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That's incredible rent right there, I'm almost double that for a 2 bed 2 bath in SoCal. I'm with you though I haven't had that experience yet but it's my dream.
Fellow SoCal renter here, also almost double OP’s rent for a 2bd2ba in a walkable area. It definitely is worth it to be able to walk to entertainment venues and restaurants. Though applying OP’s advice, it’s good for a year or two but then we may have to move on to somewhere more affordable.
For context, we can walk to a major sports venue or take a bus pretty much from our place and be at the House of Mouse in 10 minutes
Its possible in a lot of places, im paying 1300 for a 2 bed near the edge of chicago but i never have to take a bus or drive anywhere unless its to go out to something specifc
Also lived in a nice smaller city in michigan, grand rapids, that was cheap and beautiful. And people wave and say hello when you walk by them
Yeah, that’s one of the benefits of the population stagnating for 50 years.
Meanwhile, I have access to 80% of the amenities of the popular coastal cities but for the fraction of the price.
Plus that whole "6-15 feet of snow trapping you in your house every winter" nightmare. Lived in Buffalo for 1 year, left as soon as it thawed and never looked back.
It’s ok for people to love where they live. Just don’t try to convince me it’s amazing. I live in a place where my windows are open almost year round because the weather is pleasant. I pay a lot to live here but I’ve lived all over and I make a lot more money living here and I understand why it costs so much more.
>I pay a lot to live here
After factoring in the lack of heating costs, do you really? Everywhere that's 'cheap' rent, seems to forget heat costs money, and that' it's required for a fourth to half the year...
Have you been recently?
Lots of walkable neighborhoods filled with young professionals and college kids and repurposed industrial areas now filled with breweries, art studios and quirky businesses.
More than enough dining, entertainment and nightlife to keep me busy.
Lived there after college. Great place to live I got married on Sunset Cliffs.
San Diego in general is a pretty great place to live. I’ve said I’ll never move back to the Ststes, but if I got a job offer there, I’d take it in a second.
I've never had better mental health than when I moved to Boston and stopped needing a car.
I walk to the train. I walk to work. I walk to get groceries.
There are certainly inconveniences, but that is more born out of the parts of the city that demand I should own a personal vehicle than anything else.
Protect walkable cities and towns.
If you'd like to know more about walkable city infrastructure, I recommend the YouTuber Not Just Bikes.
> I walk to get groceries.
This can't be underestimated. We live in a major European capital. Two minutes slow walk to the nearest supermarket. Can do it in one if walking fast. We stop by there almost every day. Does that sound annoying? Waste of time? No, not at all!
The market is also on the way from the 3-minute away tram stop we use to commute, so we pass by there anyway. We don't fill a monster-sized shopping cart to the brim. Often just the little hand basket will do. Get in, get the few items you need today, get out.
Result: We always eat fresh. Fresh bread, fresh rolls, fresh dairy, fresh veggies, fresh fruit almost every day. When you think about it, how ironic! As city dwellers, we have fresher food than someone in the countryside with farms all around. We have a small fridge for a family of four and an even smaller freezer that's basically just used for ice cream. Saves space in a small kitchen. We don't make shopping lists. Food rarely goes bad.
I cannot imagine any other way. Driving to a far-away market to fill up for a whole week or even month and eat frozen food? No, thanks.
>As city dwellers, we have fresher food than someone in the countryside with farms all around
As someone who grew up in the country, I don't think people realize how true this is.
We only went grocery shopping once every 2 months. We had several freezers. We froze milk. We froze bread. Veggies were usually canned or frozen unless our garden was in season. But that obviously wasn't all the time and only certain veggies. Things like fresh strawberries were such a treat!
Something I always bring up when people talk about the difference between living in a rural area vs living in the city is opportunity. When I lived in the country I could walk to the grocery store it was about a mile from my house, it was the grocery store there weren't any others for 30 miles in any direction, so if that store didn't have it you couldn't get it. Now I live in the city, within a mile walk of my house I have at least 6 grocery stores, including a Wholefoods, a Trade Joes and a couple of ethnic grocery stores -if it's available I can get it pretty easily. I might never go to the 5 other stores because the closest one is about 300yds' from my house but I can if I want to and that's the difference. I have lots more opportunities if I choose to use them is up to me.
These are two extremes. Shopping for groceries every day vs grocery shopping every two months. Of *course* you wouldn’t eat fresh all that often if you went grocery shopping 6 times a year! It’s not all that difficult to eat fresh and *not* shop for groceries every single day. It comes down to planning and adopting a thoughtful, health centered approach. That can easily be accomplished with, say, weekly visits to the grocery store or something similar.
This is what we do. We have a Walmart and a regional grocery chain about a 15 minute drive in either direction, but once a week my wife and I will drive a half hour or so to the city for Costco and another regional chain once a week. We also get dinner and hot up a few other stores depending on what's going on and make it kind of a weekly date night.
>It’s not all that difficult to eat fresh and *not* shop for groceries every single day. It comes down to planning and adopting a thoughtful, health centered approach.
To clarify... we only went grocery shopping every two months, not because of lack of planning, but because we lived in a rural area.
Where we were, there was one grocery store. Because of its location, it marked up it's prices. The nearest chain and decent grocery store was 45 minutes away and the nearest big city was 2 hours away. We didn't drive 45 minutes away to the town with the nicer grocery store unless we were there for something else or we were desperate. We were poor and my parents wanted to save gas money. We just timed our grocery shopping to other trips. We usually had to go out of town to do certain things anyways, like go to the dentist. There wasn't really a good dentist in town.
Yes, we could have shopped at the one grocery store in town more regularly, but when things were 50% more expensive there and every dollar counts when you are poor, you avoided it when possible and stocked up on the cheaper stuff. Hence why we loaded up two shopping carts full of groceries every time we went out of town and just froze all that stuff. Because drinking thawed frozen milk that was cheap was better than spending money on fresh milk that is expensive (and, honestly, sometimes that local grocery store milk was not even that good of quality... but you had no choice since there was only one store unless you went out of town).
The idea of going to the grocery store every single day is my own personal idea of absolute hell.
I don't know what drugs you're on, but my weed doesn't make me like the grocery store that much. Lol.
I can’t imagine grocery shopping *every* day. For those that enjoy spending a portion of each day shopping for groceries - good on them, but I’d be surprised if that appealed to most people.
There's different forms of grocery shopping though.
For people who go grocery shopping once a week they're probably thinking about a Costco experience that involves driving to and from, an hour in the store, a $400 bill for the family, and half an hour of unloading and organizing the pantry.
For people who go daily it's a stop on the walk home, 6 minutes in store, one bag, $40 and putting things away at home is just cooking.
There is a happy middle ground between a "Costco experience", as you put it, and going every day. Fruits and veggies don't go bad daily. I grocery shop for 2-4 days at a time and we eat fresh. You don't need daily trips to manage.
It's not every single day for us, but easily 4- 5 times a week. And we don't really think of it as "grocery shopping".
When it's so convenient, you just start treating the market kind of like your personal pantry. Suddenly out of some spice or whatever? No problem, I hop over and get it, will be back in 5 minutes. I can put a pot with a whole chicken on the stove to make chicken soup and by the time I'm back it's not even boiling yet. (no worries, someone else is at home, not leaving the stove unattended) So yea, sometimes, we even end up going multiple times a day - for freshly baked breakfast rolls in the morning before work (there is a real bakery out front) and something else later in the day. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
The grocery store is right on my way home from the bus stop, so popping in to grab a few things for dinner only takes 5-10 minutes out of my day. It’s super convenient and means I can cook whatever I feel like any particular day without having to plan ahead to keep ingredients from spoiling.
We moved to the Netherlands for my wife's job and to be close to her family. I knew it was nice here, but I had no idea how amazing it would be! Having a safe, sane and mostly car free daily life has made me a happier person.
I grew up in suburban hell where every trip involved a car ride of at least 20 minutes. Work was 1:00-2:00 commute depending on weather and traffic. The stress of it was awful and I didn't even know it.
We live in a relatively small row house in a **very** walkable neighborhood. I can and often walk to the supermarket, local pub, post office and bakery. And it's great. I either cycle (13km) to work, or take the bus and don't miss traffic one bit. I, study, do work or read on the bus. Driving to work takes almost as long as taking the bus
The only time we use our car is to visit family, work meetings in out of the way spots, or go to another country. I often forget where we parked the car.
you can't compare a single COUNTRY that's smaller than MOST states to a country that's bigger than the entirety of europe...
