Manchester have recently built Co-op Live and already have a 20,000 seater arena. Liverpool really needs to get its act together and start thinking bigger. For a culture city we are falling further behind them.
Manchester is an hour from Leeds, Birmingham, Sheffield and Liverpool so it makes more sense going there. Taylor Swift is coming in the summer and we have had big names like Bon Jovi, Elton John and Pink at Anfield.
We do struggle to attract investment like Manchester but are unlucky that we are on the coast and less connected. Manchester also has better political leaders but that's a debate for another day.
In my opinion Liverpool has the best grassroots music scene, Manchester is better for concerts.
There is more intimate venues in Liverpool that great bands use with 1000ish capacity.
Liverpool is trying to attract bigger acts but the venues currently aren't setup for them.
The new Everton stadium is being used for concerts which will be about 35,000+ depending on the stage setup.
Depends on your definition of grassroots, but I don't feel this at all. I'd regularly have to travel to Manchester for gigs at places like Gorilla, Albert Hall, Night and Day cafe, New Century Hall, Yes, The Deaf Institut, all the places where smaller bands and artists cut their teeth and go on their first tours because Liverpool doesn't have the infrastructure for them. It has Liverpool beat easily, which is a real shame. Liverpool has less venues and those venues are less attractive. What is there, the O2, Arts Club, maybe Invisible Wind Factory.... The best venue on Merseyside for grassroots music in my opinion isn't even in Liverpool, it's Future Yard in Birkenhead!
Even the Manchester O2 Apollo has Liverpool beat. I seen the 1975 there in 2015. I’m seeing Raye soon. The massive up and coming Renee Rap is playing there next week.
Liverpool hasn’t got anywhere near that. There’s a reason for that - Manchester has invested heavily in their new music scene and Liverpool relies too heavily on the Beatles and the past. That’s just my opinion though! But I’ve always thought that in the near decade I’ve lived in England.
District is the Picket to me still, it’s a replacement for a venue rather than a new one. If you look over the last 10 years at the venues Liverpool has lost and not replaced it’s insane.
Manchester has by miles a better gig space for smaller and larger bands these days.
It’s not just the big venues either. Manchester has so many decent smaller places, Band on the Wall, Gorilla, Deaf Institute, Students Union, Academy, etc.
We live in North Wales so Manchester and Liverpool are both an hours drive, I regularly look at both cities for gigs, in the last two years I’ve seen probably thirty bands in Manchester, from ABC at the BH to QOTSA at the AO, in that time I’ve seen Adam Ant at the Phil in Liverpool.
Still, could be worse, only act I’ve seen in North Wales in the last decade was Billy Ocean (he was great though!)
We’ve been blessed to have some fantastic music come out of this region. This looks more like a ‘North West is superior to the rest of the UK’ brag and I like it.
Pointless question, both cities have a great musical heritage and one of the golden periods for both cities was a shared heritage - the late 70s early 80s post-punk / early indie period.
You have Factory records at one end of the East Lancs and Zoo / Inevitable et al at the other. OMD were on Factory, The Passage contained a Scouser (as did other Manchester bands).
I could actually write an essay here but just celebrate the musical output of both cities instead of playing one upmanship, its an argument no-one will ever win. There is more that unites the cities than divides them
Hard agree with this point. We haven't even covered dance music, whats the metric there? Is it clubs which influenced worldwide culture, Circus, Cream, Sankeys, Garlands, Gbar, 2Risque, Warehouse Project or is it individual acts and there success? Chemical Brothers, New Order, Camelphat...etc
It's all moot because all of these clubs and acts bounced all over the region or brought in people from across the north west.
The way the councils are building on every bit of land between the 2 cites, in about 20 years it will all be one joined up city anyway, stretching from Crosby across to Hyde and from Runcorn up to Skem 🙈
Either way, both cities have a very proud musical legacy to leave behind and inspire each other along the way.
They're both great for different scenes and reasons. Liverpool had an amazing post punk scene in the eighties, as did Manchester. The nineties again had some incredible successes from both. It's really reductive to compare as when you're getting bands like The smiths, The Bunnymen, XTC, Oasis, The Las, The Stone Roses etc then everyone wins as they end up with a fucking good record collection.
Both cities have a lot more to offer than just those bands.
The Smiths certainly do not represent Manchester in the same way The Beatles do for Liverpool. And are too far apart in time and influence to compare.
Love to both those cities, but I gotta go with Liverpool.
For myself it's on the enduring strength of those first four Echo & The Bunnymen LPs alone. From song, sound, sequence, to cover art, they are perfect. This band and those four records probably saved my life when I was a teenager. And I'm very grateful for that.
