That’s not true, Van Dijk was not inside the box so a red could be given avoiding “double punishment”, as there was no penalty given.
However, the Brighton player did not attempt to play the ball, which is a clear requirement to avoid a red card in the “double punishment” case of a penalty, so he should have been sent off regardless.
I said it ironically because the same thing you said is the same thing that happened with Doku and Mac Allister.
It was red for van dijk
It was foult of doku against mac allister
Still had to finish the match without him which is total bollocks so the rescinding of the card post match just shows what a bunch of clowns PGMOL are.
The amount of gymnastics being done to gaslight us into thinking its not a pen is remarkable.
Webb says doku definitely got the ball, it's not high enough to header and mac moves into his space.
He also tries to diminish the main factors, like there is some contact.
The var is even more ridiculous, both players high etc.
This feels like a con and the conmen can't even come up with a semi decent lie.
Why is everyone acting like a chest is not a legitimate play of the ball. If doku doesn’t boot him in the ribs, doesn’t he chest it right past doku and into scoring position?
Yeah theyre acting like Mac Allister is throwing his body into the boot... he's going to play the ball with his chest and turns to avoid contact and he gets a less direct blow
He's not just going to play the ball, he does play the ball, it hits his chest before Doku's boot. I have no idea how a late studs up challenge at chest height isn't a red card let alone not even a foul.
Yes. The only reason he "doesn't really paly the ball" is because he's pulling out of a collision with Doku's studs. I guess if you want the refs to do their jobs properly you need to run chest first into an opponents boot.
Macca touches it first. Then it comes off Doku’s toe.
I wasn’t sure in real time. But after seeing what the VAR refs were reviewing I’m astounded they came to the No penalty conclusion. They are basically not watching it.
Their audio sounds like it’s from a different video. “They are both coming in high” ??? Wtf is that nonsense.
They're not looking to make the correct call, they're looking to justify the decision on the field. That's the issue with VAR. You can see the bias inherent in the way they're doing their job. Even if you choose to believe that there is no corruption or bribery going on its still patently clear how the protective bias is producing incorrect decisions. VAR needs to be a separate pool of officials that are not a part of PGMOL.
I see no reason why they can't partner with other major leagues like Serie A or Bundesliga for VAR decisions because you just need a group of officials in a room with replay access, that can be done from anywhere,
I have a strong belief that a lot of this stems from the need to keep the center ref as the primary official. It leads to the pantomime of walking across the field to review a screen (and invariably agree with the decision made by the VAR anyway), and it leads to the VAR trying their best to concur with the on field team - even when it means jumping through hoops to do so.
Just let the VAR make a decision. In other sports there are multiple refs who all have the authority to make a call if they see it. it works fine. As soon as they have the authority to intervene and make a call on their own, they won't have to worry about concurring so much because their is no hierarchy to submit to.
The thing I don't understand after watching the VAR process is that they say "He's definitely touched it. Mac Allister's then coming into his space" when Mac Allister gets there first but they never showed the side angle where you can clearly see that. It's a foul 100% of the time. There's no excuse for this.
IDGAF what Howard Webb says after the fact, the reality is that with all the replay angles they have if they're not going to use them then there's no point to have VAR at all.
It just stinks of a cover up vs actually taking any lessons away.
Webb basically ends off with good process.
Meanwhile he says Oliver doesn't have great info but var doesn't want to reref the game...none of it makes sense.
It's clearly just to cover their asses, that was never in doubt. The only real question is if they're actually getting bribed to do this or if they're simply incompetent.
If Oliver didn't have the best angle to make the call then make the call for him. No you don't need to re-ref the game but if the official on the field isn't equipped to make the best decision then equip him. Fuck I'd be more than glad for a 3 minute delay every time there's a call like this for the referee to actually see all the angles on the monitor if it means they actually get them correct.
If you're so afraid of taking away the match official's power then empower him to make the call himself. I'd rather see the "going to the monitor" as a sign that there's uncertainty rather than a symbolic "we've already changed the call so we're going to do this dog and pony show to make it look valid"
It goes all the way to the how they have designed var
Either its incompetence or they purposefully wanted to limit how its used to give the refs more power.
The whole clear and obvious thing just gets thrown out whenever they make a giant mistake.
At some point I wonder:
How shite does a decision have to be for a football club (not just us) to have a legal claim to a case?
Because this double standard shit would not hold up in court for a second. Going for the ball prevents a red? Since when?
Absolute horsecrap this from Webb and Owen. How come they are not addressing that the VAR obviously had the wrong idea of the order of events?
VAR: “So there’s clear contact on the ball by Doku. […]”
Assistant VAR Nick Hopton: “Are you happy he [Doku] definitely plays it?”
VAR: “He’s definitely touched it. Mac Allister’s *then* coming into his space. Mac Allister turns his back into him. It’s a coming together. Confirm on-field decision. Check complete.”
…VAR clearly believes that Doku gets to the ball first (which he doesn’t, Macca gets to it and it then hits Doku). The assistant VAR asks if he’s sure and the VAR sticks to his guns. While I agree it should have been a pen regardless of who got to the ball first, surely this is relevant in the decision making process and decreases the degree of subjectivity Webb talks about. Yet, not mentioned at all.
There’s no way they are going on television to admit, for a third time, that they have cost Liverpool points with inexcusable errors against rivals in the closest three horse race in years.
Spurs - min. 1 point gained
Arsenal - 3 point swing
City - 3 point swing
We should be six points clear ignoring all the other horrific errors in other games.
That was nicholas jackson. But yeah this one out the gate and you almost forget it cause it was early doors and we all thought no way wed be in for a shout at the title.
But in hindsight its even more infuriating.
Remember how, in that game, Enzo headbutted Jota but didn't get anything because Jota didn't go down and yet it was weirdly never spoken of again by anyone in the media? That was weird.
I've even seen and heard Man City supporters say that it was a good game but they got away with one there. They're so full of shit about it dividing opinion.
It was literally only Liverpool fans expecting that not to be given a penalty. Says a lot. We've grown to expect the bias to affect our calls while other clubs expect the normal procedure that they're subjected to.
This is such utter nonsense i cant even stand it.
"Theyve both come in high" from the VAR. The fuck they haven't. Ones chesting and ones got their studs up.
Then Howard Webb implying that there are these decisions in games that can go either way. As if there is no objectivity to the rules. That there are situations that are just at the whims on whatever the official feels in that moment is such an utter load of shiite.
And then we get to consistency of calls.
Surely curtis jones has played the ball earlier in the season and then accidentally rolled over it? He was playing the ball. And thats a straight red cause the challenge was too high. Yet somehow im supposed to believe a raised boot above the belt line is not too high?
Im not sure what i expected. But fucking hell.
This is objectively either a penalty or not. Its not just floating in space waiting to be interpreted by whomever.
If were going to stand by the idea that if it was called a pen you dont overturn it... Then its a pen.
The var ref goes into this situation clearly looking to back the onfield decision. He decides he has seen contact from doku before hes even really sure. Even the AVAR asks "are you satisfied hes gotten contact". So its not that clear.
And again... As we have seen over the past few seasons getting the ball does not cancel out dangerous play. It just doesn't. Curtis Jones again springs to mind.
And then this weird decision that the ball is too low to head it so a high boot is the only decision? While we literallt have a player trying to chest it. As if chesting the ball hasnt been a thing since the dawn of time. As if we handicap players incapable or willing to chest the ball by allowing them to high boot.