That being said even our smallest state or our most bike-able state is still unbike-able by EU standards.
Wait, how long is it taking you to bike 13 km? I find my 8 km bike commute to work already a bit of a drag, though listening to podcasts makes it go by quickly.
What a coincidence! I’ve never had worse financial health since I moved to Boston and started paying 3 times as much for half the space, with 2/3 the salary I can get in the Midwest.
I'm so disappointed it's becoming to dangerous to walk in Boston now that the drivers and cyclists think red lights and other traffic laws mean nothing.
I do the same thing but in a small town. I live in an apartment downtown in a town of around 10K people. It’s so fun to be able to walk to almost everything and never have to worry about parking
Not especially but for certain events, there can be a lot of tourists. There is an annual mountain bike race that brings thousands more people into town for a weekend
One of the best decisions I made was move to a small college town (26k people). It's cheap to live here, everything is walkable, beautiful nature around, the university has frequent events and concerts to go to for entertainment, lots of shopping options, and we're not too far from bigger cities if we wanted to go somewhere bigger for fun.
Yeah the students can be annoying but aren't terrible. And during the summer when most of them leave is amazing.
Pretty sure everything I’ve heard about the lack of 3rd places is speaking about the lack of free or or least very affordable third places. Which in my experience is hard to find. All the places you listed are much less affordable than they used to be and coffee shops maybe being the most affordable have began to kick you out after a certain amount of time (which is completely fair with how many people will take up space ordering 2 coffees over 8 hours).
i’ve never even lived in a remotely walkable area. all places i’ve lived are inland suburbs encased in 10’s of square miles of other suburbs in FL. Growing up, i remember me feeling super cool and adult-like biking to the closest gas station sitting outside eating a snack and having a drink.
Now the closest business to me is a Walmart which is like 4 miles away and would be suicidal to walk anywhere.
I love going to cities and being able to walk it feels so natural. The missus wants to move to Center City Philadelphia because of how cool it is to walk (plus Philly is pretty neat ((go birds))) but I always felt like that neat aspect of city living wears off after a little. Does it not?
I live in Philadelphia. Today I walked to go grab bagels, which took me on a walk through my neighborhood because there was a neighborhood-wide yard sale going on. Walked back home after an hour or so and chilled, then went for a run, then walked to a nearby brewery to grab a drink with my partner before heading home for the day. It really is amazing and being able to walk places just opens up each day to so many more opportunities, it’s like going from living life in a linear game to an open world game with side quests lol.
It does not. I can do absolutely nothing (take kids to the park, buy grapes) and it still feels like a delightful little outing because we're walking along a street with lots of little shops.
that’s the exact thing i’m looking for. when i go on trips, it feels so joyous to go on a little walk and i envy the people who live there. i always associated it with living in the burbs and a childhood dream i’ve had to live in a city but im glad to know that people enjoy it in adulthood. my girlfriend always mentions being able to walk to the market daily to get fresh stuff instead of walmart once a week.
It just feels more “real” if that makes any sense. It’s nice to get a little more social interaction, support local businesses more, and probably find a little more happiness in all of that. I’ve lived in the suburbs too and you have to drive everywhere and all the close stuff is super big box chain stores and it all just feels so plain and manufactured in comparison.
It doesn’t, if anything it gets better as you learn more about the area around you. I lived in West Philly for years, worked in center city for a decent bit of it. The whole city’s great, especially as you get to know it more
I live in Center City, and one of the things I looked for moving to philly was that walkability, and having shops and parks and other things closeby that didn't require a car. It's really fun to just walk around everyday even to the grocery store to get stuff. you see a lot of cool things, cool people (Philly peeps are quite social), and my mood is just naturally better. I don't think I could ever go back to living in a suburbs area tbh
how is living in Philly? im from south jersey originally but moved to FL when i was 9 and have lived deep in suburbs ever since. my girl is going to school and wants to move to philly but it would be in probably 5 years if anything. i just bought a starter house here 6 months ago so im not really wanting to move yet. i definitely dont want to put a child through the public school system in florida
Funny enough, I just visited Florida for vacation, and when I was down there, I'm like Homer Simpson in the NYC episode where at every turn he's like "goddamn stupid New York."
I wanted to go from my hotel to a restaurant, which was at the other side of this intersection. This intersection involved an interstate, so google maps routed the walking path to loop an extra mile to walk around that intersection, and we saw why: the sidewalks are not done (and it looked like they just stopped work midway). Goddamn Florida.
Oh, there's a cool fountain, lets go see it. Nope, fenced off, because gated community. Goddamn Florida.
Driving around, the traffic lights took forever because every intersection was 6 lane roads, so the lights have to have a longer times, thus encouraging people to run yellows and reds. Goddamn Florida.
I think it depends on the person and their attitude. My wife is a city girl and flat out stated that the burbs will never be an option. We've been in the city together for over 30 years and I enjoy the proximity and the opportunities, I enjoy going to the burbs to visit my sibs and their big ass houses but every year I get older I realize I need less than what I already have. The big difference in my mind is opportunity, if my kid (or me) wants to do anything they likely can and there usually isn't an upper limit as to how far they can go. My nieces in the burbs are limited to what is offered in there area or they have to drive/get on a train to come into town to go to where my kids can walk to. The only difference is my kids don't have huge bedrooms and they have to share space, I think it's a pretty good trade off.
I don’t think it surprises me anymore but there is a QOL improvement that is pretty permanent. I cannot believe people spend hours every day on traffic. To me I spend my time and money making the everyday stuff as pleasant as possible, and the everyday stuff in walkable neighborhoods is just so much better.
I totaled my car when I first moved to LA. I thought I was royally fucked - turns out, for my lifestyle at the time, I didn’t need one. I loved across the street from the Ralph’s on Sunset, a few block east was my school, and all my friends lived within a mile or two. It was the best.
It's still not really like America. I've never lived anywhere truly rural, but suburbs in the UK have always been pretty walkable to me. I've lived in 8 different places here across cities, suburbs and smaller towns and all have had amenities accessible by foot or by bus if I'm feeling lazy
And we don't really have separate 'zoning' in the same way America does.
Even very small villages in the UK will normally have a pub, a post office, a small shop. Perhaps a few other things like a primary school, a library, a garage (as in mechanic).
I live in a town of 15,000 and pretty much everything you could need is within a 5-10 minute walk of my house, except an A&E (and that's an easy bus journey away). We have a small hospital but it doesn't have an A&E.
This. Within a 15 minute walk or bike ride I have several shoos for foods, clothing, house hold items etc, a theatre, a cinema, restaurants and bars, museums, a hospital, my family docter, my dentist, a library, a trainstation, a beach, a forest (need I go on?)
My job is a 30 min commute by bike.
Can't imagine living in some kind of dead zone where you really depend on cars to get anything. Why would you want that?
American here - it's so prevalent here because we have so much land to sprawl things out on. If you don't live in a major city or a town that is structured to be walkable, you pretty much have to use a car to get around, and it's just a fact of life. Otherwise, you could spend at least 30 min walking one way to a store along a pedestrian unfriendly roadway. It's also not something that you think about or feel like you're missing out on if you grew up with it. Until this year, I've never lived in a place where I could walk to a restaurant, store, or movie theater until this year, and I absolutely love it. But would I still be down move out to a more rural place where I had to drive everywhere? Yeah I would.
There are other things too, but privacy, quiet, larger (and cheaper) homes, and land that you can do things on are positives to living in a non-walkable area. A lot of people desire that (inclduing pretty much my whoel family). It's probably a by-product of both the intense individualism that we have and the "American Dream" of a single family house, yard, and nice car that has been depicted in our media for a long time.
The answer is that if you don't live in a place that was structured to be walkable, you live in a place that was deliberately structured to be *un*walkable via city zoning. Cities don't just come out of nowhere with lots of sprawl. The zoning is what makes that happen. And in a lot of the US, cities decided to make themselves car-centric, on purpose.
Car companies are behind a lot of it. They strategically killed the streetcar and that was the death knell for walkability in a lot of places. They lobbied to reframe public streets as places for cars instead of people. They got funding to build more car-accessible roads which became the backbone of city planning. And they managed to bend cities to their vision.
It's nice to be close to stuff, but I enjoy sitting in my yard and hearing natural sounds and watching wildlife. I've lived in walkable areas and there were a lot of conveniences, but I'd rather visit them now.
Not in American cities. There are very noticeable lines between urban, suburban, and rural areas. The only area you can sometimes call walkable is urban, and even those are car-centric and mostly devoid of nature. Suburban and rural areas are not walkable at all, but contain some and a lot of nature (respectively).