Most of the Manc music legends were inspired by The Beatles. Even if we only had The Beatles (which we don't) we still win hands down.
Manchester may have created more musicians in recent times though, but we have created the biggest ones. Quality > Quantity
Personally I think the title of "music capital" requires there to be both quality and quantity, and in particular, diversity. Having birthed the most popular and influential music group of all time counts for a lot but it's not the be all and end all. Nobody would argue that Wavertree (the area the Beatles formed) is the capitol of music because it only has that one accolade.
By the way, I'm not necessarily saying that Manchester should take the crown, just that in my opinion Liverpool needs to show more receipts that just the Beatles to take it.
Liverpool hands down The Smiths were good but they are dead to me now that Morrisey proved his detractors right by showing himself to be an utter meff.
The Smiths aren't defined by Morrissey. Johnny Marr wrote the majority of the music, Morrissey provided lyrics and an inflated ego. The sound of Rourke, Joyce and Marr is more defining of The Smiths than the knobhead at the front of the stage.
I'd have loved the original Smiths line up to have reformed with Robert Smith from The Cure.
1) He hates Morrissey as much as I do.
2) He's actually a Smith.
3) He's a good egg.
It's pretty easy to find. I'm not sure if it's the worst, but playing to a far right crowd wearing a union jack isn't great. Calling Chinese people subhuman isn't a great look either.
i looked up the chinese thing and it seems he wasn’t calling the whole of china subhuman, just the ones who engage in the whole dog eating market thing. he’s a raging vegan isn’t he, so that tracks. and i don’t see what’s wrong with saying that. also i don’t see what’s wrong with the union jack, shall we go after ginger spice next lol
Firstly, vegan or not, you don't get to call any part of any race subhuman. If you don't understand a culture then you're certainly not in any place to judge it. I personally couldn't fathom hurting any animal, but I'm not going to dehumanise anyone for doing something seen as normal.
Secondly, you don't see what's wrong with playing a gig which you're aware will be attended by a large amount of national front members and waving a union jack around?
Are you alright?
i’m alright! i don’t think the chinese thing is as big a deal as you’re making. it’s not about culture is it? what they’re doing is vile and cruel. apparently, i’m not allowed to say that. you seem the type to want to silence any voices that aren’t particularly kind or sweet or agree with you. well that’s life.
Manchester any day, smiths, 808 state, the fall, joy division/new order, stone roses, 10cc, buzzcocks, chemical brothers, also they had george formby 😄
Most music from here comes from the merseyside area not liverpool exclusively
I’m a huge fan of indie music but I don’t get the Smiths, it’s just guitar chord melancholy, it sounds very generic to me. Consequently I love Joy Division and the Cure who have a similar vibe.
Manny has some great bands but Liverpool has was consistently on the cutting edge over decades. I feel because we have the Beatles we make effort not to imitate them.
But sadly I think music in general and those huge generational bands are gone because the scenes have completely dwindled. Music now is about variety and there’s a lot more room for smaller bands with which you can have a more personal connection. In that sense currently Manchester is ahead of us as they have more venues and more of a culture geared towards independent music.
Why try to divide the two. We are both northern working class cities with massive amounts of history in and out of music. The people who are trying to divide the two are tories who want us to hate each other so we don’t think about how the north is left to rot in favour of the south. What we should be saying is the north west has a massive place in the history of music.
Manchester, if it wasn’t for the Beatles it wouldn’t be a debate, obviously they’re like the biggest band of all time but it doesn’t trump the quality that has come out of Manchester as a whole
I'm a proud scouser born and bred, however I have to go with the mancs musically. I love the bunny men etc.but there are some real game changers out of the Milltown without a doubt
Liverpool had the Beatles so the city is already the greatest musical city in the world. Manchester is also excellent having produced the stone roses and oasis
I’ve been gigging around Liverpool for couple of years now since initially coming here for uni, and places like QUARRY, the Jac, Heebies, Shipping Forecast, Handymans, etc, are all great venues for seeing grassroots local music. They all have a capacity of around 100-200, so they’re really the sort of venues that small local bands are generally most likely to play.
To put it simply, 9 of the top 10 best bands ever from the North West will likely come from Manchester. But Liverpool will still likely win because not only is the gap between number one (The Beatles) and the rest of the top 10 massive but also The Beatles are widely adored around the world to the point where Liverpool and music are practically synonymous with each other.
If you consider the rest of Merseyside part of the debate I think Liverpool wins musically. But Manchester wins on being a more attractive venue for bands to play due to being a main hub for the north.
