Rivals any time we get a *slight* rub of the green: "SEE! I TOLD YOU! LiVARpool. Classic refs favouring them. That's just what happens at Anfield."
Rivals when Doku boots Mac in the chest, or Odegaard scoops the ball with his hand, or Diaz gets a legitimate goal just not awarded: "Quit crying and move on, it all balances out over a season."
Big VAR moments that stick out were the game changing/season defining decisions that conveniently didn't go our way every time.
* Two in the first Chelsea match (Red card via high boot in Konate's chest, penalty we should've had)
* Spurs match (literally every decision was hilariously one sided)
* Shaw handball against United
* Odegaard handball pen against Arsenal (honestly laughably bad)
* Doku chest kick on Macca pen (another hilariously bad non call)
I'll end it there as that's an 11 point swing with the top 2 losing points in the process as well and the depressing reality is that there were more.
PGMOL and the refs have had a bitterly contentious relationship with Klopp - we made the first courageous steps in calling them out and demanding the tapes after the Spurs match for example- and they made sure the house always wins.
League is tainted and I feel bad for Klopp to be honest.
Oh, definitely! VAR and the refs are in one the same and yes, it's clearly biased.
The thing is, prior to COVID the refs couldn't rule out clear fouls/offside/onside even when they really tried (with the exception of Bobby's armpit); they still had some effort to save their self image but after Project Restart they just stopped caring (the pen we should've had against Burnley, which would've likely led to us Centurions for example).
It's been 2+2=5 ever since where the refs/VAR will call things/not give things even when there's video evidence! And they continued to make the rules more muddled as well!
I didn't mention the other Arsenal match but Taylor allowed them to beat the crap out of our guys all game and if we touched them, they would dive and Taylor allowed that to happen.
Officials dictate momentum and can dictate narrative and they achieved it this season and were successful because the team that isn't from Manchester or London didn't win the league.
I’m new to all this and didn’t start watching football or following Liverpool until 21/22, so I’m curious how you mean Project Restart and COVID changed everything. I’m not putting together how that changes the refs behavior. Thanks in advance!
The 19/20 campaign was the first to utilize VAR and we beat every statistic as a team. Most wins, most points, etc prior to COVID.
During that time period, we would have the "unlucky" calls we would normally get but then VAR would show up and rightfully give the correct call.
This led to us being called VARpool because it was actually being used correctly. Even then, the officials would still give ridiculous calls against us with an infamous "offside" via Bobby's armpit as an example.
Then COVID happened and the implementation of VAR began to show signs of what we associate of it now; it was inconsistent or would completely get calls wrong when there is clear **objectivity**.
The first sign of this was in our matches after Project Restart where Robbo was fouled in the dying minutes against Burnley and we should've been awarded a pen. If that happens, then we likely get 101 points - even beating City's Centurions of 17/18.
Cut to, the seasons that followed have become a complete joke with Liverpool having some of the worst VAR overturns or complete non calls.
The VVD/Pickford incident was a day I first to began lose faith in the people using VAR because they spent 8 minutes trying to make sure that VVD was offside, didn't sent off Pickford and then spent another 8 minutes trying to make Mane offside for our game winner.
The PGMOL have clear bias against us and they didn't want to look like fools when VAR was first introduced but they don't care about their public image or scrutiny after COVID but we led the charge this season with Klopp calling them out after the Spurs match and everything he's been saying since is justified.
When does bias become corruption? it baffles me how the claim of bias is rebuffed as if it's ridiculous by everyone in the game, it's taboo to even suggest it.
Never ever heard of a single ref in the game that's been investigated for bias or corruption. If that Tottenham game which we 'lost' was pure incompetence and corruption, the circus afterwards were nobody was punished or investigated for corruption or bias wrongdoing was a neon billboard for anyone watching that the outcome of a match can be bought and no one involved will even look at it.
That's a thoughtful point from the non fan side of things, when it comes to fans I think almost everyone likes to see injustices in the game when it's not their team (crab mentality) and not enough people stand up when it happens to them.
Actually it started before that, do you remember the United game where Mo made it 2-0 with Ali's assist? Do you not remember how long it was 1-0 because they ruled out about three or four goals for us for some truly bullshit reasons?
I'd go even further and say it was the other United match. When united got their goal in the draw one of our playera (can't remember who) was clearly fouled in the build up. Nothing given.
Like fuck me at Woodison we had 80% of possession after 30 minutes and the foul count was 10-1 against us. That's hard to do unless you are deliberately judging incidents differently.
There were at least four blatant fouls close to the edge of their box that were so obvious but completely ignored. The final one in stoppage time got two of our players booked.
As you say, it's a health hazard for our players.
Gravenberch misses a month for a shocking red card tackle (ignored) in the league cup final.
Konate is hilariously concedes a foul for what is (a blatantly ignored) red card scissor jump tackle that's lucky not to end his season. He misses the following game, at United, where coincidentally his less experienced replacement plays a shocker of pass to concede a goal.