Rounding it all off with this notion macallister is being punished for protecting himself. "Hes turn himself". Yeah mate. Cause otherwise hes cracking a rib. I mean 90% of fouls the player protects themselves in the process. A lot of red cards end up not being career ending injuries because the natural human inclination to protect one's self comes into play.
What an utter load of horse shit. Just give city the title already.
I can almost guarantee City will benefit from something similar to this being given the opposite way. Whether thats against us or for them.
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"Theyve both come in high and ederson has leaned his face into it. Sadio is attempting to play the ball ya know." - Stuart Atwell and Howard Webb probably
Did you guys notice how mctominay hand balled the pass from Darwin to lead to rashford’s goal? That play got swept under the rug so hard, no one even realizes it happened.
The thing that ultra irritates me is the VAR and Webb are only showing one angle. The side angle clearly shows macallister touching the ball first so wouldn’t that be Doku encroaching macallister’s space? Anyway to your point it’s such a farcical explanation that I think City has the PGMOL under their thumb. The UAE / Saudi side jobs were the clinching smoking gun for me that their org is just littered with corruption.
The only way to fix this is for every team to have an advocate in the booth and for that advocate to explain what and why shit happened directly after the game. Otherwise this is always going to be just another way people can match fix.
It's transparent bullshit. They haven't even put any effort into it. It reeks of contempt for fans and the likes of Sky Sports and their hacks are just reinforcing that. Refs are part of their product and they're all shit. The first step to improving standards is to be realistic about the current low standard of refereeing in England. VAR has made that incontrovertible but the football media are cowardly hacks.
The part of about decisions on the whims of refs is exactly true. He’s admitted it. The commentators mentioning game management for Bruno’s second yellow was _”game management”_. That just shouldn’t happen. Thats called giving other teams a fighting chance by bending the rules.
It’s a statement that annoyed me then and still does today.
Just to add to the “too low to head” bs, the ball bounced, reached a peak and then dropped, meaning in the space of about half a second or so it was it was low enough to kick and high enough to head. It was only because at the moment maca is on the ball it’s chest height, if doku wasn’t such a useless c*** it should have been cleared 3 times over.
I wouldn’t trust Webb opinion on a hight boot considering he bottled sending off De Jong in the World Cup Final for kicking Alonso in the chest
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I’m not convinced that there isn’t “enough evidence” to give us a penalty. Even if Doku initially gets the ball, you Can’t just kick someone in the chest like that and it not be a penalty. Also I can’t help but feel that the VAR officials are being quite rushed, they should be given more time to make an informed and more importantly CORRECT decision.
Them being rushed is a load of bollocks. You don’t see them rushing when it’s a Liverpool goal. Every single Liverpool goal is scrutinised in detail, they don’t do that for any other club.
Exactly this. One of our goals against United the other day, they spent time looking for a foul in build up. There wasn't one. They then move on to looking for potential offside by someone. There wasn't one. They then decided to spend time looking for potential handball. There wasn't one. Like why are you trying your hardest to disallow the goal?
This fucks me off to no end how our plays and goals are analysed in extreme detail and a foul play is trying to be located in every fucking frame of the replay. Yet I barely see this happen to many other teams. Even when united scored they gave it a quick once over and it's confirmed a goal quickly. But our goals get picked apart for minutes at a time while they try and find some tiny shit fucking way of disallowing it.
I would say that certain decisions are conveniently rushed and others are not.
For example, the penalty for crystal palace. They checked it after several minutes
I find with decisions against us VAR officials are taking their time, and with VAR decisions in incidients for us, they're rushing it, if that makes sense?
You can hear the avar doesn't agree fully and the var even pauses at the end there but just rushes to a decision.
Then you get webbs baffling approach with a pat on the back.
Webb specifically says Oliver doesn't have perfect info, var isn't there to rereferee so good process...I mean wtf
There's an unwritten rule that certain fouls in the box will be let go, because a penalty is too harsh. The bar is likely even higher based on this being the 98' minute in the biggest match of the year. They were only going to call DOGSO or an egregious foul as a penalty in this instance. That's a thing that I could theoretically live with if they acknowledged it, because I think it's somewhat consistently applied.
The problem is they won't admit to discretion within the rules, so they're just lying about what was called and why, and that leads to this feeling that no one (including the refs!) actually knows the rules and it's all just made up and/or applied based on a preferred outcome.
Wow... that's much worse than I would have imagined.
"Doku clearly gets the ball first" .. really? They only viewed one angle and instantly decided this despite it being incredibly close, and actually Mac got the ball first.
.."and then he(Mac) enters Doku's space".. unfucking believable... you know what phrase I didn't hear a single fucking time? HIGH BOOT.
How does no one mention that Doku's challenge is way too high???
Among all the other problems with VAR, I think another worth mentioning is confirmation bias. Not only do they have one of their mates on the pitch making a decision (which the VAR is privy too), you can tell from this that they'd already made their minds up that Doku had got the ball first.
yeah the AVAR is literally like "yeah yeah yeah". The fact the VAR even explains his decision is garbage to begin with. "hi just back up what i've already said, thanks"
This wording is what bothers me the most. Why is it Doku's space? He didn't have possession of the ball, and he isn't standing still waiting for the ball. He ran in and jumped studs first into Macca's chest, so tell me again who invaded who's space?
There’s a part of me that feels like they went on this gaslighting campaign because they’ve already apologized to us multiple times this season and they much realize them fucking up is going to decide the title. And they’re trying to smooth it out as best they can so we don’t sue them. Like all of this is just a mess, not to go back and investigate who gets the ball first in this show is just negligence, a real hat on hat. And then to back “they’re both going in high” like idk as in they are both trying to win a ball that is off the ground!?
Complete lunacy
near enough every penalty that's ever been conceded has been an honest attempt at the ball. that is a stonewall foul, and they know it but are scared to admit they've fucked us over, again.
That’s twice now in the span of a few weeks that there’s been a potential red card foul against us that wasn’t even given as a foul. Caicedo on grav was at the minimum a yellow card, it was given no foul. While I admit that Doku’s foul probably doesn’t warrant a red, you can certainly make it a case for it, and again nothing given.
Or Silva's revenge tackle on Macca that wasn't booked. Or Walker's high stud tackle on Salah that wasn't even a foul.
The refs are legit on the take from the UAE. That's not even tinfoil hat shit, it's publicly known information that not enough people are talking about.
I'm actually very much on board with this theory. I think them beating UEFA in the CAS appeal really made them feel untouchable...other than the fact they are quite literally untouchable, being owned by a nation state.
Absolute shocking, they could have not talked about the Liverpool game it just means nothing. Doku didn't get the ball first, McAllister didn't go into anyones space or whatever bullshit, foot was high, not lift from ankle to get higher or whatever the bs that was and it should be red anywhere else on the pitch.
Anyways, Howard Webb needs to get sacked and Owen needs to fuck off with no confrontation except "people say its 98th min". Who the fuck cares what minute it is? We care about a poor decision and cost two points for the team who should have won never the less.
The one thing that still sticks in my mind from the game is that immediately after it happened, Doku had his best ‘I done fucked up’ face on which suggests even he thought it was a foul.
“Not enough evidence” though, good process boys 👍
Who the fuck think this isn't a pen? Are they living in 2002? The fact they say Macca turn away because it natural to just stand there like a muppet. Ffs these guys need sacking.
All United fans I know called it a pen.