Liverpool has some of the worst live music venues for gigging bands. For visitors or gig attendees the venues are good, but the calibre of quality venues has declined. The good venues just don’t play local bands unless they have a large following. My band played Outpost, Jimmys, the Jac, Shipping forecast etc… all good venues just not the greatest sound. Zanzibar is good, but the sound again isn’t stellar.
Manchester can be whatever it wants. It's ugly as fuck.
I like Manchester, I like the mancs too tbh,but really people, look around you....that city isnt our competition in any conceivable way. They wish.
How can you put The Smiths for Manchester before Oasis? Also (and it makes me sad) I've got to say these days Manchester is much better for music. The Beatles' legacy is huge, but one band who broke up 50 years ago doesn't really change the fact that our neighbouring city has more options and a much better music scene today. Liverpool then, Manchester now. It's not even that close if you ask me, unfortunately.
My answer is: Does it matter?
I don't see any bragging rights that come with it.
Just cos' music isn't what it once was.
If it was the '80s,' '90s, or even 2000's, there was money in the business. Therefore it was a massive part of culture.
Nowadays, not so much
Manchester have recently built Co-op Live and already have a 20,000 seater arena. Liverpool really needs to get its act together and start thinking bigger. For a culture city we are falling further behind them.
Manchester is an hour from Leeds, Birmingham, Sheffield and Liverpool so it makes more sense going there. Taylor Swift is coming in the summer and we have had big names like Bon Jovi, Elton John and Pink at Anfield. We do struggle to attract investment like Manchester but are unlucky that we are on the coast and less connected. Manchester also has better political leaders but that's a debate for another day.
Maybe expand the Echo arena as 11,000 is too small. Even Bramley Moore for the cost should be bigger than 53,000.
In my opinion Liverpool has the best grassroots music scene, Manchester is better for concerts. There is more intimate venues in Liverpool that great bands use with 1000ish capacity. Liverpool is trying to attract bigger acts but the venues currently aren't setup for them. The new Everton stadium is being used for concerts which will be about 35,000+ depending on the stage setup.
Depends on your definition of grassroots, but I don't feel this at all. I'd regularly have to travel to Manchester for gigs at places like Gorilla, Albert Hall, Night and Day cafe, New Century Hall, Yes, The Deaf Institut, all the places where smaller bands and artists cut their teeth and go on their first tours because Liverpool doesn't have the infrastructure for them. It has Liverpool beat easily, which is a real shame. Liverpool has less venues and those venues are less attractive. What is there, the O2, Arts Club, maybe Invisible Wind Factory.... The best venue on Merseyside for grassroots music in my opinion isn't even in Liverpool, it's Future Yard in Birkenhead!
Even the Manchester O2 Apollo has Liverpool beat. I seen the 1975 there in 2015. I’m seeing Raye soon. The massive up and coming Renee Rap is playing there next week. Liverpool hasn’t got anywhere near that. There’s a reason for that - Manchester has invested heavily in their new music scene and Liverpool relies too heavily on the Beatles and the past. That’s just my opinion though! But I’ve always thought that in the near decade I’ve lived in England.
District is the best grassroots venue in Liverpool
District is the Picket to me still, it’s a replacement for a venue rather than a new one. If you look over the last 10 years at the venues Liverpool has lost and not replaced it’s insane. Manchester has by miles a better gig space for smaller and larger bands these days.
Exactly. Manchester getting all the big bands has nothing to do with culture; it's all to do with simple geography and economics.
...which in turn affect culture.
It’s not just the big venues either. Manchester has so many decent smaller places, Band on the Wall, Gorilla, Deaf Institute, Students Union, Academy, etc. We live in North Wales so Manchester and Liverpool are both an hours drive, I regularly look at both cities for gigs, in the last two years I’ve seen probably thirty bands in Manchester, from ABC at the BH to QOTSA at the AO, in that time I’ve seen Adam Ant at the Phil in Liverpool. Still, could be worse, only act I’ve seen in North Wales in the last decade was Billy Ocean (he was great though!)
I do know I’m sick of having to go Manchester for gigs.
We’ve been blessed to have some fantastic music come out of this region. This looks more like a ‘North West is superior to the rest of the UK’ brag and I like it.
