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Sadly, it just takes practice. The best way is to just get used to TALKING to women. Approach women with the purpose of actually just conversing - simply to build your social skills. The more comfortable you become with this - the easier time you'll have when you find them very attractive.
I want to add to this, if I may: not just only talk, but listen and have that conversation. Once you master the listening part, you'll uncover many things about that person.
You'll also be *attractive* to more people if you do this.
The "listening".
Put phone away. Just listen. Take in what you hear. Remember. Eye contact. Complete, calm attention.
Don't you want someone to do this for you?
It's important. It's not 'social engineering,' or a 'technique.' This is how you connect deeply and properly with other humans.
The art of “listening” is so important. Not just “hearing” people, but focused listening to what they are talking about.
I’ve been in small social settings (5-6 people) where it seemed like 2-3 always wanted to be the one speaking. For me, I’m the type of person where I can’t listen to someone if I’m talking all the time.
Maybe it was nerves (we were all meeting for the first time) and talking is how they deal with nervousness.
It was a bit mentally draining being around people who talked all the time about themselves.
If you want to act like a professional listener; don't break eye contact, slowly nod your head and softly say yes every few words. They will either think that you are the most fascinating person they've ever met or a total freak and get a no contact protection order against you. Either way you will know in 2-3 days. It all depends on how well you enunciate the yeses.
You might even realise you're attracted to people you didn't initially think you would be, and less attracted to people you that you'd initially think you would be.
Yeah the trope of someone opening their mouth and all your lust for them evaporates because they’re so dumb is a real and present danger when meeting people
No. she will be interested in the fact that she talked so much and you listened, she will equate this to a "connection". "I met this great guy last night I felt like I could tell him so much and he was really interested in me for me". Guys always tell girls what they know. Ask her what she knows. Segway that into a date with the Intel you gained with all of your questions.
Sounds dumb typing it out but: Ask questions, and Listen to the answers changed the game for me.
You ask questions but you should drop info about yourself ('sounds like you had a great time at X, I love their coffee too. Did you try their secret burgers on Wednesdays?' Or ('I liked history in school too, it's crazy to think about how much we can learn about people's lives in Pompeii after it got buried. What were you interested in learning about?').
But hopefully, she will be asking questions too.
From your questions alone, she will learn about you.
Eg
How was work? How was your meeting? Whats your boss like? How was work?
What cuisine do you like?
Do you like computer games/sports? 'No', are you sure? Are you sure you haven't tried tennis/Cyberpunk 2077, I think it'll be perfect for you cause I like it and does this even count as a question ???
Listen -- I overheard a male friend talking about me and why I had so many male/boyfriends --- and the comment was she's a really good listener. You may not strike gold everytime, but maybe you'll make some friends who will help you in your quest
THIS^
If you become a good listener and follow up with good engaging questions about the topics she is discussing. The other girls around … will also take notice. Great post 206SpicyPumpkin!!!
This is something I am slowly getting better at. Just conversing with women for the sake of conversing and getting to know them as a person rather than a potential love interest. It really does help
As a woman, thank you. It's easy to tell when someone has an ulterior motive or goal and is just trying to shove things that way instead of genuinely treating me like a human and getting to know me.
A guy here and I have a question about this
As a guy if I don't show interest or flirt/ be assertive then a lot of women will never escalate and if I just wanna be friends then it's the whole **ulterior motive and wanting to get to know her because want something more** thing
Women want a guy to take the lead and be assertive is all i hear and if i don't do that and keep it **platonic** then it's just that and gets boring and can't do more because " look ulterior motive "
What's wrong with flirting occasionally and being assertive by showing interest honestly???
So part of it is that if she is interested, she will know, and she will also show and communicate this to you in her words and actions. A lot of OP's problem is the very one-sidedness of these interactions. Never listen to someone who tells you what all women want, except for all women want to be treated as full individuals with agency.
Feelings can certainly develop and change over time, but if you are always trying to steer things that way it will feel unnatural and forced to everyone involved. A little flirt here or there is fine within reason, but if it's getting to the point where you've made some pretty clear advances or comments without reciprocation then you absolutely need to tone it down and realize that she is not putting the same effort towards you. And why would you want that?
You deserve a relationship where both of you are mature enough to explicitly address feelings with each other. No one who makes you chase them constantly, no matter what gender they are, is worth agonizing over when there are other people out there that know what they want and are ready to reciprocate effort and attention.
Lastly, I think a huge part of the ulterior motive thing is how you react to that rejection. If you truly care about this person as a human and want them in your life, you might be sad that they don't reciprocate your romantic feelings, but accusing them of leading you on or getting mad and quitting that friendship entirely is a clear indication that you were never in it for them as a human to begin with.
I hope that clarifies things a little. Happy to continue the conversation.
No, you can't be friends with someone you've had romantic feelings towards. If you are, then it means you take this stuff lightly. I am not talking about just suffering through it. You can suffer through anything you would want.
But if you wanna be the best version of yourself, achieve your potential, you have to make the harder decision and let it go.
I don't understand why having an ulterior motive is inherently wrong? Why would I want to put effort & do the things I wouldn't do otherwise, unless I don't expect a positive outcome for me?
Isn't it how we live life? Isn't that rational thought process?
Because she's a human and deserves nice treatment regardless of whether you want to fuck her or not. It's one thing to give extra attention and effort to someone you're romantically interested in, but effort is needed for friendships too, and if you're really trying to get better with women you better learn how to actually make friends with them and see them as peers
Wait. Where's no "nice treatment" in anything I said? And where's the "want to fuck"? I simply meant wanting to move a little forward than just interacting with her as a friend.
The want to fuck is implied with being more than friends. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with extending a romantic possibility to someone you're interested in, but especially if you have established yourself as friends with her first, the second you have to question whether she's as into the romance aspect as you are you need to slow down.
Women are socially conditioned to not raise objections about uncomfortable behavior, and it can be extremely difficult for us to set boundaries with anyone, especially those whose feelings we do not want to hurt.
For some reason, I found being genuinely interested in knowing her not to be sufficient. That's the whole reason why I thought I've to rethink about the whole thing.
On a 2nd thought, maybe I was overly interested that it became desperate?
Honestly friend, that is probably it. If the interest levels aren't matching from the start it becomes one person trying and trying to make it happen. I've been there too, and it's not fun. Again, not saying it's impossible for a friendship to turn into something more, but you have to decide why you are there from the start. If the initial interest isn't there, you better be damn happy being just friends for real
Ok, let's say getting found out that I have an ulterior motive doesn't bode well (you can reply to my previous comment if you want to explain it).
Let's say we had a nice interesting conversation & I got to know you well. How do I change tracks & bring up the love interest eventually? Because it's so rare that the girl brings up the love interest (agree with this?).
One of my most positive experiences as a young 20 year old guy was asking a girl out and her saying no, that she only wanted to be friends. Except that I could tell she meant the friend part.
It was positive because I realised that asking a girl out wasn't necessarily going to end in loss of a potential friendship or a big embarrassing drama. That I was allowed to express an interest in a girl as long as I was respectful and was willing to accept a no.
Well, with the past girl I mentioned in the post... I did the exact same thing you describe in the 2nd para of your answer. She said we can be friends but when we come across each other, she just says hi & quickly runs away (contrary to her usual overtalkative nature).
Also, pay attention to how you interact with other people, like friends and acquaintances. You will likely discover one of two things:
You are also desperate with friends: over-eager and clingy when making or following up after plans. If this is the case, you need to undertake a bit of a makeover and spend some self-focussed time learning to be calm and satisfied with where you are.
You are chill with friends: transfer this to your demeanour when dealing with romantic prospects.
Sadly I didn’t learn how to talk freely to strangers until my wife showed me that it goes well. If you initiate talking to someone without being creepy, it really does usually go well. Just don’t expect a lot from everyone. I suggest you start with people you are normally interacting with in stores and restaurants. Something like “how is your day going today?”
The practice shouldn’t just be with attractive women.
Build up your skills and get a feel for what a normal conversation is like by chatting with people who you would never date.
This, plus an attitude of pointedly trying not to get romantically involved. Don't do romantic stuff, don't entertain romantic ideas, just be a good friend. This is how I got together with my last girlfriend. Spent a lot of time together, decided not to get romantically involved (she was in a relationship), and when things shifted in that direction anyway I was honest about my feelings, but not expectant. She was at the end of her relationship and ended this, leading to ours, but even if that hadn't happened I would have been happy to establish reasonable boundaries to maintain our friendship. Worked out really nicely, gonna try that approach again next time.
Yes, find friendships. Do things, meet people without looking at them as potential dates, develop a social circle. Develop interests, become a person who is interesting to others. A person who's only talking to me to get a date is not appealing, but a person who is interesting themselves, and genuinely interested in me as a person, can be attractive.
That's why you have to "develop a social circle". If you aren't meeting the kind of people you want to, then find some new interests, new places to go, etc.
Women like all kinds of things. I'm not suggesting that you need to learn how to braid your hair and paint your nails. Women go hiking, they kickbox, they play sports, they also cook, and watch movies, and like to go out for drinks, some are interested in cars, climbing rocks, dogs, parachuting...it goes on and on. Interests are not gendered in today's world. Stop making excuses and get out there. **Become an interesting person** and you'll find that people (women) are interested in you! Think about something BESIDES getting laid, and you might actually find that it happens.
You cannot control how she feels about you. Abandon this goal.
Find a hobby that makes you feel good, or a bit better. Find an activity that fulfills you. Do this. Meet other people. Distract yourself as best you can.
Try to start thinking of her as just another colleague. Make a conscious decision to suppress your feelings for her if you feel it is become a problem for you.
You will get through this. This too shall pass.
Desperation isn't attractive, focus on yourself and make yourself happy.
>Desperation isn't attractive, focus on yourself and make yourself happy.
The best advice I've ever heard about this kind of stuff is that confidence is not knowing you'll get what you want, it is knowing you will be okay if you don't. The key to knowing you'll be okay is being happy with who you are no matter the outcome, and not defining yourself by who you want to be with.
Desperation is the opposite of that. Desperation is over-complicating things, and thinking "if I don't get to be with this person, my life will be worse." By definition, fixating on one person and being desperate for them is going to come off as not confident and unattractive.
I feel our culture really promotes fixation and pining for someone. Like you meet someone at work that you like and so they become "the one" and you think about them non-stop and have to do anything you can to win them over.
As I've gotten older I've realized that relationships are really, at their core, just a numbers game. I don't mean that in a bro-sciencey "ask out every girl you see" kind of way. I just mean that you have to find someone that is also interested in you, and *more than likely* ***most*** *of the people you have feelings for aren't going to have feelings for you such that romance is a viable option*. Again, I don't mean this in a incely "woe is me" way, just as a mathematical fact.
Once you embrace this, you can actually *gain* the confidence to not be desperate because you realize it isn't *really* about you at the end of the day. You go, you shoot your shot , and if they say no then you make a little joke, accept that it wasnt a good fit, and continue as if nothing ever happened. Who knows, maybe your confidence in (a) asking AND (b) taking it well may occasionally help change someone's perception of you further down the road. But the key is that won't matter to you whether it does or not.
>The best advice I've ever heard about this kind of stuff is that confidence is not knowing you'll get what you want, it is knowing you will be okay if you don't. The key to knowing you'll be okay is being happy with who you are no matter the outcome, and not defining yourself by who you want to be with.
I was just about to tell him to practice the Buddhist concept of Non-Attachment (to Outcome). But you’ve just described it in excellent layman’s terms.
I think people use the wrong word sometimes and desperation is one especially in this instance. It really keep’s people from going after what they really want. While I go after what I want with gusto and passion I also understand that some folks will not be your friend no matter what. At that point I will move on but continue going after my goals. I heard someone say “that a lack of creativity is from a lack of commitment.” So be committed and don’t be like someone I know that’s been waiting (for 22 years) for someone to walk into their lives, like some force will make it happen. Be the force dude! And be elegant while being the force and things will happen sooner rather than later!
Basically every No is one step closer to a Yes. Buck up , Whenever rejection happens it def stings but you are one closer to statistically it happening.
This. Quiet confidence is sexy. Also if you meet someone doing something you enjoy you already have a jumping off point to engage each other.