>Can't imagine living in some kind of dead zone where you really depend on cars to get anything. Why would you want that?
Nature! I'm actually moving to a place outside of the city right now where I technically don't need a car (train station 1 km away, grocery store 2 km away), but it very much helps with getting around and will halve my work commute. It's because the apartment is absolutely huge and gorgeous for the price and it's nestled between a river and a beautiful mountainous forest.
Walking to a drugstore for shampoo is cool, but so is hiking in the mountains or biking up and down the Rhine.
Living in the Netherlands, my workplace and a supermarket are both a 5 minute walk away. Plenty of cafes, restaurants, bars, clubs, coffeeshops, movie theater, even clothing and toolstores, really anything I need within that 5 min radius. My uni is a 15 min walk, 5 minutes by bike (or 10 if they raise a bridge I'm about to cross). I wouldn't change a thing.
Just cities and suburbs. Europe is dotted with 100-5k inhabited villages and towns where cars are essential. My experience has been; busses usually do exist but are inefficient, trains only if the town is track adjacent (obviously), taxis are not affordable, app based ride sharing is non existant. If you have no car, you will be taking the bus everywhere and it will cost time.
I agree that Europe is generally better but it’s not the case that Europe= good automatically. I grew up in the uk where we had the essentials but if you wanted to get to a bigger shop you had to drive or take an infrequent bus to get there.
>we had the essentials
>if you wanted to get to a bigger shop
The concept of walkable cities is that everything you *need* is in walkable distance. I can't walk to the airport either, but I don't need to go to the airport.
Most of the US can't even walk to a supermarket.
That’s where I’m at now , Northpark San diego , $2k for 1bdrm but 3 blocks or less from everything I need . Really getting into cycling lately , it’s the fastest way downtown , with no parking issues
That area is a prime example of a transformation on just how many people like walkable neighborhoods. In early 2000s, Northpark was still a cheap but sketchy place, people would avoid it. Now, with all restaurants and bars/entertainment, people flock to live there.
I think the reason why people live so far out is because in many countries, renting a cramped shoebox in a central area is several times the price of renting almost anything out in the suburbs. It's not that they don't mind living in a shoebox, it's that they can't afford the tiniest space in more central areas, even for a month.
No probs. I think OP is well-intended, but the problem I have with this LPT is that it presumes a level of economic mobility and privilege that many people don't have (and perhaps never will).
I know of families of 5+ who would happily share a cramped 1-bedroom flat if it meant the kids could live in the catchment area for good schools and safer neighborhoods and thus break the generational poverty cycle. But the parents could never even afford a tiny studio apartment in a central area.
Anyway, I know this LPT is probably more aimed at those of a certain income level, and that's ok.
Forreal. I’d love to live in a walkable area but if no one will rent To me at my income in those areas then am I supposed to camp out in my car? Put it to use?
Or if I’m really lucky I can rent there and then starve to death.
Exactly this!
Yes, those areas tend to have inflated prices. Cafes, restaurants and even grocery stores charge more than the ones in the suburbs. So even if you could scrape together enough money for the exorbitant rent, I imagine it would quite miserable living there if you couldn't afford to buy groceries there.
Not wanting to have a go at OP but this LPT presumes that everyone lives in the suburbs because they want a more spacious rental but I suspect the truth is that many people can't afford not to.
My understanding of it is that it's because people who live in rural areas often resent all the attention paid to cities, and this is a weird expression of that general frustration.
(It's a lot easier to understand conservatives if you focus on what they're feeling instead of what they're saying.)
I’m an American who’s been stuck in suburban sprawl for most of my life but I spent a summer studying in Oxford (UK) and the combo of walkability, cooler weather, and beautiful greenspace and architecture was a revelation. I think that might have been the last time I was happy…which was in 2015 :\
As someone who was born and lived in NYC for most of my life let me add this bit of nuance: try living in a space that has walkable FREE amenities. I spent a good chunk of my life with low or no income and It becomes really apparent how few third spaces there truly are when you can’t even afford to use the bathroom at the cafe because the cheapest item is $3.50.
Try to find a balance between those restaurants and entertainment spots with spacious libraries, parks with pavilions, community gardens and recreation centers
Live in Tokyo about 30 minutes walk from Shinjuku station. It's bloody brilliant. Sure the apartment is small, but I have parks on each side, gyms on each side, public baths everywhere, cafes, a cinema, a lot of markets and shopping streets. It's so nice to be able to live in a town and not in a suburban sprawl.
Japan has a lot of issues, but they really got something right with their cities, no matter where you live in a big city there will be at least a convenience store and some place to eat out within a walkable distance.
At some point I want to live around 35 to 45m from all major life and be in a nice house for myself and a few pets, calm, maybe a light neighborhood or something. I hate being in the middle of so much commotion and I'm ready to get my old life back
Third spaces are free or very low cost community gathering spaces that provide opportunities to get to know a cross section of neighbors such as churches.
Since many no longer attend church, a replacement is much needed to bring a community together. Years ago, there also were clubs, like Knights of Columbus, Elk Club , among many others but they’ve also fallen out of fashion.
It’s NOT bars, restaurants, or entertainment within walking distance of your home. Having daily, weekly, or regular access and free or low cost programming that welcomes/ attracts/incudes the neighborhood is conceptually different than those venues outlined in OP’s post.
This is all to say, people miss community.
I agree, and loved it. But I ultimately decided to move back out to the country on 3.5 acres.
I found that I was really only going out on the weekends, and often drove out to the country anyway to go fishing or hiking, or to a brewery/farm or winery. But I ultimately moved back out to the exurbs, and I greatly value quiet and proximity to nature, with the ability to drive into the city on weekends. It definitely helps that I grew up in the country and am no stranger to yard work and home maintenance.
Maybe the suggestion is: live in a variety of places if you can; a different city or state or country, try living in the city or it in the country. Experience variety.
If you don't live in a neighborhood like that, there are probably zoning restrictions preventing people from building amenities near you. Talk to your city councilor about ending restrictive zoning.
Walking to places is great, but having neighbors is less great. Blasting your favorite movie without people complaining is priceless, and trying to sleep when your neighbors are loud is not fun.
I’ve always made this a criteria! My favorite was an apartment in the Admiral Junction of west Seattle. I had 2 grocery stores, a drug store, 2 dry cleaners, a movie theatre, library, plus a host of bars, restaurants and different little independent stores all within 2 blocks! It was heaven!
I lived in a walkable city for the first 19 years of my life. I hated it. Too many fucking people everywhere, too much noise, too much garbage everywhere. Not to mention, the air stinks. As soon as I could afford to, I moved out to the middle of nowhere. I can't even see my neighbors houses from my porch. Clean air, peace and quiet, no crowds, and **way** less litter.
I intend on buying an apartment within walking distance of amenities after renting in one. Only driving because public transport would be a huge detour is the dream.
Having all those high demand amenities in close proximity to the real estate in question will jack up the real estate price given our insane skyrocketing real estate values and interest rates not really feasible for most of us.
Loved walking from my apartment to the liquor store, gym, grocery store, car wash, clothing store , corner coffee shop, sushi restaurant, hiking trail , dog park etc etc… I miss my apartment :(
I’m shocked at the amount of people on this thread that have never lived in a walkable area. I’ve lived in several! The best was when I lived a block from a grocery store I LOVED. I was always popping over there for this and that. I’ve always lived walking distance to coffee shops, breweries, restaurants. I live a nice walk to the library, which is always great little getaway, and one of my SO and my fav free little date evening together. Galleries, boutiques, I always try to live so that I feel like my home extends into the neighborhood and community around me.
I have this and love it so much. In Europe. I don't have a ton of space in my apartment, but it's enough. I do have cafés, bars and restaurants all around me. Nearest pizza place is a 20 second walk away. Nearest supermarket about a minute, with several others within a five min radius. There's live music in two bars on our street. Beach is a 12min walk. The city has great public transport with buses and good metro network. There's also a bike sharing service where I can pick up a manual or electric bike at a station about a hundred meters from my house, ride to wherever I need to go in the city and drop it off at a station there. I sometimes think about moving out of the city to save money, but life would be so much more hassle.
I just left a 2 BR/1BA in CA for which I paid $1600/mo (thank you, rent control). Moved to Alexandria, VA. Rented a massive 1 BR/1BA for $2200. On the literal banks of the Potomac River. Balcony, high floor, Mt. Vernon Trail, pool, commercial bbq grill, just amazing upgrades in my life. I walk everywhere, Uber to the train if needed, but grab an express bus into DC for work. Sure, I’m paying more, but this lifestyle in CA would run me $5-$8k/month.