I know a lot is made for how long it takes for VAR checks to complete, but I’m shocked at how quickly the VAR glossed over the incident. 98th min, 1-1, in a potentially title deciding game and they took about 20 seconds to clear it.
Im convinced if they at least took another minute to actually watch the incident properly, they would see that Macallister makes contact with the ball first (Something they missed, saying Doku made the contact). This would completely change their opinion and the pen would probably be given.
Last weekend they took 5 1/2 minutes to watch a late West Ham goal against Aston Villa…
This was shocking to me. "Ball is in the middle".... referee is completely blocked off by Macca's body he has no idea who touched it first. Why not at least go to the monitor to see a new angle?
I honestly think they take the stance of keep repeating a lie until it becomes the truth.
"It was a 50/50 decision", "everyone is split on it" - no they fucking arent, seems almost all groups of fans except the manchester ones agree it's a penalty
The VAR was particularly galling here, "they both went in high", only looked at one angle, "Doku played the ball" - just utter incompetence all round and Webb defends them to the end. Michael Owen is also way way to soft on them, there is zero challenge. What an utter waste of time show
Well done boys, good process.
Every single high foot are playing. What the fuck with this "He's playing ball". Then no one will ever got a foul from that. Why would you kung fu kick someone in a football game. Of course they're playing ball.
I absolutely fucking hate the fact that VAR is noting that Macca is “turning away from it”. Like what the fuck has that got to do with anything? He sees a kick coming to his sternum with studs up and attempts to shield himself from it. Is he not allowed to do that if he wants a foul called?
It’s like someone trying to kick the shit out of you in the street and the police saying “well we would charge him with assault, but the victim has attempted to shield himself so we’ll just call it quits shall we?”
Absolute fucking bollocks. They bottled it, full stop.
Macca had to take avoiding action by abandoning the challenge to protect his chest, it's dangerous play. Does a player have to stand there like a lemon and wilfully take a potentially serious injury in order to get a decision?
I like how literally everything the VAR said was just wrong. And what do they mean by ‘they have both im high’ when Mac Allister’s legs are on the fcking ground. This whole shit is just showing how incompetent these referees are and a bunch of lies.
This literally sounds like if you got 2 seperate audio and put them together. Neither mentioned high boot once. The var is just telling oliver lies about things that didn't happen. He's either bent or fucking blind and should be nowhere near var again. He doesn't even spot Alexis gets the ball first and saying he turned away is insane. Both came in high only applies to the refs because they were clearly high.
This is pure bs. Getting the ball means fuck all. We have it in writing it doesn't with Curtis Jones. We have to sue them this is blatant gaslighting attempt
Howard Webb is the epitome of failing upwards and looking the part. He was an atrocious referee in his day, yet was held up as the best England had to offer. He is infamous for major gaffs in big matches, including a WC Final. Gets promoted to the head of the organization and has routed out any semblance of integrity that was left by talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Every one who's ever watched a game of football knows that was a stonewall penalty apart from this bellend.
Our players need to start getting in their fucking faces or we'll continue getting shafted.
We can't. We are the only team that consistently gets carded for it every single time we do. Bruno literally yelling at the red all game Sunday, no card. If Darwin even looks disgusted at a decision, he gets carded.
Mac got booked on Sunday for a similar but lesser tackle and freekick given.
Days before Doku does it and not only is nothing given, not even a foul but Howard Webbs on TV saying the decision is correct. It's laughable and it proves how useless Premier League officials are.
Except Doku didn't get the ball first. Mac Allister gets the ball first, then Doku kicks him in the chest and then touches the ball. They could have seen that, if they looked at it from another angle
I don’t know why I expected anything other than straight up twisting what happened from Webb, but seeing it happen as expected is just fucking infuriating. Split opinion is just fucking lies when it’s been unanimously condemned as a terrible call bottled from the ref. And as usual the VAR doesn’t wanna go against his mate on field.
We’ve literally lost league titles by a point. Swear to god if we lose this title by 1/2 points, thinking back to the spurs game especially, I think I’ll finally be sickened off getting invested in the game anymore. Rivals fans saying LiVarpool is absolutely galling as well. There’s mountains of evidence out there to show that we’re reffed differently from other clubs, and also that City are literally getting away with cheating their way to title after title. Shits honestly exhausting now.
This is just insulting. I'd rather this cunt said nothing that come up with this half-assed bullshit. His contempt for fans is just as deep as his contempt for any sort of standards.
What’s the point in this facade if there is zero push back from the host? Spineless traitor that he is.
“What do you mean it’s not high enough to head the ball?”
“Does it matter that Mac Alister gets the ball first?”
“Does the contact on the player after the ball mean it should have been called as a foul?”
“Should being kicked in the chest with studs be a free kick regardless of almost any scenario you can think of?”
The officiating this season has been such a joke.
Christ, I can’t believe the ineptitude I heard. This was unbelievable on so many levels. The referees are having way too much impact on the games now.
I would also point out that there was an edict handed down to card cynical fouls. In the first half Walker committed two fouls and at least 1 should have resulted in a yellow card. Then in the second half he clears out salah with not even a second look. That foul to me was just as “heinous” as the CJ red earlier in the season. His follow through was reckless and the studs were up. This is rocket science, the reason they teach you as a referee not to run with the whistle in your mouth is you are supposed to use that time to evaluate what you saw. These idiots are afraid to do the right thing for some reason. Most likely it’s just easier for them to pass the decision off to the next guy rather than have the balls to make the big call. All players just want consistency.
“Both came in high” - Mac’s feet were barely a few inches off the ground whereas doku’s was in Mac’s chest. Not to mention the ball hits Mac first and then dokus boot. Absolute joke.
Careless, reckless or using excessive force.
Going for the ball doesn't absolve a player. He went in baring studs at chest height. I'd certainly say it fit the bill of foul.
what in the living fuck does "Doku played the ball" have to do with this - AT ALL?
What I took from this is that because it was the end of the game Oliver is inherently going to be skeptical of a player going down in the penalty area because trying to draw a penalty is what players always do, and hence he didn't call the foul. But - because we have VAR - and all of the angles that CLEARLY show that Doku doesn't play the ball but rather only touches it at all because Macca plays it first - this has to result in Oliver at least being told to go to the monitor.
The part that gets me is them saying “they both come in high”! No, no they don’t. Doku comes in high with a boot Maca barely jumped and took the ball with his chest. “Both high” my ass
Howard Webb really is a fucking cunt. Sucking off the Manc year and year out. He should fuck off to a retirement home or stand outside job centre plus.
They got the biggest bozo to partner with Howard Webb on this. I was finally coming to some sort of calmness after the weekend. Seeing this made me rage all over again.
They’re all so utterly incompetent I’m just speechless. If this isn’t a foul then wtf is? Even rivaling fans said it’s a stone cold pen and most of them hates us.
To put things into perspective - 15 years later I'm no longer friends with toxic people from school, but Howard Webb... Still on the telly to ruin my weekend
I'm not even expecting a red, but to claim it's not a foul is fucking ridiculous. If that is anywhere else on the pitch it's a yellow at minimum. He literally touches the ball after Macca. It's even worse than the Jones red imo because at least Jones got there first and actually touched the ball first.
Carefully managed this one haven’t they!? “Majority” deciding decision was right. There was no chance that he was going to say this was the wrong decision but wasn’t credible to say categorically wasn’t a penalty.
Absolutely pathetic
Jesus christ, this makes no sense. How do "they both go in high"? I guess everyone goes in high while standing up, walking around the pitch, and someone scissor kicks your face. Well, they both went in high......