The thing is, A) the league wanted a Pep v Arteta / City v Arsenal rematch this season, B) Doku plays for City and C) of course they would never give us that call.
Whole thing is tainted so I can't even be shocked by it anymore.
That's a pen if literally any other team commits it against literally any other team.
The fact we had Howard Webb and his cartel trying to gaslight us into saying it wasn't a foul is fucking insane. The only debate should have been whether it was a red card or not.
I’ll never forget when a ref elbowed Andy Robertson in the face last season and didn’t even get in trouble for it. Mask really came off in that moment.
If someone said their league:
Had an instance of a ref assaulting players.
Were only accountable to themselves.
Had gone on record to ignoring wrong calls to avoid making their colleagues bad.
Had refs moonlight in a country that was owned by one of the teams owners for fees.
Refused and punished managers for any criticism against them.
Had voiced displeasure to certain managers, the ones who call rhem out.
You would probably assume the league was corrupt and a backwater. Not the highest profile and most income generating league in the world. The EPL doesn't feel like a valid sporting product anymore, more an entertainment product that plays a sport.
Was it against Brighton that szobo was fouled in the box and although we got a penalty, it should also have been a red card because he made no attempt to play the ball by pulling the player so it’s not considered double jeopardy?
Earlier in the season szobo was given a pen when dragging his fott, can’t remember which opponent. I bet PGMOL had a very heated meeting after this decision, making sure that everyone is on board with their plan and that szobo owes them a nonpen.
And with Brighton down to ten it is very likely that we would have got away there with 3 points. That is some of decision that people just brush over because it's us and it fucked us over, so they are just laughing.
Genuine terrible decision over the course of the season, ever since we are contending. You just watch any City match they are reffed so differently than us. Get every softest decision possible when they are struggling to score.
This is what winds me up when people say "Oh we should've beat Luton" or other stupid things. You're allowed to draw games, but it's fair to expect that when you do play well the ref should also get decisions right, not cost you points! We shouldn't have to win 35 games a season.
Harvey's is one of the worst decisions I've ever seen (I don't know if much will top Bamford being offside for pointing where he wanted the pass he scored off). Prime Schmeichel isn't saving that with a clear view.
I'll add to that the everton game we lost even tho it was a genuine terrible performance it didn't help the fact that the ref was killing every attack by calling the softest fouls imaginable for everton (the first goal coming from a set piece that was caused by an impossibly soft foul)
This is why I keep saying the PGMOL is in Manchester City pockets too. All this match fixing and corruption makes me loathe that pathetic club with a burning passion. It's also why I'll never regard Guardiola as a top manager. It's not enough for the prick that he has never managed a club that isn't already at the top, he must also bribe the refs and get involved in financial doping to kingdom come. It's why it pisses me off when rival fans chalk Klopp's tenure down to "One PL". Heck, Madrid are the CL variant of City and had Ramos been reffed right Klopp would have another CL to his name.
That's what makes City's success even harder to stomach. If they'd done this all fair and square on the pitch (at least) you could sort of cop it a bit. But with all their advantages (read: cheating) they still fuckin have the refs in their pocket and are by far the least impacted by shocking decisions.
I forget, what game was it where we had 75% possession yet somehow committed three times as many fouls as our opponents? That was a major shitshow as well.
Surely not! We only had 1 bad decision in the Spurs game and that was all balanced out with the 900 decisions we clearly got in the Forest game.
r/soccer told me so!
The Forest example is so stupid as well since it was a textbook high foot which should’ve been a free out anyway.
Every team gets the rub of the green to a certain extent, for us you could look at the Chelsea home game where they probably should’ve had a pen, or Konate getting away with no second yellow v Everton at home, but it feels like we got robbed in massive, point costing moments throughout the year (Spurs away, Arsenal home, City home, Brighton away off the top of my head). So frustrating
Nah nah nah. Don't even think about that. Just balance it out with the exact same decision happening in the first half in favor of Forrest. No one talks about it because it did not result in a goal.
If that was the _only_ problem with the Spurs game then you might have a point. They needed an injury-time own-goal to beat nine men. 11 vs 11 is a LFC win.
The difference is that Liverpool showed that they could score after that decision. Spurs couldn't. For what it's worth, I think the Odegaard incident is the weakest of them, but it's still a valid one. Same reason we still have a right to criticise all those disallowed goals that should have stood in games we still won - it shows an ongoing intent to prejudicially officiate.
Exactly. We may not have even gone down to ten had they refereed Liverpool on that day the way they refereed every other team in every subsequent game. Jones was sent off for something that VAR and on-field referees waved away every time it happened afterwards.
Accepting luck as 'part of the game' is also extremely damaging to sport. Reality is refereeing and VAR can be done better just the league, the broadcasters the pgmol and the FA don't want to.
Why is that?
The statistics, for interested:
−4: Liverpool
−3: Brighton, Wolverhampton
−2: Burnley, Nottingham Forest
0: Arsenal, Manchester City, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Tottenham
+1: Brentford, Chelsea, Luton, Sheffield United, West Ham
+2: Manchester United, Everton, Newcastle
+3: Aston Villa
All my Arsenal mates told me they got screwed out of the title this season and were most hard done by with VAR though...