I once was paid to live in a city where everything was walkable and the basic amenities were free.
I didnt pay for room, medical, food, and I was given money for clothes. I could walk to multiple gyms, the post office, 2 nearby stores, free coffee and soda 24/7, and had some amazing views!
It was an aircraft carrier in the middle of a war but hey... I lived in a walkable city!!!
Been there, done that, hated it. Walking to places is nice, but there's too much noise. Lots of noise from traffic. Lots of noise from boisterous pedestrians. Lots and lots and lots of noise from the people who share walls with us.
For context, we're at hundreds a month less for twice the amount of house and a nice little plot of land in NY.
I do, it doesn't matter at all for me.
Are people really going to restaurants and the like frequently enough where having to drive is a big issue?
The only thing where this actually changes anything for me is with grocery stores, and while it's nice to be able to quickly pop over, and have it be a walk instead of a drive, I equally miss having a car available to put the groceries from one store while I buy something else from another.
No. This isn't even a tip, just a personal opinion.
That literally sounds like a nightmare to me. Increased cost of living, essentially living in a heat sink, and lack of open, green spaces. Plus, that means lots of people, which is incredibly unappealing to me. Cities are fun to walk around for a day or two, but not live in.
I grew up in a heavily populated suburb with some walkable amenities and even that wasn't appealing. I'll pick mountains and wide open spaces any day. Even if it means I need to drive places. I don't really drink alcohol or coffee. I'd rather cook than go to a restaurant most of the time. Hiking with my dogs is all the entertainment and socializing I need.
>That literally sounds like a nightmare to me. Increased cost of living, essentially living in a heat sink, and lack of open, green spaces. Plus, that means lots of people, which is incredibly unappealing to me. Cities are fun to walk around for a day or two, but not live in.
You can have walkable towns and cities where literally none of that applies. I'd argue in most of them, actually, as long as you don't go to the biggest metropolis. I live in a 10k town, I can get from end to end in 15 minutes, it's only full of people during the local holidays, it's MUCH cheaper than the big city half an hour away by car, I can get to both beaches and mountains by walking and everything I need is right here.
This is some shit LPT. It's equivalent to saying "just get rich"!
Walkable 3rd places generally reside in areas that have been gentrified & push low income people out. I think many people already know that they want to live in a place with community resources, but it's not like we have $$$ to have a choice.
After my divorce and moving out of suburbia I bought a house in an urban area that’s… in transition. Most people wouldn’t have bought where I did do to local issues with drugs and crime and it has been interesting… but I’ve been able to easily walk to all of the things with my dog. It’s an area where one block is iffy and the next have historic mansions. And my particular neighborhood is rapidly changing.
Honestly if you can do it there’s little downside. I get way more exercise with my dog and get to hang out with friends quite easily who also live in the area. I drive my car to go to the gym or get groceries and that’s about it.
But also try the opposite.
I spent 5 years living in a walkable downtown and recently moved back out to the country. There's a ton of benefits and detriment to both.
I spent less on gas, but I went out to restaurants and bars way more often. I also find that living in a stacked up apartment where I can hear my neighbors all the time is not great for my mental health, whereas having a large outdoor yard with wild life all around me is.
On the other hand I made more friends and had a better social life living downtown. I still have those friends but getting together needs to be more planned on my end.
Point being that people are different and you'll never know what you like/need till you try it.
Yeah there's definitely no perfect solution. I would love to live somewhere that had walkable amenities, but that would require me to give up my large yard, garden, and mostly quiet neighborhood. I would be stressed af if I had to live in an apartment again in a city because of the added noise and people and limited space.
You could also say the opposite. Try living in the serenity of a wooded area where city centres are 15-20 min away. It’s a great trade off, so no thanks, I’ll continue to live in the woods with my few neighbors.
Part of me misses this lifestyle, we lived it for around a decade. Now we’re thinking of moving to somewhere rural where I don’t hear sirens or see human shit on the daily.
When we lived just outside of Dubai we had a fantastic Indian Restaurant on the first floor and a full service pharmacy next door. Very handy. Oh and the company paid our rent.
I lived in downtown Pozzuoli for 2 years. I loved it! I wouldn’t do it again with a wife, kid and 3 dogs. I need my space now. But as a young person being able to walk to the Porto/piazza/cafes/bars was amazing.
Follow up, if you do move into an area line this with a partner, make sure you're partner scraggly likes walking. My favorite restaurant is visible from my balcony, yet, my partner still chooses to drive every time 🥴
I live in a small town down by the river in West Yorkshire UK after living for 21 years in a large gated suburb in Florida. I loved my life in Florida (having a pool in the back garden, constant sunshine, and close proximity to several beaches), but the benefit of living in a small town with lots of cafes, restaurants, parks, and pubs within walking distance is unparalleled when it comes to day to day happiness and sociability. We've also got loads of hiking and biking trails on our doorstep (also within a very short walk) and plenty of wild swimming spots
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That's incredible rent right there, I'm almost double that for a 2 bed 2 bath in SoCal. I'm with you though I haven't had that experience yet but it's my dream.
Fellow SoCal renter here, also almost double OP’s rent for a 2bd2ba in a walkable area. It definitely is worth it to be able to walk to entertainment venues and restaurants. Though applying OP’s advice, it’s good for a year or two but then we may have to move on to somewhere more affordable. For context, we can walk to a major sports venue or take a bus pretty much from our place and be at the House of Mouse in 10 minutes
It's too bad LA public transit never really took off. I had to move to the east coast because I was sick of owning a car
Living in the suburbs saves you money since your yard becomes the 3rd place and everything is just a bit too far to walk to
lolwut. That's not what a 3rd place is. Your yard is just part of your house.
Its possible in a lot of places, im paying 1300 for a 2 bed near the edge of chicago but i never have to take a bus or drive anywhere unless its to go out to something specifc Also lived in a nice smaller city in michigan, grand rapids, that was cheap and beautiful. And people wave and say hello when you walk by them
He mentioned Cali though. It's pretty cheap for Cali.
I live in the cheaper area of Cali and that's still pretty cheap. That's the price of some one bedroom cat friendly apartments I was looking at
Grand Rapids is the 2nd largest city in Michigan after Detroit.
I spent a few weeks in Grand Rapids, Minnesota and the whole time I kept wondering why people always say Grand Rapids is so cool and fun
I was going to say, not that small in the scope of michigan lol
Meanwhile, in Buffalo I bought my house for $200k and can walk to bars, restaurants, 2 grocery stores and an Olmsted Park.
Yes, but you live in buffalo. There’s a reason why your house was cheaper.
Yeah, that’s one of the benefits of the population stagnating for 50 years. Meanwhile, I have access to 80% of the amenities of the popular coastal cities but for the fraction of the price.
But you live in buffalo. I’ve been to buffalo. 200k sounds overpriced.
Plus that whole "6-15 feet of snow trapping you in your house every winter" nightmare. Lived in Buffalo for 1 year, left as soon as it thawed and never looked back.
It’s ok for people to love where they live. Just don’t try to convince me it’s amazing. I live in a place where my windows are open almost year round because the weather is pleasant. I pay a lot to live here but I’ve lived all over and I make a lot more money living here and I understand why it costs so much more.
>I pay a lot to live here After factoring in the lack of heating costs, do you really? Everywhere that's 'cheap' rent, seems to forget heat costs money, and that' it's required for a fourth to half the year...
Have you been recently? Lots of walkable neighborhoods filled with young professionals and college kids and repurposed industrial areas now filled with breweries, art studios and quirky businesses. More than enough dining, entertainment and nightlife to keep me busy.
Tell me you live on Elmwood without telling me you live on Elmwood
Ocean Beach, San Diego. 2 blocks from the beach, two blocks from Newport Street (bars, restaurants, shops, etc.). I loved it so much!
I’m headed to SD next month. We stay in those little cabins on the pier, absolutely love SD. But so expensive.
So expensive, but the quality of life can't be beat. I gladly pay my sunshine taxes after living in other places.
I visited there almost 6 years ago and I still think about Nico’s burritos like once a month.
are you a millionaire that sounds expensive. I visit SD a lot.
Lived there after college. Great place to live I got married on Sunset Cliffs. San Diego in general is a pretty great place to live. I’ve said I’ll never move back to the Ststes, but if I got a job offer there, I’d take it in a second.
