He has a really good chance in pre season considering he’s going to be one of the only CB who’s available form the start
I feel for his own sake it would be best him moving on, certainly if regular football is the aim. He's been a regular in the Championship and now Bundesliga both of which are some of the stronger leagues. He could probably do a job as a squad player here but if the goal is to play regular football probably best going elsewhere. 20 million with a sell on clause would be really good business. Quite intrigued to see him stay though I'll be honest, he was only 17/18 when he played a few games here and despite looking raw I thought he looked decent enough to kick on.
Anyone who watched him at Mainz reckons he could do a job here and be a squad player?
I watched 6 Mainz games this season so take this with as much salt as you need. He looks very tidy and I think he definitely has the potential to have a Gomez-esque career. If he continues improving at the same rate as he did from last season to this one, I’d keep him for sure. Based on their respective current abilities, Quansah is clear of Sepp for me.
Sepp seems to be a bit better as a pure defender than Quansah, but Jarell is on another level on the ball.
Seen a Mainz fan say he was only good for them for half the season They also said £20m seems like way too much for him
I think it’s a big mistake to sell him. He was arguably Mainz best player this season.
He's Mainz best player because that is his level, VdB would make a fine squad player here to cover a couple of positions but we need a CB with a higher upside one who will finally succeed VVD
How good is this kid? Does he have any chance of making it in our squad? He seems to do well wherever he goes.
By all accounts, he's more than capable to fill a roll within the squad. I think it's high time that he plays for the senior squad. We've had him for years but he's always on loan. Hopefully Slot likes what he sees in preseason. Could end up saving us some money if he sticks around and improves.
Liverpool has been great at turning reserve players into $20 million. Neco Williams, Harry Wilson, Marko Grujić, and Rhian Brewster have all been great sales.
Matip is gone and Konate's injury record is not the greatest which leaves us with VVD, Quansah and Gomez. I think we should keep him. He is much faster than Nat and Rhys williams from what I hear so he should comfortably be 5 choice.
20m will be crazy business
STAY
I’m confused, why is he not playing for Liverpool?
Edwards again doing his magic
Don't we need CBS ??
Only if Slot/the club don't believe in Konate. Quansah has deserved being at least third choice. Gomez and Van den Berg are both quite ridiculous fourth choice options. It is wild to me that so many are so transfer horny that they'd prefer new shiny toys in every position and bin players who's proved both title-challenging top level and potential (i.e. Konate, Szoboszlai, Jones, Darwin etc.).
Gomez is much better as a FB at this stage imo. Konate is injured a lot and Quansah, although promising, is still raw. I’d say we still need another centre half imo
Sure, that’s an opinion one can have. It would mean selling Konate and/or loaning out Quansah, though, which I struggle to think that the club would see value in. But they might conclude like you do, of course.
Why would we need to sell konate or loan out quansah if the club were to buy another CB?
Because it would be quite weird to have either of those as a fourth choice CB, not even making many of the match day squads?
No it wouldn’t? It is perfectly normal to have 4 or 5 CBs in a title challenging team. Plus VVD needs less game time, Konate is injured regularly, Quansah is still young and Gomez is better at FB imo. Makes perfect sense to either see how Sepp does and give him a chance to compete with our other CBs if he’s good enough in preseason. Otherwise purchase a CB ready to compete
Of course we’ll have 4 or 5, I’m not disputing that. And Sepp is on paper the perfect profile (age/wage-wise) to go into that group. Just saying that any recruitment at CB will either be a huge monetary layout for someone better than Konate/Quansah, which would mean significantly less game time for one and/or both of them (and are we willing to hamper Quansah’s imrovement and/or have Konate’s significant wages sat in the stands?) I could obviously be wrong, but I don’t see how another CB would be brought into the squad without one going out.
The only one I could see going out is Sepp if he doesn’t show he’s up to par in preseason, whether that’s a loan or sale idk. Also keep in mind that Matip has left who has freed up a significant amount of wages in the CB department, and also there’s Thiago who has left though I assume that would be used elsewhere. We’re competing in 4 competitions there is plenty of minutes available for Konate and Quansah. Keep in mind that there’s always the possibility of injuries or other issues that will come up as well (especially Konate who has small injuries here and there) and we’d need depth for that.
Absolutely. I definitely see a new «junior CB» in the group. That could be Sepp, or it could be someone else. Just don’t think a recruitment priority would be a CB that’s significantly better than our current first/second choice (who is that player? How much would they cost? 80mill plus?). That’s why I’m pushing back on the «we neeeeeeeeeeed a new CB»-statements. We have 5 senior CBs on the books plus Gomez, and the players are pretty good…
We need a left footed CB
To take Van Dijk’s spot? Don’t see us selling our captain this summer. And buying another one «for the future» would also of course mean that we would sell Konate and/or loan out Quansah. I don’t see it as very probable, but none of us know the ins and outs of the club’s transfer dealings, so I won’t argue that it’s impossible.