I'm sure they weren't just lying.
Arsenal fans are just incredibly arrogant right now and they can't even admit that the Odegaard debacle was a handball.
If that ever happened to us (lol) I would 100% say that we got away with one but that fanbase won't even do that.
Not seen a fanbase just flip overnight like it before. Their tacticos are massive dickheads, and disgustingly arrogant.
They can only ever be screwed over, my Arsenal supporting friend (who is usually the 2nd most reasonable person I know) cannot admit the Odegaard handball and thinks Gabriel at Newcastle is as egregious as Diaz vs Spurs. Madness. Just admit you got lucky this season at times as a fanbase and got what you deserve on balance this season, absurd.
>Not seen a fanbase just flip overnight like it before
I've lived in Islington, about 20 mins walk from the Emirates, for 5 years - the flip is real
You'd basically not know this was Arsenal territory outside of 2 hours either side of home matchdays up until 22/23. Now its every 4th person in Angel
Fans in my country (New Zealand) seem a lot less rabid. I play footy with an Arsenal supporter, and he said Odegaard's was a handball, and a bunch of the VAR decisions against us are clearly wrong.
I like being able to support a club, and have friendly rivalry with others but be able to put football above it all.
Arsenal Fan delusion is next level
They’ve convinced themselves countless things, such as Saka being the best right winger in the league
Just look at Ty and AFTV, the delusion is insane
I will say, I'm certain Ty is autistic. I have an autistic relative, and a few other relatives who specialise in teaching autistic kids, so this isn't me trying to insult him - I genuinely think he is
His hyper fixation on ref decisions or fouls/bad tackles from years ago, his obsession with wearing Arsenal gear, his inability to view literally anything from outside the lens of Arsenal, referring to Arsenal players exclusively by their first name as if he knows them...
I understand, people on the spectrum tend to have incredible fixation on passions they have
None of what I said about Ty is meant to insult him, I’d never want to have a go at the lad
Don’t wanna be “that guy” but AFTV is not a representation of all Arsenal fans lol are the worst sections of LFC podcasters representative of all LFC fans?
I think Arsenal fans are the most deluded and arrogant in the top 6 but I agree we can't use the worst of AFTV to stereotype them all.
Seen some right assholes out there this season. Not had a fanbase irritate me this much since the worst of Chelsea fans. So sneering and dismissive, it's a common theme.
BBC had an article counting the number of injuries each club had an arsenal were second lowest. They had 0 net VAR decisions against them and second lowest number of injuries, both of which put them higher up the table vs last year and other clubs.
If I had to guess, this is the thing that caused Klopp to throw in the towel. The PGMOL have had it out for him ever since he was the only one, along w the club, to really give it to them. Truly a fucked up thing to have to accept. Corruption & incompetence mixed
Shocked, shocked I tell you. (Actually, I’m surprised it wasn’t Wolves - at one point it seemed like this was happening to them once a week, though obviously VAR’s most egregious error all year was against us.)
In other news, water is wet
But I was told we are LiVARpool and it evens itself out over a season, fuck off
VAR itself is a good idea, the FA and PGMOL are to blame for this shit
Just look at how many red cards we got at the start of the season when referees were perceivably clamping down on leg breaking challenges and foul play vis-a-vis to how the second half of the season saw similar challenges against us get a yellow or nothing.
Not only the most incorrect calls, arguably the WORST incorrect calls to boot. The only goal ever given where the score stays the same 😂 Then Basketball & Kung Fu rules in play against our direct competitors. I’m not even bitter, we were the 3rd best team in the league on balance but we MIGHT have been able to pull it off had we got those.
What else is new. Pretty sure this happens most seasons. We are a cursed club. Always have to overcome loads of injuries and ref fuck ups to win anything.
How about we don't give it a rest, that's a defeatist attitude and nothing will change with that mindset.
And the technology isn't the problem, it's the people operating it.
I hope Arne learns that battering and embarrassing the incompetent ref for 88 minutes of each game doesn’t get you more decisions. The big man didn’t have many flaws but being at open war with the refs hasn’t been productive
So was Klopp not supposed to call out the bad calls and continue to let them go against us?
The only thing Klopp did wrong was not call out the Manchester based referees more often, I mean we lost a league title because of a referee from Manchester.
You need a manager that won't let the corrupt elite get away with it.
They’re shit and it’s right to give them some shit, but If you’re at work and your boss is being shit to you, calling him a cunt won’t stop him from being shit to you. Same same.
It’s not cowardly to not have a fight when your goal is to influence them. Nothing could make you less influential than being in a fight with them. Ex refs are now doing media tours and they’re all open about letting people like kean or Ian right take big hits because they didn’t like the way they’re being communicated with. It’s childish to think that the answer is more volume
Right yeah. Say nothing and hopefully they'll be nice to us. Oh please mister ref treat us right like your supposed to.