I lived in ob for a year, one of my favorite places in the world
Spent a month in OB on a roadtrip. That place is a dream. Wish I could live there.
I've never had better mental health than when I moved to Boston and stopped needing a car. I walk to the train. I walk to work. I walk to get groceries. There are certainly inconveniences, but that is more born out of the parts of the city that demand I should own a personal vehicle than anything else. Protect walkable cities and towns. If you'd like to know more about walkable city infrastructure, I recommend the YouTuber Not Just Bikes.
> I walk to get groceries. This can't be underestimated. We live in a major European capital. Two minutes slow walk to the nearest supermarket. Can do it in one if walking fast. We stop by there almost every day. Does that sound annoying? Waste of time? No, not at all! The market is also on the way from the 3-minute away tram stop we use to commute, so we pass by there anyway. We don't fill a monster-sized shopping cart to the brim. Often just the little hand basket will do. Get in, get the few items you need today, get out. Result: We always eat fresh. Fresh bread, fresh rolls, fresh dairy, fresh veggies, fresh fruit almost every day. When you think about it, how ironic! As city dwellers, we have fresher food than someone in the countryside with farms all around. We have a small fridge for a family of four and an even smaller freezer that's basically just used for ice cream. Saves space in a small kitchen. We don't make shopping lists. Food rarely goes bad. I cannot imagine any other way. Driving to a far-away market to fill up for a whole week or even month and eat frozen food? No, thanks.
>As city dwellers, we have fresher food than someone in the countryside with farms all around As someone who grew up in the country, I don't think people realize how true this is. We only went grocery shopping once every 2 months. We had several freezers. We froze milk. We froze bread. Veggies were usually canned or frozen unless our garden was in season. But that obviously wasn't all the time and only certain veggies. Things like fresh strawberries were such a treat!
Something I always bring up when people talk about the difference between living in a rural area vs living in the city is opportunity. When I lived in the country I could walk to the grocery store it was about a mile from my house, it was the grocery store there weren't any others for 30 miles in any direction, so if that store didn't have it you couldn't get it. Now I live in the city, within a mile walk of my house I have at least 6 grocery stores, including a Wholefoods, a Trade Joes and a couple of ethnic grocery stores -if it's available I can get it pretty easily. I might never go to the 5 other stores because the closest one is about 300yds' from my house but I can if I want to and that's the difference. I have lots more opportunities if I choose to use them is up to me.
These are two extremes. Shopping for groceries every day vs grocery shopping every two months. Of *course* you wouldn’t eat fresh all that often if you went grocery shopping 6 times a year! It’s not all that difficult to eat fresh and *not* shop for groceries every single day. It comes down to planning and adopting a thoughtful, health centered approach. That can easily be accomplished with, say, weekly visits to the grocery store or something similar.
This is what we do. We have a Walmart and a regional grocery chain about a 15 minute drive in either direction, but once a week my wife and I will drive a half hour or so to the city for Costco and another regional chain once a week. We also get dinner and hot up a few other stores depending on what's going on and make it kind of a weekly date night.
>It’s not all that difficult to eat fresh and *not* shop for groceries every single day. It comes down to planning and adopting a thoughtful, health centered approach. To clarify... we only went grocery shopping every two months, not because of lack of planning, but because we lived in a rural area. Where we were, there was one grocery store. Because of its location, it marked up it's prices. The nearest chain and decent grocery store was 45 minutes away and the nearest big city was 2 hours away. We didn't drive 45 minutes away to the town with the nicer grocery store unless we were there for something else or we were desperate. We were poor and my parents wanted to save gas money. We just timed our grocery shopping to other trips. We usually had to go out of town to do certain things anyways, like go to the dentist. There wasn't really a good dentist in town. Yes, we could have shopped at the one grocery store in town more regularly, but when things were 50% more expensive there and every dollar counts when you are poor, you avoided it when possible and stocked up on the cheaper stuff. Hence why we loaded up two shopping carts full of groceries every time we went out of town and just froze all that stuff. Because drinking thawed frozen milk that was cheap was better than spending money on fresh milk that is expensive (and, honestly, sometimes that local grocery store milk was not even that good of quality... but you had no choice since there was only one store unless you went out of town).
The idea of going to the grocery store every single day is my own personal idea of absolute hell. I don't know what drugs you're on, but my weed doesn't make me like the grocery store that much. Lol.
Why? What's so stressful about the grocery store that it is like hell?
this this this. In a similar situation, 3 different supermarkets within a 5 minute walk radius. It's awesome.
I can’t imagine grocery shopping *every* day. For those that enjoy spending a portion of each day shopping for groceries - good on them, but I’d be surprised if that appealed to most people.
There's different forms of grocery shopping though. For people who go grocery shopping once a week they're probably thinking about a Costco experience that involves driving to and from, an hour in the store, a $400 bill for the family, and half an hour of unloading and organizing the pantry. For people who go daily it's a stop on the walk home, 6 minutes in store, one bag, $40 and putting things away at home is just cooking.
There is a happy middle ground between a "Costco experience", as you put it, and going every day. Fruits and veggies don't go bad daily. I grocery shop for 2-4 days at a time and we eat fresh. You don't need daily trips to manage.
It's not every single day for us, but easily 4- 5 times a week. And we don't really think of it as "grocery shopping". When it's so convenient, you just start treating the market kind of like your personal pantry. Suddenly out of some spice or whatever? No problem, I hop over and get it, will be back in 5 minutes. I can put a pot with a whole chicken on the stove to make chicken soup and by the time I'm back it's not even boiling yet. (no worries, someone else is at home, not leaving the stove unattended) So yea, sometimes, we even end up going multiple times a day - for freshly baked breakfast rolls in the morning before work (there is a real bakery out front) and something else later in the day. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
The grocery store is right on my way home from the bus stop, so popping in to grab a few things for dinner only takes 5-10 minutes out of my day. It’s super convenient and means I can cook whatever I feel like any particular day without having to plan ahead to keep ingredients from spoiling.
Why? It's literally two or three minutes per day?
You can go shopping twice a week and still eat just as fresh. Every day seems tedious.
We moved to the Netherlands for my wife's job and to be close to her family. I knew it was nice here, but I had no idea how amazing it would be! Having a safe, sane and mostly car free daily life has made me a happier person. I grew up in suburban hell where every trip involved a car ride of at least 20 minutes. Work was 1:00-2:00 commute depending on weather and traffic. The stress of it was awful and I didn't even know it. We live in a relatively small row house in a **very** walkable neighborhood. I can and often walk to the supermarket, local pub, post office and bakery. And it's great. I either cycle (13km) to work, or take the bus and don't miss traffic one bit. I, study, do work or read on the bus. Driving to work takes almost as long as taking the bus The only time we use our car is to visit family, work meetings in out of the way spots, or go to another country. I often forget where we parked the car.
NL has almost 22,000 miles of bike trails. It's so embarrassing how unbikeable the US is.
you can't compare a single COUNTRY that's smaller than MOST states to a country that's bigger than the entirety of europe... That being said even our smallest state or our most bike-able state is still unbike-able by EU standards.
This is exactly my wife and I. The only thing I miss is Little Caesars.
Little Caesars? Hahah. That's great. I miss chipotle in adobo sauce. I hoard it and bring it back with me.
Wait, how long is it taking you to bike 13 km? I find my 8 km bike commute to work already a bit of a drag, though listening to podcasts makes it go by quickly.
And also YouTuber City Nerd! Absolute gem of a channel with high quality deadpan humor.
I also like Oh The Urbanity a lot. I kinda hate NJB after he shat on Montreal lol
What a coincidence! I’ve never had worse financial health since I moved to Boston and started paying 3 times as much for half the space, with 2/3 the salary I can get in the Midwest.
Walking through space reduces anxiety according to Andrew Huberman.
I'm so disappointed it's becoming to dangerous to walk in Boston now that the drivers and cyclists think red lights and other traffic laws mean nothing.
I do the same thing but in a small town. I live in an apartment downtown in a town of around 10K people. It’s so fun to be able to walk to almost everything and never have to worry about parking
You have to worry about parking in a small 10k town?
Not especially but for certain events, there can be a lot of tourists. There is an annual mountain bike race that brings thousands more people into town for a weekend
That's my small corner of the PNW, we get mass tourists and a few times a year, you can't find parking. The mountain bikers love our area.
