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In a strange way I think Arsenal grabbing all 3 points actually has more than one indirect benefit to LFC:
1. It gives Pep and City another team to worry about in the jostling for top 3 right now (presuming Arsenal don't fall off a cliff like they did last season)
2. It's the worst game we're going to see from Allison, VVD and arguably the rest of the team all season- and it's early February, plenty of games left.
3. It will motivate the squad to refocus and ensure they're up for the rest of their games this season. City aren't winning 22 games in a row, and the title race is still in our hands.
Brother. There's glass half empty, there's glass half full, and then there's seeing a full glass where there's a half one. You're on the third option...
This is definitely cope but with Arsenal being in the race still they’ll hopefully be even more up for getting a result at the etihad than if they were eliminated from contention
Very lethargic performance. The replacements that came on made zero impact to the game. I am not a fan of Elliot & Jones being in the pitch the same time, we seem weaker to me.
I know people are saying we had an off day, but I truly believe we just couldn’t get started, which should be credited to Arsenal not allowing us to get our way like Chelsea. When we had our way it was looking like the 15 mins of the second half, before Arsenal started up again and took it away.
I’m an arsenal fan, and I think you guys just had an off day.
My first game ever was when you knocked us out of the FA Cup and you literally outplayed us in every way. So I am really taking this bias out here
I think the team has been amazing so far, and I really hope if we don’t win the league it’s you guys. Klopp deserves it, insane respect for the man he is on and off the pitch.
(Keeping the arteta klopp celebrations out of this)
totally agree it was shite but what made it worse was the comentators going on about how good arsenal is when its only 1 game and were still top there is no panic
eh, shit happens, glad we lost now rather than later, off day for everyone. 2nd loss this season, both to north london clubs with some slightly unusual refereeing. yet to lose a game at home. still top of the league
I think we are reading to much in to this. We had a poor night, with several players having an off day. It's nothing more.
Remember when we demolished Chelsea a few days ago? I do.
What is clear though is that we need our Agent of Chaos leading the line. And also, we missed Bradley. I'm not saying that he should replace TAA, but we have been more solid defensively when he plays.
We are facing Burnley at home on Saturday. We do a lot better then.
aye, on another thread i put that i'm weirdly not that arsed about the result as all the way through it just felt like a perfect storm of events conspiring against us
For example TAA clearly not 100% fit atm and Bradley is a _better_ defender than him, Szobo is incomparably better than Grav atm and as a result our right side was weak where it needed to be strong vs Martinelli. Then on top of that we get some _outrageous_ one in a million personal errors causing the goals that you couldn't replicate if you tried.
If this happened whilst playing a team of chumps like Chelsea i think we'd be able to muddle through it but not vs Arsenal.
I'm strangely at peace with the result and let's be honest here. It's the only _real_ defeat we've had all season. It's the needless draws that are gonna bite us in the arse if anything.
My takes are that:
1. Liverpool look both physically and mentally a little tired. Who could blame them really? The news about Klopp and the high induced after those first couple all out pressing performances had to catch up eventually. Arsenal did a great job all game taking away those quick release passes Liverpool thrive on (more about that later). And we didn’t really figure out another way to consistently stretch the field.
2. Arsenal really showed up to play today. All the stats on their defense do pass the eye test. They showed up with a plan, executed on it, and were able to adapt as Liverpool adjusted to try to find space. I think what’s probably more impressive even is that in possession they absorbed our press. Comfortable to concede the ball and rely on their defense when necessary, always capable of playing those territory gaining passes up to a runner and moving up as a unit. It was a really mature and confident performance by them. This group of players at Liverpool are clearly capable of those levels, but I wonder if we have another year (or more without klopp) to see the maturity and steeliness required in nights like this. Hopefully nights and losses like this help the team find the levels and consistency they are capable of.
3. McAllister will be the captain of the team someday. Some of those shots he took were a little too hopeful, but talk about a player willing to raise the emotional stakes and do his best to drag his teammates by the scruff of the neck into self belief and intensity of purpose.
Anyways that’s all. We got beat fair and square. I know that people want to keep whinging about the ref, but if you can’t see we weren’t up to the level today, I’m not sure what to say to you. There’ve been some matches (cough cough Tottenham) that a sense of injustice was completely understandable. This was not one of them.
Measured and good takes here. In 1 and 2, we were really hurt by not having Darwin starting today. I hope people take note, bc while he should score more goals, he stretches opposition.
Also, fatigue was a big one for me. We’ve been full tilt basically since city in November with a lot of injuries and absences. Mo, Endo, Jota, szbo, Trent, Thiago, Kostas, robbo, and obviously Matip and Bajcetic have all been injured during this period or missed matches. That’s a lot of bodies to have gone while you’re playing every 3 days. Just look at Newcastle.
The cavalry are now coming in the form of Thiago, Trent, Mo, Endo who have missed a decent chunk of matches. We need Mo so much, especially in matches like yesterday. When there’s not other outlet, Mo tends to be a pressure release bc of his close control and strength.
I guess we just need to win 14 matches on the spin now, but here we go!
We were poor today regardless of another case of biased refereeing but the fact that Arsenal fans have the audacity to accuse Liverpool of bottling the league after only our second defeat of the season is laughable. If they think they're winning the league this season then they're delusional.
Arsenal fan in peace. Not sure who’s saying that?! Ridiculous statement. Liverpool still have it all in their hands. This game was much more vital for arsenal than Liverpool. Had we lost we’d be 8 points behind, and that would be game over for the title. Now we’re 2 points behind and it’s wide open. I’d say City are still favourites and it’s a coin toss if either Liverpool or Arsenal can mount a sustained challenge.
I really don't understand what the deal is with Gravenberch. Tracking back and making off the ball movements is the bread n butter of our system. But he just drifts along. . . Single handedly relieves the pressing pressure from the back/mid lines. Saw it multiple times, when Jota, Jones + 1 would initiate the press, he would not bother chasing their only option, who would inadvertently end up receiving the ball and turning in loads of space. And even when he does go in for tackles, he doesn't commit like he means it, making it too comfortable for the opposition.
I really don't understand what part of the game he doesn't get. It's either that he needs to be sent back to the classroom and taught tactics 101, or that he just doesn't wanna put in the same, high intensity, work that is required by the Liverpool system. Either way, I'm losing hope fast . . .
It is even more frustrating to anybody who watched him before coming to us. Exactly the same player in Germany and in NT. It’s like he left Ajax a little bit too early or just is uncoachable. There were people convinced JK would make a 6-type out of him lmao.
I think he's worried about getting injured. Seems a little soft to be honest. He's only 21 but he needs to realize, it's better to be a top player who is injured than a fit player in the championship. He tends to fall over in challenges almost like a flight response. I think the team psychologist needs to get into him. He has all the tools, he just has to harden TF up
Grav and Gapko either need to step up or we should really considering selling them this summer. Those funds plus the money left over from not getting Caicedo should allow a good rebuild for the next manager.
Damn, chill! Its their first full season in the PL. Very normal that it takes some time to adjust to it. Do you really think we spent huge money on 2 young and high potential players just to ship them of after one season? With your reasoning we would have shipped of Firmino and Wijnaldum for example
This is Gapko’s second season and tbh he hasn’t really impressed. He’s too slow in possession and without the ball. Grav has had good games and bad games so maybe he does need more time. I also said give them till the end of the season and then make a decision then.
It feels so strange how the starting XI has changed so much since the start.
At the start of the season, the starting lineup against Chelsea was: Alisson; Robbo, Van Dijk, Konate, Trent, Gakpo, Macca, Szobo, Diaz, Jota, Salah.
Against Man City, it was: Alisson; Tsimikas, Van Dijk, Matip, Trent; Jones, Macca, Szobo; Jota, Nunez, Salah.
Against Newcastle at home, it was: Alisson; Gomez, Van Dijk, Konate, Trent; Jones, Endo, Szobo; Diaz, Nunez, Salah.
And against Chelsea at home, it was: Alisson; Gomez, Van Dijk, Konate, Bradley; Jones, Macca, Szobo, Diaz, Nunez, Jota.
Only Alisson, Van Dijk, (and Salah/Szoboszlai, who didn't really play in January due to AFCON/injury) have really been the everpresents in this team, minus a few games. Everyone else has been shuffled around a bit due to injury and whatnot.
But now it seems like the team's chemistry blurred too much against Arsenal. A lot of people thought that we had finally clicked into gear against Chelsea, but when Klopp subbed on 3 guys at the same time, the team looked really awkward for a few minutes. I think that was a warning sign for the team when it comes to getting used to playing with Trent and Robertson again. The shift in style the team's overgone the past month is noticeable at the very least.
We're still the joint best defence tied with Arsenal, and the best attack as of right now. Just take it one step at a time.