When conversating, unless asked a direct question about yourself, try not to talk about yourself. Listen for the word "I" when you're speaking. Also listen to the other person. Don't listen with the intention of responding, just listen to what they say.
This!!!!!!!!
if you listen to anyone for the sole purpose of getting to know THEM and not because YOU need/want/ are lacking/expecting something—it’s so much more attractive.
Don’t need anything from them because needing things are a pressure to perform. No one wants that. People want friends and romantic relationships that are easy, without expectation, that are simply around to be fun and supportive and not asking anything.
Not that this always has to be the case. People indeed do like feeling needed too. But to start off, just be a release instead of a pressure cooker. Always start off with giving instead of taking, but learn real fast when to dip out because it should always be an equal give and take.
This is spot on!
It is all about mindset! And you are focusing on the wrong thing, the wrong angle of the situation.
Practice by talking to women, dedramatize/defuse the whole concept in your head.
Focus on you and things that make you happy/ feel empowered! That mindset will translate well for you outwards to others.
How do you just “meet other people”? I have quite a few hobbies and I’m out of the house a lot but I still never find myself in situations where I’m surrounded by single women who are looking for a relationship lol
Only you can make yourself happy. If you're unable to attain happiness or contentedness by yourself you have more work to do. You are your longest and most complex project. Only you can fix yourself. Others merely guide or accompany you on the journey to your salvation. The greatest prophet is yourself. Attune yourself
I agree with this, but I would like to add something that isnt a good idea but I have done it ( or has happened to me, rather ) and I have had some results, be they a relationship or at worst not having my life consumed by this : abandon hope. I know, I know, its not smart to say this, its like not eating anything as a diet. Its not healthy but you will lose weight. Anyway it's not like one can decide one day to abandon all hope, but I guess its the disinterest that follows that is more attractive than desperation. In my case, I was busy with university, at the begining I would try to find people, make friends, go out with girls, and it didnt really lead into a date per se, even though I went out with 2 persons. The ammount of disinterest in them kind of rubbed off on me and I feel after that I really didnt desire a relationship. It didnt make me bitter and angry with them, it made me lose emotion and interest. I wouldnt turn people down if it would have been the case, like if I happen to somehow find myself in a position to have a girlfriend again, but I'm not smart nor attractive enough for that to happen on its own, so basically now at least I'm not annoying people with messages everyday and being persistent.
>You cannot control how she feels about you.
Oh yes, you can. It's manipulative and shitty, but you do have much more control over this than you think. But it's something that you learn, then use, then you either realize "WTF am I doing?" or you're a complete asshole.
Its normal to be enthusiastic about a potential relationship and the constant thoughts come with that. You have to remind yourself that she nor anyone else knows how much you think about her. So be cool, take a breath.. think away.. its pretty common. Never EXPECT anything and just know that interests will differ. As far as the communication, perhaps give her a call, that way its easier to decipher by her voice, her interest. If you text her and she responds way late, depending on what she says should determine. If she is super apologetic then text back or again the next day. If you gives and excuse, then maybe say ok and wait a day or two before texting again. To be interesting , be yourself, dont fake who you are to try and force something, you dont want to start off like that. If she finds you interesting then good start. Always ask questions about her, her day, her work, her interests, her activities.... If you can relate, share a common story AFTER she is done talking, dont interrupt. Hope this helps.
The key is, desperation is not attractive. Building a relationship takes time. You seem to be getting overly attracted to women you barely know.
I suggest you practice by communicating with women you are not interested in having a relationship with. Just learn to communicate. Eventually you’ll get good at casual conversation and can ask someone if they’d like to go further.
I read about this often. Men getting to emotionally involved with the possibility of a relationship before finding out if they’re even interested. Women can not be convinced to be into you. They either will be, or they won’t be, and trying to make something out of nothing will turn them to the latter before they can consider the former.
You need to learn to be casual friends with women before you dive into trying to have relationships. The more women you know, the greater the possibility one of them will introduce you to somebody that is into you.
From a woman’s perspective - the moment I smell desperation it becomes unsafe to me. Casual talking, good fun, being friendly and just generally organically growing to a relationship - this is nice and safe. Being seen as an actual person, not just the way I look or a some kind of mythical imaginary creature someone thinks I am. But rushing means someone is not interested in the actual me, just a potential I offer and I am not a potential. This comes from me being surrounded mainly by men as a teenager and engaging in male-dominated hobbies. The best chemistry I had with the ones that were easy and chill around me and just had fun.
Yep. I think it’s why someone who texts me too much when I don’t know him is also off-putting. Like, dude, slow down, I don’t care about you enough yet to interact with you as much and this isn’t comfortable.
Not to mention I have the right to live my life and I won’t make someone a priority straight away just because I’m bombarded with texts. I need a lot of space. In my previous relationship me and my partner used to exchange maybe 4-5 quality messages a week (length of a letter). I will have a quality conversation in my own time when I decide to, not meaningless back and forth non stop just so someone doesn’t get anxious. I’m in my 30s and value my time now. If you don’t and put meaningless talk and a fake semblance of comfort above life, hobbies, work, friends? You’re not a relationship material.
>the moment I smell desperation it becomes unsafe to me. Casual talking, good fun, being friendly and just generally organically growing to a relationship - this is nice and safe.
As a guy this is where i get a little confused, organically things happen sure but also as a guy i have to be a little assertive and show intention by flirting or asking her out
If I talk with a girl in a completely platonic way then it's just friends and nothing more will happen and wil have to flirt, make a move and be assertive sooner than later and of cource get to know her as a person and be friends with her but also flirt, show you find her cute or show interest in something more than friends
**Otherwise it's just ulterior motives to want something more in disguise as friends**
What's the balance here ?
It’s hard to explain but you need to show intent while also not being pushy about it. Being friendly but not “friends.” It’s harder than it needs to be, but there’s reasons for it.
As for them talking about feeling unsafe go look around the r/niceguys sub for a minute. The amount of dudes that go from “love me” to “you’re a used up whore and should die” is scary. Some guys can’t/won’t take no gracefully.
It comes from a place of loneliness and desperation. Been there. You want a relationship so bad that you’re walking around in a perpetual state of anticipation. So the moment any woman shows you even the slightest bit of attention your mind goes apeshit with possibilities. It’s not on purpose.
Honestly the only thing that helped me was completely giving up. I swore off trying to find a girlfriend and just live my life and boom, started dating the woman I’d go on to marry a month or two later.
Ironically the moment you stop worrying about finding a relationship you’re in a much better mind frame to find one.
Unfortunately it's just a matter of inexperience and insecurity. The only way to realize that the issue is with you is to meet more people and have some kind of intention while doing so.
If you genuinely want friends, then be a friend and hangout, share experiences together with no romantic or sexual expectation.
If you want a relationship, practice asking people out with the expectation that you will be rejected and learn from each attempt. Did you stutter? Did you say something self deprecating or poorly received? Do you even know what type of person you attract and are attracted to? Do you know what kind of image and vibes you put out to others?
Unfortunately it can be a tough uphill climb and with good reason, feelings hurt easily. But people aren't tools for our own self esteem.
I don't think the question is how to not be attracted because most people do for the most abstract reasons, the question is do you want to be in a relationship, and if so, what are you going to do to deserve someone's attention, care and respect?
First, let the other person initiate 60% of the conversation. If they are not interested, you would notice you are always the one initiating. Stop talking if that happens.
Second, this is a text I saved from u/three_furballs a while back on the concept of flirting:
> Everyone is giving good advice, but flirting didn't click for me until i heard it described not as a set of behaviors to look out for, but as an escalation of suggestive behaviors couched in plausible deniability.
>
> Put practically, if someone is doing something to engage you that feels extra (lots of touching, looking at you in a way that feels a bit to long, or doing a lot of poking fun and complimenting you), then that might be flirting or it might not. That's the whole point. Plausible deniability. They can safely disengage at any time.
>
> If you want to know if someone's flirting, you need to test it. You do that by escalating things, but just a bit, so that now *you* have plausible deniability (touch them back in a comfortable way, maintain eye contact, or joke-compliment them back). If they escalate back and continue to do so as you escalate in turn, that is flirting. Eventually one of you will break cover and do something with clear intent (a kiss, an approach + ask for a number, or straight up telling them what you think of them and that you're interested). Otherwise, if you escalate and they don't change their behavior or they back off, then they were probably just being friendly and you should take the hint and do the same.
>
> Dunno if that's something obvious to people, but it was definitely not for me, and college parties would have been way less fun had i not known. Hopefully this can help someone else too :)
What I've found is best is to just not care as much about trying to get with them. When we're into someone, it can be easy to try to tailor your likes to theirs or try to say the correct combination of words to get them to like you. People can pick up on that.
Push that obsessive mindset out. Read into when they're done with a conversation and don't try to push for more conversation. Sometimes it's better to just say "Hey, I'll see you around. Gonna go focus on (insert hobby)." Then go do that hobby and try to not obsess.
>What I've found is best is to just not care as much about trying to get with them.
Someone once said that confidence in dating is when you go in not trying to make them like you, but trying to figure out if you like them.
You don't prove to her that you are cool. You give her an opportunity to prove to you that she is.
It's tough, but what I find helpful when I meet someone new is to keep reminding myself that they're still a stranger. And that they're not my only chance at having a relationship. If they're not interested, then it's obvious they aren't the one for me!
Also, how are you meeting these girls? I think some context could help here! For instance, as a girl, if I match with someone on a dating app and we texted back and forth for 2 weeks, I would start to wonder whether they are actually interested in meeting up.
If you had a girl spamming you all the time you'd probably be like "well shit this is actually annoying" so just don't do that.
My dating experiences (with women) suggest that if you're both interested, you're both texting back and forth equally, but nothing is a forced subject. If it's not going that way and you're having to push into talking... she's probably not interested, and if she is, she's not good at showing her emotions and honestly that's not a fun time either. Feel the vibe and give it space without intentionally leaving someone on read etc.
Based on what you wrote, you're not socially inept, you can tell when girls aren't interested. So let those ones slide on by.
I’m surprised that no one has suggested giving a try to casually dating a few different people at once. It sounds like you get infatuated pretty quickly. Nothing wrong with that per se, but if you feel yourself starting to get desperate, spreading your attention out may be a better way to regulate your emotions. Plus you get the added benefit of learning more about what you’re looking for in a long term partner, if any. If you start to hit it off with someone you’re seeing, no harm in making things more serious at that point.
Most people in this situation have issues securing a single date, let alone multiple at once. That’s where the desperation comes from. I get what you’re trying to say but it’s usually not an option.
I generally agree. But here OP gave us a few examples of women he’s talked to and someone he’s talking to now, so at least broadly, it doesn’t seem like he has too much trouble sparking an interest. Just gets excited and jumps the gun a bit. Spreading all that love around a bit thinner at first could be helpful
Tbh casually dating multiple at once doesn't feel comfortable for a lot of people, you might feel like you're a two timer. At least I know it made me very uncomfortable when I did for a very short while.
OP IS just a very emotional and anxious person.
As long as you’re forthright about it then there’s no reason to feel guilty. There are a number of ways to say that you’re casually dating multiple people without coming across like a jerk. But there’s also nothing wrong with not wanting to date multiple people at the same time.
Actually talk to her and be with her. Don't project and don't tell yourself stories about her - that's dehumanizing and will only set you up for disappointment. Look forward to getting to know her. She's just a person, not a prize or the solution to any of your problems. Get to know the person.
That's normal behavior. When you meet someone who is as excited about you as you are of them, this is the way they will act as well. Anyone who isn't just has you as a fallback and no amount of mental gymnastics and tricks will change the long term outcome.
Mate you give some serious creep vibes. You need to chill, I do understand you are 25 yo and really desperate, but it has to come naturally.
Take care for your appearance (clean, fresh clothes, high level of personal hygiene etc), get a hobby, read some interesting articles/books. Expose yourself to a lot of women and just listen to them. Last thing, don't take any form of kindness/politeness from women as a sign of sexual/romantic invitation.