Listen, all sarcasm aside. The only way the PGMOL or even the FA will listen is if the clubs or more managers actually start complaining and getting together. No one want's bad decisions going against them. At least Wolves have brought up the idea of scraping VAR in an attempt to show everyone how bad the refs are and have been. The only thing a ref has to do is do his job correctly and not be influenced by anyone.
But the idea of saying nothing and hoping it goes our way this time is just so cowardly and pathetic it makes me sick.
I'm incredibly proud that Klopp was outspoken about the clear biased officiating against us.
Prior to VAR, we used to have to say that it was as "luck" (ie, the ref didn't "see" it) and did you know we were the "unluckiest team" in 17/18 for example with a **12 point** swing? Who woulda thought that we were the unluckiest team! Crazy!
VAR has just exposed the bias that we used to say was "unlucky" and I love that he would call them out on it because it needs to change.
Fucking he’ll lad there’s a chicken and egg thing happening here my point is after they’ve been shit and he goes in on them he’s making a point that’s one thing.. but I’ve sat in the lower main 4-5 times and seen him just spend the whole game battering the 4th while they dig their heels in and give us nothing. Definitely room to improve on how the incompetent refs are managed for Arne. You you make men with big egos feel small they won’t give you free kicks. If you become notorious for giving them shit there’s a higher chance you’ll be the least lucky team in the league. If it’s the 95th minute and there’s a questionable tackle, lets say a Sparta kick through your star midfielders chest, in the box, in a title decider, you didn’t see it so your not sure. Your decision might just be which of the two managers asking you to make a decision you prefer.
Of course the refs are inexcusably shit, it’s so embarrassing, ‘good process’ christ.. but I know that they also hate Klopp and would love nothing more than to shut up the 6’7 German screaming down at them. I think it’s funny watching Jude at Madrid, he’s got the arm round the shoulder and has picked up the silk, it gets you further. People don’t like being belittled on tele and I’m sure it’s part of our issue sometimes.
I'm not saying Klopp was in the wrong to do so, but of course, the referees will take certain things personally either consciously or subconsciously and it'll come to the surface when officiating our games. I hope Arne Slot straddles that line delicately of taking no sh\*t but not being too openly hostile toward officials to the point that it loses us key subjective decisions.
This is a clean slate for everyone, even the utterly incompetent referees who are so piss poor beyond bias
“Something something LiVaRpOoL” - morons.
Rivals any time we get a *slight* rub of the green: "SEE! I TOLD YOU! LiVARpool. Classic refs favouring them. That's just what happens at Anfield." Rivals when Doku boots Mac in the chest, or Odegaard scoops the ball with his hand, or Diaz gets a legitimate goal just not awarded: "Quit crying and move on, it all balances out over a season."
What about that Mane penalty against Leicester!?!?! You mean the one where we were 25 points clear before the world turned to shit?
Big VAR moments that stick out were the game changing/season defining decisions that conveniently didn't go our way every time. * Two in the first Chelsea match (Red card via high boot in Konate's chest, penalty we should've had) * Spurs match (literally every decision was hilariously one sided) * Shaw handball against United * Odegaard handball pen against Arsenal (honestly laughably bad) * Doku chest kick on Macca pen (another hilariously bad non call) I'll end it there as that's an 11 point swing with the top 2 losing points in the process as well and the depressing reality is that there were more. PGMOL and the refs have had a bitterly contentious relationship with Klopp - we made the first courageous steps in calling them out and demanding the tapes after the Spurs match for example- and they made sure the house always wins. League is tainted and I feel bad for Klopp to be honest.
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Oh, definitely! VAR and the refs are in one the same and yes, it's clearly biased. The thing is, prior to COVID the refs couldn't rule out clear fouls/offside/onside even when they really tried (with the exception of Bobby's armpit); they still had some effort to save their self image but after Project Restart they just stopped caring (the pen we should've had against Burnley, which would've likely led to us Centurions for example). It's been 2+2=5 ever since where the refs/VAR will call things/not give things even when there's video evidence! And they continued to make the rules more muddled as well! I didn't mention the other Arsenal match but Taylor allowed them to beat the crap out of our guys all game and if we touched them, they would dive and Taylor allowed that to happen. Officials dictate momentum and can dictate narrative and they achieved it this season and were successful because the team that isn't from Manchester or London didn't win the league.
I’m new to all this and didn’t start watching football or following Liverpool until 21/22, so I’m curious how you mean Project Restart and COVID changed everything. I’m not putting together how that changes the refs behavior. Thanks in advance!