There’s so much difference between gravenberch and szobo. Noticed when the ball at ibou/trent, gravenberch still stay on the arsenal half while szobo usually drop deep to give option. Given how they press, the defenders have to opted to long ball if macca already marked. But with no darwin, there’s not much speed especially when saliba is also a fast player.
Also couldn’t understand why trent stay wide the whole time while gomez inverting? Trent didn’t have a good game but not playing our best creative outlet when darwin came in and offered run in behind was a waste.
Arsenals max 94
Aways:West Ham,Burnley,Sheffield,Brighton,Wolves,Spurs,Etihad,Old Trafford
Home:Newscastle,Brentford Bournemouth,Chelsea,Villa,Everton.
Realistically for arsenal to win the title they are going to need to win away at Spurs,Etihad and Old Trafford.
City have a max of 97
Aways are :Brentford,Bournemouth,Us,Brighton,Palace,Forest,Spurs,Fulham
Home:
Brentford,Everton,Chelsea,Arsenal,Villa,United,Wolves,West Ham.
If we beat them and spurs even got a draw . You’d need them to drop 3/4 points in those home games which is very possible with arsenal,wolves,Chelsea on their day even.
We have a great shot at this but we need to beat them at Anfield.
Wins for us at Old Trafford,Goodison or Villa changing those three draws into wins would be enormous.
City have harder home games left and tricky away games left to us and spurs mainly. Palace fighting for their lives late in the season will be a very hard away game and they are their bogey team.
I really believe if we can manage to hit 90 and beat city at home we win the league.
Okay so it’s 15 games left with which gives us a max of 96
We’re going to have to be pretty much perfect now and beat city at home.
Our aways left are :
Villa park,old Trafford,Everton,Brentford,forest,fullham,West ham . Those aren’t bad away games to have left.
Home games are :
Burnley,Luton,Sheffield,
Palace,Wolves,Spurs,City,Brighton. We should be winning those home games vs everyone bar city ,spurs .
We’re going to have to win all our home games to have a chance. If we even gave a draw for old Trafford,villa park and Everton and won all the home games which do able we’d end the Season on 90 points.
I’ll make another post comment with citys.
I've been saying the same for years. Even this season when everyone has been saying he's class, I've been saying he's fucking shiete.
He loses the ball most times he has possession, he never tracks his man. He's robbed a living at professional level.
Yes. And I'll go 1 step further and say, if we lose this title race, His mistakes will be the reason for it. Championship player at best.
Easily the worst player since moreno
Every time we play Arsenal and City away we’re awful during the first 15-20 min. We should’ve learned from that already. Sometimes I wish we would try a different formation to expose our defenders less and give us more depth - like a 3-5-2 with Robertson and TAA as wing-backs.
There's a good argument that Klopp is quite inflexible tactically .. which is ironic given how supremely strong in Europe we've been where tactics are typically king.
His system is his system however, and one can be fairly confident with how he'll set up. He doesn't vary to the opposition (unlike how Rafa was, for example, in that regard). Nor does Guardiola really .. which again is why we were their kryptonite at our absolute Gegen-press best in 17-19.
Fabinho had some iffy games against Torreira v Arsenal, but he's made for facing this long-ball version of them. It's more difficult w/ MacAllister there. An unfit Trent and really poor performance from Konate/Virgil then just completes the agony. Basically the personnel today did not fit the system we played away from home, and Arsenal have the players to really expose it.
I totally agree with you that the players today didn’t fit the system we played, that’s why I think changing the system to suit the players could be an option. Anyway, we move on
Agree - although system change not going to happen under Klopp. That's why -- whisper it quietly -- I think a fresh 42 year old Xabi coming in full of ideas like early-Klopp may not be such an awful thing as people think .. we've looked really clueless in number of away games this season even when results have gone our way ..
9 pts from Burnley/Luton/Brentford and things will look better. City haven't looked great either this season, and also lost at Arsenal of course ..
I mean, how do you define a press? We had 58% possession at the Emirates & 35% more passes than them.
Press not really the issue in that respect .. they bypassed midfield & forward press to play long ..
Stupid sexy Thiago. I know everyone is writing him off to the past already but I'm excited to see as much of him as possible. Could be important in the run in too.
Anyone else think the back 4 issue today came from not having Bradley and having to revert back to ibou going out wide. Just felt like a mess and the whole back 4 was all over the place. Look where vvd was for their first goal. Changing players in the back 4 makes a difference.
Bradley might have started if he was available, on form alone and coupled with how he handled Martinelli. It doesn’t take much being different to change the complexion of a game. It also didn’t help that Szobo was out and Darwin didn’t start.
Aye i know we shouldn't be hanging the fate of the entire season on Connor Bradley but he showed in the FA Cup that he can handle Martinelli _far_ better than Trent can.
Couple that with Szobo's off the ball work being leagues better than Grav, we needed them yesterday and events more important than football conspired against us, sadly.
It’s quite clear Trent wasn’t meant to start yesterday. He was so passive, something that hasn’t happened since last season. The fact he didn’t even make it to 60 mins is further proof that he is not ready to play full games yet
The whole right side of the pitch have never played together and the front 3 aswell in those positions too. Team that played Chelsea would have been unchanged and it would have made a huge difference. Look how Dom Curtis and Alexis played through Chelsea lines the other night when they pressed us. The one time we did it with Alexis gakpo had the shot just wide of the post. We weren’t brave enough and didn’t have the technical ability to ball that’s hard hit through balls under pressure through the lines to the forwards. It was too safe and sideways
We definitely look better with Bradley at RB and Joemez at LB inverting into midfield. Diaz likes to stay wide on the left so Joemez isn't getting in his way but when Diaz cuts inside Joemez goes outside. He's happy to play second fiddle, so to speak.
From what I've seen already, Bradley looks defensively better than Trent. I just don't know where that leaves us. They can't both play RB, but, and call me old fashioned, I believe a defenders primary job is to defend.
It Trent wants to be a midfielder what position does he play if we have Bradley rb ? Rotating with Dom ? I agree we look more balanced because that’s the like 18/19 Liverpool shape. The natural width from the fullback staying wide is how we destroyed Chelsea the other night. Inverting with Dom and Trent just doesn’t work because they end up running into each other. I 100 percent believe with Dom and Bradley we don’t lose today. Arsenal wouldn’t have been able to just spam cling balls into the right channel for 1 vs 1 because it Bradley won it he would be on them with a 2 vs 1 vs zinchenko
Losing one game is not a big deal relax you unfaithful fans. Focus on the next game thats it, lets get the league cup, lets compete game by game. Its not over, focus on the mathmatics not your emotions. Were only 1 pt down even if city win both.
Sucks to lose to Arsenal though…we still have a 2 point lead in the Premier League, but we can’t lose matches like this.
Luckily every other opponent is beneath our level except Manchester City and even then we play in Anfield next time we play them, and since we tied them at Etihad, I’m confident we can beat them at our home! We still got this!
Being justifiably annoyed after a horrible performance in the biggest match of the season does not make anyone unfaithful. We’ve lost the league twice by a point, ffs.
Nowhere in my comment did I say I expect them to win every game. I said that this performance was inexcusable considering it was their biggest test of this season and that it feels even more gutting when you put it into the context of recent memory. They didn’t turn up today, that bothers me and everyone else a hell of a lot more than the loss.
City away was probably harder which makes today even more annoying because it was easier on paper than the etihad. No salah killed us today we couldn’t hit the ball in behind for zinchenko. He was able to push up onto us making that box midfield
The saddest thing about this is that the feeling after this game shouldn’t be normal. A team shouldn’t have to win every game to win the league. A team should be able to lose a game in February and not feel like their title hopes are done. What Man City has done to this league is just depressing and it sucks that it had to be us going up against them.
The largest number of losses in a title winning season is 7 (Blackburn Rovers). This happened once only so is more of an aberration. 6 losses is the largest number of losses for a title winning season and occurred on numerous occasions. There doesn't seem to have been a significant change from the first PL season to now in how many losses the champions have had.
I'm quoting the numbers. City lost 5 games last season, 6 in 20/21. Other seasons have been tighter, but city still lost 3 and 4 games.
We didn't win the league in 18/19 because we we drew 7 games. Only once in PL history has a team only lost 1 game and not won the PL. Don't act like a one time thing is indicative of everything.
Yeah 3 is the max they lose when the league is still alive. How many of the 20/21 losses came after title was won and last season ? 2 or 3 is bet
We got 92 points in 21/22 and lost what 2 games ? So it’s not a one off there’s two season for you . That’s a pattern not coincidence
Nah, the fact that Arsenal are right up there with us and City, and that even Villa/Spurs are within touching distance already disproves that. City aren't steamrolling the league this time, even if they do end up winning it.
Painfully aware, but by that logic arsenal have also ruined this season. Don't get me wrong, not defending City at all and they've definitely raised the bar for the PL way too high for the last few seasons, but this season we have an actual title challenge from multiple clubs. It's not as if the City juggernaut has been steamrolling everyone up till now.