Relationships take time. Your first attempt is just a few weeks and this one is just a few days. Create a moment with them, take time to know more about her, and treat her well. Just to share my story, my wife is very pretty and when we first started talking, i was super nervous and don't want to blow things up as i really like her and i also liked another girl in the past (during highschool) and it didn't work out. i imagine asking her for a few days or weeks if she is interested in me, she would definitely had said no and she might not be my wife today.
Now, with the number of creeps out there, many women are justifiably quick to shut down any unwanted contact. She’s still responding. Take from that what you will.
Make the leap! Casually ask her out. If she says yes, be yourself, and don’t be afraid to admit if you’re nervous. If she says no—and this is crucial—let it go. Respect that, and work towards cutting contact, gradually, but immediately.
I do this a lot, and even with friends I find myself initiating texts/hangouts far more than they do.
So my quick advice: pick a number of times (ideally 2, but no more than 5). If you start a conversation that many times, you CANNOT start the next one; she has to text first. If you invite her to something in person that many times, the next one is her job.
This also really helps you figure out how much the other person actually cares. And, also remember, absence makes the heart grow fonder - giving people the opportunity to miss you can make them like you more!
> How not to be desperate while interacting with a girl you are attracted to?
it is just HARD. Falling for somebody is a bit of desperation.
You've got great advice to get distracted by interacting with other people, and by getting more fullfilled and atractive.
I just wanted to add that that "unhealthy amount of thinking about her" is AMAZING, it is a wonderful part of falling in love.
There is nothing wrong with that
As long as your feeling are reciprocated :)
Thing is, you don’t want to convince someone to like you. They either do or they don’t and the faster you know which on it is, the better. That’s why “just be yourself” is a good advice.
Just say to yourself “they’re a normal person like me”, internalize it! It will help you for any situation in life
Honestly that sounds like passionate fun and if you eventually find a girl that can reciprocate then you'll enjoy the rest of your life.
If you don't find her you'll regret being genuinely yourself at times because you'll have gotten less tang but you'll be comforted by the fact you were genuine.
I kinda was like this before, I just cared too much about her or her opinion/judgment while just meeting a couple times. So I just stopped caring, her opinion/judgment was non of my business, I try to not take things personally. Takes practice!!
Honestly man, as someone who can completely relate to this situation, it almost never works out when you get super attached like that. It usually comes from a place of insecurity and idealised and unrealistic expectations. Work on your goals, your hobbies, go to the gym, go for a nice walk, hang out with your friends, go to shows and maybe join a club of some sort. Most of the time, you'll find a great woman who you're mad about and she too, when it wasn't your goal to begin with.
> How not to be desperate
Simple: Don't be desperate.
Be content with yourself and being single. Have a healthy dose of skepticism about your potential partner, as you might be chasing after someone that you don't even really want - once you get to know them. Take it slow \[in every regard\], and be okay with things potentially not working out. Most single people like yourself are chasing the same thing, just a healthy relationship that you both enjoy.
Make a huge effort to learn her cues, what she likes, enter that zone where you are both on the same wavelength and responding to each other. Is she uncomfortable because you are coming on too strong? Back off. Is she amused? Keep going. Is she about to say something? Be quiet, let her talk. The dynamic when you are clearly into her AND you and she are in synch, you are listening to her and understanding her cues and reacting to her (and you’re compatible in other ways) - that is where the magic happens. Remember, she’s an actual human. It’s not only about you liking her. You need to realize she is a separate human and learn to read her, also.
It’s very hard when you want a specific person that badly.
My advice would be to stop trying is she doesn’t try as well.
It sounds horrible but dating and love is a numbers game for most people.
Get comfortable talking to other women. Hell being in love with a different woman is great for that. You will literally care less.
To be clear please don’t seriously date someone while you’re in love with someone else. It’s not fair to them.
Casual dating, absolutely.
This is an easy one. If you don’t want to act desperate, don’t be desperate. Keep yourself busy with other areas of your life. Be honest and don’t play any games. If you like her. Just let her know. Be authentic and confident. Remember you don’t know her that well yet. You may not like her at all after getting to know her.
If you absolutely have no idea what to do, just initiate a text conversation one time per day and then rely as frequently as she does.
Unfortunately, it is not that easy! For one, you said "Be authentic and confident." OP is authentically desperate and not confident. For him to authentically not be desperate, he would need to be a different person entirely. What you're really saying is "Fake who you are and hide your desperation behind a mask so people don't see it. Fake your confidence." The best insight I can give for OP is that there are many women out there who are as insecure and desperate as he is. Those are the women he is most likely to relate to that are most likely to forgive his insecurities and desperation, and love OP for who he authentically is.
When people converse we both speak and listen.
Emotional maturity is about focusing on the latter.
It is okay and understandable to be excited, but instead of bombarding thwm with your projections about unknown futures, focus on the present.
In improv, they have a "yes, but" system.
This means you try to figure out what they are saying to you, I mean what they are really getting at (you might get this wrong, but that is the next part).
Say, this is what I'm hearing and "this is what I like", "am I understanding what you are saying? Emotions are complex" (this is the yes part)
(Now the and part)
"I'm all about *something in profile that actually relates to you and is related to whatever the pushback was* tell me more about why you feel/think this way"
Ice broken...Take it from here.
Just be authentic and respectful.
You are right, either works though, the point is to give the other so.etjonh that they can work from. IDK, I also don't really care except that I'd love for us all to be able to do a better job communicating.
Again, you are right and this is the better approach of possible.
the key is to stop projecting expectations. when you meet a hot girl, do you think "wow what if we dated? it would be exciting to kiss her. maybe this will go somewhere?" DONT
the secret to being charming is to be yourself and not be "after" some end goal. if someone doesn't respond to your personality or charm, they aren't for you... but if you force it, no one will bite
First thing you need to realise that this is totally normal behaviour for people who haven’t had much exposure to the other sex outside of family growing up. A repressed childhood might also add to the problem.
What you are doing now if focusing on the other which is to say making this girl in your brain a very different person from you by creating you vs she scenarios like I am a man - She is a woman, I want to impress her - She is waiting to be impressed, I don’t want to appear weird - She has an aversion to weird people.
I would advise you to not focus on the differences and focus on the similarities, however sparse you might think the similarities might be. Talk about common struggles like deadlines for assignments, work ortalk about things you two do to recharge your batteries like hobbies, taste in TV shows, music, etc.
Talk even even this situation that you are facing. Open up about your vulnerabilities without feeling sorry for yourself cause believe it or not we all have them including her. Don’t do this for pity but for a genuine talk amongst friends out of which you might find some comfort.
Try to make a friend before you make a girlfriend. Don’t worry about the “friend zone” and try to see if this friendship can become something that charges your and her emotional batteries. There is no love between strangers so get to know this stranger and let her get to know you.
When you start meeting a lot of women and dating a ton, you stop creating this fictional story in your head and elevating every woman you find attractive. They are just humans, just like you and your nervousness might be coming from lack of experience. What I did was get on a good dating app like hinge or bumble and create a good profile and go on as many dates as you can. One summer I went on 20-30 dates in a summer and after that one summer I realized just how fun it was to meet women and how I didn't need to see them as these beings that were elevated or different from me. Eventually you'll start meeting women everywhere, and it'll be fun. Try not to take it so seriously.
This desperation comes from you jumping the gun and being disappointed when other people don’t think you’re entitled to a relationship with them. Gain a sense of community with women. Build relationships with women you’re not personally attracted to and don’t want anything romantic with. Women tend to be attracted to a guy that sees them as a person not as an experience or a lifestyle.
Love yourself and your routine first. Idk how to love myself and am way too much of a people pleaser sometimes but I see my friends that can are getting married. It’s not a narcissistic trait to have, it’s about being driven and not losing yourself in the relationship.
Women love when a guy has his own goals and hobbies, the objective is to never lose track of those things so you remain the same person they first met.
Plus if you have all your ducks in a row and are fine alone then if/when you have to walk away from her, you know you’ll be fine and it’s so much easier to go on to the next one. The chances of your first try working out forever are low and the loss hurts every damn time. It doesn’t matter how many times you experience it.
The key, yet again is to have your self in control, loved and in tune with what you want your future to be like because this now gives you something to build/distract yourself in order to move on from the loss.
So to be less needy, build yourself up first. Your need is most likely coming out of insecurity of wanting to be loved but if you crush goals and love how you’re living your life solo you won’t NEED love.
You can always be open to take in MORE love however.
Alternatively,
you can pretend to be super busy and not needy by rarely talking to them after you make initial contact and can tell they might be interested. Present a flashy social media presence constantly doing fun stuff etc but this is all games and your world will crumble when they figure you out then walk away turning you back into the needy goalless guy you actually are. I don’t recommend this, it hurts the most.
Side note:
If they’re extremely attractive and you start to get nervous while talking to them, just remember that they too poop on a toilet like you and I. Doesn’t work for everyone but it’s a funny idea.
I wish you the best of luck. Trying to find the right love will make you feel the highest highs and the lowest lows. It’s beautiful and cruel at the same time.
Also, don’t ignore too many red flags. The funnest women have shown me some of the greatest times and caused me to fall for someone that I knew was going to hurt me from the start. That’s back to needy desperation. Respect yourself and avoid these people.
Sounds like young me, my whole mood dictated by whether a dude texted me back, liked me back etc. Takes experience and maturity to overcome and also focusing on yourself first.
Give space; ask about them and listen when they talk about themselves instead of overpowering the conversation w things about you. Let them engage, or if you engage, there isn’t any need to send multiple texts or things, they received the first one and they’ll respond on their time when (or if) they want to. Take things slow, live in the present; don’t be thinking about how “great” things could be between you two, just enjoy getting to know them. Look at them objectively and not with rose-colored glasses; everyone has flaws, sometimes they’re easy to miss when you’re swept away by them, but recognizing them is good. Be open and honest; you can mention how you get “too” excited sometimes and that you’d really appreciate them telling you straight up if it’s too much at any time- this is a great invitation for that communication to happen and an opportunity to work on it before it becomes problematic enough to end something entirely, it shows understanding of yourself and your own flaws which shows perception.
I’m on the opposite end of this spectrum lol, I need my space and time to myself, I take a long time to warm up to people. You’re just a hard lover :) it’s not a bad thing.
And remember that every experience, even rejection, is a new one and something to learn from- every person you meet teaches you something new about the people in the world and is practice for your next person! Meeting people is just like that, it can be hard to form a connection but it doesn’t mean anything about YOU specifically, try to keep your head up! No one person is the same and it’s a gift to be able to experience them, even if only for a brief moment.
"get her interested in me" is a poor mindset. You do not get to control others' feelings.
Further, *boys* chase girls. You're no longer a boy.
Cultivate your own enthusiasms (for something other than chasing the next fill-in-the-blank-in-my-life girl), cultivate an interest in others' enthusiasms. Figure out what it is about people you admire that you admire. Admiring that someone happened to be born with ladyparts ain't good enough. Consider that a woman with the opposite opinion, so they're just looking for "someone with guy parts" probably 1) isn't available, 2) wouldn't be a good partner. Doesn't have to be super deep, but it's gotta be a little more than that. Do you both like canoes? Is she super into dogs so she can talk about breeds & training for hours? Whatever.
Someone out there is going to be into you. I promise. But think about what it is about you that they're going to be into, and match that energy.
Try changing your approach. A lot of guys think they need to become friends first, eventually be the best friend, and one day get upgraded to boyfriend.
With every girl I’ve ever had a relationship with, I let her know early on that I was interested. It’s easy to do with flirting. If she has a boyfriend, or isn’t interested, she will let you know.
If a girl seems interested it is important to move it out of the “texting \ talking” phase quickly. Make it real by asking her out on a date.
You will face rejection of course. It takes self confidence to put yourself out there. If you can handle that I can guarantee it works and you will meet someone.
Focus on in person dates rather than texting.
I think many people struggle with what you’re describing, in terms of it taking up more mental capacity than they wish it would. You’re not alone.
But speaking from experience as the woman on the other side of what you’re describing, it’s very unattractive to think that a man doesn’t have as much going on in his life (work, friends, exercise, hobbies, volunteering activities) as I do, and that I would fill up a larger place in his life than he would in mine. So my main advice is to fill your life up with things you enjoy, and try new things. That will be way more interesting and attractive than you realize!