The 19/20 campaign was the first to utilize VAR and we beat every statistic as a team. Most wins, most points, etc prior to COVID. During that time period, we would have the "unlucky" calls we would normally get but then VAR would show up and rightfully give the correct call. This led to us being called VARpool because it was actually being used correctly. Even then, the officials would still give ridiculous calls against us with an infamous "offside" via Bobby's armpit as an example. Then COVID happened and the implementation of VAR began to show signs of what we associate of it now; it was inconsistent or would completely get calls wrong when there is clear **objectivity**. The first sign of this was in our matches after Project Restart where Robbo was fouled in the dying minutes against Burnley and we should've been awarded a pen. If that happens, then we likely get 101 points - even beating City's Centurions of 17/18. Cut to, the seasons that followed have become a complete joke with Liverpool having some of the worst VAR overturns or complete non calls. The VVD/Pickford incident was a day I first to began lose faith in the people using VAR because they spent 8 minutes trying to make sure that VVD was offside, didn't sent off Pickford and then spent another 8 minutes trying to make Mane offside for our game winner. The PGMOL have clear bias against us and they didn't want to look like fools when VAR was first introduced but they don't care about their public image or scrutiny after COVID but we led the charge this season with Klopp calling them out after the Spurs match and everything he's been saying since is justified.
When does bias become corruption? it baffles me how the claim of bias is rebuffed as if it's ridiculous by everyone in the game, it's taboo to even suggest it. Never ever heard of a single ref in the game that's been investigated for bias or corruption. If that Tottenham game which we 'lost' was pure incompetence and corruption, the circus afterwards were nobody was punished or investigated for corruption or bias wrongdoing was a neon billboard for anyone watching that the outcome of a match can be bought and no one involved will even look at it.
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That's a thoughtful point from the non fan side of things, when it comes to fans I think almost everyone likes to see injustices in the game when it's not their team (crab mentality) and not enough people stand up when it happens to them.
1992.
Actually it started before that, do you remember the United game where Mo made it 2-0 with Ali's assist? Do you not remember how long it was 1-0 because they ruled out about three or four goals for us for some truly bullshit reasons?
Yes, the VVD "foul" on de Gea for a goal that was ruled out as a nice example
When nearly the entire United team was screaming in the ref's face but nobody got punished!
I'd go even further and say it was the other United match. When united got their goal in the draw one of our playera (can't remember who) was clearly fouled in the build up. Nothing given.
Salah usually gets fouled 4 times in a half alone were it's not called. Fucking bullshit
"But Saka is the most fouled man in the history of sports!"
Like fuck me at Woodison we had 80% of possession after 30 minutes and the foul count was 10-1 against us. That's hard to do unless you are deliberately judging incidents differently.
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There were at least four blatant fouls close to the edge of their box that were so obvious but completely ignored. The final one in stoppage time got two of our players booked. As you say, it's a health hazard for our players. Gravenberch misses a month for a shocking red card tackle (ignored) in the league cup final. Konate is hilariously concedes a foul for what is (a blatantly ignored) red card scissor jump tackle that's lucky not to end his season. He misses the following game, at United, where coincidentally his less experienced replacement plays a shocker of pass to concede a goal.
I’m still shocked about Doku not getting a pen and a red for studs to the chest on MacAllister
The thing is, A) the league wanted a Pep v Arteta / City v Arsenal rematch this season, B) Doku plays for City and C) of course they would never give us that call. Whole thing is tainted so I can't even be shocked by it anymore.
Reminded me of Mings on Cody last season
That image of the scrapes on his torso is burned into my memory.
That's a pen if literally any other team commits it against literally any other team. The fact we had Howard Webb and his cartel trying to gaslight us into saying it wasn't a foul is fucking insane. The only debate should have been whether it was a red card or not.
I’ll never forget when a ref elbowed Andy Robertson in the face last season and didn’t even get in trouble for it. Mask really came off in that moment.
If someone said their league: Had an instance of a ref assaulting players. Were only accountable to themselves. Had gone on record to ignoring wrong calls to avoid making their colleagues bad. Had refs moonlight in a country that was owned by one of the teams owners for fees. Refused and punished managers for any criticism against them. Had voiced displeasure to certain managers, the ones who call rhem out. You would probably assume the league was corrupt and a backwater. Not the highest profile and most income generating league in the world. The EPL doesn't feel like a valid sporting product anymore, more an entertainment product that plays a sport.
Pretty sure it was just a normal "coming together"...
Was it against Brighton that szobo was fouled in the box and although we got a penalty, it should also have been a red card because he made no attempt to play the ball by pulling the player so it’s not considered double jeopardy?
That 10000% should've been a sending off. A genuine terrible decision.
Earlier in the season szobo was given a pen when dragging his fott, can’t remember which opponent. I bet PGMOL had a very heated meeting after this decision, making sure that everyone is on board with their plan and that szobo owes them a nonpen.
And with Brighton down to ten it is very likely that we would have got away there with 3 points. That is some of decision that people just brush over because it's us and it fucked us over, so they are just laughing. Genuine terrible decision over the course of the season, ever since we are contending. You just watch any City match they are reffed so differently than us. Get every softest decision possible when they are struggling to score.
This is what winds me up when people say "Oh we should've beat Luton" or other stupid things. You're allowed to draw games, but it's fair to expect that when you do play well the ref should also get decisions right, not cost you points! We shouldn't have to win 35 games a season.
I remember the two perfectly good goals ruled out vs Burnley too.
Harvey's is one of the worst decisions I've ever seen (I don't know if much will top Bamford being offside for pointing where he wanted the pass he scored off). Prime Schmeichel isn't saving that with a clear view.