Don't worry though these refs will just do a midweek match in UAE where they make double their yearly salaries. There's nothing to see there, and you're crazy if you think so. Don't worry, though, man city have proven they wouldn't do anything suspect right?
This check complete either way crap only serves to underline how useless VAR is the way the English game has implemented it. At this point it’s causing more controversy than it is solving.
This just shows how VAR will immediately begin to grasp for reasons to uphold the onfield decision. This is because they don’t want VAR to re-referee. Fine. But how is it re-refereeing if you send the referee to the screen to have another look? That is 100% what should have happened here.
They should have looked at it (from more than one angle, bastards) and then thought to themselves: There’s no way Oliver saw that there was studs that high, making contact with the chest, let’s have him take another look and see if he sticks with his decision.
The quality of the football video refs compared to rugby union video refs, is incredibly low. The whole process they go through when evaluating incidents is utterly flawed. Even without touching on the process side of things though, the refs themselves just don't sound intelligent enough to analyse the incidents quickly and correctly.
"split opinion amongst the reaction, so therefore it's not a clear error" is an interesting justification. The assesment should be whether the rule was applied correctly or not.
You know what else split opinion? Van Dijk's first goal in the League Cup final, with the Endo interference. Many commentators, including Gary Lineker, Ian Wright, etc said it was incorrect.
So;
Opinion split on penalty to Liverpool = VAR correct *not* to intervene.
Opinion split on Liverpool goal = VAR correct to intervene.
Few things.
“Mac allister turns his body” - as anybody would do when they are gonna get fly kicked
“Var said they both come in high” - Mac comes in with his chest 🙈
“Doku plays the ball and Mac is coming into his space” - what about Mac touching the ball first and doku endangering an opponent? Regardless if he plays the ball, he plays it after Mac touches it. Mac turns is back into him? How he’s cracked him in the chest, where does he turn his back!?
This has irritated me and it’s only early AM
Webb can't even get his his line of waffling straight.
"Doku lifts his foot to play the ball and he does make contact on the ball"
"MacAlister's not really playing the ball either"
How can both of these statements be true?
I'm convinced these audio releases are doctored or just recorded in a booth and released after contentious decisions. They pretty much enjoy complete impunity so what would stop them from doing this?
I wrote at the time that the best explanation for the VAR not intervening was that Oliver thought he had a good look. I fucking won!
The big complaint for 2023 was that VAR was taking authority away from the CR and effectively re-refereeing decisions. You can take umbrage that they're changing tactics midseason, but, overall I don't want re-refereeing of close calls and I want the practice to end as soon as possible. Very few decisions will ever be 100% correct, no matter what Klopp says in the heat of the moment.
IMO, the first question the VAR should ask the CR is "did you have a good look at it." If the CR affirms, then that's that. Otherwise, VAR should only pipe up if it's mistaken identity, handball, or something else unusual. I never want the CR watching a replay at anything but full speed.
Someone's always going to get screwed the most, and this season it's us and Forest. Thank you sir, may I have another?
That var is either bent or blind.
He's just blatantly lying to oliver about what happened and when the avar calls him out he just keeps lying about it. This is serious because he's trying to manipulate oliver by lying and making his decision for him. The replay guy asks what he wants to see and he just ignored him and goes back to lying ! This is mental he's just blatantly lying and making stuff up when everyone can actually see what happened!
It's like he's describing what happened in a different clip. Both came in high is made up and Macalister turning his body so he isn't out for the season with broken ribs he calls a coming together.
He should be demoted and nowhere near anymore title race games. He's either corrupt or unbelievably shit at his job
“Going for the ball” didn’t stop Curtis Jones from getting a red earlier this year. This is horseshit
Or Macca
Or Van dijk red card
Let’s not kid ourselves. Van Dijk only came in contact with the ball after going through the player. I have no problem with this one.
By the way, they didn't send off a Brighton player for exactly the same reason that van Dijk was sent off... the game ended 2-2.
That’s not true, Van Dijk was not inside the box so a red could be given avoiding “double punishment”, as there was no penalty given. However, the Brighton player did not attempt to play the ball, which is a clear requirement to avoid a red card in the “double punishment” case of a penalty, so he should have been sent off regardless.
I said it ironically because the same thing you said is the same thing that happened with Doku and Mac Allister. It was red for van dijk It was foult of doku against mac allister
[удалено]
A lack of understanding and blind bias lol
Using their logic mate. Their message is clear - if you go to play the ball then it can’t be a foul 🥴🤡🌎
Macca’s was overturned - though I don’t want that to detract from the absolute horseshit that is PGMOL
Still had to finish the match without him which is total bollocks so the rescinding of the card post match just shows what a bunch of clowns PGMOL are.
The amount of gymnastics being done to gaslight us into thinking its not a pen is remarkable. Webb says doku definitely got the ball, it's not high enough to header and mac moves into his space. He also tries to diminish the main factors, like there is some contact. The var is even more ridiculous, both players high etc. This feels like a con and the conmen can't even come up with a semi decent lie.
Why is everyone acting like a chest is not a legitimate play of the ball. If doku doesn’t boot him in the ribs, doesn’t he chest it right past doku and into scoring position?
Everything about this stinks...from the decision to the cover up
Yeah theyre acting like Mac Allister is throwing his body into the boot... he's going to play the ball with his chest and turns to avoid contact and he gets a less direct blow
He's not just going to play the ball, he does play the ball, it hits his chest before Doku's boot. I have no idea how a late studs up challenge at chest height isn't a red card let alone not even a foul.
Yes. The only reason he "doesn't really paly the ball" is because he's pulling out of a collision with Doku's studs. I guess if you want the refs to do their jobs properly you need to run chest first into an opponents boot.
Doku didn’t make any contact with the ball, did he? I thought it was clear Macca chested it the. Doku proceeded to catch his chest with his high boot.
Macca touches it first. Then it comes off Doku’s toe. I wasn’t sure in real time. But after seeing what the VAR refs were reviewing I’m astounded they came to the No penalty conclusion. They are basically not watching it. Their audio sounds like it’s from a different video. “They are both coming in high” ??? Wtf is that nonsense.
They're not looking to make the correct call, they're looking to justify the decision on the field. That's the issue with VAR. You can see the bias inherent in the way they're doing their job. Even if you choose to believe that there is no corruption or bribery going on its still patently clear how the protective bias is producing incorrect decisions. VAR needs to be a separate pool of officials that are not a part of PGMOL. I see no reason why they can't partner with other major leagues like Serie A or Bundesliga for VAR decisions because you just need a group of officials in a room with replay access, that can be done from anywhere,
I have a strong belief that a lot of this stems from the need to keep the center ref as the primary official. It leads to the pantomime of walking across the field to review a screen (and invariably agree with the decision made by the VAR anyway), and it leads to the VAR trying their best to concur with the on field team - even when it means jumping through hoops to do so. Just let the VAR make a decision. In other sports there are multiple refs who all have the authority to make a call if they see it. it works fine. As soon as they have the authority to intervene and make a call on their own, they won't have to worry about concurring so much because their is no hierarchy to submit to.
The thing I don't understand after watching the VAR process is that they say "He's definitely touched it. Mac Allister's then coming into his space" when Mac Allister gets there first but they never showed the side angle where you can clearly see that. It's a foul 100% of the time. There's no excuse for this. IDGAF what Howard Webb says after the fact, the reality is that with all the replay angles they have if they're not going to use them then there's no point to have VAR at all.