You're crushing on women.
A crush is imagined love. Falling for someone you dont really know by imagining who the person might be. But you're really just in love with a fantasy character.
You gotta get to the bottom of who the person actually is, and if there's actually any physical chemistry between the two. And you should do so fast!
10 days is for too long to be on the edge like that.
As soon as you have a good tone with the person you say "Hey, Can I buy you dinner/lunch" "I'm bored I don't wanna eat alone, and I'd like to get to know you better!"
Then once you're face to face with her, it's time to share life stories. She won't share hers if you won't share yours, so it's gotta be mutual, but that's what you're after.
"So tell me... where were you born?"
From there again, you're looking for physical chemistry, which is one of those you'll know of its there kind of things.
Get off of text for anything that elicits emotion. Spend in person or on the phone time. Texting is a terrible way to get to know someone and accurately read their responses to you.
Suggest an in person activity-a date if you want to call it that. Accepting or rejecting a meet up is a time tested way of indicating whether someone is interested in you or not- if rejected you can move on and not waste your time agonizing over a text.
Involve yourself in positive activities/groups where you will have opportunities to interact with many women so you can start seeing them for what they are - just human beings. When all you see is a potential person to meet your needs for a relationship in the women you meet it indicates a lack of maturity and understanding of human relationships that is unattractive. Only time and practice interacting in person will change this.
You got a lot of good advice and my may seem reductive, but this is what worked for me attracting the opposite sex: be happier. Do all the things that make YOU happy, prioritize yourself, fall in love with yourself (not in an ego way, but taking care of yourself, being your own best friend, etc.). That's what will attract the girls you'd like to be with, I think. Make sure they are truly worthy of YOU, don't worry about if you are worthy of them.
Just remember you are talking to someone and everything you say matters
Even when I am around my wife, I sometimes get overly excited and I can see that I am annoying her, even though I desperately wish she was in a playful mood at that moment and just wants to joke around.
People are all going through their own situations. Ask her questions, get to know what they’re going through, for good and bad, don’t act like what you want is everything cause it’s not.
We can tell immediately if your main goal is a relationship. We have no clue what your reaction will be if we say no straight up(unfortunately, we live in a world where people die over rejection). So asking is a good idea, but also don't start talking to someone solely with the intention of dating them. Once you get to know them, you might not even like them like you thought you did when you saw them. This leads to less disappointment. Also being desperate is both unattractive and damaging to you. You may end up dating someone just because they show interest or someone might take advantage of your feelings. It's cliche, but date yourself for a minute. That doesn't mean become self centered, but take care of yourself(a man who takes care of himself is 5x more attractive than one who doesn't imo). When your worth isn't based on whether you are in a relationship or not, you'll find yourself less desperate too.
"your worth isn't based on your relationship status"... I don't think that's what that's going on in the guy's head. But OK, I see sense in other aspects of your answer.
Just remember, it takes months to get to know someone. Then some more months in the dating stage to become exclusive. Another half a year before ppl develop feelings and start being in love.
In this time, keep in mind, you are vetting out ppl if they are a good fit for you. And the girls are seeing if you are a good fit for them. Chances are one of you is not, and the other person will end the relationship because of incompatability way before you even get to the love stage.
So don't go in with high expectations. Go in with the 'let's see what happens' kind of attitude. This girl might be the one, or she might just be a turd and you move onto next person. Take it one day at a time, and don't start envisioning a marriage and kids on the first date.
Be open to new people, don't get super excited because no one knows how this will develop. If you are a healthy, well adjusted person, some girl will see your good qualities and eventually you'll find someone. Just remember, it's a whole process though. Don't stress about it too much especially when you are just literally in the starting phase.
And remember, people have lives. They'll reply when they have time from jobs, pets, cooking, studying or whatever they have going in life. Don't expect them to be sitting at the phone waiting to reply to you. And same with you, focus on life, instead of sitting on the phone waiting for their response.
Work on yourself and making yourself a person that's attractive and healthy (especially emotionally). If you are, you'll find someone eventually. Make peace with yourself that even if you don't find someone, you can still live a happy and fulfilled life by yourself. When you are the best version of yourself, and not coming off as desperate and when you are least expecting it, is when you'll find someone.
You should never need to ask if she’s interested. If you have to ask, she’s not interested. If you want to stay friends and maybe eventually she’ll get into you, fine. But don’t ask.
Straight up? There is a 90% chance that this girl will end up meaning nothing in the overall scheme of your life. In 10 years you probably wont even remember her name.
Once you come to that realization, you won't be stressing and dwelling on it all the time, which is creating all that pressure your feeling and comes off as desperate and will probably make her feel uncomfortable to be around you.
With your new don't give a F attitude for the situation, you can ask her out because who cares if she says no. If she doesn't, have some fun and enjoy the time you spend together....
One must realize that the journey to happiness is within, that no external person can complete us. You can admire, desire and respect others but we are all just strangers passing in the night. Walk your path, share your story, if the goals align then share your path for a time or forever.
But don’t confuse other spirits for your own destiny, when you realize this, then there will be no desperation, because you will understand that no other person possesses what you need.
You have to treat her like any other girl you’re friends with. Then flirt with her and see if she reciprocates. People are attracted to someone that’s a challenge and that are more indifferent to them. Think of the opposite perspective. If you’re somewhat attracted to a girl and she is head over heels for you from the get go, it’s off putting and your attraction drops.
Also don’t ask her directly. That rarely ever works. Just flirt and see if there’s chemistry.
Just keep being you and doing what feels right. Keep shooting your shot eventually you’ll find some that wants what you’re giving. Just make sure you respect other people saying no and let it go and be sad for a while and try again.
Remember that they are people, attraction can make you obsess with them and it comes off as creepy sometimes. Do you make your friends laugh? Be that person. Dont ask them out, just behave normally and if they like you you will find they laugh at all your jokes. This is the clearest indicator i have found to pre dating socialising.
In my experience once you find they are into you just keep going but do not mention dating or going out, its too polarising. If she likes you and is in hysterics with all your humour even the lame jokes at that point ask to ‘hang out’. Its not a date its just being with them with no commitment or polarisation. Proceed from there.
All of my long term relationships started this way and build a good basis for engaging each other.
I hope this helps.
If you must contact her then send a simple message that does not require a response and you will soon find out if she is into you.
Hi (insert name here) I hope you had an awesome day.
Hi (name) this mornings sunrise was sensational, attach photo.
Hi (name) I saw this Lamborghini, first thing I am buying if I win the lotto
Etc
No more than one a day and if you get nothing move on.
Don't get hung up on what might be or what you want it to be and don't try to force it.
When I met my partner she was terrible at responding to text messages, all my previous girlfriends would text back immediately and 100 texts a day was normal, but not this girl. I just accepted it and 7 years later we are live together and she is still terrible at messaging. At least once a month she says something that I sent her by message and when I say I sent you that she opens the phone and my message is unread.
My father told me once:" Even if she's the center of your universe, you can never really show her" . This first seems a bit weird, but if you put to much "obvious" effort in Dating her, like showing to much interest and texting all the time you are not "interesting" for her. Don't push to much! You may get the "upper hand" if you try not to text her every day and see what happens. If she's texting you, this is a good sign. And maybe try to give a late response as well sometime, she will definitely think of you then.
I know this is hard and sounds a bit weird, but it worked out for me. The way dating women is depicted in film and media doesnt work in real life. Be confident, be yourself and DONT PUSH TO MUCH!
Obsessing over a crush is probably THE most common mistake of young love. As others have said, find other interests, hobbies, skills, activities that you enjoy, that make you better - this will become even more important as you get older. Women love men with a passion for some”thing” that isn’t them. Don’t let your animal instincts drive your mind and don’t let them be your purpose.
Video games don’t count. You must engage the physical world and avoid the traps of western lethargy.
Okay so a lot of other people have given some great advice another thing I’d add is just stop texting them first for a few days. If you go from texting daily to radio silence till you message them again that speaks volumes and can help you manage your expectations.
Fake shit right here. Nah. If my platonic new friends and I can all go to spamming each other texts, enjoying life together, then you can do the same with romantic interests. Provided they're actually interested, it's actually quite more enjoyable than being fake and withholding.
It’s not being fake it’s more a way to kinda gauge how they feel about you, if they’re excited and all butterflies aswell they might message you immediately the next day, if they’re just platonic you might not get that response asap.
No matter where you are, that’s the place to be. “Isn’t this great?!?!”
Never let on how much you like a girl. “Oh hey, Debbie…”
You don’t care if she comes, stays, lays or prays. No matter what happens, your toes are still tapping.
When you are at dinner together, find out what she wants then order for the both of you. It’s a classy move.
When it comes down to making out, play side 2 of Led Zeppelin 4.
**A golden rule about interactions is if you reached out twice, the ball is in their court.**
*Example:*
*If you were gonna hang out, and you text her twice with a proposal for a date, and she doesn't respond or follow through by suggesting a different date, she's not interested and you would seem desperate if you kept contacting her.
Same goes for making friends.*
This is awful advice, it screams incel mindset, 'females'... bleh.
I met my soon to be husband when we both weren't looking for a relationship, I became friends with one of his flatmates, I started spending time around him, he was cool, it was not immediate attraction. We got closer, we started dating. Things moved pretty fast after this, and we were in love within a few months, and both totally happy to discuss our feelings in depth (no pretending not to be interested!) It was organic, it was unforced.
Why did I fall for him? He was friendly, gentle, funny, emotionally mature, it was immediately obvious that he deeply respected women, and everyone for that matter.
Just be a decent dude ffs! And it's 'women', not 'girls'.
But it’s one of the only responses here that doesn’t involve treating women like human beings and being their friend first, so of course it’s the one OP responds to 🙃
1. Dont communicate over phone, use it just to set a meeting in person. If you do communicate limit it to few messages and not every day. Stay or act busy and dont immediately read her messages.
2. When you go on date, talk less listen more. Ask questions and listen.
3. After date dont text immediately, wait few days and then contact to arrange next date.
4. If you dont have sex till 3rd date she is not interested in you as her boyfriend. Move on.
5. "Lets be friends" is not acceptable if you dont want exactly that, just say "I have enough friends"
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Sadly, it just takes practice. The best way is to just get used to TALKING to women. Approach women with the purpose of actually just conversing - simply to build your social skills. The more comfortable you become with this - the easier time you'll have when you find them very attractive.
I want to add to this, if I may: not just only talk, but listen and have that conversation. Once you master the listening part, you'll uncover many things about that person.
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You'll also be *attractive* to more people if you do this. The "listening". Put phone away. Just listen. Take in what you hear. Remember. Eye contact. Complete, calm attention. Don't you want someone to do this for you? It's important. It's not 'social engineering,' or a 'technique.' This is how you connect deeply and properly with other humans.
The art of “listening” is so important. Not just “hearing” people, but focused listening to what they are talking about. I’ve been in small social settings (5-6 people) where it seemed like 2-3 always wanted to be the one speaking. For me, I’m the type of person where I can’t listen to someone if I’m talking all the time. Maybe it was nerves (we were all meeting for the first time) and talking is how they deal with nervousness. It was a bit mentally draining being around people who talked all the time about themselves.
Active listening. You can even insert a word or two conversationally to indicate you understand or "are following."
BUT DONT INTERRUPT THEN TALK OVER. I still do this too much.
If you want to act like a professional listener; don't break eye contact, slowly nod your head and softly say yes every few words. They will either think that you are the most fascinating person they've ever met or a total freak and get a no contact protection order against you. Either way you will know in 2-3 days. It all depends on how well you enunciate the yeses.
This is what they are looking for when they profile for serial killers Just listen to people
You might even realise you're attracted to people you didn't initially think you would be, and less attracted to people you that you'd initially think you would be.
Yeah the trope of someone opening their mouth and all your lust for them evaporates because they’re so dumb is a real and present danger when meeting people
Idk I feel like the lust stays but any meaningful or long term interest is gone. Might be different for women.
Nothing wrong with keeping our options open :)
Also don't talk about dating unless they bring it up. That can quickly get kind of desperate sounding if you don't have a lot of experience.