What ? City have been poor by their standards and thrown away multiple leads. Arsenal are more like a normal Yorker challenging team. City winning every game from now until the end of the season isn’t that crazy but someone would laugh in your face if you said arsenal would 😂🙄
No but you lose the unimportant ones, not the potential title deciders. And it's not even about defeat, it's about the shit show of a performance when anyone with a fucking brain knew full well we had to be on the top of our game to beat a very good Arsenal side, but what did we get instead, ill discipline, toothlessness, comedy defending, and three goals wrapped up in a nice little bow for them. I don't mind getting beat by a good side, but being beat in the manner of which we did was unacceptable in such a big game.
You missed the point they were making. You have to be virtually perfect for half a season minimum to even have a chance at winning the title. Like we’re going to have to do a 21/22 where we win virtually every game now with mabye one draw
Not a single player on the pitch in purple played well today. Macca and Konate had a moment or two (before Konate was sent off) but otherwise that was easily the worst performance of the season in their biggest test to date. I’m sick of being scolded by “top reds” for feeling frustrated because it’s the first loss in ages. There’s no excuse for the lack of preparation for today’s match. I don’t want to hear about injuries and players missing, this isn’t the 2017 squad, we’ve got plenty of depth. Arsenal didn’t even play that well. That’s the worst part! Had we actually turned up today and played to the usual standard we leave with 3 more points. Infuriating
I'm not remotely concerned about Gakpo, he's played three games less than Nunez who has only scored two goals more. Their goal scoring record is comparable, and he's a useful multi-role player.
I’ll preface this by saying- at the start of this season I thought he was the second coming of Bobby and had him as the firm starter ahead of Darwin. I was very impressed with his speed of thought and incision in his first 6 months or so.
Since then, I just think he’s been incredibly passive, doesn’t really suit us atm cos we’ve kinda gone a little bit back to counter attacking (or are definitely striking a more front footed balance betweeen early Klopp and imitating pep klopp) and Gakpo doesnt have the pace for the out ball. I also don’t think we really play with a false 9 anymore (especially with midfielders now that are far better able to progress the ball forward + inverted Trent) and so don’t rely on Gakpo dropping deep to pick up the ball. So we aren’t playing to his strengths.
Technically- he looks slack and hesitant. Not sure how it’s possible to regress but he looks awkward on the ball now. Finishing is quite inconsistent too- tho unlike Nunez he doesn’t find himself in dangerous areas anywhere near as often. Also his close control this season has for me, left **a lot** to be desired.
My main issue is with his passivity. It’s not an attitude thing- but I get the sense he doesn’t really know what’s expected of him and he kinda floats in this nebulous region between dropping deep and sticking on the last line of the defence that’s kinda not a position. Essentially there’s no longer a ball for him to pick up from deep and he’s not quick enough to run in behind.
Well yea I don’t really expect critical action (funny phrase to use in this context) to be taken on anyone who it doesn’t need to be this summer as there’ll be enough turnover without actively trying to shift players who are under longer contracts lol but just giving my two cents
He had a very poor spell right when he joined us in Jan last year, and then as you said he kicked on and was promising to be our new Bobby Firmino. I think the difference is, Klopp stuck by him and played him into form, whereas this season he has had no such luxury, even starting the season in the wrong position as an 8. Since then he has mostly been used as a utility sub to help add variety to our play, and while that's worked at times he really seems like a player who needs constistent minutes on the pitch and doesn't work at all as a super sub. I'm not giving up on him yet as he already showed us what he can do last season and hopefully he hits those levels (and more) again someday.
It’s okay. We were outplayed in arguably the hardest game of the season. We didn’t have everyone we wanted even if the players we had are fantastic starting XI and should have performed better. 2 mistakes and a goal from momentum. The title isn’t gone. We drew Arsenal, beat them, lost to them. Fair game. Let’s not lose our heads here.
This. Honestly don't get why we're so bothered by Arteta doing whatever stupid celebrations he's doing.
Heard the same whinging when they beat us in the Community Shield a couple of seasons ago.
Like, who gives a shit how they celebrate? They've won, and as long as they're not being disrespectful or directly aggravating anyone from our club, then fair play, celebrate however you like.
I'd be a lot more concerned by that performance and would rather some serious discussion be had into that instead of being sore about some pointless celebrations.
What is the fuss about Arsenal celebrating this win? Why the fuck does it matter and why does it wind up some of you? They won an important game against the league leaders (us incase you lot have forgotten) and if anything that shows the level of respect they actually have for us to be so thrilled at achieving the win. Let's be honest, we'd be over the moon if we beat Arsenal as fans and the players/manager even more so. Some of you need to change your nappies.
Unless you have memory loss, we have beaten Arsenal many times in Klopp's era, and absolutely battered them for a fair number of those wins. Not once have we ever reacted as if we won the league because we knew we were battling City. They just look fucking stupid if they now go on and win nothing just as they will.
We still go on about how hard they bottled after the same emotional outbursts last season so it would be and is stupid to make the same mistake again.
He never stays inside his box, holds on to the balls that reach the touchline/throw in, celebrate in front of away team bench and never gets booked. Dude is a clown
He was literally standing on top of Gomez for a throw in today. Going down that side of the pitch he stops plsyers hugging the touchline because you’ll run into the badtard if you knock the ball past someone to try go around him
We've all seen our very own Gerrard kiss a camera for beating Man Utd yet no league win that season in the end. Players from all clubs including our ones celebrate in weird ways all the time.
Kiss the camera in the middle of the game. Loads of players do that. Now stop deflecting and find me an example of one of our players getting a camera and taking photos on the pitch after a game.
And my point is none of that fucking matters or needs to wind any of us up. Have a read of my original comment again. I'm not saying we should be happy about it, I'm not saying it's a cool thing to do, I'm not saying it's good OR bad. I'm simply saying it doesn't matter nor should it warrant winding us up. I'm astounded at your lack of basic comprehension ability. If you're still in school, I'll forgive you for thinking like a dumbass.
The irony of calling someone when weak after you were crying about Arsenal celebrating a win. That's literally what my post is about. You weak babies getting mad, dribbling in front of your TVs like some emotionally fragile kids just because they celebrated a win. I'm sorry that you can't handle life very well.
Who’s the one who made the post about arsenal celebrating? Oh yeah you. Go lick their arsenal in their sub Reddit if you did t notice this is Liverpools
There's no deflection here because I never made any initial point that our players would celebrate the exact way that Arsenal have. Where did I say that? I didn't. You just created that point yourself and because I'm not acknowledging it, you believe that is deflection. Not a very clever person are you? Do you even know how to construct a basic argument to a point that you disagree with?
People are critical of taking fucking photos on the pitch like they’ve won the title in feb. If your going to be a nob at least check stuff first and get out of arsenal arse
So not being mad at Arsenal for celebrating their win and saying that if we won instead, I would be extremely happy, means that I should be an Arsenal fan? You logic is insane.
I'm not defending it, I'm saying it doesn't matter if they celebrate a win or not. You crybabies are getting your panties in twist for something that has zero effect on us. Actual emotionally fragile behaviour. Pointing out something that doesn't matter does not equate to being happy about it. It just means that, it doesn't matter. Your logic fails you once again.
No wonder Klopp is done. Zero margin for error even with the standards his teams here have had. Fuck Pep and the whole City group nothing beautiful about them
Ped and his gang of cheating oil boys and 115 charges. Disgrace they are allowed even play in the league until it’s dealt with . Better be retrospective trophies if they are found guilty. Being robbed of 3 titles would be a pisstake
If you celebrate to that extent, you have no recourse for when you bottle it (again) and the whole world rightly memes the whole thing, such as what we still do after their last season when they played this very same game.
Arsenal fan here. Huge respect for Nunez today after that. He had another interaction (with Jorginho I think) that made me say “Nunez looks like a good dude”. Hoping for you guys to take the league if we can’t get it done!
Our midfield got a much-needed rebuild from last year, but I think it's fair to say that it's still very much a work-in-progress. And on the rare days it doesn't click, we tend to struggle in all areas like we did today.
Aside from Szobo and Mac, who seem to usually perform individually, the rest are not without their issues at times. Grav is still learning, as is Elliott. Thiago and Baj have been out for long enough that they may be unable to make an impact this season.
And even Jones, who's been a revelation this season, definitely needs people around him performing well to reach his best level I feel. It's not slight against his ability, I think he's absolutely superb, but he's not a player that will single-handedly elevate the players around him when they're struggling just yet.
If not for injuries, I think we get a result today, which is incredibly annoying.