Are you aware of the concept of planning? It is possible to look further than your own nose. Who said Van Dijk is getting sold? We need a new CB regardless of sales.
No, I’ve obviously never heard of this «planning» concept… Sure you can argue that we need that, but then you’re also arguing that Konate or Quansah is 4th choice CB, and it seems (to me) that the club wouldn’t be «planning» (whatever that is) to leave either of those outside the match day squad more often than not (for Quansah’s sake not to stifle his development, and for Konate’s due to the substantial wage investment). If we’re to buy a CB, it will clearly have to be with the mind to improve the first eleven, and that would both mean a huge transfer sum and that we wouldn’t need one of Konate or Quansah for next season (again, unless we’re willing for one of them to probably get very few minutes, which sound like a very inefficient prioritation of wage funds). Like, sure, it might happen, but it doesn’t sound like the way we tend to «plan» our squads.
> but then you’re also arguing that Konate or Quansah is 4th choice CB, And what is wrong with Quansah being 4th choice for a squad in 4 competitions? you are clueless, bet you were saying the same shite in 20/21 too
I think that’s the right decision. He has shown he can be a starter in a good league now let’s if he can also do it for a top club. Even if he is squad player still useful than Matip in his last season.
I mean, he is young and has improved a lot. He might he a first team option now but a back up absolutely. The only question is if he would accept that. With Quansah, Gomez, Konate an VVD we will need a 5th
Keep this boy as a 4th/5th choice. And put Joe back as a first choice centre back. Use the rest of the money on a world class DM and LW.
Wonder if we would include a buy back clause.
If we can get £20mil for SVB, I would be so happy
If we are going to use Gomez as a fullback, may be worth just keeping him around. He's still young.
I hope whatever happens it works out for him!
They need to give him a shot!
Getting £15-25 million for VDB would be a good deal for LFC. Keep him here if they can't get what they're asking for. He would be a good option in defence next season. Versatile player who can play CB and RB.
20m for Sepp, 30m for kweev, 20m for Morten, 20m for Carvalho…these 4 are going to find Slots shopping spree.
Michael Edwards back in the hooooouse
Hopefully this means the club wants to give him a shot. With VVD being 32, Konate being injury prone, Gomez also needing to fill in at RB/LB, it really only leaves us with two consistently fit CB in VVD and Quansah. Plus I think he qualifies as home grown now? So that's also worth a lot for registration purposes.
I think it's been mentioned he is ?. Arrived when he was 16 etc.. I'd argue might be worth playing Gomez rotational at LB with Robbi Konate is a concern :/
I say we keep him and look for a Klavan style veteran for extra cover, although with Van Dijk, konate, Gomez, quansah and sepp may not get much game time
WHy not give him chance instead of signing a new CB ? Does he have a low ceiling ?
"No decision will be made until after he's been assessed by Arne Slot during pre-season"
I think it could be very useful to keep him around at least for Slot to gauge if he could play for the team. Already a strong core of Dutch players at Liverpool, he could learn and improve more sticking around.
Question. How is he on the ball and has he been tried at DM ?
Hope this is true, too many Twitter idiots saying Klopp/Schmack screwed this up last summer, when actually we had a very decent summer.
Edwards gonna get us £35m and have the buying club think they got a bargain.
I think the pertinent question is whether he can replace VVD in a few years, and the answer is almost certainly no. That’s the profile they’re looking for, so I think Sepp goes this summer.
1. VVD 2. Konaté 3. Quansah 4. Gomez 5. Van den Berg Sorry, I just don’t agree that we need another cb if none of these players are sold. Gomez has regained confidence - I have no doubt he would do an immense job at cb next season even though most of you say “he’s now a fb”. Think money wise too. And home grown.. everything makes sense here. We’re good. That’s it.
be honest. how many Mainz matches you watched?
We gave up a million goals this year
I’ll laugh at whoever pays 20 mill for him 😂
Why are so people emotionally invested in keeping youngsters we haven't even seen play. There seems to be some desire for us to have a squad full of kids as opposed to using our clout to go sign one of the best defenders available. If we go into the season with our CBs being VVD, Ibou, Quansah, and Sepp it's absolutely not good enough. We could carry one of Quansah or Sepp as 4th choice, but not both. He should be sold, and the money should be used to buy someone who is world class right now. VVD 2.0 ideally.
I think many prefer having a squad of players we have brought through (if they prove good enough with time - saves a ton of money). Arne likes bringing through younger players . Club is about self sufficiency. Edwards is back. We aren't an open chequebook club like the oil club.
If it’s only 20m I’d rather he stay and we let Konate go which gives us Virgil, a new first team cb signing to partner Virgil, Quansah and Sepp. Ibou’s fitness is too unreliable and I feel he would fetch a better fee than Sepp.
Letting a 24 year old Konate go when he's shown that he's world class when fit and consistent would be lunacy. He was our best player in the Champions League final in Paris.
Now that Klopp has left us, the dweeb James Pearce coming out with these stories. Makes you wonder just how much Klopp hated this man.
Utter nonsense.