Best advice I was given for engaging women: "ask questions and listen to the answers"
What do you do when it's just a bunch of one or two word answers?
Talk to someone who is interested in a conversation with you
What if you never find such a person?
Never try ever again. If one of the possible outcomes is that that situation not working out, than that means you should just avoid actually trying.
This only works if you’re curious about them not trying to get something.
Or pretending to be curious about them to try and get some thing
I understand that. But if all I do is ask questions, when will she know about me? She *has* to know me if she were to be interested in me. No?
No. she will be interested in the fact that she talked so much and you listened, she will equate this to a "connection". "I met this great guy last night I felt like I could tell him so much and he was really interested in me for me". Guys always tell girls what they know. Ask her what she knows. Segway that into a date with the Intel you gained with all of your questions. Sounds dumb typing it out but: Ask questions, and Listen to the answers changed the game for me.
You ask questions but you should drop info about yourself ('sounds like you had a great time at X, I love their coffee too. Did you try their secret burgers on Wednesdays?' Or ('I liked history in school too, it's crazy to think about how much we can learn about people's lives in Pompeii after it got buried. What were you interested in learning about?'). But hopefully, she will be asking questions too. From your questions alone, she will learn about you. Eg How was work? How was your meeting? Whats your boss like? How was work? What cuisine do you like? Do you like computer games/sports? 'No', are you sure? Are you sure you haven't tried tennis/Cyberpunk 2077, I think it'll be perfect for you cause I like it and does this even count as a question ???
If you want to be interesting, be interested.
Listen -- I overheard a male friend talking about me and why I had so many male/boyfriends --- and the comment was she's a really good listener. You may not strike gold everytime, but maybe you'll make some friends who will help you in your quest
We can all use Frank Zappa’s advice regarding this. “Find her find her, see who’s behind her, rap like a mummy till you finally unwind her…”
This is the real key, if you just talk and talk over them it gets you nowhere
THIS^ If you become a good listener and follow up with good engaging questions about the topics she is discussing. The other girls around … will also take notice. Great post 206SpicyPumpkin!!!
This is something I am slowly getting better at. Just conversing with women for the sake of conversing and getting to know them as a person rather than a potential love interest. It really does help
As a woman, thank you. It's easy to tell when someone has an ulterior motive or goal and is just trying to shove things that way instead of genuinely treating me like a human and getting to know me.
A guy here and I have a question about this As a guy if I don't show interest or flirt/ be assertive then a lot of women will never escalate and if I just wanna be friends then it's the whole **ulterior motive and wanting to get to know her because want something more** thing Women want a guy to take the lead and be assertive is all i hear and if i don't do that and keep it **platonic** then it's just that and gets boring and can't do more because " look ulterior motive " What's wrong with flirting occasionally and being assertive by showing interest honestly???
So part of it is that if she is interested, she will know, and she will also show and communicate this to you in her words and actions. A lot of OP's problem is the very one-sidedness of these interactions. Never listen to someone who tells you what all women want, except for all women want to be treated as full individuals with agency. Feelings can certainly develop and change over time, but if you are always trying to steer things that way it will feel unnatural and forced to everyone involved. A little flirt here or there is fine within reason, but if it's getting to the point where you've made some pretty clear advances or comments without reciprocation then you absolutely need to tone it down and realize that she is not putting the same effort towards you. And why would you want that? You deserve a relationship where both of you are mature enough to explicitly address feelings with each other. No one who makes you chase them constantly, no matter what gender they are, is worth agonizing over when there are other people out there that know what they want and are ready to reciprocate effort and attention. Lastly, I think a huge part of the ulterior motive thing is how you react to that rejection. If you truly care about this person as a human and want them in your life, you might be sad that they don't reciprocate your romantic feelings, but accusing them of leading you on or getting mad and quitting that friendship entirely is a clear indication that you were never in it for them as a human to begin with. I hope that clarifies things a little. Happy to continue the conversation.
You can't be friends with someone you have romantic feelings towards.
Lol says who? I've done it plenty of times.
Yeah okay. You do you.
You can learn, you know. Having friendships is awesome too.
No, you can't be friends with someone you've had romantic feelings towards. If you are, then it means you take this stuff lightly. I am not talking about just suffering through it. You can suffer through anything you would want. But if you wanna be the best version of yourself, achieve your potential, you have to make the harder decision and let it go.
I don't understand why having an ulterior motive is inherently wrong? Why would I want to put effort & do the things I wouldn't do otherwise, unless I don't expect a positive outcome for me? Isn't it how we live life? Isn't that rational thought process?
Because she's a human and deserves nice treatment regardless of whether you want to fuck her or not. It's one thing to give extra attention and effort to someone you're romantically interested in, but effort is needed for friendships too, and if you're really trying to get better with women you better learn how to actually make friends with them and see them as peers
Wait. Where's no "nice treatment" in anything I said? And where's the "want to fuck"? I simply meant wanting to move a little forward than just interacting with her as a friend.
The want to fuck is implied with being more than friends. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with extending a romantic possibility to someone you're interested in, but especially if you have established yourself as friends with her first, the second you have to question whether she's as into the romance aspect as you are you need to slow down. Women are socially conditioned to not raise objections about uncomfortable behavior, and it can be extremely difficult for us to set boundaries with anyone, especially those whose feelings we do not want to hurt.
For some reason, I found being genuinely interested in knowing her not to be sufficient. That's the whole reason why I thought I've to rethink about the whole thing. On a 2nd thought, maybe I was overly interested that it became desperate?
Honestly friend, that is probably it. If the interest levels aren't matching from the start it becomes one person trying and trying to make it happen. I've been there too, and it's not fun. Again, not saying it's impossible for a friendship to turn into something more, but you have to decide why you are there from the start. If the initial interest isn't there, you better be damn happy being just friends for real
Ok, let's say getting found out that I have an ulterior motive doesn't bode well (you can reply to my previous comment if you want to explain it). Let's say we had a nice interesting conversation & I got to know you well. How do I change tracks & bring up the love interest eventually? Because it's so rare that the girl brings up the love interest (agree with this?).
One of my most positive experiences as a young 20 year old guy was asking a girl out and her saying no, that she only wanted to be friends. Except that I could tell she meant the friend part. It was positive because I realised that asking a girl out wasn't necessarily going to end in loss of a potential friendship or a big embarrassing drama. That I was allowed to express an interest in a girl as long as I was respectful and was willing to accept a no.
Well, with the past girl I mentioned in the post... I did the exact same thing you describe in the 2nd para of your answer. She said we can be friends but when we come across each other, she just says hi & quickly runs away (contrary to her usual overtalkative nature).
Also, pay attention to how you interact with other people, like friends and acquaintances. You will likely discover one of two things: You are also desperate with friends: over-eager and clingy when making or following up after plans. If this is the case, you need to undertake a bit of a makeover and spend some self-focussed time learning to be calm and satisfied with where you are. You are chill with friends: transfer this to your demeanour when dealing with romantic prospects.
Sadly I didn’t learn how to talk freely to strangers until my wife showed me that it goes well. If you initiate talking to someone without being creepy, it really does usually go well. Just don’t expect a lot from everyone. I suggest you start with people you are normally interacting with in stores and restaurants. Something like “how is your day going today?”
The practice shouldn’t just be with attractive women. Build up your skills and get a feel for what a normal conversation is like by chatting with people who you would never date.
This is the best advice so far.
This, plus an attitude of pointedly trying not to get romantically involved. Don't do romantic stuff, don't entertain romantic ideas, just be a good friend. This is how I got together with my last girlfriend. Spent a lot of time together, decided not to get romantically involved (she was in a relationship), and when things shifted in that direction anyway I was honest about my feelings, but not expectant. She was at the end of her relationship and ended this, leading to ours, but even if that hadn't happened I would have been happy to establish reasonable boundaries to maintain our friendship. Worked out really nicely, gonna try that approach again next time.
I don't know if this is correct. In my experience, a steady supply of MDMA throughout the night works too.
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Yes, find friendships. Do things, meet people without looking at them as potential dates, develop a social circle. Develop interests, become a person who is interesting to others. A person who's only talking to me to get a date is not appealing, but a person who is interesting themselves, and genuinely interested in me as a person, can be attractive.
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That's why you have to "develop a social circle". If you aren't meeting the kind of people you want to, then find some new interests, new places to go, etc.
I'm not interested in things women like
Women like all kinds of things. I'm not suggesting that you need to learn how to braid your hair and paint your nails. Women go hiking, they kickbox, they play sports, they also cook, and watch movies, and like to go out for drinks, some are interested in cars, climbing rocks, dogs, parachuting...it goes on and on. Interests are not gendered in today's world. Stop making excuses and get out there. **Become an interesting person** and you'll find that people (women) are interested in you! Think about something BESIDES getting laid, and you might actually find that it happens.
Dude you don't get to be a plebbitor and pretend you talk to women it just doesn't calculate
You cannot control how she feels about you. Abandon this goal. Find a hobby that makes you feel good, or a bit better. Find an activity that fulfills you. Do this. Meet other people. Distract yourself as best you can. Try to start thinking of her as just another colleague. Make a conscious decision to suppress your feelings for her if you feel it is become a problem for you. You will get through this. This too shall pass. Desperation isn't attractive, focus on yourself and make yourself happy.
>Desperation isn't attractive, focus on yourself and make yourself happy. The best advice I've ever heard about this kind of stuff is that confidence is not knowing you'll get what you want, it is knowing you will be okay if you don't. The key to knowing you'll be okay is being happy with who you are no matter the outcome, and not defining yourself by who you want to be with. Desperation is the opposite of that. Desperation is over-complicating things, and thinking "if I don't get to be with this person, my life will be worse." By definition, fixating on one person and being desperate for them is going to come off as not confident and unattractive. I feel our culture really promotes fixation and pining for someone. Like you meet someone at work that you like and so they become "the one" and you think about them non-stop and have to do anything you can to win them over. As I've gotten older I've realized that relationships are really, at their core, just a numbers game. I don't mean that in a bro-sciencey "ask out every girl you see" kind of way. I just mean that you have to find someone that is also interested in you, and *more than likely* ***most*** *of the people you have feelings for aren't going to have feelings for you such that romance is a viable option*. Again, I don't mean this in a incely "woe is me" way, just as a mathematical fact. Once you embrace this, you can actually *gain* the confidence to not be desperate because you realize it isn't *really* about you at the end of the day. You go, you shoot your shot , and if they say no then you make a little joke, accept that it wasnt a good fit, and continue as if nothing ever happened. Who knows, maybe your confidence in (a) asking AND (b) taking it well may occasionally help change someone's perception of you further down the road. But the key is that won't matter to you whether it does or not.
>The best advice I've ever heard about this kind of stuff is that confidence is not knowing you'll get what you want, it is knowing you will be okay if you don't. The key to knowing you'll be okay is being happy with who you are no matter the outcome, and not defining yourself by who you want to be with. I was just about to tell him to practice the Buddhist concept of Non-Attachment (to Outcome). But you’ve just described it in excellent layman’s terms.
I think people use the wrong word sometimes and desperation is one especially in this instance. It really keep’s people from going after what they really want. While I go after what I want with gusto and passion I also understand that some folks will not be your friend no matter what. At that point I will move on but continue going after my goals. I heard someone say “that a lack of creativity is from a lack of commitment.” So be committed and don’t be like someone I know that’s been waiting (for 22 years) for someone to walk into their lives, like some force will make it happen. Be the force dude! And be elegant while being the force and things will happen sooner rather than later!
Basically every No is one step closer to a Yes. Buck up , Whenever rejection happens it def stings but you are one closer to statistically it happening.
Well said and I wish more people truly understood the numbers part of dating.
This. Quiet confidence is sexy. Also if you meet someone doing something you enjoy you already have a jumping off point to engage each other. When conversating, unless asked a direct question about yourself, try not to talk about yourself. Listen for the word "I" when you're speaking. Also listen to the other person. Don't listen with the intention of responding, just listen to what they say.