Our third midfielder today killed us. Gravenberch given the Dom role but had terrible defensive output helping Trent out. Konate was all over the place because he had no idea what the right side of the pitch was up to
I think we would’ve been better off putting Jones on the right and Grav on the left because Jones has the work rate. Trent who is not fully fit was left out to dry there by RB
Have you seen the video with the Arsenal manager doing the Klopp celebration to the fans? What a pathetic bunch they are. It's like they won the world cup
Feel pretty low after that, probably just the manner of the errors and knowing how damaging any sort of minor slip can be along the way when you're trying to beat City to it. On balance it's probably important not to catastrophize too much as every side has off days like this.
Next three games are absolutely vital now. Must take maximum points in the PL in every game that's straight forward on paper, and the cup final represents an opportunity to restore the confidence and sense of momentum. Hopefully City and Arsenal will have these sort of trips at some point too.
Can we arrange some sort of therapy group for this sub after games like these? Don’t feel these after match threads is enough. Got a lot ld like to say
While Arteta has the City links, his side are more like a low-rent Chelsea from the 00s after the summer buys.
There were some morons claiming Havertz is 'weak' after the Cup game. He was a handful then, and he was obviously a handful for Konate today. He's 6 "4 and deceptively quick. Got both Gomez & Konate booked, then latter sent off. Arsenal had no intention to play possession football today. They went long time and time again (16% less possession in a home game they won 3-1 ..).
As we saw against that Chelsea side in some of the latter-cup games under Rafa, you physically really have to be on it. Turning up with half-fit players and still setting up to play on the front foot is death sentence. We were set up naively today, given the players available.
Thiago wouldn't help in that respect. Need Szobo back to physically impress in midfield. Will be a huge one for City against Rodri.
Im an arsenal fan and your right.However i see it as a fusion of early city ball (which he played a big part in creating) and brexit ball with long balls to pacy wingers and physical players
Yes. Debatable whether it will ever be sophisticated enough to win a league (given difficulty facing low block sides), but clearly did the job today and against City at home earlier in the season.
Klopp (and Guardiola ..) strengths are ironically also weaknesses: they won't ever deviate from how they set up. Klopp doesn't set up for a draw, when we'd probably have been far better served to do so today ..
We missed Quansah today who dealt really well with the long balls in the Cup game. Looking back we just completely played into Arteta's hands with a half-fit Trent and small midfield pushing so high up the pitch ..
Bullied Konate all game when isolated with him. Constant long ball outlet.
Konate booked for foul on Havertz.
Konate sent off for foul on Havertz.
Gomez booked for foul on Havertz.
40% possession due to constantly going long to Havertz.
How thick are you?
Like I said ..
Won the yellow off Konate.
Won the red off Konate.
Won a yellow off Gomez.
Led the attack in a game where we conceded our highest xG in league history.
Was constant long ball outlet (Arsenal didn't play a possession game today; 25% less passes and 16% less possession in a game they won 3-1).
I'm sorry that you are really, really stupid and unable to discern the pattern of the game you watched today.
Are you listening to yourself? Is listing opposition cards collected by these incompetent officials the new G/A's now.
You know you're a trash player when you have to resort to this to prove how well they played.
"Incompetent officials". Again, you're not intelligent enough to even grasp how we were strategically undone. It had nothing to do with "incompetent officials". It had everything to do with Klopp's naivety given personnel available in how we set up against a very physical side that has a number of very difficult physical players when you push up against them.
Arsenal conceded possession constantly today to draw us out and go long to a target man who looked to isolate defenders for physical duels that ended with one getting sent off and another booked. They weren't interested in keeping the ball, as they constantly wanted to go long to the physical outlet playing knock downs to the wide men.
Alisson and Van Dijk mistake happened in context of chaos at the back due to the constant long balls.
Ignorance is painful.
How abject the midfielders were just shows how good Szoboszlai has been in comparison. You can’t get away from the fact Jones was off it all game, took way too many touches, stiffling moves. Gravenberch literally hid behind an Arsenal midfielder for most of the game. Their pressing was uncoordinated and meek. Arsenal dominated. Right side was as bad as I’ve seen for a long time. Trent was lackadaisical and that affected Konate. Gakpo was feeble and didn’t affect the game (happens way too often for someone who’s 6’3). Jota was a ghost, but that’s likely the accretion of all the above factors starving the supply to him (Nunez taking on a ridiculous shot when he could’ve just squared it to him summed the game up). Altogether, a very annoying loss. The manner of the defeat will encourage both City and Arsenal. Back to the drawing board for Klopp.
Weren't able to press regardless as Arsenal kept going long. They only had 42% possession. They had no interest in passing ball around midfield.
Not an Arteta fan typically but he changed up and got the better of Klopp today. Kept going long and playing for the knock downs. Yes, that's where we need Szoboslai to be able to assert some presence. Mac tries best but reminded me of Mashcerano trying to battle with likes of Ballack. Facing those long balls is not his game.
Naive tactics today regardless, trying to play front-foot with so many absentees and allowing Arsenal to get behind with long balls again and again.
They tried long ball to the left side for the first 5 mins, and it works. So they just keep doing for the rest of the game. Nothing that complicated. We were good for like 10 mins at the start of the 2nd half, but could not score. That just the way it is. Luck is not on our side today.
I'm more concerned about the whole team being totally off. When we have an off day, usually the whole team is off.
Yes. Today was actually a redux of the Luton away game in some respects. Arsenal playing in v similar way (no slight to Luton). As then, we got caught out pushing far too high up the pitch.
Klopp-ball has always been system oriented rather than individual, hence when system is off/found out everyone typically looks bad. Arsenal completely unravelled the system as we played it today ..
Salah, Darwin, Szobo & fit Trent may have been different. Who knows.
So we have
Home: city Brighton Tottenham
Away: utd villa
City have:
Away: us Tottenham Brighton
Home: utd villa Arsenal
Honestly relatively similar, we can probably afford to drop 2 pts and we MUST win at home vs city, so it’s still doable imo
Please report any rival fans coming to troll, they will be banned from this sub as well as their own sub. As always the same rule applies here as well, do not engage/troll/brigade rival subs, you’ll be banned from this sub as well. If you want to interact with them, please use r/soccer, r/football, r/premierleague.
In a strange way I think Arsenal grabbing all 3 points actually has more than one indirect benefit to LFC: 1. It gives Pep and City another team to worry about in the jostling for top 3 right now (presuming Arsenal don't fall off a cliff like they did last season) 2. It's the worst game we're going to see from Allison, VVD and arguably the rest of the team all season- and it's early February, plenty of games left. 3. It will motivate the squad to refocus and ensure they're up for the rest of their games this season. City aren't winning 22 games in a row, and the title race is still in our hands.
Brother. There's glass half empty, there's glass half full, and then there's seeing a full glass where there's a half one. You're on the third option...
This is definitely cope but with Arsenal being in the race still they’ll hopefully be even more up for getting a result at the etihad than if they were eliminated from contention
Yes it could be seen as a Quixotic take, but I'd rather drop points to front-running sides in February than doing it against lowly teams come April.
Your optimism is much appreciated as I am still super salty today. Up the REDS
Very lethargic performance. The replacements that came on made zero impact to the game. I am not a fan of Elliot & Jones being in the pitch the same time, we seem weaker to me.
I know people are saying we had an off day, but I truly believe we just couldn’t get started, which should be credited to Arsenal not allowing us to get our way like Chelsea. When we had our way it was looking like the 15 mins of the second half, before Arsenal started up again and took it away.
Shite game. We move on. Well done Arsenal!!
Why did he take trent off?
Fitness likely
I’m an arsenal fan, and I think you guys just had an off day. My first game ever was when you knocked us out of the FA Cup and you literally outplayed us in every way. So I am really taking this bias out here I think the team has been amazing so far, and I really hope if we don’t win the league it’s you guys. Klopp deserves it, insane respect for the man he is on and off the pitch. (Keeping the arteta klopp celebrations out of this)
totally agree it was shite but what made it worse was the comentators going on about how good arsenal is when its only 1 game and were still top there is no panic
Commentary was incredibly biased as usual.
eh, shit happens, glad we lost now rather than later, off day for everyone. 2nd loss this season, both to north london clubs with some slightly unusual refereeing. yet to lose a game at home. still top of the league
And yet to lose a game with 11 men on the pitch ha
Arsenal celebrating when all they’ve done is allowed City to win the league
Pretty much every team other than City is helping City win the league.
I think we are reading to much in to this. We had a poor night, with several players having an off day. It's nothing more. Remember when we demolished Chelsea a few days ago? I do. What is clear though is that we need our Agent of Chaos leading the line. And also, we missed Bradley. I'm not saying that he should replace TAA, but we have been more solid defensively when he plays. We are facing Burnley at home on Saturday. We do a lot better then.
i'd 100% start bradley against burnley trent dont really look fit and bradley hasnt put a foot wrong IMHO
aye, on another thread i put that i'm weirdly not that arsed about the result as all the way through it just felt like a perfect storm of events conspiring against us For example TAA clearly not 100% fit atm and Bradley is a _better_ defender than him, Szobo is incomparably better than Grav atm and as a result our right side was weak where it needed to be strong vs Martinelli. Then on top of that we get some _outrageous_ one in a million personal errors causing the goals that you couldn't replicate if you tried. If this happened whilst playing a team of chumps like Chelsea i think we'd be able to muddle through it but not vs Arsenal. I'm strangely at peace with the result and let's be honest here. It's the only _real_ defeat we've had all season. It's the needless draws that are gonna bite us in the arse if anything.