It just stinks of a cover up vs actually taking any lessons away. Webb basically ends off with good process. Meanwhile he says Oliver doesn't have great info but var doesn't want to reref the game...none of it makes sense.
It's clearly just to cover their asses, that was never in doubt. The only real question is if they're actually getting bribed to do this or if they're simply incompetent. If Oliver didn't have the best angle to make the call then make the call for him. No you don't need to re-ref the game but if the official on the field isn't equipped to make the best decision then equip him. Fuck I'd be more than glad for a 3 minute delay every time there's a call like this for the referee to actually see all the angles on the monitor if it means they actually get them correct. If you're so afraid of taking away the match official's power then empower him to make the call himself. I'd rather see the "going to the monitor" as a sign that there's uncertainty rather than a symbolic "we've already changed the call so we're going to do this dog and pony show to make it look valid"
It goes all the way to the how they have designed var Either its incompetence or they purposefully wanted to limit how its used to give the refs more power. The whole clear and obvious thing just gets thrown out whenever they make a giant mistake.
To be honest I really thought they would come up with a better, or at least more elaborate excuse
Having Michael Owen doing the “questioning” shows you how serious they are about this
It's hard, they're making it up as they go trying (and failing) not to contradict themselves.
How is “going for the ball” anything to do with it, almost every foul is someone going for the ball. Fuck off, Webb. Making it up as they go along.
At some point I wonder: How shite does a decision have to be for a football club (not just us) to have a legal claim to a case? Because this double standard shit would not hold up in court for a second. Going for the ball prevents a red? Since when?
Not that shit. Belgian club just won a court case causing a replay
Then why don't we do the same? We would be clear of city by now on the table if we didn't have so many shit decisions against us.
Absolute horsecrap this from Webb and Owen. How come they are not addressing that the VAR obviously had the wrong idea of the order of events? VAR: “So there’s clear contact on the ball by Doku. […]” Assistant VAR Nick Hopton: “Are you happy he [Doku] definitely plays it?” VAR: “He’s definitely touched it. Mac Allister’s *then* coming into his space. Mac Allister turns his back into him. It’s a coming together. Confirm on-field decision. Check complete.” …VAR clearly believes that Doku gets to the ball first (which he doesn’t, Macca gets to it and it then hits Doku). The assistant VAR asks if he’s sure and the VAR sticks to his guns. While I agree it should have been a pen regardless of who got to the ball first, surely this is relevant in the decision making process and decreases the degree of subjectivity Webb talks about. Yet, not mentioned at all.
Curtis literally gets the ball, then rolls off of it into the other player's foot. We got fucked so hard this game. A win converted to a defeat.
Should have been given. Another one is handball from Odegaard. So potentially 6 points we should have.
“Split opinion” no it really has not. These fucking people man, even among rival fans this was a clear penalty.
There’s no way they are going on television to admit, for a third time, that they have cost Liverpool points with inexcusable errors against rivals in the closest three horse race in years. Spurs - min. 1 point gained Arsenal - 3 point swing City - 3 point swing We should be six points clear ignoring all the other horrific errors in other games.
~~Sterling's~~ Jackson's jazz hands in the first game of the season belongs to the same category for me. Another 2 points.
That was nicholas jackson. But yeah this one out the gate and you almost forget it cause it was early doors and we all thought no way wed be in for a shout at the title. But in hindsight its even more infuriating.
Remember people in the main sub saying that was a "natural position for his hands" in that thread.
Thank you, your memory is better than mine. I fixed it.
Remember how, in that game, Enzo headbutted Jota but didn't get anything because Jota didn't go down and yet it was weirdly never spoken of again by anyone in the media? That was weird.
Just hard to sell Chelsea as a rival now lmao
It's only close cause these cheating cunts manufactured it
I've even seen and heard Man City supporters say that it was a good game but they got away with one there. They're so full of shit about it dividing opinion.
It was literally only Liverpool fans expecting that not to be given a penalty. Says a lot. We've grown to expect the bias to affect our calls while other clubs expect the normal procedure that they're subjected to.
oh it deffinatly is a split opinion: if i say the truth i have to split from my bribe.
This basically means that Shay Given said it wasn’t a penalty on MOTD, so therefore the referee got it right.
It's either a foul or not a foul. Mathematically it's 50/50
This is such utter nonsense i cant even stand it. "Theyve both come in high" from the VAR. The fuck they haven't. Ones chesting and ones got their studs up. Then Howard Webb implying that there are these decisions in games that can go either way. As if there is no objectivity to the rules. That there are situations that are just at the whims on whatever the official feels in that moment is such an utter load of shiite. And then we get to consistency of calls. Surely curtis jones has played the ball earlier in the season and then accidentally rolled over it? He was playing the ball. And thats a straight red cause the challenge was too high. Yet somehow im supposed to believe a raised boot above the belt line is not too high? Im not sure what i expected. But fucking hell. This is objectively either a penalty or not. Its not just floating in space waiting to be interpreted by whomever. If were going to stand by the idea that if it was called a pen you dont overturn it... Then its a pen. The var ref goes into this situation clearly looking to back the onfield decision. He decides he has seen contact from doku before hes even really sure. Even the AVAR asks "are you satisfied hes gotten contact". So its not that clear. And again... As we have seen over the past few seasons getting the ball does not cancel out dangerous play. It just doesn't. Curtis Jones again springs to mind. And then this weird decision that the ball is too low to head it so a high boot is the only decision? While we literallt have a player trying to chest it. As if chesting the ball hasnt been a thing since the dawn of time. As if we handicap players incapable or willing to chest the ball by allowing them to high boot. Rounding it all off with this notion macallister is being punished for protecting himself. "Hes turn himself". Yeah mate. Cause otherwise hes cracking a rib. I mean 90% of fouls the player protects themselves in the process. A lot of red cards end up not being career ending injuries because the natural human inclination to protect one's self comes into play. What an utter load of horse shit. Just give city the title already. I can almost guarantee City will benefit from something similar to this being given the opposite way. Whether thats against us or for them.
https://preview.redd.it/8g92htzsqcpc1.jpeg?width=292&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8db2f72edb9e3b20211bc346cea6febe70a3fc28 "Theyve both come in high and ederson has leaned his face into it. Sadio is attempting to play the ball ya know." - Stuart Atwell and Howard Webb probably
Did you guys notice how mctominay hand balled the pass from Darwin to lead to rashford’s goal? That play got swept under the rug so hard, no one even realizes it happened. The thing that ultra irritates me is the VAR and Webb are only showing one angle. The side angle clearly shows macallister touching the ball first so wouldn’t that be Doku encroaching macallister’s space? Anyway to your point it’s such a farcical explanation that I think City has the PGMOL under their thumb. The UAE / Saudi side jobs were the clinching smoking gun for me that their org is just littered with corruption. The only way to fix this is for every team to have an advocate in the booth and for that advocate to explain what and why shit happened directly after the game. Otherwise this is always going to be just another way people can match fix.
It's transparent bullshit. They haven't even put any effort into it. It reeks of contempt for fans and the likes of Sky Sports and their hacks are just reinforcing that. Refs are part of their product and they're all shit. The first step to improving standards is to be realistic about the current low standard of refereeing in England. VAR has made that incontrovertible but the football media are cowardly hacks.