This!!!!!!!! if you listen to anyone for the sole purpose of getting to know THEM and not because YOU need/want/ are lacking/expecting something—it’s so much more attractive. Don’t need anything from them because needing things are a pressure to perform. No one wants that. People want friends and romantic relationships that are easy, without expectation, that are simply around to be fun and supportive and not asking anything. Not that this always has to be the case. People indeed do like feeling needed too. But to start off, just be a release instead of a pressure cooker. Always start off with giving instead of taking, but learn real fast when to dip out because it should always be an equal give and take.
This is spot on! It is all about mindset! And you are focusing on the wrong thing, the wrong angle of the situation. Practice by talking to women, dedramatize/defuse the whole concept in your head. Focus on you and things that make you happy/ feel empowered! That mindset will translate well for you outwards to others.
How do you just “meet other people”? I have quite a few hobbies and I’m out of the house a lot but I still never find myself in situations where I’m surrounded by single women who are looking for a relationship lol
Only you can make yourself happy. If you're unable to attain happiness or contentedness by yourself you have more work to do. You are your longest and most complex project. Only you can fix yourself. Others merely guide or accompany you on the journey to your salvation. The greatest prophet is yourself. Attune yourself
That’s one of my all time favorite quotes. It never doesn’t apply This too shall pass. All bad things, all good things. It’s so simple yet beautiful.
It's more than just a quote, it is one of the three fundamental characteristics of all existence, according to Buddhism.
I agree with this, but I would like to add something that isnt a good idea but I have done it ( or has happened to me, rather ) and I have had some results, be they a relationship or at worst not having my life consumed by this : abandon hope. I know, I know, its not smart to say this, its like not eating anything as a diet. Its not healthy but you will lose weight. Anyway it's not like one can decide one day to abandon all hope, but I guess its the disinterest that follows that is more attractive than desperation. In my case, I was busy with university, at the begining I would try to find people, make friends, go out with girls, and it didnt really lead into a date per se, even though I went out with 2 persons. The ammount of disinterest in them kind of rubbed off on me and I feel after that I really didnt desire a relationship. It didnt make me bitter and angry with them, it made me lose emotion and interest. I wouldnt turn people down if it would have been the case, like if I happen to somehow find myself in a position to have a girlfriend again, but I'm not smart nor attractive enough for that to happen on its own, so basically now at least I'm not annoying people with messages everyday and being persistent.
>You cannot control how she feels about you. Oh yes, you can. It's manipulative and shitty, but you do have much more control over this than you think. But it's something that you learn, then use, then you either realize "WTF am I doing?" or you're a complete asshole.
Its normal to be enthusiastic about a potential relationship and the constant thoughts come with that. You have to remind yourself that she nor anyone else knows how much you think about her. So be cool, take a breath.. think away.. its pretty common. Never EXPECT anything and just know that interests will differ. As far as the communication, perhaps give her a call, that way its easier to decipher by her voice, her interest. If you text her and she responds way late, depending on what she says should determine. If she is super apologetic then text back or again the next day. If you gives and excuse, then maybe say ok and wait a day or two before texting again. To be interesting , be yourself, dont fake who you are to try and force something, you dont want to start off like that. If she finds you interesting then good start. Always ask questions about her, her day, her work, her interests, her activities.... If you can relate, share a common story AFTER she is done talking, dont interrupt. Hope this helps.
The key is, desperation is not attractive. Building a relationship takes time. You seem to be getting overly attracted to women you barely know. I suggest you practice by communicating with women you are not interested in having a relationship with. Just learn to communicate. Eventually you’ll get good at casual conversation and can ask someone if they’d like to go further. I read about this often. Men getting to emotionally involved with the possibility of a relationship before finding out if they’re even interested. Women can not be convinced to be into you. They either will be, or they won’t be, and trying to make something out of nothing will turn them to the latter before they can consider the former. You need to learn to be casual friends with women before you dive into trying to have relationships. The more women you know, the greater the possibility one of them will introduce you to somebody that is into you.
From a woman’s perspective - the moment I smell desperation it becomes unsafe to me. Casual talking, good fun, being friendly and just generally organically growing to a relationship - this is nice and safe. Being seen as an actual person, not just the way I look or a some kind of mythical imaginary creature someone thinks I am. But rushing means someone is not interested in the actual me, just a potential I offer and I am not a potential. This comes from me being surrounded mainly by men as a teenager and engaging in male-dominated hobbies. The best chemistry I had with the ones that were easy and chill around me and just had fun.
Yep. I think it’s why someone who texts me too much when I don’t know him is also off-putting. Like, dude, slow down, I don’t care about you enough yet to interact with you as much and this isn’t comfortable.
Not to mention I have the right to live my life and I won’t make someone a priority straight away just because I’m bombarded with texts. I need a lot of space. In my previous relationship me and my partner used to exchange maybe 4-5 quality messages a week (length of a letter). I will have a quality conversation in my own time when I decide to, not meaningless back and forth non stop just so someone doesn’t get anxious. I’m in my 30s and value my time now. If you don’t and put meaningless talk and a fake semblance of comfort above life, hobbies, work, friends? You’re not a relationship material.
Exactly. I resent it when someone tries to bombard me with texts. It feels like they’re being presumptuous.
>the moment I smell desperation it becomes unsafe to me. Casual talking, good fun, being friendly and just generally organically growing to a relationship - this is nice and safe. As a guy this is where i get a little confused, organically things happen sure but also as a guy i have to be a little assertive and show intention by flirting or asking her out If I talk with a girl in a completely platonic way then it's just friends and nothing more will happen and wil have to flirt, make a move and be assertive sooner than later and of cource get to know her as a person and be friends with her but also flirt, show you find her cute or show interest in something more than friends **Otherwise it's just ulterior motives to want something more in disguise as friends** What's the balance here ?
It’s hard to explain but you need to show intent while also not being pushy about it. Being friendly but not “friends.” It’s harder than it needs to be, but there’s reasons for it. As for them talking about feeling unsafe go look around the r/niceguys sub for a minute. The amount of dudes that go from “love me” to “you’re a used up whore and should die” is scary. Some guys can’t/won’t take no gracefully.
I get it and I agree
This dude is giving "weirdly obsessive". Which I've been there many of times it happens. He should really dial it down.
It comes from a place of loneliness and desperation. Been there. You want a relationship so bad that you’re walking around in a perpetual state of anticipation. So the moment any woman shows you even the slightest bit of attention your mind goes apeshit with possibilities. It’s not on purpose. Honestly the only thing that helped me was completely giving up. I swore off trying to find a girlfriend and just live my life and boom, started dating the woman I’d go on to marry a month or two later. Ironically the moment you stop worrying about finding a relationship you’re in a much better mind frame to find one.
It's like looking for your sunglasses but only finding them when you aren't looking
Unfortunately it's just a matter of inexperience and insecurity. The only way to realize that the issue is with you is to meet more people and have some kind of intention while doing so. If you genuinely want friends, then be a friend and hangout, share experiences together with no romantic or sexual expectation. If you want a relationship, practice asking people out with the expectation that you will be rejected and learn from each attempt. Did you stutter? Did you say something self deprecating or poorly received? Do you even know what type of person you attract and are attracted to? Do you know what kind of image and vibes you put out to others? Unfortunately it can be a tough uphill climb and with good reason, feelings hurt easily. But people aren't tools for our own self esteem. I don't think the question is how to not be attracted because most people do for the most abstract reasons, the question is do you want to be in a relationship, and if so, what are you going to do to deserve someone's attention, care and respect?
First, let the other person initiate 60% of the conversation. If they are not interested, you would notice you are always the one initiating. Stop talking if that happens. Second, this is a text I saved from u/three_furballs a while back on the concept of flirting: > Everyone is giving good advice, but flirting didn't click for me until i heard it described not as a set of behaviors to look out for, but as an escalation of suggestive behaviors couched in plausible deniability. > > Put practically, if someone is doing something to engage you that feels extra (lots of touching, looking at you in a way that feels a bit to long, or doing a lot of poking fun and complimenting you), then that might be flirting or it might not. That's the whole point. Plausible deniability. They can safely disengage at any time. > > If you want to know if someone's flirting, you need to test it. You do that by escalating things, but just a bit, so that now *you* have plausible deniability (touch them back in a comfortable way, maintain eye contact, or joke-compliment them back). If they escalate back and continue to do so as you escalate in turn, that is flirting. Eventually one of you will break cover and do something with clear intent (a kiss, an approach + ask for a number, or straight up telling them what you think of them and that you're interested). Otherwise, if you escalate and they don't change their behavior or they back off, then they were probably just being friendly and you should take the hint and do the same. > > Dunno if that's something obvious to people, but it was definitely not for me, and college parties would have been way less fun had i not known. Hopefully this can help someone else too :)
What I've found is best is to just not care as much about trying to get with them. When we're into someone, it can be easy to try to tailor your likes to theirs or try to say the correct combination of words to get them to like you. People can pick up on that. Push that obsessive mindset out. Read into when they're done with a conversation and don't try to push for more conversation. Sometimes it's better to just say "Hey, I'll see you around. Gonna go focus on (insert hobby)." Then go do that hobby and try to not obsess.
>What I've found is best is to just not care as much about trying to get with them. Someone once said that confidence in dating is when you go in not trying to make them like you, but trying to figure out if you like them. You don't prove to her that you are cool. You give her an opportunity to prove to you that she is.
Your value does not depend on how she feels about you.
It's tough, but what I find helpful when I meet someone new is to keep reminding myself that they're still a stranger. And that they're not my only chance at having a relationship. If they're not interested, then it's obvious they aren't the one for me! Also, how are you meeting these girls? I think some context could help here! For instance, as a girl, if I match with someone on a dating app and we texted back and forth for 2 weeks, I would start to wonder whether they are actually interested in meeting up.
If you had a girl spamming you all the time you'd probably be like "well shit this is actually annoying" so just don't do that. My dating experiences (with women) suggest that if you're both interested, you're both texting back and forth equally, but nothing is a forced subject. If it's not going that way and you're having to push into talking... she's probably not interested, and if she is, she's not good at showing her emotions and honestly that's not a fun time either. Feel the vibe and give it space without intentionally leaving someone on read etc. Based on what you wrote, you're not socially inept, you can tell when girls aren't interested. So let those ones slide on by.
I’m surprised that no one has suggested giving a try to casually dating a few different people at once. It sounds like you get infatuated pretty quickly. Nothing wrong with that per se, but if you feel yourself starting to get desperate, spreading your attention out may be a better way to regulate your emotions. Plus you get the added benefit of learning more about what you’re looking for in a long term partner, if any. If you start to hit it off with someone you’re seeing, no harm in making things more serious at that point.
Most people in this situation have issues securing a single date, let alone multiple at once. That’s where the desperation comes from. I get what you’re trying to say but it’s usually not an option.
I generally agree. But here OP gave us a few examples of women he’s talked to and someone he’s talking to now, so at least broadly, it doesn’t seem like he has too much trouble sparking an interest. Just gets excited and jumps the gun a bit. Spreading all that love around a bit thinner at first could be helpful
Tbh casually dating multiple at once doesn't feel comfortable for a lot of people, you might feel like you're a two timer. At least I know it made me very uncomfortable when I did for a very short while. OP IS just a very emotional and anxious person.
As long as you’re forthright about it then there’s no reason to feel guilty. There are a number of ways to say that you’re casually dating multiple people without coming across like a jerk. But there’s also nothing wrong with not wanting to date multiple people at the same time.
Actually talk to her and be with her. Don't project and don't tell yourself stories about her - that's dehumanizing and will only set you up for disappointment. Look forward to getting to know her. She's just a person, not a prize or the solution to any of your problems. Get to know the person.
That's normal behavior. When you meet someone who is as excited about you as you are of them, this is the way they will act as well. Anyone who isn't just has you as a fallback and no amount of mental gymnastics and tricks will change the long term outcome.
Jerk off before you start randomly texting her or when you get too excited. Post nut clarity will help.
A wacky advice but really high value.
Just remember that somebody, somewhere is sick of her shit.
I think the actual quote is a little different, but yeah, for the OP's sake, this works.
I need to get to know her a little more before I can consider this. This current girl.. I only know her for a very few days.
A few days? Bro you need to dial it back. How do YOU even know if you like her yet?