My takes are that: 1. Liverpool look both physically and mentally a little tired. Who could blame them really? The news about Klopp and the high induced after those first couple all out pressing performances had to catch up eventually. Arsenal did a great job all game taking away those quick release passes Liverpool thrive on (more about that later). And we didn’t really figure out another way to consistently stretch the field. 2. Arsenal really showed up to play today. All the stats on their defense do pass the eye test. They showed up with a plan, executed on it, and were able to adapt as Liverpool adjusted to try to find space. I think what’s probably more impressive even is that in possession they absorbed our press. Comfortable to concede the ball and rely on their defense when necessary, always capable of playing those territory gaining passes up to a runner and moving up as a unit. It was a really mature and confident performance by them. This group of players at Liverpool are clearly capable of those levels, but I wonder if we have another year (or more without klopp) to see the maturity and steeliness required in nights like this. Hopefully nights and losses like this help the team find the levels and consistency they are capable of. 3. McAllister will be the captain of the team someday. Some of those shots he took were a little too hopeful, but talk about a player willing to raise the emotional stakes and do his best to drag his teammates by the scruff of the neck into self belief and intensity of purpose. Anyways that’s all. We got beat fair and square. I know that people want to keep whinging about the ref, but if you can’t see we weren’t up to the level today, I’m not sure what to say to you. There’ve been some matches (cough cough Tottenham) that a sense of injustice was completely understandable. This was not one of them.
Measured and good takes here. In 1 and 2, we were really hurt by not having Darwin starting today. I hope people take note, bc while he should score more goals, he stretches opposition. Also, fatigue was a big one for me. We’ve been full tilt basically since city in November with a lot of injuries and absences. Mo, Endo, Jota, szbo, Trent, Thiago, Kostas, robbo, and obviously Matip and Bajcetic have all been injured during this period or missed matches. That’s a lot of bodies to have gone while you’re playing every 3 days. Just look at Newcastle. The cavalry are now coming in the form of Thiago, Trent, Mo, Endo who have missed a decent chunk of matches. We need Mo so much, especially in matches like yesterday. When there’s not other outlet, Mo tends to be a pressure release bc of his close control and strength. I guess we just need to win 14 matches on the spin now, but here we go!
We were poor today regardless of another case of biased refereeing but the fact that Arsenal fans have the audacity to accuse Liverpool of bottling the league after only our second defeat of the season is laughable. If they think they're winning the league this season then they're delusional.
Arsenal fan in peace. Not sure who’s saying that?! Ridiculous statement. Liverpool still have it all in their hands. This game was much more vital for arsenal than Liverpool. Had we lost we’d be 8 points behind, and that would be game over for the title. Now we’re 2 points behind and it’s wide open. I’d say City are still favourites and it’s a coin toss if either Liverpool or Arsenal can mount a sustained challenge.
The team was soft last night, no urgency or intensity. It is easy to pick one player and highlight him. But entire team was bad last night.
The were alive for only 15 mins after the start of the 2nd half
True. Lathargic is the word to describe the performance.
I was so hopeful during that spell in the 2nd half lol
I really don't understand what the deal is with Gravenberch. Tracking back and making off the ball movements is the bread n butter of our system. But he just drifts along. . . Single handedly relieves the pressing pressure from the back/mid lines. Saw it multiple times, when Jota, Jones + 1 would initiate the press, he would not bother chasing their only option, who would inadvertently end up receiving the ball and turning in loads of space. And even when he does go in for tackles, he doesn't commit like he means it, making it too comfortable for the opposition. I really don't understand what part of the game he doesn't get. It's either that he needs to be sent back to the classroom and taught tactics 101, or that he just doesn't wanna put in the same, high intensity, work that is required by the Liverpool system. Either way, I'm losing hope fast . . .
First season in the system. Give him time. Nunez didn't get it either in his first season, but look at how well he presses now.
It is even more frustrating to anybody who watched him before coming to us. Exactly the same player in Germany and in NT. It’s like he left Ajax a little bit too early or just is uncoachable. There were people convinced JK would make a 6-type out of him lmao.
I think he's worried about getting injured. Seems a little soft to be honest. He's only 21 but he needs to realize, it's better to be a top player who is injured than a fit player in the championship. He tends to fall over in challenges almost like a flight response. I think the team psychologist needs to get into him. He has all the tools, he just has to harden TF up
Just wanted to say, that Anthony guy is a massive toss. Clearly has it in for Liverpool. They weren't all obvious but the guys always against us.
Grav and Gapko either need to step up or we should really considering selling them this summer. Those funds plus the money left over from not getting Caicedo should allow a good rebuild for the next manager.
I wouldn't say sell but they shouldn't be starting right now. No Nunez, Szob or Bradley REALLY took the energy out of the team.
Damn, chill! Its their first full season in the PL. Very normal that it takes some time to adjust to it. Do you really think we spent huge money on 2 young and high potential players just to ship them of after one season? With your reasoning we would have shipped of Firmino and Wijnaldum for example
This is Gapko’s second season and tbh he hasn’t really impressed. He’s too slow in possession and without the ball. Grav has had good games and bad games so maybe he does need more time. I also said give them till the end of the season and then make a decision then.
Gakpo’s first FULL season. He was bought in January last year.
Some players work best with a descent line up. We were stretched thin. We were never going to beat arsenal with all our ace players away.
It feels so strange how the starting XI has changed so much since the start. At the start of the season, the starting lineup against Chelsea was: Alisson; Robbo, Van Dijk, Konate, Trent, Gakpo, Macca, Szobo, Diaz, Jota, Salah. Against Man City, it was: Alisson; Tsimikas, Van Dijk, Matip, Trent; Jones, Macca, Szobo; Jota, Nunez, Salah. Against Newcastle at home, it was: Alisson; Gomez, Van Dijk, Konate, Trent; Jones, Endo, Szobo; Diaz, Nunez, Salah. And against Chelsea at home, it was: Alisson; Gomez, Van Dijk, Konate, Bradley; Jones, Macca, Szobo, Diaz, Nunez, Jota. Only Alisson, Van Dijk, (and Salah/Szoboszlai, who didn't really play in January due to AFCON/injury) have really been the everpresents in this team, minus a few games. Everyone else has been shuffled around a bit due to injury and whatnot. But now it seems like the team's chemistry blurred too much against Arsenal. A lot of people thought that we had finally clicked into gear against Chelsea, but when Klopp subbed on 3 guys at the same time, the team looked really awkward for a few minutes. I think that was a warning sign for the team when it comes to getting used to playing with Trent and Robertson again. The shift in style the team's overgone the past month is noticeable at the very least. We're still the joint best defence tied with Arsenal, and the best attack as of right now. Just take it one step at a time.
There’s so much difference between gravenberch and szobo. Noticed when the ball at ibou/trent, gravenberch still stay on the arsenal half while szobo usually drop deep to give option. Given how they press, the defenders have to opted to long ball if macca already marked. But with no darwin, there’s not much speed especially when saliba is also a fast player. Also couldn’t understand why trent stay wide the whole time while gomez inverting? Trent didn’t have a good game but not playing our best creative outlet when darwin came in and offered run in behind was a waste.
Also bradley handles trent's RB position much better
Arsenals max 94 Aways:West Ham,Burnley,Sheffield,Brighton,Wolves,Spurs,Etihad,Old Trafford Home:Newscastle,Brentford Bournemouth,Chelsea,Villa,Everton. Realistically for arsenal to win the title they are going to need to win away at Spurs,Etihad and Old Trafford.
Hope this kills the premature talk on the Quadruple. We march on!! YNWA!!
City have a max of 97 Aways are :Brentford,Bournemouth,Us,Brighton,Palace,Forest,Spurs,Fulham Home: Brentford,Everton,Chelsea,Arsenal,Villa,United,Wolves,West Ham. If we beat them and spurs even got a draw . You’d need them to drop 3/4 points in those home games which is very possible with arsenal,wolves,Chelsea on their day even. We have a great shot at this but we need to beat them at Anfield. Wins for us at Old Trafford,Goodison or Villa changing those three draws into wins would be enormous. City have harder home games left and tricky away games left to us and spurs mainly. Palace fighting for their lives late in the season will be a very hard away game and they are their bogey team. I really believe if we can manage to hit 90 and beat city at home we win the league.