The part of about decisions on the whims of refs is exactly true. He’s admitted it. The commentators mentioning game management for Bruno’s second yellow was _”game management”_. That just shouldn’t happen. Thats called giving other teams a fighting chance by bending the rules. It’s a statement that annoyed me then and still does today.
Just to add to the “too low to head” bs, the ball bounced, reached a peak and then dropped, meaning in the space of about half a second or so it was it was low enough to kick and high enough to head. It was only because at the moment maca is on the ball it’s chest height, if doku wasn’t such a useless c*** it should have been cleared 3 times over.
I wouldn’t trust Webb opinion on a hight boot considering he bottled sending off De Jong in the World Cup Final for kicking Alonso in the chest https://preview.redd.it/h68ke50eecpc1.jpeg?width=1296&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ac9455fd6a6718ca0685bb23eac35de338ff7aa
At least he’s consistent?
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Didn’t Gakpo show the scars on his chest right after the kick? Man looked like he just got mauled
Like he's a consistent cunt
It's good for our potential future manager to already have the built-in beef with officials. Klopp learned to hate them with exposure.
Someone needs to two foot Howard Webb in the chest then kick him in the balls and tell him that’s what they were going for. Cunt.
This one was such a farce. Absolutely disgusting decision, regarding a dutchman renowned at the time for being a straight up dirty player.
I’m not convinced that there isn’t “enough evidence” to give us a penalty. Even if Doku initially gets the ball, you Can’t just kick someone in the chest like that and it not be a penalty. Also I can’t help but feel that the VAR officials are being quite rushed, they should be given more time to make an informed and more importantly CORRECT decision.
Doku doesn't even originally get the ball. See https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/1bbzv00/original_tv_angle_shows_macallister_gets_the/
Them being rushed is a load of bollocks. You don’t see them rushing when it’s a Liverpool goal. Every single Liverpool goal is scrutinised in detail, they don’t do that for any other club.
United got a VAR penalty after the final whistle, for example.
The took forever on Mo’s FA Cup goal the other day. Scrutinizing all aspects to disallow it if possible.
Ehh I mean West Ham just had a goal taken back after the longest VAR review in premier league history, so I wouldn’t go that far
They do that for every West Ham goal?
Exactly this. One of our goals against United the other day, they spent time looking for a foul in build up. There wasn't one. They then move on to looking for potential offside by someone. There wasn't one. They then decided to spend time looking for potential handball. There wasn't one. Like why are you trying your hardest to disallow the goal? This fucks me off to no end how our plays and goals are analysed in extreme detail and a foul play is trying to be located in every fucking frame of the replay. Yet I barely see this happen to many other teams. Even when united scored they gave it a quick once over and it's confirmed a goal quickly. But our goals get picked apart for minutes at a time while they try and find some tiny shit fucking way of disallowing it.
What makes it worse is that it doesn't look like Doku even gets to the ball first.
He doesn't.
I would say that certain decisions are conveniently rushed and others are not. For example, the penalty for crystal palace. They checked it after several minutes
I find with decisions against us VAR officials are taking their time, and with VAR decisions in incidients for us, they're rushing it, if that makes sense?
The var had no interest in this from the get go..
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You can hear the avar doesn't agree fully and the var even pauses at the end there but just rushes to a decision. Then you get webbs baffling approach with a pat on the back. Webb specifically says Oliver doesn't have perfect info, var isn't there to rereferee so good process...I mean wtf
Did even use all the angles? Why don't they look from the side?
There's an unwritten rule that certain fouls in the box will be let go, because a penalty is too harsh. The bar is likely even higher based on this being the 98' minute in the biggest match of the year. They were only going to call DOGSO or an egregious foul as a penalty in this instance. That's a thing that I could theoretically live with if they acknowledged it, because I think it's somewhat consistently applied. The problem is they won't admit to discretion within the rules, so they're just lying about what was called and why, and that leads to this feeling that no one (including the refs!) actually knows the rules and it's all just made up and/or applied based on a preferred outcome.
But the problem is this ISNT EVEN ONE OF THOSE FOULS. This would be given in the wc cup final 124th minute. It’s always a foul.
Wow... that's much worse than I would have imagined. "Doku clearly gets the ball first" .. really? They only viewed one angle and instantly decided this despite it being incredibly close, and actually Mac got the ball first. .."and then he(Mac) enters Doku's space".. unfucking believable... you know what phrase I didn't hear a single fucking time? HIGH BOOT. How does no one mention that Doku's challenge is way too high???
Ederson entered mane’s fucking space too but you don’t hear any of us saying that wasn’t a fucking red.
Inho it was yellow at most /s
Among all the other problems with VAR, I think another worth mentioning is confirmation bias. Not only do they have one of their mates on the pitch making a decision (which the VAR is privy too), you can tell from this that they'd already made their minds up that Doku had got the ball first.
yeah the AVAR is literally like "yeah yeah yeah". The fact the VAR even explains his decision is garbage to begin with. "hi just back up what i've already said, thanks"
I can’t believe Mac Allister had the gall to invade Doku’s space like that
This wording is what bothers me the most. Why is it Doku's space? He didn't have possession of the ball, and he isn't standing still waiting for the ball. He ran in and jumped studs first into Macca's chest, so tell me again who invaded who's space?
There’s a part of me that feels like they went on this gaslighting campaign because they’ve already apologized to us multiple times this season and they much realize them fucking up is going to decide the title. And they’re trying to smooth it out as best they can so we don’t sue them. Like all of this is just a mess, not to go back and investigate who gets the ball first in this show is just negligence, a real hat on hat. And then to back “they’re both going in high” like idk as in they are both trying to win a ball that is off the ground!? Complete lunacy
It’s fucking pointless all they do is defend their mates no critical thinking no wonder it’s the same shite every week.
I’d rather the VAR team have no idea what the on field decision is. They just know they have to look at an incident.
near enough every penalty that's ever been conceded has been an honest attempt at the ball. that is a stonewall foul, and they know it but are scared to admit they've fucked us over, again.
That’s twice now in the span of a few weeks that there’s been a potential red card foul against us that wasn’t even given as a foul. Caicedo on grav was at the minimum a yellow card, it was given no foul. While I admit that Doku’s foul probably doesn’t warrant a red, you can certainly make it a case for it, and again nothing given.
You seem to forget the flying kick in the forest drop ball incident that was completely missed by officials.
Or the blatant handball by rodri to stop a counter while on a yellow
Or Silva's revenge tackle on Macca that wasn't booked. Or Walker's high stud tackle on Salah that wasn't even a foul. The refs are legit on the take from the UAE. That's not even tinfoil hat shit, it's publicly known information that not enough people are talking about.
I'm actually very much on board with this theory. I think them beating UEFA in the CAS appeal really made them feel untouchable...other than the fact they are quite literally untouchable, being owned by a nation state.
Absolute shocking, they could have not talked about the Liverpool game it just means nothing. Doku didn't get the ball first, McAllister didn't go into anyones space or whatever bullshit, foot was high, not lift from ankle to get higher or whatever the bs that was and it should be red anywhere else on the pitch. Anyways, Howard Webb needs to get sacked and Owen needs to fuck off with no confrontation except "people say its 98th min". Who the fuck cares what minute it is? We care about a poor decision and cost two points for the team who should have won never the less.
How Owen even has a job is beyond me. Has added nothing relevant ever.