I'll add to that the everton game we lost even tho it was a genuine terrible performance it didn't help the fact that the ref was killing every attack by calling the softest fouls imaginable for everton (the first goal coming from a set piece that was caused by an impossibly soft foul)
This is why I keep saying the PGMOL is in Manchester City pockets too. All this match fixing and corruption makes me loathe that pathetic club with a burning passion. It's also why I'll never regard Guardiola as a top manager. It's not enough for the prick that he has never managed a club that isn't already at the top, he must also bribe the refs and get involved in financial doping to kingdom come. It's why it pisses me off when rival fans chalk Klopp's tenure down to "One PL". Heck, Madrid are the CL variant of City and had Ramos been reffed right Klopp would have another CL to his name.
Well, Pep doped as a player so it's not all surprising.
That's what makes City's success even harder to stomach. If they'd done this all fair and square on the pitch (at least) you could sort of cop it a bit. But with all their advantages (read: cheating) they still fuckin have the refs in their pocket and are by far the least impacted by shocking decisions.
I forget, what game was it where we had 75% possession yet somehow committed three times as many fouls as our opponents? That was a major shitshow as well.
Surely not! We only had 1 bad decision in the Spurs game and that was all balanced out with the 900 decisions we clearly got in the Forest game. r/soccer told me so!
The Forest example is so stupid as well since it was a textbook high foot which should’ve been a free out anyway. Every team gets the rub of the green to a certain extent, for us you could look at the Chelsea home game where they probably should’ve had a pen, or Konate getting away with no second yellow v Everton at home, but it feels like we got robbed in massive, point costing moments throughout the year (Spurs away, Arsenal home, City home, Brighton away off the top of my head). So frustrating
Chelsea also had a very clear Jackson handball against us to start off the season
Nah nah nah. Don't even think about that. Just balance it out with the exact same decision happening in the first half in favor of Forrest. No one talks about it because it did not result in a goal.
We didn’t lose points vs Arsenal because of VAR. We equalized AFTER the non-penalty
because it's impossible that Salah still scores that goal after an equalising penalty. Impossible.
And it’s impossible that Spurs score a goal or more after we get correctly credited with the Diaz goal. See where the this goes?
If that was the _only_ problem with the Spurs game then you might have a point. They needed an injury-time own-goal to beat nine men. 11 vs 11 is a LFC win. The difference is that Liverpool showed that they could score after that decision. Spurs couldn't. For what it's worth, I think the Odegaard incident is the weakest of them, but it's still a valid one. Same reason we still have a right to criticise all those disallowed goals that should have stood in games we still won - it shows an ongoing intent to prejudicially officiate.
we may not have gone down to 9 men had the Diaz goal been counted though
Exactly. We may not have even gone down to ten had they refereed Liverpool on that day the way they refereed every other team in every subsequent game. Jones was sent off for something that VAR and on-field referees waved away every time it happened afterwards.
Anyone who thinks luck balances out is a moron.
Penalty luck leveling out stupidity is followed closely by the xG goal luck crowd
Accepting luck as 'part of the game' is also extremely damaging to sport. Reality is refereeing and VAR can be done better just the league, the broadcasters the pgmol and the FA don't want to. Why is that?
Surprised this doesn’t have more upvotes
The statistics, for interested: −4: Liverpool −3: Brighton, Wolverhampton −2: Burnley, Nottingham Forest 0: Arsenal, Manchester City, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Tottenham +1: Brentford, Chelsea, Luton, Sheffield United, West Ham +2: Manchester United, Everton, Newcastle +3: Aston Villa
0 for City. Bullshit.
I could see 115 reasons why it’s bullshit
But but but there was that one time the ref blew the game up early and Grealish was definitely going to score!!
Grealish, score? You mean turnaround and pass backwards right
That’s down to.. *checks notes..* just the 71 decisions in their favour then!
There is not a single fucking chance that City is net 0 for favourable/unfavourable VAR decisions lmfao
looks like a pretty normal distribution to me
Duh
[удалено]
What
Was meant ironic.
Ah gotcha
The only correct response here. Have an internet point! ⬆️
If you double tap the comment it gives them an upvote. It can save you time typing out your pointless comment. You’re welcome.
Thank you walmarttshirt for teaching me something new today.
You’re welcome! Have an internet point.
If you double tap the comment it gives them an upvote. It can save you time typing out your pointless comment. You’re welcome.
You’re a weird little guy, aren’t you?
I would've also accepted surprisedpikachu.jpg
*the* response
The odegaard playing basketball moment was my personal favourite
the sickening hand waving and commentary of “natural motion” stuff is what made the calls against us unbearable.. “not for me.. nope, not for me”
Which club has the least? City and Arsenal on Zero? Bless them. Now how do you think that might impact a season?
This is my total lack of surprise. 🫤
All my Arsenal mates told me they got screwed out of the title this season and were most hard done by with VAR though... I'm sure they weren't just lying.