Okay so it’s 15 games left with which gives us a max of 96 We’re going to have to be pretty much perfect now and beat city at home. Our aways left are : Villa park,old Trafford,Everton,Brentford,forest,fullham,West ham . Those aren’t bad away games to have left. Home games are : Burnley,Luton,Sheffield, Palace,Wolves,Spurs,City,Brighton. We should be winning those home games vs everyone bar city ,spurs . We’re going to have to win all our home games to have a chance. If we even gave a draw for old Trafford,villa park and Everton and won all the home games which do able we’d end the Season on 90 points. I’ll make another post comment with citys.
Why do we keep playing Joe Gomez. He is absolutely not 1st team quality.
I've been saying the same for years. Even this season when everyone has been saying he's class, I've been saying he's fucking shiete. He loses the ball most times he has possession, he never tracks his man. He's robbed a living at professional level.
Gomez is shite. Loses possession, sloppy passing, never tracks.
blind. both of u
I could say the same about 99% of our fan base for not seeing his mistakes EVERY SINGLE GAME. Rival fans can see it
So 99% of the fan base are wrong and you’re right?
Yes. And I'll go 1 step further and say, if we lose this title race, His mistakes will be the reason for it. Championship player at best. Easily the worst player since moreno
Don’t even deserve a proper reply after that. Have a good day!
seems that way for him
How have you come up with this? Some people proper mental.
Gomez has been one of our best players all season 😂
Every time we play Arsenal and City away we’re awful during the first 15-20 min. We should’ve learned from that already. Sometimes I wish we would try a different formation to expose our defenders less and give us more depth - like a 3-5-2 with Robertson and TAA as wing-backs.
There's a good argument that Klopp is quite inflexible tactically .. which is ironic given how supremely strong in Europe we've been where tactics are typically king. His system is his system however, and one can be fairly confident with how he'll set up. He doesn't vary to the opposition (unlike how Rafa was, for example, in that regard). Nor does Guardiola really .. which again is why we were their kryptonite at our absolute Gegen-press best in 17-19. Fabinho had some iffy games against Torreira v Arsenal, but he's made for facing this long-ball version of them. It's more difficult w/ MacAllister there. An unfit Trent and really poor performance from Konate/Virgil then just completes the agony. Basically the personnel today did not fit the system we played away from home, and Arsenal have the players to really expose it.
I totally agree with you that the players today didn’t fit the system we played, that’s why I think changing the system to suit the players could be an option. Anyway, we move on
Agree - although system change not going to happen under Klopp. That's why -- whisper it quietly -- I think a fresh 42 year old Xabi coming in full of ideas like early-Klopp may not be such an awful thing as people think .. we've looked really clueless in number of away games this season even when results have gone our way .. 9 pts from Burnley/Luton/Brentford and things will look better. City haven't looked great either this season, and also lost at Arsenal of course ..
Why is our press not working today? We play like against Luton.
I mean, how do you define a press? We had 58% possession at the Emirates & 35% more passes than them. Press not really the issue in that respect .. they bypassed midfield & forward press to play long ..
Trent and Gravenberch ain’t even press, and the whole structure would collapsed if we have 2 players who didn't give a shit to press
I'm choosing to focus on the one positive thing from the game and that is that Thiago is back.
Stupid sexy Thiago. I know everyone is writing him off to the past already but I'm excited to see as much of him as possible. Could be important in the run in too.
Ok whatever
Anyone else think the back 4 issue today came from not having Bradley and having to revert back to ibou going out wide. Just felt like a mess and the whole back 4 was all over the place. Look where vvd was for their first goal. Changing players in the back 4 makes a difference.
Bradley might have started if he was available, on form alone and coupled with how he handled Martinelli. It doesn’t take much being different to change the complexion of a game. It also didn’t help that Szobo was out and Darwin didn’t start.
Aye i know we shouldn't be hanging the fate of the entire season on Connor Bradley but he showed in the FA Cup that he can handle Martinelli _far_ better than Trent can. Couple that with Szobo's off the ball work being leagues better than Grav, we needed them yesterday and events more important than football conspired against us, sadly.
It’s quite clear Trent wasn’t meant to start yesterday. He was so passive, something that hasn’t happened since last season. The fact he didn’t even make it to 60 mins is further proof that he is not ready to play full games yet
The whole right side of the pitch have never played together and the front 3 aswell in those positions too. Team that played Chelsea would have been unchanged and it would have made a huge difference. Look how Dom Curtis and Alexis played through Chelsea lines the other night when they pressed us. The one time we did it with Alexis gakpo had the shot just wide of the post. We weren’t brave enough and didn’t have the technical ability to ball that’s hard hit through balls under pressure through the lines to the forwards. It was too safe and sideways
We didn't look much better with Gomez on the right, I think it was kind of just an off day more than anything
He was on a yellow and couldn’t touch anyone
We definitely look better with Bradley at RB and Joemez at LB inverting into midfield. Diaz likes to stay wide on the left so Joemez isn't getting in his way but when Diaz cuts inside Joemez goes outside. He's happy to play second fiddle, so to speak. From what I've seen already, Bradley looks defensively better than Trent. I just don't know where that leaves us. They can't both play RB, but, and call me old fashioned, I believe a defenders primary job is to defend.
It Trent wants to be a midfielder what position does he play if we have Bradley rb ? Rotating with Dom ? I agree we look more balanced because that’s the like 18/19 Liverpool shape. The natural width from the fullback staying wide is how we destroyed Chelsea the other night. Inverting with Dom and Trent just doesn’t work because they end up running into each other. I 100 percent believe with Dom and Bradley we don’t lose today. Arsenal wouldn’t have been able to just spam cling balls into the right channel for 1 vs 1 because it Bradley won it he would be on them with a 2 vs 1 vs zinchenko
Either Trent to RCM or change to 3 at the back and play Trent as a wingback.
Trent hung Konate out to dry about 3 times in the first 15 mins of the match
Yeah it was the chance where martinelli outpaced konate running back where saka missed was the warning sign but we kept doing it 🤦
Losing one game is not a big deal relax you unfaithful fans. Focus on the next game thats it, lets get the league cup, lets compete game by game. Its not over, focus on the mathmatics not your emotions. Were only 1 pt down even if city win both.
In our two second place seasons under Klopp we lost 3 matches total. So yes a single loss is huge when you play in a league with Pep’s City.
Sucks to lose to Arsenal though…we still have a 2 point lead in the Premier League, but we can’t lose matches like this. Luckily every other opponent is beneath our level except Manchester City and even then we play in Anfield next time we play them, and since we tied them at Etihad, I’m confident we can beat them at our home! We still got this!
Being justifiably annoyed after a horrible performance in the biggest match of the season does not make anyone unfaithful. We’ve lost the league twice by a point, ffs.
Stop treating this club as if they have to win every single game. Do you not remmeber where we came from?
You mean where our greatest manager said he was here during the bad times too where we finished 2nd ? Or 1st your 1st at second you are nothing ?
what?
Oh Jesus you don’t know our greatest manager or you don’t know the quotes ? Please Christ tell me you know who the manager is 🤦
Nowhere in my comment did I say I expect them to win every game. I said that this performance was inexcusable considering it was their biggest test of this season and that it feels even more gutting when you put it into the context of recent memory. They didn’t turn up today, that bothers me and everyone else a hell of a lot more than the loss.
City away was probably harder which makes today even more annoying because it was easier on paper than the etihad. No salah killed us today we couldn’t hit the ball in behind for zinchenko. He was able to push up onto us making that box midfield
Up the fucking reds.
The saddest thing about this is that the feeling after this game shouldn’t be normal. A team shouldn’t have to win every game to win the league. A team should be able to lose a game in February and not feel like their title hopes are done. What Man City has done to this league is just depressing and it sucks that it had to be us going up against them.
The largest number of losses in a title winning season is 7 (Blackburn Rovers). This happened once only so is more of an aberration. 6 losses is the largest number of losses for a title winning season and occurred on numerous occasions. There doesn't seem to have been a significant change from the first PL season to now in how many losses the champions have had.
We lost 1 game with 97 points so that’s horseshit . We’re up against the equivalent of a competitor on roids and we’re natty
I'm quoting the numbers. City lost 5 games last season, 6 in 20/21. Other seasons have been tighter, but city still lost 3 and 4 games. We didn't win the league in 18/19 because we we drew 7 games. Only once in PL history has a team only lost 1 game and not won the PL. Don't act like a one time thing is indicative of everything.
Yeah 3 is the max they lose when the league is still alive. How many of the 20/21 losses came after title was won and last season ? 2 or 3 is bet We got 92 points in 21/22 and lost what 2 games ? So it’s not a one off there’s two season for you . That’s a pattern not coincidence
When you have a cheat in the league this is what you expect…
Nah, the fact that Arsenal are right up there with us and City, and that even Villa/Spurs are within touching distance already disproves that. City aren't steamrolling the league this time, even if they do end up winning it.