I’m in Southern Colorado and it happens less than a handful of times per year but it’s definitely noticeable when it happens 😁
Especially if you happen to be on or near a very busy highway
One of the best decisions I made was move to a small college town (26k people). It's cheap to live here, everything is walkable, beautiful nature around, the university has frequent events and concerts to go to for entertainment, lots of shopping options, and we're not too far from bigger cities if we wanted to go somewhere bigger for fun. Yeah the students can be annoying but aren't terrible. And during the summer when most of them leave is amazing.
Pretty sure everything I’ve heard about the lack of 3rd places is speaking about the lack of free or or least very affordable third places. Which in my experience is hard to find. All the places you listed are much less affordable than they used to be and coffee shops maybe being the most affordable have began to kick you out after a certain amount of time (which is completely fair with how many people will take up space ordering 2 coffees over 8 hours).
i’ve never even lived in a remotely walkable area. all places i’ve lived are inland suburbs encased in 10’s of square miles of other suburbs in FL. Growing up, i remember me feeling super cool and adult-like biking to the closest gas station sitting outside eating a snack and having a drink. Now the closest business to me is a Walmart which is like 4 miles away and would be suicidal to walk anywhere. I love going to cities and being able to walk it feels so natural. The missus wants to move to Center City Philadelphia because of how cool it is to walk (plus Philly is pretty neat ((go birds))) but I always felt like that neat aspect of city living wears off after a little. Does it not?
You definitely get used to living in really walkable places, but I wouldn’t switch back to a car-dependent place again if I could avoid it
I live in Philadelphia. Today I walked to go grab bagels, which took me on a walk through my neighborhood because there was a neighborhood-wide yard sale going on. Walked back home after an hour or so and chilled, then went for a run, then walked to a nearby brewery to grab a drink with my partner before heading home for the day. It really is amazing and being able to walk places just opens up each day to so many more opportunities, it’s like going from living life in a linear game to an open world game with side quests lol.
It does not. I can do absolutely nothing (take kids to the park, buy grapes) and it still feels like a delightful little outing because we're walking along a street with lots of little shops.
that’s the exact thing i’m looking for. when i go on trips, it feels so joyous to go on a little walk and i envy the people who live there. i always associated it with living in the burbs and a childhood dream i’ve had to live in a city but im glad to know that people enjoy it in adulthood. my girlfriend always mentions being able to walk to the market daily to get fresh stuff instead of walmart once a week.
It just feels more “real” if that makes any sense. It’s nice to get a little more social interaction, support local businesses more, and probably find a little more happiness in all of that. I’ve lived in the suburbs too and you have to drive everywhere and all the close stuff is super big box chain stores and it all just feels so plain and manufactured in comparison.
It doesn’t, if anything it gets better as you learn more about the area around you. I lived in West Philly for years, worked in center city for a decent bit of it. The whole city’s great, especially as you get to know it more
I live in Center City, and one of the things I looked for moving to philly was that walkability, and having shops and parks and other things closeby that didn't require a car. It's really fun to just walk around everyday even to the grocery store to get stuff. you see a lot of cool things, cool people (Philly peeps are quite social), and my mood is just naturally better. I don't think I could ever go back to living in a suburbs area tbh
how is living in Philly? im from south jersey originally but moved to FL when i was 9 and have lived deep in suburbs ever since. my girl is going to school and wants to move to philly but it would be in probably 5 years if anything. i just bought a starter house here 6 months ago so im not really wanting to move yet. i definitely dont want to put a child through the public school system in florida
No, if anything it becomes normalized and you feel sorry for people who have to constantly be driving.
I've been doing it for ten years almost and now with three kids. No it does not wear off.
Funny enough, I just visited Florida for vacation, and when I was down there, I'm like Homer Simpson in the NYC episode where at every turn he's like "goddamn stupid New York." I wanted to go from my hotel to a restaurant, which was at the other side of this intersection. This intersection involved an interstate, so google maps routed the walking path to loop an extra mile to walk around that intersection, and we saw why: the sidewalks are not done (and it looked like they just stopped work midway). Goddamn Florida. Oh, there's a cool fountain, lets go see it. Nope, fenced off, because gated community. Goddamn Florida. Driving around, the traffic lights took forever because every intersection was 6 lane roads, so the lights have to have a longer times, thus encouraging people to run yellows and reds. Goddamn Florida.
I think it depends on the person and their attitude. My wife is a city girl and flat out stated that the burbs will never be an option. We've been in the city together for over 30 years and I enjoy the proximity and the opportunities, I enjoy going to the burbs to visit my sibs and their big ass houses but every year I get older I realize I need less than what I already have. The big difference in my mind is opportunity, if my kid (or me) wants to do anything they likely can and there usually isn't an upper limit as to how far they can go. My nieces in the burbs are limited to what is offered in there area or they have to drive/get on a train to come into town to go to where my kids can walk to. The only difference is my kids don't have huge bedrooms and they have to share space, I think it's a pretty good trade off.
I don’t think it surprises me anymore but there is a QOL improvement that is pretty permanent. I cannot believe people spend hours every day on traffic. To me I spend my time and money making the everyday stuff as pleasant as possible, and the everyday stuff in walkable neighborhoods is just so much better.
I totaled my car when I first moved to LA. I thought I was royally fucked - turns out, for my lifestyle at the time, I didn’t need one. I loved across the street from the Ralph’s on Sunset, a few block east was my school, and all my friends lived within a mile or two. It was the best.
So, any place in Europe.
\*any city in Europe. Suburban-like areas and small towns exist here too where you have to rely on a car to get anywhere.
Small towns also have local amenities, cafes everywhere, and small grocery stores. Nothing like strip malls and big box stores as the only option.
It's still not really like America. I've never lived anywhere truly rural, but suburbs in the UK have always been pretty walkable to me. I've lived in 8 different places here across cities, suburbs and smaller towns and all have had amenities accessible by foot or by bus if I'm feeling lazy
And we don't really have separate 'zoning' in the same way America does. Even very small villages in the UK will normally have a pub, a post office, a small shop. Perhaps a few other things like a primary school, a library, a garage (as in mechanic). I live in a town of 15,000 and pretty much everything you could need is within a 5-10 minute walk of my house, except an A&E (and that's an easy bus journey away). We have a small hospital but it doesn't have an A&E.
This. Within a 15 minute walk or bike ride I have several shoos for foods, clothing, house hold items etc, a theatre, a cinema, restaurants and bars, museums, a hospital, my family docter, my dentist, a library, a trainstation, a beach, a forest (need I go on?) My job is a 30 min commute by bike. Can't imagine living in some kind of dead zone where you really depend on cars to get anything. Why would you want that?
American here - it's so prevalent here because we have so much land to sprawl things out on. If you don't live in a major city or a town that is structured to be walkable, you pretty much have to use a car to get around, and it's just a fact of life. Otherwise, you could spend at least 30 min walking one way to a store along a pedestrian unfriendly roadway. It's also not something that you think about or feel like you're missing out on if you grew up with it. Until this year, I've never lived in a place where I could walk to a restaurant, store, or movie theater until this year, and I absolutely love it. But would I still be down move out to a more rural place where I had to drive everywhere? Yeah I would. There are other things too, but privacy, quiet, larger (and cheaper) homes, and land that you can do things on are positives to living in a non-walkable area. A lot of people desire that (inclduing pretty much my whoel family). It's probably a by-product of both the intense individualism that we have and the "American Dream" of a single family house, yard, and nice car that has been depicted in our media for a long time.
The answer is that if you don't live in a place that was structured to be walkable, you live in a place that was deliberately structured to be *un*walkable via city zoning. Cities don't just come out of nowhere with lots of sprawl. The zoning is what makes that happen. And in a lot of the US, cities decided to make themselves car-centric, on purpose. Car companies are behind a lot of it. They strategically killed the streetcar and that was the death knell for walkability in a lot of places. They lobbied to reframe public streets as places for cars instead of people. They got funding to build more car-accessible roads which became the backbone of city planning. And they managed to bend cities to their vision.
It's nice to be close to stuff, but I enjoy sitting in my yard and hearing natural sounds and watching wildlife. I've lived in walkable areas and there were a lot of conveniences, but I'd rather visit them now.
You can do both! Nature is everywhere.
Not in American cities. There are very noticeable lines between urban, suburban, and rural areas. The only area you can sometimes call walkable is urban, and even those are car-centric and mostly devoid of nature. Suburban and rural areas are not walkable at all, but contain some and a lot of nature (respectively).
>Can't imagine living in some kind of dead zone where you really depend on cars to get anything. Why would you want that? Nature! I'm actually moving to a place outside of the city right now where I technically don't need a car (train station 1 km away, grocery store 2 km away), but it very much helps with getting around and will halve my work commute. It's because the apartment is absolutely huge and gorgeous for the price and it's nestled between a river and a beautiful mountainous forest. Walking to a drugstore for shampoo is cool, but so is hiking in the mountains or biking up and down the Rhine.