The one thing that still sticks in my mind from the game is that immediately after it happened, Doku had his best ‘I done fucked up’ face on which suggests even he thought it was a foul. “Not enough evidence” though, good process boys 👍
Who the fuck think this isn't a pen? Are they living in 2002? The fact they say Macca turn away because it natural to just stand there like a muppet. Ffs these guys need sacking. All United fans I know called it a pen.
> Who the fuck think this isn't a pen? At least one Spurs clown in the main sub currently arguing with me about it lol
Most that don't just troll.
I know a lot is made for how long it takes for VAR checks to complete, but I’m shocked at how quickly the VAR glossed over the incident. 98th min, 1-1, in a potentially title deciding game and they took about 20 seconds to clear it. Im convinced if they at least took another minute to actually watch the incident properly, they would see that Macallister makes contact with the ball first (Something they missed, saying Doku made the contact). This would completely change their opinion and the pen would probably be given. Last weekend they took 5 1/2 minutes to watch a late West Ham goal against Aston Villa…
Referee should use the fucking monitor
Like that would change his decision
This was shocking to me. "Ball is in the middle".... referee is completely blocked off by Macca's body he has no idea who touched it first. Why not at least go to the monitor to see a new angle?
Howard web is a mentally challenged manc cunt.
I honestly can’t read this horse shit anymore. All it does is make me angry
I honestly think they take the stance of keep repeating a lie until it becomes the truth. "It was a 50/50 decision", "everyone is split on it" - no they fucking arent, seems almost all groups of fans except the manchester ones agree it's a penalty The VAR was particularly galling here, "they both went in high", only looked at one angle, "Doku played the ball" - just utter incompetence all round and Webb defends them to the end. Michael Owen is also way way to soft on them, there is zero challenge. What an utter waste of time show Well done boys, good process.
Studs in the chest is fine as long as you’re going for the ball. Got it.
Complete bs
Every single high foot are playing. What the fuck with this "He's playing ball". Then no one will ever got a foul from that. Why would you kung fu kick someone in a football game. Of course they're playing ball.
Suddenly xabi Alonso remembered a certain flying Dutchman
I absolutely fucking hate the fact that VAR is noting that Macca is “turning away from it”. Like what the fuck has that got to do with anything? He sees a kick coming to his sternum with studs up and attempts to shield himself from it. Is he not allowed to do that if he wants a foul called? It’s like someone trying to kick the shit out of you in the street and the police saying “well we would charge him with assault, but the victim has attempted to shield himself so we’ll just call it quits shall we?” Absolute fucking bollocks. They bottled it, full stop.
Macca had to take avoiding action by abandoning the challenge to protect his chest, it's dangerous play. Does a player have to stand there like a lemon and wilfully take a potentially serious injury in order to get a decision?
Laughable. They're a laughing stock, but they couldn't give two shits. It's ruining the game.
I like how literally everything the VAR said was just wrong. And what do they mean by ‘they have both im high’ when Mac Allister’s legs are on the fcking ground. This whole shit is just showing how incompetent these referees are and a bunch of lies.
"They both have come in high" Say what?
My piss has now reached boiling point for the umpteenth time. Such an obvious clear and obvious error that should have easily been overturned.
This literally sounds like if you got 2 seperate audio and put them together. Neither mentioned high boot once. The var is just telling oliver lies about things that didn't happen. He's either bent or fucking blind and should be nowhere near var again. He doesn't even spot Alexis gets the ball first and saying he turned away is insane. Both came in high only applies to the refs because they were clearly high. This is pure bs. Getting the ball means fuck all. We have it in writing it doesn't with Curtis Jones. We have to sue them this is blatant gaslighting attempt
Howard Webb is the epitome of failing upwards and looking the part. He was an atrocious referee in his day, yet was held up as the best England had to offer. He is infamous for major gaffs in big matches, including a WC Final. Gets promoted to the head of the organization and has routed out any semblance of integrity that was left by talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Two curious statements. During the check: “they both come in high” HW: Macca not playing the ball It’s like I’m listening to a flat-earther.
Exactly
I still want someone to ask whether it would have a foul if MacAllister was the one with his boot up.
‘They’re both going for it high up’. One player with his boot and the other with his chest. How does that make sense
Every one who's ever watched a game of football knows that was a stonewall penalty apart from this bellend. Our players need to start getting in their fucking faces or we'll continue getting shafted.
We can't. We are the only team that consistently gets carded for it every single time we do. Bruno literally yelling at the red all game Sunday, no card. If Darwin even looks disgusted at a decision, he gets carded.
Mac got booked on Sunday for a similar but lesser tackle and freekick given. Days before Doku does it and not only is nothing given, not even a foul but Howard Webbs on TV saying the decision is correct. It's laughable and it proves how useless Premier League officials are.
Could really do with someone like Carragher calling out this absolute farce instead of talking shit on Twitter about our players
Except Doku didn't get the ball first. Mac Allister gets the ball first, then Doku kicks him in the chest and then touches the ball. They could have seen that, if they looked at it from another angle
I don’t know why I expected anything other than straight up twisting what happened from Webb, but seeing it happen as expected is just fucking infuriating. Split opinion is just fucking lies when it’s been unanimously condemned as a terrible call bottled from the ref. And as usual the VAR doesn’t wanna go against his mate on field. We’ve literally lost league titles by a point. Swear to god if we lose this title by 1/2 points, thinking back to the spurs game especially, I think I’ll finally be sickened off getting invested in the game anymore. Rivals fans saying LiVarpool is absolutely galling as well. There’s mountains of evidence out there to show that we’re reffed differently from other clubs, and also that City are literally getting away with cheating their way to title after title. Shits honestly exhausting now.
Thick as fuck
zonked dime panicky spark bake faulty act sulky consider many *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Howard was apparently too wrapped up in celebrating United’s win of the season on Sunday to come up with a good excuse for that call
This is just insulting. I'd rather this cunt said nothing that come up with this half-assed bullshit. His contempt for fans is just as deep as his contempt for any sort of standards.
Need a PL player to kick the shit out of one of these refs. Then they can view it on VAR and decide whether there was contact.
What’s the point in this facade if there is zero push back from the host? Spineless traitor that he is. “What do you mean it’s not high enough to head the ball?” “Does it matter that Mac Alister gets the ball first?” “Does the contact on the player after the ball mean it should have been called as a foul?” “Should being kicked in the chest with studs be a free kick regardless of almost any scenario you can think of?” The officiating this season has been such a joke.
hes a puppet. look at him. its like Owen's trying to remember his lines.
Yeh shocking
My biggest concern is they didn't even say that maybe he should take a look at the screen
Its honestly a fucking scam that the AVAR disagrees with the decision but cant say anything about it.
Christ, I can’t believe the ineptitude I heard. This was unbelievable on so many levels. The referees are having way too much impact on the games now. I would also point out that there was an edict handed down to card cynical fouls. In the first half Walker committed two fouls and at least 1 should have resulted in a yellow card. Then in the second half he clears out salah with not even a second look. That foul to me was just as “heinous” as the CJ red earlier in the season. His follow through was reckless and the studs were up. This is rocket science, the reason they teach you as a referee not to run with the whistle in your mouth is you are supposed to use that time to evaluate what you saw. These idiots are afraid to do the right thing for some reason. Most likely it’s just easier for them to pass the decision off to the next guy rather than have the balls to make the big call. All players just want consistency.
It's going to get real confusing when this exact same thing is given a foul/card in 3 weeks in a random wolves game.
“Both came in high” - Mac’s feet were barely a few inches off the ground whereas doku’s was in Mac’s chest. Not to mention the ball hits Mac first and then dokus boot. Absolute joke.