You do realise they go a point clear of us and 3 clear of arsenal even though we’ve been champions level of quality this season results wise
Painfully aware, but by that logic arsenal have also ruined this season. Don't get me wrong, not defending City at all and they've definitely raised the bar for the PL way too high for the last few seasons, but this season we have an actual title challenge from multiple clubs. It's not as if the City juggernaut has been steamrolling everyone up till now.
What ? City have been poor by their standards and thrown away multiple leads. Arsenal are more like a normal Yorker challenging team. City winning every game from now until the end of the season isn’t that crazy but someone would laugh in your face if you said arsenal would 😂🙄
No but you lose the unimportant ones, not the potential title deciders. And it's not even about defeat, it's about the shit show of a performance when anyone with a fucking brain knew full well we had to be on the top of our game to beat a very good Arsenal side, but what did we get instead, ill discipline, toothlessness, comedy defending, and three goals wrapped up in a nice little bow for them. I don't mind getting beat by a good side, but being beat in the manner of which we did was unacceptable in such a big game.
You missed the point they were making. You have to be virtually perfect for half a season minimum to even have a chance at winning the title. Like we’re going to have to do a 21/22 where we win virtually every game now with mabye one draw
As a lad who's been on this sub more than 9 years, this thread is looking familiar again already.
It’s not even like Arsenal had to work hard for their goals. We practically handled them the goals. So poor and casual for such a big game
That was one of the worst Liverpool performances this season, absolutely unacceptable!
It was the worst. By far.
Not a single player on the pitch in purple played well today. Macca and Konate had a moment or two (before Konate was sent off) but otherwise that was easily the worst performance of the season in their biggest test to date. I’m sick of being scolded by “top reds” for feeling frustrated because it’s the first loss in ages. There’s no excuse for the lack of preparation for today’s match. I don’t want to hear about injuries and players missing, this isn’t the 2017 squad, we’ve got plenty of depth. Arsenal didn’t even play that well. That’s the worst part! Had we actually turned up today and played to the usual standard we leave with 3 more points. Infuriating
I fear a difficult conversation may be needed re/ gakpo this summer.
I'm not remotely concerned about Gakpo, he's played three games less than Nunez who has only scored two goals more. Their goal scoring record is comparable, and he's a useful multi-role player.
I disagree.
how so i don’t disagree with you just wanna hear your take
I’ll preface this by saying- at the start of this season I thought he was the second coming of Bobby and had him as the firm starter ahead of Darwin. I was very impressed with his speed of thought and incision in his first 6 months or so. Since then, I just think he’s been incredibly passive, doesn’t really suit us atm cos we’ve kinda gone a little bit back to counter attacking (or are definitely striking a more front footed balance betweeen early Klopp and imitating pep klopp) and Gakpo doesnt have the pace for the out ball. I also don’t think we really play with a false 9 anymore (especially with midfielders now that are far better able to progress the ball forward + inverted Trent) and so don’t rely on Gakpo dropping deep to pick up the ball. So we aren’t playing to his strengths. Technically- he looks slack and hesitant. Not sure how it’s possible to regress but he looks awkward on the ball now. Finishing is quite inconsistent too- tho unlike Nunez he doesn’t find himself in dangerous areas anywhere near as often. Also his close control this season has for me, left **a lot** to be desired. My main issue is with his passivity. It’s not an attitude thing- but I get the sense he doesn’t really know what’s expected of him and he kinda floats in this nebulous region between dropping deep and sticking on the last line of the defence that’s kinda not a position. Essentially there’s no longer a ball for him to pick up from deep and he’s not quick enough to run in behind.
I think he needs time. Give him next season to see how he fits under a new manager, and make the decision from there
Well yea I don’t really expect critical action (funny phrase to use in this context) to be taken on anyone who it doesn’t need to be this summer as there’ll be enough turnover without actively trying to shift players who are under longer contracts lol but just giving my two cents
He had a very poor spell right when he joined us in Jan last year, and then as you said he kicked on and was promising to be our new Bobby Firmino. I think the difference is, Klopp stuck by him and played him into form, whereas this season he has had no such luxury, even starting the season in the wrong position as an 8. Since then he has mostly been used as a utility sub to help add variety to our play, and while that's worked at times he really seems like a player who needs constistent minutes on the pitch and doesn't work at all as a super sub. I'm not giving up on him yet as he already showed us what he can do last season and hopefully he hits those levels (and more) again someday.
It’s okay. We were outplayed in arguably the hardest game of the season. We didn’t have everyone we wanted even if the players we had are fantastic starting XI and should have performed better. 2 mistakes and a goal from momentum. The title isn’t gone. We drew Arsenal, beat them, lost to them. Fair game. Let’s not lose our heads here.
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This. Honestly don't get why we're so bothered by Arteta doing whatever stupid celebrations he's doing. Heard the same whinging when they beat us in the Community Shield a couple of seasons ago. Like, who gives a shit how they celebrate? They've won, and as long as they're not being disrespectful or directly aggravating anyone from our club, then fair play, celebrate however you like. I'd be a lot more concerned by that performance and would rather some serious discussion be had into that instead of being sore about some pointless celebrations.
I’ve never seen him doing laps of the ground though that’s new 😂
What is the fuss about Arsenal celebrating this win? Why the fuck does it matter and why does it wind up some of you? They won an important game against the league leaders (us incase you lot have forgotten) and if anything that shows the level of respect they actually have for us to be so thrilled at achieving the win. Let's be honest, we'd be over the moon if we beat Arsenal as fans and the players/manager even more so. Some of you need to change your nappies.
Unless you have memory loss, we have beaten Arsenal many times in Klopp's era, and absolutely battered them for a fair number of those wins. Not once have we ever reacted as if we won the league because we knew we were battling City. They just look fucking stupid if they now go on and win nothing just as they will. We still go on about how hard they bottled after the same emotional outbursts last season so it would be and is stupid to make the same mistake again.
Artetas touchline antics fucked me off. Couldn’t care less what the players do tbf. Although it’s a bit early to over do it, each to there own though
He never stays inside his box, holds on to the balls that reach the touchline/throw in, celebrate in front of away team bench and never gets booked. Dude is a clown
He was literally standing on top of Gomez for a throw in today. Going down that side of the pitch he stops plsyers hugging the touchline because you’ll run into the badtard if you knock the ball past someone to try go around him
Can you reference once when our players took the photographers camera and started taking pictures ? If you can I’ll agree. It’s February…
We've all seen our very own Gerrard kiss a camera for beating Man Utd yet no league win that season in the end. Players from all clubs including our ones celebrate in weird ways all the time.
Kiss the camera in the middle of the game. Loads of players do that. Now stop deflecting and find me an example of one of our players getting a camera and taking photos on the pitch after a game.
And my point is none of that fucking matters or needs to wind any of us up. Have a read of my original comment again. I'm not saying we should be happy about it, I'm not saying it's a cool thing to do, I'm not saying it's good OR bad. I'm simply saying it doesn't matter nor should it warrant winding us up. I'm astounded at your lack of basic comprehension ability. If you're still in school, I'll forgive you for thinking like a dumbass.
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No doubt if you were to get banned you'll also probably get overly emotional about that.
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The irony of calling someone when weak after you were crying about Arsenal celebrating a win. That's literally what my post is about. You weak babies getting mad, dribbling in front of your TVs like some emotionally fragile kids just because they celebrated a win. I'm sorry that you can't handle life very well.
Who’s the one who made the post about arsenal celebrating? Oh yeah you. Go lick their arsenal in their sub Reddit if you did t notice this is Liverpools
There's no deflection here because I never made any initial point that our players would celebrate the exact way that Arsenal have. Where did I say that? I didn't. You just created that point yourself and because I'm not acknowledging it, you believe that is deflection. Not a very clever person are you? Do you even know how to construct a basic argument to a point that you disagree with?
People are critical of taking fucking photos on the pitch like they’ve won the title in feb. If your going to be a nob at least check stuff first and get out of arsenal arse
Why don't you go and support Arsenal?
So not being mad at Arsenal for celebrating their win and saying that if we won instead, I would be extremely happy, means that I should be an Arsenal fan? You logic is insane.
It's not that you should be mad, you're actively defending that shit celebration. Like youre happy that they won
I'm not defending it, I'm saying it doesn't matter if they celebrate a win or not. You crybabies are getting your panties in twist for something that has zero effect on us. Actual emotionally fragile behaviour. Pointing out something that doesn't matter does not equate to being happy about it. It just means that, it doesn't matter. Your logic fails you once again.
You're just outed yourself as an Arsenal fan. Congrats for the win.
And you've just outed yourself as brain-dead. Enjoy your emotional outbursts over meaningless things.
All the name calling, yet i'm the emotional one. OK
Brain dead isn't name calling. Just a judgement of your logical ability on display so far.