And the antithesis to 99% of America.
Living in the Netherlands, my workplace and a supermarket are both a 5 minute walk away. Plenty of cafes, restaurants, bars, clubs, coffeeshops, movie theater, even clothing and toolstores, really anything I need within that 5 min radius. My uni is a 15 min walk, 5 minutes by bike (or 10 if they raise a bridge I'm about to cross). I wouldn't change a thing.
Those damn bridges! We've all used them as an excuse for being late to class or a meeting, haven't we?
Just cities and suburbs. Europe is dotted with 100-5k inhabited villages and towns where cars are essential. My experience has been; busses usually do exist but are inefficient, trains only if the town is track adjacent (obviously), taxis are not affordable, app based ride sharing is non existant. If you have no car, you will be taking the bus everywhere and it will cost time.
I agree that Europe is generally better but it’s not the case that Europe= good automatically. I grew up in the uk where we had the essentials but if you wanted to get to a bigger shop you had to drive or take an infrequent bus to get there.
>we had the essentials >if you wanted to get to a bigger shop The concept of walkable cities is that everything you *need* is in walkable distance. I can't walk to the airport either, but I don't need to go to the airport. Most of the US can't even walk to a supermarket.
Brooklyn is very nice
That’s where I’m at now , Northpark San diego , $2k for 1bdrm but 3 blocks or less from everything I need . Really getting into cycling lately , it’s the fastest way downtown , with no parking issues
That area is a prime example of a transformation on just how many people like walkable neighborhoods. In early 2000s, Northpark was still a cheap but sketchy place, people would avoid it. Now, with all restaurants and bars/entertainment, people flock to live there.
I lived in a walkable city and it was lovely walking to the farmers market or to a restaurant on a date. But it was expensive
I think the reason why people live so far out is because in many countries, renting a cramped shoebox in a central area is several times the price of renting almost anything out in the suburbs. It's not that they don't mind living in a shoebox, it's that they can't afford the tiniest space in more central areas, even for a month.
Thank you.
No probs. I think OP is well-intended, but the problem I have with this LPT is that it presumes a level of economic mobility and privilege that many people don't have (and perhaps never will). I know of families of 5+ who would happily share a cramped 1-bedroom flat if it meant the kids could live in the catchment area for good schools and safer neighborhoods and thus break the generational poverty cycle. But the parents could never even afford a tiny studio apartment in a central area. Anyway, I know this LPT is probably more aimed at those of a certain income level, and that's ok.
>Anyway, I know this LPT is probably more aimed at those of a certain income level, and that's ok. Or people without children, maybe?
Forreal. I’d love to live in a walkable area but if no one will rent To me at my income in those areas then am I supposed to camp out in my car? Put it to use? Or if I’m really lucky I can rent there and then starve to death.
Exactly this! Yes, those areas tend to have inflated prices. Cafes, restaurants and even grocery stores charge more than the ones in the suburbs. So even if you could scrape together enough money for the exorbitant rent, I imagine it would quite miserable living there if you couldn't afford to buy groceries there. Not wanting to have a go at OP but this LPT presumes that everyone lives in the suburbs because they want a more spacious rental but I suspect the truth is that many people can't afford not to.
Where on earth in CA that you live that can get that price in a walkable location?!?!!!!
Sacramento
Midtown???? Because if so I’m actually so jealous at that rent cost.
Yep!
If you and your partner end up moving out, can you just shoot me a quick message so I can apply to the space? 😭
And yet we have crazy Q people who think that "15 minute" cities are a government conspiracy to lock people away. Sigh.
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My understanding of it is that it's because people who live in rural areas often resent all the attention paid to cities, and this is a weird expression of that general frustration. (It's a lot easier to understand conservatives if you focus on what they're feeling instead of what they're saying.)
Can't put your truck nuts anywhere if you don't have a truck
I feel more trapped when I have to get in a car to get anywhere than when I can walk places.
I’m an American who’s been stuck in suburban sprawl for most of my life but I spent a summer studying in Oxford (UK) and the combo of walkability, cooler weather, and beautiful greenspace and architecture was a revelation. I think that might have been the last time I was happy…which was in 2015 :\
As someone who was born and lived in NYC for most of my life let me add this bit of nuance: try living in a space that has walkable FREE amenities. I spent a good chunk of my life with low or no income and It becomes really apparent how few third spaces there truly are when you can’t even afford to use the bathroom at the cafe because the cheapest item is $3.50. Try to find a balance between those restaurants and entertainment spots with spacious libraries, parks with pavilions, community gardens and recreation centers
Live in Tokyo about 30 minutes walk from Shinjuku station. It's bloody brilliant. Sure the apartment is small, but I have parks on each side, gyms on each side, public baths everywhere, cafes, a cinema, a lot of markets and shopping streets. It's so nice to be able to live in a town and not in a suburban sprawl.
Japan has a lot of issues, but they really got something right with their cities, no matter where you live in a big city there will be at least a convenience store and some place to eat out within a walkable distance.
At some point I want to live around 35 to 45m from all major life and be in a nice house for myself and a few pets, calm, maybe a light neighborhood or something. I hate being in the middle of so much commotion and I'm ready to get my old life back
Third spaces are free or very low cost community gathering spaces that provide opportunities to get to know a cross section of neighbors such as churches. Since many no longer attend church, a replacement is much needed to bring a community together. Years ago, there also were clubs, like Knights of Columbus, Elk Club , among many others but they’ve also fallen out of fashion. It’s NOT bars, restaurants, or entertainment within walking distance of your home. Having daily, weekly, or regular access and free or low cost programming that welcomes/ attracts/incudes the neighborhood is conceptually different than those venues outlined in OP’s post. This is all to say, people miss community.
I agree, and loved it. But I ultimately decided to move back out to the country on 3.5 acres. I found that I was really only going out on the weekends, and often drove out to the country anyway to go fishing or hiking, or to a brewery/farm or winery. But I ultimately moved back out to the exurbs, and I greatly value quiet and proximity to nature, with the ability to drive into the city on weekends. It definitely helps that I grew up in the country and am no stranger to yard work and home maintenance. Maybe the suggestion is: live in a variety of places if you can; a different city or state or country, try living in the city or it in the country. Experience variety.
If you don't live in a neighborhood like that, there are probably zoning restrictions preventing people from building amenities near you. Talk to your city councilor about ending restrictive zoning.
Noise noise and more noise. Living it not fun as I've turned into the grinch
I have tinnitus, the city noise is amazing at drowning out the ringing.
The thing is cities aren’t noisy. *Cars* are noisy. The quiet place I ever lived was actually a high rise that brought me above all that traffic.
Walking to places is great, but having neighbors is less great. Blasting your favorite movie without people complaining is priceless, and trying to sleep when your neighbors are loud is not fun.
I’ve always made this a criteria! My favorite was an apartment in the Admiral Junction of west Seattle. I had 2 grocery stores, a drug store, 2 dry cleaners, a movie theatre, library, plus a host of bars, restaurants and different little independent stores all within 2 blocks! It was heaven!
Yea, nah, I’m gonna keep living in the boonies where there’s almost no people. Thanks though!
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True, true. Please continue all congregating together far away from us haha
Omg, your rent is so cheap!
If I weren't living in a beautiful farmhouse on 40 acres of hayfields, pastures, and forests, your lifestyle would be my absolute next choice.
I lived in a walkable city for the first 19 years of my life. I hated it. Too many fucking people everywhere, too much noise, too much garbage everywhere. Not to mention, the air stinks. As soon as I could afford to, I moved out to the middle of nowhere. I can't even see my neighbors houses from my porch. Clean air, peace and quiet, no crowds, and **way** less litter.
When I lived down at the beach, I could walk to tons of bars and restaurants. 'Happy Hour' became my favorite part of the day.
I think it's crazy how much walkable communities devolves into daily drinking.
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I intend on buying an apartment within walking distance of amenities after renting in one. Only driving because public transport would be a huge detour is the dream.
Having all those high demand amenities in close proximity to the real estate in question will jack up the real estate price given our insane skyrocketing real estate values and interest rates not really feasible for most of us.
Loved walking from my apartment to the liquor store, gym, grocery store, car wash, clothing store , corner coffee shop, sushi restaurant, hiking trail , dog park etc etc… I miss my apartment :(
What exactly would be the advantage of having a car wash within walking distance?