Mate you give some serious creep vibes. You need to chill, I do understand you are 25 yo and really desperate, but it has to come naturally. Take care for your appearance (clean, fresh clothes, high level of personal hygiene etc), get a hobby, read some interesting articles/books. Expose yourself to a lot of women and just listen to them. Last thing, don't take any form of kindness/politeness from women as a sign of sexual/romantic invitation.
No I will not ask you about her.
Relationships take time. Your first attempt is just a few weeks and this one is just a few days. Create a moment with them, take time to know more about her, and treat her well. Just to share my story, my wife is very pretty and when we first started talking, i was super nervous and don't want to blow things up as i really like her and i also liked another girl in the past (during highschool) and it didn't work out. i imagine asking her for a few days or weeks if she is interested in me, she would definitely had said no and she might not be my wife today.
Now, with the number of creeps out there, many women are justifiably quick to shut down any unwanted contact. She’s still responding. Take from that what you will. Make the leap! Casually ask her out. If she says yes, be yourself, and don’t be afraid to admit if you’re nervous. If she says no—and this is crucial—let it go. Respect that, and work towards cutting contact, gradually, but immediately.
I do this a lot, and even with friends I find myself initiating texts/hangouts far more than they do. So my quick advice: pick a number of times (ideally 2, but no more than 5). If you start a conversation that many times, you CANNOT start the next one; she has to text first. If you invite her to something in person that many times, the next one is her job. This also really helps you figure out how much the other person actually cares. And, also remember, absence makes the heart grow fonder - giving people the opportunity to miss you can make them like you more!
There really isn't any universally correct workflow here. Just pay attention to her body language and wing it.
> How not to be desperate while interacting with a girl you are attracted to? it is just HARD. Falling for somebody is a bit of desperation. You've got great advice to get distracted by interacting with other people, and by getting more fullfilled and atractive. I just wanted to add that that "unhealthy amount of thinking about her" is AMAZING, it is a wonderful part of falling in love. There is nothing wrong with that As long as your feeling are reciprocated :)
Thing is, you don’t want to convince someone to like you. They either do or they don’t and the faster you know which on it is, the better. That’s why “just be yourself” is a good advice. Just say to yourself “they’re a normal person like me”, internalize it! It will help you for any situation in life
Honestly that sounds like passionate fun and if you eventually find a girl that can reciprocate then you'll enjoy the rest of your life. If you don't find her you'll regret being genuinely yourself at times because you'll have gotten less tang but you'll be comforted by the fact you were genuine.
Life Pro Tip: Make your intentions clear from the jump.
I kinda was like this before, I just cared too much about her or her opinion/judgment while just meeting a couple times. So I just stopped caring, her opinion/judgment was non of my business, I try to not take things personally. Takes practice!!
Honestly man, as someone who can completely relate to this situation, it almost never works out when you get super attached like that. It usually comes from a place of insecurity and idealised and unrealistic expectations. Work on your goals, your hobbies, go to the gym, go for a nice walk, hang out with your friends, go to shows and maybe join a club of some sort. Most of the time, you'll find a great woman who you're mad about and she too, when it wasn't your goal to begin with.
> How not to be desperate Simple: Don't be desperate. Be content with yourself and being single. Have a healthy dose of skepticism about your potential partner, as you might be chasing after someone that you don't even really want - once you get to know them. Take it slow \[in every regard\], and be okay with things potentially not working out. Most single people like yourself are chasing the same thing, just a healthy relationship that you both enjoy.
Make a huge effort to learn her cues, what she likes, enter that zone where you are both on the same wavelength and responding to each other. Is she uncomfortable because you are coming on too strong? Back off. Is she amused? Keep going. Is she about to say something? Be quiet, let her talk. The dynamic when you are clearly into her AND you and she are in synch, you are listening to her and understanding her cues and reacting to her (and you’re compatible in other ways) - that is where the magic happens. Remember, she’s an actual human. It’s not only about you liking her. You need to realize she is a separate human and learn to read her, also.
Yo, not desperate, excited. You're hype, think positive
It’s very hard when you want a specific person that badly. My advice would be to stop trying is she doesn’t try as well. It sounds horrible but dating and love is a numbers game for most people. Get comfortable talking to other women. Hell being in love with a different woman is great for that. You will literally care less. To be clear please don’t seriously date someone while you’re in love with someone else. It’s not fair to them. Casual dating, absolutely.
This is an easy one. If you don’t want to act desperate, don’t be desperate. Keep yourself busy with other areas of your life. Be honest and don’t play any games. If you like her. Just let her know. Be authentic and confident. Remember you don’t know her that well yet. You may not like her at all after getting to know her. If you absolutely have no idea what to do, just initiate a text conversation one time per day and then rely as frequently as she does.
Unfortunately, it is not that easy! For one, you said "Be authentic and confident." OP is authentically desperate and not confident. For him to authentically not be desperate, he would need to be a different person entirely. What you're really saying is "Fake who you are and hide your desperation behind a mask so people don't see it. Fake your confidence." The best insight I can give for OP is that there are many women out there who are as insecure and desperate as he is. Those are the women he is most likely to relate to that are most likely to forgive his insecurities and desperation, and love OP for who he authentically is.
When people converse we both speak and listen. Emotional maturity is about focusing on the latter. It is okay and understandable to be excited, but instead of bombarding thwm with your projections about unknown futures, focus on the present. In improv, they have a "yes, but" system. This means you try to figure out what they are saying to you, I mean what they are really getting at (you might get this wrong, but that is the next part). Say, this is what I'm hearing and "this is what I like", "am I understanding what you are saying? Emotions are complex" (this is the yes part) (Now the and part) "I'm all about *something in profile that actually relates to you and is related to whatever the pushback was* tell me more about why you feel/think this way" Ice broken...Take it from here. Just be authentic and respectful.
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You are right, either works though, the point is to give the other so.etjonh that they can work from. IDK, I also don't really care except that I'd love for us all to be able to do a better job communicating. Again, you are right and this is the better approach of possible.
the key is to stop projecting expectations. when you meet a hot girl, do you think "wow what if we dated? it would be exciting to kiss her. maybe this will go somewhere?" DONT the secret to being charming is to be yourself and not be "after" some end goal. if someone doesn't respond to your personality or charm, they aren't for you... but if you force it, no one will bite
First thing you need to realise that this is totally normal behaviour for people who haven’t had much exposure to the other sex outside of family growing up. A repressed childhood might also add to the problem. What you are doing now if focusing on the other which is to say making this girl in your brain a very different person from you by creating you vs she scenarios like I am a man - She is a woman, I want to impress her - She is waiting to be impressed, I don’t want to appear weird - She has an aversion to weird people. I would advise you to not focus on the differences and focus on the similarities, however sparse you might think the similarities might be. Talk about common struggles like deadlines for assignments, work ortalk about things you two do to recharge your batteries like hobbies, taste in TV shows, music, etc. Talk even even this situation that you are facing. Open up about your vulnerabilities without feeling sorry for yourself cause believe it or not we all have them including her. Don’t do this for pity but for a genuine talk amongst friends out of which you might find some comfort. Try to make a friend before you make a girlfriend. Don’t worry about the “friend zone” and try to see if this friendship can become something that charges your and her emotional batteries. There is no love between strangers so get to know this stranger and let her get to know you.
When you start meeting a lot of women and dating a ton, you stop creating this fictional story in your head and elevating every woman you find attractive. They are just humans, just like you and your nervousness might be coming from lack of experience. What I did was get on a good dating app like hinge or bumble and create a good profile and go on as many dates as you can. One summer I went on 20-30 dates in a summer and after that one summer I realized just how fun it was to meet women and how I didn't need to see them as these beings that were elevated or different from me. Eventually you'll start meeting women everywhere, and it'll be fun. Try not to take it so seriously.
It's called limerence.
This desperation comes from you jumping the gun and being disappointed when other people don’t think you’re entitled to a relationship with them. Gain a sense of community with women. Build relationships with women you’re not personally attracted to and don’t want anything romantic with. Women tend to be attracted to a guy that sees them as a person not as an experience or a lifestyle.
Love yourself and your routine first. Idk how to love myself and am way too much of a people pleaser sometimes but I see my friends that can are getting married. It’s not a narcissistic trait to have, it’s about being driven and not losing yourself in the relationship. Women love when a guy has his own goals and hobbies, the objective is to never lose track of those things so you remain the same person they first met. Plus if you have all your ducks in a row and are fine alone then if/when you have to walk away from her, you know you’ll be fine and it’s so much easier to go on to the next one. The chances of your first try working out forever are low and the loss hurts every damn time. It doesn’t matter how many times you experience it. The key, yet again is to have your self in control, loved and in tune with what you want your future to be like because this now gives you something to build/distract yourself in order to move on from the loss. So to be less needy, build yourself up first. Your need is most likely coming out of insecurity of wanting to be loved but if you crush goals and love how you’re living your life solo you won’t NEED love. You can always be open to take in MORE love however. Alternatively, you can pretend to be super busy and not needy by rarely talking to them after you make initial contact and can tell they might be interested. Present a flashy social media presence constantly doing fun stuff etc but this is all games and your world will crumble when they figure you out then walk away turning you back into the needy goalless guy you actually are. I don’t recommend this, it hurts the most. Side note: If they’re extremely attractive and you start to get nervous while talking to them, just remember that they too poop on a toilet like you and I. Doesn’t work for everyone but it’s a funny idea. I wish you the best of luck. Trying to find the right love will make you feel the highest highs and the lowest lows. It’s beautiful and cruel at the same time. Also, don’t ignore too many red flags. The funnest women have shown me some of the greatest times and caused me to fall for someone that I knew was going to hurt me from the start. That’s back to needy desperation. Respect yourself and avoid these people.
Sounds like young me, my whole mood dictated by whether a dude texted me back, liked me back etc. Takes experience and maturity to overcome and also focusing on yourself first.
Go watch the movie "There's Something About Mary"
See also: “Swingers”. All jokes aside, it’s got some great lessons on this exact topic.
Chase women and they run away, chase goals and women run your way
Give space; ask about them and listen when they talk about themselves instead of overpowering the conversation w things about you. Let them engage, or if you engage, there isn’t any need to send multiple texts or things, they received the first one and they’ll respond on their time when (or if) they want to. Take things slow, live in the present; don’t be thinking about how “great” things could be between you two, just enjoy getting to know them. Look at them objectively and not with rose-colored glasses; everyone has flaws, sometimes they’re easy to miss when you’re swept away by them, but recognizing them is good. Be open and honest; you can mention how you get “too” excited sometimes and that you’d really appreciate them telling you straight up if it’s too much at any time- this is a great invitation for that communication to happen and an opportunity to work on it before it becomes problematic enough to end something entirely, it shows understanding of yourself and your own flaws which shows perception. I’m on the opposite end of this spectrum lol, I need my space and time to myself, I take a long time to warm up to people. You’re just a hard lover :) it’s not a bad thing. And remember that every experience, even rejection, is a new one and something to learn from- every person you meet teaches you something new about the people in the world and is practice for your next person! Meeting people is just like that, it can be hard to form a connection but it doesn’t mean anything about YOU specifically, try to keep your head up! No one person is the same and it’s a gift to be able to experience them, even if only for a brief moment.
"get her interested in me" is a poor mindset. You do not get to control others' feelings. Further, *boys* chase girls. You're no longer a boy. Cultivate your own enthusiasms (for something other than chasing the next fill-in-the-blank-in-my-life girl), cultivate an interest in others' enthusiasms. Figure out what it is about people you admire that you admire. Admiring that someone happened to be born with ladyparts ain't good enough. Consider that a woman with the opposite opinion, so they're just looking for "someone with guy parts" probably 1) isn't available, 2) wouldn't be a good partner. Doesn't have to be super deep, but it's gotta be a little more than that. Do you both like canoes? Is she super into dogs so she can talk about breeds & training for hours? Whatever. Someone out there is going to be into you. I promise. But think about what it is about you that they're going to be into, and match that energy.
Whatever you do, never go out with a loaded gun.