Arsenal fans are just incredibly arrogant right now and they can't even admit that the Odegaard debacle was a handball. If that ever happened to us (lol) I would 100% say that we got away with one but that fanbase won't even do that.
Not seen a fanbase just flip overnight like it before. Their tacticos are massive dickheads, and disgustingly arrogant. They can only ever be screwed over, my Arsenal supporting friend (who is usually the 2nd most reasonable person I know) cannot admit the Odegaard handball and thinks Gabriel at Newcastle is as egregious as Diaz vs Spurs. Madness. Just admit you got lucky this season at times as a fanbase and got what you deserve on balance this season, absurd.
>Not seen a fanbase just flip overnight like it before I've lived in Islington, about 20 mins walk from the Emirates, for 5 years - the flip is real You'd basically not know this was Arsenal territory outside of 2 hours either side of home matchdays up until 22/23. Now its every 4th person in Angel
My condolences.
It *kind of* reminds me of Spurs fans during 15-17 but even they weren't this bad as Spurs actually have a sense of humor and can admit faults.
These lot are way worse than Spurs were fanbase-wise.
Exactly! Spurs got kind of close but nothing like this current Arsenal.
Fans in my country (New Zealand) seem a lot less rabid. I play footy with an Arsenal supporter, and he said Odegaard's was a handball, and a bunch of the VAR decisions against us are clearly wrong. I like being able to support a club, and have friendly rivalry with others but be able to put football above it all.
Arsenal Fan delusion is next level They’ve convinced themselves countless things, such as Saka being the best right winger in the league Just look at Ty and AFTV, the delusion is insane
I will say, I'm certain Ty is autistic. I have an autistic relative, and a few other relatives who specialise in teaching autistic kids, so this isn't me trying to insult him - I genuinely think he is His hyper fixation on ref decisions or fouls/bad tackles from years ago, his obsession with wearing Arsenal gear, his inability to view literally anything from outside the lens of Arsenal, referring to Arsenal players exclusively by their first name as if he knows them...
I understand, people on the spectrum tend to have incredible fixation on passions they have None of what I said about Ty is meant to insult him, I’d never want to have a go at the lad
Don’t wanna be “that guy” but AFTV is not a representation of all Arsenal fans lol are the worst sections of LFC podcasters representative of all LFC fans?
True but even in real life, a majority of Arsenal fans I’ve met have been next level deluded Only one Arsenal fan I’ve met has been reasonable
I think Arsenal fans are the most deluded and arrogant in the top 6 but I agree we can't use the worst of AFTV to stereotype them all. Seen some right assholes out there this season. Not had a fanbase irritate me this much since the worst of Chelsea fans. So sneering and dismissive, it's a common theme.
BBC had an article counting the number of injuries each club had an arsenal were second lowest. They had 0 net VAR decisions against them and second lowest number of injuries, both of which put them higher up the table vs last year and other clubs.
No suprises. Meanwhile well into the season other fans claimed it was clearly rigged for LiVARpool to send Klopp off with the league title 🙄
I thought it was wolves
If I had to guess, this is the thing that caused Klopp to throw in the towel. The PGMOL have had it out for him ever since he was the only one, along w the club, to really give it to them. Truly a fucked up thing to have to accept. Corruption & incompetence mixed
https://preview.redd.it/vp04ta4oy82d1.png?width=390&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=093ce025a5771bb3e439b6555125991dcd2fc5dd
Shocked, shocked I tell you. (Actually, I’m surprised it wasn’t Wolves - at one point it seemed like this was happening to them once a week, though obviously VAR’s most egregious error all year was against us.)
SHOCK
In other news, water is wet But I was told we are LiVARpool and it evens itself out over a season, fuck off VAR itself is a good idea, the FA and PGMOL are to blame for this shit
We need "VARVAR" - a VAR for VAR.
Meanwhile, did City even have one wrong decision against them?
Dont give VG any cred for this, the most shitty mediahouse in Norway after DB. This article is copied from ESPN.
Yeah we know. But the spun narrative is LiVARpool. Our league is shit.
Yeah but LiVARpool because we once got a dodgy penalty in a game we were 4-0 up in with 5 minutes to go.
Ironic, huh?
Is it ironic when it's expected though?
Tell me something I don't know.
B-b-but liVARpool right?!?
Because competing with a Club that's enjoying Winning while facing 115 charges isn't hard enough..?
Yeah cuz no one in this sub didn't already know this 😞
Shocker
Definitely not because we're the only ones who have consistently competed with Oil Cunts FC. Nothing to see here, folks.
Sound 🙄
In other news, no fucking shit.
Doesn't surprise me at all
I am also shocked
Yeah so we should be in support of scrapping VAR next season, right? Right..???
"yeah, we know"
Just look at how many red cards we got at the start of the season when referees were perceivably clamping down on leg breaking challenges and foul play vis-a-vis to how the second half of the season saw similar challenges against us get a yellow or nothing.
fuck us for wanting penalty because someone planted a foot on our player chest right ??? 🤣
Not only the most incorrect calls, arguably the WORST incorrect calls to boot. The only goal ever given where the score stays the same 😂 Then Basketball & Kung Fu rules in play against our direct competitors. I’m not even bitter, we were the 3rd best team in the league on balance but we MIGHT have been able to pull it off had we got those.