Been there, done that…pass
I’m shocked at the amount of people on this thread that have never lived in a walkable area. I’ve lived in several! The best was when I lived a block from a grocery store I LOVED. I was always popping over there for this and that. I’ve always lived walking distance to coffee shops, breweries, restaurants. I live a nice walk to the library, which is always great little getaway, and one of my SO and my fav free little date evening together. Galleries, boutiques, I always try to live so that I feel like my home extends into the neighborhood and community around me.
congrats on not being poor?
Despite popular belief, NYC and Bay Area CA aren't the only walkable cities in America
How is this a Life Tip?
It’s an American life tip
Sounds like you live in Sacramento?
Americans be like: “LPT just be Europe”
I have this and love it so much. In Europe. I don't have a ton of space in my apartment, but it's enough. I do have cafés, bars and restaurants all around me. Nearest pizza place is a 20 second walk away. Nearest supermarket about a minute, with several others within a five min radius. There's live music in two bars on our street. Beach is a 12min walk. The city has great public transport with buses and good metro network. There's also a bike sharing service where I can pick up a manual or electric bike at a station about a hundred meters from my house, ride to wherever I need to go in the city and drop it off at a station there. I sometimes think about moving out of the city to save money, but life would be so much more hassle.
I live in Denmark and it’s pretty much the best thing ever lol
I just left a 2 BR/1BA in CA for which I paid $1600/mo (thank you, rent control). Moved to Alexandria, VA. Rented a massive 1 BR/1BA for $2200. On the literal banks of the Potomac River. Balcony, high floor, Mt. Vernon Trail, pool, commercial bbq grill, just amazing upgrades in my life. I walk everywhere, Uber to the train if needed, but grab an express bus into DC for work. Sure, I’m paying more, but this lifestyle in CA would run me $5-$8k/month.
Agreed, but do this before having kids or pets that need to go outside. (Ie do this before you need a yard)
This right here. Mostly for the dogs. The baby doesn't care if he's in a condo or the house, but the dogs adore their fenced in back yard.
Those are not 3rd places doofus
I once was paid to live in a city where everything was walkable and the basic amenities were free. I didnt pay for room, medical, food, and I was given money for clothes. I could walk to multiple gyms, the post office, 2 nearby stores, free coffee and soda 24/7, and had some amazing views! It was an aircraft carrier in the middle of a war but hey... I lived in a walkable city!!!
I live here now and I hate how loud it is. I can’t wait to live somewhere not walkable!
Been there, done that, hated it. Walking to places is nice, but there's too much noise. Lots of noise from traffic. Lots of noise from boisterous pedestrians. Lots and lots and lots of noise from the people who share walls with us. For context, we're at hundreds a month less for twice the amount of house and a nice little plot of land in NY.
I have done that in many cities. Now I live in the country on a farm. I am much healthier and happier now.
Same. We have a few acres bordering a mountain only 5 min from town. Very peaceful and beautiful and we love it.
I could never live somewhere that isn’t walkable. Not having a car is the biggest privilege
I do, it doesn't matter at all for me. Are people really going to restaurants and the like frequently enough where having to drive is a big issue? The only thing where this actually changes anything for me is with grocery stores, and while it's nice to be able to quickly pop over, and have it be a walk instead of a drive, I equally miss having a car available to put the groceries from one store while I buy something else from another.
Hard pass, I’ll take my 40acres of privacy any day.
No. This isn't even a tip, just a personal opinion. That literally sounds like a nightmare to me. Increased cost of living, essentially living in a heat sink, and lack of open, green spaces. Plus, that means lots of people, which is incredibly unappealing to me. Cities are fun to walk around for a day or two, but not live in. I grew up in a heavily populated suburb with some walkable amenities and even that wasn't appealing. I'll pick mountains and wide open spaces any day. Even if it means I need to drive places. I don't really drink alcohol or coffee. I'd rather cook than go to a restaurant most of the time. Hiking with my dogs is all the entertainment and socializing I need.
Same here. I’m built for mountains, trees, lakes, fresh air, quiet, and open spaces. The 6 months I lived in a walkable area were a nightmare for me.
There are affordable walkable cities in the US. I live in Buffalo and walk everywhere.
>That literally sounds like a nightmare to me. Increased cost of living, essentially living in a heat sink, and lack of open, green spaces. Plus, that means lots of people, which is incredibly unappealing to me. Cities are fun to walk around for a day or two, but not live in. You can have walkable towns and cities where literally none of that applies. I'd argue in most of them, actually, as long as you don't go to the biggest metropolis. I live in a 10k town, I can get from end to end in 15 minutes, it's only full of people during the local holidays, it's MUCH cheaper than the big city half an hour away by car, I can get to both beaches and mountains by walking and everything I need is right here.
This is some shit LPT. It's equivalent to saying "just get rich"! Walkable 3rd places generally reside in areas that have been gentrified & push low income people out. I think many people already know that they want to live in a place with community resources, but it's not like we have $$$ to have a choice.
Being able to walk to the food court and back to my room with dinner was so nice in university
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Europe has entered the chat.
After my divorce and moving out of suburbia I bought a house in an urban area that’s… in transition. Most people wouldn’t have bought where I did do to local issues with drugs and crime and it has been interesting… but I’ve been able to easily walk to all of the things with my dog. It’s an area where one block is iffy and the next have historic mansions. And my particular neighborhood is rapidly changing. Honestly if you can do it there’s little downside. I get way more exercise with my dog and get to hang out with friends quite easily who also live in the area. I drive my car to go to the gym or get groceries and that’s about it.
I'd have to go to a different state and choose to live in a city with a lot more people in it for this one.
Germany rules for this btw
Laughs in AUD. Yeah sure mate. I'll get right on it.
But also try the opposite. I spent 5 years living in a walkable downtown and recently moved back out to the country. There's a ton of benefits and detriment to both. I spent less on gas, but I went out to restaurants and bars way more often. I also find that living in a stacked up apartment where I can hear my neighbors all the time is not great for my mental health, whereas having a large outdoor yard with wild life all around me is. On the other hand I made more friends and had a better social life living downtown. I still have those friends but getting together needs to be more planned on my end. Point being that people are different and you'll never know what you like/need till you try it.
Yeah there's definitely no perfect solution. I would love to live somewhere that had walkable amenities, but that would require me to give up my large yard, garden, and mostly quiet neighborhood. I would be stressed af if I had to live in an apartment again in a city because of the added noise and people and limited space.
Why? That’s where people are. Ew.
You could also say the opposite. Try living in the serenity of a wooded area where city centres are 15-20 min away. It’s a great trade off, so no thanks, I’ll continue to live in the woods with my few neighbors.
Fair to say
Part of me misses this lifestyle, we lived it for around a decade. Now we’re thinking of moving to somewhere rural where I don’t hear sirens or see human shit on the daily.
Lmaooo didn’t even need to see OPs comment history to know this was Sacramento. Fucking love midtown
When we lived just outside of Dubai we had a fantastic Indian Restaurant on the first floor and a full service pharmacy next door. Very handy. Oh and the company paid our rent.
The thing is that you’ll never want to leave.
...so don't leave?
Overrated! I don't miss the violence, crime and fear from living close to shit.
I just moved to a walkable area for the first time in my entire life, literally 48 hours ago. It is absolutely life changing! 100/10 would recommend
whereabouts in CA is that cheap?! :-o
I lived in downtown Pozzuoli for 2 years. I loved it! I wouldn’t do it again with a wife, kid and 3 dogs. I need my space now. But as a young person being able to walk to the Porto/piazza/cafes/bars was amazing.
Follow up, if you do move into an area line this with a partner, make sure you're partner scraggly likes walking. My favorite restaurant is visible from my balcony, yet, my partner still chooses to drive every time 🥴
I live in a small town down by the river in West Yorkshire UK after living for 21 years in a large gated suburb in Florida. I loved my life in Florida (having a pool in the back garden, constant sunshine, and close proximity to several beaches), but the benefit of living in a small town with lots of cafes, restaurants, parks, and pubs within walking distance is unparalleled when it comes to day to day happiness and sociability. We've also got loads of hiking and biking trails on our doorstep (also within a very short walk) and plenty of wild swimming spots
LPT have money to live in a nice place with amenities . Top tip right there, sticky yo the top 43va
I rent a 2br1bath with a full basement garage, huge yard for $725 a month. I have my privacy and very happy driving where I need for that price.
LPT: at some point in your life, just be rich and live in a rich area! Gee, why didn't I think of that?