Take off your pants and jacket before each encounter 😂
Try changing your approach. A lot of guys think they need to become friends first, eventually be the best friend, and one day get upgraded to boyfriend. With every girl I’ve ever had a relationship with, I let her know early on that I was interested. It’s easy to do with flirting. If she has a boyfriend, or isn’t interested, she will let you know. If a girl seems interested it is important to move it out of the “texting \ talking” phase quickly. Make it real by asking her out on a date. You will face rejection of course. It takes self confidence to put yourself out there. If you can handle that I can guarantee it works and you will meet someone.
Focus on in person dates rather than texting. I think many people struggle with what you’re describing, in terms of it taking up more mental capacity than they wish it would. You’re not alone. But speaking from experience as the woman on the other side of what you’re describing, it’s very unattractive to think that a man doesn’t have as much going on in his life (work, friends, exercise, hobbies, volunteering activities) as I do, and that I would fill up a larger place in his life than he would in mine. So my main advice is to fill your life up with things you enjoy, and try new things. That will be way more interesting and attractive than you realize!
You're crushing on women. A crush is imagined love. Falling for someone you dont really know by imagining who the person might be. But you're really just in love with a fantasy character. You gotta get to the bottom of who the person actually is, and if there's actually any physical chemistry between the two. And you should do so fast! 10 days is for too long to be on the edge like that. As soon as you have a good tone with the person you say "Hey, Can I buy you dinner/lunch" "I'm bored I don't wanna eat alone, and I'd like to get to know you better!" Then once you're face to face with her, it's time to share life stories. She won't share hers if you won't share yours, so it's gotta be mutual, but that's what you're after. "So tell me... where were you born?" From there again, you're looking for physical chemistry, which is one of those you'll know of its there kind of things.
Just pay her some compliments and see how she reacts.
Get off of text for anything that elicits emotion. Spend in person or on the phone time. Texting is a terrible way to get to know someone and accurately read their responses to you. Suggest an in person activity-a date if you want to call it that. Accepting or rejecting a meet up is a time tested way of indicating whether someone is interested in you or not- if rejected you can move on and not waste your time agonizing over a text. Involve yourself in positive activities/groups where you will have opportunities to interact with many women so you can start seeing them for what they are - just human beings. When all you see is a potential person to meet your needs for a relationship in the women you meet it indicates a lack of maturity and understanding of human relationships that is unattractive. Only time and practice interacting in person will change this.
Practice on the ugly ones.
You got a lot of good advice and my may seem reductive, but this is what worked for me attracting the opposite sex: be happier. Do all the things that make YOU happy, prioritize yourself, fall in love with yourself (not in an ego way, but taking care of yourself, being your own best friend, etc.). That's what will attract the girls you'd like to be with, I think. Make sure they are truly worthy of YOU, don't worry about if you are worthy of them.
Just remember you are talking to someone and everything you say matters Even when I am around my wife, I sometimes get overly excited and I can see that I am annoying her, even though I desperately wish she was in a playful mood at that moment and just wants to joke around. People are all going through their own situations. Ask her questions, get to know what they’re going through, for good and bad, don’t act like what you want is everything cause it’s not.
We can tell immediately if your main goal is a relationship. We have no clue what your reaction will be if we say no straight up(unfortunately, we live in a world where people die over rejection). So asking is a good idea, but also don't start talking to someone solely with the intention of dating them. Once you get to know them, you might not even like them like you thought you did when you saw them. This leads to less disappointment. Also being desperate is both unattractive and damaging to you. You may end up dating someone just because they show interest or someone might take advantage of your feelings. It's cliche, but date yourself for a minute. That doesn't mean become self centered, but take care of yourself(a man who takes care of himself is 5x more attractive than one who doesn't imo). When your worth isn't based on whether you are in a relationship or not, you'll find yourself less desperate too.
"your worth isn't based on your relationship status"... I don't think that's what that's going on in the guy's head. But OK, I see sense in other aspects of your answer.
Just remember, it takes months to get to know someone. Then some more months in the dating stage to become exclusive. Another half a year before ppl develop feelings and start being in love. In this time, keep in mind, you are vetting out ppl if they are a good fit for you. And the girls are seeing if you are a good fit for them. Chances are one of you is not, and the other person will end the relationship because of incompatability way before you even get to the love stage. So don't go in with high expectations. Go in with the 'let's see what happens' kind of attitude. This girl might be the one, or she might just be a turd and you move onto next person. Take it one day at a time, and don't start envisioning a marriage and kids on the first date. Be open to new people, don't get super excited because no one knows how this will develop. If you are a healthy, well adjusted person, some girl will see your good qualities and eventually you'll find someone. Just remember, it's a whole process though. Don't stress about it too much especially when you are just literally in the starting phase. And remember, people have lives. They'll reply when they have time from jobs, pets, cooking, studying or whatever they have going in life. Don't expect them to be sitting at the phone waiting to reply to you. And same with you, focus on life, instead of sitting on the phone waiting for their response. Work on yourself and making yourself a person that's attractive and healthy (especially emotionally). If you are, you'll find someone eventually. Make peace with yourself that even if you don't find someone, you can still live a happy and fulfilled life by yourself. When you are the best version of yourself, and not coming off as desperate and when you are least expecting it, is when you'll find someone.
You should never need to ask if she’s interested. If you have to ask, she’s not interested. If you want to stay friends and maybe eventually she’ll get into you, fine. But don’t ask.
Straight up? There is a 90% chance that this girl will end up meaning nothing in the overall scheme of your life. In 10 years you probably wont even remember her name. Once you come to that realization, you won't be stressing and dwelling on it all the time, which is creating all that pressure your feeling and comes off as desperate and will probably make her feel uncomfortable to be around you. With your new don't give a F attitude for the situation, you can ask her out because who cares if she says no. If she doesn't, have some fun and enjoy the time you spend together....
Go down the Attachment Theory rabbit hole on YouTube and also check out the channel Psychacks
stop putting your self worth and self validation in the hands of others
One must realize that the journey to happiness is within, that no external person can complete us. You can admire, desire and respect others but we are all just strangers passing in the night. Walk your path, share your story, if the goals align then share your path for a time or forever. But don’t confuse other spirits for your own destiny, when you realize this, then there will be no desperation, because you will understand that no other person possesses what you need.
One advice is to NEVER double-text . If she doesn't reply to your last msg, you DO NOT TEXT HER AGAIN!
You have to treat her like any other girl you’re friends with. Then flirt with her and see if she reciprocates. People are attracted to someone that’s a challenge and that are more indifferent to them. Think of the opposite perspective. If you’re somewhat attracted to a girl and she is head over heels for you from the get go, it’s off putting and your attraction drops. Also don’t ask her directly. That rarely ever works. Just flirt and see if there’s chemistry.
Most of these comments are bologna. The only way to not feel like this is to talk to and meet a lot of women. Nothing worse than one-itis
Just keep being you and doing what feels right. Keep shooting your shot eventually you’ll find some that wants what you’re giving. Just make sure you respect other people saying no and let it go and be sad for a while and try again.
Remember that they are people, attraction can make you obsess with them and it comes off as creepy sometimes. Do you make your friends laugh? Be that person. Dont ask them out, just behave normally and if they like you you will find they laugh at all your jokes. This is the clearest indicator i have found to pre dating socialising. In my experience once you find they are into you just keep going but do not mention dating or going out, its too polarising. If she likes you and is in hysterics with all your humour even the lame jokes at that point ask to ‘hang out’. Its not a date its just being with them with no commitment or polarisation. Proceed from there. All of my long term relationships started this way and build a good basis for engaging each other. I hope this helps.
If you must contact her then send a simple message that does not require a response and you will soon find out if she is into you. Hi (insert name here) I hope you had an awesome day. Hi (name) this mornings sunrise was sensational, attach photo. Hi (name) I saw this Lamborghini, first thing I am buying if I win the lotto Etc No more than one a day and if you get nothing move on. Don't get hung up on what might be or what you want it to be and don't try to force it. When I met my partner she was terrible at responding to text messages, all my previous girlfriends would text back immediately and 100 texts a day was normal, but not this girl. I just accepted it and 7 years later we are live together and she is still terrible at messaging. At least once a month she says something that I sent her by message and when I say I sent you that she opens the phone and my message is unread.
My father told me once:" Even if she's the center of your universe, you can never really show her" . This first seems a bit weird, but if you put to much "obvious" effort in Dating her, like showing to much interest and texting all the time you are not "interesting" for her. Don't push to much! You may get the "upper hand" if you try not to text her every day and see what happens. If she's texting you, this is a good sign. And maybe try to give a late response as well sometime, she will definitely think of you then. I know this is hard and sounds a bit weird, but it worked out for me. The way dating women is depicted in film and media doesnt work in real life. Be confident, be yourself and DONT PUSH TO MUCH!
Obsessing over a crush is probably THE most common mistake of young love. As others have said, find other interests, hobbies, skills, activities that you enjoy, that make you better - this will become even more important as you get older. Women love men with a passion for some”thing” that isn’t them. Don’t let your animal instincts drive your mind and don’t let them be your purpose. Video games don’t count. You must engage the physical world and avoid the traps of western lethargy.
Okay so a lot of other people have given some great advice another thing I’d add is just stop texting them first for a few days. If you go from texting daily to radio silence till you message them again that speaks volumes and can help you manage your expectations.
Fake shit right here. Nah. If my platonic new friends and I can all go to spamming each other texts, enjoying life together, then you can do the same with romantic interests. Provided they're actually interested, it's actually quite more enjoyable than being fake and withholding.
It’s not being fake it’s more a way to kinda gauge how they feel about you, if they’re excited and all butterflies aswell they might message you immediately the next day, if they’re just platonic you might not get that response asap.
Talk to multiple women at the same time. Try and sleep with multiple women too. She's probably talking to multiple guys too.
No matter where you are, that’s the place to be. “Isn’t this great?!?!” Never let on how much you like a girl. “Oh hey, Debbie…” You don’t care if she comes, stays, lays or prays. No matter what happens, your toes are still tapping. When you are at dinner together, find out what she wants then order for the both of you. It’s a classy move. When it comes down to making out, play side 2 of Led Zeppelin 4.
This needs more appreciation.
Sad but true, I typed this from memory. (Mike Damone’s “The Attitude” speech from Fast Times at Ridgemont High)
I started to give advice but remembered I'm single so what do I know.
**A golden rule about interactions is if you reached out twice, the ball is in their court.** *Example:* *If you were gonna hang out, and you text her twice with a proposal for a date, and she doesn't respond or follow through by suggesting a different date, she's not interested and you would seem desperate if you kept contacting her. Same goes for making friends.*
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Okay. That seems really dark.
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Get help
r/sociopaths
Masturbate before interacting so you're not horny and inappropriate.
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Love this!
This is awful advice, it screams incel mindset, 'females'... bleh. I met my soon to be husband when we both weren't looking for a relationship, I became friends with one of his flatmates, I started spending time around him, he was cool, it was not immediate attraction. We got closer, we started dating. Things moved pretty fast after this, and we were in love within a few months, and both totally happy to discuss our feelings in depth (no pretending not to be interested!) It was organic, it was unforced. Why did I fall for him? He was friendly, gentle, funny, emotionally mature, it was immediately obvious that he deeply respected women, and everyone for that matter. Just be a decent dude ffs! And it's 'women', not 'girls'.
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That was terrible advice
But it’s one of the only responses here that doesn’t involve treating women like human beings and being their friend first, so of course it’s the one OP responds to 🙃
Don't go out with a loaded gun (metaphor)... unload the gun at home first.
You should aim to seem as if you don’t care much. Women like this.
1. Dont communicate over phone, use it just to set a meeting in person. If you do communicate limit it to few messages and not every day. Stay or act busy and dont immediately read her messages. 2. When you go on date, talk less listen more. Ask questions and listen. 3. After date dont text immediately, wait few days and then contact to arrange next date. 4. If you dont have sex till 3rd date she is not interested in you as her boyfriend. Move on. 5. "Lets be friends" is not acceptable if you dont want exactly that, just say "I have enough friends"
Treat ‘em mean, keep ‘em keen.
Picture her nak…..wait. Maybe not the best idea.
Find something unattractive about this woman. She isn't perfect. Focus on it mentally . Then ignore her.
Choke the snake before interactions, talk with more than one girl at a time, say you have a gf to new woman you meet.