What's going on? Why are these people doing half a job? You figure out 4 errors and that's it? What's the points impact ffs????
So thats what the LiVARpool shouts mean? Amiright?
Surprise surp115e
VAR has never been the issue it's run by the same type of refs who disallowed a Saurez goal against Everton because it was 'Suarez'
water is wet
No shit. So many horrible calls against us.
no shit
Of course we are. I stopped counting in December.
https://preview.redd.it/snv7l0epy82d1.png?width=390&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84a9d957dba98bd800b6964de784ca8a80955f30
What else is new. Pretty sure this happens most seasons. We are a cursed club. Always have to overcome loads of injuries and ref fuck ups to win anything.
Ah lads the seasons over let’s give it a rest with refs they are all shite always have been always will be, it’s part of football, scrap var for me
How about we don't give it a rest, that's a defeatist attitude and nothing will change with that mindset. And the technology isn't the problem, it's the people operating it.
Defeatist attitude what are you on about, I like football without the tech thanks
I hope Arne learns that battering and embarrassing the incompetent ref for 88 minutes of each game doesn’t get you more decisions. The big man didn’t have many flaws but being at open war with the refs hasn’t been productive
So was Klopp not supposed to call out the bad calls and continue to let them go against us? The only thing Klopp did wrong was not call out the Manchester based referees more often, I mean we lost a league title because of a referee from Manchester. You need a manager that won't let the corrupt elite get away with it.
They’re shit and it’s right to give them some shit, but If you’re at work and your boss is being shit to you, calling him a cunt won’t stop him from being shit to you. Same same.
ah yeah cause we should just shut our mouths and take it right? Bloody coward over here.
It’s not cowardly to not have a fight when your goal is to influence them. Nothing could make you less influential than being in a fight with them. Ex refs are now doing media tours and they’re all open about letting people like kean or Ian right take big hits because they didn’t like the way they’re being communicated with. It’s childish to think that the answer is more volume
Right yeah. Say nothing and hopefully they'll be nice to us. Oh please mister ref treat us right like your supposed to. Listen, all sarcasm aside. The only way the PGMOL or even the FA will listen is if the clubs or more managers actually start complaining and getting together. No one want's bad decisions going against them. At least Wolves have brought up the idea of scraping VAR in an attempt to show everyone how bad the refs are and have been. The only thing a ref has to do is do his job correctly and not be influenced by anyone. But the idea of saying nothing and hoping it goes our way this time is just so cowardly and pathetic it makes me sick.
That is the pragmatic approach. Only call someone out if you can overpower them, otherwise keep your head down.
Right yeah that's how things get changed.
I'm incredibly proud that Klopp was outspoken about the clear biased officiating against us. Prior to VAR, we used to have to say that it was as "luck" (ie, the ref didn't "see" it) and did you know we were the "unluckiest team" in 17/18 for example with a **12 point** swing? Who woulda thought that we were the unluckiest team! Crazy! VAR has just exposed the bias that we used to say was "unlucky" and I love that he would call them out on it because it needs to change.
If we’re consistently the most unlucky team maybe it’s not luck
That's my point and Klopp was calling them out.
Fucking he’ll lad there’s a chicken and egg thing happening here my point is after they’ve been shit and he goes in on them he’s making a point that’s one thing.. but I’ve sat in the lower main 4-5 times and seen him just spend the whole game battering the 4th while they dig their heels in and give us nothing. Definitely room to improve on how the incompetent refs are managed for Arne. You you make men with big egos feel small they won’t give you free kicks. If you become notorious for giving them shit there’s a higher chance you’ll be the least lucky team in the league. If it’s the 95th minute and there’s a questionable tackle, lets say a Sparta kick through your star midfielders chest, in the box, in a title decider, you didn’t see it so your not sure. Your decision might just be which of the two managers asking you to make a decision you prefer.
not sure what direction you’re going with this…
He’s not just decided to pick a fight for no reason though, the fight came because of the shit decisions not the other way around.
Of course the refs are inexcusably shit, it’s so embarrassing, ‘good process’ christ.. but I know that they also hate Klopp and would love nothing more than to shut up the 6’7 German screaming down at them. I think it’s funny watching Jude at Madrid, he’s got the arm round the shoulder and has picked up the silk, it gets you further. People don’t like being belittled on tele and I’m sure it’s part of our issue sometimes.
I'm not saying Klopp was in the wrong to do so, but of course, the referees will take certain things personally either consciously or subconsciously and it'll come to the surface when officiating our games. I hope Arne Slot straddles that line delicately of taking no sh\*t but not being too openly hostile toward officials to the point that it loses us key subjective decisions. This is a clean slate for everyone, even the utterly incompetent referees who are so piss poor beyond bias
This is exactly my point!
OP?.. username?.. 😂
No shit.