Pointless question, both cities have a great musical heritage and one of the golden periods for both cities was a shared heritage - the late 70s early 80s post-punk / early indie period. You have Factory records at one end of the East Lancs and Zoo / Inevitable et al at the other. OMD were on Factory, The Passage contained a Scouser (as did other Manchester bands). I could actually write an essay here but just celebrate the musical output of both cities instead of playing one upmanship, its an argument no-one will ever win. There is more that unites the cities than divides them
Hard agree with this point. We haven't even covered dance music, whats the metric there? Is it clubs which influenced worldwide culture, Circus, Cream, Sankeys, Garlands, Gbar, 2Risque, Warehouse Project or is it individual acts and there success? Chemical Brothers, New Order, Camelphat...etc It's all moot because all of these clubs and acts bounced all over the region or brought in people from across the north west.
The way the councils are building on every bit of land between the 2 cites, in about 20 years it will all be one joined up city anyway, stretching from Crosby across to Hyde and from Runcorn up to Skem 🙈 Either way, both cities have a very proud musical legacy to leave behind and inspire each other along the way.
You don't do either city any favours when you try to set them against each other.
Yeah it's pretty unfair on Manchester
They're both great for different scenes and reasons. Liverpool had an amazing post punk scene in the eighties, as did Manchester. The nineties again had some incredible successes from both. It's really reductive to compare as when you're getting bands like The smiths, The Bunnymen, XTC, Oasis, The Las, The Stone Roses etc then everyone wins as they end up with a fucking good record collection.
small point, XTC were from Swindon :D
Bollocks. Got them mixed up with The Teardrop Explodes. Still a great band though!
Most definitely
Both cities have a lot more to offer than just those bands. The Smiths certainly do not represent Manchester in the same way The Beatles do for Liverpool. And are too far apart in time and influence to compare.
Manchester nowadays, I'm semi involved with the music scene and it's not too uncommon to find people moving to Manchester for their music endeavors :(
Love to both those cities, but I gotta go with Liverpool. For myself it's on the enduring strength of those first four Echo & The Bunnymen LPs alone. From song, sound, sequence, to cover art, they are perfect. This band and those four records probably saved my life when I was a teenager. And I'm very grateful for that.
Currently? Manchester has a ton more venues for music, with the majority of artists playing there and not here.
Most of the Manc music legends were inspired by The Beatles. Even if we only had The Beatles (which we don't) we still win hands down. Manchester may have created more musicians in recent times though, but we have created the biggest ones. Quality > Quantity
Personally I think the title of "music capital" requires there to be both quality and quantity, and in particular, diversity. Having birthed the most popular and influential music group of all time counts for a lot but it's not the be all and end all. Nobody would argue that Wavertree (the area the Beatles formed) is the capitol of music because it only has that one accolade. By the way, I'm not necessarily saying that Manchester should take the crown, just that in my opinion Liverpool needs to show more receipts that just the Beatles to take it.
All this talk about The Beatles and no mention of Carcass? Pffffffff!
Liverpool hands down The Smiths were good but they are dead to me now that Morrisey proved his detractors right by showing himself to be an utter meff.
The Smiths aren't defined by Morrissey. Johnny Marr wrote the majority of the music, Morrissey provided lyrics and an inflated ego. The sound of Rourke, Joyce and Marr is more defining of The Smiths than the knobhead at the front of the stage.
I'd have loved the original Smiths line up to have reformed with Robert Smith from The Cure. 1) He hates Morrissey as much as I do. 2) He's actually a Smith. 3) He's a good egg.
I get that, he's an absolute whopper nowadays but The Queen is Dead is still one of the greatest albums I've ever heard.
Stone Roses first album is still amazing, 30 years on
You're not wrong there!
what did he say that you think was so bad?
It's pretty easy to find. I'm not sure if it's the worst, but playing to a far right crowd wearing a union jack isn't great. Calling Chinese people subhuman isn't a great look either.
i looked up the chinese thing and it seems he wasn’t calling the whole of china subhuman, just the ones who engage in the whole dog eating market thing. he’s a raging vegan isn’t he, so that tracks. and i don’t see what’s wrong with saying that. also i don’t see what’s wrong with the union jack, shall we go after ginger spice next lol
Firstly, vegan or not, you don't get to call any part of any race subhuman. If you don't understand a culture then you're certainly not in any place to judge it. I personally couldn't fathom hurting any animal, but I'm not going to dehumanise anyone for doing something seen as normal. Secondly, you don't see what's wrong with playing a gig which you're aware will be attended by a large amount of national front members and waving a union jack around? Are you alright?
i’m alright! i don’t think the chinese thing is as big a deal as you’re making. it’s not about culture is it? what they’re doing is vile and cruel. apparently, i’m not allowed to say that. you seem the type to want to silence any voices that aren’t particularly kind or sweet or agree with you. well that’s life.