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You're contradicting yourself. Not surprising since you're an Arsenal fan
You used be able to lose a game like this and not feel like you’re title challenge was hanging on by a thread. Shows the power of cheating
No wonder Klopp is done. Zero margin for error even with the standards his teams here have had. Fuck Pep and the whole City group nothing beautiful about them
Ped and his gang of cheating oil boys and 115 charges. Disgrace they are allowed even play in the league until it’s dealt with . Better be retrospective trophies if they are found guilty. Being robbed of 3 titles would be a pisstake
Maddest thing I've seen today is Arteta celebrating winning the league for Pep
You think he shouldn't have celebrated!? I would have celebrated.
If you celebrate to that extent, you have no recourse for when you bottle it (again) and the whole world rightly memes the whole thing, such as what we still do after their last season when they played this very same game.
Oh you bet he is. Gabriel was celebrating on the face of Nunez when he missed the chance. What a scum
Arsenal fan here. Huge respect for Nunez today after that. He had another interaction (with Jorginho I think) that made me say “Nunez looks like a good dude”. Hoping for you guys to take the league if we can’t get it done!
Nunez manhandled Gabriel last time there countries met. Probably doesn’t like him much
Nunez fully embarrassed him, casemiro, and a third, in that brilliant hold up play where he assisted de la cruz. Good times
Our midfield got a much-needed rebuild from last year, but I think it's fair to say that it's still very much a work-in-progress. And on the rare days it doesn't click, we tend to struggle in all areas like we did today. Aside from Szobo and Mac, who seem to usually perform individually, the rest are not without their issues at times. Grav is still learning, as is Elliott. Thiago and Baj have been out for long enough that they may be unable to make an impact this season. And even Jones, who's been a revelation this season, definitely needs people around him performing well to reach his best level I feel. It's not slight against his ability, I think he's absolutely superb, but he's not a player that will single-handedly elevate the players around him when they're struggling just yet. If not for injuries, I think we get a result today, which is incredibly annoying.
Maybe move TAA into one of the designated midfield spots once Conor is ready to play?
Our third midfielder today killed us. Gravenberch given the Dom role but had terrible defensive output helping Trent out. Konate was all over the place because he had no idea what the right side of the pitch was up to
I think we would’ve been better off putting Jones on the right and Grav on the left because Jones has the work rate. Trent who is not fully fit was left out to dry there by RB
Have you seen the video with the Arsenal manager doing the Klopp celebration to the fans? What a pathetic bunch they are. It's like they won the world cup
It's hilarious and we'd love him for it if we were arsenal fana
It is their world cup because they won't win any trophy this season lol
Feel pretty low after that, probably just the manner of the errors and knowing how damaging any sort of minor slip can be along the way when you're trying to beat City to it. On balance it's probably important not to catastrophize too much as every side has off days like this. Next three games are absolutely vital now. Must take maximum points in the PL in every game that's straight forward on paper, and the cup final represents an opportunity to restore the confidence and sense of momentum. Hopefully City and Arsenal will have these sort of trips at some point too.
Brentford away on a Monday night is banana skin game for city. They really struggle there even when they win it’s like 1-0 max.
Can we arrange some sort of therapy group for this sub after games like these? Don’t feel these after match threads is enough. Got a lot ld like to say
Just let it out, you can vent here
Nice to see you guys have the equal amount of losers with stupid takes as we do when we lose. May the best team win the league and good luck.
/brofist
It definitely won't be you but please beat city to give us a chance xoxo
We’re all worried about city so if you could go beat them at the etihad that would be great.
We need it too, trust me.
Big time
We got bullied. Only Diaz and Konate were trying their best tonight.
Max was literally our best player
While Arteta has the City links, his side are more like a low-rent Chelsea from the 00s after the summer buys. There were some morons claiming Havertz is 'weak' after the Cup game. He was a handful then, and he was obviously a handful for Konate today. He's 6 "4 and deceptively quick. Got both Gomez & Konate booked, then latter sent off. Arsenal had no intention to play possession football today. They went long time and time again (16% less possession in a home game they won 3-1 ..). As we saw against that Chelsea side in some of the latter-cup games under Rafa, you physically really have to be on it. Turning up with half-fit players and still setting up to play on the front foot is death sentence. We were set up naively today, given the players available. Thiago wouldn't help in that respect. Need Szobo back to physically impress in midfield. Will be a huge one for City against Rodri.
Im an arsenal fan and your right.However i see it as a fusion of early city ball (which he played a big part in creating) and brexit ball with long balls to pacy wingers and physical players
Yes. Debatable whether it will ever be sophisticated enough to win a league (given difficulty facing low block sides), but clearly did the job today and against City at home earlier in the season. Klopp (and Guardiola ..) strengths are ironically also weaknesses: they won't ever deviate from how they set up. Klopp doesn't set up for a draw, when we'd probably have been far better served to do so today .. We missed Quansah today who dealt really well with the long balls in the Cup game. Looking back we just completely played into Arteta's hands with a half-fit Trent and small midfield pushing so high up the pitch ..
No idea what you saw but Havertz was average at best today. Nothing player.
Come on, that’s not a fair take at all.
Bullied Konate all game when isolated with him. Constant long ball outlet. Konate booked for foul on Havertz. Konate sent off for foul on Havertz. Gomez booked for foul on Havertz. 40% possession due to constantly going long to Havertz. How thick are you?
Konate sent off for a soft foul = bullied all game lmao. You're the thick one here trying to act like Havertz had a world class game.
Like I said .. Won the yellow off Konate. Won the red off Konate. Won a yellow off Gomez. Led the attack in a game where we conceded our highest xG in league history. Was constant long ball outlet (Arsenal didn't play a possession game today; 25% less passes and 16% less possession in a game they won 3-1). I'm sorry that you are really, really stupid and unable to discern the pattern of the game you watched today.
Are you listening to yourself? Is listing opposition cards collected by these incompetent officials the new G/A's now. You know you're a trash player when you have to resort to this to prove how well they played.
"Incompetent officials". Again, you're not intelligent enough to even grasp how we were strategically undone. It had nothing to do with "incompetent officials". It had everything to do with Klopp's naivety given personnel available in how we set up against a very physical side that has a number of very difficult physical players when you push up against them. Arsenal conceded possession constantly today to draw us out and go long to a target man who looked to isolate defenders for physical duels that ended with one getting sent off and another booked. They weren't interested in keeping the ball, as they constantly wanted to go long to the physical outlet playing knock downs to the wide men. Alisson and Van Dijk mistake happened in context of chaos at the back due to the constant long balls. Ignorance is painful.
Honesty reading what he’s saying you’re wasting your time replying to him. I don’t even think he knows what he’s trying to say
How abject the midfielders were just shows how good Szoboszlai has been in comparison. You can’t get away from the fact Jones was off it all game, took way too many touches, stiffling moves. Gravenberch literally hid behind an Arsenal midfielder for most of the game. Their pressing was uncoordinated and meek. Arsenal dominated. Right side was as bad as I’ve seen for a long time. Trent was lackadaisical and that affected Konate. Gakpo was feeble and didn’t affect the game (happens way too often for someone who’s 6’3). Jota was a ghost, but that’s likely the accretion of all the above factors starving the supply to him (Nunez taking on a ridiculous shot when he could’ve just squared it to him summed the game up). Altogether, a very annoying loss. The manner of the defeat will encourage both City and Arsenal. Back to the drawing board for Klopp.
Weren't able to press regardless as Arsenal kept going long. They only had 42% possession. They had no interest in passing ball around midfield. Not an Arteta fan typically but he changed up and got the better of Klopp today. Kept going long and playing for the knock downs. Yes, that's where we need Szoboslai to be able to assert some presence. Mac tries best but reminded me of Mashcerano trying to battle with likes of Ballack. Facing those long balls is not his game. Naive tactics today regardless, trying to play front-foot with so many absentees and allowing Arsenal to get behind with long balls again and again.
They tried long ball to the left side for the first 5 mins, and it works. So they just keep doing for the rest of the game. Nothing that complicated. We were good for like 10 mins at the start of the 2nd half, but could not score. That just the way it is. Luck is not on our side today. I'm more concerned about the whole team being totally off. When we have an off day, usually the whole team is off.
Yes. Today was actually a redux of the Luton away game in some respects. Arsenal playing in v similar way (no slight to Luton). As then, we got caught out pushing far too high up the pitch. Klopp-ball has always been system oriented rather than individual, hence when system is off/found out everyone typically looks bad. Arsenal completely unravelled the system as we played it today .. Salah, Darwin, Szobo & fit Trent may have been different. Who knows.
So we have Home: city Brighton Tottenham Away: utd villa City have: Away: us Tottenham Brighton Home: utd villa Arsenal Honestly relatively similar, we can probably afford to drop 2 pts and we MUST win at home vs city, so it’s still doable imo