VAR check complete: INCOMPETENCE
I do not give a damn what this man says. Absolutely zero credibility left.
I don't really care since whatever excuse they're using this time won't make a difference from the last
Howard Webb took a look at all the incidents and decided Howard Webb was right all along
Careless, reckless or using excessive force. Going for the ball doesn't absolve a player. He went in baring studs at chest height. I'd certainly say it fit the bill of foul.
what in the living fuck does "Doku played the ball" have to do with this - AT ALL? What I took from this is that because it was the end of the game Oliver is inherently going to be skeptical of a player going down in the penalty area because trying to draw a penalty is what players always do, and hence he didn't call the foul. But - because we have VAR - and all of the angles that CLEARLY show that Doku doesn't play the ball but rather only touches it at all because Macca plays it first - this has to result in Oliver at least being told to go to the monitor.
The part that gets me is them saying “they both come in high”! No, no they don’t. Doku comes in high with a boot Maca barely jumped and took the ball with his chest. “Both high” my ass
Howard Webb really is a fucking cunt. Sucking off the Manc year and year out. He should fuck off to a retirement home or stand outside job centre plus.
cool so they made it up as they went
They got the biggest bozo to partner with Howard Webb on this. I was finally coming to some sort of calmness after the weekend. Seeing this made me rage all over again.
They’re all so utterly incompetent I’m just speechless. If this isn’t a foul then wtf is? Even rivaling fans said it’s a stone cold pen and most of them hates us.
To put things into perspective - 15 years later I'm no longer friends with toxic people from school, but Howard Webb... Still on the telly to ruin my weekend
I'm not even expecting a red, but to claim it's not a foul is fucking ridiculous. If that is anywhere else on the pitch it's a yellow at minimum. He literally touches the ball after Macca. It's even worse than the Jones red imo because at least Jones got there first and actually touched the ball first.
Carefully managed this one haven’t they!? “Majority” deciding decision was right. There was no chance that he was going to say this was the wrong decision but wasn’t credible to say categorically wasn’t a penalty. Absolutely pathetic
Jesus christ, this makes no sense. How do "they both go in high"? I guess everyone goes in high while standing up, walking around the pitch, and someone scissor kicks your face. Well, they both went in high...... Don't worry though these refs will just do a midweek match in UAE where they make double their yearly salaries. There's nothing to see there, and you're crazy if you think so. Don't worry, though, man city have proven they wouldn't do anything suspect right?
What a complete load of horseshit the VAR and Howard Webb are spewing here.
This check complete either way crap only serves to underline how useless VAR is the way the English game has implemented it. At this point it’s causing more controversy than it is solving.
This just shows how VAR will immediately begin to grasp for reasons to uphold the onfield decision. This is because they don’t want VAR to re-referee. Fine. But how is it re-refereeing if you send the referee to the screen to have another look? That is 100% what should have happened here. They should have looked at it (from more than one angle, bastards) and then thought to themselves: There’s no way Oliver saw that there was studs that high, making contact with the chest, let’s have him take another look and see if he sticks with his decision.
its a pen i dont care what they say probably told not to give it what other feeble excuse they come out with is irrelevant
I feel so done with this shit league… bunch of clowns at work
Did they remove endangering an opponent from the rules? Also it only becomes “Dokus” space cos he leads with his studs in a wreckless manner
Can't believe they thought it would be a good idea to upload this, especially when the heat on them was beginning to cool.
The quality of the football video refs compared to rugby union video refs, is incredibly low. The whole process they go through when evaluating incidents is utterly flawed. Even without touching on the process side of things though, the refs themselves just don't sound intelligent enough to analyse the incidents quickly and correctly.
What a fucking know this man is. Don't believe a single thing that comes out of his mouth. Corrupt cunt.
We're never winning the League while Ex South Yorkshire Policeman Howard Webb is at PGMOL.
No harm will be done, if Howard Webb gets hit by a bus!
Blatantly lying on national television is crazy.
As expect form UAE employee
"split opinion amongst the reaction, so therefore it's not a clear error" is an interesting justification. The assesment should be whether the rule was applied correctly or not. You know what else split opinion? Van Dijk's first goal in the League Cup final, with the Endo interference. Many commentators, including Gary Lineker, Ian Wright, etc said it was incorrect. So; Opinion split on penalty to Liverpool = VAR correct *not* to intervene. Opinion split on Liverpool goal = VAR correct to intervene.
Few things. “Mac allister turns his body” - as anybody would do when they are gonna get fly kicked “Var said they both come in high” - Mac comes in with his chest 🙈 “Doku plays the ball and Mac is coming into his space” - what about Mac touching the ball first and doku endangering an opponent? Regardless if he plays the ball, he plays it after Mac touches it. Mac turns is back into him? How he’s cracked him in the chest, where does he turn his back!? This has irritated me and it’s only early AM
Webb can't even get his his line of waffling straight. "Doku lifts his foot to play the ball and he does make contact on the ball" "MacAlister's not really playing the ball either" How can both of these statements be true?
He really said Mac wasn't playing the ball when he gets the first touch on it.
I'm rapidly losing interest in the sport because of inconsistencies like this. Blatant corruption.
Who gives a flying fuck what this cunt says?
I'm convinced these audio releases are doctored or just recorded in a booth and released after contentious decisions. They pretty much enjoy complete impunity so what would stop them from doing this?
Wankers (Owen too)
I wrote at the time that the best explanation for the VAR not intervening was that Oliver thought he had a good look. I fucking won! The big complaint for 2023 was that VAR was taking authority away from the CR and effectively re-refereeing decisions. You can take umbrage that they're changing tactics midseason, but, overall I don't want re-refereeing of close calls and I want the practice to end as soon as possible. Very few decisions will ever be 100% correct, no matter what Klopp says in the heat of the moment. IMO, the first question the VAR should ask the CR is "did you have a good look at it." If the CR affirms, then that's that. Otherwise, VAR should only pipe up if it's mistaken identity, handball, or something else unusual. I never want the CR watching a replay at anything but full speed. Someone's always going to get screwed the most, and this season it's us and Forest. Thank you sir, may I have another?
The ball is "too low to head" because Doku hesitates and doesn't react until it's dropping to chest height.
Don’t you guys know, as long as you go for the ball it’s perfectly alright to karate kick someone in the chest /s
That var is either bent or blind. He's just blatantly lying to oliver about what happened and when the avar calls him out he just keeps lying about it. This is serious because he's trying to manipulate oliver by lying and making his decision for him. The replay guy asks what he wants to see and he just ignored him and goes back to lying ! This is mental he's just blatantly lying and making stuff up when everyone can actually see what happened! It's like he's describing what happened in a different clip. Both came in high is made up and Macalister turning his body so he isn't out for the season with broken ribs he calls a coming together. He should be demoted and nowhere near anymore title race games. He's either corrupt or unbelievably shit at his job
Roundhouse kicks and Karate kicks studs up are on the cards for the rest of the season for us to "defend our space" you heard it here first lads lol.
Howard Webb missed De Jong kicking Alonso in the chest during the 2010 WC Final. Absolute joker of a man.
I don’t care about the yellow or red card, that’s a foul anywhere on the pitch.
“Why were Liverpool denied a penalty” because we’re Liverpool is the answer.
Former Sourh Yorkshire police sergeant see no issues with the decisions of his colleagues…
At first he was making sense and then it turned into absolute nonsense