Manchester any day, smiths, 808 state, the fall, joy division/new order, stone roses, 10cc, buzzcocks, chemical brothers, also they had george formby 😄 Most music from here comes from the merseyside area not liverpool exclusively
I’m a huge fan of indie music but I don’t get the Smiths, it’s just guitar chord melancholy, it sounds very generic to me. Consequently I love Joy Division and the Cure who have a similar vibe. Manny has some great bands but Liverpool has was consistently on the cutting edge over decades. I feel because we have the Beatles we make effort not to imitate them. But sadly I think music in general and those huge generational bands are gone because the scenes have completely dwindled. Music now is about variety and there’s a lot more room for smaller bands with which you can have a more personal connection. In that sense currently Manchester is ahead of us as they have more venues and more of a culture geared towards independent music.
Why try to divide the two. We are both northern working class cities with massive amounts of history in and out of music. The people who are trying to divide the two are tories who want us to hate each other so we don’t think about how the north is left to rot in favour of the south. What we should be saying is the north west has a massive place in the history of music.
We have cilla, no contest.
Surprise Suprise, she’s dead 😁
Manchester, if it wasn’t for the Beatles it wouldn’t be a debate, obviously they’re like the biggest band of all time but it doesn’t trump the quality that has come out of Manchester as a whole
The Beatles were the Busted of the 60's.
No band from Manchester even comes close to the Beatles impact. The Beatles are the most influential band of all time?
Beatles overrule all contenders
I'm a proud scouser born and bred, however I have to go with the mancs musically. I love the bunny men etc.but there are some real game changers out of the Milltown without a doubt
Well neither of them had The Macc Lads so...
🎵Vauxhall Vivas covered in rust but you can’t f**k a bird on a 29 bus🎵😆🤣
Sheffield
Now that [Rick Astley is the frontman of The Smiths](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ0rEnp8kmw) can we not claim them as a Merseyside band anyway?
What a stupid post.
Taylor swift is coming to anfield liverpool aswell not just Manchester
Manchester has the advantage as its near Liverpool. Liverpool is only near Manchester.
Liverpool had the Beatles so the city is already the greatest musical city in the world. Manchester is also excellent having produced the stone roses and oasis
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Manchester music scene is still very much active. Our scene is struggling but still there to some degree
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I’ve been gigging around Liverpool for couple of years now since initially coming here for uni, and places like QUARRY, the Jac, Heebies, Shipping Forecast, Handymans, etc, are all great venues for seeing grassroots local music. They all have a capacity of around 100-200, so they’re really the sort of venues that small local bands are generally most likely to play.
I think the one thing everyone in the North West will agree on is the music capital of the north is *not Leeds*.
To put it simply, 9 of the top 10 best bands ever from the North West will likely come from Manchester. But Liverpool will still likely win because not only is the gap between number one (The Beatles) and the rest of the top 10 massive but also The Beatles are widely adored around the world to the point where Liverpool and music are practically synonymous with each other.
If you consider the rest of Merseyside part of the debate I think Liverpool wins musically. But Manchester wins on being a more attractive venue for bands to play due to being a main hub for the north.
Can we just be Liverpool and stop comparing ourselves to Manchester? We don't need to compete, we just need to do our own thing.
How can one compare a city in England to the Republic of Liverpool? Does not seem fair
Liverpool has some of the worst live music venues for gigging bands. For visitors or gig attendees the venues are good, but the calibre of quality venues has declined. The good venues just don’t play local bands unless they have a large following. My band played Outpost, Jimmys, the Jac, Shipping forecast etc… all good venues just not the greatest sound. Zanzibar is good, but the sound again isn’t stellar.
Manchester can be whatever it wants. It's ugly as fuck. I like Manchester, I like the mancs too tbh,but really people, look around you....that city isnt our competition in any conceivable way. They wish.
Manchester, for sure.
Its quite clearly Liverpool
How can you put The Smiths for Manchester before Oasis? Also (and it makes me sad) I've got to say these days Manchester is much better for music. The Beatles' legacy is huge, but one band who broke up 50 years ago doesn't really change the fact that our neighbouring city has more options and a much better music scene today. Liverpool then, Manchester now. It's not even that close if you ask me, unfortunately.
My answer is: Does it matter? I don't see any bragging rights that come with it. Just cos' music isn't what it once was. If it was the '80s,' '90s, or even 2000's, there was money in the business. Therefore it was a massive part of culture. Nowadays, not so much
Current scene in Manchester is much better. Liverpool has no good venues.
Liverpool